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Topic: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: timz
Posted 2013-01-04 11:14:51 and read 13542 times.

Many US airports from the 1950s, and a few foreign; also some later ones. Here's 1959 Vancouver, for example

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...8144286092/sizes/h/in/photostream/

Try searching for different names-- he's got Whenuapai 1956 but you have to search for Auckland. Other odds and ends, like Athens 1996

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...8219701563/sizes/h/in/photostream/

and Munich 1991

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...8220532156/sizes/h/in/photostream/

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-01-04 11:25:10 and read 13452 times.

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
Here's 1959 Vancouver, for example

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...ream/

Interesting, especially when comparing the location with today's situation, including the remnants of that era.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: timz
Posted 2013-01-04 11:56:30 and read 13323 times.

Turns out the guy has YVR 1955 too

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...8034906534/sizes/l/in/photostream/

To get the LAX charts you have to search for LAX, not Los Angeles, but usually he uses names rather than codes. Best plan is to browse the whole bunch.

[Edited 2013-01-04 11:59:15]

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: kordcj
Posted 2013-01-04 12:14:06 and read 13236 times.

Wow how the charts have changed. Here's 1959 O'Hare

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...8096545871/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Crazy to think that when OMP is done, only 2 of the original runways will remain.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: BD338
Posted 2013-01-04 13:11:30 and read 13005 times.

...and some great 1950's/60's postcard/photo's of a few airports. Lots of change!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12530375@N08/page47/

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-04 13:51:12 and read 12860 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
Quoting timz (Thread starter):
Here's 1959 Vancouver, for example

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1253037...ream/

Interesting, especially when comparing the location with today's situation, including the remnants of that era.

It's interesting that runway 08-26 still has those numbers today (although it's now 08R-26L and is longer) , but the 1959 runway 11-29 became 12-30 (also extended) at some point. Runways are of course often renumbered due to the change in magnetic variation but I would have thought it would affect all runways. Wonder why 08-26 didn't change?

The old terminal on the south side of YVR was a poor excuse for a terminal for a major city until the first phase of the current terminal opened on the north side in 1968. The old terminal was actually 2 buildings. The old original terminal from the 1930s (after a few expansions) faced north and was used by CP and Pacific Western. A newer shed-like structure which was built around 1957 faced west around the corner and served AC, UA and Western (Western didn't serve YVR until 1967) I forget which terminal QF used for their once-a-week tag-on from SFO. I think those were all the scheduled carriers serving YVR then apart from one or two small local operators.

The South Terminal area is still used today by a couple of local carriers, e.g. Pacific Coastal Airlines.

The photo that pans from 6:32 to 6:40 in the following montage (produced by YVR airport on the airport's 80th anniversary in 2011) shows the pre-1968 terminal facilities. The photo includes one of every type in the AC fleet then (Viscount, Vanguard, DC-8), a UA 720, 3 CP DC-8s, and a Pacific Western DC-7C (ex-KLM) which they operated briefly on longhaul charters. Photo probably dates from the 1965-67 period. It's not before 1965 as TCA didn't change its name to AC until January 1965. It should open at the start of that photo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...etailpage&v=JLKXw9igpa8#t=392s

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: timz
Posted 2013-01-04 14:51:21 and read 12696 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Wonder why 08-26 didn't change?

Anybody have lat-lons for the runway ends so we can calculate their actual directions? Maybe the difference is 25 degrees or some such, instead of 30 deg.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-01-04 15:02:01 and read 12660 times.

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
Anybody have lat-lons for the runway ends so we can calculate their actual directions? Maybe the difference is 25 degrees or some such, instead of 30 deg.

Can this help ?

http://www.gcmap.com/diagrams/pdf/CYVR.pdf

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-01-04 15:07:18 and read 12621 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
It's interesting that runway 08-26 still has those numbers today

On the 1959 diagram, the headings show 254° and 074°, while on the one from 2007 they are 261° and 081°.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-04 15:10:34 and read 12598 times.

Departedflights.org also has many old diagrams, sorted by airport. You can often find multiple diagrams from many different years.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: timz
Posted 2013-01-04 15:24:42 and read 12511 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 9):
Departedflights.org also has many old diagrams

They have airport diagrams along with the terminal maps?

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-04 15:32:51 and read 12473 times.

I think I saw a few full diagrams on departedflights, but I can't find them. They might be gone, or I might be mistaken.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: Q
Posted 2013-01-04 16:16:22 and read 12357 times.

Thanks for the link old chart airports. It's very interesting from the past start to growing today huge changed.

Q

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2013-01-04 17:22:29 and read 12176 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
change in magnetic variation but I would have thought it would affect all runways. Wonder why 08-26 didn't change?

Don't know why, but I don't think the main runways at MSY 10/28 and 1/19 have ever been renumbered since they were first built in the 40's, looking above it does show current 6/24 being 5/23 in 1962.

In 1962, 10/28 were 99 and 279 degrees, today they are 105 and 285 degrees.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-01-04 18:15:59 and read 12042 times.

Thanks for sharing! Does this site have BWI and MIA from back in the day? Are airline gates and ticketing areas listed?

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2013-01-04 18:18:32 and read 12023 times.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 14):
MIA from back in the day?

MIA is in there, click on his name and will show all 53 pages.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: N243NW
Posted 2013-01-04 21:34:38 and read 11021 times.

Thanks for the link. My favorite part was seeing the old Amon Carter Airport and Greater Southwest Regional Airport, the precursor to the modern-day DFW. The remnants of the north end of 18/36 is still visible near AMR headquarters.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-04 23:33:42 and read 10350 times.

Looking at his MKC approach charts I see there used to be a MKC VOR. The VOR looks like it is still there on Google Earth but it is not on the current charts. I wonder how long ago that was decomissioned. It appears to be located near DUSTN intersection on the ILS runway 27 approach to MCI. I suppose it could have been part of that approach at one time but I wouldn't be surprised though if it was decomissioned in '72 when the airlines moved from MKC to MCI. Wonder if the Feds still own the land or worse maybe leasing it from the farm that surrounds it. It appears to be located along the NW 102nd Street alignment just west of US 169.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: denverdanny
Posted 2013-01-05 15:35:53 and read 5546 times.

These are interesting thanks. I like the aircraft model breakdowns. You can see in some of the charts, at least the Denver ones I looked at, how much smaller and compact the cities are still. Not the sprawl, suburbanization and spreading out of the cities yet. I live in Stapleton now, so interesting to look at the size of the airport back then too--think about it on walks.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: timz
Posted 2013-01-05 16:03:17 and read 5494 times.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 17):
there used to be a MKC VOR.

The 3/97 high-alt chart shows MKC at 39 deg 16.76 min N 94 deg 35.48 min W; on the June 2000 chart it's gone.

(Google Maps shows a VOR-looking bldg at that lat-lon, but the (current?) Skyvector.com sectional doesn't seem to show anything there.)

[Edited 2013-01-05 16:10:29]

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: drexotica
Posted 2013-01-05 17:22:34 and read 5347 times.

I find it quite irritating that you cannot download the images - the dude (jwhshd) merely scanned and uploaded old Jeppesen charts. You can find these in good engineering libraries.

Jeez - the images even have the Jeppesen copyrights on them ...

Ownership - really?

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-06 01:15:34 and read 5104 times.

Quoting timz (Reply 19):
The 3/97 high-alt chart shows MKC at 39 deg 16.76 min N 94 deg 35.48 min W; on the June 2000 chart it's gone.

Yup that's where I was looking, almost dead on for DUSTN intersection now or where NW 102nd Street would be west of US 169. I didn't ever remember seeing it on the VFR or low charts growing up there. My father was a private pilot and very rarely did I ever see a high chart. I didn't have my license when I lived there so I might have overlooked it. Good to know it's only been deactivated 10-15 years then instead of 40. It didn't look like something that had been neglected for 40 years from the aerial/sat pic. Unfortunately I could easily believe someone left the darn thing all this time. Hope not  

I think it has been 20 years since Lake Havasu, AZ relocated their airport (HII) and it took almost that long for an observant pilot to note the Class E airspace was never changed on the VFR chart. I flew in and out of there and never thought anything was wrong then either. At least they had the new airport in the right place on the chart.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2013-01-06 06:02:44 and read 4905 times.

Many VORs that had the same name as the nearby airport but were not located on the airport were shut down over the years to avoid confusion I would guess. We used to have a New Orleans VOR in Lake Pontchartrain close to the Metairie shoreline and visible from the Causeway Bridge, but it is long gone now and has been for many years.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-01-06 08:21:04 and read 4742 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 8):
On the 1959 diagram, the headings show 254° and 074°, while on the one from 2007 they are 261° and 081°.

That's right, so it still fell within the nomenclature of the day.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Wonder why 08-26 didn't change?

"Back in the Day", as magnetic headings changed, when the heading "clicks over" to the next runway name nomenclature, the runway would have been renamed. It is not uncommon for only one runway on a field to reach that "click over point" at a time and be renamed.

However, today, runways no longer follow that nomenclature where multiple parallel runways exist. So for example, at YYZ, 23, 24R and 24L are all 237 degrees. Or LAX, 24R, 24L, 25R, 25L are all 249 degrees.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-01-06 08:27:07 and read 4724 times.

Quoting drexotica (Reply 20):
I find it quite irritating that you cannot download the images - the dude (jwhshd) merely scanned and uploaded old Jeppesen charts.

If you click on the download link on each chart, you can download it, and save it as a jpg file.

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-01-07 04:50:01 and read 4269 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 23):
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 8):On the 1959 diagram, the headings show 254° and 074°, while on the one from 2007 they are 261° and 081°.
That's right, so it still fell within the nomenclature of the day.

Still, I wonder why it wasn't 25-07 back in 1959 and at what point would the runway numbers be changed ?

Topic: RE: Old Airport Diagrams Online!
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-01-07 07:21:23 and read 4134 times.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 25):

Still, I wonder why it wasn't 25-07 back in 1959 and at what point would the runway numbers be changed ?

This is an interesting question.

Looking at today's documentation, I can find no reference other than "rounding to the closest 2 digit number". This is looking at a current Aeronautical Information Manual, TC online information, as well as our own Flight Operations Manual. One would infer then that 254 would be runway 25 and 255 would be runway 26. And I therefore understand your curiosity.

However, I remember back to my old Private Pilot days, (not as far back as 1959, more like around 1980) and I vaguely recall that the cutoff wasn't at the 5 degree mark. It was something like 254-263 would be 26, and 264-273 would be 27, etc. But ... try as I might, I can not find any documentation to confirm that. Somewhere in the basement is my old "From the Ground Up", its probably in there!


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