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Topic: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-02 13:28:15 and read 23988 times.

Skymark Airlines today applied with the DOT for authority to offer scheduled service between between Japan and New York.

Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

Skymarks advises it request this relative early authorization for it to commence advance marketing and sales activities to position itself for the introduction of the planned low-cost service.

Additionally Skymark also states it is reviewing the opportunity for introduction of other US scheduled markets using its on order fleet of A330 and A380 aircraft and would apply for those separately.


Proposed schedule:

NRT-JFK 1030-1000
JFK-NRT 1200-1430+1


OST-2010-0096

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-01-02 13:33:49 and read 23962 times.

Interesting, I still never understood why Skymark ordered the a380. They seem like too small of an airline to warrant such a big plane. But, I guess if you tap into the right market, which JFK-TYO is probably a big-enough market for them, they can make some money.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-01-02 13:40:11 and read 23843 times.

Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-01-02 13:46:29 and read 23733 times.

I'm sure there is demand if they price it appropriately.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: keuleatr72
Posted 2013-01-02 13:55:01 and read 23635 times.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
ure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: VCy
Posted 2013-01-02 13:56:44 and read 23596 times.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?

nope, 394 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...ernational-expansion-update1-.html

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-02 14:04:23 and read 23468 times.

Actually they have not decided on the capacity configuration -

Their application specifically states --
"The final seating configuration of each A380 in Skymark's fleet has not been determined. Skymark anticipates making a decision on the configuration by mid 2013."

If they are indeed pursuing a lower cost model for these flights, I would think they would have a relative dense configuration.


Also regarding the market - NYC-TYO has about 500,000 local annual O&D travelers.
Yes its a declining market (like much of US-Japan), but for the right price I am sure they should be able to stimulate demand.
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: jbmitt
Posted 2013-01-02 14:15:35 and read 23347 times.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

I doubt Air Austral will ever take the a380. They couldn't take their last 772LR that went to Iraq instead.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: g500
Posted 2013-01-02 14:37:47 and read 23174 times.

So basically they're going with NRT-JFK instead of NRT-LAX because Tokyo-L.A is saturated, but is not like NRT-JFK is under served either

well good luck to them

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-02 14:54:31 and read 22989 times.

So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

I would think if they are indeed following a more LCC concept that HNL could be natural fit, using an A380 even.

Also something to West Coast either using the 330 or 380 would be a natural market from Japan.

Considering lack of tie-ins with other carriers or domestic feed at NRT, Skymark would need to focus and tap in to existing large markets for its long-haul aspirations.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-01-02 14:59:08 and read 22946 times.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

OK. Thanks.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: travelin man
Posted 2013-01-02 15:06:28 and read 22897 times.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats. I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

As LAXIntl said, if Skymark is going for the mass market budget traveler, they're going to have to configure the plane with way more than 400 seats. If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-01-02 15:19:16 and read 22808 times.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
IIRC, Skymark will operate the A380 with around 400 seats.

Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-01-02 16:09:04 and read 22512 times.

Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

Thank you and good night.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-02 16:12:26 and read 22470 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

KOA-TYO?

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: spinkid
Posted 2013-01-02 16:17:22 and read 22425 times.

They will have to offer pretty low fares to make this work. You get an awful lot of FF miles for a JFK-NRT routing, even for someone like myself who isn't fully married to my FF program.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: malaysia
Posted 2013-01-02 16:20:05 and read 22378 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air

lol! took me a second to notice :P I remember flying Tower Air and its 747 operation

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: MEL
Posted 2013-01-02 16:49:04 and read 21955 times.

I think the whole idea of Skymark operating A380s is extremely bizarre, especially if the A380 ends up having a large-sized premium cabin (more than 50 seats). I expect premium pax in Japan would have strong loyalty towards JL+NH, and 99% of premium pax (or all pax for that matter) in the US haven't even heard of Skymark.

Didn't the company even decide to shut down its Osaka Kansai operation? They can't even make a market the size of Osaka work?

Hawaii-Tokyo is probably the only market I think might work for Skymark, with A330-300 aircraft in an "Air Asia X-type" configuration.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-02 17:07:05 and read 21671 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
With a cheap enough price NYC can be a wonderful shopping, or weekend trip for the Japanese, especially the younger crowd which would be more open to a LCC concept.

One of the largest travel agencies in Japan, H.I.S, has a ~30% stake in Skymark, so that is probably the only leg standing under the table of their business plan. But Japanese consumers are increasingly moving away from consolidators in recent years, so this doesn't seem like a sure bet at all.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Thank you and good night.

Basically, yes. The Japanese business press basically thinks Nishikubo-san, Skymark's founder and leader, is out of his friggin mind.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-02 17:25:49 and read 21430 times.

This has train wreck written all over it. Business travelers are going to stick with NH, JL, UA DL etc who can offer them an expanded network and perks. That leaves the low yield budget traveler. I wish them luck - they are going to need every bit of it.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: FlyboyOz
Posted 2013-01-02 17:32:23 and read 21304 times.

Would that be interested in to know how much the airfare is!!

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 17:35:20 and read 21277 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Skymark states is desires to introduce service between Tokyo Narita and New York JFK utilizing A380 aircraft during the second half of 2014.

   buddy of mine is currently training to be an A380 pilot and he said that he should be taking the 380 to JFK for "proving routes" once they get it delivered. It should be the first routes utilized by Skymark's A380s.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 2):
Isn't Skymark planning to configure the A380 pretty much to the maximum capacity, i.e. 800+ seats? Can there be that much LCC demand for TYO-NYC?
Quoting VCy (Reply 5):
nope, 394

They may be a LCC but they are marketing this as the most luxurious route to the US. I'm not sure how well this is going to do, but the Japanese business community seems enthused about it. I hope the price is right; I'm currently doing research right now on how much this is going to be. Obviously Skymark is not allowed marketing a price until the DOT gives them permission.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: irshava
Posted 2013-01-02 17:37:42 and read 21235 times.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
I think you mean Air Austral. They have chosen to equip their birds with 800 seats.

They have also chosen to cancel those orders.  

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-01-02 17:41:52 and read 21153 times.

My money is on Skymark going belly up... Either JL or NH will pick up the slack & probably keep the A380s and sell off the A330s considering neither operator has the type in their fleet...

EK413

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-01-02 18:14:02 and read 20672 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):

I thought it was going to be an all Y+ product when they first announced it? Either way its the lowest density A380 planned yet.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 18:21:37 and read 21797 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 24):
I thought it was going to be an all Y+ product when they first announced it? Either way its the lowest density A380 planned yet.
Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):
My money is on Skymark going belly up
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 19):
This has train wreck written all over it.
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

You guys forget that Skymark is probably the most popular LCC in Japan. A lot of people are complaining that NH and JL are wayyyyyyyy too expensive, and with Skymark's codesharing with DL, this has a LOT of potential if it is played properly.

Plus, knowing how Japan markets things, they will market this service as the "First Japanese A380" or something (even though IIRC SQ, MH, and KE all have operated the 380 to the US in the past from NRT)

A rumor I heard was that Skymark was going to begin a flight to ATL or DTW in order to expand its relationship with DL.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
One of the largest travel agencies in Japan, H.I.S, has a ~30% stake in Skymark, so that is probably the only leg standing under the table of their business plan.

HIS is a growing travel company too so Im pretty sure this is going to only influence Skymark more.


Just for reference, Skymark's IATA code is BC.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-02 18:44:45 and read 21314 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):

We're not forgetting anything , an LCC flying an A380 with sub 450 seats is suicide. By your logic that popularity equals profits , Virgin America should be making money hand over fist.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-01-02 18:54:24 and read 21491 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
Interesting, I still never understood why Skymark ordered the a380.

Their biggest investor is a Japanese travel company. They intende to offer long haul low cost service. If they do it as part of packaged tours and less as a standalone airline, it coudl work.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
If they are indeed pursuing a lower cost model for these flights, I would think they would have a relative dense configuration.

   If they try to go premium they'll be dead on arrival.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
So with 10 A330s and 6 A380s on the way, what are the other markets do we think Skymark is looking at in the US?

I'd say JFK, MCO, HNL at least. Maybe LAX.
Maybe a triangle route NRT-MCO-JFK-NRT, would work, but they need a lot more than 400 seats.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-02 19:14:18 and read 21117 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Maybe a triangle route NRT-MCO-JFK-NRT, would work, but they need a lot more than 400 seats.

If you are going to do something like that might as well make MCO a tag on from JFK (so in other words NRT-JFK-MCO-JFK-NRT), not a triangle route. Your proposed routing is only attractive to people going to/from MCO.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-02 19:49:27 and read 20710 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
HIS is a growing travel company too



They were only growing the last couple of years because of the strong yen. Now it's heading north again. Travel agencies as a whole have been struggling the last 5 years as Rakuten and Yahoo.jp have beefed up their package and reservations offerings.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
A lot of people are complaining that NH and JL are wayyyyyyyy too expensive

You mean 20-somethings with small incomes. The other thing working against players like Skymark is all of the major banks and card networks like AEON, JCB, and Edy have programs tied into JAL and ANA mileage points.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 20:00:55 and read 20582 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 29):
You mean 20-somethings with small incomes. The other thing working against players like Skymark is all of the major banks and card networks like AEON, JCB, and Edy have programs tied into JAL and ANA mileage points.

Well my contacts are a variety of people, not just college students. A buddy of mine works for a trading company in Nagoya and told me every time he comes to Los Angeles he flies with SQ because it's the cheapest option with the best quality service.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-02 20:06:12 and read 20461 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.

I would think awareness in the US is not really a factor. They're a Japanese airline and their primary market will be Japanese travelers in both directions. Even on ANA and JAL, which you'd probably say have much higher brand awareness here, whenever I fly the only Americans on board are confused code sharers trying to figure out the meal options... and me.

New York has a huge Japanese population and most of them are young and poor. They scrimped and saved and came here because they feel stifled in Japan, but a lot of them end up going back permanently out of disillusionment and the ones who don't still want to visit their friends and family more often than they can flying on full-service fares. That's going to be the market for an LCC. Whether there's enough there to fill an A380 on an ongoing basis, I dunno. I didn't see the frequency this was planned to be offered, which makes a difference.

Also, the tie-in with HIS is going to help too. Every Japanese person I know (which is probably around 100 people total) has used HIS at one time or another. They're not the only travel agency out there but they are big in Japan, and among Japanese in New York (where HIS also has an office).

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 20:14:13 and read 20434 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
Also, the tie-in with HIS is going to help too. Every Japanese person I know (which is probably around 100 people total) has used HIS at one time or another. They're not the only travel agency out there but they are big in Japan, and among Japanese in New York (where HIS also has an office).

This is the zinger for my friends here in the US: HIS is what nearly ALL of my Japanese friends have used to get back and forth between Japan and the US.

Just some notes here, I just asked a total of 200 of my Japanese contacts on Facebook what they think of this new service, and I am waiting for responses. Obviously this is an unofficial poll but as I previously stated my contacts are varied and diverse in Japan.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Superfly
Posted 2013-01-02 20:25:22 and read 20273 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 19):
That leaves the low yield budget traveler.


Wouldn't SFO and LAX be a better market for budget travellers to & from Japan?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air.


Tower Air used old planes. Although I never flew them, all the complaints I heard about Tower Air was the age of their aircraft. Brand new A380s shouldn't have any issues.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-02 20:28:35 and read 20237 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

I would lower the bar to 450 as the minimum, but I agree that Skymark must go dense or go home.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

Thank you and good night.

The only similarity is that Skymark also has VLAs. Skymark also has some 'mind share' in Japan and the tie up with HIS is something Tower didn't have. The current Japanese economy won't help... But if they do offer a true LCC price/configuration, I know quite a few who will use them.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
If they try to go premium they'll be dead on arrival.

Some premium would work. The original high premium is a non-starter and was only for PR.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 20:39:39 and read 20150 times.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Wouldn't SFO and LAX be a better market for budget travellers to & from Japan?

Skymark is intending on sending the 380 to LAX and the 330 to SFO.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-02 21:03:58 and read 19931 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):

You here lots of rumors apparently , I'm still waiting for your last one to come true of DL buying TN  

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 21:09:59 and read 19864 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 36):
I'm still waiting for your last one to come true of DL buying TN

   I was never expecting that to actually happen. As I stated countless times in that thread, I thought it was so crazy that I had to share it.
Either way, it makes sense. If BC makes it big, let's say it does, and they join an alliance, Skyteam is the best bet IMO.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-02 21:32:32 and read 19599 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 31):
Even on ANA and JAL, which you'd probably say have much higher brand awareness here, whenever I fly the only Americans on board are confused code sharers trying to figure out the meal options... and me.

LOL - my relatives from CA would be among those always confused about the meals. I always bring them over on NH.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 30):
A buddy of mine works for a trading company in Nagoya

Right, so if his company does OK and he's in his early 30s or younger, he's still making around $65K or less. That was my point.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Skymark also has some 'mind share' in Japan and the tie up with HIS is something Tower didn't have.

The H.I.S. website is currently quoting prices in the 75,000 yen range for a weekday roundtrip to NYC from the Tokyo area in a quiet travel period in March - and that's the cheapest for DL/UA. Considering 30,000 yen of that goes to agent fees, taxes, and the fuel surcharge, that leaves a base fare of around 45,000 yen - or around $550. If Skymark undercuts by 10-15% it's going to be tough to get the numbers to work pretty quick.

[Edited 2013-01-02 21:33:09]

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 21:46:55 and read 19435 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 38):
Right, so if his company does OK and he's in his early 30s or younger, he's still making around $65K or less. That was my point.

Which sortof brings my point too. Most of my Japanese friends have responded with a "yes" to if they would fly Skymark if their service was good.

One person told me though that she was concerned that if it's a LCC, then some of the luxuries of a mainliner may be sacrifice. One worried the plane would be overcramped....her reaction when I told her it was a 380 with around 380 seats was priceless.... it does bring up your other point... she said "how are they going to make money on that?"

But think about it...it's a lighter-weight A380, less fuel charges.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: ikramerica
Posted 2013-01-02 21:56:18 and read 19380 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):

Tower Air was started in conjunction with an American based Isreal tour operation and didn't have new planes, they certainly weren't ancient in 1983 either. They just got old over time. Their model was based on tours and charters on vla to very specific markets to give an alternative to existing established carriers.

How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 22:03:29 and read 19318 times.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 40):
How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.

Not so fast here: Sure BC is associated with H.I.S., but H.I.S. is a very diverse group too. They're not a tour guide group entirely.
even though they shut off ops at KIX and focused at ITM, they are still a lot of times used by biz travelers to get from TYO to Kansai quickly. The Shinkansen may be fast, but it still isn't as quick as a quick hop from HND to ITM.

Other popular applications of BC are flying domestic at a very cheap flight, or the quick flight up to TYO for a business meeting, or school trips going to CTS, Akita, etc etc.

They're quite diverse IMO.

Here's some links on BC:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/skymark.htm

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...-Tokyo_Tokyo_Prefecture_Kanto.html

Pretty good reviews, if you ask me.

http://www.skymark.co.jp/en/
Here's their website if you guys don't quite know.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2013-01-03 01:05:35 and read 17751 times.

If Skymarks plan doesn't work, looks like we may have the first used A380s pop up on the market pretty soon...

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: bthebest
Posted 2013-01-03 02:43:00 and read 16732 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.

If they did something like 94 Business (top deck, a la KE) and 427 (main deck, a la EK) I think they could make it work. Splitting the decks completely you could have a really good Business product whilst keeping the costs a little lower than competitors. With no competition from other Japanese airlines for the A380 specifically, they just need to undercut SQ to get a decent market share.

Edit: SQ point only relevant if they operate to LAX. Yes, AA and DL operate route as well but they fall in line with JL and NH in not operating the A380 either.

[Edited 2013-01-03 02:49:10]

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-01-03 03:52:16 and read 16075 times.

On one hand, it is difficult to argue with those, who believe Skymark launching their service to New York with A380 is too much.

On the other hand - remember how Virgin Atlantic came to existance. One plane (747), one route (LHR-JFK). The rest is history.

I am positive certain haters in this thread would praise the airline for this announcement, had Skymark ordered 747-8i or 777-300ERs instead...

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-01-03 05:12:47 and read 15203 times.

I thought Skymark wanted to use the aircraft on routes to Europe too, more specifically London.

Considering no other long haul airline can really make it work at LGW apart from VS and BA (the latter being questionable), I imagine they will hold out for LHR slots before sending the A380 there.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-01-03 05:37:14 and read 14915 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 28):
If you are going to do something like that might as well make MCO a tag on from JFK (so in other words NRT-JFK-MCO-JFK-NRT), not a triangle route. Your proposed routing is only attractive to people going to/from MCO.

Well, the point is that visiting multiple cities is a common characteristic of Japanese tourists and skymark can't sell tickets between 2 US cities, so a triangle route is more favorale than a tag. I suggested a trianlge route to MCO and JFK on top of a dedicated service to JFK, not instead of it. In my example, MCO would be the primary destination.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: gdg9
Posted 2013-01-03 05:42:26 and read 14920 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 3):
m sure there is demand if they price it appropriately.

In 2010 I snagged a $456 r/t with taxes EWR--DTW-NRT fare. Hadn't thought about going to Tokyo but the fare was so cheap how could I not? Wednesday travel to and from on the 747.

If the fares are cheap, I suspect you'll find some leisure travelers.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-03 06:30:26 and read 14303 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 38):
If Skymark undercuts by 10-15% it's going to be tough to get the numbers to work pretty quick.

What are the fares peak season?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 40):
How you can say Skymark has nothing in common is weird. They have a lot more in common than they do with a lot of other carriers. And let's see how their A380s look after 10-20 years, if they last that long.

First, I didn't say they had nothing in common. I just do not see the level of commonality you wish to imply.

Does Skymark have an executive in charge of operations with zero airline experience a la Tower? IMHO putting incompetent relatives in key positions at Tower is part of what doomed them. Not the 747. The nepotism at Tower is why that name will never be revived in aviation.

But the 747 has the same CASM as the 763ER while the A388 has about 14% lower CASM than the 77W. Big with no CASM benefit is done. And most of Skymark's flights will be on smaller metal. That is a huge difference with Tower.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-03 07:15:20 and read 13732 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 44):
On the other hand - remember how Virgin Atlantic came to existance. One plane (747), one route (LHR-JFK). The rest is history.

It wasn't even that good. The route was LGW-EWR, and with very low prices. Standby as low as £99. But VS entered a growing market, while from all accounts the U.S. - Japan market has been in decline for the past decade without signs of turning around any time soon.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-03 07:20:23 and read 13641 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
What are the fares peak season?

to North America and Europe, the travel agencies usually offer a limited number of fares in the $850 - $1100 range at peak times, with JL and NH usually $200 north of those figures at a minimum. Beach markets like Hawaii and Bali are often higher than that.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 49):
while from all accounts the U.S. - Japan market has been in decline for the past decade without signs of turning around any time soon

This is the biggest problem. Japan is greying and the under 40 generation is going to be much less wealthy than their parents. This is not going to turn around anytime soon, if ever.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-03 07:43:53 and read 13311 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 44):

I don't think anyone on here is saying the A380 is the problem but the company using it and how they are using it is the problem.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: steex
Posted 2013-01-03 07:48:40 and read 13093 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 41):
even though they shut off ops at KIX and focused at ITM, they are still a lot of times used by biz travelers to get from TYO to Kansai quickly. The Shinkansen may be fast, but it still isn't as quick as a quick hop from HND to ITM.

Skymark doesn't serve ITM, either. They have placed their eggs in the UKB (Kobe) basket for the greater Osaka area.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-03 08:12:49 and read 12734 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 49):
the U.S. - Japan market has been in decline for the past decade without signs of turning around any time soon.
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 50):
Japan is greying and the under 40 generation is going to be much less wealthy than their parents. This is not going to turn around anytime soon, if ever.

Well, both of those statements are overdramatized and don't really consider the reasons behind the decline in travel. (Most of the news we get in the west about Japan is overdramatized too; daily life for most in Japan is the same or better than it was 20 years ago.) The economies of both the US and Japan are the biggest factor behind the decline in travel, and most travel to and from Japan and the US is still business travel. Skymark is not going for that market... or at least I assume they aren't, as an LCC, and they'd be stupid to try because ANA and JAL have that market locked up with their planes that are about 70% business class and offer service better than first class on most US airlines.

Also, the US economy is picking up and the Japanese economy is not as bad as it was a few years ago. We'll probably never return to the 80's and 90's when the Japanese were literally buying up large swaths of New York City, but I could easily see the decline in travel reversing just due to an increase in business from improving economies.

But again, that's talking mostly about ANA and JAL's market... it's actually really hard to measure the long-term Japanese population in New York, or the number of potential young visitors who might come if only the fares were low enough. I've seen counts of the Japanese population here that range anywhere from the official count of around 60,000, up to an unofficial count I read in the New York Times a few years ago of more than 500,000. Many of those are students or visitors who have let their visas lapse because they want to stay, and typically the USCIS doesn't go after Japanese who do that the way they do for those from some other countries. I personally have known quite a few Japanese who have let their visas lapse, so no doubt the real Japanese population here is higher than the official count. Those people can't easily fly back and forth but they have friends and family who can, and it adds up. And of course, those who *are* here legally could fly back and forth more often on an LCC.

Whenever I fly economy on ANA or JAL, it's pretty much 100% full at any time of year and always has been. The problem is those airlines only even really have those cabins on the JFK-NRT route for tour groups and code shares - if not for that, they'd probably love to get rid of them completely. They could easily fill more economy seats, but they've chosen to focus on the business market that they think is more lucrative. Skymark obviously sees an opportunity to cater to the market they see ANA and JAL as ignoring, and there really could be a large untapped market there.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-03 08:36:20 and read 12491 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 53):

Many airlines have gone BK with 90% + load factors. Skymark can easily fill up every seat but to do so profitably is going to be very challenging.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-03 10:17:25 and read 11389 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
As LAXIntl said, if Skymark is going for the mass market budget traveler, they're going to have to configure the plane with way more than 400 seats. If AF can fit 516 seats on their A380, I would think Skymark would be able to put at least 550 if not 600+...

NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.

They so far seem to know what they are doing domestically and they will tap into their customer base for the flights to the US. Introducing that kind of service though seems a little risky but they probably know what they are doing.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
Call them Tokyo Tower Air.

Thank you and good night.


Tower Air may be but I believe that they will have a better fate.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 43):

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Their original suggested configuration was 114 Business Class and 280 Economy.

If they did something like 94 Business (top deck, a la KE) and 427 (main deck, a la EK) I think they could make it work. Splitting the decks completely you could have a really good Business product whilst keeping the costs a little lower than competitors. With no competition from other Japanese airlines for the A380 specifically, they just need to undercut SQ to get a decent market share.

I don't see the comparison with KE or SQ. Skymark seems to do well on their own by creating their own market. The question will be whether they can compete with the established airlines in Japan for the routes they choose to compete on, not with other foreign carriers.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-03 10:33:02 and read 11161 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 54):
Many airlines have gone BK with 90% + load factors. Skymark can easily fill up every seat but to do so profitably is going to be very challenging.

Well, that's true - I guess I've been more focused on whether there's a market, not whether it can be profitable. I guess there's probably a market for anything at the right price.

I have a feeling, though, that if the US airlines can make a profit on this route with what's already practically an LCC level of service (at least compared to ANA and JAL), then I could see a true LCC doing it with even fewer amenities at a lower price by flying airplanes with a lower CASM.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-01-03 11:31:04 and read 10604 times.

Is this really going to work ? Japan is the only country in Asia with airports at capacity. But it also has the most Pacific competition. IF an A380 is a "good idea" wouldn't ANA do it ?

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-01-03 12:35:24 and read 9917 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 54):
Many airlines have gone BK with 90% + load factors. Skymark can easily fill up every seat but to do so profitably is going to be very challenging.

Many such airlines were not established LCC's. The long haul LCC segment is very new. Skyark is doing something that no one has even attempted to do. That is certainly no guarantee of success but it also has no correlation with the past since in this case, the past doesn't exist.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Bluewave 707
Posted 2013-01-03 12:39:32 and read 9873 times.

I could see Skymark entering the HNL market with either with an A330 or A380.

Being that SKY is partly owned by HIS Tours, and based at HND, they could fill an A380 for HNL during peak seasons.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-01-03 12:46:40 and read 9796 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 58):

Sorry but you are not correct with that statement. Air Asia is an LCC and their long haul was a disaster from a profit point of view. Likewise Air Berlin. The past has not been friendly for long haul LCCs.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-01-03 12:59:29 and read 9653 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 11):
NYC-Tokyo seems like a tough market to break into for an airline that has little to no brand awareness in the US, and several entrenched competitors already serving it.

Skymark may be a no name in international airline industry and for a.net which is mainly focussing around the US micro cosmos, but behind Skymarks is the Japanese travel industry that knows exactly what Japanese travelers want - and the legacies of the industry do not offer. To fill a daily A380 NYC-Tokyo for them is as complex as to fill a daily A321 from DUS to PMI for Air Berlin.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-01-03 13:28:39 and read 9387 times.

I think we are underestimating Skymark Airlines.

Skymark is not just a shitty airline or whatever but is partly owned by HIS, a big tour organiser that knows exactly what Japanese travelers want. With JAL (still?) downsizing and ANA not picking up their market share that leaves a lot of capacity for Skymark. JAL and ANA are also not jumping on the big planes, they are even ditching the 747s.

I was a little bit surprised with the low-density seating configuration (only 394 seats) but it looks like they want to go after JAL and ANA's premium passengers. For example, Skymark could afford to give premium economy seats at economy ticket prices with the A380.

Anyway, Skymark is really serious on the A380 and I'm sure they will accept the delivery for the first planes. They also said to take 9 more if the concept is a success:
http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/handel...ecken-nach-europa-an/60015019.html (German only).

[Edited 2013-01-03 13:45:49]

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-03 15:38:46 and read 9051 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 62):
For example, Skymark could afford to give premium economy seats at economy ticket prices with the A380.

I doubt that. They could maybe give Economy Plus seats at economy prices. There's no way they could equal JAL's PE offering and sell them for economy prices; the A380's CASM is 15% less than the 777, not 50%. And that's assuming you *can* fill it - presumably if JAL was filling flights with premium pax on this route, they wouldn't have cut back the number of flights per day on this route by 2/3. I could easily be convinced the LCC market is there for an A380; I'm a lot more skeptical about there being an A380-full of premium passengers per day looking to save a little money.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 62):
With JAL (still?) downsizing and ANA not picking up their market share that leaves a lot of capacity for Skymark.

JAL is downsizing because they're losing money with their strategy. If Skymark comes in with that same strategy and more capacity than JAL even downsized, then they're doomed.

The only way this works is if Skymark tries to tap a different market that ANA and JAL don't serve. JAL and ANA focus on premium passengers and what economy they do offer, they don't even compete on price with other airlines. They are always more expensive.

This has to be a real LCC service and fare structure or I agree with those that say it's DOA. Trying to make a living by stealing ANA and JAL's passengers on this route is suicide. Domestic flying is one thing; international to NYC is another.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-03 15:48:21 and read 9018 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 63):
I doubt that. They could maybe give Economy Plus seats at economy prices. There's no way they could equal JAL's PE offering and sell them for economy prices; t
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 63):
JAL is downsizing because they're losing money with their strategy. If Skymark comes in with that same strategy and more capacity than JAL even downsized, then they're doomed.

   Hold on a second there, with both points:

E+ and P.E. are no different when classified in Japan. It's just wordplay. JL and BC are going to offer practically the same thing when it comes to the seating arrangement.

JL is downsizing because they have struggled with so many legacy costs which they probably also inherited with JD, along with the fact that JL is a very large company that was spun off from governmental control. They have all of these background costs to deal with on top of fuel costs, and pension costs.

BC is a relatively new airline, with a very efficient mode of operation. They have strong investor support and have consistently placed top with customer service reviews (with the exception of one lapse earlier in 2012, which was corrected by the p/r team.)
Their goal is to hopefully break the duopoly of JL and NH by offering a nice ride across the ponds at a competitive rate.
They know what they're doing. It's Japan. Japan never does anything without researching into it extensively.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: travelin man
Posted 2013-01-03 15:48:32 and read 9016 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 62):
I was a little bit surprised with the low-density seating configuration (only 394 seats) but it looks like they want to go after JAL and ANA's premium passengers. For example, Skymark could afford to give premium economy seats at economy ticket prices with the A380.

OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but how does Cheap Prices + Low Density + Expensive new (BIG) airplane = financial success?

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-03 15:55:01 and read 8979 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 53):
overdramatized

Not really, I mean basically this is how things are on the ground. And if anything Keidanren has been conservative in their statements on the direction of things over the last 5 years.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 53):
daily life for most in Japan is the same or better than it was 20 years ago

For people living in certain areas, yes, but this is by no means the case in many parts of this country. Well-paid blue collar labor is shrinking rapidly and in rural areas the hollowing out of various industries began more than a decade ago. This has increased competition for jobs in cities and in places like Osaka where some major employers are laying off 15-20% of their workforces this year, that competition will only intensify. At large employers who are still in trouble, the onus will continue to be on hiring cheap university graduates and encouraging those up the ladder to retire early.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-03 16:07:29 and read 8980 times.

For fun here are the largest Japan-US markets in annual pure O&D. I excluded transfer traffic as Skymark does not have much a network at NRT.

Might give us clues as to where Skymark plans to utilize its fleet of on order A330 and A380s.

TYO - HNL - 1,443,187
TYO - GUM - 1,040,180
TYO - LAX - 596,096
TYO - NYC - 446,866
OSA - HNL - 434,631
TYO - SFO - 344,291
OSA - GUM - 336,107
TYO - SPN - 286,374
NGO - HNL - 265,004
TYO - OGG - 230,500
TYO - CHI - 211,731
TYO - KOA - 160,732
TYO - SEA - 108,244
TYO - DC - 88,859
TYO - LAS - 79,632
OSA - SFO - 67,586
OSA - LAX - 64,805

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-03 16:08:26 and read 8967 times.

This is addressing only the thread starting post, not even debating whether they should have ordered the A380, or discussing the configuration:

Well duh. For US cities that could support them running a 380, where else? I'm not saying it will make money, but it seems to be the best American option. With 6 380s and 6 330s on order, I think that JFK makes sense as a long haul destination. The other cities that will probably recieve the 380 are Other Asian cities and maybe Europe, possibly running some down to Australia. LAX and SFO have way too much capacity on the route to gracefully enter with a 380. They might operate some to close Asian markets too, maybe ICN-HND-PEK, or connecting onwards such as ICN-NRT-LON.

The main Skymark hub is HND. Is HND A380 certified?

Now to address recent talks:

And I agree we might be underestimating Skymark. AFAIK, no LCC has gone from 737 short haul domestic straight to A380 orders before. Granted, they have some 330s on order too, but it is a big switch to say the least. Hopefully they know what they are doing. I agree that the HIS stake in the company should help. I think that JAPAN-HNL might have too much capacity and competition to warrant a 380, even with HIS. But a 330 could work nicely.

Skymark could certainly die soon. We will see what prices and service are like on long haul. But with a quite JAL like strategy that didn't work for JAL, they need to either offer something unique or serve routes JA/ANA don't. The problem is, pretty much all routes that could support a 330/380 from NRT are served by one if not both main Japan carriers, and often multiple others too.

Skymark is a late entrant. JAL and ANA already have the codeshare, alliance, and business pax base. SkyTeam might be interested in a Japanese partner, but Skymark needs to prove they have a working business model.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-03 16:44:28 and read 8911 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 68):
The main Skymark hub is HND. Is HND A380 certified?

Not that I heard of last time. It's really cramped there.

NRT is putting the finishing touches on a LCC Concourse, and when this is all finished, BC is going to probably expand ops at NRT, especially with connections from DL.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-03 19:16:07 and read 8683 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 68):
The problem is, pretty much all routes that could support a 330/380 from NRT are served by one if not both main Japan carriers, and often multiple others too.

And that's not all - both NH and JL also have existing tour package consolidation agreements with H.I.S. That's another question mark in all of this.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-01-04 05:58:13 and read 8333 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 60):
Sorry but you are not correct with that statement. Air Asia is an LCC and their long haul was a disaster from a profit point of view. Likewise Air Berlin. The past has not been friendly for long haul LCCs.

First off, I'm not sure when I said otherwise. All I said was that the long haul LCC model was "very new", which it is. There haven't been many long haul LCC at all. Yes, there was Laker Airways and People Express in the 70's, but in more recent years I can't remember only 3 other: Oasis Hong Kong, Air Asia, and more recently Scoot. Air Berlin is not a LCC.
My point is, it's a business model that hasn't been tried very much and there's certainly room for improvement and someone will eventually find the right way to do it.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: gemuser
Posted 2013-01-04 14:34:40 and read 7985 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 71):
but in more recent years I can't remember only 3 other: Oasis Hong Kong, Air Asia, and more recently Scoot.

Jetstar? Unless you think SYD/CNS-NRT/HNL is not long haul. They seem to have been fairly successful at LH LCC.

Gemuser

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Bluewave 707
Posted 2013-01-05 19:36:21 and read 7522 times.

If HIS does not renew (or just cancel) their contracts with JAL and ANA, and divert them all to SKY ... then SKY might have a better shot with competing against the two senior carriers.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2013-01-06 00:31:15 and read 7360 times.

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 73):

If HIS does not renew (or just cancel) their contracts with JAL and ANA, and divert them all to SKY ... then SKY might have a better shot with competing against the two senior carriers.

I suspect large tour operators have enough customers that they'll need all the airlines serving them. And certainly enough destinations.

But of course they can prioritize their own vehicle for destinations that it flies to. If they have a large US tour business, I see no problem in filling the planes. At least with typical prices for such tours. (Don't know about Japan, but in other places it would be rock bottom tourist class prices. So that's the odd thing, maybe Japan is different or maybe Skymark should configure their 380s with 2x more seats...)

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: flyglobal
Posted 2013-01-06 03:04:00 and read 7218 times.

Wow, some here do hard to come out of their branded brain box.

Skymark may just offer what many tourists want: a vacation from the beginning with the starting flight comfortably and not being cramped in a 31 inch seat pitch in economy.

If they offer as they mentioned and as it was mentioned by some earlier here: 'we will offer Premium economy seat comfort for economy prices.

So if they offer their 38-40 inch seat pitched seats comparable to JL and NH economy seat price, who stupid would I be as a tourist not to strongly consider this?

I asked my Japanese wife - we just returned from Japan with LH NGO-FRA in 31 pitch economy.
She said, of course I would prefer going Skymark and I give a shit on the 50% Miles and More miles on Lufthansa Frequent flyer program if I can have 38 inch pitch instead. So do all their friends. I also would prefer this service over LH, ANA, JAL when I go leisure anyhow and do not need a *A network around.

I heard that Skymark is even considering a honeymoon suite in their A380s. To late for myself, but if you know how much Japanese spend for their marriage and Honeymoon trips anyhow, I believe this will be a runner on routes such as NY.
They may need only one or 2 of their 6 planes for that and probably only one weekly or be-weekly service to selective places.

Anyhow, I am a candidate for Skymarks low cost travel offer, not LCC in the traditional way, cheapest price -cramped,-low service, -add on fee driven, but value for a good price. I believe that Skymark found a concept to make Long haul 'value' service work. So lets change the name: Not LCC = Low Cost carrier, but VCC = Valued Cost Carrier.

Regards

Flyglobal
who loves this idea

[Edited 2013-01-06 03:06:59]

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-01-06 04:37:19 and read 7093 times.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 38):

The H.I.S. website is currently quoting prices in the 75,000 yen range for a weekday roundtrip to NYC from the Tokyo area in a quiet travel period in March - and that's the cheapest for DL/UA. Considering 30,000 yen of that goes to agent fees, taxes, and the fuel surcharge, that leaves a base fare of around 45,000 yen - or around $550. If Skymark undercuts by 10-15% it's going to be tough to get the numbers to work pretty quick.

They don't need to undercut DL/UA. If they use Skymark instead of DL/UA they get a bigger piece of the pie (the profit DL/UA would made)

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 53):
Skymark is not going for that market... or at least I assume they aren't, as an LCC, and they'd be stupid to try because ANA and JAL have that market locked up with their planes that are about 70% business class and offer service better than first class on most US airlines.

They intend (or intended) to go after the business pax which are working for or owned by small / medium size enterprises . According to Skymark, these passengers are price sensitive if given a good option (other than what's currently offered).

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-01-07 12:37:51 and read 6577 times.

Quoting flyglobal (Reply 75):
Wow, some here do hard to come out of their branded brain box.

Skymark may just offer what many tourists want: a vacation from the beginning with the starting flight comfortably and not being cramped in a 31 inch seat pitch in economy.

...

Regards

Flyglobal
who loves this idea

   Amen to that. Exactly what I have in mind.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-01-07 12:46:39 and read 6573 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 65):
OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but how does Cheap Prices + Low Density + Expensive new (BIG) airplane = financial success?

It was just some quick thinking on my side. Take the JAL 77W for example: it has 272 seats and the A380 has, let's say, a 30% higher operating cost over the 77W. Skymark should equip their A380 with at least 272 * 1.3 = 354 seats to match the JAL product. But they will have 394 seats, they could afford to give better prices over the JAL tickets.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2013-01-08 01:22:01 and read 6362 times.

Airlines don't make a decision to by such big (an expensive) aircraft lightly and there will be a comprehensive business plan in place. Of course this offers no guarantees but to all you critics here, remember that VS started off with a 747 and are still around today. Quite a big plane to enter the market with right? At least Skymark is already an established brand in Japan so that already gives them a customer base. Also, I am sure there are plenty of frequent fliers who are itching for them to start international flights.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2013-01-08 05:48:42 and read 6221 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 79):
Of course this offers no guarantees but to all you critics here, remember that VS started off with a 747 and are still around today.

Yes, the only real difference being they started in a market where travel was growing rather than contracting. This is not the heyday of the 1980s in Japan anymore. Recently Japanese media has been talking often about the fact that newly-married couples in their 30s have as much as 50% less disposable income than their parents did at the same age.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 79):
Also, I am sure there are plenty of frequent fliers who are itching for them to start international flights.

Japanese consumers heavily use credit cards tied to mileage points programs. As I stated previously in the thread, so far none of the major Japanese card issuers are linked to Skymark, just ANA Mileage Club and JAL Mileage Bank. Some of the major issuers like SMBC, AEON, etc have long-term exclusive contracts with JL and NH. Changes come at a glacial pace in the Japanese consumer finance industry - debit cards are only now entering limited use nearly 15 years after they appeared in Western Europe and North America.

Topic: RE: Skymark Japan Applies For A380 Service To The US
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-08 10:02:09 and read 6044 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 65):
OK, maybe I'm missing something here, but how does Cheap Prices + Low Density + Expensive new (BIG) airplane = financial success?

No you have not missed anything. I don't think they are going to concentrate on markets where there is saturation like on the TYO-LAX route. They may look to going to Europe with their A380. I am surprised that they are not leasing their aircraft or did I miss that bit of information, in that if they are not going to make any money or may be hard pressed they could structure their lease payments in a way that they have an out. If they purchase the A380 would there be a market for the A380 out there considering the soft market there is now for the VLA.


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