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Topic: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: doulasc
Posted 2013-01-05 18:25:33 and read 16837 times.

Here is a good topic. Around 1958 TWA ran by Howard Hughes was thinking about buying Northeast Airlines.
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-who would survive?
Western and Continental-new compmany Continental Western
Pan Am and TWA-would either name survive or a new airline created.
A lot of mergers did not happen because the CAB would not approve them.
Anyone want to add anything else?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-01-05 18:27:51 and read 16860 times.

United-US Airways in 2000, with the DCA ops were going to be spun off into a new airline (that had an AMR investment) called DC Air.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-05 18:33:45 and read 16824 times.

I don't know if it counts, but there is also US Airways' attempted hostile takeover of Delta while the latter airline was in bankruptcy.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: BA0197
Posted 2013-01-05 18:39:26 and read 16787 times.

BA and AA initially wanted to merge operations however were rejected by the European and American courts. They eventually established their JBA after multiple attempts at satisfying the regulators.

BA and KL, failed after it was thought that BA was not giving KL enough credit for their operation.

BA and Swiss?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2013-01-05 18:42:22 and read 16764 times.

I was excited about Frontiers and Western Pacific's merger before it fell through. I believe there was once upon a time talk of Frontier 1 merging with UAL before the former went belly up.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-05 18:46:04 and read 16730 times.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):

BA and Swiss?

There were no merger plans, just an alliance.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: BA0197
Posted 2013-01-05 18:48:43 and read 16713 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):

If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-05 18:50:49 and read 16702 times.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 6):
If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?

LH bought Swiss, so there went the relationship. Swiss was also getting close to AA and I think many expected them to join Oneworld eventually.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-05 19:02:41 and read 16626 times.

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970 (with NW the surviving carrier) but the CAB wouldn't agree that National's recently-awarded MIA-LAX route could be included without further hearings etc., and NW backed out of the merger.

Long thread on similar subject a year ago.
Announced Airline Mergers That Never Happened (by 727LOVER Aug 7 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-01-05 19:24:28 and read 16514 times.

In 2006/07, before BA/IB merged into IAG, Lufthansa showed public interest on taking over Iberia.

As for Spanair, the word in the street was that Qatar Airways was to take a stake in the company (à la Etihad with Air Berlin) and save it... but that never happened and they went bankrupt almost 1 year ago.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-01-05 19:33:05 and read 16479 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-01-05 19:36:52 and read 16456 times.

FR is currently making its second attempt to buy EI. Its first attempt was rejected by the competition authorities.

As a result of that first attempt FR already owns 29.4 percent of EI's equity. However the Irish government also owns 25.4 per cent of the airline.

A big sticking point in any multinational purchase are the international bilateral air service agreements that usually specify that services be limited to operations of one or sometimes more airlines from the countries signing the agreement. This is why AF and KL retain their individual identities and are legally still French and Dutch. Similarly the IAG partners, BA and IB and the members of the Lufthansa Group like LX, OS and LH itself retain their individual nationalities and identities.

Although the trend towards new Open Skies Agreements suggests things may be changing, it only needs one significant country, such as the Russian Federation, to insist on maintaining traditional bilateral agreements to ensure that multi-national mergers do not result in the identity of the merged airlines disappearing.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: bohica
Posted 2013-01-05 19:44:15 and read 16420 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):
United-US Airways in 2000

Part of the deal also involved merging PSA, and Piedmont into ACA.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-05 19:51:18 and read 16380 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.

I would say that part of National is now incorporated in DL. Pan Am acquired National but DL didn't acquire all of Pan Am.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-05 19:57:42 and read 16342 times.

TWA to just about everyone in the 1980s and 1990s.

Northwest had a lot of close proposed.mergers and half mergers/half alliances throughout the years (KLM)

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: spartanmjf
Posted 2013-01-05 20:03:41 and read 16306 times.

Was there not talk of a PA / NW merger in the late 1980's?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: COSPN
Posted 2013-01-05 20:06:46 and read 16284 times.

Northwest and Continental in 1992

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: sparky35805
Posted 2013-01-05 20:12:57 and read 16252 times.

Eastern-American in 1962 with American the surviving carrier.CAB denied the plans in 1963.
Sparky

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-05 20:40:26 and read 16154 times.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Northwest and Continental in 1992

There was also Delta and Continental in the mid 90s. It was because of that takeover attempt that NW eventually got their golden share as they helped CO fight off DL.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: rampart
Posted 2013-01-05 20:42:40 and read 16140 times.

Wasn't both Pan Am and Texas International bidding for National, one reason Pan Am paid too much for National?
If TI had acquired NA...
CO and EA might have been left alone...
and...

-Rampart

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2013-01-05 20:43:54 and read 16137 times.

1980s - Braniff and Eastern.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2013-01-05 20:47:45 and read 16122 times.

I dont think it was ever announced, but there were talks at one time about AirTran/TWA, and TWA/US. at the time US/UA was announced NW/AA were in talks about merging too. I still think US/TW would have been a good combo, combined with HP. Definitely would have given US coverage in the midwest via STL.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: dcann40
Posted 2013-01-05 20:58:18 and read 16055 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Also Northeast and Northwest were talking a merger-

Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970

All are now part of Delta Air Lines.

National isn't. National was taken over by Pan Am. Delta never acquired Pan Am.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-05 20:59:24 and read 16060 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):

The TWA mess plus the US-HP mess probably would have caused angry pilots to crash helicopters in the headquarters of the striking Executives In Dubai  

TWA was actively looking to merge throughout the 90s. No one wanted to. Most other carriers were doing better.at the time, and NO ONE wanted to be a part of the TWA mess. There were just so many issues.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: rampart
Posted 2013-01-05 21:00:03 and read 16048 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):

I dont think it was ever announced, but there were talks at one time about AirTran/TWA, and TWA/US. at the time US/UA was announced NW/AA were in talks about merging too. I still think US/TW would have been a good combo, combined with HP. Definitely would have given US coverage in the midwest via STL.

I recall it being an HP+TW proposal, before US was in the picture, I could be wrong. I agree, it might have been a good combo.

-Rampart

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: HermansCVR580
Posted 2013-01-05 21:00:40 and read 16548 times.

Don't know which year but American wanted Republic.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: doulasc
Posted 2013-01-05 21:01:15 and read 16635 times.

I would think that American Airlines and Braniff would have been a good merger in the 1970s. It would open up South America for AA.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-05 21:10:00 and read 17051 times.

Quoting doulasc (Reply 26):

Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least. As far as airlines to acquire, Braniff would have been higher on the list mainly because it added to the DFW presence and removed a competitor.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 23):

I forgot to mention the 747s flying LHR-HNL-LAS, flown by computer while all the pilots were in Dubai crashing copters into the HQ of the striking executives. And Karabu selling half the seats.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: LOWS
Posted 2013-01-05 21:35:31 and read 16842 times.

Well, wasn't there US+UA in 2007?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-01-05 21:42:25 and read 16904 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 7):

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 6):
If I just may say that would have been a formidable alliance. Very powerful. If I may, what happened. Did BA decide to go with oneworld or did Swiss back out?

LH bought Swiss, so there went the relationship. Swiss was also getting close to AA and I think many expected them to join Oneworld eventually.

Swiss was a member-elect of oneworld. I was working with AA and my oneworld colleagues in 1995-96 on the coordinated Ticketing Manual. LX was getting the drafts as we went along, but we were surprised with their sudden withdrawal right as we finished. Shortly thereafter, they linked up with LH. We had been waiting for LX to supply their info on pre-paids, refunds, net tickets, Invol Reroute, etc. for inclusion in the final oneworld manual.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-05 22:08:19 and read 16801 times.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 28):

US-UA mergers have popped up over the years. I believe UA was looking at options, and Star Alliance partner that would strengthen the East US popped up. But US was still not finished merging with HP (and to this day not everything os sorted out.) Not a great time for UA to merge with US, and UA was still talking with CO a lot.

CO had been the target of hostile takeover bids from DL ans NW in 1996. CO also explored a Western merger right after deregulation.

Pan Am tried to merge with EA, TWA, and AA throughout the 1950s to 70s. They presented a NW takeover bid in 1989.

US explored an AA or UA merger in 2008, and UA again in 2010, any many were surprised when UA and US didn't merge, UA choosing CO instead

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: BDL757
Posted 2013-01-05 22:25:30 and read 16749 times.

I've also heard from some people (some of them high up the food chain) at work that before DL and NW merged that DL and UA were to merge but at that time UA had 'too much baggage' so DL backed off. I don't really remember seeing/hearing anything between DL/UA announced so it could all be hearsay.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-01-06 00:38:26 and read 16385 times.

Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

It progressed until the Swiss court rejected it entirely. It was one of the major events which pushed for the failed expansion plan in Swissair.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: JohnClipper
Posted 2013-01-06 00:44:39 and read 16202 times.

There was talk of TW and PI before US entered the picture...

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: 9lflyguy
Posted 2013-01-06 01:40:09 and read 15776 times.

More of an acquisition but Southwest and Frontier recently before Airtran.


Then before our demise Colgan and Mesaba were going to be folded into one.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Phen
Posted 2013-01-06 03:05:47 and read 15151 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
R is currently making its second attempt to buy EI. Its first attempt was rejected by the competition authorities.

Not entirely accurate; FR has just had it's third attempt to take over EI effectively quashed by the Irish Government who has clearly stated that it will not sell it's stake in the airline to FR.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Fuling
Posted 2013-01-06 04:02:49 and read 14714 times.

Didn't Air New Zealand try to buy out Ansett Australia just before Ansett was grounded?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: VHHYI
Posted 2013-01-06 04:47:46 and read 14373 times.

Quoting Fuling (Reply 36):
Didn't Air New Zealand try to buy out Ansett Australia just before Ansett was grounded?

They owned Ansett (having acquired half from TNT in the mid-90s and the rest from News Corp later on)!, except for Ansett International which was 51% owned by Australian interests to allow it to operate, the exact same structure Virgin Australia is operating under today.

When they realized they paid too much for it, they tried getting SQ to inject cash in various manners (stonewalled by foreign ownership limits on NZ), then in a last ditch effort before collapse they offered to QF for $1.

edit: What you might be thinking of is Air NZ/Ansett trying to buy Virgin Blue for $250m, rejected by SRB himself at a press conference.

[Edited 2013-01-06 04:49:48]

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: okAY
Posted 2013-01-06 04:52:22 and read 14322 times.

AY and SK, since the dawn of time. Never happened, never will.

okAY

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-06 05:21:20 and read 14028 times.

At one point Air Florida was trying to acquire Western but Air Florida went under instead.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-01-06 05:40:16 and read 13850 times.

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 15):
Was there not talk of a PA / NW merger in the late 1980's?

Pan AM was getting funds from a Private Equity shop called the Arlie Group to help fund the buyout of NW. That would have been a great merger returning PA to Asia, sadly it never happened. Funny thing is most of Delta's route system to Europe was Pan Am's.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: ABQopsHP
Posted 2013-01-06 05:58:43 and read 13667 times.

Quoting rampart (Reply 19):

Always thought the same. What would it be like now?

Quoting rampart (Reply 24):

I was working for HP during this time, and was hopeful something would happen. It was becoming obvious that HP needed to do something soon. We were too small.


Also when we went into BK back in the early 90s, there had been lots of rumours that Bill Franke,
and Crandall at AA were good golfing buddies. Crandall had been seen in PHX numerous times
and we thought maybe AA was taking a good look at HP. Even the AA employees in ELP where
I worked were hearing things. Who knows.

JD CRP

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-01-06 07:34:56 and read 12675 times.

Quoting Phen (Reply 35):
Not entirely accurate; FR has just had it's third attempt to take over EI effectively quashed by the Irish Government who has clearly stated that it will not sell it's stake in the airline to FR.

I understood the first bid dated back to 5 October 2006 by when FR had obtained a 19.2 per cent stake in EI. Subsequently by 28 November it had increased that stake to 25,2 per cent and now holds 29.4 per cent of EI's shares.

I also understood that FR notified the EC competition authorities of what I understood was its second and most recent bid on 5 July 2912 and the EC responded on 10 July that it was continuing an investigation as to the impact of the FR equity investment in EI. This was in response to an earlier appeal by EI requesting that the EC disenfranchise the voting rights attributable of the FR stock holding as if FR used its voting rights it would be anti-competitive.

If this was the third bid when was the second Ryanair bid made. I can find no reference to it.

As far as I can determine the current bid has not been "quashed" but is still on-going if in very muddy waters. Indeed as recently as the 29 December the "Irish Examiner" published an article "Minister sees the light on Ryanair Aer Lingus offer". It starts:

"It would seem that the Minister for Transport has seen the light in terms of the validity of the Ryanair offer for Aer Lingus."

If his government has already "quashed" the offer why is its Minister responsible being reported in the Irish press as having "seen the light . . . of the validity of the . . . offer"?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-06 07:45:23 and read 12583 times.

United considered buying PI in 1987 but US got the jump and won. How different the industry would had that happened.

I am pretty certain TW and US discussed a merger in the 1980s or 90s.

Rumors floated around about American buying out OZ just before TW did.

NW buying ML(?) in 1991.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-01-06 08:44:44 and read 11843 times.

American and Western tried to merge as well.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: cosyr
Posted 2013-01-06 08:48:42 and read 11805 times.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
Northwest and Continental in 1992

This one happened, and it saved Continental, who was almost bought by Delta. Northwest bought a controlling share, without the intention of merging the two airlines into one. That's why NW had the Golden Share up until they merged with Delta themselves.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: AVLAirlineFreq
Posted 2013-01-06 09:09:28 and read 11489 times.

In the mid-1960s, Ozark proposed merging with Central Airlines. Central later merged with the original Frontier (and of course, Ozark merged with TW in the mid-1980s.)

[Edited 2013-01-06 09:10:02]

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Lofty
Posted 2013-01-06 09:56:07 and read 10894 times.

Before BA jumped into bed with AA they tried US and UA.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: GSPflyer
Posted 2013-01-06 10:14:05 and read 10657 times.

Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: flyjoe
Posted 2013-01-06 10:19:41 and read 10624 times.

In 1999, United looked at acquiring America West. I had just left working with US in DEN and was hired by HP in ABQ about that time. I remembered being a bit concerned with that news. HP had a large station because we also did ground handling for CO and F9, which likely would go away and then add in the amount of staff with UA. The numbers didn't favor a new employee.

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/21/entertainment/ca-336

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-06 10:29:16 and read 10474 times.

Before the WN/TZ deal and codeshare, TZ had a deal in place with FL when TZ filed for Chapter 11. FL would have got the MDW hub, leases to 14 MDW gates, some 738s, and the C8 codeshare. TZ would have kept their charters, the IND focus city, and Hawaii routes. HP also expressed interest in TZ's MDW ops, but I'm not sure what that entailed.

WN submitted a higher bid for seven MDW gates and a codeshare with TZ than what FL was going to pay for all of TZ's MDW ops. The bankruptcy court favored WN's bid over FL's. (Ironically, as we all know, WN later bought FL.)

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-06 10:35:50 and read 10385 times.

There was HP/TZ in 2004. HP would have assumed the aircraft leases and MDW gates with TZ continuing as a charter outfit and retaining its debt.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2013-01-06 10:36:02 and read 10260 times.

[

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US?



I think it was the other way around with DL refusing to merge.

I remember reading about the NA-NW merger talks and although it seemed to be ideal and NA's Maytag wanted to get out of the airline, they couldn't even decide where to have their headquarters.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: BeachBoy
Posted 2013-01-06 10:43:14 and read 10161 times.

AQ and HA on multiple occasions. We all know how that eventually played out.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-01-06 10:51:35 and read 10088 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 21):
AirTran/TWA

That lasted all of about two weeks, as FL got a look at TWA's books and broke off the deal. More than likely the crippling Karabu deal TWA had with Icahn is what killed it since the deal would have still been in force even with a merger. The only way TWA could get out of it was in bankruptcy and FL didn't have the $$$ to provide debtor in possession financing as they were only just beginning to get their own financial issues sorted.



Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

Hostile takeover bid by US.....

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-06 11:15:02 and read 9824 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 51):
HP would have assumed the aircraft leases and MDW gates with TZ continuing as a charter outfit and retaining its debt.

Thanks; I didn't remember how HP's bid for TZ went. Would C8 (ATA Connection) and their SAABs have become America West Express then, much like how FL planned on turning C8 into AirTran Connect?

Still, I don't think that TZ's 738s would have lasted very long in HP's Airbus-heavy fleet (with no 737NGs, just 737-200s and 737 Classics). OTOH, the 757s would have been a perfect fit, as both TZ and HP stuck Rolls RB211s on their 757s. Even with the 757 commonality, I bet that the 738 leases would have gone out the door had it happened: HP had 50 A318s on order at the time that could easily be converted into other A320 family members (which they eventually were at US), so those 738s probably would have been replaced by A320s in no time.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Cody
Posted 2013-01-06 11:25:55 and read 9718 times.

August 1984...Northeastern International proposed to merge with Air Florida which was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, but later backed out. Northeastern subsequently went bankrupt itself and Air Florida merged with Midway.

1991.......Northwest and Midway. Northwest backed out of the deal just as the papers were about to be signed and Midway ended up shutting down.

1982.......A merger between PSA and the bankrupt Braniff was explored. This would have allowed us to see PSA in Dallas and I was told they were planning on keeping the 747's but operating them under the PSA name!

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: bmacleod
Posted 2013-01-06 11:28:21 and read 9663 times.

Didn't DL and CO have some merger talk in late 1990s?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-01-06 11:30:38 and read 9676 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 43):
NW buying ML(?) in 1991.

Yes, until NW found out about an environmental nightmare they would have to
clean up at MDW.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 27):

Quoting doulasc (Reply 26):

Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least. As far as airlines to acquire, Braniff would have been higher on the list mainly because it added to the DFW presence and removed a competitor.


BN did make money in South America. Until Harding and gang took over and deregulation, they were profitable. They had a considerable amount of accounts receivable when they filed Chapter 11.

There was talk of NW taking over BN ops after they filed for bankruptcy, however NW only wanted aircraft.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: SPaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-01-06 11:48:12 and read 9446 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 32):
Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

And the new company was to be named Symphony.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2013-01-06 11:56:00 and read 9362 times.

I think there was a project of merger between AF and Sabena in the early 90s?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-06 11:56:32 and read 9363 times.

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):

Yeah, BI expanded too fast after deregulation.

NW tried mergers and takeovers of a lot of airlines. Was it mostly just for metal?

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: canyonblue17
Posted 2013-01-06 12:43:52 and read 8909 times.

Considering Southwest's acquisition of Airtran, don't forget not too long ago Southwest first showed interest in acquiring Frontier.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: ABQopsHP
Posted 2013-01-06 12:59:19 and read 8693 times.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 49):

I completely forgot about the UA/HP thing. Come to think of it, it scared the crap out of us, because we knew what UA would do. Just grab the planes, and close the hubs down. But this was about the time
all airlines were in another scramble to get bigger. Like the mid 80's all over again.


JD CRP

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-06 13:08:16 and read 8587 times.

Quoting Lofty (Reply 47):
Before BA jumped into bed with AA they tried US and UA.

IIRC, until BA got in bed with US and T5 opened at ORD, BA flights departed from T1 at ORD (with arrivals at the temporary T4 like everyone else). UA moved much of their JFK operations into BA's T7 at around the same time.

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):
BN did make money in South America. Until Harding and gang took over and deregulation, they were profitable.

Harding was CEO of BN long before deregulation and when they were profitable. It was only when deregulation took hold when BN started their overexpansion. The feeling at BN after deregulation was that if BN didn't expand rapidly, UA (then "the largest airline in the free world" and a staunch proponent of deregulation) would crush BN like a bug. Little did they know that it wasn't UA that was doing the killing of BN - they were killing themselves (though AA's new DFW hub didn't help matters, either).

Quoting FI642 (Reply 58):
Yes, until NW found out about an environmental nightmare they would have to
clean up at MDW.

Was this in regards to a hangar, fuel contamination, or something else?

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 57):
Didn't DL and CO have some merger talk in late 1990s?
DL wanted to buy CO outright, while NW wanted to invest in CO at around the same time. NW's bid was the chosen one, as Gordon Bethune wanted CO to remain independent. (The "golden share" of CO held by NW happened around the same time.)

[Edited 2013-01-06 13:10:21]

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: HA_DC9
Posted 2013-01-06 13:12:25 and read 8522 times.

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 53):
AQ and HA on multiple occasions. We all know how that eventually played out.

Thank god. This would have been a disaster. By the time the final occasion was announced back 2001 (backed by Greg Brenneman) AQ was beginning it's death decline. Many people blamed HA for backing out of the deal, but I can't blame them. The writing was on the wall for AQ. Plus it was speculated that AQ (obviously the weaker airline of the two) wanted more control in the merged entity. AQ at the time was privately owned by the Ching and Ing families and the families stood to lose a huge share of ownership if the deal went through. So in the end, HA backed out and went it alone and the rest is history.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: ord
Posted 2013-01-06 13:56:30 and read 8106 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 27):
Braniff never really made money, and was an interesting carrier, to say the least.

Braniff made money every year in the 70s, except 1970 and 1979.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-06 14:12:46 and read 7952 times.

People might forget but UA wanted to buy US in 1995.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-01-06 14:26:26 and read 7826 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Northwest and National also agreed to merge in 1970 (with NW the surviving carrier) but the CAB wouldn't agree that National's recently-awarded MIA-LAX route could be included without further hearings etc., and NW backed out of the merger.

I read that NW's proposed merger with Northeast was thought to be a sure thing until they found out that the MIA-LAX route was not to be part of the deal, per the CAB. With NW it was to be all or nothing so they backed out at the last minute. DL stepped in and made an offer and it was accepted.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 48):
Before DL and NW merged, didn't DL attempt to merge with US? I'm wanting to say it was in 2006.

It was a hostile takeover attempt by US during DL's bankruptcy proceedings, which was rejected.



I heard that in the mid 60s, DL and CO were in talks for a merger, but the sticking point was deciding who the surviving carrier was to be. Neither Woolman at DL and Six at CO were willing to give in.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-01-06 15:08:06 and read 7455 times.

Southern Airways, before merging with North Central, also had merger talks with Ozark, Texas International, Piedmont and Allegheny. As one top Exec at Southern said in retrospect, "We were too poor to paint and too proud to whitewash."

Western and Wien Air also came close to merging.

There was also some scuttlebutt going around in the early/mid-80's that both Delta and US were kicking the tires at Ozark, but the rumor I heard at the time was that they wanted the planes, not the people. I never put much credence in that, but US and OZ would have made a nice combo, at the time.

Not sure if it was mentioned above, but PA and Braniff 2 also talked a bit, but PA realized that version of Braniff brought little to the table. They needed a bigger domestic partner.

Another rumor I heard from Ozark folks at the time, but there was never any mention of it in the trades that I recall, was that OZ was looking to buy Midway when ML was knee-deep in that Metrolink/Express split personality phase. Again, pure rumor.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: MAS777
Posted 2013-01-06 15:42:13 and read 7145 times.

Qantas and Malaysia Airlines considered a merger around 2007 but never moved forward. This was re-explored by Alan Joyce more recently but talks eventually failed with both parties agreeing only on QF to sponsor MH into Oneworld... which will occur on 1st Feb.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Phen
Posted 2013-01-06 15:43:26 and read 7147 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 42):
If this was the third bid when was the second Ryanair bid made. I can find no reference to it.

FR made a second attempt in December 2008 which failed - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7757971.stm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 42):
Indeed as recently as the 29 December the "Irish Examiner" published an article "Minister sees the light on Ryanair Aer Lingus offer".

That article seems to be a letter from a reader in Dublin and from reading it, it would seem to me that the author is in fact saying the opposite to what you infer from it - he is saying the Minister saw the light and came out with the statement that the government would not sell: "It would seem that Minister Varadkar has heard this call and is alert to the consequences of a Ryanair takeover of Aer Lingus. He will need to carefully monitor the situation at EU level and ensure that he charters a steady course for the indigenous Irish airline that is Aer Lingus." Sounds like the author is glad that the takeover has failed, no?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion...anair-aer-lingus-offer-218046.html

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Skyguy
Posted 2013-01-06 16:01:51 and read 6985 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 32):
Back in the 1993, Swissair, Scandinavian (SAS), KLM, and Austrian announced a merger agreement called "Alcazar."

It progressed until the Swiss court rejected it entirely. It was one of the major events which pushed for the failed expansion plan in Swissair.

The failure of this proposed merger spawned the seeds that eventually resulted in the first major airline alliance, Star Alliance, as a way for airlines to work together and mutually benefit without having to buy stakes in each other or merger and draw the scrutiny of regulators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcazar_(airline)

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: doulasc
Posted 2013-01-06 16:09:43 and read 6906 times.

I do remember around 1987 I was living in South Florida and Braniff-2 and Pan Am talking about a merger.
Braniff-2 was going to Buy Pan Am and Braniff was to be the surviving name,I remember reading that if this
merger goes through it will be a sad day for Pan Am.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-06 16:18:59 and read 6834 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):
United-US Airways in 2000, with the DCA ops were going to be spun off into a new airline (that had an AMR investment) called DC Air.

Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: WALmsp
Posted 2013-01-06 16:54:32 and read 6558 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 68):
I heard that in the mid 60s, DL and CO were in talks for a merger, but the sticking point was deciding who the surviving carrier was to be. Neither Woolman at DL and Six at CO were willing to give in.

Same story going round regarding WA and CO. WA won the coin toss; Six backed out. Don't know if it's true, but a good story nonetheless.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-06 17:09:41 and read 6458 times.

Anybody interested in the SQ and MU merge proposal? I think that might be the largest opportunity in SQ's history.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-06 18:43:16 and read 5824 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 74):
Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.

Ironically, three years later, DH decided to stop being affiliated with UA (and DL) as part of UA's Chapter 11 proceedings and fly solo as Independence Air. We all know how well that worked out.  

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2013-01-06 18:58:38 and read 5781 times.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 76):

Air China has too much of a say in the merger and the Government has too much control. Also, CX really doesn't want it.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Tomassjc
Posted 2013-01-06 20:06:59 and read 5662 times.

An AeroMexico-Mexicana merger was proposed a few times. Once after the fall of the Peso in the early 80s, when the companies instead cooperated on routes to alleviate competition. AM eventually went into bankruptcy in 1988 and reemerged a smaller company. A merger was discussed again in the early 90s, when AeroMexico held control of Mexicana. Then later in the decade when a holding group (Cintra) was formed to control AM, MX and AeroPeru.

Rumors were always flying that AM and MX would become one someday, and look who survived!

Tomas SJC

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2013-01-06 21:59:27 and read 5542 times.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 63):
Quoting flyjoe (Reply 49):
I completely forgot about the UA/HP thing.

Yep, UA wanted additional Airbus to fight MetroJet and US at IAD at the time. Then Wolf came calling offering US for the taking.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2013-01-07 08:54:27 and read 5185 times.

After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL. I've read that DL wanted $5 / share more than NW was willing to pay.

Of course, DL went on to buy WA, NW went on to buy Republic, and DL, WA, NW, and RC wound up merging in the end.

In the 1950s, before Northeast was awarded routes to Florida, DL agreed to merge with Northeast. The CAB did not approve the merger, and DL wound up merging with Chicago & Southern instead. Two decades later, DL finally consummated their merger with NE.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-07 09:19:35 and read 5151 times.

NW was planning to buy the original Midway Airlines (ML). Then, NW did a due dilligence and didn't like what it saw. It backed out, and ML wound up filing for bankruptcy.

NW and ML were competing on MDW-MSP. I'm not sure if NW had started service on MDW-DTW, which was one of ML's orginal routes.

Besides ML's large operation at MDW, NW would have gotten a good-sized PHL operation (buying the old EA operation at PHL is what got ML in financial troubles) and slots into HPN (which ML acquired with the Air Florida merger).

ML had DC-9s and MD-80s, which NW was also flying. The oddballs would have been the old Air Florida 732s.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-07 12:21:45 and read 5100 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 78):
Air China has too much of a say in the merger and the Government has too much control. Also, CX really doesn't want it.

In return, China Eastern acquired Shanghai Airlines and kicked the Star Alliance out of SHA  

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2013-01-07 12:34:30 and read 5070 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 74):
Related to all this was Atlantic Coast acquiring PSA, Allegheny, and Piedmont.

Don't know where you got this info from but here is the chronological list of Allegheny/US Air, PSA and Piedmont.

1979 : Allegheny changes its name to USAir to reflect its expanding network.
1987 : Pacific Southwest Airlines of San Diego becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of USAir Group in May.
Piedmont Airlines, becomes a subsidiary of USAir Group in November 1987.
1988 : PSA is merged into USAir.
1989 : Piedmont is integrated into USAir,

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/about.../pressroom/history/chronology.html

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-07 12:57:51 and read 5020 times.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 84):
Don't know where you got this info from but here is the chronological list of Allegheny/US Air, PSA and Piedmont.

1979 : Allegheny changes its name to USAir to reflect its expanding network.
1987 : Pacific Southwest Airlines of San Diego becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of USAir Group in May.
Piedmont Airlines, becomes a subsidiary of USAir Group in November 1987.
1988 : PSA is merged into USAir.
1989 : Piedmont is integrated into USAir,

I'm referring to today's Allegheny. Piedmont, and PSA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/bu...al-to-buy-3-regional-airlines.html

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: Mainliner
Posted 2013-01-07 17:37:13 and read 4887 times.

I read a recent interview with Ed Colodny, former CEO of US, saying that US was in merger talks with CO in the 90's. I hadn't heard this one before.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-07 17:43:09 and read 4871 times.

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 86):
I read a recent interview with Ed Colodny, former CEO of US, saying that US was in merger talks with CO in the 90's. I hadn't heard this one before.

Neither have I, so I presume this was before Gordon Bethune became CEO of CO.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-01-07 20:30:25 and read 4766 times.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 81):
After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL.

Exactly what time period are we talking about, here? PA sold the Pacific operation to UA in April of '85 and DL announced the merger with Western in September of '86. DL was doing very well financially around this time so I can't imagine that NW was doing any better than DL was.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2013-01-08 06:41:50 and read 4572 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 88):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 81):
After PA sold their Pacific routes to UA, DL and Northwest came very close to merging, because NW needed more domestic feed to fight UA. NW would have taken over DL, because NW was much stronger financially than DL.

Exactly what time period are we talking about, here? PA sold the Pacific operation to UA in April of '85 and DL announced the merger with Western in September of '86. DL was doing very well financially around this time so I can't imagine that NW was doing any better than DL was.

Fall 1985, prior to the RC / NW deal.

Although DL was doing well, NW was doing just as well, and had less debt on their balance sheet (a legacy of Don Nyrop).

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: 1stfl94
Posted 2013-01-08 10:28:11 and read 4413 times.

A few more I can think of

VS-BMI- plenty of discussions in the search when this became a possibility and why it never happened
VS-Dan Air- Virgin were on the verge of a deal with Dan Air but pulled out at the last minute leaving BA to take them over
BA-KLM tie up that nearly happened in 2000/2001

B.Cal had a few merger proposals during 1986/1987 before merging with BA. They had an offer from British Midland which they rejected, another from Air Europe and looked into a tie up with UTA French Airlines. SAS was the final competitor but lost out.

Topic: RE: Proposed Airline Mergers That Never Happened
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-01-09 19:54:14 and read 3989 times.

Way back in the day, there was talk several times about an Eastern National merger. I'm not sure who would have been the surviving carrier.


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