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Topic: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-06 13:55:13 and read 13167 times.

According to airlineroute, Ethiopian Airlines will be opening up their first route to South America, 3x/week starting June 1 2013. The routing will be ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU-LFW-ADD. 767-300ER.

Schedule as follows;

ET506 ADD1045 – 1300LFW1430 – 2000GIG2130 – 2225GRU 763 136
ET507 GRU0050 – 1130LFW1230 – 2100ADD 763 247

Source: http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/06/et-grugig-jun13/

I guess a congratulations is in order to ET for starting their first service to South America!

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-01-06 13:57:31 and read 13185 times.

Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-01-06 14:01:32 and read 13157 times.

Usually I'm all for nonstops between South America and Africa but this sounds rough. I'm not sure KP with its small fleet can even cobble enough connections at LFW to fill a 763. Hot routing though!

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: af086
Posted 2013-01-06 14:02:39 and read 13123 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!

Actually two stops from GIG to ADD (GRU and LFW). As far as landing times in Brazil are concerned this new schedule is actually better than the old one (it landed at GRU at 3am leaving to Africa at 5am) allowing more connections but still.

It will be tough for ET to pull this one off.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-06 14:03:19 and read 13124 times.

Coming from GRU it's only one stop via LFW. Going there it's two stop.

Given the limited competition, if the market is there, I think they may do alright on this route, despite the multi-stop. The other options are via europe, middle east, or south africa. none of those would save time over this routing.

'902

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-06 14:06:26 and read 13082 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013..

It appears to be a triangular route with the GIG stop in one direction only. Permits both major markets in Brazil to be served on one flight most efficiently. GRU is 2 stops westbound and 1 stop eastbound. GIG is the opposite.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-01-06 14:10:54 and read 13031 times.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):

There is no limited competition... EK, EY, SA, TK, QR all serve GRU non-stop and pretty much serve any destination that can be reached with ET via ADD. Unless I am missing something and there is a huge O&D between Brazil and Ethiopia.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-01-06 14:11:38 and read 13033 times.

Nice one. I always thought it would be KQ first to South America.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-06 14:13:15 and read 13008 times.

Ethiopian owns ASKY airlines which is based in lome so I have a feeling their emphasis is partially on TOgo based traffic since ASKY can't operate long hul they need to use the Ethiopian brand.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-01-06 14:20:14 and read 12930 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):

In that case it would make a lot more sense (I assume they have 5th freedom rights). This A-SKY Airlines serves a good number of destinations from Lome, Togo:

Abidjan
Abuja
Accra
Bamako
Brazzaville
Conakry
Cotonou
Dakar
Douala
Freetown
Kinshasa
Lagos
Libreville
Monrovia
N'Djamena
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Yaoundé

An interesting option then to fly to West Africa from Brazil and further LATAM instead of flying via Europe or SA. Though they don't serve any former Portuguese colony such as Bissau, Luanda or Cape Verde.

[Edited 2013-01-06 14:44:50]

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: AF022
Posted 2013-01-06 15:16:45 and read 12684 times.

Crazy routing. Why is the arrival so late in GRU, however? Surely they could have scheduled it earlier.

Are there slot problems?

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-06 15:31:57 and read 12603 times.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 10):
Why is the arrival so late in GRU, however? Surely they could have scheduled it earlier.

See Reply 9. When I look at some of their A-Sky subsidiary's schedules to/from LFW, the schedule of the new GIG/GRU flight appears to designed to maximize connectivity at LFW.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: United787
Posted 2013-01-06 16:14:33 and read 12434 times.

Why the stop in LFW? Does the route need the additional pax from Togo? Or is it a fuel stop? If the later, why not use a 787?

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: tymnbalewne
Posted 2013-01-06 16:32:47 and read 12355 times.

Quoting United787 (Reply 12):
Why the stop in LFW? Does the route need the additional pax from Togo? Or is it a fuel stop? If the later, why not use a 787?

As noted above, ET owns a subsidiary named ASKY which is based at LFW. ASKY can provide additional feed to the ET flight.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-01-07 02:11:10 and read 10443 times.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
Given the limited competition, if the market is there, I think they may do alright on this route, despite the multi-stop.

I agree, I think ET is trying to prove there is market and then they can weigh their options.
Interesting also that they have decided at least in this current phase to focus on the West African feed. East Africa (other than ADD) to GIG or GRU is just not attractive at all. for example:
NBO-ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
vs.
NBO-DXB-GRU
Plus it is a 763ER. Which would you take?

On the other hand, LOS-LFW-GIG-GRU is not bad compared to other alternatives.

Congrats to ET nonetheless. They cannot afford to bet the farm on this - prove the route and then optimize is the prudent approach it looks like they have chosen.

[Edited 2013-01-07 02:14:06]

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-01-07 03:14:31 and read 10118 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 9):
In that case it would make a lot more sense (I assume they have 5th freedom rights). This A-SKY Airlines serves a good number of destinations from Lome, Togo:

Abidjan
Abuja
Accra
Bamako
Brazzaville
Conakry
Cotonou
Dakar
Douala
Freetown
Kinshasa
Lagos
Libreville
Monrovia
N'Djamena
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Yaoundé

An interesting option then to fly to West Africa from Brazil and further LATAM instead of flying via Europe or SA. Though they don't serve any former Portuguese colony such as Bissau, Luanda or Cape Verde.

This looks like a bold move, and many times, those kind of moves and they pay off, and sometimes not. ET can try to connect passengers via Lome to many other cities, as stated above. I just wonder how strong the S. America to Africa market really is, if flights have struggled in the past between JNB and S. America, how much chance this have? I do like the bold move, and I really hope it does work, but I see a tough road ahead to making it profitable.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: LH422
Posted 2013-01-07 03:35:28 and read 9992 times.

I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-01-07 03:46:13 and read 9890 times.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 16):
I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

Wow that is amazing, since JRO-DAR-AMS-BOS with only 1 change is so much shorter, but ET being in *A helps them at IAD, I know *A is not too strong at GIG or GRU offering limited connectivity beyond the gateway cities ET will serve in Brazil

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Dellatorre
Posted 2013-01-07 03:49:05 and read 9870 times.

I give this delusional adventure a maximum of six months!!

I would like to see what kind of passengers would be willing to face such an odd routing...

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-01-07 04:51:44 and read 9539 times.

Didn't VARIG serve Africa from GIG many, many years ago - Ivory Coast I believe, or was it that they had a crash landing there and that is what was stuck in my head?

I live and work part time in Rio, I wonder if I'd ever get a chance to fly Ethiopian? I'd love to. How is their business product? When I see an Ethiopian aircraft it fascinates me.

If nothing else it futher proves the draw of GRU and now GIG!

I wish them well.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: AsoRock
Posted 2013-01-07 05:40:13 and read 9237 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
I would like to see what kind of passengers would be willing to face such an odd routing...

You seem to assume the route will serve traffic originating from East Africa or Brazil only. Let us remind the readers that VARIG served Nigeria for decades before stopping in the late 1990s. There is simply no attractive alternative from Nigeria to Brazil other than the proposed flight via Lome, and now this will be available thrice weekly (not weekly like VARIG on its flights to Lagos).

Times have changed and freight prospects are very good between Brasil and West Africa. Ethiopian is entering the market betting on West Africa filling half the flights. It remains to be seen whether a 80% load factor in economy and 20% in the premium cabin is sufficient to make money on this route considering the landing fees and so many other overheads to maintain this odd route.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: soups
Posted 2013-01-07 05:45:59 and read 9203 times.

Hope LFW will cope with a new 'drugs route' as west Africa is now a major transit hub from South America to Europe

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2013-01-07 06:16:37 and read 8984 times.

Quoting af086 (Reply 3):
It will be tough for ET to pull this one off.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 6):
There is no limited competition... EK, EY, SA, TK, QR all serve GRU non-stop and pretty much serve any destination that can be reached with ET via ADD.

Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop. Also, do the said airlines also serve GIG?

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 14):
NBO-ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
vs.
NBO-DXB-GRU
Plus it is a 763ER. Which would you take?

An EK 777 does not sound excessively appealing to me. No idea what the ET 763 look like however.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 16):
I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

People will do the extra few stops if the pricing is right, but high yielding business travelers (assuming these still exist in such cost-cutting era) will indeed try to avoid this.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-01-07 06:45:54 and read 8794 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):

Two stops to GRU from ADD??? We are in 2013... !!!
Quoting United787 (Reply 12):

Why the stop in LFW?
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop
ET needs to stop for fuel in LFW. This route is operated by a B763 and ADD-GIG is 9593 km. Factor in the high altitude of ADD (7600 ft), and ET cannot carry any meaningful payload non stop to Brazil with the B763.

Same reason why ET stops in FCO on its way to IAD and YYZ. On certain days when payload is light, the two routes do operate non stop, but this is with the 77L or 787, which have much better takeoff performance and range than the 763 that will operate to Brazil.

Even the return leg from GRU to ADD would be almost impossible non stop for fully loaded B763, (9931 km GC route, meaning a 10,500km+ route in real life, if not more). Factor in the IFR reserves needed, non direct routing over the Atlantic and Africa, and lack of close by alternates, and you soon realize the stop in LFW on the return is needed as well. On the up side, they might tap into any LFW-Brazil-LFW traffic that might arise, if they have 5th freedom on the route.

If the route were operated by a 77L or 787, the eastbound could surely be operated non stop GRU-ADD.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-01-07 07:06:48]

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: af086
Posted 2013-01-07 07:55:05 and read 8317 times.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
Yeah but maybe not so much out of LFW, explaining the stop. Also, do the said airlines also serve GIG?

Of the mentioned airlines only EK serves GIG.

QR, EY, SA and TK no not fly there.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: baguy
Posted 2013-01-07 08:41:16 and read 8294 times.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
An EK 777 does not sound excessively appealing to me. No idea what the ET 763 look like however.

Well let's just say the 6 1/2 hours I spent on ADD-LHR was quite enough.. although the outbound a/c was not so bad. I think their 763s come from a fair few different sources IIRC and there's a lot of variation - 3 a/c have PTVs, the rest have none (and the a/c i was on had no tvs at all!)

BAguy

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Amexair
Posted 2013-01-07 10:04:32 and read 7779 times.

I believe originally it was meant for a direct route ADD-GRU using the 77L with perhaps a stop in west Africa for the west-bound route. Based on what I can see now, I think ET has really seen the potential of maximizing the ASKY connections in that area and adding GIG, will most likely assure the 767 will take-off with full pax.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/06/et-grugig-jun13/

airlinerroute shows another interesting fact. I'm not a ticket-er or anything but it does seem as though they will be using a 737 for the ADD-LFW sector. Does that mean they'll have a 763 stationed there at Lome or will it be an ASKY 737 that'll cover that route?

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-01-07 10:22:03 and read 7783 times.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 18):
I give this delusional adventure a maximum of six months!!

We will check back with you in 6 months. Since West Africa to Brazil is not well served today, I say this "delusional adventure" will work out.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 23):
ET needs to stop for fuel in LFW. This route is operated by a B763 and ADD-GIG is 9593 km. Factor in the high altitude of ADD (7600 ft), and ET cannot carry any meaningful payload non stop to Brazil with the B763.

I believe they expect most of their pax to come from West Africa, not from ADD or East Africa, hence the use of a LFW stop. They may even use the ADD-LFW leg as the daily feed to LFW. East Africa to Brazil is an added bonus, if I read this correctly.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-01-07 11:09:55 and read 7544 times.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 14):
East Africa (other than ADD) to GIG or GRU is just not attractive at all. for example:
NBO-ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
vs.
NBO-DXB-GRU
Plus it is a 763ER. Which would you take?

The routing is not great, but I have to say I'd take a B763 with a 2-3-2 configuration over EK's ten-abreast 777s any day of the week!   

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-07 11:43:43 and read 7351 times.

Whatever happened to KQs plan to serve GRU?

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: incitatus
Posted 2013-01-07 13:52:21 and read 6746 times.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 18):
I give this delusional adventure a maximum of six months!!



I wouldn't go as far, but I am not quite sure there is a market.

Tourists from West Africa into Brazil? Maybe a few. The other way around close to none.

Then trade. Nigeria is a big trading partner with Brazil, but most of it is oil and oil-related products. Nigeria purchases food from Brazil, but not a lot. Then going down the list of trading partners, it gets very small very soon. Ghana also buys food from Brazil - 300 million USD per year. Senegal buys more than 100 million. Next is Ivory Coast and the others not worth mentioning. Even Ghana is a drop in the bucket for Brazilian trade at 250 billion USD per year.

I am not aware of significant Brazilian investment north of Equatorial Guinea.

Possibly there will be some oil traffic from Nigeria.

There will be fairly convenient service from Bamako and other cities to Rio/SP but mostly no takers. Also, Brazilian trade has stagnated recently. This will be a tough route even though it is much more convenient than alternatives from West Africa to Brazil today.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-07 13:59:03 and read 6733 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
Didn't VARIG serve Africa from GIG many, many years ago

Until GRU opened, all Varig longhaul flights used GIG as the hub. They served half a dozen points in Africa over the years, including JNB/CPT/LOS.

Pan Am also operated MIA-GIG-JNB for a short period in the late 1970s using both the 707 and then 747SP with 5th freedom rights GIG-JNB. I think that flight was only once a week.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-01-07 17:19:33 and read 6555 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):

Pan Am also operated MIA-GIG-JNB for a short period in the late 1970s using both the 707 and then 747SP with 5th freedom rights GIG-JNB. I think that flight was only once a week

I know SA used GIG as a stopping point for US to SA services, but always thought PA used West Africa enroute to JNB.
But looking at departedflights you are right, but it was 1979.

This is all I can find:

http://www.departedflights.com/PA042979.html

http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973.html

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2013-01-07 18:41:57 and read 6450 times.

This seems too adventurous, the ASKY base throws an interesting component..but I just don't see it...the loads will be horrible..
Only a 100% state-owned airline could dare such a move...

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: BRJ
Posted 2013-01-07 20:09:26 and read 6391 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):
Until GRU opened, all Varig longhaul flights used GIG as the hub. They served half a dozen points in Africa over the years, including JNB/CPT/LOS.

Although somewhat off topic, to piggy back here, VARIG flew DC-10 service once a week to Lagos. Made the trip back in 1988. We left Lagos late Monday morning, arriving into GIG in the afternoon. The return left GIG Sunday night and arrived in LOS mid morning. Was a nice ride in FC int those yellowish gold flower seats.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: dkny
Posted 2013-01-07 22:27:05 and read 6286 times.

Quoting Amexair (Reply 26):
airlinerroute shows another interesting fact. I'm not a ticket-er or anything but it does seem as though they will be using a 737 for the ADD-LFW sector. Does that mean they'll have a 763 stationed there at Lome or will it be an ASKY 737 that'll cover that route?

If you look on the ET website the flight is the same 763 from ADD all the way to Brazil. The 737 to Lome is on the days there is no flight to Brazil

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: BRJ
Posted 2013-01-08 07:02:47 and read 5969 times.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
Quoting LH422 (Reply 16):
I met a student at Kilimanjaro Airport who was on her way to BOS. The routing was JRO-MBA-ADD-FCO-IAD-BOS, mostly on ET. I was under the impression that this sort of complex routing is somehow OK for Africa, whereas elsewhere people would avoid these flights at all costs.

People will do the extra few stops if the pricing is right, but high yielding business travelers (assuming these still exist in such cost-cutting era) will indeed try to avoid this.

I agree with you that these types of routings are somewhat accepted. Granted it's a new era in travel to a certain extent, but it has always been very common for flights to hop around W Africa before going north and east. For example, I used to live in Lagos back in the late 80s/ early 90s and we flew ET to NBO. The flight came from ABJ I believe, stopped in LOS, DLA, and NBO before continuing to ADD. And if I am not mistaken, these types of ET routings were still fairly common up until the creation of ASKY. Although, I would imagine it also had to do with fleet size and utilization.

Even today, ME flies BEY-LOS-ACC-ABJ and return.

I would imagine brand loyalty would sway some to make the journey, despite the stops. And let's face it, most of us A*netters would love a routing like this lol.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-08 15:37:56 and read 5742 times.

A quite daring move from ET's part.
Air-routes between West Africa and Brazil are almost non-existent, can only think of TACV SID-FOR (I wouldn't consider LAD Angola that much as West Africa but southern Africa) so that LFW stop and ASKY array of destinations in that part of the world would definitely dampen the risks of the ADD-Brazil route.
If ASKY is to add LAD, TMS and SSG to its network, that ET route could become more attractive for Brazilians.
Is ET flight going to bear AV code-share?

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: abrelosojos
Posted 2013-01-09 11:54:14 and read 5353 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
Nice one. I always thought it would be KQ first to South America.

= KQ's network strategy reminds me of IT's. Copy and paste what the "other" (ET/9W) respectively has done. As much as I admire how KQ has been run, their network planning department lacks any creativity.

BTW, is the ET schedule loaded? I can't seem to book it?

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-09 13:08:44 and read 5264 times.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 38):
BTW, is the ET schedule loaded? I can't seem to book it?

A,

All the information I have is just from that airlineroute.net posting, and it seems that it is loaded into the GDS, however I do not have access to it. It's also not showing up on their interactive route map - which is provided using the OAG. I checked a random date - July 1st (Monday), and the only routes that show up involve interline connections.

If you do end up flying this route, I am really looking forward to one of your amazing trip reports.

Best,
Mark

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-01-09 13:34:10 and read 5216 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 37):
If ASKY is to add LAD, TMS and SSG to its network, that ET route could become more attractive for Brazilians.
Is ET flight going to bear AV code-share?

LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG?

I thought Equatorial Guinea has a Spanish history, not Portuguese...

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: kiribati
Posted 2013-01-09 13:44:43 and read 5220 times.

My in-laws live in Pointe Noire, Congo, and the connection to go to Brazil where their daughter lives is interesting and I have been checking airlineroute.net every day for this news. The connection from PNR via LFW is indeed great, at least from the timetable. But it gets too late to GIG to catch a flight to BSB the same day, where my sister in law lives.

And I am especially eager to know what the prices will look like.

I saw the route on Availability on www.amadeus.net, but not the return GRU - ADD, interestingly.

This is the third airline to connect South America to Africa if I am correct.

Besides this I was often wondering at the TAAG routes to GIG and GRU. Is there that much business/leisure between these two countries? Especially considering the fact that Angola doesn't seem very easy to connect to other destinations in Africa (facilities, security, visa for Angola in case of stopover, etc).

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-09 13:50:34 and read 5180 times.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 38):
BTW, is the ET schedule loaded? I can't seem to book it?

I expect it's all subject to government approvals. Is there even a bilateral between Ethiopia and Brazil currently? I would doubt it but have no idea.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 40):

LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG?

I thought Equatorial Guinea has a Spanish history, not Portuguese...

Yes it was a Spanish colony (Spanish Guinea) until granted independence in 1968.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: steex
Posted 2013-01-09 13:58:26 and read 5162 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
Yes it was a Spanish colony (Spanish Guinea) until granted independence in 1968.

It does have Portuguese history as well, though you have to go back quite a bit further. Portugal ceded most of the area to Spain in 1778. However, even today, Portuguese is recognized as an official language in Equatorial Guinea alongside Spanish and French.

Now, regarding whether or not Equatorial Guinea has any significant air demand to/from Brazil, I have no idea.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-01-09 14:00:24 and read 5154 times.

Quoting kiribati (Reply 41):
Besides this I was often wondering at the TAAG routes to GIG and GRU. Is there that much business/leisure between these two countries? Especially considering the fact that Angola doesn't seem very easy to connect to other destinations in Africa (facilities, security, visa for Angola in case of stopover, etc).

There are a lot of Angolan immigrants to Brazil. And the fact that the two countries share a common language generates strong ties between the two.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-10 01:21:12 and read 4973 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 40):
LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG?

As far as I understand SSG is a big oil destination. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but there are a lot of oil companies in GIG. This connection could prove to have some lucrative business passengers.

'902

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: 787Kq
Posted 2013-01-10 06:16:48 and read 4801 times.

Good luck to ET on this creative routing and building up a real West African hub. Although the airline is lacking in many areas, its strategy is light years ahead of KQ, its closest rival. They come up with better routes and aircraft, get the advantage of being early in a market, etc, and don't consider a poor brand (Jambo Jet) as something for the future. Happy for ET, sad for KQ.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: incitatus
Posted 2013-01-10 07:07:50 and read 4746 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 40):
LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG?

Brazilian construction companies have several projects in Equatorial Guinea.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: deSCL
Posted 2013-01-10 07:13:04 and read 4740 times.

Why dont they try ADD-GRU nonstop alowing connections from the Middle east and Asia? I bet this market is much more important and lucrative than Brazil - West Africa, and they will also cover East Africa (Kenya is quite popular among south americans).

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-10 07:27:55 and read 4720 times.

Quoting deSCL (Reply 48):
Why dont they try ADD-GRU nonstop alowing connections from the Middle east and Asia? I bet this market is much more important and lucrative than Brazil - West Africa, and they will also cover East Africa (Kenya is quite popular among south americans).

Given that EK, EY, QR already fly to GRU, I would think the competition on Middle East - GRU is pretty strong. Not sure if they could compete against those 3. Thoughts?

'902

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-10 07:42:34 and read 4684 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 40):
LAD and TMS I get, but why SSG?

I thought Equatorial Guinea has a Spanish history, not Portuguese...

I think this quote would answer your question:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 45):
As far as I understand SSG is a big oil destination. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but there are a lot of oil companies in GIG. This connection could prove to have some lucrative business passengers.

It's not a language issue, is a oil- and construction-business related one.

Quoting kiribati (Reply 41):
Besides this I was often wondering at the TAAG routes to GIG and GRU. Is there that much business/leisure between these two countries? Especially considering the fact that Angola doesn't seem very easy to connect to other destinations in Africa (facilities, security, visa for Angola in case of stopover, etc).

DT Brazilan routes are doing just fine. SA also gets a piece of that LAD-Brazil traffic.
But I still wonder why MPM hasn't gotten a non-stop to Brazil (GRU) yet. If MPM-Brazil isn't enough to sustain it, all the connecting traffic it could get from JNB and DUR may help the loads.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: kiribati
Posted 2013-01-10 10:53:33 and read 4581 times.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 49):
Given that EK, EY, QR already fly to GRU, I would think the competition on Middle East - GRU is pretty strong. Not sure if they could compete against those 3. Thoughts?

I agree with you. I mean I have no idea how they will perform, but I like to think that the West Africa - Brazil route they have has a lot of potential precisely for folks from West Africa, and much less for other areas where other airlines can serve Brazil better. It takes really much longer to do West Africa - GIG via another Middle Eastern hub.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2013-01-10 12:28:03 and read 4514 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 29):
Whatever happened to KQs plan to serve GRU?

According to this great CAPA article, GRU is 12+ months away - 3x week using a 787
Source: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-inhabited-continent-by-2017-71784

Quoting deSCL (Reply 48):

Why dont they try ADD-GRU nonstop alowing connections from the Middle east and Asia? I bet this market is much more important and lucrative than Brazil - West Africa, and they will also cover East Africa (Kenya is quite popular among south americans).

I guess they believe they can get more out of West Africa. But there was an interview with ET's CEO where he mentioned the potential for a Brazil-Asia routing via ADD. It may still come but not now.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 49):
Given that EK, EY, QR already fly to GRU, I would think the competition on Middle East - GRU is pretty strong. Not sure if they could compete against those 3. Thoughts?

Tough to come out the winner against these 3 (and add TK in the mix as well). We will see with time if they think they have a play in this space.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 37):
Air-routes between West Africa and Brazil are almost non-existent

It is always surprising to me how little Brazilian presence there is on the African continent. The very last country amongst the BRICs on the continent. Perhaps that will change too.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: C010T3
Posted 2013-01-10 16:16:34 and read 4375 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
I expect it's all subject to government approvals. Is there even a bilateral between Ethiopia and Brazil currently? I would doubt it but have no idea.

Yes, since 2010:

http://www2.anac.gov.br/arquivos/pdf/acordosBilaterais/E/Etiopia.pdf

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-01-10 17:09:12 and read 4343 times.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
I always thought it would be KQ first to South America.

What? The first African airline to Sth America? Surely that honour went to TAAG-Angola or SA?!

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-10 17:55:32 and read 4307 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 54):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
I always thought it would be KQ first to South America.

What? The first African airline to Sth America? Surely that honour went to TAAG-Angola or SA?!

SAA started their first service to both South America and North America on February 23, 1969, with one 707 a week JNB-GIG-JFK. I don't think TAAG began service to Brazil until sometime in the 1980s.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-01-10 23:53:08 and read 4208 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 54):
What? The first African airline to Sth America? Surely that honour went to TAAG-Angola or SA?!

I think he meant that between ET and KQ, he would have expected to see KQ expand to South America first.

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: LatinPlane
Posted 2013-01-11 00:05:24 and read 4203 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 55):
SAA started their first service to both South America and North America on February 23, 1969, with one 707 a week JNB-GIG-JFK. I don't think TAAG began service to Brazil until sometime in the 1980s.

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TAAG started flying scheduled flights between Luanda and Rio on June of 1985, but the airline had already been operating charters between the two points for many years since the late 70s.

[Edited 2013-01-11 00:06:22]

Topic: RE: Ethiopian To Start ADD-LFW-GIG-GRU
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-01-11 10:34:13 and read 4015 times.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 54):
What? The first African airline to Sth America? Surely that honour went to TAAG-Angola or SA?!
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 56):
I think he meant that between ET and KQ, he would have expected to see KQ expand to South America first.

Thank you.


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