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Topic: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2013-01-10 09:10:05 and read 5931 times.

This morning driving into work I saw the morning BA 772 banking out of BOS above the Financial District for the early 8am to LHR. With AA also having a morning departure to LHR (currently a 757) which will be dropped in the coming months, it got me thinking about the new DL/VS relationship. I was curious about the two possible scenarios and curious others' feedback:

1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.

2). Or, does anyone think DL will keep it's current schedules (as will VS) and just add a morning 757, basically keeping the same current capacity with AA?

Personally, I think DL having a morning flight on a 757 to connect with any potential evening VS flights would be a strategic move. Wouldn't this give access to flights to JNB, CPT, HKG, DEL, BOM?

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-01-10 10:04:54 and read 5718 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.
Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
Personally, I think DL having a morning flight on a 757 to connect with any potential evening VS flights would be a strategic move. Wouldn't this give access to flights to JNB, CPT, HKG, DEL, BOM?

A day flight BOS-LHR wou;d indeed allow connections for DEL/ACC/DXB etc.... woudl probably land too late to connect ot JNB/CPT though.

BOM is already well connected by the current BOS flight with VS ie it is a day departure EX LHR not a night one like DEL.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-01-10 10:18:53 and read 5653 times.

What is the likelihood of DL yielding this route to its partner and VS upping to 2x daily BOS-LHR?  

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-01-10 10:36:05 and read 5571 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
1). DL re-times their current BOS-LHR from evening to morning, replacing AA's flight and letting VS upgauge to daily 744 to handle those passengers.
Quoting ASA (Reply 2):
What is the likelihood of DL yielding this route to its partner and VS upping to 2x daily BOS-LHR?

The 800 lb. gorilla EK is most likely coming to BOS. May want to keep the capacity low but the morning DL 757 may not be a bad idea.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: higherflyer
Posted 2013-01-10 11:35:13 and read 5361 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Thread starter):
2). Or, does anyone think DL will keep it's current schedules (as will VS) and just add a morning 757, basically keeping the same current capacity with AA?
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
May want to keep the capacity low but the morning DL 757 may not be a bad idea.

The problem with the 757 on the route for DL is that one of the major marketing initiatives for LHR is the all lie-flat product in the front cabin. The 757 doesn't have the lie-flat beds. When DL was flying the 757 BOS-LHR, the front cabin wasn't sold (it was considered an all Y flight).

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2013-01-10 11:58:22 and read 5281 times.

Quoting higherflyer (Reply 4):
When DL was flying the 757 BOS-LHR, the front cabin wasn't sold (it was considered an all Y flight).


So they've already broken the trend of all lie-flat to LHR then? If there's a market for it and money to be made, what would stop them from doing it again?

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: VS11
Posted 2013-01-10 12:10:15 and read 5234 times.

I think the best approach would be to let VS serve BOS with 2 A330 lights. A later flight into BOS, which would be the morning flight into LHR.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-01-10 12:26:05 and read 5178 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 5):
So they've already broken the trend of all lie-flat to LHR then?

No, it's just speculation, here on A.net.  

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2013-01-10 12:27:29 and read 5178 times.

Quoting VS11 (Reply 6):

I think the best approach would be to let VS serve BOS with 2 A330 lights. A later flight into BOS, which would be the morning flight into LHR.

That would be sweet. Not that long ago both AA and BA's morning flights were on 772's. My guess is that the market is there for another larger aircraft and the A333 might be it. However, I'd be happy for DL to bring back a 2nd daily on a 757 and run it in the morning.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: prost
Posted 2013-01-10 12:32:50 and read 5128 times.

I thought DL was putting lie flats on their trans atlantic 757s:

http://thepointsguy.com/2012/11/lie-...to-delta-transcontinental-flights/

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: VS11
Posted 2013-01-10 13:22:08 and read 4946 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 8):
That would be sweet. Not that long ago both AA and BA's morning flights were on 772's. My guess is that the market is there for another larger aircraft and the A333 might be it. However, I'd be happy for DL to bring back a 2nd daily on a 757 and run it in the morning.

A refurbished DL 757 will make sense for the morning LHR flight. Summertime, they should be able to fill in bigger planes though.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: panamair
Posted 2013-01-10 13:47:13 and read 4831 times.

Quoting prost (Reply 9):
I thought DL was putting lie flats on their trans atlantic 757s:

Yes, all 18 75Es will have flat-beds, but they won't even start till 2014, which is just as well, since they don't expect full approvals on both sides of the pond for the DL-VS JV until the end of 2013 anyway, which means any JV metal-neutral type of flying between the two won't happen till 2014...

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-01-10 15:05:53 and read 4655 times.

One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-01-11 02:45:55 and read 3717 times.

I think it's funny that effective 3/31 with the summer European flight season starting, Delta is changing their LHR flight number to 11/12, same as VS's from BOS.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-01-11 04:53:15 and read 3521 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 12):
One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

I think traffic will be going down slightly once they arrive but then rebound if global air traffic continues to climb. Can anyone recall off hand if BOS-LHR seats are lower for 2013 as compared to 2012, as well as comparing 2011 to 2012.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see if in 10-20 years if we are having this same conversation about an African carrier coming into BOS and how it would affect BA/LH/AF and TK/EK/QR.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2013-01-11 05:35:40 and read 3310 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
Can anyone recall off hand if BOS-LHR seats are lower for 2013 as compared to 2012, as well as comparing 2011 to 2012.

I think lower:

3x 757s > one more additional BA flight (777 or 747, doesn't matter...still a net loss)
VS went from a A340-600 to an A330...that's a loss, too, right?
DL went from 2x daily to 1x daily.

So my guess is that 2013 will have fewer seats than 2012.

Maybe Aer Lingus saw this and that's why they added a lot of lift to Ireland....to capture some of the people who really want to go to London.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-01-11 05:46:45 and read 3247 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
The 800 lb. gorilla EK is most likely coming to BOS.

That's all relative and I don't see that affecting DL's/VS's BOS-LHR route all that much. For one, EK doesn't even come close to having the FF base and corporate contracts that DL has on the BOS side. And secondly, DL's/VS's BOS-LHR route is primarily O&D given that DL has little feed at LHR by virtue of it not being a SkyTeam hub, and VS is predominantly a O&D carrier. They don't even serve Europe from LHR. If anything, EK will have an impact on the BOS-AMS (DL) and BOS-CDG (AF) routes.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 12):
One could theorize that, eventually, traffic on the Boston-Heathrow route might plateau as new airlines come in and over-fly the UK entirely. Emirates and Turkish to name two, Qatar a possible third.

I'm not so sure. I believe that international travel to/from Boston is predominantly to/from Europe. That's the traffic that drives BOS-LHR. There's another thread out there about LH's domination of the US-India market that shows how much more of that traffic LH carries over BA, and with AF a distant 3rd. So if anything, LH will be impacted the most in the long run.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
I think traffic will be going down slightly once they arrive but then rebound if global air traffic continues to climb.

Maybe, especially for the LH group (LH and LX), which is the largest carrier connecting BOS to Asia.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: markboston
Posted 2013-01-11 09:37:19 and read 2432 times.

Is AA dropping BOS-LHR entirely? I just checked flights for travel in June and I don't see any flights on AA metal-- everything seems to be operated by BA.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-01-11 09:51:53 and read 2387 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 15):
VS went from a A340-600 to an A330...that's a loss, too, right?

VS usually switch from a 340-300 (winter) to a 340-600 in summer.... though I believe this winter it switched to the higher capacity A330-300 instead of the 340-300.

Topic: RE: DL/VS BOS-LHR Future Strategy
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2013-01-11 11:22:33 and read 2262 times.

With regards to what DL/VS do it will be interesting. DL operates BOS-LHR using one of the slot pairs that AA/BA had to surrender under their ATI deal. It was two flights, but it handed one slot pair back. Now DL could add back a second Daily flight and get the LHR slot from AA/BA. This could either be to make VS/DL 3x Daily on BOS-LHR, or to replace VS on the route with VS reusing the LHR slot for another routes under the VS/DL joint venture.

Quoting markboston (Reply 17):
Is AA dropping BOS-LHR entirely? I just checked flights for travel in June and I don't see any flights on AA metal-- everything seems to be operated by BA.

Yes, this Winter AA operates 3x Daily 757 on BOS-LHR, alongside 3x Daily 772/744 BA flights.
In the Summer this becomes 4xDaily 772/744 on BA. BA drops 1xDaily 744 on LHR-MIA (picked up by AA on the 772 using one of their BOS slots) to add the fourth BOS flight. The other two AA slots are going to US (MIA-CLT-LHR) and DL (DFW-ATL-LHR).


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