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Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: tkfan
Posted 2012-12-22 21:33:57 and read 21277 times.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/22217359.asp

According to this column, Turkish Airlines has finalized the lease of seven Boeing777. They will start to be delivered in May next Year.
Any guess, which B777 were available?? Air India??

Another interesting information, they will take optional A333. Didn't know TK had these Options.

and finally we have talked about TK expanding its lounge facilities abroad. the first one to be finished soon in Moscow Vnukovo. LHR, JFK T1 and CDG to follow

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: kaitak
Posted 2012-12-22 21:39:51 and read 21274 times.

Good news; are these in addition to the 15 already ordered?

That's going to be quite a large fleet!

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: tkfan
Posted 2012-12-22 21:45:01 and read 21236 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):

I guess so. The 20 Boeing 777-300ER ordered will join the fleet from 2014-2017.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-22 21:52:07 and read 21199 times.

Good news for TK! They are one of the fastest growing airlines I've seen in a while.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2012-12-22 22:00:22 and read 21157 times.

They could again be coming from Jet Airways as well. 9W is in the process of taking delivery of A333s, yet there is no sign of any significant longhaul expansion, so the airline has likely excess widebody capacity available. 9W currently has 5 B77Ws leased out to TG, which will gradually be returned as TG's own B77Ws are introduced in the fleet. 9W previously had exactly 7 B77W frames leased out to TK and TG.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: tkfan
Posted 2012-12-22 22:18:52 and read 21073 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
They could again be coming from Jet Airways as well. 9W is in the process of taking delivery of A333s, yet there is no sign of any significant this);" class="badspelling">longhaul expansion, so the airline has likely excess this);" class="badspelling">widebody capacity available. 9W currently has 5 B77Ws leased out to TG, which will gradually be returned as TG's own B77Ws are introduced in the fleet. 9W previously had exactly 7 B77W frames leased out to TK and TG.

Are you sure that 9Ws 77W are for lease again??
This would mean Turkish Airlines is forced to reintroduce First Class. If so, I hope this time it will work better for TK.

On another note, if the rumors of Etihad to take a stake in Jet is true, I have my doubts TK can get those birds.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: CXfirst
Posted 2012-12-22 22:19:21 and read 21071 times.

Quoting tkfan (Thread starter):
LHR, JFK T1 and CDG to follow

LHR, really? I expect them to move into the new T2 when that opens, which has one large common Star Alliance lounge. Why spend all that money for a lounge you will only use in the short-run?

Same applies to CDG really. Isn't the Star lounge sufficient? I guess CDG might have more space designed for dedicated lounges, unlike new T2 at LHR.

-CXfirst

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2012-12-22 22:28:19 and read 21006 times.

Quoting tkfan (Reply 5):
This would mean Turkish Airlines is forced to reintroduce First Class

Air India aircraft also have First Class installed. TK could sell those seats as J if they wanted to avoid costly reconfiguration. A subfleet of 7 identically configured aircraft (I hope we are indeed talking about indentical configurations) would actually be manageable.

I do not see any other sources for these aircraft, at least not if they are to come from a single source. CX and CZ both have 772A models available, but neither of them have 7, and I am not sure that TK would even be interested in these aircraft. EK has 3 + 6 772A and 772ER frames, which will eventually be retired, but that also does not fit the total of 7.

Quoting tkfan (Reply 5):
Are you sure that 9Ws 77W are for lease again??

Well, for sure 9W has not been growing its longhaul network (BRU JFK and DEL MXP cut, nothing new added), while the airline is currently taking delivery of new A333 equipment. So what is to happen when the 5 B77Ws currently on lease to TG are returned?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2012-12-22 23:21:37 and read 20843 times.

These surely are to manage the shortage of equipment until the new orders arrive. IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-12-23 01:24:45 and read 20415 times.

These are surely the 7 77L's AI have that they want to get rid of. I bet TK picked them up at very low lease rates. The F cabin can always be re-configured to TK's requirements.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2012-12-23 01:27:50 and read 20399 times.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
These are surely the 7 77L's AI have that they want to get rid of

AI has a fleet of 8 B77Ls, not all of which were offered for lease. Why would TK take 7 out of 8?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: Northstar80
Posted 2012-12-23 02:21:48 and read 20012 times.

The article says that TK will do modifications (probably change the seats) to the leased planes.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: kaitak
Posted 2012-12-23 02:24:05 and read 19961 times.

Is AI also trying to get rid of some -300ERs?

Would TK be interested in -200LRs?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-23 02:42:55 and read 19738 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8):
These surely are to manage the shortage of equipment until the new orders arrive. IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.

How much more can TK expand at IST? I thought the airport was quite crowded already as is.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: troest
Posted 2012-12-23 04:53:41 and read 18550 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
How much more can TK expand at IST? I thought the airport was quite crowded already as is.

I've been in transit in IST several times now, and it was definitely not the best experience. Rude airport staff and security, bad signage, impossible to find an available seat and rest, and overall an overcrowded airport. I know this is purely subjective, but I prefer to avoid IST at any cost. TK promotes itself as the best airline in Europe, but the moment you set foot in their main hub, that experience goes down the drain.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TK787
Posted 2012-12-23 06:25:37 and read 17670 times.

Expected news.
TK's Kotil past week mentioned they were short 5 WB frames for 2013. I was expecting it could be a mix of 777 and 332s since 332s easier to find.
-3 brand new 77Ws arrive 2014 and 7 more in 2015.
-So these 7 leased frames will be used by TK for about 2-3 years.
-I wonder it makes sense to receive them by next Feb, change the seat configs and be ready in April for IAH and others?
-Maybe TK will use its new subsidiary that makes airplane seats for this.
-Both AI and 9W have First Class, I hope they sell those seats as J and sell business seats as Comfort, instead of putting new seats in.
-Also this could be a good opportunity for TK to test the 77L, maybe Australia??

-And the usual IST situation??
-TK have ready flight crews/techs for another 7 frames or more foreign hiring?

Whatever the case, always exciting to watch TK.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: LLA001
Posted 2012-12-23 09:43:29 and read 15887 times.

I hope they will convert the seat configuration, I hate when they change the seating arrangement due to plane changes last minute,

I have a question, since I live in Istanbul I never passed through Transit at Ataturk Airport. I always see a long line there, do you have to check-in and confirm your transit with someone or is it just the security line to get to departure gates ?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ytz
Posted 2012-12-23 09:44:39 and read 15868 times.

Quoting troest (Reply 14):
I've been in transit in IST several times now, and it was definitely not the best experience. Rude airport staff and security, bad signage, impossible to find an available seat and rest, and overall an overcrowded airport. I know this is purely subjective, but I prefer to avoid IST at any cost. TK promotes itself as the best airline in Europe, but the moment you set foot in their main hub, that experience goes down the drain.

Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.

That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic. And given the reasonably short changeovers, the airline does make up for the airport.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TurkishWings
Posted 2012-12-23 11:24:09 and read 15099 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.

IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: troest
Posted 2012-12-23 11:51:09 and read 14877 times.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 16):
I have a question, since I live in Istanbul I never passed through Transit at Ataturk Airport. I always see a long line there, do you have to check-in and confirm your transit with someone or is it just the security line to get to departure gates ?

In my case I did not have to check-in or re-confirm my onward travel in IST. However, the lines are long at peak hours. Often only two airport guards to check your onward boarding card. There are several things you have to do before you can continue to the departure hall depending on your nationality and destination. Some need to buy a transit visa before proceeding and/or need to go through extra security screening if traveling to the USA, Canada, UK and Israel.

Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic. And given the reasonably short changeovers, the airline does make up for the airport.

With access to TK lounge IST is a whole other experience.

[Edited 2012-12-23 12:17:38]

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2012-12-23 12:24:41 and read 14579 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
That said, coming from North America, I prefer TK and their Comfort Class

Agreed. That was the main selling point for me. IST was not too bad, yes, the staff is not very helpful but they seem overwhelmed by the amount of crowd they have to deal with.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ymincrement
Posted 2012-12-23 12:30:50 and read 14525 times.

I hope they will take out all 34x's and buy more 777's

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-12-23 13:52:18 and read 13856 times.

The think is it won't do TK's long-term image any good as a hub & spoke airline if the transfer hub if IST airport can't handle the huge expansion. EK has grown on the back of DXB's superb facilities for example.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: troest
Posted 2012-12-23 13:59:02 and read 13798 times.

Quoting ymincrement (Reply 21):
I hope they will take out all 34x's and buy more 777's

If TK plans to initiate more destinations to Latin America the 343s can come in handy for hot and high altitude airports.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TK787
Posted 2012-12-23 14:08:28 and read 13700 times.

Quoting troest (Reply 23):
343s can come in handy for hot and high altitude airports.

Might well be the case. 343 are owned aging from 13-20 years old. They might be still in the fleet for another 3-4 years.
Any more ideas where these 7 T7s coming from?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TJCAB
Posted 2012-12-23 14:13:23 and read 14081 times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18):
Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
Agree on most this. Washrooms were disgusting.

IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...

I did this, may this year. Just my experience...

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ytz
Posted 2012-12-23 14:24:28 and read 14020 times.

AI's 8 77Ls would be interesting. Other than that, I'd be curious which airline has this much capacity lying around.

Doesn't bode well for Comfort Class.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-12-23 19:19:29 and read 12669 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8):
IAH, possibly KUL, MEX, CCS, SFO all require additional capacity till 2014. I bet they regret not ordering more back in 2010.

MEX is a big if. I don't see it happening in a long while.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
AI has a fleet of 8 B77Ls, not all of which were offered for lease. Why would TK take 7 out of 8?

Why would TK go for 77Ls? They operate 77Ws. It would not make sense to get the smaller birds IMHO.

Quoting ytz (Reply 17):
I prefer TK and their Comfort Class to anything else across the Atlantic.

Isn't TK phasing out Comfort Class?

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-23 19:34:43 and read 12567 times.

Rumor has it that World Airways is also looking for some 777's to replace their MD-11's

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: TK787
Posted 2012-12-23 19:49:10 and read 12494 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27):
Isn't TK phasing out Comfort Class?

Nothing official, I hope that it doesn't happen.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2012-12-23 20:11:09 and read 12384 times.

This is some interesting yet very TK like development. They waited to order the planes yet they are growing and launching routes, so they shoot first and then aim. I am very curious where these 777's are coming from? 7 is not a small number, the only plausible option is AI and they have 777L's and 3 class ac with first class. TK has its own 777's arriving in 2014 so I don't think they will refurb the planes to TK 777's which leaves us with a new inconsistent product. I hope this won't be the case.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 27):
Quoting TK787 (Reply 29):

Rumor yes, instead of downsizing the ridicilously oversized comfort in favor of ridicilously small business section, we will lose a great Y+ product. More often than not there are no J seats available in most flights with more than half the comfort class empty....

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-12-24 07:12:51 and read 11615 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 30):
instead of downsizing the ridicilously oversized comfort in favor of ridicilously small business section, we will lose a great Y+ product. More often than not there are no J seats available in most flights with more than half the comfort class empty...

I have read excellent reviews on TK's Comfort Class product here on a.net, so hopefully they will only right-size the J- and W-class cabins rather than shedding W.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ytz
Posted 2012-12-25 13:01:06 and read 10908 times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18):
IST can be a big mess for sure but of the million flights I took from IST, I never saw "disgusting" washrooms.. That's a pretty bold statement for such a modern airport...

In a pinch, I decided to use a handicapped single washroom. Light was motion activated and no switch. Kept going on and off. Place stunk of smoke and had cigarette butts in the sink. Floor was dusty and grimy. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

I wasn't impressed.

Rest of IST was nice.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ytz
Posted 2012-12-25 13:06:52 and read 10906 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 31):
I have read excellent reviews on TK's Comfort Class product here on a.net, so hopefully they will only right-size the J- and W-class cabins rather than shedding W.

They could stand to go 8-abreast with one more row in that cabin. So 80 seats instead of 63. That would also let them lower the price a tad.

Topic: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2012-12-28 00:48:43 and read 9959 times.

Anyone have any confirmation regarding where these frames are coming from? Or what other possibilities are there besides AI 777L's?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2012-12-28 09:38:42 and read 9361 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 34):
Anyone have any confirmation regarding where these frames are coming from? Or what other possibilities are there besides AI 777L's?

GECAS

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2012-12-28 23:16:41 and read 8982 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 35):

Thanks for the reply, I understand they will be leased from GECAS, Which TK have a great relationship, but my question was who has these frames now?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2012-12-28 23:26:18 and read 8964 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 36):
Thanks for the reply, I understand they will be leased from GECAS, Which TK have a great relationship, but my question was who has these frames now?

I'm guessing they're some of the 16 GECAS still has on order

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2012-12-28 23:34:57 and read 8944 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 37):
I'm guessing they're some of the 16 GECAS still has on order

No way that we are talking new frames, as these are relatively short term leases in anticipation of TK's newly ordered frames, which will start arriving in late 2014 only. As indicated above, these 7 aircraft can realistically only originate from Air India (77L or 77W, although AI was looking to unload 77Ls and not 77Ws and AI has 8 77L frames, so why would TK only take 7?) or from Jet Airways (leased out frames to TG will start returning). There is always Singapore Airlines, but I cannot imagine TK would be interested in anything SQ has on offer.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: ba319-131
Posted 2012-12-29 00:24:48 and read 8900 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 38):
There is always Singapore Airlines, but I cannot imagine TK would be interested in anything SQ has on offer.

- I don't think SQ are ready to offload 77W's yet, they have more on order yet, it's the 772's and 773's that are slowly on the way out.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-29 01:17:07 and read 8854 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 34):
what other possibilities are there besides AI 777L's?

9W 77Ws.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2012-12-29 09:59:57 and read 8569 times.

Let's look at this a little differently. Does it make sense that if you want capacity and are only doing a short term lease you wait another year and a half to get it and them start taking your own airplanes at the same time? Assuming you take 3 of your own in 2014 that's a large crew requirement in a very short time unless the flight crews come with the leased planes. Having found no articles in English to back up the one that started this topic except for a couple discussing TK leasing back some of their new order, I wonder if there is no lease for 7 additional airplanes.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2012-12-30 02:48:42 and read 8182 times.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 41):

Valid point, it also could mean the deal could be for a wet lease. IIRC the previous 9W deal was a wet lease.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: na
Posted 2012-12-31 00:28:39 and read 7685 times.

Most likely the planes will come from Jet Aw I would say. I just came back from India yesterday, and I´ve done 4 flights to and from Mumbai and Delhi in the past two weeks. I´ve seen not a single Jet 77W what I find quite telling. I also saw two AI 77Ls with covered engines, assuming they are in storage.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2012-12-31 03:05:28 and read 7467 times.

Quoting na (Reply 43):
I´ve seen not a single Jet 77W what I find quite telling.

What I find quite telling is that all five 77Ws in the fleet have operated long-haul flights in the last few days.

Quoting na (Reply 43):
I also saw two AI 77Ls with covered engines, assuming they are in storage.

Sure, AI wants to get rid of five 77Ls, that has been reported many times.


PH

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2012-12-31 23:07:56 and read 6997 times.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 44):
What I find quite telling is that all five 77Ws in the fleet have operated long-haul flights in the last few days

You overlook the fact that between December and May, 9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire. 9W will also withdraw from MXP DEL, while BRU JFK has already been dropped and no new longhaul flights have been announced. That alone gives the airline an excess of 9 widebody aircraft when compared to 6 months ago.

I am more and more convinced that if there is indeed a TK deal for the least of 7 aircraft, the source of these aircraft will indeed be 9W and not AI.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2012-12-31 23:11:58 and read 6974 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 45):
You overlook the fact that between December and May, 9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire. 9W will also withdraw from MXP DEL, while BRU JFK has already been dropped and no new longhaul flights have been announced. That alone gives the airline an excess of 9 widebody aircraft when compared to 6 months ago.

No, I don't overlook anything. Better read again what I have replied to.


PH

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-01 21:34:55 and read 6412 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 42):
deal could be for a wet lease. IIRC the previous 9W deal was a wet lease.

Only the initial part of the lease to GF and TK were wet leases. IIRC after about six months, the leases were converted to dry leases.

Quoting na (Reply 43):
. I´ve seen not a single Jet 77W what I find quite telling.

All 5 77Ws in the Jet fleet are used regularly. Jet operates a rotation of 4 x 77Ws to LHR on 2x BOM-LHR na 1x DEL-LHR daily. The 5th 77W is on the BOM-HKG route, spending the whole day sunbathing at Chep Lap Kok.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 45):
9W will add at least 4 A333s its its fleet, while the wet leases to at least 3 of 5 B77Ws to TG will expire.

Vin2BasketBall has done an analysis of Jet's international network, including the possibility of Jet shifting from the 787-8 to the 787-9. http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...rways-international-fleet-and.html

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: karan69
Posted 2013-01-01 23:38:01 and read 6322 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 47):
The 5th 77W is on the BOM-HKG route, spending the whole day sunbathing at Chep Lap Kok.

I would hardly call that Sunbathing , they provide convinient business time flights and also connect with the UA flights to LAX/SFO from HKG.

Infact if the revert to their original departure time of 2330 hrs , they will even get a better yield

Also given the fact that it is cheaper to park the aircraft at HKG than it is at BOM or even operate a non profit route like BLR, or MAA with a day time 77W, what else do you suggest they do with the aircraft

Karan

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: karan69
Posted 2013-01-02 22:12:55 and read 5878 times.

As per some sources a 4 aircraft deal has been signed with 9W , these will be the Current aircraft which are with TG which will go to TK as their leases expire

Karan

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2013-01-02 22:26:45 and read 5825 times.

As was predicted,so where are they getting the other 3 frames?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2013-01-03 02:28:52 and read 5614 times.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 22):
EK has grown on the back of DXB's superb facilities for example.

Emirates is really struggling as Dubai has some of the worst queues and disinterested passport control on the planet. That's the fly in the ointment and it's getting worse. Palatial terminals are fine but don't couple them with comically loing queues.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-01-03 09:46:05 and read 5327 times.

Might they test the waters on IST-SFO?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2013-01-11 17:58:21 and read 4770 times.

Looks like they won't be the AIN 77L's--going to Ukraine

www.flightglobal.com/airspace/blogs/john_dyer/default.aspx


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