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Topic: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: worldrider
Posted 2013-01-11 01:34:04 and read 23442 times.

Yet another incident with the dreamliner, cracks have been discovered on
the cockpit window on a domestic flight.

here is a link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/bu...pit-window-of-boeing-787.html?_r=0

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: jeppelainen
Posted 2013-01-11 01:41:05 and read 23403 times.

Quoting worldrider (Thread starter):

Yet another incident with the dreamliner, cracks have been discovered on
the cockpit window on a domestic flight.

Happens to airliners almost every single day so can't really understand how this can be a "Yet another incident with the dreamliner?"

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: oldeuropean
Posted 2013-01-11 01:44:17 and read 23360 times.

Quoting worldrider (Thread starter):
Yet another incident with the dreamliner, cracks have been discovered on
the cockpit window on a domestic flight.

Come on, the next time they blame that aircraft for bird strikes.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: AF185
Posted 2013-01-11 01:48:27 and read 23315 times.

The real news here for me is that ANA already operates 17 B787 according to the article...

Is that really true? It seems many for an aircraft which entered service no so long ago!

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: worldrider
Posted 2013-01-11 01:54:50 and read 23218 times.

ok guys, if read well, this not a bird strike, something else here, a bird strike is very.. visual.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: zkokq
Posted 2013-01-11 01:55:40 and read 23214 times.

The OP cant be serious. Happens daily all over the world.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2013-01-11 01:57:03 and read 23188 times.

The 787 is now in the focus like the A380 was for a while. Every little snag or mishap creates headlines in media.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-01-11 02:04:15 and read 23092 times.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 3):
The real news here for me is that ANA already operates 17 B787 according to the article...

Is that really true? It seems many for an aircraft which entered service no so long ago!

Yes, thats correct

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: flood
Posted 2013-01-11 02:14:06 and read 23008 times.

That explains the Airbus employee I saw sprinting across the Haneda ramp with a ladder.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-01-11 02:30:49 and read 22816 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 8):
That explains the Airbus employee I saw sprinting across the Haneda ramp with a ladder.

From Boston to Haneda, he's been a very busy guy!
I bet he's Star Gold...

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2013-01-11 02:34:27 and read 22779 times.

The cracks are on the outer glass surface, which is non-structural. The glass is used as a wear surface since it resists scratching and pitting much better than the acrylics that are used for the main structural part of the window. So a "broken window" is not a big deal at all.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: swallow
Posted 2013-01-11 02:59:55 and read 22624 times.

Quoting flood (Reply 8):
That explains the Airbus employee I saw sprinting across the Haneda ramp with a ladder.

Should have pulled him over for speeding  

This is getting comical. But unfortunately for Boeing, the 787 is under intense media scrutiny, and molehills are turned into mountains.

I remember the hysteria whenever the 380 was AOG.

By the time the A350 enters service, every coffee maker malfunction will be tweeted  

And a.nutters will be arguing about dispatch reliability vs. the 787, 380, 777

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-01-11 04:39:40 and read 21964 times.

Quoting worldrider (Reply 4):

ok guys, if read well, this not a bird strike, something else here, a bird strike is very.. visual.

If you read the comments again oldeuropean is being sarcastic...

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 2):
Quoting worldrider (Thread starter):
Yet another incident with the dreamliner, cracks have been discovered on
the cockpit window on a domestic flight.

Come on, the next time they blame that aircraft for bird strikes.

Seriously, this sounds like a repeat of the A380 EIS experiencing teething issues... It's common for any new type to experience issues the first year or two of revenue service...

EK413

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2013-01-11 04:52:30 and read 21831 times.

Hi,

This very much reminds me of the 2008-2010 when Qantas were under the spotlight and every single operational 'issue' was being reported by the likes of The Age and Sydney Morning Herald for anything from U/S toilets to 5 minute delays. Whether a windshield crack is worthy of a media highlight is very borderline to me. This happens all the time to many aircraft types...

ThomasCook

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-01-11 06:39:22 and read 21193 times.

Hey guys.. This is totally normal.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: upperdeck
Posted 2013-01-11 06:39:47 and read 21193 times.

Yes yes yes we can all talk about the histeria surrounding the 787 but would the FAA really launch an investigation into the design and manufacturing of it if they didn't think there was something worth investigating?

The fact is, the number of 787 'glitches' we've seen so early on - some serious, some not - is outside of the risk appetite for a number of people, the FAA included it would seem. You'd not expect Boeing to say anything other than 'these are normal for an introduction' etc etc. It's not up to Boeing to reassure the flying public, it's up to the FAAs and CAAs of the world to do that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20988117

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-01-11 07:00:37 and read 21018 times.

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 15):
Yes yes yes we can all talk about the histeria surrounding the 787 but would the FAA really launch an investigation into the design and manufacturing of it if they didn't think there was something worth investigating?

In the face of widespread media panic then yes, they might - to shut everyone up.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2013-01-11 08:31:07 and read 20515 times.

All these tech issue so far have been mechanical or electrical system.
While important, these failures are also common on other types.

I'm waiting for the first time the 787 fuselage gets damaged. It will be interesting to see how quickly the damage gets repaired and the plane returned to service.

bt

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: GSPflyer
Posted 2013-01-11 09:22:48 and read 19674 times.

I seriously think it would make the news if a 787 has to divert due to weather at its destination.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-01-11 09:27:29 and read 19575 times.

So we are not suggesting that all 787's be grounded until Boeing and the FAA can correct the issue?
Hopefully it is not a design problem with the glass.  

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Toni_
Posted 2013-01-11 09:35:20 and read 19359 times.

I know a guy who works for UA maintenance, and he was telling me in confidence the other day that the rubber on them things that go round and round under the 787 aircraft is showing signs of wear and tear after each flight. Couldn't believe what I was hearing!

Man, I swear... Boeing needs to get their sh%te together!   

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: j.mo
Posted 2013-01-11 09:45:10 and read 19063 times.

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 20):
I know a guy who works for UA maintenance, and he was telling me in confidence the other day that the rubber on them things that go round and round under the 787 aircraft is showing signs of wear and tear after each flight. Couldn't believe what I was hearing!

Boeing makes tires too?

JM

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-01-11 09:52:53 and read 18844 times.

In perspective, the 747 introduction had windshield problems and many only lasted two flights.. I believe this is only the third for the 787 .. (one prior to delivery and two since)... big whooping deal.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: GEG2RAP
Posted 2013-01-11 10:00:02 and read 18682 times.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 2):
Quoting worldrider (Thread starter):
Yet another incident with the dreamliner, cracks have been discovered on
the cockpit window on a domestic flight.

Come on, the next time they blame that aircraft for bird strikes.

Are you kidding, wait until the next time a service truck runs into a dreamliner! Here will be the headline "Dreamliner involved in yet another incident. Lavatory service truck strikes dreamliner.....boeing defending that the airplane is not full of _______"

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-01-11 10:40:07 and read 17730 times.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 10):
So a "broken window" is not a big deal at all.

Except for whoever foots the bill... Those aren't cheap, especially the 787 ones.

Still, it wouldn't be in the news if it wasn't for the other events.
Worry would be warranted if it started happening repeatedly.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: SSTeve
Posted 2013-01-11 11:09:21 and read 17534 times.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 13):
This very much reminds me of the 2008-2010 when Qantas were under the spotlight and every single operational 'issue' was being reported by the likes of The Age and Sydney Morning Herald for anything from U/S toilets to 5 minute delays. Whether a windshield crack is worthy of a media highlight is very borderline to me. This happens all the time to many aircraft types...

Yeah, every hiccup will get a general interest news writeup for a few months. Just wait for longer articles that recap every anomaly so far and have interviews from passengers-- you need interviews, of course-- who were unnerved by turbulence and their windows not working they way they expected, leading them to be fearful and question whether the new 787 is actually a safe airplane to fly.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Wisdom
Posted 2013-01-11 11:30:54 and read 17245 times.

I have to cry bull....

Windshield cracks are common... if we're talking 1 or 2 occurences per month in a fleet of 100 aircraft, with windshields having 6-12 years on average. And in 90% of the cases it's a bird strike.

So how common is it for a brand new windshield of a brand new aircraft to crack just like that?


Common reasons for windshield failures other than FOD:
-Maintenance/production error: wrongly installed windshield, ie bolts torqued too hard, bolts torqued too loose, windshield not positioned correctly, damage during installation, wrong bolts, etc...
-Malfunction of heating element causing overheat or underheat causing the glass to become very crisp at altitude.
-Undetected manufacturing defect (rare but possible)
-Undetected damage during transport prior to installation.
-Fatigue/airframe deformation, which is unlikely for a new aircraft.


It's not that common for a new windshield to crack for no apparent reasons, unless someone, somewhere screwed up.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: CalebWilliams
Posted 2013-01-11 11:46:49 and read 17168 times.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 18):

I seriously think it would make the news if a 787 has to divert due to weather at its destination

I thought Boeing designed it with WeatherImpervious feature that just magically moves weather to other parts of the world...

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: cbphoto
Posted 2013-01-11 12:18:58 and read 16693 times.

Breaking news: A paint chip on one of Uniteds brand new 787s was discovered after a routine flight!

Seriously, this is how ridiculous it is getting! Cracks on airliner windshields happen from time to time with no fault from anyone or anything, including birds. Try being exposed to 400 mph winds at -40+ temps, I'd bet you would crack too  

What next? Seat 2A breaks on the 787?

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-11 12:37:38 and read 16195 times.

Is that really true? It seems many for an aircraft which entered service no so long ago![/quote]

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):
Quoting AF185 (Reply 3):
The real news here for me is that ANA already operates 17 B787 according to the article...

Is that really true? It seems many for an aircraft which entered service no so long ago!

Yes, thats correct

Delivery dates of ANA's 17 787s per Boeing website (with 49 more on order):

September 25, 2011
October 13, 2011
December 30, 2011
January 12, 2012
January 14, 2012
March 28, 2012
April 15, 2012
June 20, 2012
June 24, 2012
June 30, 2012
July 16, 2012
August 22, 2012
August 30, 2012
September 23, 2012
September 30, 2012
October 31, 2012
December 20, 2012

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: FlexJetOKC
Posted 2013-01-11 13:47:58 and read 14905 times.

This is like saying a semi flung a rock up that hit your windshield and chipped it. This (windshield cracks on airplanes) happens EVERY day! Its pretty sad to see all the 787 bashing going on lately.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Wisdom
Posted 2013-01-11 16:12:43 and read 12589 times.

Windshields don't crack for no reason this early in their service life. Bird strike and FOD is the main cause of cracking, but this isn't the case in this incident.

All other reasons would point to malfunction of the heating, which in turn is also not acceptable for such a new aircraft;
or to someone screwing up.

A new windshield is anywhere in the 5 figures, depending on which windshield (front/side) and aircraft type.
Windshields are a big deal in the industry. There are 2 or 3 suppliers (St. Gobain, PPG and one more I can't remember) and purchasing departments are on their toes and very polarised when it comes to choosing their windshield supplier.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: ordpark
Posted 2013-01-11 16:26:43 and read 12390 times.

USAIR landed in BOS this afternoon with a cracked windshield...believe it was an Airbus...No media attention! Like somebody referred too, anytime the 787 burps, it's gonna make the news!

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-11 17:05:18 and read 11831 times.

Quoting ordpark (Reply 32):
USAIR landed in BOS this afternoon with a cracked windshield...believe it was an Airbus...No media attention! Like somebody referred too, anytime the 787 burps, it's gonna make the news!

For 2012 alone there are several dozen cracked windshield reports involving a wide variety of types in the Transport Canada daily occurrence database. And that's just Canada. There must be hundreds worldwide. A few random ones from 2012:

June 28
ACA862, Air Canada Boeing 767-333, enroute from Toronto (CYYZ) to London (EGLL), advised that the aircraft experienced a cracked windshield and requested clearance to divert to Halifax (CYHZ). No emergency was declared and the aircraft landed without further incident.

January 30
A Pinnacle Airlines Bombardier CRJ900 (N601LR) was operating as FLG3338 on a flight from Minneapolis-St Paul (KMSP) to Edmonton (CYEG). While inbound to Edmonton the crew observed electrical arcing and glowing on top of the left front windshield. The windshield heat was turned off and the outer pane subsequently shattered. FLG3338 declared an emergency with ATC and were met by ARFF. The flight landed without further incident.

December 6
FDX121, Federal Express Boeing 757-200, was 60 NM south of Edmonton when the crew reported a cracked windshield and elected to return to CYEG. The aircraft landed safely at 0237z.

January 16
The Air Canada Airbus A319 (operating as ACA186) was 50 DME north of North Bay (CYYB) on a scheduled IFR flight from Calgary (CYYC) to Montréal (CYUL). The flight crew of ACA186 informed Toronto ACC that they had a cracked windshield. No emergency and no operational impact.

February 18
Air Canada flight ACA168, an Embraer ERJ-190, was en route from Calgary (CYYC) to Ottawa (CYOW) in the vicinity of the North Bay (YYB) VOR at 37,000 feet when the captain's windscreen cracked accompanied by a Windshield Heat EICAS message. The QRH procedure was performed and the crew elected to declare a PAN PAN and descend to 10,000 feet. The aircraft continued to CYOW and landed without further incident. Maintenance replaced the captain's windscreen.

March 9
The Air Canada Airbus A320-211 (C-FDSN, operating as flight ACA919) was in cruise at FL390 en route from Miami (KMIA) to Toronto (CYYZ) when the Captain's windshield shattered. The flight crew declared an emergency with ATC and proceeded to complete the ECAM/QRH procedures. The aircraft landed uneventfully on runway 33L with ARFF standing by. Maintenance staff replaced the windshield and its respective Window Heat Computer (WHC). The aircraft was returned to service.

September 24
The Embraer ERJ-190, C-FHON, operated by Air Canada as flight ACA217, was enroute from Calgary, about 15NM from Vancouver when the flight crew declared a PAN PAN due to a cracked windshield. The aircraft was given priority and landed without further event at 14:26 PDT with ARFF on standby, and taxied to the gate.

September 16
C-GGNW, a DHC-8-402 operated by Air Canada Jazz as flight number JZA8989, was on an IFR flight from Moncton (CYQM) to Montréal (CYUL). At 1029Z, the Boston air route traffic control center transferred communications to the Montréal area control centre, reporting that the aircraft’s windshield was cracked. No emergency was declared and the crew continued the flight at reduced speed and low altitude as a precaution. The aircraft landed without incident at 1118Z on Runway 24R at Montréal/Trudeau. There was no impact on ATC operations.

July 2
The Air Canada Airbus A320 aircraft (operating as flight ACA704) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Toronto (CYYZ) to New York (LaGuardia) (KLGA). The aircraft was en-route (over New York state) when the flight crew declared an emergency due to a cracked windshield and the flight returned to Toronto where it landed without further incident. ARFF services were not requested for the landing.

August 7
The crew of AT 502, an Air Tindi Beech King Air 200 medevac, requested to return to Yellowknife (CYZF) due to a cracked windshield; no emergency was declared. The aircraft landed without incident at 1026z.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-01-11 17:35:31 and read 11458 times.

News hogs. Like no other aircraft has ever had a cracked windshield. I don't get it.
In the last 30 years in aviation, I've seen many cracked windshields. Note the fact
that the 787 didn't exist all those years ago. Media frenzy. Stupid!!

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Wisdom
Posted 2013-01-11 17:47:00 and read 11307 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):

If you have a look , several of these occurrences were related to heat malfunction.

You know what the main reason for heat malfunction of the windshield is?
a. corrosion of the grounding leads, which increase the resistance and lead to arcing.
b. careless technicians who don't bother to check the grounding resistance after installing the windshield, so that the new windshield cracks again for the same reason, usually a corroded heat grounding lead.......(it happens a lot).
c. careless technicians who forget to pull the circuit breakers of the heat when they jack-up an aircraft, causing several windshields to fail internally due to overheating. It may not be visible immediately, but as soon as you pressurize...

Several of the above are probably bird strikes and improper maintenance procedures that led to the cracking.

In any case, a cracked windshield is very rare on a brand new aircraft. It takes time to build up corrosion or any form of contamination and the LRU's don't get swapped that often.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: calvo747
Posted 2013-01-11 17:55:20 and read 11167 times.

ANA should ask Boeing for compensation, I'm sure a Qatar would..........
  

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-01-11 18:06:02 and read 11048 times.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 31):
Windshields don't crack for no reason this early in their service life.

Sorry.. that is incorrect. with the 747 there was a problem in the assembly which coupled with flight stresses caused windshields to crack after very few flights.. the core problem was the multiple contours in the glass and varying adhesion to the plastic core. The 787 windows may be having some of that problem or most likely it's something else.

.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-01-11 18:20:44 and read 10820 times.

Quoting kanban (Reply 37):
...with the 747 there was a problem in the assembly which coupled with flight stresses caused windshields to crack after very few flights...The 787 windows may be having some of that problem or most likely it's something else.

I would expect such a situation to have resulted in cracks appearing during flight test as well as during the year-plus NH had airframes in revenue service.

This sounds more like a situation unique to this specific windshield system.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Aerowrench
Posted 2013-01-11 20:05:16 and read 9546 times.

The Internet proves dangerous once again. Windshields crack/shatter on a regular basis; that is, generally speaking, a single ply (usually the the outer or middle ply). This particular story is a serious case of TMI    and should be left for the fine AMT experts at ANA to address. If you would like to know the structural make-up of the PPG windscreens on the 787, follow this link to the data sheet download:

http://www.ppg.com/coatings/aerospace/transparencies1/B787_tb_v9.pdf

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: danild
Posted 2013-01-11 20:18:09 and read 9442 times.

This is from my 787 flight from Chicago to Houston a few weeks ago... Although I absolutely LOOOOVED my 787 experience I was kind of dissapointed that the windows cracked on such a brand new plane  

787 Cracked Window 2012

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2013-01-11 20:43:01 and read 9170 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
It's common for any new type to experience issues the first year or two of revenue service...

Non-FOD windshield cracking is a form of infant mortality, which happens to *all* LRUs for *all* aircraft. This falls under the stack of "this is how airplane operate".

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 15):
Yes yes yes we can all talk about the histeria surrounding the 787 but would the FAA really launch an investigation into the design and manufacturing of it if they didn't think there was something worth investigating?

No. But there's zero evidence that windshield cracking has anything to do with what the FAA is talking about.

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 15):
The fact is, the number of 787 'glitches' we've seen so early on - some serious, some not - is outside of the risk appetite for a number of people

Well, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean the 787 windshield is a problem...it's more likely to mean that people's risk appetite for windshields is out of whack with reality.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 17):
I'm waiting for the first time the 787 fuselage gets damaged

It already happened, quite some time ago.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 17):
It will be interesting to see how quickly the damage gets repaired and the plane returned to service.

A few hours.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 26):
So how common is it for a brand new windshield of a brand new aircraft to crack just like that?

Quite. If a windshield is bad, it will go quickly. Windshields are more prone than many to infant mortality.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 31):
Windshields don't crack for no reason this early in their service life.

Correct. But there are manufacturing flaws (particularly in the heating layer) that will get through on all types.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 31):
All other reasons would point to malfunction of the heating, which in turn is also not acceptable for such a new aircraft;
or to someone screwing up.

It's nothing to do with new aircraft, it's a property of new windows.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 35):
In any case, a cracked windshield is very rare on a brand new aircraft.

Not really.

Tom.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-01-11 20:57:03 and read 9008 times.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 39):
PPG windscreens on the 787

Thanks..PPG took over the 747 windshields when the original supplier couldn't resolve the problem.. they do build a good windshield..

As I recall, there were a lot of burnouts as well back then. and yes that was over 50 years ago

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
I would expect such a situation to have resulted in cracks appearing during flight test as well as during the year-plus NH had airframes in revenue service.

Well Matt had a picture a couple weeks ago of a 787 with a windshield changing rig wrapped around the nose ( I seem to recall it was a LAN bird), and I also seem to recall that he mentioned the rig being used in one of his earlier posts...

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Skydrol
Posted 2013-01-11 21:12:59 and read 8860 times.

and tomorrow's Dreamliner headline:

Liquid witnessed pouring out of Boeing 787 while airplane is parked at gate!
- Witness videos on YouTube!



Of course we all know about such things as drain masts... but keep expecting the ridiculous.




✈LD4 ✈

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: a36001
Posted 2013-01-11 21:31:00 and read 8660 times.

The media will focus on the 787 simply because they remember the delays at the beginning of the program, and because it's the latest and greatest. They forget, don't know or don't care about the fact that this is completely normal for a new EIS aircraft. All we have to do is remember the A380 EIS (especially in Australia, the media here were all over every single thing with Qantas and their fleet, "A180", "Hyundai of the skies", and "plastic buckets of loose nuts and bolts" i recall reading, it was quite boring and an insult to Hyundai and plastic bucket's) when actually the EIS of the A380 was fairly smooth, I for one would not hesitate to board a 787, now or at any time in the future.  

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: challengerdan
Posted 2013-01-11 22:32:32 and read 8157 times.

Used to work the flight line at an aircraft manufacturer. Windshields would crack every now and then after only 2 or 3 flight cycles. Probably heard of at least 12 in 5 years, and that is on a combination of brand new window panes and aircraft. Glass windows are durable and yet very brittle when something is not quite up to spec , be it surrounding clearance, heater integrity, installation tolerances, etc.

No big deal, unless it becomes economically an issue i.e. many time a year on one particular tail or all fleet. Such a part would probably be covered under warranty anyways.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Wisdom
Posted 2013-01-12 04:50:22 and read 6573 times.

Quote:
Sorry.. that is incorrect. with the 747 there was a problem in the assembly which coupled with flight stresses caused windshields to crack after very few flights.. the core problem was the multiple contours in the glass and varying adhesion to the plastic core. The 787 windows may be having some of that problem or most likely it's something else.

As far as I'm concerned, you're just backing up my comment that windows don't shatter for no reason.

Quoting challengerdan (Reply 45):
Windshields would crack every now and then after only 2 or 3 flight cycles. Probably heard of at least 12 in 5 years, and that is on a combination of brand new window panes and aircraft

Very often attributed to wrong installation of the things too. Manufacturing is also under time pressure, and sometimes the grounding is not good enough and the heating element would shatter the window.
If there is a manufacturing defect to the glass, it would usually shatter at first pressurisation.

Happens a lot on the line too, no matter how many times you tell the darned technicians to be careful with the things and follow the task cards to the end.  


Manufacturing defects do occur, and airlines do make a big deal out of it too.
A single windshield can go up to a mechanic's paycheck for a year if you count in ground time, repair resources, delays.
If you have 2 or 3 unrelated events in a very short time span, the airlines would ban that particular windshield brand. Have seen it done at 3 airlines.
At ANA, it's already a strike one.

Warranty doesn't cover ground time, delays and replacement aircraft, etc...

[Edited 2013-01-12 04:53:15]

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Kaiarahi
Posted 2013-01-12 05:06:03 and read 6505 times.

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 20):
I know a guy who works for UA maintenance, and he was telling me in confidence the other day that the rubber on them things that go round and round under the 787 aircraft is showing signs of wear and tear after each flight. Couldn't believe what I was hearing!
Quoting GEG2RAP (Reply 23):
"Dreamliner involved in yet another incident. Lavatory service truck strikes dreamliner..
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 28):
Breaking news: A paint chip on one of Uniteds brand new 787s was discovered after a routine flight!

Breaking news:

"Unflushed turd found in 787 toilet. Fleet grounded until investigation completed. Analysts report that ETOPS certification may be withdrawn as a result of health and safety concerns over turd build-up on ETOPS flights. Auntie Maude, who might one day be a passenger on a 787, said she is extremely concerned because "Unflushed turds don't just happen. Something must have caused it".

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Kaiarahi
Posted 2013-01-12 05:27:13 and read 6448 times.

And I'm just waiting for this one.

From the EASA certificate:

"Boeing and GE have determined that the GEnx engines on these 787-8 aircraft intermittently emit a sometimes clearly visible fuel vapor fog after shutdown, as a result of a small quantity of fuel being released from the engine’s fuel system. These emissions do not present a safety issue or appreciable environmental impact. Boeing and GE will modify the design of the aircraft and engines by December 31, 2012 to completely eliminate this fuel venting on new aircraft. Boeing has included an airworthiness limitation in the instructions for continued airworthiness for the affected aircraft requiring incorporation of the modified design by December 31, 2014."

Fire in 787 engine after shutdown. Passengers report smoke pouring from engine.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: CALTECH
Posted 2013-01-12 05:35:50 and read 6420 times.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 35):
You know what the main reason for heat malfunction of the windshield is?

Incorrect, examples you give are very rare. Top two reasons for a windshield cracking,

Windshield goes bad and or Heat Controller failure. It is not careless technicians as you put it.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: babybus
Posted 2013-01-12 09:31:37 and read 6086 times.

I know many hear want to pass off the windscreen cracks as insignificant saying it happens all the time but you don't expect your windscreen to crack on a brand new aircraft. Maybe this is airframe stress related.

For me this brings back memories of that BA BAC 1-11 where the windscreen shattered and the pilot was sucked outside the cockpit.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-01-12 09:40:13 and read 6061 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 50):
Maybe this is airframe stress related.

NH has reported three incidents and I believe they were all on frames used for domestic flights, so they would have more cycles on them...

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-12 12:08:43 and read 5799 times.

I've noted that the 787 only has 4 windshield panels while the A350 has 6, presumably for a similar total window area. I wonder if larger panels make them more prone to cracking?

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-01-12 12:22:33 and read 5738 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 52):
I've noted that the 787 only has 4 windshield panels while the A350 has 6, presumably for a similar total window area. I wonder if larger panels make them more prone to cracking?

The original A350XWB had four cockpit windows and I believe they were of similar dimension to the 787. Airbus went with six windows when they switched to A380's window glazing.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: challengerdan
Posted 2013-01-12 12:29:44 and read 5714 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 50):
I know many hear want to pass off the windscreen cracks as insignificant saying it happens all the time but you don't expect your windscreen to crack on a brand new aircraft. Maybe this is airframe stress related.

For me this brings back memories of that BA BAC 1-11 where the windscreen shattered and the pilot was sucked outside the cockpit.

Windshields cracking and windshields blow-outs are definitely not the same thing.
A windshield face ply cracking in the case of glass windshields or de-laminating in the case of plastic face-ply windshield is inconvenient, but not unusual.

There is nothing in the B787 windshield issues that has anything to do with the BAC 1-11 incident.
Look up the bac 1-11 incident: the wrong bolts were used.

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: challengerdan
Posted 2013-01-12 15:29:41 and read 5396 times.

I even found on the net one occurrence where a total of 22 windshields cracked on 14 different aircrafts during a 90 minutes period (Feb 2007). Now that was unusual...

http://www.sott.net/article/130477-E...ed-airplane-windscreens-doesnt-fly

Topic: RE: Cracks On ANA 787 Windshield
Username: Rheinbote
Posted 2013-01-12 16:44:18 and read 5257 times.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 10):
The cracks are on the outer glass surface, which is non-structural.

The 787 has structural windhshields. They are bolted to the frame, not clamped like on all previous Boeing airplanes, so they *are* subject to structural loads. Early on in flight testing there were issues with thermal expansion, pilots reported 'popping' sounds. AFAIK the flight deck window frames were redesigned and retrofitted as part of the EMC rework.


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