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Topic: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-12 02:20:53 and read 15636 times.

With the addition of Qatar to the OneWorld alliance, and a very powerful middle eastern carrier with connections to the levant more readily available, will RJ eventually be dropped from OneWorld? BA is keeping AMM from the BD routes and has stopped selling RJ. The only other OW airline that I see still selling RJ is AA. Also, RJ posted massive losses in 2011 and is expected to have done very poorly with reduced yields and high gas prices (along with the Arab spring) in 2013.

It's very unfortunate to see RJ in such poor shape, especially considering that RJ was doing extremely well 2006/2007. But does it seem feasible for OW to keep RJ, or even vice versa?

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: AIR MALTA
Posted 2013-01-12 03:05:15 and read 15444 times.

Quoting liftsifter (Thread starter):
With the addition of Qatar to the OneWorld alliance, and a very powerful middle eastern carrier with connections to the levant more readily available, will RJ eventually be dropped from OneWorld?

I don't think RJ will drop out of OneWorld. I do however think that OneWorld airlines are not cooperating that much with RJ. BA was forced to drop their codes on RJ fights AMM when they took over BD. BA could have put their codes on flights from AMM to let's say Sanaa, Aden, Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, etc... but this lack of cooperation does is not limited to RJ but is generally a feature of OneWorld.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: VCy
Posted 2013-01-12 03:09:42 and read 15419 times.

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 1):

Agreed! Its almost like its BA and AA enjoying the closest relationship and then you have the rest that dont show a unified alliance such as Star Alliance.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2013-01-12 06:48:01 and read 14405 times.

Quoting VCy (Reply 2):
Its almost like its BA and AA enjoying the closest relationship and then you have the rest that dont show a unified alliance such as Star Alliance.

I wouldn't say that, I mean QF, JL and AA all cooperate fairly well with each other, and LA and AA also work well together. Its more QF, CX and BA that have had their issues recently as well as AB who looks like they're getting closer to AF-KL and Skyteam.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: spud757
Posted 2013-01-12 09:34:28 and read 12399 times.

There'd be no point leaving OW alliance for ST or * A as both have members in close proximity to RJ.

With BD being fully absorbed now into BA, what is stopping BA working more closely with RJ on LHR-AMM?

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: Humberside
Posted 2013-01-12 09:48:16 and read 12212 times.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 4):
With BD being fully absorbed now into BA, what is stopping BA working more closely with RJ on LHR-AMM?

The EU. Approval for the bmi takeover was on the basis that either BA dropped the route, or didn't codeshare with RJ so as to maintain competition

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-12 09:51:14 and read 12179 times.

I really like all the airlines within OW, but for whatever reason they don't work together well. It could be simply because BA and AA really only need each other to have a fully sustainable route network, with very vast coverage.

How is OW even helping RJ anymore though? It's clear the tie up hasn't led to a significant increase in profit.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-01-12 10:39:27 and read 11590 times.

I doubt RJ will be dropped from oneworld, there is very little reason to do that. Just because QR is joining doesnt really mean much, from what I know QR and RJ have a different strategy. As for none of the airlines really supporting and copra ring with them it's not a huge problem in oneworld. There a bunch of airlines that don't like/cooperate with each other. For example QF and Cathay Pacfic do not get along. But they are both founding members. That doesn't mean that one should be dropped.

One question: who sponsored RJ into oneworld? The most logical member would be BA.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: blink182
Posted 2013-01-12 11:23:25 and read 11140 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 7):
One question: who sponsored RJ into oneworld? The most logical member would be BA.

IIRC it was IB

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: raffik
Posted 2013-01-12 11:36:55 and read 10976 times.

How are BA doing on AMM? The flight prices always seemed much lower to Amman than to neighbouring Beirut.
Confusing. I hope that RJ manage to sort out their problems. Are they still operating those A340-200s and A310s?

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-12 11:52:31 and read 10792 times.

Quoting raffik (Reply 9):
Are they still operating those A340-200s and A310s?

RJ still operates A342 (4) and have recently removed A310s (2) from service.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-12 12:04:25 and read 10693 times.

British Airways was the sponsor for Royal Jordanian’s entry into the alliance.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: by738
Posted 2013-01-12 12:43:05 and read 10298 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
British Airways was the sponsor for Royal Jordanian’s entry into the alliance.

Not sure that means they must remain in OW however

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-01-12 14:35:45 and read 9351 times.

Quoting by738 (Reply 12):

If you are referring to RJ then of course they don't have to stay in OneWorld. But if they would drop OneWorld then where would they go? They are not in the best finical position, so the other alliances might stay away from them. It's not like RJ brings anything unique to the table, *A and ST already have the Middle East covered.

So I don't see RJ dropping out of OneWorld anytime voluntarily.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-01-12 15:29:35 and read 8895 times.

The chances of RJ being kicked out of OW are zero.

They might depart on their own one day, but it isnt likely.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-01-12 19:28:19 and read 7484 times.

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 10):

Didn't RJ recently accept delivery of factory fresh A332's...?

EK413

[Edited 2013-01-12 19:30:21]

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: flylonghaul
Posted 2013-01-12 20:57:06 and read 7060 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 15):

RJ currently operates 3 x 332. I think these were delivered around 2010? (Just memory, could be wrong)

Apparently they are to be phased out in 2018! Looks like they may be aiming to keep a young fleet in the future.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-01-12 21:05:11 and read 7022 times.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 16):
Apparently they are to be phased out in 2018! Looks like they may be aiming to keep a young fleet in the future.

Did I read it right, the NEW A332's to be phased out in 2018...?

EK413

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-12 21:23:07 and read 6933 times.

The 3 strong A330 fleet is all leased.

The most recent example (the 3rd one) is on lease till January 2017 to be exact. I don't recall end dates on the other 2.

Matter of fact most of RJ's fleet is leased. All but a handful of the A319/320/321 are leased in as well. The entire Embraer fleet is on 10-year leases. Even 4 of the 787 order will arrive under lease.

Only the A310s are (were) fully owned.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-12 22:31:52 and read 6585 times.

The A330 fleet is simply interim for the delayed 787s. 11 787's to replace 7 A340/330.

RJ was certainly planning some big expansion with the 787's, but there was a slight 4 year delay.   

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: FlyingAY
Posted 2013-01-13 00:15:31 and read 6165 times.

RJ is one of the last airlines where you get a chance to fly A342. I was once booked on their A342 oneway and A310 on the other. Unfortunately both flights were operated by a A310. I hope they do stay in OW though I can see the point of the question. If BA is not allowed to cooperate with them, AB doesn't want (EY connection) and there is QR in the region, what is the point. Though, one has to also ask, what would be better if they were not part of OW?

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: flylonghaul
Posted 2013-01-13 00:38:45 and read 6037 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

Ah that makes more sense. I remember hearing that they were to phased out, but didn't know they were leased.

Hopefully when the 787s arrive they can start heading in the right direction again.

Were they not voted airline of the year in 2006 or 2007?

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-13 00:45:21 and read 5995 times.

Airline of the Year 2007, under the leadership of Majali. RJ was on the path to becoming a world renowned airline.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: flylonghaul
Posted 2013-01-13 00:56:56 and read 5920 times.

Jeez, it's a shame RJ isn't in the same shape now.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-01-13 03:39:14 and read 5310 times.

It's home market is having a very difficult time if it lately, and the Arab spring and Syria are not helping at all for RJ.

Their strategy was fine in good times yes, but those troubles have taken the momentum away.

As for leaving OW, what for? They won't be leaving and they won't be kicked out. Both those options hold no value for anyone.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: PresRDC
Posted 2013-01-13 20:24:33 and read 4873 times.

I'll tell you this. RJ's gate security at AMM makes them uncompetitive with EK and EY. In 2012 I flew all three from their respective home bases to JFK in a premium cabin (J for EK and RJ, F for EY). EY handled the secondary screening requirement by having every passenger go through a metal detector and a bag ex-ray. EK did random secondary screening at the gate (I was selected on a previous trip at it was not at all invasive). RJ, however, had every passenger undergo a manual bag inspection that included opening up every single container (including hygene items) with the screener not wearing gloves or even having them available at the passenger's request.

I don't know if the TSA is mandating that level of screening out of AMM and not out of DXB or AUH, but I really don't care. I am not going to subject myself to it again and will avoid RJ until I know the situation has been fixed.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2013-01-13 20:36:47 and read 4846 times.

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 25):
going to subject myself

I'm sorry, but that's a really terrible excuse not to fly an airline.

RJ PAX receive automatic full screening on all flights into the US. It's just the US government's way of saying hello, I guess...   

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: PresRDC
Posted 2013-01-14 07:35:14 and read 4444 times.

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 26):
I'm sorry, but that's a really terrible excuse not to fly an airline.

RJ PAX receive automatic full screening on all flights into the US. It's just the US government's way of saying hello, I guess...

Unless the TSA rules are different for the UAE, then RJ is chosing to impliment a more stringent check than is required. Regardless of the cause, it makes them uncompetitive and I'm taking my paid J class business elsewhere.

Topic: RE: Is OneWorld Preparing To Drop Royal Jordanian?
Username: 9w748capt
Posted 2013-01-14 09:16:24 and read 4302 times.

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 25):
RJ, however, had every passenger undergo a manual bag inspection that included opening up every single container (including hygene items) with the screener not wearing gloves or even having them available at the passenger's request.

Wow - that's a lot more invasive than what I encountered. When I transited at AMM the screener basically opened one or two zippers of my multiple-compartment backpack, took a peek inside, and sent me on my way. Had things like headphones, etc in other zippered compartments that I figured might be of interest but those went totally unnoticed. Didn't really even touch or examine anything. I also noticed the lack of gloves but didn't think much of it - guess I'm used to people not having gloves when touching my things (i.e. India).


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