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Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-01-01 06:53:30 and read 17557 times.

There has been quite a bit of activity recently by Delta pilots on the Airline Pilot Central forum, concerning DL acquiring the A321. Don't know how valid this since DL has not said one word about it.
Since they are acquiring a large number of Boeing 737-900's in the near future,I don't put much credence to this story.
.In the past the DL pilots have speculated about 773's addtional 747's,addional A330's and of coure the 787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-01 06:56:33 and read 17563 times.

The 787 order is from NWA.

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-01-01 07:20:45 and read 17392 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
The 787 order is from NWA


Since the merger, everything that belonged to NW now belongs to DL including aircraft orders. assets and liabilities

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: CF-CPI
Posted 2013-01-01 07:24:27 and read 17366 times.

I'm skeptical, if only because they have a large existing fleet of A320s that do not appear to be prepped for interior upgrades that are being applied to the Boeing narrowbodies: WiFi and the video on demand. It's as if DL has settled on the 737s to handle the narrowbody twin routes long term. Aren't the 737-900 and A321 now more or less on a par with each other in terms of US domestic capability anyhow? Perhaps the A321 now has some operational advantage that I don't know about?

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-01-01 07:52:42 and read 17171 times.

DL has recently renegotiated their pilot payscales (adding the 717), and there is still no payscale for the A321. And no, it would not be paid at the same rate as the A319/A320. The 739ER payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and the 752/753/763/763ER payscales.

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-01 07:55:01 and read 17119 times.

Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: foxecho
Posted 2013-01-01 07:57:56 and read 17096 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

That didn't stop DL/NW before the merger.........   


Andrew   

Topic: DL And The A321?
Username: burnsie28
Posted 2013-01-01 08:05:35 and read 17003 times.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 3):
WiFi and the video on demand.

Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: columba
Posted 2013-01-01 08:08:44 and read 16971 times.

I don´t believe that DL will acquire the A321 as say just placed a huge order for the 737-900ER.

The only reason why I could see them taking up some A321 might be availlability and urgent replacement needs for some of their 757s. But Delta´s A32x fleet is getting very old as well and they must have some of the oldest A320s flying around. The A320 while being a one of the best aircraft ever build it is not build to last as long as a Dc 9  
That is why I expect DL to retire their A32x fleet in the next 5-10 years so adding more used A32xs to their fleet for me seems not the right choice for DL

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-01-01 08:09:19 and read 16969 times.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 8):
Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.

There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: BDL757
Posted 2013-01-01 08:15:45 and read 16897 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):

I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: burnsie28
Posted 2013-01-01 08:21:23 and read 16853 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):

There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.

I realize that but I wasn't talking about AVOD, rather VOD through the on-board servers.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-01-01 08:29:47 and read 16812 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 10):
I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!

Replacing 50-seat RJs with A321s seems a bit strange IMO. That is what the 717s are for. With the huge 739ER order, DL has no real need for the A321.

[Edited 2013-01-01 08:31:45]

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: BDL757
Posted 2013-01-01 08:40:00 and read 16717 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):
Replacing 50-seat RJs with A321s seems a bit strange IMO. That is what the 717s are for. With the huge 739ER order, DL has no real need for the A321.

It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-01-01 08:47:09 and read 16647 times.

DL did state that the i737-900ERs on order would be used to replace "757s, 767s and A320s" between 2013 and 2018, so they will need over 250 airframes to replace the A320-200, 757-200, 757-300 and 767-300 fleet.

So future order tranches could be the A321-200neo and/or the 737-9.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: GSPflyer
Posted 2013-01-01 09:04:19 and read 16557 times.

Quoting columba (Reply 8):
But Delta´s A32x fleet is getting very old as well and they must have some of the oldest A320s flying around. The A320 while being a one of the best aircraft ever build it is not build to last as long as a Dc 9

When Delta starts retiring the oldest A320's, will the pilots fly back in a DC-9?

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2013-01-01 10:07:12 and read 15883 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
There are presently no plans to add AVOD to any existing domestic aircraft other than the 753s. Of course, those plans may change in the future, but don't count on it anytime soon.

Interesting. I thought DL had announced adding AVOD on all mainline aircraft except the MD-88's? Did they cancel those plans?

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2013-01-01 10:15:07 and read 15763 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 16):
Interesting. I thought DL had announced adding AVOD on all mainline aircraft except the MD-88's? Did they cancel those plans?

For now, yes, due to high fuel prices. The 753 is the exception, since they are supposed to replace the domestic 763s on many routes including Hawaii.

[Edited 2013-01-01 10:16:17]

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: columba
Posted 2013-01-01 11:11:56 and read 14922 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 13):
It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.

Sounds like an interesting idea, lets see what comes out of it.......

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: CF-CPI
Posted 2013-01-01 11:48:24 and read 14350 times.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 7):
Uh the A319/A320's already have wifi and the whole fleet will have VOD.

The ones I rode during the summer looked like hell inside and had the old NW seats, even in F. All DL did was throw some blue leather covers on the seats. If they are starting upgrades, then I applaud it.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: milesrich
Posted 2013-01-01 11:53:38 and read 14298 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 5):
Well if you believe some people here DL is looking to add basically every used plane on the planet to their fleet.

they will not be purchasing used iron manufactured in Toulouse.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Nitrohelper
Posted 2013-01-01 12:06:47 and read 14114 times.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 15):
will the pilots fly back in a DC-9?

I believe that I have heard something about that in some posts years ago... 
By the way when will NW/DL retire the DC-9s?
Back in 2007, I picked 2012 - thought that was the longest possible, missed that one...

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: xjramper
Posted 2013-01-01 12:28:05 and read 13837 times.

Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 21):
Back in 2007, I picked 2012 - thought that was the longest possible, missed that one...

Not by much. Seems they are going away quicker than expected. The -30s and -40s were retired fairly close after the merger and the -50s, while in actually in pretty decent shape, seem to be going away slowly but surely. I can't blame NW then and DL now to have them around after all these years, seeings how they are paid off and the only money put into them is repairs and fuel. Not a bad cost ratio really.

I actually like the prospect of the A321 with DL. If the above rumor about Airbus being able to find a home for the 50 seaters coupled with the ageing fleet of the A320 with DL, the A321 could be a great solution. The 738 and 739 fleet can primarily make up for the long haul fleet, but you have to remember the A321 can be a great replacement for the 757s for the high density short-medium haul markets (ie ATL/MSP/DTW/NYC-FLA markets). Retire the older 757s, and once DL narrows down the interiors of the 757s to 3 variations (as opposed to the 9 or 10 variations they have now), could be quite the change, and for the better.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2013-01-01 13:23:46 and read 13122 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):
In the past the DL pilots have speculated about 773's addtional 747's,addional A330's and of coure the 787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

The B-787 order has been deferred until about 2020, it is finalized. I believe these will eventually be converted to the B-789 and/or B-7810, but the order is small right now at about 18 airplanes. When DL finally does take delivery, they will be the replacement for the A-332/3s

I don't see DL placing a NB order until late 2014 or sometime in 2015. DL did deferr the remaining NW orders for the A-319 and A-320 when the merger was complete (IIRC 7 total aircraft).

Doesn't DL have some A-320s parked? The NW A-32X fleet dates back to the mid 1990s, which mean the oldest airplanes are approaching 20 years old. I believe the newest A-32X was delivered to NW in 2007, making it 5 years old. DL will keep their MD-88/-90 (at least some of them) longer than that as well as all of their B-73G/Hs. DL kept their B-732/3s for 20 + years, and flew the cycles out of them with most of them flying 6-8 missions everyday. They kept their B-727s for about 25 years, and the DC-9 just keeps going and going. Can the A-32Xs fill those kinds of shoes for year and decades on end?

I see no need for DL to get A-321s, new or used unless they merge with someone who already has them.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: asqx
Posted 2013-01-01 13:41:12 and read 12914 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
I believe the newest A-32X was delivered to NW in 2007, making it 5 years old.

The A320s date from August 1990 to August 2003 while the A319s date from June 1999 to November 2003.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: max999
Posted 2013-01-01 14:40:38 and read 12965 times.

I personally think DL won't get the A321 because Airbus won't offer the same level of discounts that DL got for the 739ER. I believe discounted 739ERs were DL's compensation for 787 delays...I recall that NW was scheduled to be the first North American operator of the 787.

This would be similar to the discounted 330's and 777's offered as compensation to many airlines for the 380 and 787 delays.

[Edited 2013-01-01 14:41:22]

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-01 14:43:41 and read 12953 times.

Quoting max999 (Reply 25):
I personally think DL won't get the A321 because Airbus won't offer the same level of discounts that DL got for the 739ER. I believe discounted 739ERs were DL's compensation for 787 delays...I recall that NW was scheduled to be the first North American operator of the 787.
DL pushed the 787s back to ~2020 themselves.

Boeing just really wanted the order- it wasn't that long after the AA split order so they needed a good PR victory.

[Edited 2013-01-01 14:43:58]

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-01-01 16:12:21 and read 12115 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):
There has been quite a bit of activity recently by Delta pilots on the Airline Pilot Central forum, concerning DL acquiring the A321. Don't know how valid this since DL has not said one word about it.
Since they are acquiring a large number of Boeing 737-900's in the near future,I don't put much credence to this story.
.In the past the DL pilots have speculated about 773's addtional 747's,addional A330's and of coure the 787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.

Bob, you know how it goes over on that forum. The rumors are almost as bad as a.net.
I like how on one random post on 12/29, a person throws out the standard "hey I heard a rumor about getting some A321s"

If you believe APC, DL is getting 773s, the fomer JAL 747-400s, additional A330s, used A340s, etc.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
DL has recently renegotiated their pilot payscales (adding the 717), and there is still no payscale for the A321. And no, it would not be paid at the same rate as the A319/A320. The 739ER payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and the 752/753/763/763ER payscales.

Stop. Please stop bringing up the payscale aspect. That is never an early indicator for a rumor.

Quoting columba (Reply 8):
The only reason why I could see them taking up some A321 might be availlability and urgent replacement needs for some of their 757s. But Delta´s A32x fleet is getting very old as well and they must have some of the oldest A320s flying around.

The only real plausable scenario would be if Airbus is offering deep discounts on new or lightly used A321s, and the trade-off would be to remove some older 757s early than planned and avoid the cost of another heavy maintenance cycle.

The older A320 fleet/capacity replacement has been addressed with the 739ER older.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 10):
I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!
Quoting BDL757 (Reply 13):
It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.

How on earth did the A321 rumor get spun into the 50 seat RJ replacement?? DL already has clear plans of how to get down to 125 50 seat RJs. They do not need to engage Airbus to help with this plan. DL still plans (and needs) to retain ~125 50 RJs in their fleet.

Airbus doesn't want to deal with those things!

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 16):
Interesting. I thought DL had announced adding AVOD on all mainline aircraft except the MD-88's? Did they cancel those plans?

That was the intial comments made immediately post-merger. It was just that, a comment/statement. No firm plans were ever announced. At this point the only narrowbody fleet getting them is the 753. The 717, MD88, MD90, and A319/A320 are not getting AVOD.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 22):
Not by much. Seems they are going away quicker than expected. The -30s and -40s were retired fairly close after the merger and the -50s, while in actually in pretty decent shape, seem to be going away slowly but surely. I can't blame NW then and DL now to have them around after all these years, seeings how they are paid off and the only money put into them is repairs and fuel. Not a bad cost ratio really.

The last of the -50s will stay until early 2014.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-01 18:36:00 and read 10533 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 10):
Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s.
Quoting BDL757 (Reply 13):
It's not that they would replace a 50 seater with an A321; the way I understood it was that it was a (creative) way for DL to get rid of more 50 seat RJs by having someone buy them or buyout the leases. Similar to what is being done with Bombardier.

Fine, but what does the A321 have to do with any of that?

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-01-01 18:47:50 and read 10439 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):
787's which DL has ordered but never finalized.

its as final as it can be. 787s will start coming in 2020.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
DL has recently renegotiated their pilot payscales (adding the 717), and there is still no payscale for the A321. And no, it would not be paid at the same rate as the A319/A320. The 739ER payscale is separate from the 73G/738 payscale, slotting in between the 73G/738 and the 752/753/763/763ER payscales.

This has nothing to do with anything. All Delta has to do is say they want to add the 321 to the fleet and DALPA will sit down and work out a pay scale. (more than likely the same pay as the 739s). Unions don't turn down more work unless its its at really low prices or your in 7-8 year CBA talks like what happened with AA and the APA.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 10):

I've been hearing the same rumors at work. They way it was told to me is that the deal is like what is being done with Bombardier. Apparently, Airbus is going to help DL get rid of some of the 50 seat RJs (by buying out leases or something) and DL is going to order A321s. I have no idea whether this will come to fruition or not but it is an interesting scenario none the less!

Delta already has the 50 seat jet issue worked out.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
DL did state that the i737-900ERs on order would be used to replace "757s, 767s and A320s" between 2013 and 2018, so they will need over 250 airframes to replace the A320-200, 757-200, 757-300 and 767-300 fleet.

Would replace some of those airplanes. All of which will be in the fleet well into the 2020s. The 757-200s and A320s are getting parked as they hit the cycle limits. Delta will keep as many 757s for as long as they can. (and a good chunk of the fleet is fairly young)

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
When DL finally does take delivery, they will be the replacement for the A-332/3s

No they won't. By the time the 787s start rolling in some of the 767-300s will be nearly 30 years old and about to hit cycle limits. The A330s will be here for a long time. 767/747 will be the first fleets to be replaced(and 7 years in more than enough time to get the ROI from the cabin mods)

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Doesn't DL have some A-320s parked?

not yet.

Quoting max999 (Reply 25):
I believe discounted 739ERs were DL's compensation for 787 delays.

no. Stupid pilot rumor. The 787 compensation came from in form of a MTOW bump on the 737-800 fleet. For 100 + 30 aircraft to be discounted to ~52% off list price it would be more than what the 787 order is even worth.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-01-01 19:00:18 and read 10302 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 29):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Doesn't DL have some A-320s parked?

not yet.

Just to clarify, there are no A319 or A320s in long-term storage, parked, or retired. There is at least 1 A319 and 1 A320 in short term storage for the winter months (to likely deffer heavy maintenance until the spring when the capacity is needed again). The A319 and A320 fleet has been the same post-merger.

Similar to how DL parked A330s over previous winters (and a.net when into unroar and rampant speculation about the fate of the A330 fleet).

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-01 19:28:59 and read 9933 times.

I don't see it happening. Really no point... For now at least. Why should DL add yet another aircraft fleet to all a different variety of aircraft right now?

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: yyz717
Posted 2013-01-01 19:43:31 and read 9864 times.

DL will be heavy into adding 188 739ER's and 717's beginning in 2013 and lasting for several years, further worsening fleet "proliferation" in terms of # types and subtypes, with none of the existing types/subtypes being fully retired. It's hard to believe they would want to add the 321 to the mix at the same time, whatever the individual benefits of the 321.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: BDL757
Posted 2013-01-01 20:30:53 and read 9417 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 27):
How on earth did the A321 rumor get spun into the 50 seat RJ replacement?? DL already has clear plans of how to get down to 125 50 seat RJs. They do not need to engage Airbus to help with this plan. DL still plans (and needs) to retain ~125 50 RJs in their fleet.

Airbus doesn't want to deal with those things!
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 29):
Delta already has the 50 seat jet issue worked out.


LOL. I know, I was just stating that I had heard something about this too and that I thought it was amusing in the least.

There's more to it: when I questioned why Airbus would want worthless 50 seat aircraft the person I was discussing this with said that Airbus would either get some $$$ from scrapping the planes and that they could recycle some of the materials into new planes!! That really made me chuckle!  

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2013-01-01 20:55:04 and read 9189 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 33):
There's more to it: when I questioned why Airbus would want worthless 50 seat aircraft the person I was discussing this with said that Airbus would either get some $$$ from scrapping the planes and that they could recycle some of the materials into new planes!!

I would bet that some, perhaps a substantial number of these frames will wind up in Africa with small outfits. Lower wages being a factor. Some others will get converted to bizjets and remarketed:

http://www2.bombardier.com/Used_Airc...ft/en/C_C_Conversion_Companies.jsp

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-01-01 22:16:35 and read 8713 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):

Just to clarify, there are no A319 or A320s in long-term storage, parked, or retired. There is at least 1 A319 and 1 A320 in short term storage for the winter months (to likely deffer heavy maintenance until the spring when the capacity is needed again). The A319 and A320 fleet has been the same post-merger.

this is true, i mean none are WFU.
NW had a few 320s they rejected the leases on in BK(like 3 i think and IIRC they all were broken up) and then I believe they sold 10ish 319s during BK.
Other than those no NW/DL 32X have been WFU.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):

Similar to how DL parked A330s over previous winters (and a.net when into unroar and rampant speculation about the fate of the A330 fleet).

whats funny is Delta has done with Boeing too. 737s, 747s, 757s, 767s. Ah well.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: asaad11
Posted 2013-01-02 01:06:08 and read 7862 times.

Does anyone see DL adding more used 753's to fleet? Are there even any out there to acquire?

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: GCT64
Posted 2013-01-02 01:35:05 and read 7736 times.

Quoting asaad11 (Reply 36):
Does anyone see DL adding more used 753's to fleet? Are there even any out there to acquire?

Excepting UA's fleet, there are another 18 753s in Europe. DL would have to compromise on engine commonality to expand its fleet substantially as most non-UA/DL 753s are DE's RR powered versions.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-01-02 05:46:38 and read 6643 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 29):
its as final as it can be. 787s will start coming in 2020

If the 787 is as final as can be, then you should be able to post the full delivery schedule.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: msp747
Posted 2013-01-02 06:07:23 and read 6481 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 37):
DL would have to compromise on engine commonality to expand its fleet substantially as most non-UA/DL 753s are DE's RR powered versions.

I think the NW birds were the only 753's ever built with PW engines. All the other 753's were RR powered

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: KGRB
Posted 2013-01-02 06:22:12 and read 6327 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 37):

ALL non DL 757-300s are RR powered (including UA's). NW was the only airline to order the P&W version and those airframes are now, of course flying with Delta.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2013-01-02 11:51:30 and read 5596 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 38):

That's almost impossible to determine for the airlines getting their planes in the next 2 years let alone 7 years out. I'm on my phone and can't look it up but there is a release by both DL and Boeing on their deferral of 787 delivery from a launch customer to 2020. I don't know how much more official do you want to get.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Yukon880
Posted 2013-01-02 12:24:52 and read 5500 times.

We should all be able to agree that DL was not a launch customer for the 787.
DL did assume (and ammend) the 787 orders placed by the (planned) North American launch customer, Northwest.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-01-02 12:25:17 and read 5520 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 32):
It's hard to believe they would want to add the 321 to the mix at the same time, whatever the individual benefits of the 321.

If you fly A319, A320 and A332 adding the A321 is not such a big deal. Delta is a big airline, where it may pay off better to have the best aircraft for each purpose instead of a unified fleet. Still It would mildly surprise me.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-01-02 16:39:26 and read 5188 times.

Quoting asaad11 (Reply 36):

IIRC Delta is the only carrier with 757-300s with Pratt 2000s. The rest of the world's fleet is RB211. (and you won't be seeing Delta add 57s with RB2111s sadly)

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 38):

If the 787 is as final as can be, then you should be able to post the full delivery schedule.

Boeing says on its web site Delta has an order for 18 787-8s with RR Trent 1000 engines. Delta says in its SEC reports it has an order for 18 787-8s with Trent engines. How do you get more firm? Are you saying you know more about it than Both Delta and Boeing?

It is nearly impossible to have slot numbers for aircraft 8 years away.
But just keep saying the order isn't firm....and you'll just keep being wrong.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 41):
That's almost impossible to determine for the airlines getting their planes in the next 2 years let alone 7 years out. I'm on my phone and can't look it up but there is a release by both DL and Boeing on their deferral of 787 delivery from a launch customer to 2020. I don't know how much more official do you want to get.

This.

Its hard to get a firm number on the 739s, and they will all be in the fleet before the 787s.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-01-02 16:53:28 and read 5142 times.

I don't see Delta adding A321s with the current engines. A321neos, on the other hand...    there will have to be one more 757 replacement order at some point, and the A321neo would be a great candidate, particularly if range improvements become available after launch.

The numbers involved are large enough that the 737-900ER fleet won't be a factor one way or the other in that order.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 44):
IIRC Delta is the only carrier with 757-300s with Pratt 2000s. The rest of the world's fleet is RB211.

  

I'm not as convinced as you that they wouldn't add RB211-powered 753s at the right price, though.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-02 17:08:50 and read 5103 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 45):
I'm not as convinced as you that they wouldn't add RB211-powered 753s at the right price, though.

I can only see them doing that if they can somehow get all other 753s out there- but UA might also be interested in any that come available. Aside from UA (who I don't see selling their 753s anytime soon) and Condor there are only 5 other 753s. I don't know if adding 5-18 RR planes makes sense in a fleet of over a 150+ PW 757s.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: columba
Posted 2013-01-02 19:47:22 and read 4928 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 46):

Condor at one point wanted to sell their 757-330s but nobody was interested so they decided to keep them

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2013-01-02 22:44:12 and read 4711 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 46):
I can only see them doing that if they can somehow get all other 753s out there

They wouldn't need allof them, but they would need the Condor fleet, which is the biggest, to make such an acquisition make any sense.

Quoting Polot (Reply 46):
but UA might also be interested in any that come available.

They very much would, and the price at which the deal makes sense for UA might be a bit higher than the price DL would pay.

Quoting columba (Reply 47):
Condor at one point wanted to sell their 757-330s but nobody was interested so they decided to keep them

Market conditions change every day. A deal that didn't make sense a couple of years ago might well make sense a couple of years from now.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: TrijetsRMissed
Posted 2013-01-02 22:53:19 and read 4743 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):
The A319 and A320 fleet has been the same post-merger.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 35):
NW had a few 320s they rejected the leases on in BK(like 3 i think and IIRC they all were broken up) and then I believe they sold 10ish 319s during BK.
Other than those no NW/DL 32X have been WFU.

Actually eight NW A320s have been WFU and one A319 W/O, to date. Three of the A320 retirements occurred POST merger in Q4 2008.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Yukon880
Posted 2013-01-16 03:05:34 and read 3874 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 45):
I don't see Delta adding A321s with the current engines. A321neos, on the other hand... there will have to be one more 757 replacement order at some point ...

Agreed. (Kindly pardon the extensive edit)  

Imagine the change of complexion this discussion would take if someone comes up with a Neo or Max-motor in the say, 37-43K lb thrust class, between now and 2018 or so.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: BlueShamu330s
Posted 2013-01-16 03:29:56 and read 3803 times.

I don't think it's proprietary information that Delta is one of the airlines which has been in discussions with Airbus about a potential, heavier weight A321neo. I think it's also fair to say it has been more than a "call in the showroom and take a brochure."

Any fool, with that information, could try to make out they're in the know by promulgating a rumour that Delta might be acquiring the A321; even a pilot!     

Rgds

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Md88Captain
Posted 2013-01-16 06:58:01 and read 3375 times.

School house rumor from 2 months ago was a small order (20?) new A321 airframes. AB is to take 3 CRJ50's for every A321 delivered. The the A321's are new, off the line models but not neos. AB apparently is having a hard time finding homes for these. DAL could easily fit A321's into the fleet with none of the bother that a 717 produces plus DAL is very serious about getting rid of the 50 seat profit sucking rj. The following was a rumor offered up by a sim instructor.

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-16 07:16:40 and read 3265 times.

Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 52):

I have a hard time believing that Airbus would be interested in picking up 60 CRJs- trying to get rid of those (either by scrapping or finding another operator) will probably kill of any profit they make from selling A321s to DL (and I don't believe they would have that much trouble finding homes for new A321s that they would resort to picking up CRJs)

Topic: RE: DL And The A321?
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-01-16 08:21:57 and read 3025 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Thread starter):
There has been quite a bit of activity recently by Delta pilots on the Airline Pilot Central forum, concerning DL acquiring the A321. Don't know how valid this since DL has not said one word about it.

You know what they say..........there are lies, damn lies and pilot rumors      


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