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Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-01-08 17:27:05 and read 13827 times.

AA rumor mill reports this is official! Due to 763 issues and to back-up reliability of longhaul flying, AA says 763s allocated to SDQ/STI runs will be used as spare aircrafts. Hard to understand this rationale, B6 changed JFK-Dominican Republic market however isn't JFK an AA "cornerstone" city? Seems odd to cancel these markets. Most likely yields might be low due VFR travelers but why cancel and not adjust with smaller airplanes? AA will most likely not announce any decision regarding merger tomorrow during Board of Directors meeting, some rumors around that AA and B6 are also talking...anything is possible.

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: ushermittwoch
Posted 2013-01-08 17:30:33 and read 13798 times.

Time to bring back the A300...   

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: surfandsnow
Posted 2013-01-08 17:52:20 and read 13597 times.

This would hardly be the most shocking cut AA has made in recent years...

These markets would still be served via MIA. The aircraft and JFK slots could be freed up for other, higher yielding purposes. Gone are the days when AA dominated the NYC-Dominican Republic realm. CO gave up on the EWR-STI route back in '08, UA still flies EWR-SDQ today. Then there is direct competition from both DL and B6 on the JFK-STI and JFK-SDQ routes as well... Although AA had historic dominance on the routes, B6 has become the market leader and DL appears to be holding its own...

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-08 17:59:04 and read 13537 times.

I don't know why AA can't really develop their JFK hub. The demand is there and B6 seems to be so successful in JFK.

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-01-08 18:11:58 and read 13422 times.

Puzzling why AA didn't try with 757 or 738 before chopping these all together! :O

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-01-08 18:22:00 and read 13330 times.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 3):
I don't know why AA can't really develop their JFK hub. The demand is there and B6 seems to be so successful in JFK.


JFK Caribbean is almost entirely vfr/leisure and highly price sensitive. The lowest cost carrier will win the day, and that's not AA, nor DL for that matter.

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-08 18:39:19 and read 13173 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Thread starter):

The rumor mill reports are official????

Topic: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-01-08 18:59:54 and read 13010 times.

What is so great about AA flying to Santo Domingo. If it doesn't fit into the new AA strategy let it go to JetBlue.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: kjfk527
Posted 2013-01-08 22:23:15 and read 12322 times.

I remember when I first became a supervisor from AA I was promoted to oversee the ticket counters at JFK. I had come from LGA where you had 3 types of passengers, corporate executives traveling to ORD/DFW/BNA/RDU/YYZ familes traveling to MCO/FLL and the snowbirds traveling to PBI/TPA.....

When I was promoted to supervisor at JFK I was pretty much told here's a radio, a copy of the ticket counter employee manning, head down to Area B and oversee the Caribbean check-ins. Talk about a culture shock....Between the Domincan Republic flights, the Haiti flights, Barbados, Jamaica, Turks and Caicos, it was absolute chaos.

If I remember correctly, I believe we had 3 SDQ flights, 605, 619, and 635, two STI flights, (can't recall the flight numbers) a PUJ flight, and LRM flight. The SDQ and STI flights were operated with A300s which was bulked out from cargo space almost everyday and the PUJ and LRM flight was operated with a 757. This was just the morning bank, if I remember correctly we also had two afternoon/evening SDQ flights one at 15:00 and the other at around 18:45.

It is crazy to think back to those days and look at what has happened to AA on the JFK-Caribbean market.

From my memory the morning departures looked something like this:

JFK - SDQ A300 5x daily flt #s 605, 619 and 635 (morning departures)
STI A300 2x daily
MBJ 757 1 daily (2x seasonal) flt #1193
PUJ 757 1 daily
LRM 757 1 daily

BGI 757 1daily flt #1385
PLS 757 1 daily flt #1015
KIN 757 1 daily
BDA 767 2 daily flt #686 (am departure)
GCM 757 1 daily (seasonal)
SXM 757 1 daily flt # 667
AUA 757 1 daily flt #796
PAP A300 1 daily (2x daily seasonal) flt #837?

We can even throw CUN in there with 1 daily A300.

JFK was a beast, with the Caribbean departures in the morning.....You also have to had the flights to SJU they had as well. Those were also all A300 which checked in at Terminal 9 ticketing area D.

It's sad to see what has happened over the years.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2013-01-09 01:24:21 and read 12026 times.

It's official. Will make separate post. SJU hub is pretty much gone.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/09/aa-sju-apr13/

'902

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: Surfandsnow
Posted 2013-01-09 04:13:00 and read 11587 times.

Quoting kjfk527 (Reply 8):

I don't know about sad, those were the days before B6.. It cost a lot more for people to visit family and friends or take vacations to the Caribbean back then - since AA had a monopoly on most routes. Of course, back then the legacies probably never thought an LCC would fly international, especially to a VFR non-leisure market like STI. Today is the result of B6's success, and other carriers like NK and FL (soon WN) offer cheap connections..

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: airjamaica
Posted 2013-01-09 06:27:34 and read 10627 times.

MBJ 757 1 daily (2x seasonal) flt #1193

KIN 757 1 daily [/quote]


AA had quite a history with their New York - Jamaica route back in the day. At times the B767s/A300s were used quite frequently to both KIN and MBJ. 645 used to route JFK-MBJ-KIN-JFK at times, and at other times it did JFK-KIN-JFK, while 1193/1190 did JFK-MBJ-JFK nonstop.


[quote=jfk777 (Reply 7):
What is so great about AA flying to Santo Domingo. If it doesn't fit into the new AA strategy let it go to JetBlue. [/quote]


Not too surprised at this move by AA. Obviously they are focusing their Caribbean flights out of MIA, and leaving the bulk of the JFK-Caribbean legs to B6.

[Edited 2013-01-09 06:29:44]

[Edited 2013-01-09 06:33:35]

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-01-09 06:49:06 and read 10423 times.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 9):
It's official. Will make separate post. SJU hub is pretty much gone.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/09/aa-sju-apr13/

'902

I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: MaddogJT8D
Posted 2013-01-09 07:26:14 and read 10109 times.

Talk about a fall from grace. AA used to have a total lock on the Caribbean from JFK as mentioned by kjfk527, now look at them, it's a shell of its former self. Man how the times have changed. Good riddance though, it was a miserable operation. Some of my worst flying experiences have been aboard AA to and from the Carribean. They had a great thing in that operation and they squandered it by not keeping up with the times and the competition.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: s4popo
Posted 2013-01-09 08:46:38 and read 9533 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 12):
I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...

ATR flying out of SJU will stop on 3/31/13.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-09 09:01:50 and read 9404 times.

I remember a former boss of mine telling me that there was a crash of an AA 727 at STI in the mid 70s. Apparently, it ran off the end of the runway and crashed into a building, killing more than half of those on board. At the time, the runway was less than 5000 feet.

The government blasted part of a mountain, so that the runway could be lengthened to 7000 feet. That way, jets of any size could fly in and out of STI to just about anywhere on the East Coast.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PresRDC
Posted 2013-01-09 09:04:02 and read 9356 times.

So is EIS dropping from the system altogether?

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-01-09 09:16:36 and read 9267 times.

Quoting PresRDC (Reply 16):
So is EIS dropping from the system altogether?

Looks like DOM and EIS are dropping. I assume SLU is also.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2013-01-09 09:44:53 and read 9049 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
I remember a former boss of mine telling me that there was a crash of an AA 727 at STI in the mid 70s. Apparently, it ran off the end of the runway and crashed into a building, killing more than half of those on board. At the time, the runway was less than 5000 feet.

The government blasted part of a mountain, so that the runway could be lengthened to 7000 feet. That way, jets of any size could fly in and out of STI to just about anywhere on the East Coast.

THe crash was at STT, not STI and yes, it was a 727 and I was working for AA at the time in NYC reservations. In my next job at AF I got friendly with a survivor of the crash. It was a very bad crash with the pilot trying to land a few times before finally touching down past the line and then attempting a go-around way too late and slamming into the gas station at the end of the runway.

One of the saddest things was the lead F/A, it was her retirement flight after 35+ years and it was a trip trade.

It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami. Makes me sad to think about SDQ and D.R. going away from JFK. Then again, AA makes me sad, period.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: AA767400
Posted 2013-01-09 09:51:43 and read 8994 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
One of the saddest things was the lead F/A, it was her retirement flight after 35+ years and it was a trip trade.

It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami. Makes me sad to think about SDQ and D.R. going away from JFK. Then again, AA makes me sad, period.


Very sad indeed. A former Trans Caribbean flight attendant lost his wife, and son in that crash. He remained with AA for many years, until retiring about 2 years ago. There are still a few remaining former Trans Caribbean folks at AA. All very senior.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: LGA777
Posted 2013-01-09 10:47:38 and read 8648 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 12):
I'm not able to book any of the SJU ATR flights for random summer dates but JFK-STI/SDQ are still bookable...

I work for another carrier (not AA) and in my carrier's CRS (Central Reservations System) all the ATR SJU flying is zero-ed out meaning schedules are still there but not available for sale but JFK-SDQ/STI still are available for sale so perhaps the JFK-SDQ/STI dropping is not set in stone.

I think one of the main reasons AA still uses the 763 for these routes and not the 757 or 738 is the large amount of cargo which I would think is profitable. Even though B6 has much larger share of the passenger market now in these two city-pairs there are a lot of things you can transport in the belly of a 767 that you cannot in an A-320 (or 738 or 757 for that matter) so as someone who really hopes AA does continue these markets I still will believe when I see a press release and hope I don't.

Cheers

LGA777

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-01-09 11:02:52 and read 8548 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 18):
It seems like the Trans-Caribbean acquisition now is complete, meaning SJU as major hub is over and things go to Miami.

So Trans-Caribbean is now in the same category as TWA, Air Cal and Reno Air.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2013-01-09 14:43:53 and read 7636 times.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 20):
so perhaps the JFK-SDQ/STI dropping is not set in stone.

The company formally announced the cancellation yesterday to employees. My understanding is updates to the CRS usually occur on Saturday night. Now why they haven't at least zeroed out the flights like ATR flying at SJU is anyone's guess. But alas the company has formally said they'll be discontinued April 1. Shocking, but then again, not.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-01-09 15:29:51 and read 7443 times.

Why not try the route with smaller jets and cancel it all together? The "spares excuse" doesn't seem credible unless AA is working something with B6!

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: LGA777
Posted 2013-01-09 15:54:37 and read 7298 times.

Thanks qqflyboy for the very disappointing update. Perhaps the future new management team will re-instate it in the future but not likely. To bad they couldn't at least run it seasonally in Summer and Christmas time when demand is so high a fare that is profitable can be charged and still fill the aircraft.

LGA777

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-09 17:21:12 and read 7174 times.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 24):
Perhaps the future new management team will re-instate it in the future but not likely.

When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and routes re-opened as a consequence of a lower, more competitive cost structure.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: OB1504
Posted 2013-01-09 17:39:23 and read 7070 times.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 20):
I think one of the main reasons AA still uses the 763 for these routes and not the 757 or 738 is the large amount of cargo which I would think is profitable. Even though B6 has much larger share of the passenger market now in these two city-pairs there are a lot of things you can transport in the belly of a 767 that you cannot in an A-320 (or 738 or 757 for that matter) so as someone who really hopes AA does continue these markets I still will believe when I see a press release and hope I don't.

   The 763 also replaced the AB6 on routes out of MIA where the additional cargo capacity is needed.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
So Trans-Caribbean is now in the same category as TWA, Air Cal and Reno Air.

At least their network managed to last nearly forty years!

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 23):
Why not try the route with smaller jets and cancel it all together? The "spares excuse" doesn't seem credible unless AA is working something with B6!

My thought is that AA is just going to codeshare with B6 on the route and leave the low-yielding VFR flying to them.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-01-09 19:22:42 and read 7007 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and routes re-opened as a consequence of a lower, more competitive cost structure.

They're not emerging stand alone. There are no guarantees anything comes back.

More importantly, there are no guarantees that JFK or NYC stays a cornerstone hub,

Sadly, now that they are out of JFK-Carribbean and have a shrinking presence JFK-Europe, one has to wonder what JFK will look like 5 years from now...especially with a merged company and a huge hub in Philly

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: AJMIA
Posted 2013-01-09 19:53:08 and read 6947 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and routes re-opened as a consequence of a lower, more competitive cost structure.

This is what I hope and am thinking too, but you are right, JFK-SDQ/STI probably wont come back because they are dropping it so close to the end of the BK process.

I wonder if MIA will see any upgrades to the DR?
I am thinking MIA-STI would be likely to get another year round flight.

I have heard rumors that AA will return to BUD.

AJMIA

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: BarryH
Posted 2013-01-09 21:02:11 and read 6835 times.

AA bas the best revenue management people and tools in the industry. Most of what are considered "best practices" today came from AA. That includes married segment logic which prevents booking discount classes on a $69 fare matching Spirit from PDX to DFW but allows the same class to be booked PDX/DFW/GRU. Do people here really believe specific routes, markets, or regions are being cut randomly? If they are being cut they aren't producing the revenue or yields applying resources to other markets would deliver. Having 100% load factors to SDQ and a negative margin is bad, not good. And smart management doesn't arm chair quarterback their revenue management teams; they listen to them.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: runway23
Posted 2013-01-10 01:29:00 and read 6646 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
They're not emerging stand alone. There are no guarantees anything comes back.

More importantly, there are no guarantees that JFK or NYC stays a cornerstone hub,

Sadly, now that they are out of JFK-Carribbean and have a shrinking presence JFK-Europe, one has to wonder what JFK will look like 5 years from now...especially with a merged company and a huge hub in Philly

I'm actually ready to bet that NYC will stay a cornerstone for AA regardless of whether a merger happens or not. There are too many corporate contracts that rely on having a minimum level of service from NYC.

What I do expect is AA to continue shifting its focus away from Caribbean flying (which can be done via MIA anyway) and focus more on connecting the dots to destinations that are likely to offer more connectivity to a more international network from JFK and a natural bias towards business routes from LGA.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-01-10 04:49:57 and read 6486 times.

Barry, I appreciate your assessment.
As someone who worked there through much of the 2000s, I heard statements like this a lot.

Truth is, AA hasnt led the way in anything for a long time.

What is true here is that AA owned travel from NYC to the DR, PR and the Caribbean until not to long ago.

Low yielding is the excuse we hear a lot. However, they had A300s all over this route. They have to find a way to compete beyond Miami and Dallas...or they are going to be gobbled up. It is that simple

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-10 05:00:32 and read 6465 times.

B6 is going to need bigger planes to support all this extra traffic they're picking up left and right.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: panamair
Posted 2013-01-10 08:43:04 and read 6261 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
B6 is going to need bigger planes to support all this extra traffic they're picking up left and right.

Delta recently also bumped up their JFK-SDQ/STI nonstops to 2x daily from 1x daily; JFK-STI is 1x 73H; 1x 757; while JFK-SDQ is 2x 73H.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-01-10 08:52:54 and read 6231 times.

Quoting panamair (Reply 33):

Delta recently also bumped up their JFK-SDQ/STI nonstops to 2x daily from 1x daily; JFK-STI is 1x 73H; 1x 757; while JFK-SDQ is 2x 73H.

This is probably the third or fourth time they've done that before pulling out--I don't know who they think they're fooling or what they think is going to be different this time.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2013-01-10 09:17:20 and read 6150 times.

It doesnt mean they will pull out. They could be adjusting the route.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-01-10 09:21:35 and read 6141 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and routes re-opened as a consequence of a lower, more competitive cost structure.

Somehow I doubt this.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: AA767400
Posted 2013-01-10 09:25:37 and read 6153 times.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 28):
I have heard rumors that AA will return to BUD.

That's weird since Malev is now gone. I don't know if it feasible, I mean DL barely operates it 3 months out of the year?

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-10 09:43:48 and read 6103 times.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 37):
I mean DL barely operates it 3 months out of the year?

DL doesn't operate it at all.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-10 11:12:45 and read 5988 times.

That is really unbelievable. AA used to "own" the DR and had so much power over the airports' politics in the island. It is hard to imagine that they will abandon the most popular routes to the DR: JFK-SDQ & SDQ-SJU

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-01-10 11:21:23 and read 5936 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Thread starter):
some rumors around that AA and B6 are also talking...anything is possible.

They are definitely talking, but about what? A merger, a code share, One World, acquisition of AA's LGA slots? I suspect it is not a merger...YET. I think the slot deal is very likely. I think AA will demand a tighter relationship in return for that and B6 is trying minimize the extent of that relationship.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-01-10 11:27:39 and read 5912 times.

Quoting panamair (Reply 33):
Delta recently also bumped up their JFK-SDQ/STI nonstops to 2x daily from 1x daily; JFK-STI is 1x 73H; 1x 757; while JFK-SDQ is 2x 73H.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
This is probably the third or fourth time they've done that before pulling out--I don't know who they think they're fooling or what they think is going to be different this time.

The capacity has stuck around for nearly a full year (it started flying last February) and is showing no signs of pullback.

Though for most days of week it's 2x 737-800 for both and has been since last February (the occasional Saturday only or holiday bump up to a 757 has happened in both markets, but 95% of the flights to both have been on 737-800s).

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: AA767400
Posted 2013-01-10 11:40:44 and read 5859 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 38):
DL doesn't operate it at all.

Thanks for the correction oracle.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-01-10 12:00:45 and read 5823 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 41):
The capacity has stuck around for nearly a full year (it started flying last February) and is showing no signs of pullback.

I think they're trying to stay in the market just out of brute strength/longevity. They still generally have a discount to other carriers on the same routes in terms of fare, so I don't see how it's better this time around.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-01-10 12:07:23 and read 5812 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
When AA emerges from BK, a lot of old flying is going to come back. Not saying JFKSDQ/STI will, but we are naturally going to see old stations and routes re-opened as a consequence of a lower, more competitive cost structure.


Really? Like which gems will AA bring back? ORD-DEL?

I know that legacy carriers have suffered somewhat on flights from NYC to the Caribbean, due to B6 most likely.

I remember when CO had widebodies and a heavy presence from EWR to SJU. The route is boosted for peak travel, but in the off season it's only one narrowbody a day.

I remember when the AA A300 crashed from JFK to SDQ. I recall hearing that that route was supposedly one of their key routes from JFK for AA. How times have changed.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-10 12:36:15 and read 5753 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 44):
Really? Like which gems will AA bring back? ORD-DEL?

Delhi returning as a station would not shock me at all. Nor would a resumption of, say, JFKBRU, ORDFRA and/or JFKFRA, re-opening Osaka and Barranquilla; or bringing back some regional/domestic flying from Chicago to current stations, like ORDSMF, ORDPDX and ORDCRW.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-10 15:26:31 and read 5572 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 45):
or bringing back some regional/domestic flying from Chicago to current stations, like ORDSMF, ORDPDX and ORDCRW.

As a long-suffering American FF at ORD, this would make me very happy. It seems like every day I read about yet another mainline destination being handed over to Eagle, or yet another long-haul point being discontinued. I'm really hopeful that new labor contracts and more flexible scope clauses will help AA figure out how to compete in Chicago. It's getting very tiresome boarding ERJ after ERJ after ERJ while looking at banners advertising new aircraft and premium cabins that we're not going to see at our airport. The CR7s aren't horrible (why bother upgrading to F when row 5 in coach has twice as much legroom!), but some of the stage lengths we're subjected to (SLC, IAH, ABQ) are really pushing the comfort limits of that small cabin.

Back on track though, I agree it's disappointing to see another Caribbean destination get drawn down from JFK, particularly one that used to be such a high-volume station for American. But times change, even if it's a bummer for us enthusiasts. Their leadership was stuck in 1990s mentality until about 2008, and in many ways still is. At least they are finally waking up to the fact that they aren't a leader anymore and are taking steps to move forward.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-15 07:45:08 and read 5011 times.

So it is official: JFK-SDQ & JFK-STI cancelled after April 1st.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01...rom-new-york-to-dominican-capital/

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-01-15 07:57:30 and read 4954 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 44):
remember when CO had widebodies and a heavy presence from EWR to SJU. The route is boosted for peak travel, but in the off season it's only one narrowbody a day.

CO never flew widebodies on a scheduled basis to SJU.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-15 09:54:41 and read 4801 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 48):
CO never flew widebodies on a scheduled basis to SJU.

They absolutely did:

From the April 2, 1995 OAG

EWR-SJU (CO)

2 727, 1 A300.

http://www.departedflights.com/EWR95p6.html

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-01-16 06:59:03 and read 4463 times.

Perhaps AA is working on a deeper codeshare agreement w/B6 on some Caribbean markets. Isn't JFK a "cornerstone" city for AA; it would make sense to add NOT cut markets. Lots of rumors going around the AA JFK grapevine!  . These moves are shocking!!!

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-16 07:55:12 and read 4383 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 50):
it would make sense to add NOT cut markets.



Not if they are losing money. AA is using Chapter 11 to reorganize, AA has been using this reorganization to figure out where they are making money and where they are losing money. The hard part is looking at where they are losing money and decide whether they should try to make changes to turn around a particular area's profitability or to simply cut their losses. I think the Dominican Republic is not something worth the resources as it's VFR, leisure and heavily contested by competitors (B6).

AA just doesn't have the mass at JFK to muscle their way on these markets, they do at MIA.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-01-16 08:26:29 and read 4345 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 48):
CO never flew widebodies on a scheduled basis to SJU.

OK back in 1995 -- not in the last 10 years. It's mostly been 738s.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-16 08:38:29 and read 4311 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 52):
OK back in 1995 -- not in the last 10 years. It's mostly been 738s.



Correct, also I think there were a couple instances where a DC-10 was scheduled during certain holidays during the late '90s. Nothing daily though. It's been 738s and 757-300s the last ten years, also a 737-900ER to Aguadilla.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-01-16 08:55:55 and read 4281 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 50):
it would make sense to add NOT cut markets

Why would it make sense to add markets that lose money?

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2013-01-16 09:26:52 and read 4246 times.

Well, if AA costs are now lower they should be able to operate markets (SDQ/STI) that DL flies from JFK. AA should have a larger customer base in Dominican Rep than DL.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-01-16 10:06:02 and read 4182 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 55):
Well, if AA costs are now lower they should be able to operate markets (SDQ/STI) that DL flies from JFK. AA should have a larger customer base in Dominican Rep than DL.

It doesnt matter much the costs, those are trash yield markets. Thats why the A300 was so perfect on them. Lots to fill the trunk, nothing to fill up front.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-16 10:14:29 and read 4164 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 51):
AA just doesn't have the mass at JFK to muscle their way on these markets, they do at MIA.

That suggests the flights were empty. Flights were always packed.

And you don't need much mass at JFK for these markets, which are each in excess of 900 PDEW.

AA just doesn't want to bother with trash yield JFK-DR right now.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-01-16 10:21:04 and read 4139 times.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 55):
Well, if AA costs are now lower they should be able to operate markets (SDQ/STI) that DL flies from JFK. AA should have a larger customer base in Dominican Rep than DL.

DL is by no means doing better--their fares are lower and LF lighter

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-16 10:40:15 and read 4081 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 57):
That suggests the flights were empty. Flights were always packed.

No, that suggests they can't muscle out their competition by overwhelming them similar to what UA is currently doing to VX at EWR. I have no doubt AA can pack plane loads of folks from JFK-Dominican Republic, what I doubt is that AA has the muscle to make B6 back off.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 57):
And you don't need much mass at JFK for these markets, which are each in excess of 900 PDEW.

No, you need higher fares to make it profitable. Which again if you can't muscle your competition your going to lose, AA thus far has done superbly at this at DFW and MIA. They have done rather poorly at this in JFK.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2013-01-16 11:00:11 and read 4025 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
No, that suggests they can't muscle out their competition by overwhelming them similar to what UA is currently doing to VX at EWR

Yeah, but to be fare UA and VX are competeing for a high yield and high mass market EWR (NYC)-SFO/LAX.

NYC-Domincan Republic has niether that amount of mass or yield.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-16 11:32:54 and read 3979 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
No, you need higher fares to make it profitable. Which again if you can't muscle your competition your going to lose, AA thus far has done superbly at this at DFW and MIA. They have done rather poorly at this in JFK.

What other examples other than Caribbean/Florida can you give me? There's Brussels - AA failed there - but where else? JFKMAN where AA kicked Delta off the route? JFKBCN where AA quickly became the leading O&D carrier? JFKMXP where AA charges the highest average fare? JFKLAX?

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-01-16 11:36:08 and read 3958 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 52):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 48):CO never flew widebodies on a scheduled basis to SJU.
OK back in 1995 -- not in the last 10 years. It's mostly been 738s.

Yes, CO flew widebobies to SJU in the 90's. I did not mention the decade. I guess some of us are such old foggies.

I wonder if UA is secetly thinking of withdrawing from EWR-SDQ.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-01-16 11:50:37 and read 3940 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 62):
I wonder if UA is secetly thinking of withdrawing from EWR-SDQ.

I highly doubt it, EWR is considered a hub in the UAL system and basically the only hub in the UAL system that can support an SDQ flight. That flight is safe. UAL is in a much stronger position than AA at the moment and just for market presence they would keep that flight.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-01-16 11:52:53 and read 3946 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 61):
What other examples other than Caribbean/Florida can you give me? There's Brussels - AA failed there - but where else? JFKMAN where AA kicked Delta off the route? JFKBCN where AA quickly became the leading O&D carrier? JFKMXP where AA charges the highest average fare? JFKLAX?

Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Oakland, Long Beach, San Jose, IAD.

Topic: RE: Rumor: AA Cancels JFK-SDQ / JFK-STI Routes April 1st!
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-01-16 20:06:35 and read 3737 times.

Thank you STT.

What you are talking about is market relevance. And AA at JFK and NYC as a whole has less market relevance.

Trash yields to DR, Florida, the Caribbean? Too much competition to Europe? Secondary city transcons eat to much fuel with not enough yield? Smaller NE cities too costly on RJs vs props?

We hear excuse after excuse after excuse about AA at JFK.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 57):
AA just doesn't want to bother with trash yield JFK-DR right now.

What are they interested in serving out of JFK?


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