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Topic: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: deltabobo
Posted 2013-01-11 16:56:45 and read 24136 times.

Another bites the dust!

I feel sorry for all the employees who were affected by this...They are in my thoughts and prayers.

The article from the local Rockford newspaper

http://www.wrex.com/story/20567156/2...international-airlines-liquidating

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: United727
Posted 2013-01-11 17:04:49 and read 24123 times.

When Berkhoff Industries of Rockford (Parent company of Ryan) put their prized "VIP" MD-88 (which they spent 2 MIL on VIP upgrades, just to let it sit for the remainder of its days) out to pasture in the "derelict aircraft pad" at RFD, I figured something bad was going to happen. I've been hearing horror stories from employess for the past couple months.   I wish only the best to the former employees of Ryan.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-01-11 17:11:24 and read 24049 times.

The good days of flying for Apple Vacations and US Army are gone and so is the airline.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-01-11 17:31:22 and read 23941 times.

They may have financing lined up, but not for more than a week. Their AMC flying has been removed.
It is quite doubtful they will get back into the air.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: deltabobo
Posted 2013-01-11 18:02:07 and read 23772 times.

Quoting United727 (Reply 1):

It was Rubloff Development Group & It was a VIP MD-87 (N167AS)

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-11 18:09:23 and read 23729 times.

I wonder where those 777s and that 330 will go........

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: United727
Posted 2013-01-11 18:12:17 and read 23706 times.

Quoting deltabobo (Reply 4):
Rubloff Development Group & It was a VIP MD-87 (N167AS)

Little details..lol...thanks you much for the correction! "Was" would be incorrect verbiage....It still "IS" sitting ready for SCRAP.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-01-11 18:13:36 and read 23705 times.

Very sad! I feel terrible for the employees, and hope they find work soon.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-11 18:23:29 and read 23604 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
I wonder where those 777s and that 330 will go........

While they had plans in the past to get some, they do not have any 777s, just one (2000 built) A332.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-11 18:25:39 and read 23595 times.

My thread from this morning was deleted because the mods said that it was based on rumors. Unfortunately the rumors are true. Ryan flew the A330 and a 767 back to RFD last night in anticipation of the shutdown. I highly doubt that Ryan will be back. Best of luck to the employees and their families.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-11 19:08:31 and read 23357 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):

Oh I'm mistaking it for omni.

So where will that 330 go?
DL?   

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-01-11 19:28:38 and read 23241 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
My thread from this morning was deleted because the mods said that it was based on rumors. Unfortunately the rumors are true. Ryan flew the A330 and a 767 back to RFD last night in anticipation of the shutdown. I highly doubt that Ryan will be back. Best of luck to the employees and their families.

They have now announced liquidation. Very sad. Aitrran737 knows his stuff.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: westindian425
Posted 2013-01-12 00:14:00 and read 22781 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
My thread from this morning was deleted because the mods said that it was based on rumors. Unfortunately the rumors are true. Ryan flew the A330 and a 767 back to RFD last night in anticipation of the shutdown. I highly doubt that Ryan will be back. Best of luck to the employees and their families.
Quoting FI642 (Reply 11):
They have now announced liquidation. Very sad. Aitrran737 knows his stuff.

So are the mods going to apologize?  

I haven't heard too much about Ryan outside of the charters. I'd be interested to see what events led to them closing down.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: phunc
Posted 2013-01-12 02:42:53 and read 22184 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
just one (2000 built) A332.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
So where will that 330 go?

They did lease an A333 from VS which was returned to VS as G-VINE last year - or is this a different one?

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: GCT64
Posted 2013-01-12 02:55:30 and read 22066 times.

Quoting phunc (Reply 13):
or is this a different one?

A different one: A332 originally ex-LX then to Atlasjet (including SV ops).

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: MYT332
Posted 2013-01-12 04:00:58 and read 21444 times.

All the best to Ted Burson, Admiral of the old Ghana fleet at Ryan.


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Here's to finding new work, just like RD did.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: alphaomega
Posted 2013-01-12 04:40:41 and read 21018 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
Quoting Polot (Reply 8):

Oh I'm mistaking it for omni.

So where will that 330 go?
DL?

I believe the 330 was actually leased from VS - they were down to only the 330 and 2 763s as of yesterday, all of which I believe were leased. They may have owned the MD-80s but they parked those a few weeks ago.

Very sad and hope the employees find work soon. With the AMC flying drying up fast and the majors like UA and DL picking up a large chunk of charter operations even with some big AMC flying, I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlas as the only one left standing after another year. Difficult to compete as a charter operator flying AMC or any other commercial pax flights when UA and DL have IFE and premium seating and all you have is economy with old TVs in the aisles. I think Omni may be OK with their 777s and fairly established contracts out west - made a good decision ditching the DC-10s, as much as I hated to see them go!

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: par13del
Posted 2013-01-12 04:49:08 and read 20903 times.

So the USA does actually allow airlines to go bust in chpt.11 versus always resurrecting them like DL, UA and possible AA, say it ain't so   I could not resist.

Our best wishes to the workers, the aviation industry is growing, however, the initial boost is being taken up by staff working longer hours and putting in more overtime, versus new hires, time is the issue.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: JA
Posted 2013-01-12 05:47:20 and read 20288 times.

How much are they owed by Atlasjet?

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: ElGrandeB777CA
Posted 2013-01-12 06:49:35 and read 19498 times.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlas as the only one left standing after another year.

Atlas growth has been on the back of others money...Atlas will be the weakest of the supplemental carriers when the dust settles over the next year or two...Evergreen or World Airways are my pick for the next to fall. Omni has no debt, so unless some investment group buys them and steals their credit and loads the airline up with debt and runs with the money, Omni will be around for the time being....Cheers

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: sunking737
Posted 2013-01-12 06:51:50 and read 19476 times.

We now have a clue to who Peoplexpress has in mind for an AOC.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-12 10:31:00 and read 16713 times.

Quoting ElGrandeB777CA (Reply 19):

Atlas growth has been on the back of others money...Atlas will be the weakest of the supplemental carriers when the dust settles over the next year or two...Evergreen or World Airways are my pick for the next to fall. Omni has no debt, so unless some investment group buys them and steals their credit and loads the airline up with debt and runs with the money, Omni will be around for the time being....Cheers

Evergreen is in a perilous position right now and their days may be numbered. World is poised to come out of Chapter 11 pretty soon and should be able to be competitive for quite some time. I think Omni made around 90 million last year. They are a smart company with low costs and people running them who know how to diversify their product and not rely on AMC for everything.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: alphaomega
Posted 2013-01-12 12:02:33 and read 15656 times.

[quote=ElGrandeB777CA,reply=19]Quoting alphaomega (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlas as the only one left standing after another year.

Atlas growth has been on the back of others money...Atlas will be the weakest of the supplemental carriers when the dust settles over the next year or two...Evergreen or World Airways are my pick for the next to fall. Omni has no debt, so unless some investment group buys them and steals their credit and loads the airline up with debt and runs with the money, Omni will be around for the time being....Cheers[/quot

I think Evergreen is soon to be on the way out, World and North American (Global Aviation Holdings) may come out of Ch 11 but ever since they went in last Feb, they said they would be out in June, then Oct, then Dec, and here it is almost a year later. I hope they do pull out but their fleet is less than half what it used to be. Southern Air is also in a pickle, but I would agree with you on Omni - they own their aircraft, have solid vacation routes, and some AMC to supplement (not dependent on AMC like the others. Atlas is still the heavyweight and I don't see them flirting with Ch. 11 anytime soon, regardless of how their growth comes about.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: duckbilled
Posted 2013-01-12 14:18:39 and read 14106 times.

As someone without insider knowledge (and flies mostly for tourism), why have all of these charters gone belly up?

10 years ago, many of the flights to holiday destinations were handled by Ryan International, ATA and similar. It seems like after 2003, many of these charters began to focus on military flights. Scheduled air was still cheap to places like Cancun and companies like Funjet and Apple began to use scheduled air rather than charters. Now that prices have exploded for scheduled air (100% increase for flights to Cancun on Delta from 2010, for example), it seems like the charters would be able revert back to their old business models and stay in business.

Clearly my assumption is incorrect but I was wondering if someone could explain the issue.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: Tardis
Posted 2013-01-12 14:57:53 and read 13575 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):

My thread from this morning was deleted because the mods said that it was based on rumors. Unfortunately the rumors are true. Ryan flew the A330 and a 767 back to RFD last night in anticipation of the shutdown. I highly doubt that Ryan will be back. Best of luck to the employees and their families.

I know you knew what was going on. Apparently so did FI642. Very sad another carrier is gone.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: Boeing757/767
Posted 2013-01-12 15:10:49 and read 13780 times.

Atlas Air the weakest of the supplemental carriers? Huh? Remember, the bulk of Atlas's business is cargo, plus some of the pax flying is scheduled for SonAir. And some CMI flying for Boeing and DHL. This is a diverse company with a huge fleet. Not going anywhere!

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: reality
Posted 2013-01-12 15:22:25 and read 13550 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 17):
So the USA does actually allow airlines to go bust in chpt.11

Actually...nothing new. It does happen. Remember PanAm, Eastern, etc?

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: gdg9
Posted 2013-01-12 15:31:16 and read 13686 times.

Atlas Air stock closed at $45.42 Friday.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-01-12 16:08:50 and read 13178 times.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 25):
This is a diverse company with a huge fleet. Not going anywhere!

   And a very profitable enterprise.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: CO7e7
Posted 2013-01-12 16:15:10 and read 13155 times.

Very sad indeed.

I remember flying on one of their 763s (N125RD) when I finished my tour of duty in Iraq. The routing was: KWI-LEJ-YQX-POB

It was by far my favorite time EVER on plane, as I was returning home from war. The crew were very gracious, and made all of us feel at welcome.


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Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: maxamuus
Posted 2013-01-12 18:35:39 and read 12295 times.

Sad to see them fold. One of my first flights by myself was on a Ryan flight back in the day when they were flying for Morris Air.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: PMUA787
Posted 2013-01-12 19:58:41 and read 12102 times.

I remember when they had A320's and flew them for AirTran back in 2003-2004 out of ATL to LAX/SFO/LAS and occasionally MCO before FL got their own B737-700's.




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Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: mke717spotter
Posted 2013-01-12 20:57:13 and read 11977 times.

Well, I guess things are going to become even quieter at RFD now. I've actually had my fair share of RD flights, all of them Funjet Vacations charters from MKE to CUN/PUJ/PVR.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-01-13 09:15:52 and read 11392 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 21):
Evergreen is in a perilous position right now and their days may be numbered. World is poised to come out of Chapter 11 pretty soon and should be able to be competitive for quite some time. I think Omni made around 90 million last year. They are a smart company with low costs and people running them who know how to diversify their product and not rely on AMC for everything.

Evergreen this operating quarter will be operating at an estimated $11 million dollar deficit. Dell Smith has had to use his own money for many of the operational expenses. N491EV had a lien issued against it 2 weeks ago at JFK for failure to pay the lease on one of its engines. The last payroll of 2012 was on time except for the Pilots that was after a shame piece was written in the local paper. Meanwhile Dell still continues to move forward with the construction of the hotel and wedding chapel, I hope that it can be finished and not become an eyesore to the community.

With the recent developments of a scheduled escalated troop re-deployment out of Afghanistan with a majority of the troops reduced to 20-30K by end of this summer Evergreen will surely be affected. There is no new civilian charter market.

I interviewed at Ryan 2 years ago in RFD. They had a small but nice operation.

BTW speaking of EIA... has anyone got any images of the new 744 N794BA that EIA was suppose to fly revenue in mid December?

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-01-13 10:05:20 and read 11236 times.

Quoting duckbilled (Reply 23):
(100% increase for flights to Cancun on Delta from 2010, for example), it seems like the charters would be able revert back to their old business models and stay in business.

Where are you travelling from and what month were you looking at for travel to CUN?

I've been to the Mayan Riviera on several occasions since 2003 on scheduled air (DL/B6/AA/US) and my flights have ranged from $249 (2007 on DL non-stop) to $525 (2004) and I've traveled either March or June.


To stay on topic VX has also been doing BOS-CUN/PUJ charters this year for TNT/Funjet. These are not bookable on the VX website just TNT's. Its pretty easy for an established airline to start sending an extra plane not going back to LAX/SFO to one of these destinations for the weekend then to have the traditional charter companies come in.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: ElGrandeB777CA
Posted 2013-01-13 10:27:24 and read 11161 times.

Pan Am not going anywhere...
Eastern not going anywhere...
Braniff not going anywhere...
ATA not going anywhere....
Northwest not going anywhere....
TWA not going anywhere.....
Next not going anywhere....Only the Banks know...But,

Atlas has a debt of 1.2 Billion...Yes, Billion on their books...Yes Atlas is making money, but in a service industry if your costs are higher then your competitor eventually your profits will move into negative values. As an investor in Atlas I hope it does well, but I see the quarterly reports and in the long term...???? who knows...Atlas has obligations that create decisions to be made that sometimes need to please short term reports for investor reasons...Business 101....I put my money on Omni as being the Supplemental that out lives everyone. No debt, privately owned, low operating costs and labor costs...As long as the owners want to own an airline...plus Omni doesn't answer or is pressured by 3rd and 4th party investors to make decisions about growth. They can turn work away and leave an airplane parked for weeks and not bleed money like those airlines that have higher fixed costs....

[Edited 2013-01-13 10:34:58]

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: SKC
Posted 2013-01-13 13:04:47 and read 10915 times.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 20):
We now have a clue to who Peoplexpress has in mind for an AOC.

Do you seriously believe that a group of investors would have made a business plan months ago with the Ryan certificate in mind? They would have made this decision prior to RD having even filed Chap 11, much less this.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: skytonysfo
Posted 2013-01-13 22:58:41 and read 10424 times.

I thought Ryan International was doing business with Atlas JET of Turkey not Altas Air of the United States. Atlas Jet was the carrier that failed to pay Ryan International monies to operate the A330.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: Newark727
Posted 2013-01-13 23:06:03 and read 10398 times.

I thought Ryan had already gone, didn't they go bankrupt a couple of years ago? I hope this doesn't turn out too badly for the former employees.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: Jamake1
Posted 2013-01-14 02:11:25 and read 10174 times.

Quoting skytonysfo (Reply 37):
I thought Ryan International was doing business with Atlas JET of Turkey not Altas Air of the United States. Atlas Jet was the carrier that failed to pay Ryan International monies to operate the A330.

You are correct. The other posters were merely talking about Atlas Air (US) because they also fly military charters, but unlike Ryan International, Atlas (US) has a far more diversified portfolio of products (i.e. the SonAir contract, cargo operations - both wet and dry leases, as well as military troop movements). Ryan's operations became too heavily dependent on military flying, which has since dried up...

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: duckbilled
Posted 2013-01-15 02:40:20 and read 9414 times.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 34):
Where are you travelling from and what month were you looking at for travel to CUN?

I've been to the Mayan Riviera on several occasions since 2003 on scheduled air (DL/B6/AA/US) and my flights have ranged from $249 (2007 on DL non-stop) to $525 (2004) and I've traveled either March or June.

DTW-CUN - done the flight about 14 times in the past 7 years.

You are right. The flight was always $300-$400. If you took 1-stops you could get it for less. Delta has cut capacity on the route and reduced non-stops out of DTW. Now, you will have a tough time finding this flight for less than $600 unless you go with NK. To me, it would seem like this would create some opportunity.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-16 06:21:55 and read 8757 times.

Sounds like the A330 went to MZJ yesterday, and a 767 is stuck in Brazil waiting on a part to clear customs. Also heard that Evergreen may close the doors tomorrow. Not a good week for the industry if that happens.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-01-16 10:59:34 and read 8513 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 41):
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 41):
Sounds like the A330 went to MZJ yesterday, and a 767 is stuck in Brazil waiting on a part to clear customs. Also heard that Evergreen may close the doors tomorrow. Not a good week for the industry if that happens.

Airtans... where did you hear that at???

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-16 11:06:05 and read 8472 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 42):

Airtans... where did you hear that at???

It's on another forum

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-01-16 11:07:36 and read 8467 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 43):
It's on another forum

Which??

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: luv2fly
Posted 2013-01-16 11:10:39 and read 8449 times.

Quoting duckbilled (Reply 40):
DTW-CUN - done the flight about 14 times in the past 7 years.

You are right. The flight was always $300-$400. If you took 1-stops you could get it for less. Delta has cut capacity on the route and reduced non-stops out of DTW. Now, you will have a tough time finding this flight for less than $600 unless you go with NK. To me, it would seem like this would create some opportunity

Price wise yes, though you need to find a tour operator to sell the seats and take the risk. Though having lived in DTW and worked for a tour operator there, there is a mrket for charters. Just no one looking to do them.

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-16 12:54:08 and read 8315 times.

I know when I left AZA, Ryan International was picking up some of the "Conair" flights and ICE flights. I wonder what is happening now and what lies in the future for Falcon Air Express, another airline that relays on gov charters and vaction charters....

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: usxguy
Posted 2013-01-16 13:26:24 and read 8200 times.

Falcon is also doing runs for DAE - the "new" Dutch Antilles airline... leaves MIA daily at 545AM (eek!)

Topic: RE: Ryan International Airlines Ceases Operations
Username: deltabobo
Posted 2013-01-16 23:02:51 and read 7944 times.

Here's the issue with RD. In 2005, Ron Ryan sold the company to a commercial real estate firm in RFD, Rubloff Development. With the current state of the economy, the owners decided to bleed all the money from the airline, a very profitable one, into their failed real estate ventures around Rockford. Then, the AMC adjusted RIA's flying due to big players getting out of the game. With that, that Ryan lost its revenue, but its costs were still sky-high (no pun-intended).

In Feb, 2012, Global Aviation (parent company of World & North American files Ch.11). Shortly thereafter, Ryan files too.
But the mismanagement of the owners for so long, the US Bankruptcy placed the company into debtor-in-possession. They brought in Jeff Potter to "shake up the place, but looking at his track record...has destroyed more than he's fixed.

1972-2013, Ryan International Airlines, We were not just an airlines; we were a family!


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