Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5664764/

Topic: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-01-17 16:05:02 and read 22378 times.

As part 2 become too long, we are opening Part 3 for discussions in order to make easier for users with low speed internet connections.

Link to Part 2
OFFICIAL: New AA Livery Today! Part 2 (by Luxair747SP Jan 17 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Please continue to enjoy the website.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2013-01-17 16:14:54 and read 22339 times.

So right now, there is only the 738 painted? I think the 777 will look much better!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-17 16:21:08 and read 22257 times.

The livery is hideous. I hope they keep the current US livery when the merger happens.

[Edited 2013-01-17 16:58:34]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Acey
Posted 2013-01-17 16:24:48 and read 22210 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 2):

So right now, there is only the 738 painted? I think the 777 will look much better!

At least a few 777 should have the majority or part of the paint done, with just the tail and decals to go. I agree that it looks better on the 777. I'd be surprised if they don't end up putting stripes or the logo on the outside of the 738's winglets as well. Helps to break up the monotony of the fuselage.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: us330
Posted 2013-01-17 16:33:51 and read 22111 times.

I don't mind the lightening of the colors or the font, but they screwed up everything else.
I was hoping they'd keep the AA and the Eagle, but they did neither.
Whereas the last AA livery is seen as a classic brand that set a trend when it was created, this livery merely follows an existing trend of billboard logos. They missed a great opportunity to make retro cool again in the form of bringing back the lightning bolt cheatline, and make it in red white and blue.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2013-01-17 16:34:55 and read 22080 times.

OK, everyone is going to think I'm nuts but after staring at it for 30 minutes I actually have already come to accept it and think it's sort of cool. From pictures I see it in flight it realize is a stylized flag with a very cool logo. I even sort of like the plainness of the grey. Weird that it grew on me that quickly.

Yes, it is clearly Americana to the MAX and that's a good thing because that's the name of the company and that's their brand, AMERICAN.

So here's where I am about 45 minutes into this - it's bold, it's contemporary and it's going to be a classic for the stylized tail. Let's see where I am after a few hours!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: vishaljo
Posted 2013-01-17 16:35:15 and read 22067 times.

Sorry but why did they do away with that Absolutely Iconic Livery?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-01-17 16:35:37 and read 22065 times.

Will ask again in this thread.

When will the first revenue service with the newly painted 738 take place?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-01-17 16:40:12 and read 21979 times.

Anyone wanna take a guess when a new AA.com will come out or at least when the logo up top will reflect the new logo?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-17 16:41:17 and read 21983 times.

I am still in shock, sad and angry about this mess. This is a missed opportunity to create something truly modern, unique and creative, but we got this livery and logo borrowed from somewhere else:

Logo: I like it, but there is nothing new or creative about it. Most people see Greyhound or Air France. For somebody looking at it for the first time, not knowing that AA had an eagle as a logo, they wouldn't see an eagle unless somebody explains it. so, FAIL!.

TAIL: HORRID! Tacky! cheap! OVERUSED!... there is nothing new, modern or creative about it (the new Aeroflot and BA did a better job with their flags on the tail). The tail design doesn't match or goes with the rest of the plane and that design is not seen anywhere else in the branding inside the plane or at airport or elsewhere, so it DOES NOT BELONG THERE!!!. I love the US flag, but it is not done correctly in this tail and has been used too many times on airplanes (charter companies and ugly Family Airlines, as an example)

Branding: I like the branding at airports and inside and elsewhere, but I think abandoning the scissor eagle is a big mistake. An stylized eagle should be on a red painted engine and on the tail. The tail should have been the new logo with a subtle eagle painted in light vanishing silver (think of the BMI livery with very subtle colors showing a design in the background)

Main concern: The goal here is to show a new, modern, creative AA that attracts premium travelers. This tail translates to WALMART / cheap / tacky and goes again the image they are trying to convey, so it doesnt work. For example, one of my favorites liveries is the Spirit Airlines pixel/silver livery which I think has been one of the best ever (unique, creative and modern), but as a new ULCC they wanted to convey a new image as cheap, fun and simply, so i think the new (tacky) livery says that and it works for their rebranding. This new AA livery doesn't work for what the new AA is trying to be.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-01-17 16:44:03 and read 21943 times.

As an AA retiree, I have to say I'm a little disappointed. But I'll get used to it, and I'm already moving on with my life.

I am more surprised than disappointed, however. While we groaned or joked about having to put a double A (AA) in everything {AAdvantage, Senior TrAAveler, AAirpass, and jokes about DelAAys, LAAte, "Thank you for calling Uh-Uh-merican", etc.), the AA was unmistakably tied to the company and more recognizable than most logos anywhere. Without that, even the frequent flyer program remaining AAdvantage will seem disconnected. I don't see the new swoosh as having that instant recognition.

Other notes: when the now outgoing livery was first displayed, the tail had the big AA but no eagle. The scissor eagle was added after a hue and cry from traditionalist employees.

On the tail .... well... it is what it is. But I think that applying the new swooshing eagle logo to the tail would have looked too much like the 1960 United Air Lines tail, and we can't have that!

On the swoosh...I think it will be fine pointing in either direction, unlike many other logos. Am I one of the few that noticed that the NW bowling shoe and final NWA liveries had the compass logo on the tail or fuselage --- properly pointing to the North West on the port side, but (so that it faced forward) pointed to the North East on the starboard side? I always thought that was amusing, not being affiliated with NW.

On repainting the fleet: it may take a while as the economics of taking a plane out of service just for repainting may not be what AA needs at this point. Most, I'm sure, will be redone in tandem with their heavy checks, when they have to be stripped anyway. On the outgoing fleet (762, MD80, excess 763, etc.), I don't see them being repainted in the new scheme unless they are do for a heavy check before they leave the fleet.
--- However, I can see a quicky job to refresh the fleet in shorter order by just redoing the tail, removing the cheatline stripes and replacing the stick-on title and logos with the new ones, with the fuselage remaining unpainted until later.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: seahawks7757
Posted 2013-01-17 16:44:43 and read 21939 times.

I love the new logo, from a distance can't stand the livery but up close I love the detail in the tail. But only up-close. Otherwise the thing is a fugly eyesore from a distance.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-01-17 16:47:48 and read 21910 times.

I'm thinking -- a livery so imbecilicly simplistic and child-like would be *really easy* to superimpose over both AA and USAirways airframes in the event of a merger.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aacun
Posted 2013-01-17 16:48:23 and read 21877 times.

Well, now we have to wait till next week to find out what our new unifors will be like. I cant wait to get out of the blue. And I think the days are counted.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: PA110
Posted 2013-01-17 16:48:58 and read 21869 times.

Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters? Honestly, so many people getting their panties in a bunch. Personally, I like the logo, and would have loved to see it used on the tail. But then again, I remind myself I'm just a spectator, and can go about my day fretting about things that really matter. In the greater scheme of things, I have zero input (along with just about 99.9% of A.net).

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-01-17 16:49:15 and read 21871 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7):

I read in an internal publication that it may go on a roadshow to show it off around the system before taking revenue flights. But it could just be slotted into the rotation at any time anyway. They made a big deal about the special retro jets and other commemorative sub-liveries in the past, but any "road showing" was simply accomplished by publishing the dispatch routings a few days in advance, for people to run out and take a look, so that could apply here too.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-01-17 16:50:57 and read 21845 times.

Good God! What were they thinking? That livery is atrocious. Absolutely awful. They took a great brand and ruined it with that hideous tail design.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: dfwcre8tive
Posted 2013-01-17 16:52:38 and read 21816 times.

Here's an interview with Tom Horton that describes some of the branding changes and plans:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...anding-and-a-possible-merger.html/

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-17 16:54:29 and read 21789 times.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 6):
Sorry but why did they do away with that Absolutely Iconic Livery?

Because it's 50 years old.

Are you still driving a Desoto while smoking your Lucky Strikes? How many other brands can you think of that have remained exactly the same for 50 years? (And why do you think that is?)

People can argue over whether or not they like the new livery, but as far as I'm concerned there's no arguing with the decision to change the livery at all. Some people here are revealing themselves to simply be afraid of *any* change.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-01-17 16:54:50 and read 21816 times.

Quoting xkorpyoh (Reply 9):
I am still in shock, sad and angry about this mess. This is a missed opportunity to create something truly modern, unique and creative, but we got this livery and logo borrowed from somewhere else:

Me too. I honestly could stare at this thing for hours and there isn't enough marketing video technique in the world that could possibly make this look any less unappealing to the naked eye.

The corporate logo actually looks fine, and even the scheme on the 737 doesn't look terrible. But on the 77W, I cringe. The tail is really the weak point. It really does look like the Cubana flag and that's what is going to resonate in my mind EVERY time I see the scheme on a widebody.

RIP  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: TSS
Posted 2013-01-17 16:55:53 and read 21778 times.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 10):
Other notes: when the now outgoing livery was first displayed, the tail had the big AA but no eagle. The scissor eagle was added after a hue and cry from traditionalist employees.

I seem to recall the outgoing livery received a few other "tweaks" after it was initially displayed but before the rest of the fleet was painted. I can only hope the new livery is similarly refined before it goes into widespread use.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: qf340500
Posted 2013-01-17 16:56:06 and read 21741 times.

i love it, much better than the "un-painted" canned-peaches thingy. Finally a livery, quite classy, american enough and still looks distinct. Well done!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-01-17 16:56:08 and read 21774 times.

What I find very funny is that if AA had gone the "safer" route with an Eurowhite livery, the same people would be complaining on here that AA isn't imaginative enough blah blah.

I admit I'm not a huge fan of the livery. I think the logo is well-executed - it's a modern refresh to an iconic brand. It's something elegant and different that doesn't stray too far from the safety of tradition.

The livery isn't terrible, but I'm still having a hard time reconciling myself with that tail. I think it's certainly bold and recognizable, and maybe that's what AA was going for. I believe that AA is trying to communicate that they are moving away from the perception that they are "drab" and "boring." While us avgeeks appreciate the simplicity and timelessness of the old colors, some members of the public may not.

I believe the new scheme is AA's attempt at trying to show the world that they are fresh and creative, and hopefully the service will be executed that way. This isn't your grandmother's AA anymore. It's an AA that's built upon the foundations of the days of good 'ole flying, with a modern, fresh twist.

Just my   .

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 6):
Sorry but why did they do away with that Absolutely Iconic Livery?

The composite materials on the 787s and A320 family of aircraft could not support the current polished aluminum base of the current (now outgoing) livery. Combined with their impending departure from bankruptcy, AA felt it was an ideal time to refresh the brand.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 2):
The livery is atrocious. I hope they keep the current US livery when the merger happens.

Doubtful. Regardless of what people seem to think on the site, AA and Futurebrand put a significant amount of time and money into creating this new identity. Considering that a combined carrier would be called American, the AA brand will stick. This isn't going to be an UA/CO situation where the United logo is kept and the airline is just called "American." This AA brand is in it for the long haul, so US can either take it or leave it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aacun
Posted 2013-01-17 16:56:55 and read 21752 times.

And as far as the airplane, when I finally saw it this morning, I was more shocked than anything. The old livery is the ONLY AA livery I have known. So of course its going to be a shocker to have it change. But since its introduction this morning, the more I look at it the more I like it. The tail is not as complicated as I initially thought it out to be. I really like the body of the airplane and I must say that in the video I saw, when all the airplanes ere together, it actually looked really nice. Cant wait to see our MIA terminal full of planes with the new livery.!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mack8994
Posted 2013-01-17 17:03:48 and read 21680 times.

First off, KUDOS for doing a brand re-fresh. I can appreciate how difficult it can be to come up with a concept that pleases everyone. It was long overdue! I do like the body but not the tail. I know it is meant to represent the American flag but it looks very similar to Cubana's tail livery.

Just my two cents.
Cheers,
Mack8994
(aka Greg)

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2013-01-17 17:08:07 and read 22108 times.

Good lord the drama on here is ridiculous. Wishing the airline ceasing operations because of this??

C'mon people.

I personally don't like the livery...but I'm certainly not going to react to it like I'm witnessing an execution at Birkenau!

Love it...hate it...it is what it is, and we'll get over it and move on.

And BTW....yes, my 'inside source' that told me there was no red in the livery was WRONG....and we'll all get over that too.

ROTFL

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-17 17:08:13 and read 22051 times.

As was asked before, I also would like to know when this 738 will start commercial service? I want to photograph it when it flies to CUR (CUR has two daily flights from MIA).

Cheers,

A388

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2013-01-17 17:09:00 and read 22755 times.

Well, I love it.

There, I said it. The tail will perhaps take some getting used to for some.

I think it's the sort of scheme that will grow on people.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-01-17 17:12:13 and read 22755 times.

I can't decide which is worse, WN or this new AA livery. I think AA's is a worse design but WN's is a plane-full of bad whereas it's just AA's tail that's offensive to my eyes (IMO.)

Then again, I didn't like DL's paint job at first but now I really like it. Widget beats all though

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tayser
Posted 2013-01-17 17:13:25 and read 22662 times.

I actually think it's quite a handsome livery and good integration with the eagle into the logo.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-01-17 17:15:52 and read 22625 times.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 15):

Hopefully it wont take too long before the bird hits LAX. Will for sure be out there to see how it really looks like

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: captainstefan
Posted 2013-01-17 17:31:05 and read 22432 times.

Apologies if someone commented on this in an earlier part of the thread-

My observation: front looks fine, much better than I expected, to be honest.
Tail? Ecccch. IIRC the Flag after which THIS ENTIRE BRAND is stylized has 7 red stripes. This tail has 6. How on earth does that make sense? Especially when the tail as is (6 stripes) looks unfinished. Why not add another stripe at the bottom?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: contrails
Posted 2013-01-17 17:35:51 and read 22367 times.

I have one word for the new livery: "Ugh!"

The tail is just plain ugly. The front end, the logo, reminds me of Greyhound. Why change it? They had a livery that was well-recognized around the world.

There is an old saying that I'm reminded of: If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: murchmo
Posted 2013-01-17 17:36:36 and read 22370 times.

Think it looks terrible. The US airways (new livery) has always looked best to me. Elegant and royal. But this looks like a bad blend of trying to be forward thinking with that weird swooshy thingy in front that is possibly a logo? Ugh, looks out of the 90s or something. Simple is always better. They could have done something significant and great. Shoot that guy who did a case study and did AAs rebranding for a school project did a better job, especially with the logo. Oh well.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ATLTPA
Posted 2013-01-17 17:38:09 and read 22410 times.

Horrible! The tail looks like Walt Disney's vomit. The Sno-Cone eagle isn't much better.

Interesting perspective (shared by some on A*net) from this Phoenix (home of USAirways) TV station, though: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/20...1/17/american-airlines-debuts-logo


ATLTPA

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: martinrpo1
Posted 2013-01-17 17:39:10 and read 22351 times.

Tom Horton: “Early on in this process when we embarked the different process of restructuring, I said to our people, what we’re going to do here is we’re going to set out to build American’s flag carrier, an airline that could compete on the level of any airline in the world. When I think of flag carriers, I think of the great companies of Oneworld, our great partners like British Airways, Cathay Pacific and Qantas. That’s the sort of quality and look to the customer that we seek, and we think the new look is very much in line with that.”

Their strategy is to covert American into America's flag carrier. That explains why they decided to use the flag. The more I see the more I like it. It is patriotic, fun, elegant, and stands out from the crowd. Give it chance! I bet it is going to become many people's favorite livery!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2013-01-17 17:40:23 and read 22274 times.

It's a Greyhond bus! Count me as a not fan.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: deltaflyertoo
Posted 2013-01-17 17:42:18 and read 22272 times.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 14):
Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters?

I've read every reply here and elsewhere on the net. You are right, we are tough audience. However what makes this different from other critiques is the large number of people who are of the opinion of how amateurish and off brand it is. While other logo rollouts people just find them boring or unoriginal. So big difference.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: motorhussy
Posted 2013-01-17 17:42:29 and read 22268 times.

Love the impassioned pleas for the status quo to prevail, it's very comical. Unlike many, it would seem, I really like the new livery; reminds me of USAF Korean War era jets.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: cloudboy
Posted 2013-01-17 17:42:40 and read 22281 times.

I like the logo, even if it does remind me of car parts. But I can't get over the tail. It's like they tried to incorporate US Airways already compromised livery.

I am not good at graphics, and I know this is a one off request, but could someone PLEASE make a mockup of that livery but with the old AMC car logo on the tail? I think that would look really cool!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: seahawks7757
Posted 2013-01-17 17:47:03 and read 22248 times.

Quoting murchmo (Reply 33):
The US airways (new livery) has always looked best to me.

Are you kidding me? The Blue scheme was a million times better. The current one is just boarding.

Quoting A388 (Reply 26):
s was asked before, I also would like to know when this 738 will start commercial service? I want to photograph it when it flies to CUR (CUR has two daily flights from MIA).

AA aircraft are trackable on FlightAware.com

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mat1776
Posted 2013-01-17 17:55:51 and read 22125 times.

The new tail design is as friendly to my eyes as a #100 grit sand paper.

I hope the new tail design would soar high into the Big WAAste Basket in the Sky.

And quickly.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-17 18:02:07 and read 22020 times.

What if AA had 3 different designs and allowed employees and travelers to vote for their favorites, then decide?
Wouldn't that have been better, specially for employees to feel included and show them that they matter?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirCalSNA
Posted 2013-01-17 18:09:37 and read 21925 times.

Interesting how the subtle grey stripes on the new AA tail seem to echo the subtle grey stripes on US Airway's fuselage.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-01-17 18:09:46 and read 21921 times.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 37):
However what makes this different from other critiques is the large number of people who are of the opinion of how amateurish and off brand it is. While other logo rollouts people just find them boring or unoriginal. So big difference.

Of course it's "off brand", because unlike any of the other livery roll-outs, AA's livery was older than most of the people on a.net. I like the new livery, but I'll admit there was a shock value in it for me simply because it was, at first, hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that this was AA's new livery...the polished silver look has been AA's look for my entire life, so of course any significant change is going to be shocking. Compare this to UA who's cycled through 4 different liveries in the past 25 years, DL who's gone through 4, US at 3, or NW who went through 3. AA's was clearly the oldest unchanged livery, so anything new is going to shock people.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aerokiwi
Posted 2013-01-17 18:13:23 and read 21848 times.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 14):
Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters?

Several.

You have a few categories (based on general feedback on here that I've seen) though, such as:

Complete overhaul successes: Saudi Arabian, LAN, Thai (especially the metallic purple), Air Fiji, Aerolineas Argentinas, Turkish, Delta, Hawaiian, Avianca, Aeroflot, Asiana
Complete overhaul failures: JAL, Finnair, AA, Malaysia, Aeromexico, Germanwings
Complete overhaul undecided: TAP, Virgin Australia, Garuda, Asiana, Southwest, Air India, TACA, Air Canada

Tweaks successes: KLM, Air France, Alitalia, Qantas, Singapore
Tweaks failures: Swiss, Air NZ, Virgin Atlantic, Ethiopian
Tweaks undecided: Continetal/United

But lately we've had some serious duds, AA being the latest. Just atrocious and with a bleh grey fuselage!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-17 18:19:03 and read 21815 times.

Is Virasb Vahidi Iranain origin?

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 31):

I think the blank space at the bottom suggest that another stripe was meant to be added but may have looked too much on the already awkward llooking tail so they left it blank which looks quite odd.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: alfa164
Posted 2013-01-17 18:19:11 and read 21792 times.

I have no objection to the body of the plane - with changes to composite materials coming, there had to be a change, and the new livery looks like a modern (if somewhat generic) update of American's style - but tail is (how do I say this politely?)... hideous. I remember the past DL ("wavy gravy") tail; despite its detractors, it reflected the look of the American flag in a far better (and far classier) way.

The "AA/Eagle" logo - new or old - has been an iconic symbol of the airline. I don't understand why it wasn't incorporated into the tail. The new one - dare I say it - looks more like and update of the US Airways tail, not an AA plane.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-01-17 18:26:57 and read 21958 times.

DISAPPOINTED!!!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-17 18:30:35 and read 21963 times.

I am noticing one trend here:

The guys who really dislike the livery tend to post often on how the livery would never change   

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: bogota
Posted 2013-01-17 18:35:23 and read 21605 times.

It is simply an updated version of the boring Cubana livery. Very dissapointed.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-01-17 18:36:27 and read 21728 times.

Here's a 3:06 video all about how they changed stuff that didn't need to be changed:

Tampering with American - How They Did It

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AF185
Posted 2013-01-17 18:40:52 and read 21431 times.

The tail design makes the overall livery look cheap!

On another note, why changing the livery now while the probabilities of a merger and re-branding are very high?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: mdavies06
Posted 2013-01-17 18:42:07 and read 21616 times.

This is a cheesegrater.

This is a tilted ladder.

This is AA's tail !

 

I am still imagining what it is like seeing hundreds of these sticking up at ORD, DFW or MIA. LHR will only get 15 of these at any time max...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: infinit
Posted 2013-01-17 18:51:57 and read 21256 times.

Why the need for a change though?
If it ain't broken, it ain't need no fixing.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-01-17 19:02:30 and read 21132 times.

Quoting infinit (Reply 54):
Why the need for a change though?If it ain't broken, it ain't need no fixing.

Amen to that! The money spent on development and markeing could go towards improvig client experience.
I hope this will be shortlived like BA's taste of the world on tails. Enough people complained and they got rid of it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 19:06:58 and read 21089 times.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 35):
Tom Horton: “Early on in this process when we embarked the different process of restructuring, I said to our people, what we’re going to do here is we’re going to set out to build American’s flag carrier, an airline that could compete on the level of any airline in the world. When I think of flag carriers, I think of the great companies of Oneworld, our great partners like British Airways, Cathay Pacific and Qantas.That’s the sort of quality and look to the customer that we seek, and we think the new look is very much in line with that.”

Their strategy is to covert American into America's flag carrier. That explains why they decided to use the flag.

They might have done well to remember that none of the carriers they mentioned have tails that display the respective flags of their countries.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: asuflyer
Posted 2013-01-17 19:07:12 and read 21482 times.

I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: N243NW
Posted 2013-01-17 19:10:43 and read 21083 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 56):

They might have done well to remember that none of the carriers they mentioned have tails that display the respective flags of their countries.

BA's tail is a quite recognizable derivative of the Union Jack.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: gulfstream650
Posted 2013-01-17 19:12:13 and read 21052 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

Even that is such an improvement. I don't have much of an issue with the logo other than the fact that I think it could be more substantial but the tail is a "mess". Yours looks much better and portrays a brand.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: mcmax
Posted 2013-01-17 19:15:34 and read 21242 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.


Now that's a beautiful tail that goes with the new logo and livery. Excellent job. Now, how do we get AA to use this?  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: gulfstream650
Posted 2013-01-17 19:17:49 and read 21073 times.

Quoting N243NW (Reply 58):

Remember that it was somewhat of a journey for BA after the world tail nonsense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4g8zwVfPAI&sns=em

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flyaadc10
Posted 2013-01-17 19:17:49 and read 21012 times.

Quoting ckfred:

"Are pilots, F/As, mechanics, and CSAs getting new uniforms? What happens to the crest on pilot hats? The current crest is based on logos AA used prior to the 1968 rebranding."

Well, my wife is a tower agent at ORD. She wanted to get a new jacket with her uniform allotment, so called the appropriate person who informed her that she should wait for a few weeks as the uniform colors would be changing. When she inquired further, he said said that the colors will be dark gray, teal and melon.

Immediately, I pictured my days at YV as HP Express in PRC and PHX in a flashback.

Either this person is joking, or the colors of the southwest seem to be nigh.

As far as the new livery goes (as an ex-AA employee), I think they're going to take a long time to grow on me...

I'll miss you, Silverbird...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: HermansCVR580
Posted 2013-01-17 19:18:07 and read 20954 times.

Quoting mcmax (Reply 60):
Now, how do we get AA to use this?

I'll second that!!! C'mon there has to be someone on here that has some pull at AA. Please go back to the drawing board AA and try again for something better.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2013-01-17 19:22:26 and read 20874 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

I like that, while I don't mind the new livery (it's slowly growing on me) that would have been much better.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-01-17 19:26:24 and read 20897 times.

I just came from the corporate/executive rebranding party at AA.


I have to say, some thing I like about it, some things I don't. I talked to the designers (who were present) from FutureBrand and they said the text was a "graphite, modern" look. I don't understand their motivation.

I decided not to talk to Horton about it (who was also present).

The more Horton talked on stage, however, the more I felt he didn't know what he was talking about. At one point he said "with this brand, we will have the most recognizable and iconic airline brand in the world." At that point, my smile faded.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: fanoftristars
Posted 2013-01-17 19:30:57 and read 20787 times.

I actually like the new logo but the tail is UGLY. Wow what a mess.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-17 19:32:56 and read 20770 times.

It just dawned on me what the tail section looks like. It's the soccer jerseys for the U.S. National soccer team. It's red and while horizontal stripes, with blue around the collar and sleeves.

I'm not a fan of the jerseys or the tail section of the new livery.

.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-01-17 19:33:17 and read 20790 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 65):
The more Horton talked on stage, however, the more I felt he didn't know what he was talking about. At one point he said "with this brand, we will have the most recognizable and iconic airline brand in the world." At that point, my smile faded.

Why? He's the CEO of AMR so of course he's going to be a cheerleader for the brand. What was he supposed to say? "With this brand, we will have a mediocre-looking airline."?

[Edited 2013-01-17 19:34:02]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 787
Posted 2013-01-17 19:34:50 and read 20730 times.

We look at this design and see simplicity in branding. Sometimes the simple things just do not work.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 19:39:18 and read 20698 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

Much better.

Quoting N243NW (Reply 58):
BA's tail is a quite recognizable derivative of the Union Jack.

It's quite a derivative - only an 8th of the flag visible. Not even close to what AA came up with.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: OA412
Posted 2013-01-17 19:41:33 and read 20663 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

Now that would have been a great livery redesign!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-01-17 19:46:42 and read 20514 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 68):
Why? He's the CEO of AMR so of course he's going to be a cheerleader for the brand. What was he supposed to say? "With this brand, we will have a mediocre-looking airline."?

No, he's supposed to say "our future is brighter than it has ever been" and that "with this, we hope to be one of the most recognized brands in the world."

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-17 19:49:40 and read 20454 times.

Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 40):
AA aircraft are trackable on FlightAware.com

The flights are trackable there but not the registrations. I know flightradar24 does but if someone has the schedule that will make it easier.

A388

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2013-01-17 19:49:49 and read 20464 times.

One word... Eeuwww! IMO, DL did a MUCH better job of re-branding during their BK.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2013-01-17 19:51:03 and read 20438 times.

The logo is appropriated from the United mainliner livery tail scheme.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-01-17 19:52:01 and read 20456 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

LOVE this. Well done. This would be such an improvement from what we are seeing currently (though, the newly introduced livery is growing on me)

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirCalSNA
Posted 2013-01-17 19:52:05 and read 20386 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

Now that one REALLY looks like Greyhound!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 19:52:13 and read 20362 times.

Among the many curious choices made in this livery, perhaps the strangest one is the choice to not have the logo on the tail. That's generally a bad move, since people who see your logo in advertisements and then see it on the tail will be able to draw an instant connection between the two. People who see the AA logo in advertisements and then see their tail won't have a clue what they're looking at. That's not a very good branding strategy.

I'm trying to think of other major airlines around the world that do this, but I can only think of two: BA and AF. And AF is a bit iffy, since the logo is incorporated into the tail design.

Does AA just want to be BA?

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: questions
Posted 2013-01-17 19:52:27 and read 20367 times.

After a great job on the cabin redesign, AA dropped the ball on the livery. Awful.

What a REDNECK DESIGN, certainly not befitting a "global" airline. I bet whoever designed this has a gun rack in their pickup window!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Victr
Posted 2013-01-17 19:53:30 and read 20343 times.

my question when is aa.com and digital assets of the company in terms of time will be rebranded

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: CO777DAL
Posted 2013-01-17 19:58:03 and read 20492 times.

Absolutely horrendous! I thought there was nothing that could be worse looking than the Kindergarten drawn and painted Star Alliance Livery. AA proved me wrong. To replace what they had with this crAAp is unbelievable. A terminal of those tails at DFW is going to be    ! DFW hasn't seen that much color since Braniff in the1980s. Thanks for going back 30 years AA.   

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: caribb
Posted 2013-01-17 19:58:25 and read 20279 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 78):

Air Canada's true logo is also not on the tail, only on the side of the fuselage.

[Edited 2013-01-17 19:59:47]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 20:05:42 and read 20120 times.

Quoting caribb (Reply 82):
Air Canada's true logo is also not on the tail, only on the side of the fuselage.


It pretty much is on the tail. Yeah, the circle isn't there, but the leaf is the same, with a bit of extra coloration. I can't consider that to be an example.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-01-17 20:07:57 and read 20110 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

Excellent job. This is how the new livery should look like.
As someone else said - how do we get AA to change into this?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: cloudboy
Posted 2013-01-17 20:09:11 and read 20048 times.

ASuflyer I think you hit it right on with the tail. Bravo!

Looking at that livery, though - I think I realize what I don't like about it. It looks like it comes out of a PowerPoint Clip Art book from about 10 years ago.

Here are the problems:

It relies on weird color grading techniques. They look kinda snazzy now, but will look real dated in about 3 weeks time. They will look really cheap in about a year when computer graphics improve even more and that looks poor quality.

The underlying concept is good, but it is going to start being called the chicken beak instead of wings. I know they wanted to get away from "Eagle" but a beak? Come on, at least include an eye with it.

The font looks cheap. Again, like it was done by a college student who only had a few fonts on his system. Or worse yet, didn't even bother to change from the default Office font. At least choose one that is balanced.

I feel so bad being so critical of FutureBrand. It is decent for a small starting firm. But this is a logo for a world leading airline. You have to get this one right.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-01-17 20:10:41 and read 20010 times.

I like it. Why stick with a logo that is the same or similar to the current one that is now associated by almost all passengers to an airline that is a disaster in terms of customer service. They wanted a clean slate and thats exactly what they're getting with this new corporate identity package. I think it's very clean, sleek, and modern.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flood
Posted 2013-01-17 20:11:19 and read 20119 times.

Take note, AA... a 16-20 year old student just put your own million dollar effort to shame.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

Great work.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AF185
Posted 2013-01-17 20:23:23 and read 19922 times.

Interesting views about the new livery in this article form Bloomberg-Businessweek:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...s-its-planes-to-much-carping#r=rss

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-17 20:39:57 and read 19533 times.

Why have they kept the same outdated font after chaging the whole look, perhaps soemthing new, more so in all caps might have made all the differnce, something futureistic.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-01-17 20:47:28 and read 19404 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

The logo doesn't work at that scale. Plus, it is just too much logo.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2013-01-17 20:49:55 and read 19375 times.

Does anyone know if the interior of the -800 is the same as the others, or is it sporting the new narrow body interior as seen in the A319/321 demo video released sometime ago..

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-01-17 20:50:48 and read 19535 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 72):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 68):
Why? He's the CEO of AMR so of course he's going to be a cheerleader for the brand. What was he supposed to say? "With this brand, we will have a mediocre-looking airline."?

No, he's supposed to say "our future is brighter than it has ever been" and that "with this, we hope to be one of the most recognized brands in the world."

Sounds like nit picking to me, I honestly don't understand why what he said wiped a smile off your face unless he's bad at public speaking.

Quoting Mir (Reply 70):
Quoting N243NW (Reply 58):
BA's tail is a quite recognizable derivative of the Union Jack.

It's quite a derivative - only an 8th of the flag visible. Not even close to what AA came up with.

It's also quite a different flag design as far as the symmetry goes between the two. There's no real way to stylize the American flag without showing the basic box-and-stripes design unless, a la Delta, you turn it into some vague wavy design that really looks like the Russian or Serbian flag. I have to say though, the only thing I like about US's livery is that flag design.

Quoting infinit (Reply 54):
Why the need for a change though?
If it ain't broken, it ain't need no fixing.

For the umpteenth time, with the Airbus and 787 a/c arriving, and composite materials being used more and more, the polished look would have been impossible to keep, unless you favor the all-white look they experimented with before:
http://x-2000r.0catch.com/images/Planes/RenoAirMD90_SNAAA.JPG

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-17 20:56:31 and read 19286 times.

The more people relentlessly criticize a livery like this, the more it makes me like it.

Quoting Mir (Reply 78):
Among the many curious choices made in this livery, perhaps the strangest one is the choice to not have the logo on the tail. That's generally a bad move

Tell it to Aeroflot, BA, China Airlines, Asiana, Alaska Airlines, Frontier Airlines, or Mexicana, for starters.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-17 21:15:15 and read 18994 times.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):
I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I like the look of the logo on the tail. Remember, though, when AA had the lightening bolt livery, the red was far more orange, and the dark blue looked black at a distance. Even the 1968 livery wasn't quite right. I still thought, up close, that the red had a little too much orange, and the blue was a tad too violet.

Quoting flyaadc10 (Reply 62):
Well, my wife is a tower agent at ORD. She wanted to get a new jacket with her uniform allotment, so called the appropriate person who informed her that she should wait for a few weeks as the uniform colors would be changing. When she inquired further, he said said that the colors will be dark gray, teal and melon.

Considering that the cabin appears to be changing from blue to gray and brown, anything might be possible in terms of employee uniforms. But, I don't see how the teal and melon fits in with a brand that is red, blue, and silvery gray.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 65):
The more Horton talked on stage, however, the more I felt he didn't know what he was talking about. At one point he said "with this brand, we will have the most recognizable and iconic airline brand in the world." At that point, my smile faded.

It will be the most recognizable brand. Considering that a lot of airlines have a Eurowhite fuselage and a tail the blue as the background color (US, UA, DL, B6, and LH come to mind), silvery gray with a red, white, and blue striped tail will be very, very recognizable.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 75):
The logo is appropriated from the United mainliner livery tail scheme.

I hadn't thought of that, but you have a point. Although, my guess is that the designers are probably so young, they probably only remember the Saul Bass livery for UA.

Quoting Mir (Reply 78):
Among the many curious choices made in this livery, perhaps the strangest one is the choice to not have the logo on the tail. That's generally a bad move, since people who see your logo in advertisements and then see it on the tail will be able to draw an instant connection between the two. People who see the AA logo in advertisements and then see their tail won't have a clue what they're looking at. That's not a very good branding strategy.

I'm trying to think of other major airlines around the world that do this, but I can only think of two: BA and AF. And AF is a bit iffy, since the logo is incorporated into the tail design.

The last TWA livery was a hodge podge. The lettering on the fuselage was different from the letters on the tail, and there was a globe on the fuselage. But, the red, slant block "TWA" was pretty much the logo.

Delta's wavy gravy tail wasn't the logo, which was the widget with the curve (later straightened out). But, it seemed that a lot of gates and ticket counters had a wall of wavy gravy with no widgets. That was confusing.

B6 has multiple tail designs. The words "Jet Blue" are the logo.

JAL is going back to the crane logo, but the prior livery was the letters JAL on the fuselage and the Rising Sun on the tail.

Now for the dumb question. I watched the video with Horton introducing the new livery. What is the music that is used while the aircraft are flying, taxiing, and parked on the DFW ramp? I like it and would like to find it, either on CD or music download.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mexicana757
Posted 2013-01-17 21:15:49 and read 19159 times.

The livery is alright. They should have kept the eagle not just the head. The logo sort of reminds of the last Mexicana logo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ricardo Morales - Aviation Photography of Mexico

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: goldenargosy
Posted 2013-01-17 21:16:22 and read 18967 times.

I think the entire identity system is crisp, elegant and friendly. I already like it and can't wait to start seeing it appear everywhere and on everything. Run into the future and let go of the past.

The tail is awesome. As an American, I'm very proud to be flying in a plane with a stylized United States flag on the tail.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flanker
Posted 2013-01-17 21:16:38 and read 18977 times.

Coming from someone who thinks the bare metal AA colors were the most timeless design ever created, I must say that I absolutely love the new livery!!!!!

I do wish that they extended the flag all the way down in the rear instead of just stopping by the windows.

All in all, good job AA! Can't wait to fly!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: pdx
Posted 2013-01-17 21:23:28 and read 18878 times.

Why is the flag on the tail backwards on the starboard side of the aircraft?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 21:24:14 and read 18857 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 93):
Tell it to Aeroflot, BA, China Airlines, Asiana, Alaska Airlines, Frontier Airlines, or Mexicana, for starters.

Aeroflot, China Airlines and Mexicana all have their logo on the tail (in Mexicana's case the colors are different but the design is the same). I already mentioned BA as one that doesn't, and I hadn't thought of Asiana. Alaska and Frontier aren't really major world airlines, so they don't count.

Quoting flanker (Reply 97):
I do wish that they extended the flag all the way down in the rear instead of just stopping by the windows.

If they had stopped it at the tail and not let it run into the fuselage, it would be better - the stripes ending on the fuselage look really awkward. Truth be told, the tail isn't that bad if you just look at it on its own. But it doesn't go at all with the rest of the airplane.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: questions
Posted 2013-01-17 21:24:33 and read 18859 times.

Maybe a merger with US would be better than this ugly livery.

**** Quick, can someone whip up a livery mock-up with the new AA livery and US tail? ****

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: goldenargosy
Posted 2013-01-17 21:28:25 and read 18786 times.

Website just went live with the new branding minutes ago.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Owleye
Posted 2013-01-17 21:29:44 and read 18783 times.

When you always wear the same clothes you will be judged as boring, so a change now and then is good for every brand.

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

Although I like the new livery I have to applause for this livery concept of Asuflyer. Looks good!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-17 21:35:22 and read 18734 times.

I knew a Facebook page was coming against this tragic new livery: https://www.facebook.com/AAfail

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Aloha717200
Posted 2013-01-17 21:41:32 and read 18795 times.

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/417/6840/original.jpg




Probably the most anticlimactic unveiling in recent memory. What a horribly ugly tail. I agree with others who said it's something you'd be more likely to see on a charter airline than a global carrier like American.

My biggest problem with it is how jarring it is. It doesn't blend well with the rest of the fuselage. If anything, the tail might benefit from having the "stripes" end at the base of the tail, but continuing it downwards just makes it all the more grating on the eyes. And what's with all of the gradients and stripes within stripes? It's a livery that feels like it's trying too hard.

Certainly not timeless or classic. More like a livery that is disposable and easily replacable. Very disappointing...and yet...STILL better than the "new" United livery. At least it has some interesting elements to it. I'm glad that the body is kept a form of silver, I'm glad that the red and blue are retained, and the new logo looks halfway decent, though it really needs to go on the winglets, it looks like it would be at home there.


But the tail...I'm sorry, but far too overpatriotic and cheesy. The idea is to make it classy for a classy airline. I'm confused by people saying it's classy. It's more like someone draping an american flag out the back window of their pickup truck. US' logo is "classy".

Defiinitely needs refinement. I literally laughed after seeing how enthused Horton appeared to be in that video, and then seeing the result. I hate it. It's so bad that it's actually funny!  

[Edited 2013-01-17 22:10:53]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: YXwatcherMKE
Posted 2013-01-17 21:43:46 and read 18598 times.

I have to say that I very much like the new Livery. Yes it is a big, big, BIG change, but it is time for a change. The current livery is 45 years old. How many different liveries have the other Majors have had in that time period. It would have been better if there were stripes down the Fuselage to say the wings and fades out there. And it would look better if the Logo was on the winglets or something other than plan gray. Maybe if theirs enough comments made to the right peoples email they could make a few changes to the livery. But unless you could have made a design and submitted it to the powers to be at AA I don't think any one has a leg on to complain about it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-17 21:44:42 and read 18564 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 102):
When you always wear the same clothes you will be judged as boring, so a change now and then is good for every brand.

Are you seriously comparing wearing the same clothes with a worldwide recognized brand? Really? Do think it is good "every now and then" to change a worldwide brand such as BA or KL or AF? AA falls in that same category. Don't change a well-known brand too drastically.

On what do you base that AA's livery was boring or seen as boring?

A388

[Edited 2013-01-17 21:48:57]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: airjamaica
Posted 2013-01-17 21:45:52 and read 18571 times.

Was expecting the billboard titles for the new livery so that is not a surprise. Tail is very disappointing though. Oh well. Life goes on..........

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-17 21:47:29 and read 18553 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 99):
If they had stopped it at the tail and not let it run into the fuselage, it would be better - the stripes ending on the fuselage look really awkward.

Yes, that last stripe needs to be dropped.

[Edited 2013-01-17 22:06:13]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Acey559
Posted 2013-01-17 21:48:27 and read 18528 times.

Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 101):

Good catch, I think the new site looks really nice! I'm a huge fan of the bare metal and I'm still getting used to the change, but I'm a fan of the branding and look forward to flying a newly painted Eagle plane.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: pdx
Posted 2013-01-17 21:54:44 and read 18482 times.

Would make a great movie airline! AIRPORT 2013 anyone? Doesn't quite beat Trans Global Airlines or Columbia Airlines however. Ironically, the Columbia 747 from AIRPORT 1975 was rented from AA I believe.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flanker
Posted 2013-01-17 22:09:08 and read 18313 times.

Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 101):
Website just went live with the new branding minutes ago.
Quoting Acey559 (Reply 109):
Good catch, I think the new site looks really nice!

Have you guys noticed how the main background pictures that you can cycle through are not formatted right? Way too pixelated ..especially the "madrid spain" one... yikes!!!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: concord977
Posted 2013-01-17 22:12:07 and read 18423 times.

My twist ><br />
My twist on the new AAL look.<br><br><font size=-4>[Edited 2013-01-17 22:13:21]</font><p></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=2 FACE=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva><b>Topic:</b> RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3<br><b>Username:</b> ckfred<br><font size=Posted 2013-01-17 22:12:50 and read 18291 times.

Quoting pdx (Reply 98):
Why is the flag on the tail backwards on the starboard side of the aircraft?

Whether it's the U.S. flag or something stylized, it's always painted to look if you had a cloth flag flying from a flag pole.

If you look at the flag on an aircraft of a U.S. carrier, the field is always towards the nose of the aircraft.

If you have a flag patch on a sleeve of a uniform, you always have the field situated, so that it's towards the chest. When the person is walking, it would look the same as if he was carrying a flag on a pole.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: infinit
Posted 2013-01-17 22:13:02 and read 18253 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 92):
For the umpteenth time, with the Airbus and 787 a/c arriving, and composite materials being used more and more, the polished look would have been impossible to keep, unless you favor the all-white look they experimented with before

Technology, materials etc can change but style shouldn't. The American livery circa 1967 is stylish and timeless.
I would have rather gone with the all-white look you cited.
Maybe they could have tweaked it a little so it doesn't look as unfinished but I would definitely favour that over a near-completely new livery.

Doesn't consistency mean anything to AA? For a brand who launched a beautiful Marketing campaign post 911 where they stated boldly that they're evidently more than just an airline, I would have expected them to stick to tradition.

Yes they are in a bit of a transition now, contemplating a merger from what I understand but if the issue of branding should ever arise, I would have expected a "some things will never change" axiom- AA as a brand that is classy, relatable to Americans of all ages and through the times.. And not to throw an old brand/identity out and develop something new. That might be fine for Virgin instead.

Perhaps I've always seen the AA brand as more premium than it necessarily is but I think they're one of the few airlines that can build on a strong sense of tradition and it should.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: questions
Posted 2013-01-17 22:27:55 and read 18100 times.

Quoting concord977 (Reply 112):


That looks better.

Once I get past the new livery's awful tail design... I get hung up on the logo which looks like a cross between the US Postal Service and Greyhound logos... then once I get past that mess, I get hung up on the choice of blue and red... the blue looks very close to DL Signature Blue.

All in all cheap and cheesy.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ukoverlander
Posted 2013-01-17 22:28:57 and read 18063 times.

Wow, what can I say. ...super trashy and ugly springs to mind. After all this time it's amazing that American Airlines could pick a livery that is so gaudy and tasteless. Very sad really.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-01-17 22:30:57 and read 18184 times.

Ladies and Gentlemen....

I present to you my Alternative Marketing Plan that was rejected by AA management in late-2012 after being circulated in high areas of AMR Corporate.


http://imgur.com/a/mwEiY

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: macsog6
Posted 2013-01-17 22:32:07 and read 18052 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 5):
Yes, it is clearly Americana to the MAX and that's a good thing because that's the name of the company and that's their brand, AMERICAN.

So here's where I am about 45 minutes into this - it's bold, it's contemporary and it's going to be a classic for the stylized tail. Let's see where I am after a few hours!

When I first looked at it, I thought it was awful. But the longer I looked at, the more it opened up to me and it started to be...well, it started to be AMERICAN.

As much as I loved the old one, I am grateful they did not try to make the old one just look new. I like the new one now and I suspect in a few months, I'll love it.

Well done American, well done.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Aloha717200
Posted 2013-01-17 22:36:48 and read 17995 times.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 117):
I present to you my Alternative Marketing Plan that was rejected by AA management in late-2012 after being circulated in high areas of AMR Corporate.

Well, clearly you didn't have enough stripes within stripes. There's your problem.

That said, while your livery is nice, I think there's something missing from it. I'd go with larger titles on the front, and I'd do slightly more with the tail. Those large areas of solid color need something. Still, it's on a better track than this monstrosity that we now get to live with.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Independence76
Posted 2013-01-17 22:41:15 and read 17949 times.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 119):
That said, while your livery is nice, I think there's something missing from it. I'd go with larger titles on the front, and I'd do slightly more with the tail. Those large areas of solid color need something. Still, it's on a better track than this monstrosity that we now get to live with.

It's not perfect, but it's merely a draft design to catch the attention of marketing executives. It did that, but they went with the livery unveiled today instead.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-01-17 22:44:44 and read 18110 times.

Found this elsewhere on the internet:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EkNqjQbZTFg/UIk_hqQ4sEI/AAAAAAAAAyU/843etZQpVOc/s1600/livery.jpg

I don't think it's perfect - I'd change the teal to red and the dark grey on the tail to blue, and I might tweak the design of the eagle somewhat to make it more linear and less flowing. But it's a whole lot better than what they put out.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Mikey86
Posted 2013-01-17 22:55:04 and read 17791 times.

It makes AA look like a low-cost airline now. I am still undecided on this livery. There was some good renderings in the forums that were far more attracted which would have projected a great image for a "legacy carrier" that AA is but also with the airline still in time with others.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-01-17 22:59:50 and read 17749 times.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 104):
And what's with all of the gradients and stripes within stripes? It's a livery that feels like it's trying too hard.

Exactly. If they got rid of the gradients and the white stripes in the blue field that don't line up with any of the other stripes, it might actually be visually acceptable.

Well, the good news is that it's unlikely that this livery will last nearly as long as the last one did.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: PSAMD80
Posted 2013-01-17 23:03:56 and read 17707 times.

I think the new livery is every bit of awesome! The tail is American's red , white and blue stripes, but with an updated,modern twist to it. The titles still resemble AA's current script, except a little softer. The hint of the eagle is a nice touch also.

[Edited 2013-01-17 23:05:27]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Owleye
Posted 2013-01-17 23:37:38 and read 17373 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 106):
Don't change a well-known brand too drastically.

Agree. AA's previous livery was not boring but could use a subtle upgrade though. Now it is drastically done, true. Not bad but totally different. Isn't this new branding/livery the result of US Airways and AA merger? Take that into account as well.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: TSS
Posted 2013-01-17 23:47:54 and read 17289 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 123):
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 104):
And what's with all of the gradients and stripes within stripes? It's a livery that feels like it's trying too hard.

Exactly. If they got rid of the gradients and the white stripes in the blue field that don't line up with any of the other stripes, it might actually be visually acceptable.

Agreed 100%. It does explain how the planes are able to be delivered in basic grey and white though- The design on the tail is all computer-printed decal.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 123):
Well, the good news is that it's unlikely that this livery will last nearly as long as the last one did.

I agree with that as well. I figure it'll last about as long as DL's similarly tortured "Wavy Gravy/Deltaflot" livery did.

Quoting PSAMD80 (Reply 124):
The hint of the eagle is a nice touch also.

The "hint of the eagle" is the only thing about the new livery that's too subtle. It's like one of those "can you see the hidden image?" optical illusion pictures in that the "hint of the eagle" is only obvious to people who are already looking for some hint of an eagle. To everyone else, I suspect the new logo will simply look as if the red portion has a giant pull-tab hanging off of it. With that in mind, I hereby officially dub AA's new logo "The Pull-Tab".

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-01-18 00:08:13 and read 17143 times.

I'll give it this:

It is iconic and easily recognizable. Just like the old brand, everyone is going to quickly learn this new brand. It's not exactly subtle and cheerily inoffensive like the CO livery (it's not the UA livery and never will be). And it will be very easy to recognize from afar.

Love it or hate it, it does do its job.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-01-18 00:26:57 and read 17110 times.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 93):

Except for the fact that Alaska, Frontier and Mexicana all had their logos on the tail?

I do have to say, this picture under this lighting makes it look ok to good.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Giacomino



My biggest peeve about it is the fact that there are grey stripes in with the white stripes to the point where its more grey than white. Our flag is not red, grey and blue!

However, I do love the new logo and branding elsewhere, even though as soon as I saw it, I instantly thought Air France...

In summary, this is not a livery that will be able to survive 45 years like the last one did. However, with a little tweaking it can be a good livery.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: a380heavy
Posted 2013-01-18 00:34:34 and read 16901 times.

In my opinion the new livery instantly makes the one it replaces look old fashioned.

The new design is simple and uncluttered, the only change I'd make is to make the blue on the tail solid and incorporate some stars so it more represents a section taken from the American flag.

Because the old livery has been around for so long any change is bound to polarise opinion. BMW had a similar challenge in the UK when re-inventing the MINI motor car. Alec Issigonis got the concept so right with the original it's been virtually impossible to replace it with a modern interpretation.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: babybus
Posted 2013-01-18 00:54:50 and read 16735 times.

Sorry, I don't like it. It cheapens the airline. That livery would be better suited to a start-up north American charter airline.

I think you always need an evolution in commercial branding not a shock.

It's like seeing your mum after a secret facelift. You should still be able to recognise her from before.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ManuCH
Posted 2013-01-18 01:39:00 and read 16554 times.

Kudos for the refresh. I actually really like the new logo, I loved it at the first sight. Although I'm probably one of the few on here  
Quoting a380heavy (Reply 129):
In my opinion the new livery instantly makes the one it replaces look old fashioned.

I absolutely agree.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-01-18 01:53:23 and read 16324 times.

Can anyone working at American share what feelings of airline's employees are about the new livery? Do they like it?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: calvo747
Posted 2013-01-18 02:19:28 and read 16132 times.

very boring, almost looks cheap

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: usdcaguy
Posted 2013-01-18 02:26:11 and read 16110 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 132):

Can anyone working at American share what feelings of airline's employees are about the new livery? Do they like it?

I used to work for AA and cannot believe they would attempt such a maneuver. Would have preferred to see them just paint their planes white while keeping the scissor eagle on the tail using a number of different lines and swirls for the colors. I don't think it would have taken anything more than an interning graphic design student to create a look that would be better than what has been fabricated.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: na
Posted 2013-01-18 02:35:28 and read 16022 times.

Im surprised that there are so many negative comments.
While not a stunner, I think its a fresh start. It looks modern, the logo is smart, and everything very American.I also like the tail. Its the naked dull battleship grey fuselage that I dislike.

If there is really something to critisize, its the time of the debut. They should have decided first if they merge with US, regardless if some 77Ws carry the old livery for some time. Hey, the 77W is just the ordinary 77W like the Jones´ left and right have them for years, and not the A380 or 748 which would indeed be news. Who knows, maybe in a few weeks they do it like UA and they announce that this new livery was just a waste as they have decided on the US look for post-merger?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2013-01-18 02:39:15 and read 15991 times.

Eh, I don't love it, I don't hate it. I kinda like the logo, even if it does look a bit like a peeling sticker. The tail, well, it'll grow on me once I start seeing them all lined up in person.

I'd prefer a shade of grey that was a bit more evocative of silver in less-than-ideal lighting, but that's neither here nor there. It looks decent. I like it better on first sight than I liked Delta's current livery. I was one of the few who liked US Airways' scheme on first sight. And it sets the bar low enough for when UA eventually replaces the current scheme that I have less trepidation thinking about when that day might come.

Quoting a380heavy (Reply 129):
The new design is simple and uncluttered, the only change I'd make is to make the blue on the tail solid and incorporate some stars so it more represents a section taken from the American flag.

Even if they just made the blue solid it might be an improvement. Someone wanna photoshop that and post it?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: radone
Posted 2013-01-18 02:42:17 and read 15969 times.

The tail design, with its complex striped&gradient layout may please the designers/PR and their desire of being updated, edgy and singular, but it may present a perception problem for the general public. For the ordinary traveler, the one who doesn t care if he flies A or B equipment, this livery may look, especially some cycles after painting, as "something wrong", either dirty or faded away, in the kind of BA747 that passed through volcanic ash.
Kinda "Look Mom, someone took off some stripes out of that tail"

[Edited 2013-01-18 02:55:45]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: IDISA
Posted 2013-01-18 02:59:06 and read 15851 times.

I can't believe AA changed such a brillant livery for this one...I mean, I LOVED the old one and I still think there's no better livery around the world than that wonderful shining aluminuim they had.
I found this one not bad, but certainly not so unique like the one they had.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LH7478i
Posted 2013-01-18 03:03:30 and read 15806 times.

I actually kind of like the new livery. But nothing compares to the old one. That was just gold.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2013-01-18 03:11:27 and read 15858 times.

Quoting LH7478i (Reply 139):
That was just gold.

No, it was silver.   

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-01-18 03:11:38 and read 15873 times.

Quoting LH7478i (Reply 139):
nothing compares to the old one. That was just gold.

  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: SQ773
Posted 2013-01-18 03:21:44 and read 15656 times.

I hope I get used to the new livery, so far both the logo and the livery look cheap to me. The logo reminds me of the Mexicana one, and the tail looks really charter/cheap to me.

I understand that AA needed a rebranding, but unless you improve the old one, just keep it like it was. American IMHO needed a livery and a logo worth its history ans his legacy. This one could be perfectly used by a start up carrier.

A real pity to me.

Rgds

SQ773

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: don0245
Posted 2013-01-18 03:36:35 and read 15600 times.

I'm with you PA110!    

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Owleye
Posted 2013-01-18 04:09:55 and read 15285 times.

I'm loving this new American. The design firm is proudly presenting its showcase:

http://www.futurebrand.com/

FutureBrand:

"Evolution of an Icon

American Airlines & FutureBrand Partner to Create a Modern New Look for the Iconic Brand

With the launch of a refreshed look and livery for American Airlines, FutureBrand is proud to announce our ongoing partnership with this truly iconic brand.

Recognizing that it was time for a new look to better reflect the progress it had made in the ongoing modernization of the airline, American engaged FutureBrand to partner on the modernization of the logo, livery and overall look and feel of the customer experience.

Our work is inspired by the company’s heritage and incorporates colors and symbols universally associated with the American brand. A reimagined logo—called the Flight Symbol—evokes the star, “A”, and iconic eagle of American’s past, all brought to life in refreshed shades of red, white and blue. Together, they reflect a more modern, vibrant and welcoming spirit.

The logo debuts along with a boldly reimagined livery. With proud stripes and a timeless silver body, the livery expresses American’s origins but also the spirit of modern America: innovative, progressive and open to the world.
During our multi-year collaboration with American, we’ve extended the new look to the broader customer experience—on web and mobile apps, modernized airport terminals and check-in experiences, premium airport lounges, updated onboard menus and communications, as well as a host of new branded elements. We continue our work with American as they continue their journey to modernize."

It's not an evolution but a revolution. The tail fin livery is bright, nice and happy looking. I'm pleased to see that it is not a Euro-white scheme. It's rare, distinctive. I'm sure that the livery design will grow on you soon or once. It's now time to remember/commemorate the old AA scheme(s) and to embrace the new one.

[Edited 2013-01-18 04:41:16]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-01-18 04:26:42 and read 15000 times.

I would compare this to the "new coke" debacle many years ago. AA had a timeless livery and they chose this awful scheme? The logo is just okay. If you aren't familiar with the eagle from AA the new logo looks like a pull tab or a sticker being pried from the surface.

The tail is absolutely the worst logo I think I've ever seen. It looks a bit like a Colgan Saab except Colgan had the decency to add a cheat line. It is inconceivable to me that the "best and brightest" at AA decided on this scheme. My condolences to the AA employees. There just be a write in campaign to keep the current bare metal. It is the classiest in the business. The new is anything but classy.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-01-18 04:30:13 and read 15129 times.

Take a look at the picture below. Is there just crap on the tail or is the paint already starting to come off near the top of the rudder, the base of the vertical stab and also just below the horizontal stab.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Statz

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: lexer
Posted 2013-01-18 04:34:08 and read 14915 times.

The tail reminds of one of the liveries of Capitol Air, it had a dollar sign in it, it was horrendous (Sky$aver, or something like that). Like that livery, this tail makes the airline look loud and crass, a bit like Texas. It looks like a low-cost or charter carrier. This is a pity, because the logo is quite nice, and so is the font on the plane, which gives a modern and clean look.

But the impression of the US flag could have been depicted on the tail in far more subtle and classy ways.

I also agree that the tail looks disjointed from the rest, the tail design doesn't extend to the belly of the plane, which makes it look unfinished, or as if it was screwed on at the last minute. The tail also does not integrate at all with the fuselage, which might have been achieved through a fairly subtle support line from the tail underneath the windows.

I understand that this is, to a large extent, a matter of taste and perhaps familiarity, but the structural flaws seem to be quite obvious in this case.

And all this blah blah in reply 144 above could also have been used with a better designed livery. But this ad agency prose is like an artist talking about his or her work, which is rarely a good idea.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: lexer
Posted 2013-01-18 04:37:20 and read 14881 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 144):
Evolution of an Icon

..

The logo debuts along with a boldly reimagined livery.


This is totally contradictory.

I wish it had been an evolution!

[Edited 2013-01-18 04:37:59]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-18 04:38:54 and read 14863 times.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 146):
Take a look at the picture below. Is there just crap on the tail or is the paint already starting to come off near the top of the rudder, the base of the vertical stab and also just below the horizontal stab.

Those are reflections from the lights.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: xdlx
Posted 2013-01-18 04:42:37 and read 14933 times.

Tally

Dislike 3873 and counting..... like 51.

If someone in DFW has any common sense they should gather the team on this project, walk them to their cars and exclude them from any future IMPORTANT decisions.
Oh wait ..... they went to Party City to find the in-flight ensamble....  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: BOAC911
Posted 2013-01-18 04:43:52 and read 14831 times.

This new branding...It won't last long.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: SRT75
Posted 2013-01-18 04:47:22 and read 14808 times.

In my opinion, hideous.

May have missed this in this very long thread, but what's the repaint schedule?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 0NEWAIR0
Posted 2013-01-18 04:50:54 and read 14832 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 149):
Those are reflections from the lights.

I think you're looking at the reflections next to the areas that I was referring to. Maybe I need to get paint out and mark up the photo.

Edit...

Ok, look at this picture...

Big version: Width: 1200 Height: 824 File size: 282kb


[Edited 2013-01-18 04:58:30]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: lostsound
Posted 2013-01-18 05:00:18 and read 14728 times.

This livery beatuiful. I love the clever styalized US flag and the new logo is stellar!

This will diffinitly be an attention grabber at airport where the old livery became annonymous.

If you look through all their branding materials you can see how everything comes together. Airport signage, lounge signage, etc... It will be a very new and improved American for sure!

Congrats AA.  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: n729pa
Posted 2013-01-18 05:02:09 and read 14638 times.

Having studied it for a while, I have to confess to not being very keen on it. It might look a bit better if there were some stars on the blue bit, but as a number of you have commented it does look a bit tacky.

It looks like something you'd find on a plastic toy a 5 year would have.

If fails me why some people think that a Corporation has to keep changing their colours/logos etc......Look at Ford, Coca Cola, and there are no doubt others if I think hard enough, where they've remained true to their identify all along. Granted they may have the old tweek, but if some one showed you a coke tin from 60 years ago you'd know what it is and if someone from 1920 came back know, they'd recognise the Ford oval.

It's a waste of money, that could have been better spent improving services for the customers, working conditions for the employees, etc etc etc

It doesn't say USA to me........more like a Central American Republic airline.

At least it's not another white scheme, thats all.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-18 05:04:27 and read 14624 times.

As much as we all complain about AA's new livery, I think it is save to say that no one could have ever seen this new livery being used. In that regards they surprised us all a lot. I have never seen an iconic brand being so drastically changed so it definately has to grow on me. I do admit that the livery looks very nice at night, especially the tail logo. Still too bad that the original AA logo isn't incorporated anywhere in the new livery. Maybe this has to do with the potential US take-over?

A388

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 71Zulu
Posted 2013-01-18 05:08:48 and read 14643 times.

Anyone have the flight schedule for N908NN?

FA stll shows it in VCV.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N908NN

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Giacomino

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-01-18 05:24:49 and read 14432 times.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 153):
I think you're looking at the reflections next to the areas that I was referring to. Maybe I need to get paint out and mark up the photo.

The two spots along the rudder are the lights reflecting off the sides of bulges where the rudder is connected to the tail. The spot in the blue section is also due to something that is found on the tail- I am not exactly sure what. You can see it on the other side of aircraft and on the old livery (Look at the leading edge of the red A):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Eggers
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Weyrauch



Everything in the lower end of the tail looks like reflections- intense light can give some funky reflections on new (re: very shiny) paint. I can't tell if the line you are referring to below the horizontal stabilizer is a mark from the stabilizer or just a reflection following a natural line on the plane.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: DTW2HYD
Posted 2013-01-18 05:29:19 and read 14334 times.

Boeing should thank AA. 787 is no longer on the front page. Please don't repaint too many.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 05:46:55 and read 14127 times.

I acually think the tail is the best part of the livery which is overall very nice, but the silver should have been a different tone or white instead, and they should have made the logo more like the old one so it would still look like an actual eagle.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2013-01-18 06:01:20 and read 13988 times.

Quoting Victr (Reply 80):
my question when is aa.com and digital assets of the company in terms of time will be rebranded

According to an interview with Tom Horton, today.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-01-18 06:02:00 and read 13963 times.

You're right.

New carbon-fiber composite frames do need paint.

The old days of the polished aluminum frames are gone.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-01-18 06:04:56 and read 13901 times.

Looks like Steve Wolf had some input on it. But it's part of a significant identity change, so maybe that's good at this point.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ual777uk
Posted 2013-01-18 06:05:49 and read 13908 times.

I actually like it but i am at a loss as to why the new flag ship 77W was not completed before the big unveil.

I think a shed load of those tails all lined up at DFW will look great.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: RICARIZA
Posted 2013-01-18 06:15:12 and read 13894 times.

I put it as a wallpaper to see it constantly and it its starting to grow on me. ( I mean the tail design which is the only part that I don't like - yet- )..

http://arizainc.tripod.com/AANEWLIVE.JPG

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 757gb
Posted 2013-01-18 06:16:37 and read 13784 times.

I think they did a good job if I think about what I perceive as their intentions:

- Great new logo
- Tail is not pleasing to the eye initially, but you can get used to it
- The design is bold - which means among other things that they know it will generate resistance
- There is no question that it's different and not a simple update of their existing livery
- It certainly screams NEW
- It also screams AMERICAN
- It can be easily adapted if the merger comes through

And something else that came to mind: if they had done something not so shocking and less controversial, half the people would have liked it, half the people wouldn't have, but everyone would get over it in a short time.

In this way, everyone seems to be talking about it. In other words, by generating controversy they are making people talk about American's re-branding.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it was part of the intention all along...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-18 06:19:35 and read 13756 times.

Quoting 757gb (Reply 166):
Maybe it's just me, but I think it was part of the intention all along...

That is well said, I agree with you.

A388

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 06:23:35 and read 13803 times.

On the computer generated image of the 777 and the pic of the 737 in the hangar, I think the livery is spot on  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AA777223
Posted 2013-01-18 06:28:50 and read 13637 times.

Has anyone said that the new AA.com is up? Check the homepage.

Now that I look through it, it makes perfect sense. It toally matches their iPad app. I should have seen some of this coming. I suspected their was likely a correlation.

[Edited 2013-01-18 06:30:02]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: boeingpride800
Posted 2013-01-18 06:29:16 and read 13626 times.

It's definitely more modern but I can't get over the tail!! The styles of the logo and tail seem to be completely opposite. It's like the tail design is straight out of the 90s or a default Flight Sim airline.

Will be interesting to see what's next for this airline.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: american 767
Posted 2013-01-18 06:48:35 and read 13368 times.

I wasn't too happy at first glance when I first saw it, I thought it was dull, but when I look at it more closely I see that there is some advanced design within the red and blue stripes. The are smaller stripes going from a darker to a lighter tone, and vice versa. That makes it look modern. We'll get used to it.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 06:48:45 and read 13444 times.


Even the curve of the eagles head/beak mirrors the curve of the stylized U in United. Uninspired.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-01-18 06:53:15 and read 13405 times.

Quoting Owleye (Reply 125):
Agree. AA's previous livery was not boring but could use a subtle upgrade though. Now it is drastically done, true. Not bad but totally different. Isn't this new branding/livery the result of US Airways and AA merger? Take that into account as well.

Horton and Parker have stated that US had no input on the AA creative process. I'm inclined to believe that no consideration was made for the merger / US's livery as the rebrand process began at least two years ago. But at the very least, there was no direct consultation between US/AA in terms of designing the new colors.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 127):
It is iconic and easily recognizable. Just like the old brand, everyone is going to quickly learn this new brand. It's not exactly subtle and cheerily inoffensive like the CO livery (it's not the UA livery and never will be). And it will be very easy to recognize from afar.

  

Give it time. If it was another Eurowhite scheme, the same people would be complaining about how AA is too predictable.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: birdbrainz
Posted 2013-01-18 07:03:06 and read 13206 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 5):
OK, everyone is going to think I'm nuts but after staring at it for 30 minutes I actually have already come to accept it and think it's sort of cool. From pictures I see it in flight it realize is a stylized flag with a very cool logo. I even sort of like the plainness of the grey. Weird that it grew on me that quickly.

Likewise. I hated the tail at first, but it really grew on me. It reminds me of Chopin's music. There's something about his music that is both atonal and absolutely beautiful that makes you intrigued and you can't stop listening. Parts of Rhapsody in Blue are like this.

Anyhow, I promise you that in couple of years, the tail will become as iconic and loved as much as the original. In fact, more so. This makes United's and Delta's liveries downright boring.

Now, as for the logo, I don't like it, and I agree that it's too much like Greyhound. I really wish that the scissors were kept, just as I wish that the tulip was kept at United. I love UA's colors, but please bring the tulip back!

Quoting PA110 (Reply 14):
Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters?

Exactly. Maybe AI, and possibly Hawaiian. I think there was also a Fijian one recently.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-18 07:12:00 and read 13067 times.

Second day of looking at the livery I would say the outdated font for the title and the new logo are the only things that need to go, the Eagle logo retained as it was part blue, part red would have suffuced perhaps as a small decal near the cockpit or on the engines, and AMERICAN should have been in some smart new font, tail is a good concept but boringly executed and too stiff while the new logo is soft a clash in my opinion, maybe something stylised like Garuda with shades of reds and blues would have been nicer, just hinting at the flag and not literally being it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EaglePower83
Posted 2013-01-18 07:16:06 and read 12988 times.

For everyone griping about the flag, I think it looks very nice.
I LIKE the gradient stripes.
It's a stylized flag.
And if you put stars in it or removed the gradients, it would look more old-fashioned, more boring, and more like Cubana.
In fact, I don't think it looks anything like Cubana because they stylized it so much.
Flat paint and stars would actually make it look cheap and drab in contrast to what we actually got now.

I AAprove.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: COEWR2587
Posted 2013-01-18 07:17:35 and read 13028 times.

THIS IS JUST UGLY UGLY UGLY

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: sunilgupta
Posted 2013-01-18 07:18:46 and read 13031 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 92):
For the umpteenth time, with the Airbus and 787 a/c arriving, and composite materials being used more and more, the polished look would have been impossible to keep, unless you favor the all-white look they experimented with before:

That wasn't an experiment. Those planes came from another airline (Reno Air) and were pressed into service before they could be stripped and polished.

Count me in as being very disappointed with the new scheme. It looks cheap and ill-conceived. There is WAAAYYY to much going on with that tail. I really like the concepts floating around that place the "wing" logo that is in front of the titles on the tail, such as this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/concord977/8390928996

Sunil

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: faro
Posted 2013-01-18 07:26:26 and read 12852 times.

Not a bad livery when you get used to it but the present polished metal with red white and blue cheat lines really is exceptionally good; better, much better in fact that the new livery. It wasn't broken and didn't need fixing...pity really.


Faro

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: PC12Fan
Posted 2013-01-18 07:28:53 and read 12963 times.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 14):
Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters?
Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 45):
Complete overhaul successes: Saudi Arabian, LAN, Thai (especially the metallic purple), Air Fiji, Aerolineas

TWA?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michel Gilliand

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

Now THAT is soo much better! Would have looked great with several parked at the gate.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: questions
Posted 2013-01-18 07:32:45 and read 12765 times.

I would like to see the other options the focused groups saw!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: sirloin
Posted 2013-01-18 07:38:40 and read 12691 times.

If somebody with Photoshop skills has the time, I'd be curious to see what it would look like if the tail design was extended the length of the fuselage. That should give a pretty cool thick red cheat line.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 07:45:50 and read 12615 times.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 180):

[quote=PC12Fan,reply=180]Quoting PA110 (Reply 14):
Has there ever been a new livery that has been well received by A.nutters?
Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 45):
Complete overhaul successes: Saudi Arabian, LAN, Thai (especially the metallic purple), Air Fiji, Aerolineas

TWA?



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 180):


That livery was beyond gorgeous! No, "It will grow on me." I loved it from the moment I saw it.

[Edited 2013-01-18 07:47:02]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2013-01-18 07:47:56 and read 12576 times.

Honestly the tail is growing on me....the more I look at it, I think I would have been a lot more forgiving if there were some curves to the stripes..something more graceful and elegant. ..like the Russian flag on Aeroflot's planes. This is too 'horizontal'.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: N737AA
Posted 2013-01-18 07:59:50 and read 12419 times.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 157):
Anyone have the flight schedule for N908NN?

FA stll shows it in VCV.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N908NN


View Large View Medium

Photo © Ryan Giacomino

Company computers show it unassigned in DFW and no routing has been loaded yet, but it will be going on a roadshow to many of the stations. I've been told it will be in TUL on Tuesday, but not confirmed yet.


N737AA

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-18 08:05:27 and read 12344 times.

Quoting n729pa (Reply 155):
If fails me why some people think that a Corporation has to keep changing their colours/logos etc......Look at Ford, Coca Cola, and there are no doubt others if I think hard enough, where they've remained true to their identify all along. Granted they may have the old tweek, but if some one showed you a coke tin from 60 years ago you'd know what it is and if someone from 1920 came back know, they'd recognise the Ford oval.

First, it's very common for a bankrupt company to introduce new branding while in bankruptcy or shortly after exiting bankruptcy. If you look at airlines, they seem to do this with regularity. The last CO livery was introduced after the last bankruptcy. DL came out with a new livery after exiting Chapter 11, despite the fact that it was just finishing repainting the fleet into the wavy gravy livery. TWA's last livery was introduced after a trip through bankruptcy.

While the Coca-Cola logo hasn't changed, there have been tweaks to the Coke logo, and they seem to fiddle with the Diet Coke labeling every few years. Ford has either used the blue oval or the script Ford in blue for decades, but there was a time, I think late 40s to early 60s, when Ford Motor Division had a logo very different from the FoMoCo logo.

AA happened to pick a logo and livery that held up very well for 45 years. But, they have to paint the 787s and the Airbuses. I think the fact that mainline was in bare metal, while Eagle had white planes was a bit confusing. If you have to paint the fleet, in order to get a uniform look, and the company is coming out of bankruptcy, it's the perfect time for rebranding.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: rifkyrifky
Posted 2013-01-18 08:08:00 and read 12394 times.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 184):



Yes i do believe so, The tail is just too much for my liking..
and also I do believe that AA has push its self too far on this one..  

Regards,
Rifky

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-18 08:09:07 and read 12307 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 19):
The corporate logo actually looks fine, and even the scheme on the 737 doesn't look terrible. But on the 77W, I cringe. The tail is really the weak point. It really does look like the Cubana flag and that's what is going to resonate in my mind EVERY time I see the scheme on a widebody.

The comparison to CU is valid but I didn't think that at first, and of course the flying populace will hardly notice I bet.

Quoting xkorpyoh (Reply 42):

What if AA had 3 different designs and allowed employees and travelers to vote for their favorites, then decide?
Wouldn't that have been better, specially for employees to feel included and show them that they matter?

What would employees know about marketing? Then there would have been some awful ones that may have been allowed to make it though, and you can't make everybody happy.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 68):
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 65):
The more Horton talked on stage, however, the more I felt he didn't know what he was talking about. At one point he said "with this brand, we will have the most recognizable and iconic airline brand in the world." At that point, my smile faded.

Why? He's the CEO of AMR so of course he's going to be a cheerleader for the brand. What was he supposed to say? "With this brand, we will have a mediocre-looking airline."?

Exactly!

Quoting asuflyer (Reply 57):

I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.
Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 96):

I think they should have at least included the logo on the tail. The flag just looks tacky. IMO If they wanted a flag they should have gone with darker reds and blues.

I drew up the logo on the tail, but still I think the logo needs work.

Now that was ugly. Really is more of a European look to it.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 131):
Kudos for the refresh. I actually really like the new logo, I loved it at the first sight. Although I'm probably one of the few on here  
Quoting a380heavy (Reply 129):
In my opinion the new livery instantly makes the one it replaces look old fashioned.

I absolutely agree.



Exactly what I think.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 146):
Take a look at the picture below. Is there just crap on the tail or is the paint already starting to come off near the top of the rudder, the base of the vertical stab and also just below the horizontal stabilizer

This version looks stupid and I was just about sick when I saw how you bastardized the new livery.

When I looked at it up close, on the picture anyways, it was very interesting in how they use the different shades of blue on there and how they incorporated the red, white and blue. Very artistic and beautiful up close.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: JBo
Posted 2013-01-18 08:13:36 and read 12254 times.

I've chimed in on nearly every major airlines' livery change since I've been on A.net ... AA's I'm actually impressed by.

That said, I'm not sure it will have the timeless longevity of its predecessor, but I still find it incredibly refreshing and I still think it stands out against the comparatively bland branding of Delta and United.

The tail logo doesn't thrill me ... especially with the flag stripes only going partway down the fuselage leaving the awkward gray stripe at the bottom. I think it would have been more compelling to carry the new Eagle logo to the tail or do a flag motif that had more "flow" to it (which would then be reminiscent of Delta, now that I think about it).

Even so, I'm impressed. I had much lower expectations for AA but I like what I see. It's a refreshing change, overall.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: frontierflyer
Posted 2013-01-18 09:03:21 and read 11544 times.

What are the chances they dump this sorry excuse for a livery? As much as I try , I can get past how ugly the tail is. SAVE the scissor eagle!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Western727
Posted 2013-01-18 09:04:05 and read 11541 times.

Any photos of the 752 in the new livery, yet? We've seen the YouTube video showing the painting of the aircraft. I wonder why we've not seen it in public yet like the 738.

I think seeing the livery on a second a/c type will help me further (and more fairly) judge the livery. I remain of the logo = lovely/classy; tail = cheap/clash-y majority here, though.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: alfa164
Posted 2013-01-18 09:19:26 and read 11318 times.

If this is the best of the options they were given, I would ,love to see what they rejected.

Does any "insider" have a way fo find those other proposals?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: KGRB
Posted 2013-01-18 09:21:00 and read 11347 times.

I'm going to hold my judgement until I see it in person. My initial reaction to this is the same as so many of you, but it may look better to me when I see a lineup of flag tails at ORD or DFW. I also hated the DL 2007 livery at first, but it grew on me -- so much so that it's now my favorite current livery.

My biggest complaint, however, is dropping the 'AA' from the logo. Having the FF program called 'AAdvantage' makes no sense now.

Quoting questions (Reply 115):
I get hung up on the choice of blue and red... the blue looks very close to DL Signature Blue.

You get hung up on blue and red? What did you expect them to use, orange and green? And that light blue looks nothing like the dark shade Delta uses.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: lostsound
Posted 2013-01-18 09:28:31 and read 11241 times.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 194):
Having the FF program called 'AAdvantage' makes no sense now.

Website address is AA.com, AA stands for American Airlines which is still the company name, AA is the airline's IATA callsign, etc...  

I still think this is the best livery of all the legacies in the US. Absolutely stunning, clever, and intuitve.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: CF-CPI
Posted 2013-01-18 09:30:18 and read 11167 times.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 194):
What did you expect them to use, orange and green?

To be honest, I had thought they might go back to some use of orange, mostly as an accent to pearly paint, silver mica, etc. Somewhere in these long threads about AA's new scheme, there were some efforts by an anetter, and they consisted of mostly grey tones, without the red/white/blue. If you added some orange accents reminiscent of the lightning bolt, you could have something just as pleasingly retro and reminiscent of Good Old Days. Orange is not a commonly used color, and it would have been distinctive - arguably more so than reds and blues.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-01-18 09:36:10 and read 11102 times.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinion. But there is a reason the people at FutureBrand do this for a living and almost everyone here does not. Those designers went to art school, they studied the history of art, of iconography, and of commercial design.

On the contrary, every alternative livery that was presented here showed no understanding of the American symbology, made use of a variation of the scissor eagle that in itself was already outdated, used lines whether curved or straight on the basis of pure whim, and indeed had no other justification for what would make a great livery than personal taste.

As I tried to argue in the other threads, this livery expresses a very complex understanding of the brand and the history of its aesthetic presentation. The silver bird was an artifact of the same aesthetic principles that thought machines in their basic forms were beautiful and indicative of the direction designers should take in making other things. In architectural history that period is known as streamline moderne.

This livery tries to reinvent that past. In many ways, the tail is what it is because the designers have an excellent understanding of what became of the "band" or "stripe" in other attempts to reinvent streamline moderne. They've studied for example, Runyan's logo for the LA Olympics, "Stars in Motion", which in my opinion uses stripping in much the same way as this tail does.

Sorry to have to say this, but none of the alternative liveries presented here did any of this. The ones with the swoopy or curvy lines and eagles did the most to ignore the guiding principles of the brand since almost its inception.

[Edited 2013-01-18 09:51:01]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2013-01-18 09:38:19 and read 11060 times.

I dislike this on the scale of " sure jet" level of dislike. The AA is gone. Why not incorporate an updated AA symbol on tail

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-01-18 09:38:27 and read 11080 times.

After looking at it a few more times, im beginning to really like it! Its definitely a grower in my opinion, lets give it some time when more aircraft are painted.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-18 09:44:41 and read 10956 times.

Having slept on it, I'm left with a lingering question. What makes this branding better when it has to "grow on" someone?

Take away all of the comparisons of old vs. new. Take away the elements of trying to be inclusive of AA's history. Just look at it in terms of would you pick this for a livery if you were branding an airline. For me, no. The tail is still a monstrosity and out of place in the overall design.

The comparisons with the 2000 version of TWA's livery are valid. What TWA painted on their planes was modern and relevant without being off-putting to anyone. I've a feeling that the new AA livery will become the Pontiac Aztek of the skies—something that'll just be endured by most rather than enjoyed by many.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-01-18 09:44:58 and read 10976 times.

Something I just noticed... They REALLY REALLY need to make the lower portion red. Not because it will make it look better or more complete ( which it will) but because If they make it red, that makes it the correct flag pattern, 7 red and 6 white.

I wonder if we can throw some flag laws at them to make them do it right!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: martinrpo1
Posted 2013-01-18 09:59:57 and read 10804 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 197):
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 199):

WELL SAID!!!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-01-18 10:01:42 and read 10750 times.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 153):
I think you're looking at the reflections next to the areas that I was referring to. Maybe I need to get paint out and mark up the photo.Edit... Ok, look at this picture...

Nothing you circled has anything to do with paint peeling off. You circled reflections, an instrument (perhaps a pitot tube), the lines along the hinge where the rudder meets the vertical stabilizer and a few surfaces or seams that are raised a bit, catching the light and reflections in such a way that a line becomes visible.

[Edited 2013-01-18 10:03:54]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: BA0197
Posted 2013-01-18 10:12:53 and read 10550 times.

I must say that the livery is dawning on me. At work I have heard the same things from many employees. They are just changing an icon, so naturally everyone will have an initial feeling or resentment. Yet, as I said, the tail is starting to take its shape in my mind, and in other employee's minds.

I am very happy to see this through. The plane will look modern, the seats will be the drastic difference here. TVs in economy within the US is one key improvement. Airport sign-age will be updated, new uniforms given, and the passenger will be flying in the best hard product within the US on a large airline. The new AA.com looks great.

As others have mentioned, I too am under the impression that AA has had a huge bit of inspiration from BA, a hugely positive thing in my book. The new "Flight symbol" reminds me of the Speedmarque; The stylised flag stems from BA. The new Flagship First and Business are reminiscent of BA F and CW. Main cabin extra= AA's version of WT+. Even some of the service aspects are coming in line with BA's (amuse bouche in F, pajamas in F etc). I think that BA was the standard that they used to upgrade the product.

I am truly optimistic and proud to work for AA in this changing time and hope that we will continue to be America's premium airline. By the sound of it, we sure will be.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: SEA
Posted 2013-01-18 10:22:59 and read 10387 times.

No matter what livery AA had come up with, A.net would have hated it for the most part.

I, OTOH, don't find it to be too bad. I don't think it's particularly strong branding, but I think we will see it evolve in the next year or so. I really like the tail. While I'm not a huge fan of the grey, I am exceedingly thankful that it isn't a plain Euro white fuselage. That deserves some credit.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-18 10:37:21 and read 10166 times.

To most of the naysayers, I say that all you should do is wait until we see it in regular service to see what you may think of it. My greatest fear would be that AA would go the way of AF, LH, and other European airlines that obviously did not spend time "branding" their aircraft and just put their name and or their phone number or website on the side of an all white body. And just put AA on the tail. Let us just look around at the other airlines out there and analyse their new paint jobs to the extent that AA has been and will be.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 10:38:42 and read 10141 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 197):
Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinion. But there is a reason the people at FutureBrand do this for a living and almost everyone here does not. Those designers went to art school, they studied the history of art, of iconography, and of commercial design.



And the designers who did each failed Delta Livery also went to art school and studied art, iconography and commercial design. Yet each of those liveries were colossal disappointments, Why? Because the designers removed everything that made the classic iconic livery work, and ultimately in the end they added back the widget (at least in some form.)
Designers don't always get it right...as the aforementioned referrance to the Pontiac Aztec proves.

[Edited 2013-01-18 10:53:18]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: pennstation
Posted 2013-01-18 10:46:03 and read 10025 times.

Quoting N737AA (Reply 185):
Company computers show it unassigned in DFW and no routing has been loaded yet, but it will be going on a roadshow to many of the stations

I saw it a couple of hours ago parked just east of the west hangars at DFW - clearly visible from terminal B. I can't say that I like the tail, but it didn't look as bad from a distance as I was expecting it to based on the pictures I saw yesterday.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 10:49:31 and read 9964 times.

"It's growing on me," "It didnt look as bad from a distance," "It will look better on the 777.." "It probably looks better in person."
Are these all the reactions to a successful livery?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EaglePower83
Posted 2013-01-18 10:54:13 and read 9879 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 197):
Sorry to have to say this, but none of the alternative liveries presented here did any of this. The ones with the swoopy or curvy lines and eagles did the most to ignore the guiding principles of the brand since almost its inception.

  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-01-18 10:58:02 and read 9821 times.

Quoting tothestars (Reply 207):
And the designers who did each failed Delta Livery also went to art school and studied art, iconography and commercial design. Yet each of those liveries were colossal disappointments, Why? Because the designers removed everything that made the classic iconic livery work, and ultimately in the end they added back the widget (at least in some form.)

The three symbols of American are the star (as in Admirals Club logo), the eagle, and the A.

The forms associated with the brand are the bar (stripes) and the triangle (as in the A and scissor eagle).

All of these symbols and their corresponding forms are there in the new livery.

So I don't see what is similar at all to the problem posed by the Delta "Wavy Gravy" livery.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 10:59:43 and read 9759 times.

Quoting tothestars (Reply 209):

No matter what the livery would have looked like, you would have received those reactions from some people.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: PacNWJet
Posted 2013-01-18 11:03:03 and read 9719 times.

I stand by my previous comment that the stylized flag on the tail reminds me of what you would see on the side of a moving van.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-18 11:06:27 and read 9605 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 211):
All of these symbols and their corresponding forms are there in the new livery.

All of your posts explaining the design basics of the new livery are appreciated. I'd like to hear your answer to this question though: If you were the CEO of a company, any company, would you intentionally select a branding that's immediately offensive to half of your audience simply to make a design statement?

[Edited 2013-01-18 11:06:57]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 11:16:42 and read 9412 times.

My girlfriend's initial reaction (and she knows nothing about aviation) was: "that looks terrific!". Maybe you only find so many negative reactions here on a.net and not so much amongst everyone else.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-01-18 11:17:35 and read 9418 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 214):
All of your posts explaining the design basics of the new livery are appreciated. I'd like to hear your answer to this question though: If you were the CEO of a company, any company, would you intentionally select a branding that's immediately offensive to half of your audience simply to make a design statement?

The livery offends you?? lol. Well to be honest, how would you know (If you were the CEO) that it offends someone when only a select few knows about what it looks like? You can't please everyone.... Everyone has their own opinions, whether we agree or disagree. If you dont like it then you just dont. If those who approved the livery didnt like it and thought it was offensive, then it wouldn't be on the aircraft now... I dont see anything offensive about it, but then thats just my opinion...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: jmw99ttu
Posted 2013-01-18 11:20:48 and read 9352 times.

I wish a.net had been around in '68 when the current livery rolled out. I'm sure the reactions would be the same as we see here today.

That said, I caught the 737 landing on my way into to the office yesterday. It looked great in person. Love at first sight.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-18 11:23:43 and read 9320 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 216):
Well to be honest, how would you know (If you were the CEO) that it offends someone when only a select few knows about what it looks like?

Focus groups! That's what they're there for.

All you have to do is read the hundreds of posts on this and other websites saying "logo great, tail huge fail" to get a basic idea of what I'm talking about. If AA didn't go through at least a basic review of how their design would be accepted by the public at large, all I can do is shake my head at whatever process they used.

That said, I'd like to hear your answer to my question, rather than just commenting on the question.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Western727
Posted 2013-01-18 11:24:17 and read 9322 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 200):
What makes this branding better when it has to "grow on" someone?

  

I remain of the "tail's blah" crowd. It's just loud and not pleasant to look at the way others' tails (DL, BA, VS, SQ,) are. It simply doesn't do the great institution of AA justice. The logo I think is beautiful - I would've loved to have seen some variation of that on the tail instead - easier on the eyes and less busy.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: airbalticfan
Posted 2013-01-18 11:28:56 and read 9212 times.

That livery is awful, simply wrong! Shame on those who had a decision rights to approve this mess! Yikes!

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: hummingbird1
Posted 2013-01-18 11:37:58 and read 9090 times.

Just asked a couple of "ordinary" people between 17 and 49 - not folks who love to discuss whether the tip of the nose should be pitch black or maybe a dark shade of grey. Comparison between almost identical landing shots of 737-800 in old and new c/s. And guess what? The new livery got 100% preference over the old one, which was rated as "boring", "outdated", "bland", ...
So, please: Get over it - and move yourselves into the year 2013

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-01-18 11:42:11 and read 9016 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 218):

Well then here's my answer to your question:

Obviously I wouldn't choose a livery that was offensive or I would believe to be offensive to anyone. But like I said in my previous post its all about opinion. Whatever board approved of the livery obviously thought it was good enough (at least probably by majority vote). If not, then it would have been scrapped. Whether the flying public like it or not, that's their opinion. When you design something like this you have to remember that your aren't gonna please everyone, you'll please some but not all. No individual's opinion is better than another's opinion. I'd love to see something designed that would receive 100% positive reaction, but something like that will probably never happen...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Western727
Posted 2013-01-18 11:48:37 and read 8901 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 222):
I'd love to see something designed that would receive 100% positive reaction, but something like that will probably never happen...

Sure - not everyone can be pleased as we all know. But I think it's easy to glean from this forum that the majority don't like it. That's well beyond "can't please everyone".

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-01-18 11:52:40 and read 8892 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 215):
My girlfriend's initial reaction (and she knows nothing about aviation) was: "that looks terrific!". Maybe you only find so many negative reactions here on a.net and not so much amongst everyone else.

  

I love a.net but people on here seem to have the most bizarre taste in liveries, everyone seemed to love that atrocious blue and yellow AeroSvit livery, but somehow this (AA's new livery) "offends" everyone to the bone. Color me confused.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 218):
Focus groups! That's what they're there for.

I'm sorry but I don't think you can call a.net or other aviation sites reliable focus groups, I'd say most of us are two steps away from crazy when it comes to aviation (in a good way of course) and, because it's our hobby and we all have our different preferences, over-analyze and over-think every minute detail of planes and livery histories, not really an accurate gauge for the majority of the flying public.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-18 11:54:15 and read 8827 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 222):
Obviously I wouldn't choose a livery that was offensive or I would believe to be offensive to anyone.

Thank you, but that's apparently what AA has done, by reading forums here and elsewhere. They made a poor choice.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 222):
I'd love to see something designed that would receive 100% positive reaction, but something like that will probably never happen.

Scroll back a few posts to the photo of TWA's 2000-era livery. Modern, relevant, incorporated the airline's history, and done in an inoffensive way. So yes, it can happen. I liked the CO livery when it first came out, along with many others. I'm not in the "can't please him" crowd, I'm with the "let's do it right" crowd.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-01-18 12:12:04 and read 8541 times.

Quoting Western727 (Reply 223):
But I think it's easy to glean from this forum that the majority don't like it. That's well beyond "can't please everyone".

Yes, true, your probably right about that. However, a.net only has a small fraction of the population who fly...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 225):
but that's apparently what AA has done, by reading forums here and elsewhere. They made a poor choice.

Says you... but I guess your free to say what you want...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 225):
Scroll back a few posts to the photo of TWA's 2000-era livery. Modern, relevant, incorporated the airline's history, and done in an inoffensive way. So yes, it can happen. I liked the CO livery when it first came out, along with many others. I'm not in the "can't please him" crowd, I'm with the "let's do it right" crowd.

I highly doubt that livery received 100% positive reviews (unless you prove to me that it did), plus your opinion is not the only one that matters, but to each his own...

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: A388
Posted 2013-01-18 12:20:54 and read 8437 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 226):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 225):
but that's apparently what AA has done, by reading forums here and elsewhere. They made a poor choice.

Says you... but I guess your free to say what you want...

Member 757gb describes it the best:


I think they did a good job if I think about what I perceive as their intentions:

- Great new logo
- Tail is not pleasing to the eye initially, but you can get used to it
- The design is bold - which means among other things that they know it will generate resistance
- There is no question that it's different and not a simple update of their existing livery
- It certainly screams NEW
- It also screams AMERICAN
- It can be easily adapted if the merger comes through

And something else that came to mind: if they had done something not so shocking and less controversial, half the people would have liked it, half the people wouldn't have, but everyone would get over it in a short time.

In this way, everyone seems to be talking about it. In other words, by generating controversy they are making people talk about American's re-branding.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it was part of the intention all along...

I also agree with his post, AA is actually getting all the attention because everybody is still talking about it. This results in people memorizing AA's new livery very well. This on its turn is a very clever way to have people remember your new corporate identity (whether it be good or bad).

A388

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: frontierflyer
Posted 2013-01-18 12:21:35 and read 8442 times.

The tail design looks like a rough sketch . I can't stress the word ROUGH enough .

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 12:31:00 and read 8307 times.

I think it's a clean, modern, logo, I just dont think it follows the historical progression of the AA branding which has always been honest and forthwright (like how we Americans think of America,) two A's and a swooping eagle, that's it. This new logo makes you work to see these things, it makes you have to use your brain. You have to look at the negative space, and you have to look for what's not there. Some may see an eagles head, some may see a cats claw, some may see symbolic wings and some may even see a snow board with a broken strap, it's all subjective, unlike all of AA's previous logo's.
Equally tiring is It's no longer called a logo...its now called a "flight symbol' or something equally nouveau touchy feelie "creative," Maybe this "flight symbol" should not only be the new symbol for American Airlines but the symbol for the new America, but hey, i'm sure we'll get used to it.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-18 12:40:14 and read 8176 times.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 6):
Sorry but why did they do away with that Absolutely Iconic Livery?


Because even iconic liveries become out of date.

While I was not a fan of the new livery initially, I will say that I like it now. It is fresh, clean, and modern which the old livery was not.

I was at DFW yesterday and saw the new livery on displays throughout the airport. It really does look good. I think we just need to give it some time.

[Edited 2013-01-18 13:24:21]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-01-18 12:43:59 and read 8160 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 214):
All of your posts explaining the design basics of the new livery are appreciated. I'd like to hear your answer to this question though: If you were the CEO of a company, any company, would you intentionally select a branding that's immediately offensive to half of your audience simply to make a design statement?

How do you know it is offensive to half of its intended audience? As to what I would do as CEO, I would choose something that was bold and different, while honoring the history of the brand. I think the new AA livery meets those requirements.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 225):
Scroll back a few posts to the photo of TWA's 2000-era livery. Modern, relevant, incorporated the airline's history, and done in an inoffensive way. So yes, it can happen. I liked the CO livery when it first came out, along with many others. I'm not in the "can't please him" crowd, I'm with the "let's do it right" crowd.

We have a difference of opinion here as well. The last TWA livery couldn't decide what it wanted to be. It has a painted belly, it has a cheat line, it has the globe, and it has the TWA letter logo. The result is a pastiche.

As to the last CO livery, my dislike for it begins with the banal globe on the tail. This was someone's idea for updating the CO meatball. The meatball wasn't a globe. It was a contrail pattern in a circle, suggestive of the world but not identical with it. In fact, the livery was dubbed "Contrails" by the designer.

The designer of the last CO livery translated that contrail pattern into the longitudinal lines of the globe, thus rendering it almost unrecognizable. If that weren't enough, he got rid of the orange and true gold and arranged everything into the most conservative composition imaginable. If the last TWA livery couldn't decide what it wanted to be, the last CO livery had decided it didn't want to be anything.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-18 12:57:55 and read 7948 times.

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 213):
I stand by my previous comment that the stylized flag on the tail reminds me of what you would see on the side of a moving van.

Right so what is the US Air livery all about?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 214):
All of your posts explaining the design basics of the new livery are appreciated. I'd like to hear your answer to this question though: If you were the CEO of a company, any company, would you intentionally select a branding that's immediately offensive to half of your audience simply to make a design statement?

Just because it is offensive to those on here, I reiterate that 80% of the flying public would not even notice.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 225):
Thank you, but that's apparently what AA has done, by reading forums here and elsewhere. They made a poor choice.

They made a great choice, just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is bad. BTW, have you sen how many posts are about the new paint job? I think they might just have it right.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: airproxx
Posted 2013-01-18 13:00:40 and read 7880 times.

Let's face it clearly; this long awaited livery is just far below all expectations. The least to say is that it's just boring, and disappointing.
Looking back some decades ago, the liveries were created by real artists. Nowadays artists have been replaced by publicists, and the result is simply a shame.
The new Iberia livery is gonna be as awful as this one. The so called "new" AF one was ridiculous, and no real inspired livery has seen the day since ages..

But the problem is, the AA brand is just an aviation icon, that nobody amongst the aviation enthusiasts community ignores, and now this: a complete destruction of what this iconic brand was composed: Bare metal, simple horizontal stripes reminding the American flag, and the "eagle logo". Nothing of it all is featured in this new livery.

It's even worse; trying to evoke the bare metal look with a dull grey-white paint, the eagle by a boxed beak, and the American flag stripes by some blue and red brushed sketch lines on the tail, is more than just disappointing... I personally think (and I do weigh my words) that this awful paint is an INSULT to the true AA 68' livery.

This paint is a shame.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-01-18 13:02:57 and read 7856 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 231):
How do you know it is offensive to half of its intended audience?

As the CEO, in my example, it would be your duty to know. It would be your duty to evaluate public reaction to your branding, positively or negatively.

I don't know why my question is so difficult to answer without folks running around it in circles qualifying it. Forget about this particular branding. Focus on the question, if you were in charge, would you select a branding that caused the level of bad reactions as we're seeing towards this branding.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 231):
As to the last CO livery, my dislike for it begins with the banal globe on the tail.

Great, but it's not really part of the conversation. I simply added that paragraph to establish that I'm not a "can't please him with anything" kinda guy.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2013-01-18 13:07:28 and read 7792 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 99):
Aeroflot, China Airlines and Mexicana all have their logo on the tail (in Mexicana's case the colors are different but the design is the same). I already mentioned BA as one that doesn't, and I hadn't thought of Asiana. Alaska and Frontier aren't really major world airlines, so they don't count.

Ah, so now we're adding qualifiers. Branding's only important for "major" airlines now, I see. Which is defined by you how? Alaska isn't a major world airline but Mexicana is? (I'll grant you Mexicana, btw... I was looking at their old logo and their new livery, not realizing they also changed the logo.)

Aeroflot logo: http://www.freevector.com/site_media...mages/FreeVector-Aeroflot-Logo.jpg
Aeroflot tail: http://airlinetaillogos.files.wordpr...wn-03tail-lhr-a6hr.jpg?w=291&h=300

China Airlines' logo is the wordmark with that little symbol after it on the sides of their planes: http://img.planespotters.net/photo/2...47-400_PlanespottersNet_261676.jpg
The only half decent image of it that I could find on the net of it is CA Cargo, but it's the same logo: http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/logo/china-airlines-cargo?original=1

The flower was added to the logo later to match their tails. AA could do that just as easily if they wanted, creating a "double logo" like some brands (including CA) have in most of their graphics.

Quoting infinit (Reply 114):
Technology, materials etc can change but style shouldn't. The American livery circa 1967 is stylish and timeless.

Spoken like a man on his way to work in his three piece suit and fedora.

We all love "Mad Men" but there are good reasons why styles change over time. We're not all still wearing pomade or driving on whitewall tires either. Nor are we wearing powdered wigs and knickers, if you want to go back a little further.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 128):
Except for the fact that Alaska, Frontier and Mexicana all had their logos on the tail?

Alaska's logo is not the eskimo - look up the history of their livery sometime. That wasn't even their only tail design, just the most popular. Alaska's logo is simply this: http://resource.alaskaair.com/conten.../~/media/images/logos/asqx-hd.ashx

Similarly, you really think a photo of a pelican is Frontier's logo? http://www.planebuzz.com/starboard_pelican_2.jpg

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: tothestars
Posted 2013-01-18 13:08:40 and read 7749 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 231):
We have a difference of opinion here as well. The last TWA livery couldn't decide what it wanted to be. It has a painted belly, it has a cheat line, it has the globe, and it has the TWA letter logo. The result is a pastiche.

So planes with painted belly's cant have cheat lines? Is this some type of major aircraft livery faux pas? TWA's last livery had a globe on the side which was in the exact same gold color as the iconic double globe logo from the 60's which also contained the red TWA letter logo.
The colors were regal, and the design matched the branding going on at ticket counters, gates, and clubs, napkins etc. The employees loved it and so did the public. You are definalty in the minority (again) with your opinion of that livery.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-01-18 13:27:04 and read 7560 times.

I now find myself hoping that if US and AA merge, the US folks get AA to accept this as the livery:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00012676.jpg

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2013-01-18 13:40:19 and read 7342 times.

Allow me to qualify my post by saying that I am a C-level marketing executive in a field outside of the airline industry. I do have plenty of experience with branding and design, and corporate communications, as well as corporate strategy.

My impressions as of right now are that the designers of the new branding did a very nice job updating the design and creating the flight symbol. They did mostly an admirable job implementing the brand in the livery.

They did make one HUGE strategic error though, IMO, and AA management and the board must have gone along with it.

Namely the tail design.

The problem with the tail design (forget that many seem to find it ugly) is that it is too literal an adaption of the US Flag / Star Spangled Banner (SSB). While that may play well here at home in the US, it is worth noting that in most of the rest of the developed world, such a brazen display of patriotism is considered crass. It is also worth noting that the US has a less than favorable image in large swaths of the underdeveloped world, and by hitching its proverbial wagon to the SSB, AA will be subject to the fluctuations in the image of the US to a greater degree than its competitors UA and DL.

I am not coming at this purely from a "cultural sensitivity" point of view, but from a revenue POV. AA management, the board, and the agency should have created a brand and livery that allows AA to generate the most revenue possible. While I think they may have succeeded with the brand, I don't think they did with the livery.

Imagine AA flying into the middle east with the new tail design. I believe there may very well be a tangible revenue impact as a result of this livery in that region and others.

None of the other flag carriers I am aware of sport the national flag of their home country as prominently as AA. Certainly not BA or even AF. And those are countries who have a less controversial standing in the world than the US.

Also, the new livery will make it more likely to be targeted for future terrorism attempts IMO.

All in all, it would have served AA better to create a less literal adaptation of the US flag on the tail for the strategic purpose of greater revenue potential. The fact that AA management, board, and agency missed something as basic as this is disconcerting.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: BlueShamu330s
Posted 2013-01-18 13:41:55 and read 7362 times.

My first rection was "wooooah, that's radical."

I must admit, my initial dislike was more to do with the fact I was used to the old livery; it was an AA comfort blanket.

Now I've seen more renderings, especially the 77W in a turn, I think it's absolute genius.

I showed just the tail to some colleagues, and every single response was "American."
Now, to be fair, they were meaning American in the generic way and didn't immediately say "American Airlines," but surely that means the livery works if it's recognisable as American?

This livery will be recognised everywhere worldwide as American.

The fact that so many American contributors to this forum regard it as "trashy" maybe reflects a dichotomy between Americans' view of what is American and what non-American folk regard as typically American.   

I'll declare my hand as a fan of this new livery. Can't wait to see a row of tails.

Rgds

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: xkorpyoh
Posted 2013-01-18 13:42:48 and read 7302 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 237):
I now find myself hoping that if US and AA merge, the US folks get AA to accept this as the livery:

I don't love the US livery, but I don't hate it. I just think it is boring and conservative, BUT, I do prefer it over the horror AA came up with.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 13:48:03 and read 7210 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 238):

Then what about EK, BA, AF, SU, etc? What about DY putting local celebs on the tails of their ac? I think AAs livery is on par with these in terms of expressing patriotism.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 237):

Talk about a bland, uninspiring livery.


[Edited 2013-01-18 13:54:43]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2013-01-18 13:53:18 and read 7180 times.

Any word on when we will see the American Eagle version?

-m

  

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2013-01-18 13:54:48 and read 7130 times.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 241):
Then what about EK, BA, AF, SU, etc? What about DY putting local celebs on the tails of their ac? I think AAs livery is on par with these in terms of being expressing patriotism.

EK, BA, AF all have less literal (re-read my prior post) interpretations on their tail and their countries are involved in less conflicts around the world. That makes a huge difference.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-18 13:54:52 and read 7123 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 238):
The problem with the tail design (forget that many seem to find it ugly) is that it is too literal an adaption of the US Flag / Star Spangled Banner (SSB). While that may play well here at home in the US, it is worth noting that in most of the rest of the developed world, such a brazen display of patriotism is considered crass. It is also worth noting that the US has a less than favorable image in large swaths of the underdeveloped world, and by hitching its proverbial wagon to the SSB, AA will be subject to the fluctuations in the image of the US to a greater degree than its competitors UA and DL.

I am not coming at this purely from a "cultural sensitivity" point of view, but from a revenue POV. AA management, the board, and the agency should have created a brand and livery that allows AA to generate the most revenue possible. While I think they may have succeeded with the brand, I don't think they did with the livery.



Isn't that the purpose of the logo in the first place? It is so you can easily recognize the brand. The airline is called AMERICAN Airlines.......The flag on the tail is representative of American Airlines in the same manner Delta Air Lines has a delta symbol on their tail.

If you are afraid of using the American flag to represent the brand name, then might as well just change the name of the company. The design of the tail did exactly what it was intended to do which is to identify the airline as an American Airline. AA was not trying to hide the fact that their name is American Airlines.

Also, as a side note, many people in the third world nations that you speak of do not like American politics. Very different than not liking America.

[Edited 2013-01-18 14:03:33]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: ei737ng
Posted 2013-01-18 13:57:07 and read 7084 times.

I personally prefer the old livery, the old bare metal was a lot classier

[Edited 2013-01-18 14:07:59]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: 757gb
Posted 2013-01-18 13:58:27 and read 7051 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 237):
I now find myself hoping that if US and AA merge, the US folks get AA to accept this as the livery:


I like it, but I think a livery like that will be talked about some, liked by some, disliked by others, but the discussion won't last long and soon it will be just another livery, and pretty soon people will have to take the time to look at it to figure out what airline the airplane belongs to (not referring to A.nutters here).

I insist with the fact that by doing things this way people are saying "wow, AA is really changing..." My point is that they could not have achieved a stronger impact with a more conventional livery. And AA will remain unique and easy to recognize.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2013-01-18 14:02:54 and read 7016 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 243):

Well it's a shame you feel like you have to hide your patriotism because of foreign policies.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-18 14:08:37 and read 6901 times.

I will miss the "AA" and the eagle (now reduced to the beak), both of which have been part of AA's livery since the 1930s.

I also don't like liveries where the tail design angles down over the rear fuselage. It destroys the sleek lines of the aircraft.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: martinrpo1
Posted 2013-01-18 14:11:56 and read 6866 times.

Summary:

Change is difficult. The new livery is something that ANY of us was expecting. But from a marketing point of view, it was absolutely genius:

- It shows evolution and modernization.
- It kept essential aspects of the previous American (colors, etc).
- It got everybody talking, even foreign press.
- The livery goes in accordance with their main purpose: to become the flag carrier of America!

Th livery and branding are VERY well thought and designed. It is radical, and that is why people are complaining, but I am sure most of you will end up loving it. American is doing an excellent reinventing themselves.

Compare this rebranding to other ones released relatively recently (AF, AY, UA, LX, TK, JL, QF, etc). Those didn't take risks, they didn't get people talking, and they didn't refelct any intention of change and imagination.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: FoxBravo
Posted 2013-01-18 14:15:46 and read 6865 times.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 242):
Any word on when we will see the American Eagle version?

Take a look: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USA...a5e3c69f5da0197e57e2bd3dd3fdfcd35f

I think it looks great (in general, but especially on the CRJ).

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2013-01-18 14:19:33 and read 6807 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 244):
Isn't that the purpose of the logo in the first place? It is so you can easily recognize the brand. The airline is called AMERICAN Airlines.......The flag on the tail is representative of American Airlines in the same manner Delta Air Lines has a delta symbol on their tail.

If you are afraid of using the American flag to represent the brand name, then might as well just change the name of the company. The design of the tail did exactly what it was intended to do which is to identify the airline as an American Airline. AA was not trying to hide the fact that their name is American Airlines.

Also, as a side note, many people in the third world nations that you speak of do not like American politics. Very different than not liking America.
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 247):
Well it's a shame you feel like you have to hide your patriotism because of foreign policies.

   I don't think it would have been a problem to use an abstract of the US flag...I think it is the literal nature of the flag that is the problem. No need to hide patriotism, but a little moderation would not have hurt.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-18 14:26:34 and read 6650 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 250):

Thank you for the clarification. I must have misunderstood you when you said.......

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 237):
The problem with the tail design (forget that many seem to find it ugly) is that it is too literal an adaption of the US Flag / Star Spangled Banner (SSB). While that may play well here at home in the US, it is worth noting that in most of the rest of the developed world, such a brazen display of patriotism is considered crass. It is also worth noting that the US has a less than favorable image in large swaths of the underdeveloped world, and by hitching its proverbial wagon to the SSB, AA will be subject to the fluctuations in the image of the US to a greater degree than its competitors UA and DL.


[Edited 2013-01-18 14:31:39]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: B377
Posted 2013-01-18 14:28:32 and read 6649 times.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 242):
Any word on when we will see the American Eagle version?

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: AA94
Posted 2013-01-18 14:32:43 and read 6603 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 236):
I now find myself hoping that if US and AA merge, the US folks get AA to accept this as the livery:

Sorry, but this is hideous. The definition of bland.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 237):
All in all, it would have served AA better to create a less literal adaptation of the US flag on the tail for the strategic purpose of greater revenue potential. The fact that AA management, board, and agency missed something as basic as this is disconcerting.

I agree with you on a lot of things, aaexecplat, but I don't agree with you on this. Why don't we just combine British Airways, Air France, American, South African, Singapore, Air Canada, and Japan Airlines to create a new mega airline known as "Moderate Inoffensive Politically Correct Airlines." That way, no one's put off by anyone else's patriotism!

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 248):
Change is difficult.

  

This.

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: FlyboyOz
Posted 2013-01-18 14:33:53 and read 6581 times.

See part 4 as it's too long

[Edited 2013-01-18 14:51:36]

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-01-18 14:39:17 and read 6508 times.

This thread is getting quite lengthy so please continue the discussion here:

Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4 (by iowaman Jan 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/17 - Part 3
Username: goldenargosy
Posted 2013-01-18 15:21:45 and read 5965 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 243):
The design of the tail did exactly what it was intended to do which is to identify the airline as an American Airline. AA was not trying to hide the fact that their name is American Airlines.

Couldn't agree more. I personally love the fact that in this new design the American Flag totally covers the back end of the plane. The last thing I want as an American flying in an American Airline is to hide any fact that I'm not proud of my country and my flag. It makes me very happy that they aren't shying away from patriotism.

Even if there wasn't a single precedent of any airline, anywhere putting their country's flag on the tail of their planes, then really, who cares? Get real. I prefer trailblazers and following through in what you believe in. Congratulations American for flying the flag all over the world and not going all politically correct to please an elitist mentality. For that you get all the credit for a great new livery.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/