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Topic: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-21 01:31:47 and read 4275 times.

According to the online booking system of Air China, they will start to serve 3xweekly CTU-FRA from May 19th. CTU is the second largest hub for Air China and the busiest airport in West China.

FRA will be the 3rd EU destination of Chengdu. Now KLM serves CTU-AMS and BA plans to start CTU-LHR from September. Besides, EY now serves CTU-AUH and QR will start to serve CTU-DOH on March. It seems that the competition of serving West China to Europe becomes white hot now!

CA431 CTU-FRA 0130 0610 330 257
CA432 FRA-CTU 1415 0610+1 330 257







[Edited 2013-01-21 02:10:51]

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: mdavies06
Posted 2013-01-21 02:45:32 and read 4066 times.

This is a big step forward for Chinese aviation and Western China. The first Euro airlink by a Chinese carrier west of PEK, PVG and CAN (except URC). I hope it works out for them. This is definitely a bold move to share the flow of European traffics. I bet EY and QR will be the most unhappy with this move as they are hoping to benefit from this untapped market. Geographically speaking Middle East is actually a long detour for Western China - EU so if enough carriers serve this market nonstop the prices of one stop will get so low it will become non profitable. Obviously I am talking about a few years from now.

I wonder if CA will try CKG-FRA also one day. I bet they will.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-01-21 02:45:57 and read 4066 times.

In addition to these passenger servcies, please remember that CA already operates 3x/weekly B744F services on the route PVG-CTU-AMS-TSN-PVG.

This is in addition to other freighter services from CTU to the EU:
- AMS with Airbridge Cargo B744F

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-21 03:21:34 and read 3937 times.

Great news for Chengdu. Seems like CTU is emerging as the leading international gateway for western China (a title that Xian and Chongqing seem to be also vying for).

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: acedriver
Posted 2013-01-21 04:17:10 and read 3786 times.

Interesting stuff, Chengdu really seems to be developing itself into the Western international hub of China. I really do look forward to seeing how this will affect intl traffic in CAN and PVG.
Just wondering, will LH code share this flight?

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-01-21 04:19:48 and read 3774 times.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 1):
. I bet EY and QR will be the most unhappy with this move as they are hoping to benefit from this untapped market.

I doubt. I think KL will be most unhappy as they had a monopoly between Europe and Chengdu and suddenly see both BA and CA tap into their market. Don't know the schedules, but for QR and to a lesser extent EY) CTU - Africa connections would be an interesting market.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: bogoss
Posted 2013-01-21 05:00:00 and read 3644 times.

Chengdu is on fire!
I agree KL will be the one that is going to worry, first BA joining to share the UK market(largest from CTU), now CA to the heart of Europe...
Also a real challenge for Chengdu, with 2 ME airlines and 3 direct European routes, I wonder if all of them can last...

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 1):
I wonder if CA will try CKG-FRA also one day. I bet they will.

CKG for CA is far less important than what CTU means to it, that's decided already by China Southwest when it was still around, after the merger CTU has become the 2nd biggest hub of CA, yet it still took CTU a decade for this day to come as CA always has PEK as priority for long hauls then PVG for some fun. And CKG in this case is poorly developed by CA, even in East Asia there's only 1 or 2 or 3 destinations I am not so sure, so unless CA is taking a strategic move, I don't see that coming soon, say, in 5 or 8 years...

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-21 16:37:16 and read 3083 times.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 1):
I wonder if CA will try CKG-FRA also one day. I bet they will.

CTU is a large hub for CA, they operate some 100+ departures every day while CKG only has 40+ departures. So CTU provides more connections. And actually CKG is only 1:30 away by high speed train.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 2):
In addition to these passenger servcies, please remember that CA already operates 3x/weekly B744F services on the route PVG-CTU-AMS-TSN-PVG.

CTU is a rising center for high tech manufacturing. The cargo market in CTU still has a big market potential.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-01-21 17:47:59 and read 2998 times.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 7):
CTU is a large hub for CA, they operate some 100+ departures every day while CKG only has 40+ departures. So CTU provides more connections.

I guess that is a major reason for this CA flight. Decongest PEK, and transit instead at CTU. I wonder if CTU could become a "secondary" international hub for CA, like MUC is for LH.

Do you have your updated chart with Europe-China destinations and frequencies?... I think I have seen one from you.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-01-21 18:30:46 and read 2930 times.

Quoting bogoss (Reply 6):
Also a real challenge for Chengdu, with 2 ME airlines and 3 direct European routes, I wonder if all of them can last...

But certainly not a challenge for the residents of the Chengdu area, who will see fares to Europe drop significantly with all the new competition!

How closely does CA cooperate with LH?

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-21 20:41:59 and read 2839 times.

Three of CA's South Asian routes have also gone to Chengdu these are Bangalore, Bombay, latest being Karachi whih has lost its Beijing link, whata bout Kathmandu and Delhi?

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-22 05:30:05 and read 2593 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 8):
Do you have your updated chart with Europe-China destinations and frequencies?... I think I have seen one from you.

It's tons of work to do  . Basically the 1st-tier cities (PEK,PVG,CAN) didn't see a lot of changes. But the link to the 2nd-tier is a new trend. Now these 2nd-tier cities have links to the Europe:

Chengdu: LHR, AMS, FRA
Chongqing: HEL
Xian: HEL
Nanjing: FRA
Shenyang: FRA
Qingdao: FRA
Hangzhou: AMS
Xiamen: AMS

Quoting 777way (Reply 10):
Three of CA's South Asian routes have also gone to Chengdu these are Bangalore, Bombay, latest being Karachi whih has lost its Beijing link, whata bout Kathmandu and Delhi?

CA is still doing CTU-KTM.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-23 09:24:05 and read 2239 times.

So only DEL is from PEK all the rest now CTU, is KTM-Lhasa over?

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-23 17:25:56 and read 2058 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 12):
So only DEL is from PEK all the rest now CTU, is KTM-Lhasa over?

For Delhi, CA is only operating non-stop from Beijing now. But AI and MU operate PVG-DEL, CZ also operates CAN-DEL. Besides, ET has fifth freedom on HGH-DEL!

And I checked the timetable for CA, the CTU-KHI is still 2xweekly. For the KTM route, it's a little bit complicated. CA has 2xweekly non-stop from CTU and 3xweekly from CTU via Lhasa.

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: Fuling
Posted 2013-01-24 02:19:24 and read 1900 times.

DolphinAir747 has asked, will LH code share? But I wonder if LH may eventually fill the gap on the days CA doesn't operate CA431/CA432?

Topic: RE: CA To Start Chengdu's 3rd EU Destination:FRA!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2013-01-24 04:15:47 and read 1790 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 9):
How closely does CA cooperate with LH?
Quoting Fuling (Reply 14):
DolphinAir747 has asked, will LH code share? But I wonder if LH may eventually fill the gap on the days CA doesn't operate CA431/CA432?

According to the cooperation scheme of LH and CA, they will definitely code share on this route. They will also code share on some connection routes from CTU.

Personally, I really doubt whether LH will step into this market in the near future. Although LH is very aggressive in developing the 2nd tier markets in China, we can see that the competition on CTU will be fierce next year. But who knows, if CA can really get a good performance , why doesn't LH join the party  


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