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Topic: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: g500
Posted 2013-01-25 08:17:49 and read 14573 times.

I know their time is very valuable, and they need to be available, do they fly on their airlines and get delayed like the rest of us or do they charter business-jets?

I'm sure for personal reasons they can probably afford to go private

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: nwcoflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 08:20:56 and read 14604 times.

Our CEO (Parker) is frequently seen flying around for both business and leisure. He has been on a couple of my flights. Both times he was in Y, and once with his family. I am sure he gets upgraded more than the average passenger- but in both cases I have seen him just a regular Y seat.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: threeifbyair
Posted 2013-01-25 08:36:02 and read 14478 times.

I remember people posting about seeing Richard Anderson on DL flights. My dad saw Bill Ayer (then the CEO of AS) on an AS flight several years ago, flying coach. My dad only realized who it was after the FAs started chatting with him.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: seatback
Posted 2013-01-25 08:50:21 and read 14356 times.

Can they fly priority on other airlines? I'm sure there's some gentleman's agreement.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2013-01-25 08:53:58 and read 14335 times.

The management team at an airline will be treated like the management team at any other business.

Their time is valuable, and they will take whatever airline gets them to their destination the fastest. I believe Gary Kelly from WN has been seen flying AA out of DFW many time. Business is business.

I'm sure the McDonald's CEO eats at Burger King from time to time. On this website there is this huge fascination with brands and companies, that fascination and insane fanboyism just doesn't exist in the real world, because business is business.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: C767P
Posted 2013-01-25 08:56:52 and read 14293 times.

If a CEO can’t fly on the airline they run, they have no business running the airline! They need to be a passenger and see what it’s like. If they don’t like it, why would anyone else?

Rumor has it the reason why O’Hare is getting jetways to remove all hardstands on the F Concourse is because Smisek got stuck out on the ramp in the middle of winter and disliked it so much there are now jetways there.

In the 70s Eddie Carlson at UA would work the flight once on board to talk to employees!

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2013-01-25 08:58:52 and read 14262 times.

Quoting C767P (Reply 5):
If a CEO can’t fly on the airline they run, they have no business running the airline! They need to be a passenger and see what it’s like. If they don’t like it, why would anyone else?

Because I work for a specific airline, that means I can't buy a ticket on a competitor, to save myself time and add convenience?

I also wait tables on the side for spending cash, does that mean I cannot eat at any other restaurant that competes with the restaurant I work at?

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: PacNWJet
Posted 2013-01-25 08:59:51 and read 14265 times.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
do they fly on their airlines and get delayed like the rest of us

Back in the late 1980s I was on a Hawaiian Air DC-8 flight from Honolulu to Apia, Western Samoa with a stop in Pago Pago, American Samoa. The president of Hawaiian happened to be on the flight in First Class. The plane suffered mechanical problems for several hours in Pago Pago and the president of Hawaiian was delayed along with the rest of us. He stayed on board in First while the rest of the passengers were ushered into the terminal to wait for the plane to be fixed. When we re-boarded quite a few hours later the Hawaiian president, still sitting on board, looked none too pleased. By the way, any passenger who happened to read the in-flight magazine would have noticed the company president was on board as his face was included in the president's message at the front of the magazine.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2013-01-25 09:03:40 and read 14224 times.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
I'm sure the McDonald's CEO eats at Burger King from time to time. On this website there is this huge fascination with brands and companies, that ... just doesn't exist in the real world, because business is business.

Exactly. Businessmen will always patronize other establishments and companies within their industry. Sometimes, it's convenience. Sometimes, it's sizing up the competition.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-25 09:04:41 and read 14208 times.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 2):
I remember people posting about seeing Richard Anderson on DL flights

He also uses Delta Private Jets as well.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2013-01-25 09:21:52 and read 14102 times.

Quoting C767P (Reply 5):
If a CEO can’t fly on the airline they run, they have no business running the airline!

So the CEO of Southwest is never allowed to go to Asia? No airline serves all routes, let along all routes at the time that the CEO might need to go there. At the end of the day, the mission is to get from A to B. If a CEO's own airline flies A to B and gets to B at the time they need to be there, I'm sure they'd default to using their own airline. But if they don't, which is going to happen pretty often in the real world, you take the flight that makes sense.

Quoting C767P (Reply 5):
They need to be a passenger and see what it’s like. If they don’t like it, why would anyone else?

There's a huge difference between *never* flying your own airline and *always* flying your own airline. Any good CEO will "sample" their own product. That doesn't mean they do it 100% of the time they need to travel.

The Boeing corporate jet fleet contains mostly non-Boeing aircraft...this isn't because the management hates Boeing, it's because most of their flying is economically ill suited to Boeing's products.

Tom.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2013-01-25 09:28:21 and read 14034 times.

John Leahy has been know to fly aboard a B-747 on his way to make a sale for the A-380 if it got him there in the time period he needed.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-01-25 09:29:22 and read 14019 times.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 2):
I'm sure the McDonald's CEO eats at Burger King from time to time.

agreed, but I have heard reference to any execuitve at Coke ever being sean with a Pepsi being in the dog house with Coke

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: tistpaa727
Posted 2013-01-25 09:41:13 and read 13932 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):
agreed, but I have heard reference to any execuitve at Coke ever being sean with a Pepsi being in the dog house with Coke

This is correct. A coworker of mine went to play soccer with a bunch of Coke employees and he showed up with Gatorade. They made him go get Powerade before playing. Now he shows up with Gatorade in a Powerade bottle. Coke is one example where you may sample the competition but you better damn well not do it in public!

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 09:52:09 and read 13866 times.

Executives usually get positive space tickets on any flight. Depending on the airline and executives will fly economy or first class. It has more to do with publicity and union relations to have the executives flying coach. In reality, their time and productivity is extremely important and positive space business class is acceptable. No company outside of aviation that I know of sends executives economy, so to keep the executives happy, you need to treat them well, although sometimes the voracious unions don’t see things the same way.

Most international airlines send management employees in business class for international trips. Some will do whatever class is available, but again when you are sending a manager or engineer to a different country to meet with Boeing or Airbus you want them fresh and alert on arrival, so it is best for the company to send them in business class rather than waste productivity having people adjust to jetlag that you get in economy.

Airlines always have 50% or more discounted travel on other airlines. Again time is often most important. If management at United needs to go somewhere that they don’t serve or the route can be cumbersome, they could end up on any airline that they have a reciprocal agreement with. Southwest has some of the best positive space and non-revenue travel agreements.

In the alliance and marketing world you see United, Delta and American as bitter enemies, but in reality the airlines at the management level work together really well. Flying on the competition is something they are willing to do. When it comes to management, contracts and engineering, the airlines work together a lot. You’ll see their engineers sitting side by side and working together at the various industry conferences. They’ll share maintenance successes and failures and talk about how to improve reliability. The reliability engineers all have each others’ phone numbers and they work together. Despite what brand loyalty and marketing people push, the airlines do all work together. They share spare parts to save money and they will all reaccommodate and help each other out when they can. While you’ll rarely see Delta handling United above the wing or vice versa, it is very common to have them sharing maintenance resources and contract to each other.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-01-25 10:00:21 and read 13813 times.

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 1):
I am sure he gets upgraded more than the average passenger- but in both cases I have seen him just a regular Y seat.

DL will upgrade any employee/family member/retiree/buddy pass if there's space available. CEO on down to most recently hired. Although, I've heard that RA regularly gives his F seat to uniformed service people. DL serves CDG-JFK, but I took AF because I wanted to add a 773 to my list of flown types. I also took what seemed to be the oldest 737 still flying (WN), SFO-SAN. The ZED program is a terrific benefit to OAL employees.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: g500
Posted 2013-01-25 10:00:24 and read 13812 times.

I was asking because my United flight got delayed 3 hours yesterday

Now I'm sure United's CEO wants to fly on his own airline and promote his airline. But I just don't see him waiting at some gate for 3 hours..

I'm sure United's employees would rather have him available and pay for a Challenger or Gulfstream to fly him to his destination

[Edited 2013-01-25 10:01:27]

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 10:22:40 and read 13684 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 16):
I was asking because my United flight got delayed 3 hours yesterday

Now I'm sure United's CEO wants to fly on his own airline and promote his airline. But I just don't see him waiting at some gate for 3 hours..

I'm sure United's employees would rather have him available and pay for a Challenger or Gulfstream to fly him to his destination

Nope, he waits with everyone. However he'll usually have a better idea of the scope of delay, so his rebooking options are much better.

It's good perspective to have him adequately fund preventative maintenance  

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-01-25 10:28:47 and read 13662 times.

Airline CEOs often fly on their competitors all the time. In fact, doing so is often PREFERRED by the executives so that they can actually work/sleep on the flight instead of have the entire trip turn into a gripe session from the employees. There are times when it is smart for the airline's CEO ot fly on his/her own airline, but for the most part, their travel is time and mission sensitive, so they fly on their competitors to be as discreet as possible.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2013-01-25 10:34:38 and read 13610 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
In the alliance and marketing world you see United, Delta and American as bitter enemies, but in reality the airlines at the management level work together really well. Flying on the competition is something they are willing to do. When it comes to management, contracts and engineering, the airlines work together a lot. You’ll see their engineers sitting side by side and working together at the various industry conferences. They’ll share maintenance successes and failures and talk about how to improve reliability. The reliability engineers all have each others’ phone numbers and they work together. Despite what brand loyalty and marketing people push, the airlines do all work together. They share spare parts to save money and they will all reaccommodate and help each other out when they can. While you’ll rarely see Delta handling United above the wing or vice versa, it is very common to have them sharing maintenance resources and contract to each other.

Even ramp agents, moreso at outstations, work with other airlines if they are in a pinch. Towbar gets broken and they need to borrow one, usually more than happy to let them borrow one. Or if we get a charter (or diversion) on an aircraft we are not very familiar with, but another airline is, we'll go ask for some pointers and advice. If their breakroom vending machine has Funyuns and ours doesn't, there's no problem at all to go to their ramp breakroom and buy a bag of Funyuns. People (and really most of it is this website) see this huge rivalry and hate towards other airlines....but on the front line we are all being screwed by the industry, the only difference is the company name. So front line agents usually are also pretty empathetic towards our fellow industry workers, even if they are a "rival" they are by no means an "enemy" at all.

(Unless you cut behind me when I am pushing an airplane back, or push an airplane out to block me in on purpose: you'll be on my hit list for a while)

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-25 10:38:32 and read 13590 times.

Quoting seatback (Reply 3):
Can they fly priority on other airlines? I'm sure there's some gentleman's agreement.

Yes, All officers of say AA can fly on any other US carrier. Foreign Im not sure. Herb use to fly AA quite often.

There were stories during the AA labor problems that their top mgmt was flying around on UA, unconfirmed though

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 10:47:08 and read 13526 times.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
(Unless you cut behind me when I am pushing an airplane back, or push an airplane out to block me in on purpose: you'll be on my hit list for a while)

Or if you work for Virgin America in SFO and want anything from the United guys. Maybe it’s less of a rivalry than it appears, but I’ve heard of UA pilots offloading VX deadheading pilots because they don’t like VX.

Of course I’ve also seen an AA pilot who was deadheading on a VX flight personally help unload all the extra oversized carry on items because the gate staff couldn’t handle them.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 18):
There are times when it is smart for the airline's CEO ot fly on his/her own airline, but for the most part, their travel is time and mission sensitive, so they fly on their competitors to be as discreet as possible.

I’m not sure what airline you are working for, but usually executives that I saw flying were traveling between the hubs for various meetings. On United, you’re going to see Smisek flying between SFO, ORD and IAH a lot. No need to fly the competition. I’m not sure what type of mission sensitive work is being done. Also, Smisek usually tries to relate to the employees and I’ve heard he’s quite gracious when you meet him. You’ll hear about the usual union steward berating, but it’s not that unusual to see the executives talking with the crews while flying.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-01-25 11:07:57 and read 13414 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
I’m not sure what airline you are working for, but usually executives that I saw flying were traveling between the hubs for various meetings. On United, you’re going to see Smisek flying between SFO, ORD and IAH a lot. No need to fly the competition. I’m not sure what type of mission sensitive work is being done. Also, Smisek usually tries to relate to the employees and I’ve heard he’s quite gracious when you meet him. You’ll hear about the usual union steward berating, but it’s not that unusual to see the executives talking with the crews while flying.

Smisek himself said he often flies other airlines when traveling for business.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-25 11:25:28 and read 13322 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 18):
There are times when it is smart for the airline's CEO ot fly on his/her own airline, but for the most part, their travel is time and mission sensitive, so they fly on their competitors to be as discreet as possible.

Right, because it's better to broadcast those "sensitive missions" to your competitors by flying on their airplanes...

[Edited 2013-01-25 11:46:22]

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: flymia
Posted 2013-01-25 11:32:56 and read 13287 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
Or if you work for Virgin America in SFO and want anything from the United guys. Maybe it’s less of a rivalry than it appears, but I’ve heard of UA pilots offloading VX deadheading pilots because they don’t like VX.

A lot of airlines have a way in deciding who gets a free seat and who does not. Own airline captains 1st, then FOs then FAs then managament and other employees then pilots from other airlines. Could have easily been off loaded because a UA pilot needed the ride instead. Even if he got there after the UA pilot gets the seat. Your story can be true. It certainly does happen like pilots from Go Jet or maybe Republic or some of those other regionals some pilots don't like.

As for the "rivarly" between airlines I think that is more of a marketing thing. Sure there are rivals and do business against eachother but at sometimes they do need to work together especially on the front lines at the airport in operations. If they did not help eachother out difficult situations would be even more difficult for everyone.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 11:36:16 and read 13968 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 22):

Smisek himself said he often flies other airlines when traveling for business.

Smisek says he flies other airlines to get a benchmark on the competition and see what their latest product is like, not to be discreet.

Quoting flymia (Reply 24):
A lot of airlines have a way in deciding who gets a free seat and who does not. Own airline captains 1st, then FOs then FAs then managament and other employees then pilots from other airlines. Could have easily been off loaded because a UA pilot needed the ride instead. Even if he got there after the UA pilot gets the seat. Your story can be true. It certainly does happen like pilots from Go Jet or maybe Republic or some of those other regionals some pilots don't like.

I certainly wasn't claiming that it is the norm. Usually people are perfectly willing to help another guy out. I was just commenting on one situation since I know it does happen.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: EaglePower83
Posted 2013-01-25 11:55:40 and read 13835 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):

Smisek says he flies other airlines to get a benchmark on the competition and see what their latest product is like, not to be discreet.

If that's the case, he must be delirious, because he thinks people are going to FLOCK back to UA for the 787........with 10 seats jammed in coach.   

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-01-25 12:03:12 and read 13896 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 23):
Right, because it's better to broadcast those "sensitive missions" to your competitors by flying on their airplanes...

Broadcasting what, exactly?

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-25 12:06:26 and read 13856 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 27):
Broadcasting what, exactly?

I don't know, you said it so you tell us. I read the comment pasted below as you implying these CEO's are on time sensitive and mission sensitive trips. If the trip is sensitive to the business, why fly on another carrier to broadcast to them where you're going? Makes industrial espionage pretty easy at that point, and doesn't lend itself to being discreet at all.


Quoting avek00 (Reply 18):
but for the most part, their travel is time and mission sensitive, so they fly on their competitors to be as discreet as possible.


[Edited 2013-01-25 12:07:44]

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: gigneil
Posted 2013-01-25 12:14:00 and read 13789 times.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 26):
If that's the case, he must be delirious, because he thinks people are going to FLOCK back to UA for the 787........with 10 seats jammed in coach.   

What?

NS

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: EaglePower83
Posted 2013-01-25 12:20:32 and read 13766 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):

There's been a whole discussion on FlyerTalk about the financial meeting.
Apparently SMI/J was asked about how he can be so certain the 787 will draw as many people as they think.
He simply answered, "it's terrific, they'll love it, it's the best plane ever!"
(Not direct quote of course)

It was kind of awkward, and I'll tell you, with a sCO interior, and 10 across seating (built for 9 OEM) I sure as heck won't be flocking to it.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: gigneil
Posted 2013-01-25 12:26:03 and read 13675 times.

It does not have 10 across seating.

NS

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-25 12:38:44 and read 13633 times.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 30):
It was kind of awkward, and I'll tell you, with a sCO interior, and 10 across seating (built for 9 OEM) I sure as heck won't be flocking to it.
Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 26):

If that's the case, he must be delirious, because he thinks people are going to FLOCK back to UA for the 787........with 10 seats jammed in coach.

Why do you keep saying it's 10 wide in coach? The airplane is 9 abreast in coach: http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...ight/aircraft/787/800/default.aspx

[Edited 2013-01-25 12:39:16]

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-01-25 13:00:06 and read 13260 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 22):
Smisek himself said he often flies other airlines when traveling for business.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
Smisek says he flies other airlines to get a benchmark on the competition and see what their latest product is like, not to be discreet.

I am sure Smisek also considers UAX and alliance codeshares such as US, LH, and NH as "other airlines." I do not think well known CEOs fly on other carriers very often. If they really want to see what the competition is doing, there are plenty of mid-level executives that nobody can easily identify who can take a look. Most major airlines are so large, the employees would have trouble identifying their own VP of personnel. If Smisek flew on AA or DL we would probably see photos and some snickering.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-01-25 13:03:08 and read 13283 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 10):
There's a huge difference between *never* flying your own airline and *always* flying your own airline. Any good CEO will "sample" their own product. That doesn't mean they do it 100% of the time they need to travel.

I remember once hearing a CEO of AA (Was it Arpey?) saying that all AA senior management is required to fly a certain number of miles/legs in Y every year on their own airline.

And, yes, not only should senior management fly their own management, but it is smart business to fly the competitor even when your own airline flies the route because it is smart business to look at what the competition is doing and consider whether that might work for your own company, whether you are an airline, a fast food chain, or a hotel chain.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 13:05:55 and read 13195 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 33):
I am sure Smisek also considers UAX and alliance codeshares such as US, LH, and NH as "other airlines." I do not think well known CEOs fly on other carriers very often. If they really want to see what the competition is doing, there are plenty of mid-level executives that nobody can easily identify who can take a look. Most major airlines are so large, the employees would have trouble identifying their own VP of personnel. If Smisek flew on AA or DL we would probably see photos and some snickering.

True. There have been a lot of Southwest executives flying back and forth to Atlanta from Dallas since the Airtran deal. With no good service on Airtran or Southwest between Dallas and Atlanta, they have been often seen on Delta and American. I remember a whole thread about the CEO of Southwest flying Delta back to Dallas.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2013-01-25 13:09:10 and read 13079 times.

Top Management usually have agreements with other airlines, and usually it's confirmed F/C, if available. When I was working at DCA in 1970 or so. we got "free passes on AF". The tickets were written F/y, meaning board in F/C if available first, then coach. This was in the days before upgrades and only full fare pagrs sat there. I used to go to Europe all the time, in F/C and use of the lounge at JFK. One time I was traveling to ABU Dhabi via Paris and the agent printed me out a green
BP(y/c). I asked in my poor but understandable French. Do you have F/C available? She knew I was American with another airline. She started to give me crap and I politely said please read the ticket. She did, grabbed my green pass and gave me a red one. F/C 747. Slamed it down and I said thank you and ran to the gate. I later found out AF employees were not boarded in F/C no matter what. She was pissed. I was a ticket agent with 2 years senority!!!!!!

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: gigneil
Posted 2013-01-25 13:12:06 and read 12981 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 33):
I do not think well known CEOs fly on other carriers very often.

Its just not true. They do it all the time.

Their time is extremely valuable. If I'm the CEO of US Airways, and I need to go to Asia, I'm going to be flying someone else to do it.

NS

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jet72uk
Posted 2013-01-25 13:17:35 and read 12931 times.

WW flys BA First. I don't think he eats the food though..........

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: ripcordd
Posted 2013-01-25 13:21:22 and read 12931 times.

I have seen Richard Branson flying AA ORD-LHR in F. Also the silver can lady(aka male FA) or something close to it was leaking when top managment was going to fly and even one time put the stand by list which showed an AA exec & family bumping paying F class passengers so they can go on a vacation to Hawaii. I sure hope they dont do this anymore

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: incitatus
Posted 2013-01-25 13:24:14 and read 12723 times.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
The management team at an airline will be treated like the management team at any other business.

Not quite sure about this, especially how it works with CEOs.

Many companies with revenues in the same league as airlines have travel policies for CEOs that are very different from the ones described in this thread. Some very large companies FORBID their CEOs from traveling on commercial flights, even for personal reasons. Other companies discourage airline travel. Some much smaller companies than major airlines are eager consumers of charted jets in the US.

This is one item airline CEOs have much inferior perks. The idea that the CEO of an airline sitting in domestic first class is a perk is just laughable.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2013-01-25 13:28:55 and read 12615 times.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 40):
Not quite sure about this, especially how it works with CEOs.

I'm not referring directly to travel policy, but policy on using a competitor's products.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2013-01-25 13:45:08 and read 12461 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
misek says he flies other airlines to get a benchmark on the competition and see what their latest product is like, not to be discreet.

Maybe he should fly SQ, EK, QR, Etihad, or TK and take notes...  

I've seen Smisek come off a flight from NRT before. And I was on a flight with Larry Kellner and his family. The Kellner's flew in coach. Don't know about Smisek.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: cmf
Posted 2013-01-25 14:22:06 and read 11863 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
No company outside of aviation that I know of sends executives economy

I know several. IKEA is probably the biggest.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
but again when you are sending a manager or engineer to a different country to meet with Boeing or Airbus you want them fresh and alert on arrival, so it is best for the company to send them in business class rather than waste productivity having people adjust to jetlag that you get in economy.

For a meeting like that I send them in the day before and they get a nights sleep at a hotel. Not because I worry about them being tired for the meeting, they better be able to handle that, but because I want options in case the flight is delayed. If they are going to internal meetings they typically will arrive in the morning and then go to the office, unless it is a large meeting with people flying in from many different locations.

I have never seen jetlag effects differ because of business instead of economy. Being able to sleep a couple of hours, yes. Not suffering jetlag, no.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: displane
Posted 2013-01-25 14:56:22 and read 11395 times.

Back in the late 90's/early 2000's, UA CEO's would fly company passes, positive space, priority. You can be rest assured that local management were there just to make everything went smoothly. They would also fly private jets or other airlines depending on the need.

One thing also to remember is that many CEO's are on a contract. So it also depends what is in their contract what privileges and compensation they are entitled too.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: C767P
Posted 2013-01-25 15:09:37 and read 11170 times.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
Because I work for a specific airline, that means I can't buy a ticket on a competitor, to save myself time and add convenience?

I also wait tables on the side for spending cash, does that mean I cannot eat at any other restaurant that competes with the restaurant I work at?
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 10):
There's a huge difference between *never* flying your own airline and *always* flying your own airline.

When I said a CEO needs to fly on the airline they work for I did not use the words “exclusive” or “always.”

I personally believe that if they NEVER fly on their own metal, how on earth are they supposed to relate to the customer and employees?

You guys read between the lines of what I was saying.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: type-rated
Posted 2013-01-25 15:11:19 and read 11115 times.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
Even ramp agents, moreso at outstations, work with other airlines if they are in a pinch. Towbar gets broken and they need to borrow one, usually more than happy to let them borrow one. Or if we get a charter (or diversion) on an aircraft we are not very familiar with, but another airline is, we'll go ask for some pointers and advice. If their breakroom vending machine has Funyuns and ours doesn't, there's no problem at all to go to their ramp breakroom and buy a bag of Funyuns. People (and really most of it is this website) see this huge rivalry and hate towards other airlines....but on the front line we are all being screwed by the industry, the only difference is the company name. So front line agents usually are also pretty empathetic towards our fellow industry workers, even if they are a "rival" they are by no means an "enemy" at all.

I thought all this friendliness went away with deregulation. The way you describe it, that's the way it used to be before deregulation.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-01-25 15:15:41 and read 11059 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 18):
Airline CEOs often fly on their competitors all the time. In fact, doing so is often PREFERRED by the executives so that they can actually work/sleep on the flight instead of have the entire trip turn into a gripe session from the employees.

Yes, they do.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 40):
Many companies with revenues in the same league as airlines have travel policies for CEOs that are very different from the ones described in this thread.

Okay, but we are talking about what airlines do. You're right -- CEO travel justifies many measures.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 36):
Top Management usually have agreements with other airlines, and usually it's confirmed F/C, if available.

Yes. Airline CEOs fly positive space in F. As Rose pointed out, to see them in coach is a pure union relations move. They belong in F if anybody ever did belong there.

All the airlines agree IIRC to provide other airline top management (top 10 people?) free unlimited positive space for business travel. It's just common courtesy. It is part of doing business.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-01-25 15:36:17 and read 10720 times.

Anymore, long haul coach is so uncomfortable, I can't imagine an airline seating its management teams in the back of the plane. I am self employed and not in the aviation industry so flying First or Business is usually an unattainable proposition. Still, whenever I can I upgrade simply because I am a wreck after flying 8-12 hours in coach.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Aircellist
Posted 2013-01-25 16:07:33 and read 10369 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
rather than waste productivity having people adjust to jetlag that you get in economy.

Can't believe there is less time difference between North America and Europe when travelling in Business than in Coach...   

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-01-25 16:14:17 and read 10260 times.

Bill Ayer from Alaska has flown of Frontier a few times. Business is business.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-01-25 16:47:00 and read 9889 times.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 10):
So the CEO of Southwest is never allowed to go to Asia? No airline serves all routes, let along all routes at the time that the CEO might need to go there. At the end of the day, the mission is to get from A to B. If a CEO's own airline flies A to B and gets to B at the time they need to be there, I'm sure they'd default to using their own airline. But if they don't, which is going to happen pretty often in the real world, you take the flight that makes sense.

Herb Kelleher used to fly AA when he had to go from DFW to New York to see his bankers and lawyers.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: FlyHossD
Posted 2013-01-25 16:49:47 and read 9808 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 16):
I'm sure United's employees would rather have him available and pay for a Challenger or Gulfstream to fly him to his destination

I've heard from a couple of different and normally reliable sources that some of the senior UCH management sometimes use NetJets.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 22):
Smisek himself said he often flies other airlines when traveling for business.

That seems prudent in some situations.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: SRQKEF
Posted 2013-01-25 16:51:16 and read 9867 times.

My dad was COO of Icelandair for many years and he and Bjorgolfur (CEO) always flew J on longhaul flights and some intra-Euro ones but mostly Y inside Europe though.

Regards,
Sveinn  

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2013-01-25 17:04:43 and read 9584 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
In the alliance and marketing

Even then, the rivalry isnt very "bitter". That is something that I have always found kind of cool in the airline industry. You rarely see airlines attacking each other directly with dirty ads. Its rare to see attacks or negative ads being aimed from one legacy carrier to another.

They may mention "the competition" or "our competitors" in some ads, but there are rarely direct attacks towards each other.

You never see AA saying in ads "Delta sucks, fly with us" or " United cant get you there, we can!".

Most ads seem to focus on themselves and what type of product and service they provide. More of "Fly with us, because we have free meals and inflight entertainment"

The airlines in the industry (at least in the US) seem to have mutual respect and although they do see each other as competitors, they don't get personal and keep it classy.

In reality, I think the airlines have better relationships with each other than people think. To me, it has always seemed that the airlines are more like friends that happen to be competitors.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-01-25 17:18:58 and read 9512 times.

Just a little piece of history. When Donald Nyrop was President and CEO of Northwest Airlines, he NEVER bumped any fare paying passenger. If the aircraft was full, he either flew using a flight attendant jump seat or a jump seat in the cockpit if there was one available. He did not like bumping off a fare paying passenger as he felt that they were paying his salary and that of Northwest Airlines employees.   

[Edited 2013-01-25 17:20:05]

[Edited 2013-01-25 17:21:05]

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-01-25 17:34:52 and read 9307 times.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 40):
This is one item airline CEOs have much inferior perks. The idea that the CEO of an airline sitting in domestic first class is a perk is just laughable.

Airline CEOs and senior executives are, as a class, significantly undercompensated relative to executive peers in other industries. This probably influences the sort of executive/managerial talent often seen at air carriers.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: captainstefan
Posted 2013-01-25 17:51:24 and read 9123 times.

Quoting tistpaa727 (Reply 13):
Coke is one example where you may sample the competition but you better damn well not do it in public!

Heaven forbid you show up to work with any stitch of blue on your clothes.... (speaking from experience).

Back on topic, it cracks me up to see everyone's take on this. 90% of people don't give a hoot about loyalty to their own brand when productivity (and their own bottomline) is at stake.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-01-25 17:53:20 and read 9119 times.

CO had 3 or 4 Sabreliner business jets for a few years in the 1960s/70s. I think they were mainly used for pilot training (note the fuselage marking near the door in the photo below), but they also carried the CEO and probably other executives at times. Note the photo caption re its passengers on that trip.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David O. Hill



The aircraft in the photo crashed at Montrose, Colorado (MTJ) 3 years later (April 13,1973), killing the 2 crew, when a thrust reverser deployed soon after takeoff. I believe it had just flown from LAX and dropped off their longtime CEO, Robert Six, and his wife, actress Audrey Meadows. Six had a large ranch near Montrose and spent a lot of time there.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730413-0

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-01-25 18:59:15 and read 8463 times.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 49):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 14):
rather than waste productivity having people adjust to jetlag that you get in economy.

Can't believe there is less time difference between North America and Europe when travelling in Business than in Coach...

Haha, the time difference is only part of what causes jet lag. The lack of sleep while flying increases the jet lag. 4-5 hours of decent sleep on a transatlantic flight makes attending business meetings and being alert so much easier than a restless night in economy. When it comes to longer flights to Asia the improved sleep and comfort helps people adjust so much faster. You can fly people in earlier and even without sleep, people can function. However many people do not like the amount of time on the road that an executive spends away from their family. Providing some additional comfort to make travel is important to the retention and performance of executives. As easy a.net thinks being a CEO is, the amount of hours and work justifies premium class treatment.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: delta2ual
Posted 2013-01-25 20:21:08 and read 7793 times.

I was working a DL Shuttle flight back in the 90's and I served Robert Crandall from AA. I remember it vividly because I personally thanked him for flying with us and he told me he always had great service on Delta. I'm sure he was just being nice, but I thought it was awesome anyway!

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Flighty
Posted 2013-01-25 22:58:01 and read 6712 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 56):
Airline CEOs and senior executives are, as a class, significantly undercompensated relative to executive peers in other industries. This probably influences the sort of executive/managerial talent often seen at air carriers.

Both points well taken. One is still tempted to take US airline executives over US bank executives. The irony is, you have to be pretty smart to run an airline.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: HELFAN
Posted 2013-01-26 02:51:33 and read 5473 times.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 54):
Even then, the rivalry isnt very "bitter". That is something that I have always found kind of cool in the airline industry. You rarely see airlines attacking each other directly with dirty ads. Its rare to see attacks or negative ads being aimed from one legacy carrier to another.

In Europe some of the LCC's have had a quite candid approach when it has come to speak out their views on their rivals.

Everybody remembers the stickers on FR planes shouting: "Arrivederci Alitalia" , "No way BA/AA" or "Nein zum Lufthansa Kerosinzuschlag"

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2013-01-26 06:05:56 and read 4069 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 16):
I'm sure United's employees would rather have him available and pay for a Challenger or Gulfstream to fly him to his destination

Unless he's going to sign a new contract that gives them a pay raise or more job security, I don't think they really care how long he waits for his flight.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
Even ramp agents, moreso at outstations, work with other airlines if they are in a pinch. Towbar gets broken and they need to borrow one, usually more than happy to let them borrow one. Or if we get a charter (or diversion) on an aircraft we are not very familiar with, but another airline is, we'll go ask for some pointers and advice. If their breakroom vending machine has Funyuns and ours doesn't, there's no problem at all to go to their ramp breakroom and buy a bag of Funyuns. People (and really most of it is this website) see this huge rivalry and hate towards other airlines....but on the front line we are all being screwed by the industry, the only difference is the company name.

If another airline is dropping at the bag carousel you need to use and you're in a time crunch, you go help them put their bags on the belt so you can get yours on it. If two planes from different airlines are pushing at the same time, but one knows the other has been severely delayed, you'll often see them let the delayed plane go first. Etc, etc, etc...

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
(Unless you cut behind me when I am pushing an airplane back, or push an airplane out to block me in on purpose: you'll be on my hit list for a while)

I often wonder why some push crews see the need to move their plane so far out that it unnecessarily blocks another gate...

Quoting type-rated (Reply 46):
I thought all this friendliness went away with deregulation. The way you describe it, that's the way it used to be before deregulation.

With certain exceptions, nowhere are competing airlines friendlier than at the "front lines" where they all have to face the same customers and weather issues.

We all want the carrier we work for, directly or indirectly, to do well, and better than the other guys... but when we get on that bus at the end of the day to get to our cars and go home, we're all people who've spent all day dealing with the same crap from the same sources.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 54):

In reality, I think the airlines have better relationships with each other than people think. To me, it has always seemed that the airlines are more like friends that happen to be competitors.

Pretty much. The only real exceptions to this that I know of were UA/CO in Denver and AA/Braniff in Dallas. And those examples were 2 decades ago. Pan Am and TWA had their issues, as well, but that was more political and managerial, from my understanding.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-01-26 06:20:45 and read 3887 times.

Quoting C767P (Reply 5):

If a CEO can’t fly on the airline they run, they have no business running the airline! They need to be a passenger and see what it’s like. If they don’t like it, why would anyone else?

What if that CEO is looking at buying an aircraft at a company located in a city or country where the airline doesn't fly? MOL for instance, who is part of an airline who doesn't fly into ORD to do business with Boeing? I am sure he has flown on other airlines and on his own more than a number of times. What about when they have to go and negotiate with new airports as well?

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: C767P
Posted 2013-01-26 07:02:10 and read 3482 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 64):
What if that CEO is looking at buying an aircraft at a company located in a city or country where the airline doesn't fly?

I am not sure why so many take what I said and think I meant that a CEO should not fly anyone else. The first few replies were suggesting that CEO’s times are too valuable to fly commercially or they should always go for the most convenient option. I think that they need to be flying their own airline at least some of the time.

It is good to fly the competition and sometimes is needed for various reasons.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-26 07:14:43 and read 3372 times.

My father was a member of management with TWA at the MCI overhaul base. After TWA pulled down all the westbounds and moved them to STL he flew Eastern on many trips. He went back and forth to Seattle a lot on Eastern in particular. He wasn't the CEO mind you but realistically it made no sense for TWA to force him to do MCI-STL-SEA for all those trips.

Topic: RE: How Do Airline CEOs Get Around For Business?
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2013-01-26 08:02:39 and read 2881 times.

Quoting C767P (Reply 65):
I am not sure why so many take what I said and think I meant that a CEO should not fly anyone else.

It was this:

Quoting C767P (Reply 5):
If a CEO can’t fly on the airline they run, they have no business running the airline! They need to be a passenger and see what it’s like.

There are lots of reasons a CEO might not be able to fly on the airline they run, most of them have nothing to do with his capability to run the airline. The confusion came off the word "can't". Based on later posts, it's become clear that what you intended was "If the CEO isn't willing to fly on their airline when they can..." but that wasn't the only way to read that post.

Tom.


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