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Topic: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-01-26 09:24:48 and read 10889 times.

If you are booking a codeshare flight at southwest.com heres the info...
http://www.southwest.com/flight/pop_fareCompare.html?airline=both

If you are booking a codeshare flight at airtran.com heres the info...
https://tickets.airtran.com/FareRules.aspx?fareRuleKeys=BLA0PNRO|B|FL|FO0L||en-US&class=B&paxTypes=ADT&c=2

Based on what I see, you are better off booking an AirTran flight on southwest.com because you get the free bags etc...

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-01-26 09:50:28 and read 10733 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Thread starter):
Based on what I see, you are better off booking an AirTran flight on southwest.com because you get the free bags etc...

That didn't take long for people to figure out. LOL

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-26 09:59:03 and read 10656 times.

Summary of what I've seen so far:

Southwest.com
Atlanta nostops to Fort Myers and Fort Lauderdale operated by AirTran are available on Southwest.com
Connections to those AirTran flights are available in ATL from Southwest' flights from Louisville and Nofolk.

AirTran.com
Southwest flights from Louisville and Norfolk to Atlanta are *only* available as the first leg of connecting flights from SDF and ORF to FLL or RSW. You can't buy just SDF-ATL on AirTran.

Third Party GDS sites
On Travelocity, you can buy SDF-FLL as AirTran, where SDF-ATL is operated by Southwest. This might be the first time you can buy any sort of Southwest flight on a third party GDS site?

Bag Fees
So far it appears if you book as Southwest your bags are free, but if you book as AirTran you pay $25 for bag 1 and $35 for bag 2. ATL-RSW identical flights priced out exactly the same, but AirTran said bag fees, and Soutwhest clearly said bags 1 and 2 are free.

Frequent Flyer
AirTran flights sold as Southwest on southwest.com show earning RR credit.
Because you can't buy just a WN flight alone on airtran.com (like SDF-ATL) I suspect if you book something like SDF-ATL-RSW and RSW-ATL-SDF you earn credit for a round trip flight, just as if it were all FL legs.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-01-26 10:01:40 and read 10640 times.

I think you are correct it would be beneficial for all AirTran customers to book their flights on Southwest's website. Looking at southwest.com you see there are basically no fees for almost any of their services while airtran.com still charges their customers in coach a change fee, a fee for the first and second bag and to my surprise that fee is going up to $25 dollars for the first bag and $35 dollars for the second bag on FEB 13, 2013. So I think if Airtran customers want to avoid these fees I think southwest.com is the way to go.

However I do have a question since these two companies are in the process of merging why are customers being still being charged a change fee if they book on airtran.com and why are bag baggage fees increasing on FEB 13 instead of being eliminated? How long will be before Southwest extends bags fly free and no change fees to customers who book on airtran.com, what is taking Southwest so long to change the policies at AirTran is it really that complicated?

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-01-26 10:08:14 and read 10566 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 4):
However I do have a question since these two companies are in the process of merging why are customers being still being charged a change fee if they book on airtran.com and why are bag baggage fees increasing on FEB 13 instead of being eliminated? How long will be before Southwest extends bags fly free and no change fees to customers who book on airtran.com, what is taking Southwest so long to change the policies at AirTran is it really that complicated?

Bags fly free is part of the WN brand, not FL brand. The goal in all this is to phase out the FL brand completely. There are other policies on FL (such as standy by) that I think are actually better than WN.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-01-26 10:09:04 and read 10566 times.

Something I find interesting, they chose the only airports that they dont share the same concourse or terminal. WN and FL are in different concourses at FLL and different terminals at RSW.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 4):
How long will be before Southwest extends bags fly free and no change fees to customers who book on airtran.com, what is taking Southwest so long to change the policies at AirTran is it really that complicated?

They can do it whenever they choose, there is no reason to. Why not get the revenue from AirTran while they can...

[Edited 2013-01-26 10:26:22]

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: gihanjaya380
Posted 2013-01-26 10:37:31 and read 10405 times.

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this sight but I have been a silent member for sometime. Great to be a part of this wonderful site.

About the codeshare, isn't Airtran part of Southwest Airlines? Why would they want a codeshare system when they are the same company.

Just my thought.

Gihan

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-01-26 10:44:04 and read 10357 times.

Quoting gihanjaya380 (Reply 7):
About the codeshare, isn't Airtran part of Southwest Airlines? Why would they want a codeshare system when they are the same company.

FL is a Southwest subsidiary, but the networks are not combined. This is the first look at it happening. The product offering (brand) of FL is also much different than WN so they can't simply just rebrand everything WN without completely overhauling the ex-FL aircraft and gate areas. This is all about connecting the networks to as the FL network gets smaller, those pax still have access to a larger network.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-26 10:48:24 and read 10327 times.

Even though Southwest has owned AirTran for quite some...the purchase was finalized about 20 months ago...they have operated as completely separate airlines with nearly no linkage. If your AirTran flight cancels, they won't put you on Southwest. If you want to fly a connection where your first flights is Southwest and your connecting flight is AirTran, they won't transfer the bag, etc. Just about the only think which is linked between the two airlines is that you can exchange frequent flyer credit from one program to the other.

Code sharing is finally changing that, at this piont just in this handful of markets. It seems destinted to be expanded to many more markets, perhaps systemwide. AirTran itself is being phased out, but that will take perhaps another year or two. In the mean time, having some actual integration between the airlines will help.

It will be interesting to see how well the integration goes. So far, because there was nearly zero integration, there wasn't much would could go wrong. Now they will have to execute.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-26 10:56:20 and read 10254 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Thread starter):
Based on what I see, you are better off booking an AirTran flight on southwest.com because you get the free bags etc...

Obviously intentional to 'pull' the FL customers over to Southwest's web site.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 1):
That didn't take long for people to figure out. LOL

I'm sure WN/FL set it up that way to have FL fade away gracefully.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3):
This might be the first time you can buy any sort of Southwest flight on a third party GDS site?

I don't know, but an interesting point... Could WN be testing the value of offering service on 3rd party sites?

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):
It seems destinted to be expanded to many more markets, perhaps systemwide.

The sooner the better. Why buy FL if it isn't to be integrated into the WN route map? I can see a steady phase in. WN needs to make more routes available, in particular PHX and LAS to open up more of the west to ATL.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-26 10:57:02 and read 10254 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 1):
That didn't take long for people to figure out. LOL

And southwest will get a taste of fee revenue...

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: L1011
Posted 2013-01-26 11:00:32 and read 10240 times.

I just tried to book an AirTran flight from RIC to MCO on the Southwest website, and I got a message saying that this flight is available for booking on Airtran.com. So how do you book an AirTran flight on Southwest.com?

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-01-26 11:02:46 and read 10208 times.

Quoting L1011 (Reply 12):
So how do you book an AirTran flight on Southwest.com?

Currently the codeshare is only available from SDF&ORF-FLL&RSW on both websites and on southwest.com ATL-RSW&FLL as well.

[Edited 2013-01-26 11:05:22]

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: unmlobo
Posted 2013-01-26 11:25:14 and read 10102 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 4):
I think you are correct it would be beneficial for all AirTran customers to book their flights on Southwest's website. Looking at southwest.com you see there are basically no fees for almost any of their services while airtran.com still charges their customers in coach a change fee, a fee for the first and second bag and to my surprise that fee is going up to $25 dollars for the first bag and $35 dollars for the second bag on FEB 13, 2013. So I think if Airtran customers want to avoid these fees I think southwest.com is the way to go.

For the vast majority of policies the policies of the marketing carrier will apply. So you are correct in that if AirTran Customers want to avoid bag fees they would need to purchase on southwest.com. However, there are still reasons for AirTran Customers to book on airtran.com, including the ability to earn A+ credit (as opposed to RR points), the ability to choose a seat assignment in advance (itineraries booked at southwest.com will have a seat auto-assigned at checkin) and AirTran's more flexible standby policies day of travel.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: etops1
Posted 2013-01-26 12:48:28 and read 9776 times.

It's about time . Don't ya think ?

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: Pu
Posted 2013-01-26 13:20:08 and read 9510 times.

I used to think WN was nearly faultless. Until they decided to buy AirTran. I think they could have saved the money they spent (and are spending) related to AirTran and instead invested a still lavish amount, say $200m, to upgrade failities at Fulton County Airport, Peachtree-DeKalb County Airport or Cobb County Airport to a level suitable for a medium level of commercial passenger services...7 gates or so. Or spend the money bribing policticians so they can serve Dobbins.

Atlanta needs a second commercial airport towards the north and this sticks to the original WN formula in many ways.



Pu

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-26 14:44:48 and read 8897 times.

Quoting Pu (Reply 16):

I agree with you on the first part. The emperor has, if not no clothes, a bikini. Second part I disagree. That was WN circa 1990, not today.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2013-01-26 14:49:16 and read 8858 times.

Looks like a very cautious roll-out that won't create a big problem if issues arise. That's a wise route if you ask me.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: Atlwest1
Posted 2013-01-26 14:50:55 and read 8846 times.

Atl doest need a second airport yet, also the airports you named will not be turned to commercial due to nimbys. Also swa's faults are glaringly showing because how far behind the curve tech wise they are ad well as some procedures and flying. The faults if any lie in the underestimation of the necessary technology and the difficulty of merging a carrier that was very different in just about everyway.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2013-01-26 14:56:00 and read 8820 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):
If you want to fly a connection where your first flights is Southwest and your connecting flight is AirTran, they won't transfer the bag, etc.

I assume this is changing with the codeshare being implemented, correct? It seems useless to fly ORF-ATL-FLL booked on Southwest, check a bag in, and then not have your bag transferred at ATL.

Also, any speculation on when more codeshare routes will be announced? I know Gary Kelly said that they hoped to have it fully implemented by April, but I wasn't sure if a more detailed schedule of implementation has or will come out.

Also, most of you probably know this, but for those who don't, it looks like the codeshare flight numbers for the FL flights that you book on southwest.com are the FL flight numbers prefixed by a 5.

[Edited 2013-01-26 15:01:45]

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-01-26 15:14:34 and read 8675 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 20):
I assume this is changing with the codeshare being implemented, correct? It seems useless to fly ORF-ATL-FLL booked on Southwest, check a bag in, and then not have your bag transferred at ATL.

If you are ticketed on a code-share ticket, your bag is checked all the way through.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 20):
Also, most of you probably know this, but for those who don't, it looks like the codeshare flight numbers for the FL flights that you book on southwest.com are the FL flight numbers prefixed by a 5.

Add 5000 to any FL flight number = WN code share flight number once it is loaded in the system

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 19):
Also swa's faults are glaringly showing because how far behind the curve tech wise they are ad well as some procedures and flying. The faults if any lie in the underestimation of the necessary technology and the difficulty of merging a carrier that was very different in just about everyway.

I don't think anyone denies that tech is an issue and that is why Amadeus is coming in. It also shows that the FL systems aren't capable of being scaled up or everyone would be switching over to those. My opinion is that AirTran had only one way to grow - west. Southwest knew this and made the move to stop them and also take over the AirTran network at the same time to enhance what it already had. This took out a competitor and also provided non-traditional markets for WN to try with those who had experience.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 18):
Looks like a very cautious roll-out that won't create a big problem if issues arise. That's a wise route if you ask me.

Absolutely. I'm glad it is going this way and not full scale roll out that could snowball things.

Quoting Pu (Reply 16):
I used to think WN was nearly faultless. Until they decided to buy AirTran. I think they could have saved the money they spent (and are spending) related to AirTran and instead invested a still lavish amount, say $200m, to upgrade failities at Fulton County Airport, Peachtree-DeKalb County Airport or Cobb County Airport to a level suitable for a medium level of commercial passenger services...7 gates or so. Or spend the money bribing policticians so they can serve Dobbins.

See my comment above. No one is without faults. The AirTran acquisition was needed. Others point out the NIMBY factor and really, why should WN put forth the expense with two hub carriers to go up against? It is better to take over one and go forward. Granted in DEN they went up against two, but F9 was definitely in a much weaker position than FL.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ADent
Posted 2013-01-26 17:48:11 and read 7787 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 2):
On Travelocity, you can buy SDF-FLL as AirTran, where SDF-ATL is operated by Southwest. This might be the first time you can buy any sort of Southwest flight on a third party GDS site?

First time publicly, maybe yes. First time, no - WN has been available for corporate travel on Travelicity for years.

Quoting gihanjaya380 (Reply 6):
About the codeshare, isn't Airtran part of Southwest Airlines? Why would they want a codeshare system when they are the same company.

The Southwest computer can't do real code shares or international ticketing. For some reason Southwest did not want AirTran's computer taking over ( there are stories of software versions and/or WN superiority issues).

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: peanuts
Posted 2013-01-27 01:17:25 and read 6216 times.

If this isn't a cluster merger I don't know what is...it will all end well for WN but c'mon already, what an odd and long winded integration process...

DL/NW, historically speaking, had to have been one of the, if not the smoothest merger ever for two huge carriers.

UA/CO: so so. I think Smisek thought at one point he could do it better than DL/NW. Not the case, for sure.

AA/US: cluster in the making...

[Edited 2013-01-27 01:18:34]

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-27 07:16:57 and read 5415 times.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 22):
If this isn't a cluster merger I don't know what is...it will all end well for WN but c'mon already, what an odd and long winded integration process...

Up to this point, it's been an excpetionally smooth event for Southwest customers. As for AirTran customers, it's been mostly status quo at a shrinking airline, but not necessarily ugly. But that is because there has been nearly no integration attempted. Some, with a charitable outlook, say that this is the deliberate go-slow plan of Southwest, and it has created the smoothest large acquisition in memory. Others, with a more caustic outlook, say this is playing out because of Southwest's antiquated technology and myoptic perspective, and that they are squandering AirTran's customer base but will still have their share of merger pain when they finally do integrate.

I think the true quality of the merger will play out over the next year or two, good or bad. Code sharing is a significant integration step, and there will be countless opportunities to create frustration among the customer base *if* policy decisions, technological limitations, or execution leave something to be desired.

Up to this point, it's like judging a musical by the overture. People have complained that the overture has been running unusually long, but almost certainly it will be overshadowed by what's to come, good or bad.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: sdoyon
Posted 2013-01-27 07:25:37 and read 5384 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 23):
Up to this point, it's like judging a musical by the overture. People have complained that the overture has been running unusually long, but almost certainly it will be overshadowed by what's to come, good or bad.

        

I am really excited to see how this plays out. It seems to me that the code-share roll out will be much like the period between acquisition and now: slow; and I don't have an issue with that. I'd rather have them take longer and have be almost flawless rather than have them dive in head first and have a myriad of issues to deal with.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-27 07:35:24 and read 5458 times.

The main issue I see with the super-slow rollout is that you run the risk of losing a lot of the capital you paid big bucks for in buying AirTran. AirTran is a shrinking, lame duck airline and its loyal customer base has been dreading the loss of their airline without seeing any of the benefits of Southwest, and more than a few have thrown in the towel and left. On the flip side, if you cram it together too fast you run the risk of alienation the customer base with incompetence. So...it's not an easy nut to crack.

In my opinion, the overwhelming stance of corporate America is that high levels of brass makes aggressive demands, the next layer of management are yes-people, and the strata below are frequently in a "make it so, consequenes be damned" position. And I think top brass is okay with this because they'd rather ask for foregiveness than for permission. I can't help but wonder how much of the unconventional timetable of WN+FL is due to an honestly different mindset in the decision-making hierarchy at Southwest, and how much is simply the result of technological handcuffs. You can find strong opinions both ways on that one!

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2013-01-27 10:51:21 and read 5014 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 25):
loyal customer base has been dreading the loss of their airline without seeing any of the benefits of Southwest

That assumes that FL had a loyal customer base which I don't think they actually did. Sure, there were a few die hards, but FL's bread and butter was leisure travelers and the occasional business traveler looking for a deal.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-01-27 16:35:47 and read 4798 times.

Just checked SDF-FLL on WN website, available for $130 each way. On the FL website same flights $240 each way.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-27 17:24:34 and read 4713 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 26):
That assumes that FL had a loyal customer base which I don't think they actually did. Sure, there were a few die hards, but FL's bread and butter was leisure travelers and the occasional business traveler looking for a deal.

I know there are a lot of people in MKE who'd disagree with you sharply on that, and likely in ATL as well. A solid portion of AirTran's network is leisure flying like CMH-FLL, but out of their hubs they serve a significant flow of business traffic. If they were really leisure only, they would not have kept business class. Over on some of the frequent flyer boards, the loss of business class is a key sore point with FL flyers.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: JONC777
Posted 2013-01-27 19:09:08 and read 4590 times.

Quoting Pu (Reply 15):

DL has blocked that in the past .. . that would have never worked out. . . plus buying FL got rid of competion that had a lower operating cost than WN's.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-01-27 21:31:02 and read 4413 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 2):
Third Party GDS sites
On Travelocity, you can buy SDF-FLL as AirTran, where SDF-ATL is operated by Southwest. This might be the first time you can buy any sort of Southwest flight on a third party GDS site?

I believe that the ATA codeshare flights several years ago were also bookable through the GDS sites. But before the rise of online travel sites like Travelocity, Expedia, etc., WN flights were bookable through the GDS's -- until the airline owners of those GDS's kicked WN off back in the early 1990's.

Quoting Pu (Reply 15):
I used to think WN was nearly faultless. Until they decided to buy AirTran. I think they could have saved the money they spent (and are spending) related to AirTran and instead invested a still lavish amount, say $200m, to upgrade failities at Fulton County Airport, Peachtree-DeKalb County Airport or Cobb County Airport to a level suitable for a medium level of commercial passenger services...7 gates or so. Or spend the money bribing policticians so they can serve Dobbins.

I'm fairly certain that WN had raised this idea in the past -- but it simply wasn't possible given NIMBYs in the vicinity of all those fields as well as the political influence wielded by one of the highest-profile corporations headquartered in the Atlanta area. Just look at the brouhaha in Houston when WN wanted to add an FIS station to HOU -- at an airport with hundreds of daily passenger flights. Or their unsuccessful attempt to move their SEA flights to BFI in 2005.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 28):
I know there are a lot of people in MKE who'd disagree with you sharply on that, and likely in ATL as well. A solid portion of AirTran's network is leisure flying like CMH-FLL, but out of their hubs they serve a significant flow of business traffic.

I'd argue that the slow pace/lack of integration between the networks has had the least impact in the hub cities like ATL & MKE, since non-stop flights on one carrier or the other have been maintained in the vast majority of markets. I suppose there might be some loss of elite benefits if one would have to split flying between the two carriers but lack of flights for business travelers wouldn't seem to be a key issue. Business travelers in the outstations would see a bigger impact due to the loss of connectivity at the FL hubs.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2013-01-28 07:44:23 and read 4101 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 28):
If they were really leisure only, they would not have kept business class.

I think they kept the business class to try and compete with DL, but I don't think it was a successful strategy. If you look at the yields FL was getting, they clearly weren't getting a lot of business travelers. And in my experience (which granted isn't statistically significant), FL's business class was never full and they were constantly hocking upgrades for cheap because no one was paying for it.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 28):
Over on some of the frequent flyer boards, the loss of business class is a key sore point with FL flyers.

If you look at those boards, it's the same ten people complaining about WN/FL dumping business class. I'm not sure that's a representative sample.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: knope2001
Posted 2013-01-28 19:34:09 and read 3770 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 30):
I'd argue that the slow pace/lack of integration between the networks has had the least impact in the hub cities like ATL & MKE, since non-stop flights on one carrier or the other have been maintained in the vast majority of markets. I suppose there might be some loss of elite benefits if one would have to split flying between the two carriers but lack of flights for business travelers wouldn't seem to be a key issue. Business travelers in the outstations would see a bigger impact due to the loss of connectivity at the FL hubs.

Interesting way of looking at it. I would guess that most spoke cities didn't have too many loyal business travelers, with the exception of a few big-fish-in-little-pond markets like CAK, ICT, BMI, etc. As for having flights on one airline or the other, although that's true, it assumes that those passengers are making the move to Southwest when they take over frequencies or entire markets. That's where I think the bleeding can happen.

From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I work for a Fortune 500 company with a fair amount of travel, and my MKE-based team were pretty loyal to YX/F9 and FL...about 50/50 in allegiance in the past copule of years, migrating to FL. When Southwest took over MSP and most of LGA, a few of them flew WN a time or two, and since then they have universally used Delta. I recently inherited management of a team in metro Atlanta, and they have a similar level of travel as my MKE group. Because of issues with their previous (non) manager, I have to oversee and approve their travel for the time being. (Maddening.) Their mantra is "Delta or AirTran, Delta or AirTran" When I mention Southwest, their response is "Delta".

Those are, of course, anecdotal accounts. Something less anecdoatal is how rough the first few months of Southwest on MKE-LGA has been.

Southwest took over two of five daily round trips on MKE-LGA from AirTran in mid August.

Aug/Sept/Oct 2011 AirTran MKE-LGA-MKE
854 flights
84.693 onboard passengers
105,623 seats
80.2% onboard load

Aug/Sept/Oct 2012 AirTran + Southwest MKE-LGA-MKE
870 flights
74,113 onboard passengers
109,101 seats
67.9% onboard load

Capacity was up 3.3% but onboard passengers were down nearly 12.5%

Frontier competed in the market in 2011, and Delta competed -- with significantly smaller planes -- in 2012.

Here's how loads for WN and FL comapred on MKE-LGA-MKE by month:

August
91.7% AirTran 3x/day
38.2% Southwest 2x/day
84.3% Delta 4x/day E175/CR7

September
82.4% AirTran 3x/day
33.2% Southwest, 2x/day
80.8% Delta 4x/day E175/CR7

October
80.3% AirTran 3x/day
52.2% Southwest 2x/day
81.4% Delta 4x/day E175/CR7

To be sure, some of Southwest's emptieness is due to fewer connecting feed opportunities in 2012 than AirTran had in 2011. It's not clear how much that is a factor. But during this period Southwest was already operating STL, DEN, LAX, LAS, PHX, MCI, and SEA as potential feed to/from some LaGuardia flights, so it's not like Southwest is 100% local traffic.

I'm sure as months go onward, Southwest's loads will improve on MKE-LGA. In part that's because the market is being cut from 5x to 4x in March, and in part because most of the rest of MKE conversion to Southwest in November, meaning more connections. But I think this suggests that AirTran passengers are not automatically becoming Southwest passengers.

Topic: RE: Southwest Launches Codeshare With AirTran
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-01-28 20:43:04 and read 3667 times.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 32):
Their mantra is "Delta or AirTran, Delta or AirTran" When I mention Southwest, their response is "Delta".

I don't doubt that if your team has a fair amount of travel and they're able to direct their travel to one carrier or the other within reason: both DL & FL offer complimentary upgrades to domestic first/business to their elite frequent flyer plan members. Southwest doesn't offer a business class and that's a product decision they have chosen to make.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 32):
I think this suggests that AirTran passengers are not automatically becoming Southwest passengers.

I agree with you there, but I don't think this is due to the lack of convenient travel options in the former FL hub cities; rather, for any number of other reasons -- like the lack of a business class, unfamiliarity with or dislike of the product, different pricing strategies, etc. -- WN won't pick up all of FL's former loyal customers.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 32):
Capacity was up 3.3% but onboard passengers were down nearly 12.5%

Fares were up by 25% year-over-year between 2011 and 2012 as FL/WN raised fares in response to F9 leaving the market. WN's average fare was higher than FL's which might partially explain why WN's planes were emptier (along with the lack of connecting feed you mention). But I agree, WN won't pick up all of the former FL customers like your colleagues. However, I don't think it's due to the lack of integration between the networks.


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