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Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: cx828
Posted 2013-01-28 01:57:41 and read 6061 times.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/a...thority-launch-study-fourth-runway

While the third is still under environmental assessment.

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: LXXLC
Posted 2013-01-28 02:30:44 and read 5945 times.

HKG with a 4th rwy?

I am still impressed that they are willing to build the 3rd rwy, where forecasts and studies show that the general growth is not such generous... But we never know what 2013 is going to be... Maybe an unexpected boom which hopefully will last more than 3 years  

After all, I am just wondering where they got the figure that the traffic volume will overpass the capacity in 2030 with the 3rd rwy already...

Though it is quite interesting for the airport authority to assess for the future development of HKG and greater region... I guess will see in the upcoming period what the report will announce  

cheers. LH

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-01-28 07:38:58 and read 5401 times.

Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
While the third is still under environmental assessment.

Environmental assessment? In China?

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: Captainmeeerkat
Posted 2013-01-28 07:50:10 and read 5372 times.

A Rumway?! Now that sounds like a recipe for disaster!  

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: warrensf
Posted 2013-01-28 11:55:26 and read 5090 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 2):

Hong Kong is a part of China in name only. The legal, social, political systems, environmental standards, etc., are completely distinct and separate. This is the agreement between Britain and China when Britain handed HK back to China in 1997. This "one-country, two-systems" arrangement, however, will expire in 2047. Hopefully, China's systems will be much improved by then. Since the Handover, HK people have become more vocal in what they expect of the government. There was a lot of pushback on the 3rd Runway. The green groups are challenging the government on the cost-benefit analysis, growth forecasts, environmental impact, the plight of the indigeneous pink dolphins, etc. The studies have just begun and will take 2 years complete. Construction won't start until 2015 at the earliest. If this were Mainland China, the 3rd Runway would probably be delivered by now. For much cheaper too, since the the proposal is to use the more expensive land reclamation method that reduces the disturbance on the contaminated mud pits that lies on the sea-bed under >40% of the proposed runway footprint.

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-01-28 13:54:48 and read 4912 times.

Quoting warrensf (Reply 4):
The legal, social, political systems, environmental standards, etc., are completely distinct and separate.

That is true on paper. In practice, Beijing's authority and leadership style is being subtly but increasingly felt throughout the city's affairs.

Still, the airport will need it, and by the time the project jumps through all the hoops and gets built, it will be direly needed.

At this rate, they'll fill up the bay with tarmac before that road bridge to Tuen Mun is built!

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-01-28 15:25:20 and read 4740 times.

Quoting warrensf (Reply 4):
There was a lot of pushback on the 3rd Runway. The green groups are challenging the government on the cost-benefit analysis, growth forecasts, environmental impact, the plight of the indigeneous pink dolphins, etc. The studies have just begun and will take 2 years complete. Construction won't start until 2015 at the earliest. If this were Mainland China, the 3rd Runway would probably be delivered by now. For much cheaper too, since the the proposal is to use the more expensive land reclamation method that reduces the disturbance on the contaminated mud pits that lies on the sea-bed under >40% of the proposed runway footprint.

Are they seeing if they can help the pink dolphins relocate?

Topic: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-28 20:57:48 and read 4109 times.

Quoting Captainmeeerkat (Reply 3):

A Rumway?! Now that sounds like a recipe for disaster!

I don't know... It sounds like quite a bit of fun. Perhaps they mean a chain of in airport bars.  
Quoting LXXLC (Reply 1):
HKG with a 4th rwy?

They will need it. Why not return to the days when airport capacity was built before it was over-due?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 5):
Still, the airport will need it, and by the time the project jumps through all the hoops and gets built, it will be direly needed.

   IMHO HKG has the chance of being the #1 airport in the world (assuming the new PEK, ICN expansion, and a few other projects are delayed long enough, that is).

However, the 4th runway is tricky due to going out to deeper water. I believe there is a sharp drop in the sea floor that must be avoided.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: LXXLC
Posted 2013-01-29 03:17:32 and read 2493 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
They will need it. Why not return to the days when airport capacity was built before it was over-due?

I believe in nowadays economy it is not anymore feasible to build sth, in this case new rwys, that should only be used for the next decades... So returning back to the old good days, in which I am not against, is somehow really optimistic...

Airport capacities is well known that it is a scarce resource, but it does not intend to mean 'We need a new rwy, yet.' Taking the Europe situation (LHR, FRA, MUC) are limited in their capacity but well managed to bypass the high demand by allocating the slots carefully. Well at least for the German airports... (LHR might be a bad example, as they really need a new rwy)

Nevertheless, if HKG can be managed that the slot allocation does not exceed the capacity, it might last for 5 more years before building a new rwy (hopefully in a better economy).

cheers. LH

[Edited 2013-01-29 03:19:52]

Topic: RE: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-01-29 04:38:32 and read 2354 times.

Quoting cx828 (Thread starter):
While the third is still under environmental assessment.

Hopefully there will be a positive decision about that runway soon. They will need it.

Quoting LXXLC (Reply 1):
HKG with a 4th rwy?

It is good to plan ahead, especially if a runway has to be build in the water, as is the case in Hong Kong.

Topic: RE: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-29 07:26:08 and read 2148 times.

Quoting LXXLC (Reply 8):
So returning back to the old good days, in which I am not against, is somehow really optimistic...

Except that many cities find economic growth constrained when runways are not built in time.

"Transportation is the cornerstone upon which a city builds wealth" is an old quote I was taught decades ago. But there have been exceptions: DEN, MCO, CLT, SIN, and to a lesser extent (recently) DXB and DOH come to mind. Someone somewhere will build surplus airport capacity and when its needed it shall fill up.

Quoting LXXLC (Reply 8):
Taking the Europe situation (LHR, FRA, MUC) are limited in their capacity but well managed to bypass the high demand by allocating the slots carefully.

I strongly disagree. I hypothesize that the whole reason the mid-east hubs grew so quickly as they 'made up' the lack of capacity at the European hubs. LHR is shrinking in transit passengers. Where are they going? I believe CLT, PHL, IAD, DXB, and DOH. By not expanding in a timely manner, Europe's hubs have fallen behind in acquiring new destinations.

Seriously, how will the congested hubs 'open up' to the new inland Chinese cities and Indonesia as they continue their incredibly rapid expansion?

I wait for the NEO and MAX to provide better connection opportunities thanks to their tremendous range improvement. There will be no 'fortress Europe' protected from globalization by impacted hubs. Air travel is in fact predicted to double in faster than Secondary cities will be happy to have connections with frequency and that will just be how the trend goes. Japan tried that and now is bypassed by ICN, NRT, PEK, CAN, HKG, and PVG. I notice it by the number of coworkers tranferring at CLT, IAD, or PHL to Europe. The fragmentation and frequency genie shall not be put back in the bottle.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Hong Kong To Launch Study Into 4th Runway
Username: LXXLC
Posted 2013-01-29 09:19:54 and read 2016 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
I strongly disagree. I hypothesize that the whole reason the mid-east hubs grew so quickly as they 'made up' the lack of capacity at the European hubs.

I mean it is my point of view how I look into this matter, but nevertheless your hypothesis of far east hubs are not as wrong as it sounds like  

Europe is lacking of capacity, for sure, but still they manage to have a reasonable hub network and that all player are accommodated where they belong to; in other words a good competition mix. Which is not necessarily the case in far east countries, where you have mostly one single airline having the majority of the market share and no competition. Moreover, their pricing strategy is compared to America or Europe ridiculous cheap. This naturally attracts more passenger transferring via DOH, DXB, and IST... to Asia or Europe/ America. Price attractiveness and incentives are as it looks an additional 'major' reason for the movement...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
By not expanding in a timely manner, Europe's hubs have fallen behind in acquiring new destinations.

I believe this has more to do with current economical situation of many airlines in Europe that expansion and new rtes are delicate topics...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
Seriously, how will the congested hubs 'open up' to the new inland Chinese cities and Indonesia as they continue their incredibly rapid expansion?

I don't know if there is any international demand for it but some airlines are flying to mainland China, not all but I guess this has mainly to do with the Chinese government... That is one of the reasons why HKG is concentrating on expanding/ finishing T2 and the extended apron, to coop with the traffic.


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