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Topic: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: deltaffindfw
Posted 2013-01-10 08:44:31 and read 19653 times.

I was on the DFW Airport FB page, and someone posted this. I hadn't seen it anywhere. Looks like Terminal B is getting 10 more gates:

https://www.dfwairport.com/cs/groups/public/documents/webasset/p1_062559.pdf

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-01-10 09:08:49 and read 19527 times.

That would be a great place for NK to set up shop. It wouldn't be too far of a tow from Terminal D for their arriving international flights.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-10 09:12:02 and read 19494 times.

Hadn't heard about this. When I first opened the presentation I wondered if these weren't just temporary gates designed to handle overflows during gate closures as part of the TRIP reconstruction. However, the renderings make this look like a very permanent facility. I didn't realize American Eagle was already in need of additional gates, since Terminal B often feels very quiet inside.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-01-10 09:34:17 and read 19354 times.

Hmmm interesting. I guess AA really is anticipating some major growth for Eagle! The placement and configuration of that 'stinger' does look very weird hanging off of DFW's characteristic semicircle terminals, but I guess it makes sense to put it there if Eagle needs more space and that corner ramp is not needed anymore.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-10 10:18:44 and read 19084 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
That would be a great place for NK to set up shop.

Except for the fact that this is designed for RJs.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: NorthStarDC4M
Posted 2013-01-10 10:23:27 and read 19053 times.

Certainly looks like a better option than remote stands for Eagle. Seems like every airport ends up with something like this eventually!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-10 10:24:53 and read 19038 times.

I noticed a completion date of April 2014, just 15 months from now. That is a fast timeline for 10 more gates at an airport as big as DFW. So I guess DFW is preparing for a quick return of 70-seaters to the AA DFW schedules now that the AA/APA pilot contract allows for it.

The question is: who will bring 70-seaters back to DFW in time for this upgrade? Will it be Eagle itself, or will OO/EV, AX/G7, or RAH (all with histories with AA) fly CR7/9s or E-Jets in Eagle colors? That said, among other routes, I think that FWA-DFW could use a 70-seater or two as the two daily ER4s are always full with hefty yields, plus the fact that DFW has more O&D than any other non-G4 flight from FWA.

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):
Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
That would be a great place for NK to set up shop.

Except for the fact that this is designed for RJs.

And it's in Eagle's terminal. But the good news for NK is that there's still plenty of space left in Terminal E, and there will be even more once TRIP is finished at E.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-01-10 11:27:52 and read 18755 times.

I don't think there is plenty of space left in E. TRIP provides some relief but once NK gets cranked up, gate space will probably getting tight.

Where would DFW put new airlines if they decided to come in or an airline like Spirit drastically expands to the point of not fitting in Terminal E?

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2013-01-10 13:00:08 and read 18489 times.

I don't think there is plenty of space left in E. TRIP provides some relief but once NK gets cranked up, gate space will probably getting tight.

Where would DFW put new airlines if they decided to come in or an airline like Spirit drastically expands to the point of not fitting in Terminal E?


Spirit should stay in the DFW E satellite. It is perfectly made for them.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-01-10 13:11:04 and read 18428 times.

How many gates does the TRIP terminal have now? I couldn't see all of them when I flew in/out last week.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-01-10 13:12:13 and read 18425 times.

I really do NOT understand this project at all. Being a DFW native, and flying through there frequently, there are many periods throughout the day when terminal B is a ghost town. And, the gates that were added the LAST time we did this seem to be utterly forlorn (used to park Fokker 100's, then ERJ's, along the straight extension from the B terminal).
If Eagle could manage to be more judicious in their use of gate space, this whole project could be avoided, in my firm opinion.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
And it's in Eagle's terminal. But the good news for NK is that there's still plenty of space left in Terminal E, and there will be even more once TRIP is finished at E.
Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 7):
I don't think there is plenty of space left in E. TRIP provides some relief but once NK gets cranked up, gate space will probably getting tight.

NK is happily on their own little island at Delta's satellite E building. I went over there recently; the Dickey's barbecue is fantastic, and there's no wait to get in!

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
Hmmm interesting. I guess AA really is anticipating some major growth for Eagle!

Then they should let them use gates in A or C, and not waste ANOTHER construction project at DFW, only to let it set empty ten years from now.

Like Satellite E; once all the terminal renovations are done, Satellite E will be obsolete. Expansion? This industry isn't expanding, it's consolidating.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-10 13:24:07 and read 18349 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Expansion? This industry isn't expanding, it's consolidating.


While it is true that the industry is in consolidation mode, major hubs around the country should benefit from this consolidation as smaller hubs are reduced or eliminated and this traffic re-routed over major hubs.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: PDX88
Posted 2013-01-10 13:36:13 and read 18282 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
I really do NOT understand this project at all. Being a DFW native, and flying through there frequently, there are many periods throughout the day when terminal B is a ghost town.

ExpressJet starts next month out of DFW, I'm guessing the B gates will go back to being packed.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: B727FA
Posted 2013-01-10 13:43:12 and read 18240 times.

Can someone tell me what a TRIP project is at DFW? And is NK only at the E satellite--is that the area where you go under the ramp to the small "mini-terminal?"

Thanks!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2013-01-10 15:12:24 and read 17348 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 11):
While it is true that the industry is in consolidation mode, major hubs around the country should benefit from this consolidation as smaller hubs are reduced or eliminated and this traffic re-routed over major hubs.

Good point.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 12):
ExpressJet starts next month out of DFW, I'm guessing the B gates will go back to being packed.

My prediction (always subject to being incorrect) is that this will come at the expense of mainline AA flights, thus freeing up space at flexible gates.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 13):
Can someone tell me what a TRIP project is at DFW? And is NK only at the E satellite--is that the area where you go under the ramp to the small "mini-terminal?

Yes, the long underground tunnel of doom.... which leads to the best barbecue on Earth!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-10 15:12:46 and read 17352 times.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 13):
Can someone tell me what a TRIP project is at DFW?

TRIP is a phased, top-to-bottom renovation of the four original terminals at DFW. Most of them opened in 1974, and although they have been expanded and remodeled since, TRIP will be the first large-scale reconstruction project. The first phase is currently underway in the northern half of Terminal A and the northern half of Terminal B. A portion of Terminal E will be closing soon as well.

I'm not sure what to expect from the TRIP renovations other than increased circulation space and a fresher look inside. The exteriors of the buildings will not be changing much, which is fine since the Skylink covers up just about everything on the airside anyhow.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
I really do NOT understand this project at all. Being a DFW native, and flying through there frequently, there are many periods throughout the day when terminal B is a ghost town. And, the gates that were added the LAST time we did this seem to be utterly forlorn (used to park Fokker 100's, then ERJ's, along the straight extension from the B terminal).

I agree this seems a bit excessive. Even before the northern third of Terminal B closed for the TRIP work, it was often eerily quiet up there, with only a handful of ATR flights a day.

In fairness to the "extension" gates at the bottom of B, that was built back in the late 1990s to handle mainline flights to heavy O&D points like ORD, LAX and SFO. Half of those gates had to close to make room for gates on Terminal D, but ever since then it's been a ghost town down there.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: Acey559
Posted 2013-01-10 15:36:17 and read 17052 times.

The ExpressJet flights come at the expense of Eagle flights. As we return airplanes ExpressJet will fill in that flying.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-10 15:49:27 and read 16889 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 7):
Where would DFW put new airlines if they decided to come in or an airline like Spirit drastically expands to the point of not fitting in Terminal E?

DFW has room for Terminal F, and Skylink is pre-tracked for a future Terminal F.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2013-01-10 15:59:28 and read 16761 times.

My mindset here is that if AA and US merge, we could potentially see a redeployment of some 100-seat aircraft ex-US to DFW, and this is where this project will come in handy.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):
DFW has room for Terminal F, and Skylink is pre-tracked for a future Terminal F.

Yah, but the needs aren't that great at the moment. Expanding Terminal B is a wiser approach. The targeted area used to serve as the widebody gates for flights on LH, BA and KE.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-01-10 17:05:17 and read 16091 times.

The gate waiting area doesn't seem very big for ten new gates - even if the gates are for regional aircraft. It looks like the makings for a real zoo.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: panam330
Posted 2013-01-10 17:16:51 and read 15956 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I noticed a completion date of April 2014, just 15 months from now. That is a fast timeline for 10 more gates at an airport as big as DFW. So I guess DFW is preparing for a quick return of 70-seaters to the AA DFW schedules now that the AA/APA pilot contract allows for it.

It's DFW we're talking about here - not JFK!   I think it's realistic. Whether or not it's needed, as others before have said, is something we'll have to wait to see.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2013-01-10 17:38:23 and read 15699 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I noticed a completion date of April 2014, just 15 months from now. That is a fast timeline for 10 more gates at an airport as big as DFW. So I guess DFW is preparing for a quick return of 70-seaters to the AA DFW schedules now that the AA/APA pilot contract allows for it.

We are talking Terminal B here and an area that is presently not being used on the north end so it is possible to build this in 15 months. After all SBN built their new concourse in about the same time.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: e38
Posted 2013-01-10 19:52:02 and read 14624 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 9), "How many gates does the TRIP terminal have now? I couldn't see all of them when I flew in/out last week."

There are nine gates at the Terminal E Satellite. Currently, seven of the gates have jetways installed. This is the current allocation at the terminal:

Gate E22: vacant (jetway).
Gate E23: vacant (jetway).
Gate E24: vacant, however, check-in desk in front of the gate has sign that says "Virgin America" (no jetway).
Gate E25: vacant, however, check-in desk in front of the gate has no marking on it (no jetway).
Gate E26: Spirit Airlines (jetway).
Gate E27: Spirit Airlines (jetway).
Gate E28: Spirit Airlines (jetway).
Gate E29: Spirit Airlines (jetway).
Gate E30: Spirit Airlines (jetway).

e38

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-01-10 21:21:11 and read 13998 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I noticed a completion date of April 2014, just 15 months from now. That is a fast timeline for 10 more gates at an airport as big as DFW.

This doesn't look like any major construction project relative to other big airport projects at DFW or elsewhere - I don't think 15 months seems to unrealistic.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 7):
I don't think there is plenty of space left in E. TRIP provides some relief but once NK gets cranked up, gate space will probably getting tight.

Where would DFW put new airlines if they decided to come in or an airline like Spirit drastically expands to the point of not fitting in Terminal E?

There is still space in E. It may not all be in one big solid bloc of gates, but there are gates smattered around E in between other carriers that are little or never used throughout the day, plus as others have said the E satellite also has open gates, and then of course there's D which has higher rents but also has plenty of capacity. And, of course, if AA and US do merge than that will free up 4 more high E gates right there.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Then they should let them use gates in A or C

Eagle doesn't want a split operation on both sides of the highway again. They tried that once, and it was less efficient, which is why they wanted to consolidate in B in the first place.

Quoting EricR (Reply 11):
While it is true that the industry is in consolidation mode, major hubs around the country should benefit from this consolidation as smaller hubs are reduced or eliminated and this traffic re-routed over major hubs.

  

DFW is a phenomenal hub with great potential.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
My mindset here is that if AA and US merge, we could potentially see a redeployment of some 100-seat aircraft ex-US to DFW, and this is where this project will come in handy.

I doubt it. If larger RJs are to be redeployed from the US network to the AA network, I suspect they'd be far more heavily focused on ORD and NYC than DFW. There are far fewer markets at DFW where, say, a 90-seater would really come in handy, whereas at ORD there are tons.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
The targeted area used to serve as the widebody gates for flights on LH, BA and KE.

Yep. You can still see the very 70s-style former arrivals hall through the windows up by the higher B gates.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-01-11 05:57:54 and read 12115 times.

Wow, I did not realize the Terminal E Satellite had 9 gates, of which 7 have jetways. For some reason, even though I'm in terminal E all the time, I thought there were 4-5 gates. This makes my prior posts about not having enough room in Terminal E mute at this point. Even with only 7 gates, NK should be able to push 70 flights a day or so.

Great to see the Terminal B addition, though I'm not sure how much it's warranted. With that said, it's great to see an airport do something before it actually become a problem instead of waiting too long and it becomes a real pain in the butt.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: e38
Posted 2013-01-11 08:36:09 and read 11340 times.

With reference to previous comments about space in Terminal E, "I don't think there is plenty of space left in E . . .,"

many of the gates in Terminal E are very much "under-utilized."

Gate E2 is used by Air Canada; occasionally United also uses this gate but it is not occupied much of the day.
Gate E10 is used by JetBlue for three flights a day to Boston.
Gate E11 is only used twice a day (three times a day seasonally) by Alaska.
Gate E31 is used by Frontier as an "overflow" gate; vacant almost all day.
Gate E32 is Frontier's primary gate; used for approximately 5 flights a day to Denver.
Gates E33 and E34 are used by Virgin America; six flights per day (3 each to LAX/SFO).

Some of this will change, of course, during the renovation of Terminal E.

e38.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: dfwcre8tive
Posted 2013-01-11 08:50:09 and read 11235 times.

There are also plans to add a pier to the south side of Terminal D (extending toward future Terminal F) if/when additional gates are needed. This would be similar to the B/D connector.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-01-11 09:36:12 and read 11329 times.

How many wide body gates (up to 747/77W) could they add on the south side of Terminal D?

Currently that is a bay for aircraft to be parked while not using the terminal gates.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: pennstation
Posted 2013-01-14 15:12:00 and read 10527 times.

I’ve read several items about DFW’s terminals over the past six months – most of them in publically available documents on the airport’s website. I’m not now in a position to find the documents and post links, but can probably do so later if anyone’s interested. I’ll try to summarize the info as accurately as memory allows.

TERM B NORTH STINGER
The planned square footage has increased since the PDF that deltaffindfw posted was created. I don’t think that the number of gates has increased, but the interior of the stinger should be larger. The airport says that the change is due to “evolving customer requirements” (or some such phrase). I assume that this means that AA wants to use higher capacity RJs at these gates than was originally planned.

TERM E SATELLITE
As of last fall, the plan was for US Airways to join Spirit in the satellite sometime in May. I wonder if Virgin America is going to move out there instead of, or in addition to, US.

TERM A TRIP
The first section of DFW’s Terminal Renewal and Improvement Program – the north third of terminal A – should be open for airline operations on February 5. This is probably what AA referred to recently as their “terminal of the future” (or, again, some such phrase). The middle third of terminal A should close for renovation sometime in March.

TERM D
The airport is running out of gates in the south end of terminal D during peak periods. These are gates D6 through D16 that Eagle international flights share with Emirates, QANTAS, Lufthansa, et al. The airport has purchased (or will soon purchase) busses, air stairs, and generators in order to conduct hardstand operations. In addition, as part of TRIP, an FIS corridor is being built along the B-D connector so that (I assume) gates B4A, B4B, and B5 can be used for international Eagle arrivals with pax clearing immigration & customs in terminal D.

As mentioned previously, DFW has awarded a contract for the preliminary design of a stinger built off the south end of terminal D. I assume that this would be the D-F connector when terminal F is built.

The last terminal D capacity item has to do with the Skylink train. The airport has awarded a contract to study the feasibility of using dedicated trainsets and separate platforms to bring arriving international passengers from some other terminal(s) to terminal D for immigration & customs processing.

Hopefully, there’s someone more knowledgeable on the forum who can clarify and correct my post. Let me know if you’d like a link to the source material.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-15 05:08:47 and read 9996 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 23):
This doesn't look like any major construction project relative to other big airport projects at DFW or elsewhere - I don't think 15 months seems to unrealistic.

I agree, I think the timeline is ambitious but doable. Some parts of the country would need 15 months just to get the concrete poured, but in Texas/Arizona/Nevada, things like this can seemingly get built overnight.

I don't, however, think the budget is realistic. $22-25mil for a project like this -- even though it's a small addition and fairly minimalistic -- is just not accurate. Consultants usually blow the cost estimates though, so I guess I'm not surprised. I was just involved in a $28mil project with a similarly ambitious timeline, but I don't think even that's enough to cover this proposal. I'm guessing this will cost closer to $30mil, which is pricey for a 10 gate RJ expansion. Ground-load gates are no fun, but they could build 20 stands for half the cost.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: PennStation
Posted 2013-01-19 16:38:51 and read 9437 times.



Before they can move any farther out from the terminal they'll need to pave and reroute the taxi lane to the dirt area around and beyond the covered blue waste container.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-19 23:35:30 and read 9058 times.

Maybe this is a dumb question but I remember years ago American timetables used to have printed in them for destinations served out of DFW which cities were served from which terminal. Each city would say something like "All flights served from terminal 2E" (now A) or "All flights served from terminal 3E" (now C). International is obviously all in D now. Does American still route their flights like this so you know which terminal to go to ahead of time or do you have to check before flying out, dropping someone off or picking someone up? This is an easier task now then in the 70's or 80's to check ahead with the internet and smart phones but I didn't know if there is still a logic to it like that.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-20 08:36:55 and read 8729 times.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 31):
Does American still route their flights like this so you know which terminal to go to ahead of time or do you have to check before flying out, dropping someone off or picking someone up?

AA for the most part routes DFW flights like this:
Domestic mainline - A/C
Domestic Eagle - B
International mainline & Eagle - D

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-20 08:50:55 and read 8685 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 32):
AA for the most part routes DFW flights like this:
Domestic mainline - A/C
Domestic Eagle - B
International mainline & Eagle - D

That's pretty much accurate. ORD flights almost always seem to depart from Terminal A. LAX and SFO are almost always out of C. Terminal A seems to get some of the less-frequented mainline destinations, like ICT, MKE, OMA and JAX. But overall there's no rhyme or reason to it, other than (of course) Terminal B gets all of the Eagle flights.

The most random assignments seem to be the domestic flights that leave from Terminal D during non-peak hours. My guess is these are mostly aircraft that have come in from Mexico and the Caribbean and are continuing on to domestic points, but it's always a very mixed bag of destinations - DTW, MCI, SNA, etc.

Who remembers the giant blue departure boards that were set up along International Parkway in the 1980s and much of the 1990s? There was a set at each airport entrance, and they listed flight numbers and gates so you knew which terminal exit to take. They were removed after some very high-profile lawsuits due to traffic accidents that occurred when drivers slowed down to read the boards. I remember watching the local TV news in high school when they showed the boards being deactivated and taken down. After that you had to call AA's 1-800 number to find out where to go, although by then the internet was in its infancy and pretty soon you could get it on American's website, too.

Bit of a tangent from the thread topic but interesting stuff.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-01-20 08:57:03 and read 8692 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
But overall there's no rhyme or reason to it, other than (of course) Terminal B gets all of the Eagle flights.

... except Eagle's international arrivals/departures, which of course are in D.  
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
The most random assignments seem to be the domestic flights that leave from Terminal D during non-peak hours. My guess is these are mostly aircraft that have come in from Mexico and the Caribbean and are continuing on to domestic points, but it's always a very mixed bag of destinations - DTW, MCI, SNA, etc.

I also find that often D often gets the early-morning and late-evening departures to places like LAX. For whatever reason, every time I've ever been on the first or second, or last, flight of the day to LAX, it has always been out of D.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
Who remembers the giant blue departure boards that were set up along International Parkway in the 1980s and much of the 1990s? There was a set at each airport entrance, and they listed flight numbers and gates so you knew which terminal exit to take. They were removed after some very high-profile lawsuits due to traffic accidents that occurred when drivers slowed down to read the boards. I remember watching the local TV news in high school when they showed the boards being deactivated and taken down. After that you had to call AA's 1-800 number to find out where to go, although by then the internet was in its infancy and pretty soon you could get it on American's website, too.

Ah yes - remember those vividly. They were quite convenient in their day, although of course ultimately unnecessary nowadays.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-01-20 09:34:27 and read 8572 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Like Satellite E; once all the terminal renovations are done, Satellite E will be obsolete. Expansion? This industry isn't expanding, it's consolidating.

I was watching some show or documentary. The line that caught my attention is that about 600 million people fly within the U.S. annually. IIRC, by 2030, that could be 1 billion people. Considering that Texas is a state with a growing population (especially if other states keep hiking their income taxes), DFW probably needs expansion in the long term.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-01-20 11:17:21 and read 8440 times.

Some Eagle international departures do depart from Terminal B now, simply because Eagle does not have enough space at D. Generally these departures only operate from very low-B, like B4-B12 basically.

I think it would be great if Eagle could get FIS back in high-B where international arrivals used to arrive. They could have it open just during peak periods and then revert all flights to D when there was availability.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-01-20 11:40:23 and read 8370 times.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 36):
Some Eagle international departures do depart from Terminal B now, simply because Eagle does not have enough space at D. Generally these departures only operate from very low-B, like B4-B12 basically.

There are plans to link the very low B gates to the Terminal D FIS as part of TRIP.

Quoting commavia (Reply 34):
... except Eagle's international arrivals/departures, which of course are in D.

I remember flying DFW-FWA out of D once, but the ERJ had just come in from a Mexican airport. For the most part, though, DFW-FWA goes out of B like all other Eagle domestic flights.

[Edited 2013-01-20 11:40:44]

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-01-20 12:00:38 and read 8316 times.

Regardless Eagle really needs more gates in DFW. Gate holds are an extremely common occurance and whenever I am there, every single gate is occupied with an Eagle. During peak times it can be maddening! Probably as soon as the north stinger nears completion, we'll hear plans for a south stinger!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: PennStation
Posted 2013-01-20 12:30:21 and read 8290 times.

I’m in Terminal D every Friday morning from 6AM to 10AM. During that time period there are always a number of AA flights that are entirely domestic (arrival & departure). We noticed an increase in these flights when they closed the northern third of Terminal A almost two years ago.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 31):
This is an easier task now then in the 70's or 80's to check ahead with the internet and smart phones…


I’m always amazed by the number of cell phone users I talk to who are surprised to find out that their gate has changed or their flight has been canceled. AA’s free notification service can provide a phone call, email, or text message when those things happen.

Slightly over four years ago my wife and I were waiting to board our twice-delayed flight to LGA. The CNN Airport Network wasn’t showing actual news, but kept repeating some inane fashion and financial advice shows. My wife received an email saying that our flight had been canceled. She called the 800 number, was told which flight we now had seats on (middle seats, yuk!), which gate we needed to go to, and where we could stop along the way to print our new boarding passes. As she ended the call, the gate agent was just then making a PA telling the others that the flight was canceled. Epilogue – when we got to New York the big story was USA1549 that had ditched in the Hudson.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-01-20 15:40:51 and read 8030 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 35):
I was watching some show or documentary. The line that caught my attention is that about 600 million people fly within the U.S. annually. IIRC, by 2030, that could be 1 billion people. Considering that Texas is a state with a growing population (especially if other states keep hiking their income taxes), DFW probably needs expansion in the long term.

Absolutely. The trajectory for Texas - economically and demographically - is upward, and that definitely goes for North Texas as well. Longer-term, expansion at DFW will absolutely be necessary to keep pace if the Metroplex keeps adding 1 million new residents per decade. And, of course, the airport has already planned for the inevitability - the SkyLink heading from Terminal D to Terminal E already runs on tracks laid out for a future Terminal F on the west side of the airport south of D.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 36):
Some Eagle international departures do depart from Terminal B now, simply because Eagle does not have enough space at D. Generally these departures only operate from very low-B, like B4-B12 basically.

Interesting - didn't realize that.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 36):
I think it would be great if Eagle could get FIS back in high-B where international arrivals used to arrive. They could have it open just during peak periods and then revert all flights to D when there was availability.

I wouldn't hold my breath. DFW was pretty firm on consolidating all FIS in D, which CBP was happy to go along with because of how much more efficient it is to have things centralized. Part of the pressure on D - and indeed all the majority-AA terminals at DFW - is that the renovation of A has temporarily taken a chunk of gate capacity away. Once TRIP is fully completed in a few years, that will hopefully alleviate some of the pressure on D by allowing AA to shift some of the entirely-domestic flights back over to A/C. Nonetheless, I recognize that in the interim, and indeed after that occurs, D will still be quite busy.

All that being said, I'm frankly happy and gratified to see that gate space in D is becoming a problem - in the context of DFW as an airport and a hub, and for the Metroplex as a region, that's frankly a great problem to have. And to think - a mere 8 years ago when it opened people were calling D a useless white elephant. My, how times change.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 38):
Regardless Eagle really needs more gates in DFW.

If things keep going the way they are going, I would not be surprised to ultimately see some portion of A or C get shifted back over to Eagle, particularly once Eagle starts operating large RJs not far off in size from the F100s AA mainline used to run out of A/C. While B is apparently getting quite full at peak times, A and C at times seem relatively under-utilized (albeit, probably at the same times B is less full). Longer-term, of course, continued growth of the hub is going to necessitate new gates altogether, and not interim 'stinger' solutions. Who knows? In 5 years from now, we could seriously be discussing AA and the airport building out Terminal F.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2013-01-21 03:21:27 and read 7671 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
Who remembers the giant blue departure boards that were set up along International Parkway in the 1980s and much of the 1990s?

I had forgotten all about those. I remember seeing them when I drove into 2E at 4am one morning in late '86. I guess they were way more important before the internet and smart phones. TWA used to have them at MCI terminal B from its opening in '72 until sometime around '84 when all westbounds were moved to STL. One flipboard at each gate complex in B as you drove by but they got taken down when all ops were concentrated at gates 33-34-35. I remember when I was a kid my brother and me used to get excited seeing those signs when we went on a flight or with mom to pick up dad from a flight. Electronic signs just aren't the same  

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-21 03:28:18 and read 7677 times.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 41):
I remember seeing them when I drove into 2E at 4am one morning in late '86. I guess they were way more important before the internet and smart phones.

When DFW opened in 1974, there were actually much smaller departure boards at Terminals 2W and 3E, for Braniff and American. They were mounted on regular road signs and only listed about 6-8 flights each. There was one sign for each terminal section (A, B and in the case of 2W, section C - 2W was the only terminal that was fully built out in 1974.) Speaks to the lower volume of flights using DFW in those days!

I always found it interesting that when American decided it needed to expand at DFW in the early 1980s, they chose to build out Terminal 2E and connect it to 3E, rather than finish out the bottom third of 3E. That wasn't done until the late 1980s, when the rather crude-looking "temporary" concourse was built in place of 3E section C. The modular gates are still in use today. The Skylink at least makes it harder to see how cheap and tacked-on those gates look!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: deltaffindfw
Posted 2013-01-28 11:55:34 and read 7017 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 42):
The modular gates are still in use today. The Skylink at least makes it harder to see how cheap and tacked-on those gates look!

I wonder if that will be the last area to undergo TRIP. I would think they would raze the whole thing and build a proper structure.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: 727tiger
Posted 2013-01-28 13:31:08 and read 6890 times.

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 43):
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 42):
The modular gates are still in use today. The Skylink at least makes it harder to see how cheap and tacked-on those gates look!

I wonder if that will be the last area to undergo TRIP. I would think they would raze the whole thing and build a proper structure.

Amen. Last time I was in that end of Terminal C you could clearly tell when you were walking into the tacked on modular portion of the terminal. Not great news when I learn one of those gates will be from where a connecting flight will be departing.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: PennStation
Posted 2013-01-29 09:48:30 and read 6529 times.

Terminal C Section C (which includes the modular gates) is the very last project on the airport's TRIP schedule. Construction is penciled in for the entire year of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it slip into 2018. I expect that the modular gates will be razed, but that may depend in part on the health of the economy and the demand for gates during 2016.

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-01-29 11:19:50 and read 6369 times.

Going a bit off topic from the Terminal B 'stinger' here, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the first completed TRIP increment when it opens next month. AA referred to it as the "Terminal of Tomorrow" in one of their press releases connected to the new branding, and it's going to be the first facility completely outfitted in the new identity. Between that and the first phase of the new Love Field concourse, February is shaping up to be a big month for DFW-area airports!

Topic: RE: New "Stinger" Gates At DFW Terminal B
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-01-29 11:30:44 and read 6353 times.

Quoting 727tiger (Reply 44):
Amen. Last time I was in that end of Terminal C you could clearly tell when you were walking into the tacked on modular portion of the terminal. Not great news when I learn one of those gates will be from where a connecting flight will be departing.

Funny - flying through there, I've never really thought they were all that bad. You can certainly tell there is a different - the sloped ramp down to those gates, the more narrow hallway and more scant seating, and the relatively limited food options, but given that the basic decor generally matched the rest of the terminal, and there were real/more substantial food options just up the ramp across from C31, I never found those gates too terrible. Then again, I don't fly out of them often. (Side note: I do remember, though, after 9/11, when that area was the designated departure area for the DCA flights and all DCA departures were out of those high C gates - definitely flew out of there a few times then.)

Quoting PennStation (Reply 45):
Terminal C Section C (which includes the modular gates) is the very last project on the airport's TRIP schedule. Construction is penciled in for the entire year of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it slip into 2018. I expect that the modular gates will be razed

Interesting - I did not realize that those gates were slated to be completely redone, including the structure itself.

Quoting PennStation (Reply 45):
that may depend in part on the health of the economy and the demand for gates during 2016.

Understandable, although if things keep going the way they're going I could definitely see AA/Eagle by then needing that gate space, particularly if there is a merger and some of the PHX capacity does shift to DFW.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 46):
Going a bit off topic from the Terminal B 'stinger' here, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the first completed TRIP increment when it opens next month.

The sections of A that have already reopened with portions of the new, revitalized "look and feel" are certainly nice. Nothing earth-shattering, and certainly not as nice as D, but I think they did a fairly good job given the limited budget.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 46):
AA referred to it as the "Terminal of Tomorrow" in one of their press releases connected to the new branding, and it's going to be the first facility completely outfitted in the new identity.

It will be very interesting to see the new terminal outfitted with the new branding.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 46):
Between that and the first phase of the new Love Field concourse, February is shaping up to be a big month for DFW-area airports!

Indeed. From what I've seen so far, the new Love terminal looks quite nice.


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