Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5676556/

Topic: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2013-01-30 11:17:24 and read 8249 times.

Hey all,

We're about 2 weeks into the FAA's Emergency AD grounding the 787. Right now the schedules still show UA operating the 787 for DEN-NRT with the inaugural on 31MAR, but does anyone know what the contingency plan(s) is/are in the event 787 is not back operational by then?? Will the route be indefinitely delayed, suspended, or operated by a 777??

Has anyone heard any rumors or speculation??



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Price
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pinkteam



[Edited 2013-01-30 11:18:01]

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2013-01-30 11:21:31 and read 8243 times.

It should be back to 787 once they return.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2013-01-30 11:25:52 and read 8213 times.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 1):

It should be back to 787 once they return.

Yes, thank you.  

My question is if the 787 is not operational by 31MAR, what is the contingency plan for that??

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-30 11:28:17 and read 8181 times.

I would imagine they'd delay the launch. The economics and performance of the 787 are what make it work.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2013-01-30 11:29:28 and read 8181 times.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
My question is if the 787 is not operational by 31MAR, what is the contingency plan for that??

You just got "avensa'd"

I'd say they'll reroute pax over SEA/SFO/LAX until the 787 is back.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-01-30 12:06:12 and read 7987 times.

They won't run this route without the 787 given the economic factors involved. There isn't sufficient demand/yield to warrant a 777 a/c and the 767 can't run this route.

My impression is the 787 won't be fully operational until sometime after this route is due to start so they'll have a bit of a delay then get it underway later in the spring.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-01-30 12:07:26 and read 7987 times.

Just thinking out loud here in asking but would it be possible to use a 767 version (seat-wise) and just make a quick fuel stop along the way, in say - SEA, YVR or even ADK (ADK would be the best with very little chance of on-ground traffic delays) - or any other point along the way? Besides giving up a few minutes of out-of the-way flying time, and the refueling itself, couldn't this be the best option here? No need to change planes, not even any need to let folks out of the plane, and maybe not even any real need of more than an hour or so to this flight? Does UA have a couple of 767s around?

At least in my thinking, why rebook all those pax already there? Just find a spare plane - and a 767 with a quick fuel stop might be the best option.

 

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-01-30 12:12:59 and read 7937 times.

Fuel stops are expensive and when you combine it with the fact the 767's fuel economy is over 20% worse than the 787, it is cheaper to reroute the passengers and cargo then lose one's "tail" flying a 767 via ANC or SEA.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: JoePatroni707
Posted 2013-01-30 12:21:55 and read 7887 times.

I would guess that it depends on how long the 787 will grounded when the date arrives. If a fix is in the works, they may start it with a 777 and run it for a few weeks or so. Back in 91 AA did not delay the start of SJCNRT even though the MD11 was plauged with problems, they ran a DC10 for a while on the route. Although the DC10 could make it non stop it had MTOW issues vs SJC runway length and had to make a stop in OAK a few times for fuel. AA just then put the flight on a heavy weight diet, till the MD11s took over with I think was late 91 or early 92.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-30 12:33:40 and read 7828 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 5):
My impression is the 787 won't be fully operational until sometime after this route is due to start so they'll have a bit of a delay then get it underway later in the spring.
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 8):
I would guess that it depends on how long the 787 will grounded when the date arrives.

Equally as worrisome, though maybe not relevant to the DEN-NRT route, is if the grounding impacts the airplane's ETOPS. No one bought this airplane for 240 min ETOPS...

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-01-30 13:14:17 and read 7644 times.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 8):
Back in 91 AA did not delay the start of SJCNRT even though the MD11 was plauged with problems, they ran a DC10 for a while on the route.

Yeah, but ANA just suspended their 3-day old SJC-NRT flight even though they have 767s and 777s that could technically handle the route.

Let's hope the start of DEN-NRT with the 787 isn't an issue by then......

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-01-30 13:24:09 and read 7576 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 7):
Fuel stops are expensive and when you combine it with the fact the 767's fuel economy is over 20% worse than the 787, it is cheaper to reroute the passengers and cargo then lose one's "tail" flying a 767 via ANC or SEA.

Okay..... I hear you with this. But even with some 20% increase in costs, I believe that in the press conference about the DEN-NRT route, UA management stated that it would concentrate its premium traffic to those points such as IAD, IAH, ORD, EWR, LAX, SFO and even SEA, and route its lower end traffic here through DEN, thus the 787. So wouldn't UA be giving up some premium $$$$ if it were to reroute those DEN pax through other points? At any rate, I think that we can agree here that the number crunchers are very busy with all of their spreadsheets figuring this out if DEN-NRT can't start without the 787.

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Equally as worrisome, though maybe not relevant to the DEN-NRT route, is if the grounding impacts the airplane's ETOPS. No one bought this airplane for 240 min ETOPS...

Per the GCM, the biggest land gap on the DEN-NRT route would be from the end of the Aleutian Islands to Japan, and you are correct in that 240 min ETOPS is not needed here. But just asking, where would this 240 min ETOPS be needed with future routes for the 787?


 

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: steex
Posted 2013-01-30 13:56:11 and read 7444 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):
Just thinking out loud here in asking but would it be possible to use a 767 version (seat-wise) and just make a quick fuel stop along the way, in say - SEA, YVR or even ADK (ADK would be the best with very little chance of on-ground traffic delays) - or any other point along the way?

UA can probably accommodate the majority of the pax via their other TPAC flights. Keep in mind some of the pax would've been flying DEN-NRT-XXX, wherein UA could reroute DEN-SFO-XXX for several major destinations. Other pax would've been doing YYY-DEN-NRT, and they can be accommodated flying YYY-ORD/SFO/LAX-NRT instead. They can also push some of the pax over SEA if they want to go down that road (particular those who are O&D at the DEN end). In any event, it would make more sense to upgauge one of the existing flights if absolutely necessary - but considering they've managed to carry the load without a DEN flight up until now, they'll get by.

As an aside, there is absolutely zero chance they would consider stopping at ADK. The airport is not suitable for scheduled ops by a widebody and it would make no sense for UA to place infrastructure or make arrangements for fueling at an airport that serves no particular use to them otherwise. Also, ADK can fall victim to the weather problems that often plague the Aleutian Islands.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-01-30 14:08:43 and read 7377 times.

Quoting steex (Reply 12):

Okay, ADK is a bad idea....... and as for reroutes....... probably easiest doable and most cost effective. As for upguage (probably 777 if need be) a lot of seats would most likely have to be given away to fill the plane if this were to go on too long.

My bad here, but I haven't been following the 787 grounding threads here, which I believe will soon be into the 7th thread. Can anyone provide an easy update as to where we are with this? Is it still the batteries, or have more problems been found? Any idea of when this grounding will be lifted? Might the 787 be back in time for the DEN-NRT inauguration as planned on March 31?


 

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: Cessna172RG
Posted 2013-01-30 14:09:20 and read 7376 times.

Ok, consider this:

In March of 2002, I was flying Houston to Tokyo/Narita on a Continental 777-200. We had to make an emergency landing about an hour and a half after departing IAH because a passenger passed away. We dumped fuel and landed at Denver. After a brief refueling, we took off and flew nonstop from Denver to Tokyo/Narita without a problem.

So, I don't see why they can't fly that route in a 777-200.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-30 14:47:05 and read 7239 times.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 14):
Ok, consider this:

In March of 2002, I was flying Houston to Tokyo/Narita on a Continental 777-200. We had to make an emergency landing about an hour and a half after departing IAH because a passenger passed away. We dumped fuel and landed at Denver. After a brief refueling, we took off and flew nonstop from Denver to Tokyo/Narita without a problem.

So, I don't see why they can't fly that route in a 777-200.

The limitations aren't technical, they're market driven. They could fly it, but it doesn't make market sense to do so.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2013-01-30 14:48:47 and read 7229 times.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 14):
So, I don't see why they can't fly that route in a 777-200.

The absolutely CAN, but it's going to be a river of red. No sense in intentionally losing that much money.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-01-30 15:34:38 and read 7082 times.

If the 787 is still grounded or questionable, they will not start DEN-NRT. The route is marginal to begin with, it is out of range for the 763 and the 772 is too large. There may not be enough 772s available either.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 7):
the 767's fuel economy is over 20% worse than the 787

That is a bit of a canard from Boeing. The 20% is believed to the the fuel CASM over the 762 (with the 787 at 9 abreast). The 763 has only slightly higher trip costs and has more seats, which is why there are so few 762s still operating. The 762 is probably the least efficient aircraft in its class. The advantage over the 763 is smaller and at least the Y seating is more comfortable in the 767 than the 787. The overall trip costs are probably not that much higher but NRT is out of range so it is irrelevant.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: ORDBOSEWR
Posted 2013-01-30 15:37:21 and read 7070 times.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 14):

Ok, consider this:

In March of 2002, I was flying Houston to Tokyo/Narita on a Continental 777-200. We had to make an emergency landing about an hour and a half after departing IAH because a passenger passed away. We dumped fuel and landed at Denver. After a brief refueling, we took off and flew nonstop from Denver to Tokyo/Narita without a problem.

So, I don't see why they can't fly that route in a 777-200.

and I am sure that CO did not make a penny on that flight! (for many reasons).

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 16):
The absolutely CAN, but it's going to be a river of red. No sense in intentionally losing that much money.

  

The only way that UA opens this flight and the 787 is still grounded they feel the 787 grounding is coming to an end.

UA can easily rebook all of the customers via LAX or SFO on connections, so the capacity to NRT is not needed by UA.

It is all about profitability! As it should be

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-01-30 16:10:01 and read 6943 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Can anyone provide an easy update as to where we are with this? Is it still the batteries, or have more problems been found? Any idea of when this grounding will be lifted? Might the 787 be back in time for the DEN-NRT inauguration as planned on March 31?

The focus is on the batteries at the moment. We don't know for certain what is going on beyond the fact they are looking first at the batteries, then the charging system and back to the burned batteries to track down possible mfr defects. They may also be looking at how the battery is set up to see if increasing the spacing between cells, a change in the safety margins in the software and/or increased containment are needed. This is a complex process which is why its taking so long.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17):
That is a bit of a canard from Boeing. The 20% is believed to the the fuel CASM over the 762 (with the 787 at 9 abreast). The 763 has only slightly higher trip costs and has more seats, which is why there are so few 762s still operating. The 762 is probably the least efficient aircraft in its class. The advantage over the 763 is smaller and at least the Y seating is more comfortable in the 767 than the 787. The overall trip costs are probably not that much higher but NRT is out of range so it is irrelevant.
NH reported their fuel savings versus their 767s was on the order of 21% and that is before the next PiP for the engines which is due by 2014. There is no doubt this a/c saves a ton of fuel versus an a/c designed in the '70s be it 18% or 22% or more.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_06_26_2012_p01-01-470896.xml
[Edited 2013-01-30 16:16:08]

[Edited 2013-01-30 16:18:00]

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: BD500
Posted 2013-01-30 16:15:24 and read 6900 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):

Just thinking out loud here in asking but would it be possible to use a 767 version (seat-wise) and just make a quick fuel stop along the way, in say - SEA, YVR or even ADK (ADK would be the best with very little chance of on-ground traffic delays)

I don't think YVR make sense, I believe the passengers will have to clear customs and they would'nt be able to sell the YVR-HND portion.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: COSPN
Posted 2013-01-31 04:32:14 and read 6409 times.

HNL-DEN is going 777-200 3 class froma 757 1 Apr so who knows ??!?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-01-31 08:46:41 and read 5861 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 3):
I would imagine they'd delay the launch. The economics and performance of the 787 are what make it work.
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 5):
They won't run this route without the 787 given the economic factors involved. There isn't sufficient demand/yield to warrant a 777 a/c and the 767 can't run this route.
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):
Yeah, but ANA just suspended their 3-day old SJC-NRT flight even though they have 767s and 777s that could technically handle the route
Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
At any rate, I think that we can agree here that the number crunchers are very busy with all of their spreadsheets figuring this out if DEN-NRT can't start without the 787.
Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
The limitations aren't technical, they're market driven. They could fly it, but it doesn't make market sense to do so.
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17):
If the 787 is still grounded or questionable, they will not start DEN-NRT. The route is marginal to begin with, it is out of range for the 763 and the 772 is too large. There may not be enough 772s available either.

Despite all these comments, I'll mention that JAL is now running both BOS-NRT and SAN-NRT using their 777-200ERs -- both routes at slightly reduced frequencies. (BOS is 5x wkly instead of the 787-scheduled daily and SAN at 3x wkly rather than planned 4x wkly.)

And both of these routes have been said to be dependent on the economics of the 787 to be profitable.

I think there's something to be said for a carrier taking a route seriously and honoring a commitment they've made to fly a new route even if they will probably lose some money temporarily.

I wouldn't be so sure that UA will just ignore the bookings that already exist on the DEN-NRT route and anger more customers than they've already managed to do over the last year or so! I wouldn't be surprised to see them take the high road and sub another a/c on the route and start it when it's scheduled to start.

Finally, I can honestly say that I'm very happy that SAN-TYO was the choice of JL! As I see how they are working through this nasty situation (the grounding of a new airplane) and making things work as well as they are, I continue to be extremely impressed.

bb

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-01-31 11:09:17 and read 4966 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
I think there's something to be said for a carrier taking a route seriously and honoring a commitment they've made to fly a new route even if they will probably lose some money temporarily.

Don't make JAL out to be Mother Theresa here -- odds are decent they're flying the routes at a loss with the 777 because the alternative of no service at all may result in greater adverse financial impact to the company under the terms of the TPAC JV.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: United1
Posted 2013-01-31 11:12:53 and read 4921 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 23):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
I think there's something to be said for a carrier taking a route seriously and honoring a commitment they've made to fly a new route even if they will probably lose some money temporarily.

Don't make JAL out to be Mother Theresa here -- odds are decent they're flying the routes at a loss with the 777 because the alternative of no service at all may result in greater adverse financial impact to the company under the terms of the TPAC JV.

...we also don't know if there is some sort of financial compensation coming from Boeing or the insurance company.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-01-31 11:29:27 and read 4976 times.

can DEN-NRT be run with a 2-class 763?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2013-01-31 11:33:49 and read 4999 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):

Just thinking out loud here in asking but would it be possible to use a 767 version (seat-wise) and just make a quick fuel stop along the way, in say - SEA, YVR or even ADK (ADK would be the best with very little chance of on-ground traffic delays) - or any other point along the way?

ADAK?? Really? Have you ever made the approach into Adak?? No.. I do Not think so, The 767-322's with the winglets
are flying IAD-IST non stop, East and west, they could easily make the DEN-SEA-NRT or Den-ANC-NRT on a re-clear routing westbound and file a reclear via SFO coming eastbound. I don't think right now that anyone at the job is even contemplating NOT using the 787. It just wouldn't make sense to do it. I don't have a say BUT since you don't either,
No 787? No DEN-NRT. Non-Stop. No substitutions either.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-31 11:57:46 and read 5075 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Despite all these comments, I'll mention that JAL is now running both BOS-NRT and SAN-NRT using their 777-200ERs -- both routes at slightly reduced frequencies. (BOS is 5x wkly instead of the 787-scheduled daily and SAN at 3x wkly rather than planned 4x wkly.)

And both of these routes have been said to be dependent on the economics of the 787 to be profitable.

I think there's something to be said for a carrier taking a route seriously and honoring a commitment they've made to fly a new route even if they will probably lose some money temporarily.

I wouldn't be so sure that UA will just ignore the bookings that already exist on the DEN-NRT route and anger more customers than they've already managed to do over the last year or so! I wouldn't be surprised to see them take the high road and sub another a/c on the route and start it when it's scheduled to start.

Finally, I can honestly say that I'm very happy that SAN-TYO was the choice of JL! As I see how they are working through this nasty situation (the grounding of a new airplane) and making things work as well as they are, I continue to be extremely impressed.

As you come down off that high horse you're on, I would point out that the difference in what JAL is doing and, hypothetically, what UA would do is the simple fact that JAL has already been operating the route for the past 10 months. It's harder to suddenly cancel a nonstop that's been operating since April 2012 than it is to delay the launch of a new route. Airlines have delayed or cancelled planned launches of routes in the past and it's never really hurt them.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-01-31 13:05:28 and read 4951 times.

Although its possible JL will continue SAN at 3x a week, it becomes problematic given the loads they can carry westbound. They key is whether the flight remains for sale into the later spring and early summer. They are clearing prior bookings now, they may not continue the flight w/o the 787 once those are cleared.

As stated previously, DEN-NRT would require a tech stop for the 767. If you combine that with the fact this a/c is far less fuel efficient than the 787, its unlikely UA will ever attempt the route with the 767.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-01-31 13:34:59 and read 4879 times.

United will not run this route without the 787 and although the 777 can make the flight it is to much plane for this route and starting this spring and summer sUA 777's will be stretched pretty thin. United still has a few more sUA 777-200er that need to be converted to IPTE and with ORD-HKG going to a sUA 777-200er at the end of March I do not see much slack in our 777 schedule this spring and summer. Also if the 787 are still grounded then we will still need 777's for both LAX-NRT and LAX-PVG.

So its a 787 or nothing for DEN-NRT.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-01-31 13:39:05 and read 4859 times.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 29):

would a one stop DEN-SEA-NRT or DEN-LAX-NRT work? Tag it on with a 777?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-01-31 13:42:20 and read 4861 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 23):
Don't make JAL out to be Mother Theresa here --
Quoting catiii (Reply 27):
As you come down off that high horse you're on...

Wow, excuse me for being impressed. I suppose I should feel the same as those in SJC who've indefinitely lost their new NH nonstop to Tokyo after what, 1 trip?

Quoting catiii (Reply 27):
... the simple fact that JAL has already been operating the route for the past 10 months.

SAN-NRT began December 2 and we saw 26 r/t before the voluntary grounding by JAL and ANA.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 28):
Although its possible JL will continue SAN at 3x a week, it becomes problematic given the loads they can carry westbound. The key is whether the flight remains for sale into the later spring and early summer.

Of course. We all (I asume) hope that the issues with the 787 will be solved before such decisions by the cx become necessary. In the meantime, I'm sure JL continues to study the viability of long-term use of the T7 out of SAN should that eventually be the only reasonable alternative to cancelling the route. (Or perhaps they might even be considering a temporary but longer-term solution to be a tag-on to an LA or SF flight to keep the JL presence alive in San Diego until the nonstop can be re-started.)

bb

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: FreshSide3
Posted 2013-01-31 13:48:07 and read 4832 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 30):

Up until last year, UA flight 875 were run as a change-of-gauge DEN-SEA-NRT, and before that, as a thru 777. It worked in the past.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2013-01-31 13:50:34 and read 4834 times.

If UA does cancel the launch of DEN-NRT, I know that there is a small chance of that ever happening. I wonder what could UA place the 787 in. IAH-SCL, IAH-NRT frequency or an EWR international flight. EWR should get a 787.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-01-31 14:11:59 and read 4797 times.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 33):
If UA does cancel the launch of DEN-NRT, I know that there is a small chance of that ever happening. I wonder what could UA place the 787 in. IAH-SCL, IAH-NRT frequency or an EWR international flight. EWR should get a 787

United is not canceling DEN-NRT, the flight would probably be postponed if the 787's are still grounded. So no United will not be placing the 787 on IAH-SCL, and the IAH-NRT flight fills the sCO 777 with no problem. As far 787's on a international flight out of EWR I think it will be a few years before EWR sees the 787 for international service United simply will not have enough for the first year or two to support international flying out of EWR on the 787.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-01-31 15:03:04 and read 4642 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
SAN-NRT began December 2 and we saw 26 r/t before the voluntary grounding by JAL and ANA.

Ok, the point still remains: JAL has already been operating the routes (be it for the last month or the last 10 months) , and it's harder to suddenly cancel a nonstop that's been operating since April or December 2012 than it is to delay the launch of a new route. Airlines have delayed or cancelled planned launches of routes many times in the past and it's never really hurt them.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-01-31 15:24:47 and read 4591 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 25):

can DEN-NRT be run with a 2-class 763?

not profitably, no !

Combine the length of the sector involved, 5029 nm, with the altitude of DEN, 5300ft, and the 763 is not well placed to operate the flight. Assuming a Standard day, and PW4062 engines, the MTOW would need to be reduced by 20,000 lbs just to get off the ground at DEN.

Thenoflyzone

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: Concordski
Posted 2013-01-31 17:01:01 and read 4480 times.

I have a ATL-DEN-NRT ticket in May and I'd be really disappointed If I'm rerouted ATL-DEN-SFO-NRT, ATL-DEN-SEA-NRT. I would pay more to have a 1 stop routing over 2 stops and connection times would be really tight on the above reroutings. If the route doesn't come to be, any chance UA would let me choose to go through ORD, IAD, IAH instead as 1 stops?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2013-01-31 17:41:33 and read 4381 times.

Quoting Concordski (Reply 37):
If the route doesn't come to be, any chance UA would let me choose to go through ORD, IAD, IAH instead as 1 stops?

I would contact UA in April and discuss it with them. There's no reason to do a two stop solution when you can go via ORD or EWR or IAH or even SFO.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-02-01 08:59:46 and read 3967 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 38):

I would contact UA in April and discuss it with them. There's no reason to do a two stop solution when you can go via ORD or EWR or IAH or even SFO.

Or maybe they'll take pity and even put you on the nonstop on DL?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: N104UA
Posted 2013-02-01 14:17:49 and read 3784 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 39):
Or maybe they'll take pity and even put you on the nonstop on DL?

Not unless there are no seats on any UA plane.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: captainstefan
Posted 2013-02-01 18:17:09 and read 3593 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 38):
There's no reason to do a two stop solution when you can go via ORD or EWR or IAH or even SFO.

SFO would require two stops or travel on another airline. I can't remember how long it's been since UA flew nonstop ATL-SFO.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-01 18:52:45 and read 3533 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 5):
They won't run this route without the 787 given the economic factors involved. There isn't sufficient demand/yield to warrant a 777 a/c and the 767 can't run this route.

Does UA already fly DEN-ANC year around or seasonal? Is there a market for that?
If the answers are yes, then DEN-ANC-NRT temporary B767 may make sense, specially if UA is able to connect ANC with Asia and promotes that link. UA B757 may be out of the question.
However, eastbound, NRT-DEN passengers would have to go thru ANC port-of-entry in order to continue to DEN.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: malaysia
Posted 2013-02-01 20:29:22 and read 3410 times.

I thought originally TWA was going to put a 762 on STL-NRT so can maybe CO 762 on DEN-NRT?

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-02-02 17:17:34 and read 2900 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
I wouldn't be so sure that UA will just ignore the bookings that already exist on the DEN-NRT route and anger more customers than they've already managed to do over the last year or so! I wouldn't be surprised to see them take the high road and sub another a/c on the route and start it when it's scheduled to start.

Do not forget that UA had to go back to the 772 on LAX-NRT so they can fill some of the seats with passengers that might have taken DEN-NRT. Only UA knows how many O&D passengers are at DEN. Many of them could be connecting and they can simply shift the connection to LAX.

Most new routes take a little time to get established so UA likely has less to lose on a route that has yet to start. Besides, out of DEN there are not too many non-stops to Asia, so the Denver area may grumble but they do not have a lot of alternatives.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-03 14:19:19 and read 2525 times.

There's been an update on another airline site (that I'm reluctant to link here for concern of getting deleted when I linked to this site previously) that UA has extended its 787 international service cancellations to March 1st. This only at present includes IAH-AMS, IAH-LOS, and LAX-NRT.

So..... at this point, nothing yet on DEN-NRT. Hopefully, the difficulties with the 787 may be cleared up by then, where there is still almost two months time, and the plane will become ungrounded.

My bad, but I haven't been following the threads and numerous posts here on the 787 grounding, but seriously, how long will it take to figure out how to change the batteries? I know that it's probably somewhat more complicated than that, and that passenger safety is the utmost concern, but with probably half of Boeing's engineers and then some and all of the other specialists on this, and costs probably into millions of dollars a day...... is this grounding really going to go on indefinitely?

  

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: sonomaflyer
Posted 2013-02-04 08:51:34 and read 2230 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 45):
My bad, but I haven't been following the threads and numerous posts here on the 787 grounding, but seriously, how long will it take to figure out how to change the batteries?

You might want to follow the threads on the issue. The consensus on the issue is they are looking at electrical issues besides just the batteries. That is a VERY LONG story cut short but manufacturing defects in the two affected batteries was the cheap and easy way out of this mess - its unlikely to be that simple given the delay to date and the fact this a/c is unlikely to resume revenue service for many weeks to come.

Topic: RE: Will UA Run DEN-NRT Without 787?
Username: steex
Posted 2013-02-04 09:01:56 and read 2212 times.

Quoting Concordski (Reply 37):
I have a ATL-DEN-NRT ticket in May and I'd be really disappointed If I'm rerouted ATL-DEN-SFO-NRT, ATL-DEN-SEA-NRT. I would pay more to have a 1 stop routing over 2 stops and connection times would be really tight on the above reroutings. If the route doesn't come to be, any chance UA would let me choose to go through ORD, IAD, IAH instead as 1 stops?

I think the odds are very slim they would re-accommodate you on a 2-stop routing in the first place. They're going to assume you were trying to get to NRT in a fairly convenient fashion, not that you were dying to connect in DEN, so they'll make no effort to maintain the DEN leg.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/