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Topic: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-17 13:07:07 and read 21295 times.

Makes sense if he can turn around and sell his shares for more than $77 million to an investor like Ethiad.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...isher-sbi/articleshow/17653253.cms

Quote:
Vijay Mallya is ready to infuse Rs 425 crore($77 million) into the airline and restart its limited operations as soon as DGCA gives a go-ahead, the lead lender to the grounded carrier said today.

Acharya also said Mallya did not ask for any fresh lending, saying the promised Rs 425 crore will come from his own resources. He also said that Mallya did not reveal the name of investors/airlines that he is in discussion with.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-17 20:54:21 and read 21148 times.

Earlier in the day Jet AirwaysBSE 1.34 % surged nearly 5 per cent to hit its highest level in nearly two years to Rs 636.70 on hopes Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways will buy a stake in the carrier. A business daily reported on Monday that Etihad may decide as early as this week whether it will invest in Jet Airways or in grounded rival Kingfisher Airlines, citing two people familiar with the matter.

From a link noting lenders refuse to loan IT any more funds:

http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...-airlines/articleshow/17652133.cms


If nothing else, Etihad has managed to get its name out in India!  

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-18 00:19:21 and read 21099 times.

Is there a limit on the number of messages on A.net that requires us to start a new thread?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-18 06:09:11 and read 21006 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 2):
Is there a limit on the number of messages on A.net that requires us to start a new thread?

One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule). I hope many of you will keep an eye out on no. of posts and start a new thread when no. of posts have exceeded 200.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-18 06:39:11 and read 20993 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):
One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule)

Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-18 13:59:53 and read 20901 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 4):
Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.

Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-12-18 17:02:02 and read 20879 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 4):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule)
Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.

Being one of the members who spotted the very 1st thread #1 from LAXDESI, I remember that for the initial 20-30 threads they used to switch to the next # after 100 posts......then it was decided that we change at 200, as the numbers began to advance too quickly......makes it easier to read too......beyond 150 or so, you start losing important posts within the thread.....

The thread has matured a lot since the early days......  

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-18 22:55:56 and read 20800 times.

less than 200 posts make thread reading easier.......normally Laxdesi gets the honour of starting the next thread,unless it does not.......

Whats the news on KF now....no announcement on the 18th......31st is the day the AOP needs to be renewed.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-19 08:08:13 and read 20714 times.

India's domestic air passenger traffic shrunk by almost 8% in November.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...-november/articleshow/17680349.cms

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.

  

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
I remember that for the initial 20-30 threads they used to switch to the next # after 100 posts......then it was decided that we change at 200, as the numbers began to advance too quickly......makes it easier to read too......beyond 150 or so, you start losing important posts within the thread.....

At some point A.net changed the rules on country specific threads to a minimum of 200 posts. I didn't notice the rule change and one of the new thread was deleted by the mods as the previous one had not reached 200 posts.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
less than 200 posts make thread reading easier.......normally Laxdesi gets the honour of starting the next thread,unless it does not.......

I would like others to take collective responsibility to start a new thread after 200 posts. It doesn't have to be exactly at 200 posts, but somewhere between 200 and 210 posts will be a good range.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-19 12:10:14 and read 20651 times.

Gopinath set to float new airline next year. Any substance to this story?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...next-year/articleshow/17659124.cms

Quote:
Exactly a decade after he launched India's first low-cost carrier (LCC) Air Deccan and five years after he was forced to sell it off, Captain G R Gopinath is all set to make a comeback with a startup. Three foreign LCCs are learnt to have approached him to take up to 49% stake in the proposed new venture for which he has already applied to the aviation ministry to get a licence. The non-compete agreement Gopinath signed while selling Deccan to Vijay Mallya's now-grounded Kingfisher in 2007 ends on January 28, 2013. Gopinath told TOI on Monday that he will finalize the partner in two to three months and hopes to launch the airline by mid-2013.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-19 18:24:33 and read 20602 times.

Dreamliners make Air India's Delhi-Frankfurt route profitable. Based on the numbers in the article, it costs about $135 million less annually to operate this route with 787 than 777. The 772L has 17 more J and 8 more F seats than 788. AI would have to sell each of these 25 extra F/J seats for about $15,000(one way) to offset the operational cost savings over 788.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...rofitable/articleshow/17685393.cms

Quote:
"The airline is able to save at least Rs 20 lakh per flight after the Dreamliner is deployed. After four long loss-making years, we are making profit on this route now," said a top Air India official, who didn't wish to be identified.

But some commanders are a bit skeptical of the Dreamliner strategy. While some senior AI commanders agree that operational costs may have come down because of the deployment of the Boeing 787s, they argue that revenues too have slipped. "When we compare the Boeing 787 with the Boeing 777s, there's a fuel cost saving of about 17 lakh for a seven hour flight as there is a 12 tonnes less fuel burn per hour on a 787 when you compare it with the 777. But the Boeing 787 has fewer business class seats - 18 against 35 on a 777. So, essentially there's a dip in revenue though the operating cost might have come down. But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-20 05:15:20 and read 20493 times.

So is EY still deciding which of the two girls it is going to bed with?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Ilove747
Posted 2012-12-20 05:19:06 and read 20491 times.

"But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified."

The Senior Commander doesnt really understand profitability. AI have to reduce costs to what revenue they can realistically achieve on that route. The article sort of hints that selling the extra premium seating on the 777's is a problem for AI. Hope some sense prevails at AI HQ.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-20 06:41:44 and read 20464 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
Based on the numbers in the article, it costs about $135 million less annually to operate this route with 787 than 777.

   My numbers were a bit less, I'll have to go sharpen my pencil. Note: I'm talking a figure of say $90 million and not claiming there is not a significant cost difference.

Edit: Is this difference due to the Indian tax on jet fuel? What is the tax rate per gallon/pound/ton?

Either way, it shows the 77L/77E must either be flying long haul or should have been the 77W that has the volume for the revenue. DEL-FRA is simply not a long enough route to 'stretch the legs' of the 77L. Heck, its well within A333 range!

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
AI would have to sell each of these 25 extra F/J seats for about $15,000(one way) to offset the operational cost savings over 788.

Not possible. EI simply doesn't have that RASM.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified.

I think now that J is at the level of sales, this individual is upset that there are not available seats. If the seats were not sold, there is no 'dip in revenue.' Since pilots have an income incentive to fly the 777, they will justify the plane when it is a money loser.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
So is EY still deciding which of the two girls it is going to bed with?

I think EY is trying to get the cost of the preferred one down...

Lightsaber

[Edited 2012-12-20 06:59:44]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-20 07:51:28 and read 20419 times.

Quoting Ilove747 (Reply 12):
The Senior Commander doesnt really understand profitability. AI have to reduce costs to what revenue they can realistically achieve on that route.

Indeed

Thankfully, it is not in the job description of a pilot to understand revenue management functions  
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
Edit: Is this difference due to the Indian tax on jet fuel? What is the tax rate per gallon/pound/ton?

Tax rate is ridiculously high. Depending on the state, it can range between 20 and 35%.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-20 11:13:44 and read 20370 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):

EY is probably thinking about how not to waste its money.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-20 20:35:04 and read 20286 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):
Tax rate is ridiculously high. Depending on the state, it can range between 20 and 35%.

Thank you. A 35% tax 'closes the gap' so to speak. I'm just having trouble believing India has done that to its airlines. That handicaps their airlines on long haul.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: brahmin
Posted 2012-12-20 20:57:48 and read 20273 times.

The Senior Commander should know that AI cannot sell a single seat while he is on strike. He should keep to his flying and shut his mouth.

AI should make DEL their aircrew base so that AI does not have to ferry crew to Delhi and spend on hotels..

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-21 01:07:02 and read 20230 times.

Quoting brahmin (Reply 17):

AI should make DEL their aircrew base so that AI does not have to ferry crew to Delhi and spend on hotels..

Thats what smart Airlines do.....Base the crew in their Hometown where maximum possible, also creating Company guest houses help.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-21 01:37:09 and read 20216 times.

Given the above discussion, just FYI, there is a gap between ATF prices for international and domestic services. Certain taxes are not applicable on international services.

Prices taken from IOCL website

Prices in Rs/kl for ATF for domestic ops

Applicable from: December 01, 2012

Delhi 67709.12
Kolkata 75166.19
Mumbai 68392.80
Chennai 71775.03

Prices in $/kl for ATF for international ops

Applicable from: December 01, 2012

Delhi 951.48
Kolkata 996.78
Mumbai 952.33
Chennai 953.19

At today's USD:INR exchange rate of 1:55.12 that means ATF costs Rs 52445.58/kl for international operations, which is by my math 29% per cent more - basically no local sales tax or various cess items.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Karan69
Posted 2012-12-21 06:50:33 and read 20146 times.

Thanks a lot for that cricket,

Much appreciate the figures

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-21 23:53:10 and read 19993 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
Thank you. A 35% tax 'closes the gap' so to speak. I'm just having trouble believing India has done that to its airlines. That handicaps their airlines on long haul.

Foreign flights are exempt from state VAT and central sales tax. I am not sure about the excise duty. Indian Oil has a page showing domestic and international prices in Rs. and USD per Kilo-litre. There is a small doubt. IOCL site shows price to "foreign airlines" but I am reasonably sure it applies to "foreign flights"

http://www.iocl.com/Products/ATFInternationalPrices.aspx http://www.iocl.com/Products/ATFDomesticPrices.aspx

This is based on the premise that taxes should not be exported. Cricket, you can please check and confirm, but I think this is part of the WTO requirements.

Sorry for a long explanation, but laws are convoluted. There are two different sets of taxes. One is Federal (Central in India) and one state.

Federal Taxes will include customs duty on the imports whether it be crude, or a finished product. Imports will also pay a countervailing duty (CVD) which is equal to the rate of excise duty, a manufacturing tax charged on domestic production. Imports are also subject to Special Additional Duty, aptly abbreviated to SAD, which is equal to the rate of the state VAT payable in the state in which the goods have landed for clearance. However, re-sellers/traders are allowed to claim this amount back, since they will pay VAT when they re-sell the product. For interstate sales there is a Central Sales Tax which is equal to the rate of VAT charged in the originating or destined state, whichever is higher.

This CVD+SAD is to make the taxation on imports equal to what gets charged on a domestic product, for a level playing field.

So if someone imports ATF in finished form they will pay Customs+CVD+SAD. If a refinery imports crude and cracks it domestically, they will pay customs in the crude and then excise duty + State VAT or Central Sales Tax (for interstate sales) on the ATF.

Another significant reason for ATF to be high is that the oil marketing companies (OMCs) like Indian Oil, et. al., who are bleeding due to the government's populist profligacy on kerosene and diesel, charge a whopping 15%~20% profit margin on ATF which the government is happy to let them, since flying, in their eyes, is a luxury for the rich.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):
Thankfully, it is not in the job description of a pilot to understand revenue management functions

Oh, but it is Rohit, cost management absolutely is. Ask any pilot from IndiGo or RyanAir on how tight their leashes are. From the flight characteristics (routing, altitude, continuous descent, etc.) there is a constant competition amongst pilots in the world on who uses the least fuel. Most airlines in India today taxi on one engine, after landing, for fuel savings.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.

Thanks Rohit.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-22 06:08:55 and read 19915 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 21):
Oh, but it is Rohit, cost management absolutely is. Ask any pilot from IndiGo or RyanAir on how tight their leashes are. From the flight characteristics (routing, altitude, continuous descent, etc.) there is a constant competition amongst pilots in the world on who uses the least fuel. Most airlines in India today taxi on one engine, after landing, for fuel savings.

"how tight their leashes..."

Precisely my point. Management sets SOP, pilots carry it out. Certainly, I'd hope that most understand basic economics (if I use less fuel, the fuel cost will be less), but the comment he made clearly shows that he doesn't understand the revenue generation issues AI faces. Just because a seat is there, doesn't mean it will be filled.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-23 02:43:49 and read 19771 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 22):

Dont forget how use of TR during taxing, single engine taxi to bay,slow taxying speeds and minimum use of breaks matter too.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-23 20:12:53 and read 19639 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 22):
Just because a seat is there, doesn't mean it will be filled.

I have a serious question and I'm not sure how to ask it... There has been discussion here on how AI gives seats to political influence. Does having fewer J seats DEL-FRA mean that AI has a chance to sell them first? If the added seats had to be given away an now all the seats (or most) are sold, it is a benefit to cut costs if it is revenue neutral. I speculate that AI hasn't lost any revenue. Not from lack of demand, but lack of demand from customers who had to pay (couldn't use political influence for free seats).

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 21):
Foreign flights are exempt from state VAT and central sales tax.

Thank you. Then the gap opens and I'm calculating a narrow cost difference between the 788 and 77L. Hmmm...   

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Karan69
Posted 2012-12-24 23:10:02 and read 19567 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):

sadly with AI this will never stop, a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.

The problem with AI is because of their unionized work force and their "nothing can happen to us" attitude there are multiple cases where they refuse Revenue passengers a seat in order to accommodate sub load passengers, such a thing does not even happen with Biman

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2012-12-25 00:43:03 and read 19503 times.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25):
refuse Revenue passengers a seat in order to accommodate sub load passengers

LOL..... so pax with revenue potential are the real subloaders on AI..... real shame.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2012-12-25 01:03:06 and read 19722 times.

Not to sidetrack the extremely interesting discussion going on ..but I had a quick question. Just landed in MAA a coupla hours ago and saw both the AI 332s there (IWB was just taking off) ..any idea what routes they operate ex MAA? Thanks!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-25 03:28:54 and read 19706 times.

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 27):

The AI 332s are frequently used as a replacement for the Dreamliner. Also used on the Haj routes. Smell like flying lavatories.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2012-12-25 10:30:29 and read 19590 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 28):
The AI 332s are frequently used as a replacement for the Dreamliner. Also used on the Haj routes. Smell like flying lavatories.

Thanks for that info, will certainly not venture on the 332s then   . Still haven't managed to get on the AI 787 yet, how often do they get yanked from the domestic runs? How much longer will they fly domestic?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-26 01:05:19 and read 19458 times.

The Aviation Minister has expressed doubts over the revival plan that KIngfisher Airlines has submitted to the DGCA.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/1...ines-funding-idINDEE8BP04520121226

Frankly, little surprise there, I have a feeling that they were backing on a quick infusion of funds by a foreign partner, but Etihad seems to be taking its own sweet time. Plus, Ajit Singh's comments ought to be seen as a fact that he has a feeling that EY will eventually invest in 9W, because, if for no other fact, Jet Airways is a going, operating company. It will be interesting to see whether any other airlines look at the Indian market, but I still feel that it will be cheaper to start a new airline than revive Kingfisher. Mallya has burned so many bridges with aircraft manufacturers, leasing companies, banks, suppliers and even politicians by now that I personally doubt KFA will ever fly again.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-26 10:26:25 and read 19344 times.

Jet Airways set to fly Mangalore-Dubai from January 3.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...january-3/articleshow/17769475.cms

Quote:
Private carrier Jet Airways today said it will launch a direct flight service between Mangalore and Dubai from January 3.

The proposed flight will operate six times a week with a Boeing 737-800 aircraft having 170 Economy seats, the airline said in statement.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: 9w748capt
Posted 2012-12-26 12:01:19 and read 19328 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 31):

Do you know how service is on 9W flights to the ME? I might fly 9W on BOM-AUH as part of an itinerary involving EY and AA on the way back in March. Some cool itineraries on AA.com - BOM-AUH-MAN-ORD   an a.nutter's dream!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: blrBird
Posted 2012-12-26 20:37:00 and read 19251 times.

Does anyone know when SQ switched 772/773 to 333 on SIN-MAA route?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Karan69
Posted 2012-12-27 03:22:30 and read 19189 times.

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 29):

The 332s are scheduled to do double daily MAA-SIN and single daily BOM-SIN with random domestic runs in between

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-27 03:54:30 and read 19169 times.

Noticed even VT-OBE parked in a dusty and poor state at Apron L along with two other KF A320/321s.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-28 02:13:10 and read 19006 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 28):
The AI 332s are frequently used as a replacement for the Dreamliner. Also used on the Haj routes. Smell like flying lavatories.

Not anymore  

They were sent in for heavy cleaning before Christmas-New Year holiday season.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-28 05:43:46 and read 18936 times.

Effective 18JAN, 9W will launch a second daily flight between DEL and DXB. With this 9W will operate 42 weekly flights out of DXB to India.

9W 546 DEL - DXB 1115 1330
9W 545 DXB - DEL 1425 1855

Aircraft: B737-800

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ai-flight/articleshow/17797148.cms

[Edited 2012-12-28 05:46:18]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-28 06:02:13 and read 18928 times.

According to the GDS, Effective 18JAN, WY will increase DEL and MAA frorm daily to double daily each on the B738.

Next in line are GOI and IXE.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-29 01:18:29 and read 18735 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 37):
With this 9W will operate 42 weekly flights out of DXB to India.

Something wrong with this number Ojas. 9W already had 5 daily to DXB (4 BOM 1 DEL) when they added 6 weekly IXE-DXB = 41. Now second daily DEL-DXB will make it 48. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am basing on the IXE-DXB flight announcement press release.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-29 06:11:08 and read 18652 times.

Yes it is indeed 48 weekly, I had not counted the IXE - DXB flight, my bad.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-30 08:07:19 and read 18453 times.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25):
just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.

What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!? J passengers tend to need to get where they are going rested and on time! That is just wrong... funny and sad at the same time.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 30):

The Aviation Minister has expressed doubts over the revival plan that KIngfisher Airlines has submitted to the DGCA.

As you note, little surprise.  
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 31):
Jet Airways set to fly Mangalore-Dubai from January 3.

Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?

Quoting ojas (Reply 37):

Effective 18JAN, 9W will launch a second daily flight between DEL and DXB. With this 9W will operate 42 weekly flights out of DXB to India.

Have the permissions suddenly opened up?   I would expect 9W to launch at least a third flight to have one plane in each of EK's major waves. The four flights from Mumbai make sense.



Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2012-12-30 20:31:22 and read 18295 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?

Probably want to ramp up DXB operations before going to bed with EY.... coz then they might have to focus on AUH...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-30 22:58:41 and read 18248 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):

What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!?

People who aren't politicians/politicians' friends?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
J passengers tend to need to get where they are going rested and on time!

And AI's product usually delivers that... 81% OTP, comfortable seats...

Whether the customer is paying AI or AI is paying the customer isn't irrelevant...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?

No. The time between 9W announcing its intention to serve the route and permission being granted was less than a month.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):

Have the permissions suddenly opened up?

No.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Nimish
Posted 2012-12-31 01:30:29 and read 18199 times.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25):
sadly with AI this will never stop, a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.

Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: na
Posted 2012-12-31 01:39:26 and read 18224 times.

In the past 10 days I had 3 domestic flights in India, one with a Spice Jet 738, the others with A320s from Indigo and Go Air. All planes were less than 12 months old.
My verdict: Go Air no. 1, Indigo 2 and Spice Jet 3. In the densest LCC configuration the narrower 737 cant compete anymore, at least not for someone of my size. The Spice Jet 737 was a torture, the tightest seat I ever had.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2012-12-31 02:17:05 and read 18188 times.

Quoting na (Reply 45):
My verdict: Go Air no. 1,

Wadias will be happy to see this. Atleast it apears slowly and steadily Go Air is getting its act together and becoming a player of repute.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-31 03:32:59 and read 18160 times.

Quoting na (Reply 45):
The Spice Jet 737 was a torture, the tightest seat I ever had.

Are you referring on basis of seat pitch/leg room or seat width.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-31 22:11:24 and read 17990 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Have the permissions suddenly opened up?   I would expect 9W to launch at least a third flight to have one plane in each of EK's major waves. The four flights from Mumbai make sense.

9W is using the existing rights to DXB, nothing new has been granted to them per se. 9W are allowed 42 weekly flights to DXB and were operating the same with HYD, MAA, DEL and 3 daily to BOM. It's just different cities and additional frequencies to existing one's that has changed.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?

Same as above, however IXE - DXB was an airport specific issue where it was declared "international" just a couple of months ago and 9W launched this route.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-31 22:18:22 and read 17977 times.

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...-rejig-routes-to-singapore/497371/

6E will replace BOM/DEL - SIN to HYD/MAA - SIN. So Singapore is not being terminated, it's being replaced by HYD and MAA.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-31 22:21:24 and read 17984 times.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 44):
Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?

They have... Hence the "once" in OP.

Freeloaders are still there, mostly powerful political figures, but there are a lot more restrictions now. Even the spouses of employees have a tough time getting tickets now...

Quoting na (Reply 45):
In the past 10 days I had 3 domestic flights in India, one with a Spice Jet 738, the others with A320s from Indigo and Go Air. All planes were less than 12 months old.
My verdict: Go Air no. 1, Indigo 2 and Spice Jet 3. In the densest LCC configuration the narrower 737 cant compete anymore, at least not for someone of my size. The Spice Jet 737 was a torture, the tightest seat I ever had.

I would tend to agree. I flew G8 for the first time on Sunday, and was very impressed. Definitely a step above 6E and SG 737s.

However, I'd say that the SG Q400s are the most comfortable aircraft in the fleet of Indian LCC's fleets. I also love IX's padding - very generous for Y.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-01-01 01:26:53 and read 17935 times.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25):
a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.

If they are subloaders, they are checked-in 10 minutes prior to closure of check-in, wherein a revenue passenger will not come in for a last minute ticket (and that too with AI). I doubt if 32 revenue passengers were ditched to accommodate this entourage. Not that I'm saying AI doesn't ditch revenue passengers for sub loaders at all, however that is done in a calculative manner.

And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat, I do not see anything wrong in it, or any content which should shock member lightsaber so much.

[Edited 2013-01-01 01:28:20]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: na
Posted 2013-01-01 06:53:39 and read 17918 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 47):
Are you referring on basis of seat pitch/leg room or seat width.

On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes. Flying on an LCC in densest configuration, at least from now on the 737 is a no-go for me, the A320 at least offers wider seats so a minimum of movement is possible. In the two months old Spice Jet 738 I couldnt move at all in my tight window seat, it felt even tighter than Ryanair. Another 737 letdown: its windows are located too low, even a bit lower than on the A320 (where they are also too low, more suitable for kids than men).

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-01-01 10:41:14 and read 17825 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):

What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!?

People who aren't politicians/politicians' friends?

But I was replying to them getting bumped by those politicians and the politician's friends. Who would pay for J when there is more than a more than 2% risk of getting bumped?

Quoting ojas (Reply 48):
IXE - DXB was an airport specific issue where it was declared "international" just a couple of months ago and 9W launched this route.

Now that is interesting. How quickly are airports in India be 'declared international?'

Quoting ojas (Reply 49):
6E will replace BOM/DEL - SIN to HYD/MAA - SIN. So Singapore is not being terminated, it's being replaced by HYD and MAA.

That seems like a rational route switch by 6E.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-01-01 10:56:33 and read 17797 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 53):
How quickly are airports in India be 'declared international?'

Depends on the political pressure.

But then an airport in India is declared international only after it meets certain standards (runway length, terminal etc etc).

Mangalore airport was declared international in Oct/Nov but has international operations by AIX since 2007.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-01 18:05:12 and read 17704 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 53):
But I was replying to them getting bumped by those politicians and the politician's friends. Who would pay for J when there is more than a more than 2% risk of getting bumped?

There is a 0% chance of getting bumped, except equipment swap. AI does not oversell J.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-01-01 20:15:01 and read 17678 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 51):
And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat, I do not see anything wrong in it, or any content which should shock member lightsaber so much.

Recently on a long weekend in UAE, a certain sector on EK flight had 40+ subloaders.... all made the flight.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-01 22:52:44 and read 17620 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
Quoting AirIndia (Reply 42):
Probably want to ramp up DXB operations before going to bed with EY.... coz then they might have to focus on AUH...

Just to begin the new year on a conspiracy theory.  

Is it possible that MoCA is giving DXB permissions to ensure the Indian side of DXB quota is filled. This way when they do grant permission to EK to go from present 55K seats per week to 89K seats per week, this will deflect criticism of the CAG?

Just a thought for those A.netters with ïnside" knowledge to discuss.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-01 23:03:37 and read 17607 times.

Quoting na (Reply 52):
On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes. Flying on an LCC in densest configuration, at least from now on the 737 is a no-go for me, the A320 at least offers wider seats so a minimum of movement is possible.

Boeing 737s have 17" seat and depending on airline seat pitch is typically 31" for LCC and 32" or 33" for legacy. Total 189 seats. FR reduces to 30" but no increase in seats.

Airbus A320 is 18" seat width and typically 30" pitch in LCC. U2 is 29", though they get no benefit in additional seats. They have 183 seats while 6E has 180 like all other LCC. U2 gets the additional 3 seats by removing one of the two rear lavatories.

EK 777s which have 10 abreast seating are also at 17" seat width though many airlines with 9 abreast like BA do not offer wider seats by default.

www.Seatguru.com is a great resource. Mostly accurate.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: karan69
Posted 2013-01-01 23:32:24 and read 17600 times.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 44):
Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?

Yes things got a lot better after Jadhav had taken charge, he made some very good operational sound decisions , however staff hated him and without any political support he got the boot from the job,

Sad if you ask he was the one person who would provide AI some stability

The flight I mention was a JFK-BOM sector, a route no longer operated by the carrier and Jadhav rightfully axing it


Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 50):
Even the spouses of employees have a tough time getting tickets now...

That is not true , i have seen recent i.e. 2012 cases where "spouses", are given seats well in advance

Quoting ojas (Reply 51):
And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat,

Apparently the flight was full, the shocking bit is not 32 staff tickets, but 32 J Staff tickets

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 50):
However, I'd say that the SG Q400s are the most comfortable aircraft in the fleet of Indian LCC's fleets.

While the q400 is a good aircraft , much more silent and better cabin appeal than the ATRs, the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied

Quoting ojas (Reply 49):
So Singapore is not being terminated, it's being replaced by HYD and MAA.

The major VFR traffic to SIN is from MAA , so it makes much more sense to target these cities for a so called LCC like 6E

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-01-01 23:42:53 and read 17590 times.

Quoting karan69 (Reply 59):
but 32 J Staff tickets

Either ways, how would it matter?

Whether they were entitled for Y and got into J is something to be investigated (that is if there is an iota of intention to do so by the airline). However, if the J class was empty and they accommodated 32 staff travelers; no big deal. Upper management families are entitled to J class sub load. So accepting 32 J class subload travelers isn't really that alarming. Qatar Airways has once taken 57 staff out of Mumbai.

It could also be the case where revenue J class passenger's were upgraded to First and the entourage was taken in J? I know for a fact on the EWR flight the chances of bumping into F from J are very high.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-01-02 01:47:55 and read 17565 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 57):
Is it possible that MoCA is giving DXB permissions to ensure the Indian side of DXB quota is filled. This way when they do grant permission to EK to go from present 55K seats per week to 89K seats per week, this will deflect criticism of the CAG?

That was among Ajit Singhs first few statements after becoming MoCA that let the indian carriers start using their quota....

Quote:
The government has decided not to sign any more Air Services Agreement (ASA) with other nations till Indian carriers exhaust their quota under the existing agreements. ASA decides the quota of seat allocation to airlines from other countries.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/-n...dian-carriers-use-up-quota-/997882

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-02 02:01:58 and read 17537 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 51):
I doubt if 32 revenue passengers were ditched to accommodate this entourage.

Agreed.

Quoting na (Reply 52):
On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes.

seems like a Type issue .....

Quoting karan69 (Reply 59):
the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied

Any pics?.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-02 07:55:46 and read 17450 times.

Quoting karan69 (Reply 59):
Yes things got a lot better after Jadhav had taken charge, he made some very good operational sound decisions , however staff hated him and without any political support he got the boot from the job,

Sad if you ask he was the one person who would provide AI some stability

The flight I mention was a JFK-BOM sector, a route no longer operated by the carrier and Jadhav rightfully axing it

I think Nandan has done a better job than Jadhav could have dreamed of. Being able to command support of workgroups and the government is a critical aspect of the job.

Quoting karan69 (Reply 59):
That is not true , i have seen recent i.e. 2012 cases where "spouses", are given seats well in advance

I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it has gotten far more difficult.

Quoting karan69 (Reply 59):
While the q400 is a good aircraft , much more silent and better cabin appeal than the ATRs, the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied

I didn't find it uncomfortable at all - I liked resting my feet on the beam. My 11th Q400 flight with a window seat was last week, and I have no intention of changing my travel patterns back home to IXE. The Q is just too comfortable and convenient.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: karan69
Posted 2013-01-02 10:52:28 and read 17392 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 58):

Yup Devesh,

Comfort wise

A 9 abreast 787 is a kin to a 10 abreast 77W, just like a 10 abreast 350xwb would be like a 9 abreast 330

320s are defi more comfortable than most 737s

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 62):

Check the post MEL , have posted a pic of the same

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 63):

I like Nandan as well , but he would make a good HR head , IMO he lacks the operational judgement of Jadhav, and the quickness in taking routes

WRt Q400s

Rohit , i guess to each his own,

As I said I liked the aircraft , I found that foot rest odd, ultra convenient if the aisle seat is empty,

If you don't mind me asking how tall and heavy are you, I am nearly 6 feet and 82 kgs, hence my stature makes that footrest rather unnecessary for me

karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: karan69
Posted 2013-01-02 22:21:00 and read 17236 times.

Guys I posted on the Turkish Aviation thread that some sources suggest the 9W has signed a 4 aircraft deal with TK for the 777s, these are the ones that are currently with Thai

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-03 03:17:18 and read 17138 times.

Firstly, Happy New Year to everyone, I was on my annual "offline" vacation. Secondly, my first question of the year.

Anyone here know which lounges in India give access to Priority Pass holders?

And in other news, airport fees at DEL have finally fallen (thank god!), although I wonder what will happen to the fees that passengers have already paid for flights after Jan 1 in advance.

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...regulatory-authority-delhi-airport

And the EY saga continues, I heard on CNBC-TV18 that EY wasn't really interested in taking on Kingfisher's debt burden. Who would have thunk that?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: thenoflyzone
Posted 2013-01-03 06:29:40 and read 17056 times.

Anyone know what is going on with AI and YYZ. They were supposed to resume DEL-YYZ in March, but they have canceled those plans. There is now no planned service resumption date for Toronto.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/03/ai-yyz-mar13update/

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-01-03 06:35:05]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2013-01-03 07:03:50 and read 17025 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 66):
Anyone here know which lounges in India give access to Priority Pass holders?
http://www.prioritypass.com/Lounges/

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-01-03 07:10:25 and read 17052 times.

JAL intertested in Bangalore and Chennai http://japandailypress.com/japan-air...eloping-asia-for-expansion-1716384

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Nimish
Posted 2013-01-03 08:59:24 and read 17004 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 69):
JAL intertested in Bangalore and Chennai http://japandailypress.com/japan-air...16384

Awesome news - though I was selfishly hoping it would be a *A carrier that starts BLR - even UA from it's massive hub at NRT, or ideally NH with their BBJ to get started.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: pnqiad
Posted 2013-01-03 11:22:22 and read 16941 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 66):
And the EY saga continues, I heard on CNBC-TV18 that EY wasn't really interested in taking on Kingfisher's debt burden. Who would have thunk that?

Apparently EY is now in talks with 9W for a stake...

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...th-etihad-315566?pfrom=home-latest

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: brahmin
Posted 2013-01-03 15:26:50 and read 16927 times.

My friend got bumped today, 4 Jan., on AI 191 from BOM to EWR. AI sent them home and said that they might possibly get a seat tomorrow.

My friend is too innocent for this. She is thinking of buying a one-way ticket back to New York.

I have asked her to demand compensation, get upgraded and/or get put on some other airline.

What rights does she have and what should she do?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-03 20:20:30 and read 16840 times.

Quoting karan69 (Reply 64):
WRt Q400s

Rohit , i guess to each his own,

As I said I liked the aircraft , I found that foot rest odd, ultra convenient if the aisle seat is empty,

If you don't mind me asking how tall and heavy are you, I am nearly 6 feet and 82 kgs, hence my stature makes that footrest rather unnecessary for me

I'm 1.8m, 65kgs - not so different...

Quoting brahmin (Reply 72):
My friend got bumped today, 4 Jan., on AI 191 from BOM to EWR. AI sent them home and said that they might possibly get a seat tomorrow.

My friend is too innocent for this. She is thinking of buying a one-way ticket back to New York.

I have asked her to demand compensation, get upgraded and/or get put on some other airline.

What rights does she have and what should she do?

I already responded to this on FT, but I forgot to add: when flying without status always on-line check in, especially during holiday season.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-05 18:19:45 and read 16610 times.

Quoting brahmin (Reply 72):
What rights does she have and what should she do?

DCGA has a CAR (Civil Aviation Requirement) on facilities to be provided to passengers denied boarding or for delayed flights. http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...-on-facilities-to-be-provided.html

Quoting brahmin (Reply 72):
My friend got bumped today, 4 Jan., on AI 191 from BOM to EWR. AI sent them home and said that they might possibly get a seat tomorrow.

Why did she get bumped? What were the reasons given? Are they in writing? Did she meet with a duty manager? Name? Time? i.e. can she prove she was bumped i.e. denied boarding, and not merely a "no-show" as the airline will claim. Sorry to be playing devil's advocate here.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ACT7
Posted 2013-01-06 18:42:58 and read 16438 times.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 67):
Anyone know what is going on with AI and YYZ. They were supposed to resume DEL-YYZ in March, but they have canceled those plans. There is now no planned service resumption date for Toronto.http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/03/ai-yyz-mar13update/Thenoflyzone[Edited 2013-01-03 06:35:05]

It's bizarre. I'm hearing that AI has major issues with that flight starting in Amritsar and has been wanting to get rid of that leg for quite some time. The AI pilot's strike gave them impetus to do so.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-09 23:21:20 and read 16112 times.

Quoting pnqiad (Reply 71):

Apparently EY is now in talks with 9W for a stake...

Amazingly no foreign Airline FDI interests in Indian operators so far materializing......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-01-11 09:13:38 and read 16046 times.

Effective 01MAR, IndiGo Airlines will start daily flights between DXB and TRV. Also on the same day 6E will start it's second flight between BOM and DXB. With this 6E will have 56 weekly flights out of DXB to India.

6E 037 DXB - TRV 1820 2115
6E 038 TRV - DXB 1125 1515

6E 063 BOM - DXB 0835 1025
6E 064 DXB - BOM 1125 1555

Aircraft: A320

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: himmat01
Posted 2013-01-11 22:00:55 and read 15946 times.

Has AI finally got rid of the B777-237LRs? This blog seems to suggest that Aerosvit is acquiring them,

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/blogs/john_dyer/default.aspx


Aerosvit B738 UR-AAN (38119) was ferried from Kiev to Istanbul/Sabiha Gokcen on 10/1 for transfer to Ukraine International as UR-PSE & returned to Kiev on 11/1. UR-AAO (38120) will also transfer to Ukraine International as UR-PSF. All the B763s are to be returned to the lessor & will be replaced by five former Air India B772s, which will join Ukraine International from March onwards.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-01-14 19:43:01 and read 15633 times.

Thread is moving a bit slow.....

From todays news:
QR interested in a spicy meal....

Quote:
Low-cost carrier (LCC) SpiceJet could be the second Indian carrier after Jet Airways to get foreign direct investment from an international airline. The LCC is reportedly in talks with some foreign carriers, with highly-placed sources saying Gulf carrier Qatar Airways being the most likely suitor, and the deal could materialize this quarter.

NG already informed BSE about EY's intentions

Quote:
The aviation ministry has not officially been informed of an impending stake sale in the LCC to a foreign airline, unlike the Jet-Etihad talks which have now been confirmed by Naresh Goyal's carrier to the BSE. "The information we have gathered is that SpiceJet may be selling stake to Qatar Airways but we are waiting for a word from the airline," said a senior official.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-SpiceJet/articleshow/18026790.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: flyhigh@tom
Posted 2013-01-14 20:39:04 and read 15615 times.

Air India back to its games again:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...81.ece?ref=wl_industry-and-economy

  

quote:

In a move that could generate more controversy for the proposed Jet Airways-Etihad deal, Air India has written to the Ministry of Civil Aviation saying that allowing the deal to go through could affect the overall complexion of international air passenger flow to and from India.

/unquote

I thought the FDI limit was 49% i the first place. Neither will AI clean up its house nor will it let any private carrier prosper as well. The *A drama in itself runs like the never ending tele serials of a certain production house in India.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-01-15 01:31:37 and read 15517 times.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 70):

Awesome news - though I was selfishly hoping it would be a *A carrier that starts BLR - even UA from it's massive hub at NRT, or ideally NH with their BBJ to get started.

would UA ever start BLR, seeing as 3 Star carriers (LH, SQ and TG) already service BLR? Moreover, any new news about TK starting BLR? I know last i heard it was HYD and MAA....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Nimish
Posted 2013-01-15 01:56:39 and read 15479 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 81):
Moreover, any new news about TK starting BLR?

I don't think TK has any plans for BLR

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-15 03:54:36 and read 15464 times.

I just flew in and out of CCU; the new terminal seems to have much of the civil work, that is the structure complete but contact gates are just being added and it appeared that work has not even started inside the terminal. Meanwhile in the existing domestic terminal the rush is incredible, security queues are unbearably long and flights get routinely delayed because passengers are stuck in security queues, after having spent a rather painful time on the roads to the airport which are clogged due to infrastructure work on flyovers and the Kolkata Metro improvement.
The new terminal at CCU has missed several deadlines already and it does not appear likely that it will meet its (present) deadline. I personally don't expect the terminal to open before late-2013 at the earliest.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: golfradio
Posted 2013-01-15 10:23:28 and read 15361 times.

Quoting himmat01 (Reply 78):

Thanks for the link. Really interesting news if confirmed. Aerosvit is not doing too well and I am not sure if they are out of bankruptcy. How are they financing this? They cancelled a lot of flights this month.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-01-15 10:37:48 and read 15360 times.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 82):
I don't think TK has any plans for BLR

there was a meeting not too long ago between Turkish and Indian officials; the Turkish side mentioned that TK was looking to expand to CCU, BLR, MAA and HYD

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-16 10:19:42 and read 15149 times.

Quick question - I saw two of the CD (Air India Express) CRJ-700's parked at the domestic hangers in DEL - VT-RJC without both engines and VT-RJD without the left engine and the right engine all taped up. Anyone know the exact status of these aircraft? Here is a picture that I caught from my flight.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg609/kushanmitra/rjc_zps597b7596.jpg

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-01-16 21:55:20 and read 15015 times.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...y-an-hour/articleshow/18055080.cms

wow...this is a doozy, but its AI  .

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-01-16 22:49:01 and read 14970 times.

http://ttgasia.com/article.php?article_id=20269

"Turkish Airlines has also applied for approval to double the number of daily flights it runs from New Delhi and Mumbai. The airline has also applied to operate services to Chennai, Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Kolkata, Ahmedabad and Amritsar."

any insights on this?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: himmat01
Posted 2013-01-16 23:29:37 and read 14941 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 87):

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...y-an-hour/articleshow/18055080.cms

wow...this is a doozy, but its AI  .

I really doubt this story. A pilot even in AI simply cannot overrule the instruction from crew scheduling. Let us assume that she did disobey the instruction, they must have had some other pilot at the airport who would operate the Jodhpur flight, she was scheduled to operate.

He/she could have operated the 2.00 PM flight to DEL.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-01-16 23:31:36 and read 14928 times.

Quoting himmat01 (Reply 89):

I really doubt this story. A pilot even in AI simply cannot overrule the instruction from crew scheduling. Let us assume that she did disobey the instruction, they must have had some other pilot at the airport who would operate the Jodhpur flight, she was scheduled to operate.

He/she could have operated the 2.00 PM flight to DEL.

So TOI is making up a fake story (It is TOI, but still...). ?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-17 04:25:43 and read 14873 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 90):
So TOI is making up a fake story (It is TOI, but still...). ?

It's Mumbai Mirror which originally made this news.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-19 01:23:01 and read 14618 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 90):

So TOI is making up a fake story (It is TOI, but still...). ?

The usual TOI "sources" story  

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: VTORD
Posted 2013-01-19 04:58:08 and read 14586 times.

This is my first post on A.net so please excuse my ignorance.

A year ago I travelled to BOM on DL-AF via CDG and they charged me $60 for my second bag at ORD. I was not charged at BOM. My bro-in-law told me that DGCA does not allow carriers to charge the 2nd bag fee for internationals out of India. Is this rule still in place? My buddy is traveling back after getting married and I guess he has baggage!   He is traveling DL-KL via AMS.

I just booked UA for myself and my ticket states that I will be charged $100 for the second bag in BOM too. I was trying to look up the DGCA website but could not find anything there. Any idea?

Thanks
Ameya

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-19 06:17:16 and read 14541 times.

Quoting VTORD (Reply 93):
My bro-in-law told me that DGCA does not allow carriers to charge the 2nd bag fee for internationals out of India. Is this rule still in place?

This rule was never in place

Quoting VTORD (Reply 93):
I just booked UA for myself and my ticket states that I will be charged $100 for the second bag in BOM too. I was trying to look up the DGCA website but could not find anything there. Any idea?

A3*G will give you 3 bags free. A couple trips to India should do it...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-21 02:37:57 and read 14219 times.

Is VJMs ACJ still flying....as I noticed something similiar storage-parked at VABB on Apron L yesterday.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-22 04:03:26 and read 13999 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 95):

Is VJMs ACJ still flying....as I noticed something similiar storage-parked at VABB on Apron L yesterday.

This was the Business Standard story a few days ago, a lot of controversy around the aircraft. I heard that Mallya has taken a few 6E flights recently

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...sues-order-to-detain-fleet/498512/

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: VTORD
Posted 2013-01-22 16:18:22 and read 13840 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 96):
I heard that Mallya has taken a few 6E flights recently

LOL!   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-23 01:49:47 and read 13762 times.

Interesting Supreme Court ruling on airline fares in India. Airlines will likely now have to lump all the overheads into one consolidated fare, which will definitely be useful for passengers booking tix. That said, I believe that airline fares ought not to be regulated. There is no doubt that in real terms, airline fares are less than half of what they were a decade agao.


http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ai...nsaction-fees-supreme-court-321221

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2013-01-25 09:05:55 and read 13527 times.

Jet Airways expects nearly $300 million for its 24% stake sale to Ethiad. Are slots easily available at Munich?

http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...ng-closer/articleshow/18186783.cms
Quote:
After intense speculation for months, India's largest airline by way of market capitalisation Naresh Goyal's Jet Airways, - is set to announce a deal with Abu-Dhabi based carrier Etihad in the first week of February, sources said.

"Jet Airways' overseas base may even be shifted to Munich from Brussels and a major part of overseas operations would be sourced to and from Abu Dhabi as per the deal," sources added.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: COEWR787
Posted 2013-01-25 10:59:10 and read 13481 times.

So did the President get around to inaugurating the new T2 at CCU on the 24th as was scheduled, or did that slip again?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2013-01-25 17:01:36 and read 13399 times.

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 100):

Oh no it happened on time with a CCU-DEL-LHR AI flight being the first one to operate from there.

But strangely regular ops are still from the old terminals even now.
I just went through CCU last weekend, looked all built up from the outside and indeed very beautiful with the L shaped design, but approach roads are a total mess, and the flyover leading to the new terminal is still not completed yet.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-25 18:07:34 and read 13458 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 101):
Oh no it happened on time with a CCU-DEL-LHR AI flight being the first one to operate from there.

AI021 is CCU-DEL. There is no LHR segment which has anything to do with the flight.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-26 03:20:33 and read 13378 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 96):

Whats the news on this Airline now.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-01-26 03:59:14 and read 13365 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 99):
Jet Airways expects nearly $300 million for its 24% stake sale to Ethiad. Are slots easily available at Munich?

No, but maybe AB has some slots left which 9W can use.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2013-01-26 10:47:15 and read 13274 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 102):
AI021 is CCU-DEL. There is no LHR segment which has anything to do with the flight.

Well I didnt really check flight no, but was saying what I read on one of the incompetent dailies.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-26 17:22:44 and read 13201 times.

Happy Republic Day!


[Edited 2013-01-26 18:04:58]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-28 06:29:10 and read 12960 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 103):
Whats the news on this Airline now.....

I thought some of the CR7's were still being used on regional flights - I do believe that the masses of old CRJ's and E145's can be successfully utilised in India by a small start-up carrier connecting regional hubs.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: flyguy1
Posted 2013-01-28 19:22:28 and read 12826 times.

Saw something on the OAG thread, that 9W is resuming JFK. Is this true?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: 9w748capt
Posted 2013-01-28 21:02:34 and read 12793 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 107):
I thought some of the CR7's were still being used on regional flights - I do believe that the masses of old CRJ's and E145's can be successfully utilised in India by a small start-up carrier connecting regional hubs.

Would this be viable - given their high CASM and high taxes/fuel costs in India - and also that fares in India continue to be probably too low? I would doubt that 50-seat RJs could work in India. Maybe for AI because they don't actually have to turn a profit. Am surprised that more Indian carriers don't have large prop fleets - I'd think those are perfect to connect small/medium sized cities.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-29 04:13:59 and read 12660 times.

Howtrue is this rumour of FedEx partnering a courier company & using FDI domestically.....along with POBC....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-01-29 04:33:08 and read 12659 times.

9W technicians and pilots threaten strike:
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Zv...lack-bands-pilots-call-for-me.html

Non-payment of salaries causing problems here too...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-29 20:47:29 and read 12470 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 110):
Howtrue is this rumour of FedEx partnering a courier company & using FDI domestically.....along with POBC....

Does not FedEx already own Blue Dart or a part of it?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-29 23:16:05 and read 12442 times.

Today's Times of India had an item on AI Cabin Crew in Chicago getting into a fight with cops called in etc., they might get banned from entering the US in the future. If true, what action can AI take and can the Chicago Police charge these folks with anything?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...-US-hotel/articleshow/18246800.cms

That also has a thread of its own btw...

Air India Flight Attendants Nearly Arrested In CHI (by detroitflyer Jan 29 2013 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-01-29 23:41:31]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: himmat01
Posted 2013-01-29 23:41:15 and read 12426 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 112):

Does not FedEx already own Blue Dart or a part of it?

I think DHL partly owns Blue Dart. Blue Dart had some kind of an agreement with FedEx back in the 1990s.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-29 23:43:02 and read 12436 times.

It appears that 'Sexy' is one of the first airlines in the world to take delivery of a sharklet-equipped A320; anyone know the registration?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...rbus-a320/articleshow/18253096.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: flyhigh@tom
Posted 2013-01-29 23:55:29 and read 12423 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 115):
It appears that 'Sexy' is one of the first airlines in the world to take delivery of a sharklet-equipped A320; anyone know the registration?

errr...don't understand the 'sexy' remark for indigo...has it got anything to do with the airline?  

Worldwide air asia first started operating 320s with the sharklets. A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets. True that indigo happens to be the first IAE powered A320 to operate the sharklet version.    (not that i am a major fan of that engine type. pain in the backside to wait for those engines to start unlike the CFM 56   )

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-30 00:38:02 and read 12422 times.

Quoting flyhigh@tom (Reply 116):
errr...don't understand the 'sexy' remark for indigo...has it got anything to do with the airline?  

Their code '6E' was chosen for a reason by Rahul Bhatia, say is fast and you know why all of us in the aviation journalism space call them 'Sexy'

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: flyhigh@tom
Posted 2013-01-30 02:19:59 and read 12383 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 117):
Their code '6E' was chosen for a reason by Rahul Bhatia, say is fast and you know why all of us in the aviation journalism space call them 'Sexy'

yup 6E 6E 6E   got it !!!! LOL
Initially reading your post i thought maybe the new aircraft was registered VT-SXY or maybe they were running some ads on the Indian mass media....

On other news recently in SHJ saw a couple of 6E aircraft and i was thinking finally the Indian carriers have started operating to SHJ and DXB...after all...but was disappointed to know they were just diversions from DXB due to ATC congestion in the DXB airspace itself.

Now this is funny both SHJ and DXB share the same approach controller but very much often than not the controller directs the inbound DXB traffic to enter the hold for 20 mins whereas us going to SHJ get directed to the final approach fix and to maintain high speed. Am pretty sure all the pilots who have operated to SHJ will know what i am saying is the truth.

So if MOCA wants the indian private carriers to increase their flights and seats to the middle east why not start services to SHJ instead of clamoring for the already overcrowded and congested DXB???? DXB and SHJ are just 16 kms apart! i hope 6E and SJ would start SHJ apart from DXB as well.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-30 03:48:24 and read 12346 times.

Apparently VJM hurt his leg in Goa recently, no accurate source, but still a beer in his hand...
http://t.co/wRH0MBvE

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-30 03:50:02 and read 12335 times.

Quoting himmat01 (Reply 114):
I think DHL partly owns Blue Dart. Blue Dart had some kind of an agreement with FedEx back in the 1990s.

Yes. Thanks for correcting me. I meant DHL owning Blue Dart. FedEx since then joined hands with Pafex (Prakash Air Freight Express) and now has its own presence in India.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 115):
It appears that 'Sexy' is one of the first airlines in the world to take delivery of a sharklet-equipped A320; anyone know the registration?

Dada, I am not allowed to toot my own horn, but we were covering the saga of VT-IFH from the time it came out of the FAL. Photos and all, right from being towed out from the FAL.

Quoting flyhigh@tom (Reply 116):
A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets.

Yes. A6-ANO. Next will be GoAir VT-GOL followed by IndiGo VT-IFI. The first A319 Sharklet is getting ready for TACA Airlines.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-01-30 04:41:15 and read 12333 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 111):

Salaries are being paid to 9W staff mid month post 15th.....for many months now.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 112):

Does not FedEx already own Blue Dart or a part of it?
Quoting himmat01 (Reply 114):

I think DHL partly owns Blue Dart. Blue Dart had some kind of an agreement with FedEx back in the 1990s.
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 120):
Yes. Thanks for correcting me. I meant DHL owning Blue Dart. FedEx since then joined hands with Pafex (Prakash Air Freight Express) and now has its own presence in India.

Blue Dart is Owned by DHL.

FeDex is planning a domestic start up cargo Airline with PAFEX soon too.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-30 04:49:07 and read 12324 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 120):
Dada, I am not allowed to toot my own horn, but we were covering the saga of VT-IFH from the time it came out of the FAL. Photos and all, right from being towed out from the FAL.

Quoting flyhigh@tom (Reply 116):
A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets.

Yes. A6-ANO. Next will be GoAir VT-GOL followed by IndiGo VT-IFI. The first A319 Sharklet is getting ready for TACA Airlines.

Cheers, will read your a bit more often Dev

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-01-30 10:02:58 and read 12256 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 122):
Cheers, will read your a bit more often Dev

Thanks. Look forward to your critical analysis and comments. BTW, GoAir has taken delivery of its first A320 Sharklet VT-GOL today.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-01-31 02:54:56 and read 12087 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 123):
Thanks. Look forward to your critical analysis and comments. BTW, GoAir has taken delivery of its first A320 Sharklet VT-GOL today.

Interesting, been hearing rumours that as Go keeps increasing their fleet they might get permission to operate some international sectors soon...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-01 21:50:18 and read 11879 times.

This story appeared in Times of India today claiming that Paramount Airways MD M Thiagrajan has met officials from the MoCA and DGCA and claims that he has the funds to start flying again. IIRC Paramount had defaulted on dues, particularly to leasing companies and GECAS had got two of their planes deregistered. I believe one E-175 is still lying about at MAA. Anyway, more details here would be appreciated.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...fly-again/articleshow/18301972.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-02-02 07:29:17 and read 11767 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 125):
This story appeared in Times of India today claiming that Paramount Airways MD M Thiagrajan has met officials from the MoCA and DGCA and claims that he has the funds to start flying again. IIRC Paramount had defaulted on dues, particularly to leasing companies and GECAS had got two of their planes deregistered. I believe one E-175 is still lying about at MAA. Anyway, more details here would be appreciated.

There was something reported about Paramount winning a lawsuit and using that money to restart IIRC...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-02 07:54:40 and read 11847 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 126):
There was something reported about Paramount winning a lawsuit and using that money to restart IIRC...

That was the first case against GECAS IIRC, but that was back in 2009/10. Even then, this restart will involve A321's and ATR's apparently

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-02-02 08:04:59 and read 11832 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 127):
That was the first case against GECAS IIRC, but that was back in 2009/10. Even then, this restart will involve A321's and ATR's apparently

No, I was talking about the more recent LCIA ruling.
http://www.business-standard.com/ind...ht-be-revivedlawsuit-money/496569/

1650 crore is enough to start an airline for sure...

[Edited 2013-02-02 08:11:23]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-02 12:32:42 and read 11810 times.

Returned to BLR on BA yesterday early a.m. and saw a billboard on NH 7 for some kind of an air show next week. Can anyone kindly enlighten me about this? Will it be fun to attend? Thanks in advance.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-02-02 14:06:32 and read 11767 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 129):
Returned to BLR on BA yesterday early a.m. and saw a billboard on NH 7 for some kind of an air show next week. Can anyone kindly enlighten me about this?

https://www.aeroindia.in/Default.aspx

Admission policy is as follows: https://www.aeroindia.in/ADMISSIONPOLICY.pdf

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-02 17:04:01 and read 11706 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 130):

Thank you for that! I looked at the website and will try to figure out how to get a ticket for the weekend.

Regards

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-02-04 11:06:36 and read 11436 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 131):

Dont forget the pictures...... 

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-02-04 12:21:01 and read 11409 times.

Didn't notice this one.

According to the GDS, Oman Air has also increased MCT - HYD flights from daily to double daily effective February. Total weekly flights by WY to India stands at 96 flights per week covering 10 destinations.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-04 20:00:05 and read 11303 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 132):

I will be using my smartphone to take pictures   Planning to go on Thursday.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-02-06 04:28:36 and read 11111 times.

Looks like Quikjet is lanning on starting finally.

http://www.quikjet.co.in/

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-02-09 03:20:41 and read 10894 times.

Where is the AERO-INDIA 2013 thread on this site...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-09 08:01:00 and read 10846 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 136):
Where is the AERO-INDIA 2013 thread on this site...

Man, I hear you. I was hoping some of our BLR based a.netters would post pictures at least.

So I did attend the show and had a great time. The airshows were really breathtaking, starting with a Tiger Moth. The most impressive was the Su-30 aerobatics, closely followed by the Rafale display. The Red Bull team was great, as was the Rudra(?) helo flying backwards.

There were plenty of attendees, and I was very impressed by the sharp turnout of the IAF and IA officers. Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders at a very young age! I think the defence of India is in good hands.

Interesting to see the domination of the booths by Israel Aircraft Industries and the various ex Soviet firms, like United Aircraft.

The only downside was the endless loop of Kenny G on the loudspeakers and the Air Marshal's blue Ambassador with three stars parked next to the British High Commissioner's sleek BMW.

I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-02-09 10:56:23 and read 10818 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 137):
I think the defence of India is in good hands.

Undoubtly.

Quoting comorin (Reply 137):
The only downside was the endless loop of Kenny G on the loudspeakers

Surprised ....I thought it would be Indian film music  

I've seen folks post great pics...but not out here unfortunately.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-10 05:36:22 and read 10698 times.

All -- I am looking for int'l pax traffic numbers for Indian airports, esp CCU. Any tips on where I can get this info? Specifically looking for number of int'l pax handle by CCU in 2011 or 2012. Thanks.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: VTORD
Posted 2013-02-10 06:56:27 and read 10676 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 139):
I am looking for int'l pax traffic numbers for Indian airports

You might find what you are looking for at Indiastat.com but there is a pretty decent membership fee associated to actually get the information:

http://www.indiastat.com/transport/3...tofindia19982012/454470/stats.aspx

The AAI website is nothing to write home about.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-02-11 00:01:34 and read 10531 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 137):
British High Commissioner's sleek BMW

i thought the british ambassadors and commissioners were mandated to drive around in Brit cars. The ambassador gets a Rolls Royce, the high commissioners shd have Jags atleast.........

Quoting comorin (Reply 137):
I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.

BLRAviation should have some pics as tweeted/blogged by them recently.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-11 01:23:29 and read 10494 times.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 141):

Yes, the British HC in Delhi has a vintage Roller. The BMW in Bangalore had a Union Jack on it - just denotes the car he is traveling in. High Commissioners and Ambassadors have the same diplomatic rank, the former title is used for Commonwealth countries.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2013-02-11 02:12:48 and read 10484 times.

any updates on new routes from BLR? I seem to recall that Virgin Atlantic wanted to start a route from BLR to LHR...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-02-11 21:07:04 and read 10309 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 142):
High Commissioners and Ambassadors have the same diplomatic rank, the former title is used for Commonwealth countries.

This is interesting to know. Thanks.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-12 02:55:33 and read 10242 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 139):
All -- I am looking for int'l pax traffic numbers for Indian airports, esp CCU. Any tips on where I can get this info? Specifically looking for number of int'l pax handle by CCU in 2011 or 2012. Thanks.

CCU International Pax

Nov 2012 143,097
Nov 2011 130,088

Cumm. Apr~Nov

2012 1,073,524
2011 1,000,593

Hope this helps. Check the traffic news section on AAI website for more information. http://www.aai.aero/traffic_news/traffic_news.jsp

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-12 05:06:28 and read 10200 times.

Interesting story by Sindhu, makes sense in the light of Indigo being denied acquisition rights for some of the newer planes - they might be forced to start a regional airline

http://www.firstpost.com/business/ex...arate-regional-airline-622818.html

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-12 08:42:21 and read 10137 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 145):
Hope this helps. Check the traffic news section on AAI website for more information. http://www.aai.aero/traffic_news/tra...s.jsp

Thanks, BLR -- much appreciated.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2013-02-15 13:27:10 and read 9941 times.

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...airlines-wants-to-start-tokyo.html

"Japan Airlines (JAL) wants to start a Bangalore Tokyo service, but does not have any plans to do so in the near future, Masaru Onishi, Chairman of the airline, told Bangalore Aviation on the sidelines of the Oneworld event to mark the entry of Malaysia Airlines in to the alliance."

"We we asked about JAL tapping in to the large India to US West Coast market, Onishi explained that JAL already had very high passenger load factors on its trans-Pacific flights, that too from high yield markets like Japan, which makes the airline uncompetitive in low yield markets like India."

I dont understand the last part; does that mean they dont have the capacity for those connecting from India to the west coast or they just wont make any money off the tickets?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: anshuk
Posted 2013-02-15 14:01:09 and read 9942 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 137):
Man, I hear you. I was hoping some of our BLR based a.netters would post pictures at least.

So I did attend the show and had a great time. The airshows were really breathtaking, starting with a Tiger Moth. The most impressive was the Su-30 aerobatics, closely followed by the Rafale display. The Red Bull team was great, as was the Rudra(?) helo flying backwards.

There were plenty of attendees, and I was very impressed by the sharp turnout of the IAF and IA officers. Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders at a very young age! I think the defence of India is in good hands.

Interesting to see the domination of the booths by Israel Aircraft Industries and the various ex Soviet firms, like United Aircraft.

The only downside was the endless loop of Kenny G on the loudspeakers and the Air Marshal's blue Ambassador with three stars parked next to the British High Commissioner's sleek BMW.

I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.

I'm glad you got to go! I've been to every edition since the first in 1996 (may have been 1995), and I was gutted to have missed this one. The show had a lot to do with my love for aviation today. I think the 2007 and 2009 were the biggest by far because of the competition for IAF contract for 126 fighter aircraft - the Americans and Swedes stayed away this time, having lost out in the race. Even the Surya Kiran Acrobatic Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surya_Kiran) team wasn't this year, but I heard the White Knights more than made up for their absence. Glad to hear you had a good time! The show is organised by the Ministry of Defence, and the entire Indian Air Force puts its rather significant weight behind it!

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 141):
i thought the british ambassadors and commissioners were mandated to drive around in Brit cars. The ambassador gets a Rolls Royce, the high commissioners shd have Jags atleast.........

Within the British Commonwealth, diplomatic missions all have different designations. The Embassy is known as the High Commission and the Ambassador is known as the High Commissioner. An Ambassador is supposed to be the representative of the Head of State, but because the Monarch of the United Kingdom is or used to be the Head of State, they have an entirely different system, where the High Commissioner is a person with the rank of an Ambassador accredited to St James Court. On a different note, the Representatives of the Holy See (the Vatican City) are called "Nuncio's" and their diplomatic missions are called Apostolic Nunciatures. Interestingly, Bangalore had some form of representation from the Vatican City, but I'm not sure about whether it still exists or if it had an diplomatic status...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-15 15:49:19 and read 9908 times.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 148):
"We we asked about JAL tapping in to the large India to US West Coast market, Onishi explained that JAL already had very high passenger load factors on its trans-Pacific flights, that too from high yield markets like Japan, which makes the airline uncompetitive in low yield markets like India."

I dont understand the last part; does that mean they dont have the capacity for those connecting from India to the west coast or they just wont make any money off the tickets?

It is the latter. What he is basically saying is he does not want to allocate capacty on the high yield Japan-Transpacific flights to lower yield India O&D connecting passengers. Similar reason as to why BA is not targetting India volumes quite as much as LH -- BA does not want to allocate its high yield London outbound capacity to lower yield India O&D connecting pax.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2013-02-15 16:04:42 and read 9909 times.

Quoting anshuk (Reply 149):
Within the British Commonwealth, diplomatic missions all have different designations. The Embassy is known as the High Commission and the Ambassador is known as the High Commissioner. An Ambassador is supposed to be the representative of the Head of State, but because the Monarch of the United Kingdom is or used to be the Head of State, they have an entirely different system, where the High Commissioner is a person with the rank of an Ambassador accredited to St James Court. On a different note, the Representatives of the Holy See (the Vatican City) are called "Nuncio's" and their diplomatic missions are called Apostolic Nunciatures. Interestingly, Bangalore had some form of representation from the Vatican City, but I'm not sure about whether it still exists or if it had an diplomatic status...

  

Similarly, India has a "High Commission" in Ottawa and Canada has a "High Commission" in New Delhi.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sturmovik
Posted 2013-02-18 03:57:07 and read 9781 times.

Just landed in BLR this afternoon from DEL, and spotted two unusual aircraft on the ramp. One was a UN B763 parked opposite where the aerobridges are, and I'm inclined to think the other one was an Ilyushin 18. Could not be sure about the second one as it was parked near the FX MD11 which obscured it. It definitely had the Il-18 nose and four props. Anyone got any ideas what these interesting fellows are doing in namma BLR?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-18 05:54:17 and read 9724 times.

The 9W-EY deal is stuck because Etihad wants gurantees of its investments - fair enough - but reading between the lines I'm wondering whether they're trying to put the squeeze on NG?
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/1P...ise-Jet-Airways-deal-chairman.html

Another comment that was telling, was that EY scotched all Kingfisher talk calling it 'rumours' - was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-02-19 00:38:57 and read 9582 times.

Spicejet announces LKO and VNS - SHJ from March 2013

Spicejet (India)Announces New Destination: Sharjah (by ojas Feb 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Nimish
Posted 2013-02-19 01:33:59 and read 9569 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 153):
The 9W-EY deal is stuck because Etihad wants gurantees of its investments - fair enough - but reading between the lines I'm wondering whether they're trying to put the squeeze on NG?

As rumors go, I've heard many different rumors implicating 9W mgmt - including
* 9W refusing to let go of any mgmt control/ decision making process/ accountability for the funds infused.
* 9W not willing to hub their North American flights at AUH (instead of BRU)
* Issues around wet leasing the 9W 77Ws and deploying them on AUH-GRU - 9W wants to send these to TK instead of EY.

While EY would certainly like guarantees for their investment - however I'm not sure what exactly that means? If it's a nod from the minister - he's nodding away. If it's a new law that "protects" foreign investment - I don't see that happening (esp. given the policy paralysis in the UPA2). So what is the exact ask here? And if there's a new law needed, does this mean this deal is as good as dead?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-19 02:46:52 and read 9572 times.

An AI A320 driver with over 2000 hours (something I verified) who recently moved to the 787 has made a rap video dissing management and the 'aunties'. If you haven't seen it as yet, you must! I made a thread on it
Air India Pilot Makes Rap Vide - Gets Into Trouble (by Cricket Feb 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: ojas
Posted 2013-02-19 04:29:58 and read 9518 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 154):
Spicejet announces LKO and VNS - SHJ from March 2013

Spicejet (India)Announces New Destination: Sharjah (by ojas Feb 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Posting the link again

Spicejet (India)Announces New Destination: Sharjah (by ojas Feb 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-02-20 03:06:25 and read 9380 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 156):

Tough without pay for 5-6 months though.......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aviationbuff
Posted 2013-02-20 04:50:45 and read 9359 times.

AirAsia to invest in joint venture with Tata group to start airline in India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-in-India/articleshow/18591933.cms

Quote:
AirAsia, a leading low cost carrier based in Malaysia, is gearing up to start an airline in India in association with Tata group and Arun Bhatia of Telestra Tradeplace Ltd.

It has sought approval from Indian Foreign Investment Promotion Board (IFIPB) to invest 49% into the proposed joint venture. The new airline plans to start operations from Chennai.

The airline's investment arm AirAsia Investment Ltd has applied for permission to invest, said a press release on Wednesday.

Finally Tata is taking a plunge in the industry.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-20 07:10:14 and read 9316 times.

Quoting aviationbuff (Reply 159):
Finally Tata is taking a plunge in the industry.

Tatas tried earlier too in the 1990s, to take over and privatise Air India in partnership with Singapore Airlines. The aviation ministry scuttled that proposal. Hopefully this time better sense will prevail and they will be allowed to go ahead with Air Asia.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-22 05:44:09 and read 9115 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 160):
Hopefully this time better sense will prevail and they will be allowed to go ahead with Air Asia.

I have written a contrary opinion piece. Forum rules prevent me from posting the link but a small snippet
----
While the FDI by foreign airlines in India airlines policy is not explicit, so as to avoid any problems before the Competition Commission of India (CCI), the policy is framed to help the weak balance sheets of existing India airlines, and more importantly the banks, many of them government owned, who have already loaned vast sums of money to this sector.

When the cabinet approved the policy on September 14, 2012, the press statement said

Quote:
"......there has been a need to consider financing options available for private airlines in the country, for their operations and service upgradation, and to enable them to compete with other global carriers. Denial of access to foreign capital could result in the collapse of many of our domestic airlines, creating a systemic risk for financial institutions, and a vital gap in the country’s infrastructure"

If foreign airlines are allowed to set-up new greenfield airlines, they need not risk investing in the existing airlines. They can start fresh, with no liabilities, benefit from not making or suffering past mistakes of operations or policy, bring in expertise and massive financial strength, and blow away the fledgling domestic sector.

We have already seen this happen in the international sector, where the government required Indian carriers to operate for five years before they could fly international, while allowing even newly formed foreign carriers to operate to India.

In my humble opinion, allow foreign carriers to set-up greenfield airlines, but after a period of time, may be three years, for now, get them to invest in Jet, IndiGo, SpiceJet, GoAir, and if the government ever comes to a logical sensibility, Air India.

I am advocating the same approach as of Mr. Ratan Tata, a leading member of the "Bombay Club" which over 20 years ago, proposed a similar go slow approach on liberalisation.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2013-02-22 23:17:44 and read 8963 times.

Looks like the ex-IT guys and gals have a place to go now, with Air Asia India possibly starting up.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: golfradio
Posted 2013-02-23 08:44:18 and read 8851 times.

The macro economic conditions have dramatically changed since the last time Tata's considered investing in this industry. In today's times this is a sure shot recipe for putting a big dent in their balance sheet. They would be ill advised to enter now. The domestic market has a well entrenched LCC in Indigo and there is very little room for a second, without seeing a repeat of the price wars of the last 5 years. SG might restructure soon and is in talks with TR http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...alliances/articleshow/18635731.cms
The next couple of years are going to be fluid and there might be soon a shakeout.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: golfradio
Posted 2013-02-23 09:09:38 and read 8844 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 161):

I would like to disagree. This basically means that every new player has to be punished just because others before them suffered? This is like saying every new person wishing to do business now in today's liberalized environment should pay a sufferance fee to the companies that operated during the License Raj.
That is the nature of the beast. The early adopters assume more risk and the followers less. There are advantages and disadvantages for both. While the early entrants had vague or flawed policies to deal with, they also have cornered prime slots, parking space etc.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2013-02-23 15:11:30 and read 8757 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 161):
In my humble opinion, allow foreign carriers to set-up greenfield airlines, but after a period of time, may be three years, for now, get them to invest in Jet, IndiGo, SpiceJet, GoAir, and if the government ever comes to a logical sensibility, Air India.I am advocating the same approach as of Mr. Ratan Tata, a leading member of the "Bombay Club" which over 20 years ago, proposed a similar go slow approach on liberalisation.

In 1996, when the privatisation of AI was being mulled. 4 Major Indian industrial houses were part of the bidding teams Tatas, Lakshmi Mittal, Hindujas and Modis. It was NG who scuttled the whole process, hats off to him for that, but he has been more of a victim of his own policies than a benefactor.

Nandan Nilekeni in his book ''Imagining India'' termed this attitude as GATEKEEPERs. This is what you are promoting further after 20yrs of Aviation liberalisation. Rahul Bajaj and the Tatas have benefited the most from the liberalisation of the automobile industry.

India needs a robust aviation policy. You don't have to go far to see the role of aviation in economic development. DXB, SIN are standing examples. AirAsia is to Asia what RyanAir is to the EU. Had the British govt denied RyanAir unfettered access to the UK just because a fledgeling EASYJET had started ops or the charters were reeling under debt. You wouldn't have seen the massive growth in aviation sector across the UK. RyanAir has invested more in UK as compared to Ireland. And it continues to contribute more to the British economy.
Its this very GATEKEEPER mentality which allows the 5yr/20 ac rule to survive. Ofcourse you don't expect AirAsia-Tata to fly BOM-DXB on their inaugural flt but they will definately wish to fly BOM-DEL.
Aviation is capital intensive. And capital will chase the markets and this is where Mubadala, AbuDhabi investment fund are looking at India salvatingly . India is one of the biggest markets in the world, second only to china in Asia. This market needs catalysts for growth.


Quoting Cricket (Reply 153):
Another comment that was telling, was that EY scotched all Kingfisher talk calling it 'rumours' - was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.

My Money is on Kingfisher rather than 9W. The AbuDhabi sheikhs are an extremely shrewd set of brothers. The delays are more to do with historical differences between India and AbuDhabi, the current ruler and some of his brothers were hounded out of India during the Morarji Govt for hunting Bustards in the Rann. They sheikhs continue to do this on the other side of the border, in pakistan. EK and DXB has benefitted much from this differences. Both India and AbuDhabi are aware they have more to gain from co-operating than confronting.
Investing and reviving the KF brand will be a huge game changer on the EU-INDIA and the EU-Kangroo routes. The 9W brand will not make the same diff. James Hogan who is an Aussie with stints in BMI and Gulf is well aware.
As a brand, i rate KF and then AI among the best in India. Jet by way of the name itself sounds too industrial.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-24 03:03:51 and read 8640 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 165):

My Money is on Kingfisher rather than 9W.

I was with you until this comment. I think you are likely in a tiny minority in willing to put money on KF rather than 9W. KF is dead.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-02-24 05:27:04 and read 8609 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 165):
As a brand, i rate KF and then AI among the best in India. Jet by way of the name itself sounds too industrial.

Are you serious? You're saying that a brand like IT, which is dead in the water, is better than a live brand like 9W which was always better than IT even when IT was still flying....?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-24 09:25:16 and read 8560 times.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 164):
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 165):

Basically, what I said the India AirAsia deal is contravened to the stated goals of the policy of allowing foreign airlines to invest. Please see the press release quoted.

A liberalised environment is good no doubt. However, neither you nor GolfRadio are paying taxes in India. I am. It will be my money that will be used to bail out the banks when existing airlines find it difficult to pay. Aviation is the same toxic debt to India as the housing industry was to the US and Europe in 2009. No one in India wants the type of systemic shock experienced by the western financial institutions from which you all are still suffering, almost years late. Which is why I suggested change be introduced gradually.

Talking about liberalisation .......

Why don't the western economies practice the same liberalisation in employment as they seek in products and services? How many citizens in Europe or North America are ready to compete for their jobs against 2 billion Indians and Chinese?

Quoting Cricket (Reply 153):
was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.

Dada, what-a-joke.  You want the SEBI investigation to go into Rajiv Gandhi Bhawan?     

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-24 12:45:56 and read 8506 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 168):

Why don't the western economies practice the same liberalisation in employment as they seek in products and services? How many citizens in Europe or North America are ready to compete for their jobs against 2 billion Indians and Chinese?

This is tangential to the topic,but the same argument could be made by other S Asian nations (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) against India. It is a slippery slope. Especially given that citizens in N America and Europe are already competing for jobs vis-a-viz India and China -- that is the entire crux of the offshoring and outsourcing debate.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-24 22:31:02 and read 8416 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 169):
This is tangential to the topic

Pointed noted sir.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-25 00:29:02 and read 8392 times.

Tarun Shukla at the Mint has compiled an interesting infographic about IT's aircraft littered across the country and some across the world.



Not sure if all the information is correct though.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2013-02-25 04:04:50 and read 8330 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 168):
It will be my money that will be used to bail out the banks when existing airlines find it difficult to pay.

Another GATEKEEPER statement, probably i've more of my money in the said Indian Banks than the taxes paid by some till date. The boom of last 10yrs in the Indian economy was on the back of this very western Financial QE that you try to deride. India has tremendous latent potential, and that is where it has stayed, LATENT for the last 65yrs. The potential will be unleashed only when we unshackle ourselves of old crony capitalism.
Personally i am not a great fan of VJM. He alongwith NG are responsible for the current woes of Indian aviation. As i read recently Raghuram Rajan and Luigi Zingales write in Saving Capitalism from the Capitalists: “Throughout its history, the free market system has been held back, not so much by its own economic deficiencies as Marxists would have it, but because of its reliance on political goodwill for its infrastructure. The threat primarily comes from…incumbents, those who already have an established position in the marketplace…The identity of the most dangerous incumbents depends on the country and the time period, but the part has been played at various times by the landed aristocracy, the owners and managers of large corporations, their financiers, and organised labour.”

Quoting sankaps (Reply 166):
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 167):

Aviation is as much about brands than mere transportation. Especially when it comes to Intl and Biz class travel. Towards this end i will say hats off to the man (VJM) for creating this brand. Had it not been for the 5yr rule he would have probably made it with his orders. The forced purchase of DN and dispute with IAE led to his downfall.

I am not for unfettered access to Indian markets but then India does need to attract capital. Additionally in the case of AirAsia's Fernandez, he is a person of Indian origin, this has been the accepted norm for FDI for long.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-25 14:42:24 and read 8217 times.

I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...

Any ideas?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: freqflyer
Posted 2013-02-25 17:31:11 and read 8170 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 173):
I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...

Any ideas?

I have felt the same way for long, but put it down to the postings on airliners-india.net forum. A lot of the contribution that is made there could have perhaps found its way here.

Just my 2 p.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2013-02-25 17:33:39 and read 8170 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 173):

I believe a lot of a.netters have become weary of the cloud of uncertainty that surrounds Indian aviation developments in all the right ways so much that discussion sometimes becomes an unrewarding affair.....
Just my opinion though.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: vin2basketball
Posted 2013-02-25 18:24:31 and read 8158 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 173):
I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...

Any ideas?

Etihad+Jet -- it's a negotiation -- the Indian media rushed to announce it as a done deal before it really was.

Air Costa and the like -- p*ssing money down the drain -- Tier II/III strategy would work potentially, but with props, not with large RJs, which have the worst seat-mile economics in Indian market -- b/c of govt policies Q400/ATR are actually competitive on CASM basis with mainline jets (737 to A320) up to 350-600 mile flights (ATR on lower end, Q400 on higher end) before per hour costs start to catch up due to lower speeds

KF Saga - Death by thousand cuts? Unless somebody in SBI decides to bail em out and kick can down the road b/c KF debt is toxic asset

AirAsia + Tata - Still can't figure out how they'll be serving Tier II-III cities out of MAA when most of the aforementioned cities don't have runways capable of handling A320s -- best option for these folks if they want to be profitable is to buy SpiceJet outright from Marans -- then they can add the Q400s that SG desparately needs and continue the profitable int'l expansion out of DEL and on underserved Gulf routes, maybe even take on AIX with lower cost base on trunk Gulf routes pending traffic rights.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Nimish
Posted 2013-02-25 23:30:49 and read 8194 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 173):
I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...

A lot of discussion still takes place on the airliners-india forums. Besides, while there's some activity in the market, there's also a lot of pessimism in the market - IT has gone down, 9W is floundering like nobody's business (sometimes *A, sometimes EY, hub in BRU/ MUC/ timbuktu), AI limps along without anything remotely interesting or new. Contrast that to the past few years where there was a lot of optimism in the Indian aviation markets.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-26 00:15:33 and read 8172 times.

Vin2, your post is exactly the kind of post I, and suspect many others, have been missing on this thread!

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176):
Etihad+Jet -- it's a negotiation -- the Indian media rushed to announce it as a done deal before it really was.

Yes, trust the Indian media to jump the gun always. And to carry planted stories such as the one earlier about EY and KF being close to a deal!

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176):
Air Costa and the like -- p*ssing money down the drain -- Tier II/III strategy would work potentially, but with props, not with large RJs, which have the worst seat-mile economics in Indian market -- b/c of govt policies Q400/ATR are actually competitive on CASM basis with mainline jets (737 to A320) up to 350-600 mile flights (ATR on lower end, Q400 on higher end) before per hour costs start to catch up due to lower speeds

Agree completely. And besides the strategy and aircraft choice being weak, what about the name, branding, and positioning? Have you seen their marketing? It has the owner / chariman's unsmiling face as the main image!

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176):
KF Saga - Death by thousand cuts? Unless somebody in SBI decides to bail em out and kick can down the road b/c KF debt is toxic asset

Agree, can't wait for them to disappear. It appears now that the GOI has taken away their int'l rights and domestic slots...

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176):
AirAsia + Tata - Still can't figure out how they'll be serving Tier II-III cities out of MAA when most of the aforementioned cities don't have runways capable of handling A320s -- best option for these folks if they want to be profitable is to buy SpiceJet outright from Marans -- then they can add the Q400s that SG desparately needs and continue the profitable int'l expansion out of DEL and on underserved Gulf routes, maybe even take on AIX with lower cost base on trunk Gulf routes pending traffic rights.

I think the media got that wrong or misunderstood it, or perhaps it is just political posturing. While Chennai will be the base, what I understand is that they will definitely go after the major Tier 1 and 2 routes like other LCCs in India.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-28 02:20:19 and read 7912 times.

They might as well wind up Kingfisher now, all domestic slots and international rights they had have been withdrawn, a statement by MoCA Ajit Singh has said
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=92482

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-02-28 06:06:28 and read 7826 times.

Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-28 08:10:10 and read 7782 times.

Quoting comorin (Reply 180):
Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.

Good news for Air India, but why is my tax money being used for this?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-02-28 10:03:29 and read 7756 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 179):
They might as well wind up Kingfisher now, all domestic slots and international rights they had have been withdrawn, a statement by MoCA Ajit Singh has said
Quoting comorin (Reply 180):
Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered

It's so amazing that Kingfisher has been dead for several months now and VM unable to do anything about it, not paying his staff, etc. and yet there were people on this forum who nurtured hopes of seeing them come back from the dead......

On the other hand AI is alive and operating (although not measuring up to the standards of a.nutters    ) and yet so many on this forum are hoping for them to wind up......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2013-02-28 11:57:55 and read 7723 times.

New name for 9W Jetihad 

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-02-28 12:04:27 and read 7726 times.

Don't know if it has already mentioned but accoridng to a Dutch website 9W sold its LHR slots to EY and leased them back. As a result 9W will get USD70mio. Looks like 9W and EY are getting closer to eachother...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-02-28 14:39:41 and read 7682 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 171):

Tarun Shukla at the Mint has compiled an interesting infographic about IT's aircraft littered across the country and some across the world.

Very interesting. Any update on the fate of the aircraft? If will impact *all* Indian airlines leasing/finance costs if those aircraft cannot be reposed quickly.

Quoting comorin (Reply 180):
Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.

Wow... that is some serious cash. Does anyone have a record of the 'equity infusions' into AI over the years? At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.

Quoting LJ (Reply 184):
Looks like 9W and EY are getting closer to eachother...

It would be an interesting twist if 9W went to Skyteam instead of fighting the GOI. The first Indian airline into an alliance should see a nice boost in revenue. Not that it happened in time for IT (nor did they have their service and costs in line to benefit from such a revenue boost).

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-02-28 19:25:36 and read 7643 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 185):
Wow... that is some serious cash. Does anyone have a record of the 'equity infusions' into AI over the years? At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.

Before 2008, AI/IC combined had directly received less than $100 million from the government. However, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI, and that AI had very limited competition for a long time essentially meant that the government didn't need to give subsidies.

Over the last few years, with economy crashing, fuel spiking, and market being liberalized, AI has taken almost $500 million, with another chunk of money earmarked for the current restructuring process. After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-02-28 21:03:32 and read 7606 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 183):
New name for 9W Jetihad 

Nice One!

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186):
Over the last few years, with economy crashing, fuel spiking, and market being liberalized, AI has taken almost $500 million, with another chunk of money earmarked for the current restructuring process. After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.

I hope this ius the last time taxpayer funds are being used. That said, if Ai is our national carrier it should not be treated as a 'step sister'; although ever since PP left the ministry things seem to be better for AI

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-03-01 08:45:39 and read 7498 times.

Quoting LJ (Reply 184):
At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.

AI will stop getting cash infusions and subsidies from the GOI the day that they caese to be a public sector company....till then, they will continue, as the govt owns the airline.....

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186):
However, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI,

Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....

Quoting Cricket (Reply 187):
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 183):New name for 9W Jetihad
Nice One!

Sounds too much like Jihad!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-03-02 13:12:18 and read 7329 times.

AirAsia-Tata: Cats and Monkeys

Interesting commentary on Indian Av.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188):
Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....

On all gov't and PSU funded trips, AI must be used if the schedule is feasible.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: rahulrahul
Posted 2013-03-02 17:35:59 and read 7279 times.

Does anybody know when Air Costa is starting up?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-02 18:57:25 and read 7259 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 161):
We have already seen this happen in the international sector, where the government required Indian carriers to operate for five years before they could fly international, while allowing even newly formed foreign carriers to operate to India.

That is in the bilateral. If India halts a foreign airline that has its nations approval to fly then the other nation could halt the air service agreement and other parts of the bilateral. In other words, a trade war. India may put its own rules on home airlines, but not on foreign airlines that keep to the air service agreement portion of the bilateral.

This is like airport slots. Almost all bilaterals require the same service points (airports) to be an option. If India were to build a new Mumbai airport and force all foreign carriers to use that airport, the other nations would use the automatic trigger to force all of the Indian airlines to use the new airport. Rights are reciprocal.

I think India's restrictions on their airlines flying international was silly, but that has zero application to the competition. There is no reciprocal right to impose such a restriction on other airlines and no nation would give that right away.


Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186):
owever, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI, and that AI had very limited competition for a long time essentially meant that the government didn't need to give subsidies.

Interesting... but legal.   I don't agree, but that and 2 bucks gets a coffee at Starbucks... If the GOI wants to mandate government business is on AI, that is their right and isn't, as you note, technically a subsidy.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186):
After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.

I've heard no serious steps to privatization for AI. I would like it to happen, but I really doubt it will be in the next twenty years.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188):
AI will stop getting cash infusions and subsidies from the GOI the day that they caese to be a public sector company....till then, they will continue, as the govt owns the airline.....

Agreed. Hence the discussion.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: CaliAtenza
Posted 2013-03-02 21:09:59 and read 7226 times.

So we heard (there was a thread on here about that) of the Turkish and Indian governments allowing Turkish to increase services to BOM and DEL to 2x daily, but any word if Turkish is being allowed to open up other Indian destinations?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-03-04 05:08:53 and read 7018 times.

And, surprise, surprise - 9W asks for Kingfisher's slots. Naresh Goyal who was once publicly humiliated by VJM will like to turn the knife in - however, I'm not sure that 9W will get all the slots - pretty sure that IndiGo and Spicejet will want them too. And what will 9W do with the LHR slots - sell them onto EY?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...her-slots/articleshow/18780561.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-03-04 05:56:11 and read 7004 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 193):
And what will 9W do with the LHR slots - sell them onto EY?

This whole LHR slot-selling thing... at least in the case of UK-India, aren't the slots, right, and assignments governed by bilaterals / regulatory body decisions? Shouldn't the DGCA "own" the slots that are made available to Indian carriers?

[Edited 2013-03-04 05:57:37]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: gr8circle
Posted 2013-03-04 07:20:12 and read 6966 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 189):
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188): Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....
On all gov't and PSU funded trips, AI must be used if the schedule is feasible.

Ok, this must be a relatively recent directive......8 odd years back when I was still in India, I know for sure that state government employees in Maharashtra were free to choose their carrier of choice while traveling domestic or international.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: comorin
Posted 2013-03-04 09:16:54 and read 6924 times.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 195):

Central Government employees are to travel by Air India to foreign destinations unless there are operational reasons, which require approval from the CivAv ministry. For domestic travel, they are free to travel on any carrier that offers a cheaper price than AI. Given that AI has discounted fares for the GOI, that may be a hurdle to cross.

Source: Finance Ministry PDFs.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: Cricket
Posted 2013-03-04 21:13:10 and read 6809 times.

Such fun, first Naresh Goyal wants KFA's slots in BOM and now he has taken over two ATR's previously operated by KFA - anyone know the registrations on these birds - new and old?
http://bit.ly/ZjONbm

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-03-05 03:46:59 and read 6731 times.

Looks like 9W is getting the KF ATRs cheap.....Nice move.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aviationbuff
Posted 2013-03-06 01:39:16 and read 6560 times.

AirAsia-Tata joint venture gets govt's nod to start new airline

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w-airline/articleshow/18829054.cms

Quote:
The finance ministry on Wednesday cleared the investment proposal of Malaysian budget carrier AirAsia which seeks to enter India through a joint venture with Tata Group and another company.

"AirAsia's proposal has been cleared. It is as per the policy (which allows) up to 49 per cent FDI. Rs 80 crore is initial investment," a senior government official said.

The Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB), headed by DEA secretary Arvind Mayaram, approved the proposal at its meeting here.

This would be the first entry of a foreign carrier in the domestic sector.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: vtnyc
Posted 2013-03-06 07:08:18 and read 6478 times.

Since this thread started in December and now should be ending in March, how about naming the next set of threads by the month and year that they start in and start one on the frist of each month? Would any anet posting policy be violated? The threads would average less than 100 posts and would be easier to search based on the time. Of course LAXDESI has the final say..

[Edited 2013-03-06 07:09:12]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aviationbuff
Posted 2013-03-06 07:29:46 and read 6462 times.

Quoting vtnyc (Reply 200):
Would any anet posting policy be violated

As per the anet guidelines the thread should have around 200 posts before giving way to a new thread.

Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.

[Edited 2013-03-06 07:35:02]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2013-03-06 07:57:42 and read 6456 times.

Quoting vtnyc (Reply 200):
Of course LAXDESI has the final say..

I am fine with anything that will sustain the thread. Hope to contribute in future when things are less busy for me.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2013-03-06 19:22:06 and read 6342 times.

Quoting aviationbuff (Reply 201):
Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.

  

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: fortunerunnner
Posted 2013-03-07 11:20:12 and read 6158 times.

Quoting aviationbuff (Reply 201):
Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.

Like this idea too.   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-03-10 03:41:51 and read 5957 times.

Anyone having the list of permissions needed by an Airline to get thru before commencing operation....I think Sean had posted it someplace yrs ago.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-10 07:54:38 and read 5894 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 198):
Looks like 9W is getting the KF ATRs cheap.....Nice move.

Picking up 2 from the leasing company is all I see. What about the others?
http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/jet-...leased-to-kingfisher-airways-19581


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: airdfw
Posted 2013-03-10 08:44:53 and read 5862 times.

Is AI still flying 747 for regular passenger service?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-03-10 08:53:22 and read 5857 times.

Quoting airdfw (Reply 207):
Is AI still flying 747 for regular passenger service?

yes, to saudi

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2013-03-13 11:05:11 and read 5631 times.

Quoting airdfw (Reply 207):

They sure are.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-03-14 12:23:25 and read 5449 times.

Part 103 is open: Indian Aviation Thread Part 103 (by aeroblogger Mar 14 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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