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Topic: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-14 19:27:39 and read 12962 times.

Wow! Part four already!

Welcome to our fourth thread, and presumably, the last one of 2012!

We have had a nice discussion since the first thread was made in July.

Some talking points:

BA Starting daily flights last week
Now that this merger is presumably in full swing, what's going to happen?
G4 and AZA

Here is the list we have been working on since the last thread. I have updated it since you guys posted your replies. In regards to AS, I have included both the 9ER and 900 as part of its service to PHX.

AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735 (seasonal), 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D

CARGO:

A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain
EM Cessna 208B
FX Boeing 722F (seasonal) Airbus A300F, A310F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
5X Airbus A300F, Boeing 752F, 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)

How does the list look so far?

Enjoy the weather, and Happy Holidays   

PHX787

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-16 14:47:46 and read 12728 times.

I forgot who but someone said that the WN 735 is summer seasonal, but this flight I found on Flightaware is still operating as a 735 and has been for a while:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA3685

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-16 18:56:30 and read 12668 times.

Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-12-16 19:30:55 and read 12650 times.

Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-16 19:59:38 and read 12631 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 3):
Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p

There are plenty of open gates that VX could use already, I suspect the biggest reason they haven't started flying here is the amount of competition on both LAX-PHX and SFO-PHX that's in place.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-16 20:04:27 and read 12624 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 4):
There are plenty of open gates that VX could use already, I suspect the biggest reason they haven't started flying here is the amount of competition on both LAX-PHX and SFO-PHX that's in place.
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 3):
Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p

What's the whole attraction with VX? Last I checked that airline was in hot water...what kind of routes could they operate out of here?

Quoting 4holer (Reply 2):
Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.

Anyone have recent photos? PHXSpotters didn't post anything recently.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-16 20:04:33 and read 12622 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 2):
Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.

I don't think we get any 727s here at PHX anymore, FX typically is all MD-10s A300s or MD-11s.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowAZ
Posted 2012-12-16 23:45:01 and read 12562 times.

With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2012-12-17 00:16:07 and read 12553 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

I'm assuming the list is what flies out of PHX, but I am unfortunately too lazy to look at the last thread to know for sure. Anyway. UAL uses B73G and B738 (not mentioned), but I haven't seen any -500s in a while aside from the occasional IAH run since there are fewer than a dozen left in the fleet these days. Having said that, I could be full of crap. Although I can vouch for the -800 because one took me to IAD on Saturday. They ran a few B753s a week a few months back if I recall correctly.

I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.

Also, I'm pretty sure SWA uses B735 year round. They only have 15 or 20 floating around so they aren't as prevalent as in the past, but they're still around. SWA generally doesn't seasonally do much of anything with their fleet, but that may start changing with the -800. I don't fly them so I don't really care.

Happily the theme of my post until now appears to be about dying airplanes, so I'll move on..


When I got to T2 around 8am Saturday, I found a nice surprise (considering PHX typically boasts remarkably unsurprising traffic). The fairly routine bit was that UAL had a chartered B764 (the Lions, I assume) parked just west of T2 where UA always parks, so neat-o. The noteworthy bit is that at 6A and 6B (or however the hell that PMCO charlie fox of a gate area is numbered) was the UA retro A320 parked next to the CO 75th B739. I'm guessing those two aren't parked side-by-side too often, so it did provide a brief distraction before returning to my search for coffee.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-12-17 00:21:25 and read 12549 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 3):
Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p

After all these years, we'll probably see VX in Ch.7 court before we see them in PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-17 00:31:04 and read 12547 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 6):
I don't think we get any 727s here at PHX anymore, FX typically is all MD-10s A300s or MD-11s.
Quoting 4holer (Reply 2):
Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.

The operating pattern has been a little sketchy, but we've had a 727 here about 12 times in the last month. Haven't seen it in about a week though. Usually comes up from TUS and goes out to AFW.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
I forgot who but someone said that the WN 735 is summer seasonal, but this flight I found on Flightaware is still operating as a 735 and has been for a while:

From the last thread, that was for UA, not WN:

Quoting wn676 (Reply 246):
UA - B735 appears to be summer seasonal

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-17 06:39:26 and read 12502 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7):
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.

It should pick up soon with the Amazon center in the west valley.

On Saturday UPS had a MD-11 and A-300, FX had MD-11 and MD-10 in the mix.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 9):
After all these years, we'll probably see VX in Ch.7 court before we see them in PHX.

Agree, the only way I can see VX surviving is for them to be acquired by someone else. That being said, I do not see a long life for VX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-17 07:21:59 and read 12483 times.

I wish there was a way to get to Sfo from phx.

Oh wait there is! Withn UA, WN, and US only an idiot would start another route on this highly competitive, highly served route. VX has no place/ need here

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-17 07:25:42 and read 12482 times.

G4 announced St Cloud Minnesota to Gateway. Should do quite well

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-17 09:57:41 and read 12438 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7):
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.

Evergreen is bringing in a B742 from SDF today, its flight EIA2856 and is scheduled to land at 4:12PM MST.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-17 11:09:43 and read 12402 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
I'm assuming the list is what flies out of PHX, but I am unfortunately too lazy to look at the last thread to know for sure.

Yep in and out of PHX

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.

Ok I'll scratch them off.

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7):
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.

I keep checking flightaware but I see nothing of the odd. I saw a 5X MD-11 last week though which was odd to me.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 9):
After all these years, we'll probably see VX in Ch.7 court before we see them in PHX.

That's my expectation.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 10):
From the last thread, that was for UA, not WN:

Ok I'll edit the list later.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 13):
G4 announced St Cloud Minnesota to Gateway. Should do quite well

Very nice addition! Maybe G4 can do some east coast cities.
What's it like at AZA with G4? Can airlines connect here or is it all purely O&D?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-17 11:27:59 and read 12392 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 12):
VX has no place/ need here

But what about all those people who want to fly on a plane with purple lights?  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-17 11:55:54 and read 12373 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.

Ok I'll scratch them off.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1141

Again, they still continue to show up every year around this time.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
I saw a 5X MD-11 last week though which was odd to me.

They've been running up to 5 daily MD-11s since right after Thanksgiving, in addition to their other flights. Last Thursday they had 12 total movements and FDX had I think about 10 or 11. Very busy down there.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-17 14:17:09 and read 12341 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 14):
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7):
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.

Evergreen is bringing in a B742 from SDF today, its flight EIA2856 and is scheduled to land at 4:12PM MST.

Looks like a 6:10 arrival now.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIA2856

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-17 15:07:31 and read 12326 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 18):
Looks like a 6:10 arrival now.

Guess who is going to upload a video when it lands!  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-17 19:08:17 and read 12277 times.

Please excuse this rather poorly-edited self-gloss. Some peak cargo fun I filmed tonight.

by the way, nice to meet you today wn676  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9_Iq5q22dk&feature=youtu.be

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2012-12-18 01:48:28 and read 12229 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 10):
The operating pattern has been a little sketchy, but we've had a 727 here about 12 times in the last month. Haven't seen it in about a week though. Usually comes up from TUS and goes out to AFW.

Apparently the part of my post saying that I'm full of crap proved correct (nothing new there). I always notice the Coyotes 727 so maybe that distracts me from the ones from FDX. Unfortunately it sounds like they may only be around for another year or two before they're all retired...sad, but they've gotta be expensive as hell to run.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-12-18 02:29:09 and read 12219 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20):

looks like Evergreens 747-200 will be flying back into PHX this morning at 04:05am from http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIA850
UPS MD11- http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS9833 and UPS 767-300 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS854 Both are on Final approch to PHX now.

[Edited 2012-12-18 02:41:44]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-18 09:31:58 and read 12165 times.

I saw this B744 inbound from Houston this AM, http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...1/history/20121218/1350Z/KIAH/KPHX and now they've filed for Philly in an hour http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI2865

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-18 10:49:45 and read 12148 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 23):
I saw this B744 inbound from Houston this AM, http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...1/history/20121218/1350Z/KIAH/KPHX and now they've filed for Philly in an hour http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...I2865

That's the dream lifter    I can't believe I missed that!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-12-18 11:39:41 and read 12185 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
That's the dream lifter I can't believe I missed that!

Man o Man that would have been a great sight to see. I just saw it on Flight Aware a few minutes ago. It departed PHX at 11:07 this morning.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-18 11:42:55 and read 12192 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
Quoting 4holer (Reply 23):
I saw this B744 inbound from Houston this AM, http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...1/history/20121218/1350Z/KIAH/KPHX and now they've filed for Philly in an hour http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...I2865

That's the dream lifter I can't believe I missed that!

It was a standard Atlas '47, N418MC. I saw it pushing out of the alley this morning going by on the 10.

It was nice meeting you last night as well  Smile

[Edited 2012-12-18 11:45:36]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-18 11:47:24 and read 12263 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
That's the dream lifter    I can't believe I missed that!

Why would the Dreamlifter be flying IAH-PHX-PHL?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-18 11:52:57 and read 12248 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 26):
It was a standard Atlas '47, N418MC. I saw it pushing out of the alley this morning going by on the 10.

Still a sight to see. Odd that flightaware put the dreamlifter as the photo.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 27):
Why would the Dreamlifter be flying IAH-PHX-PHL?

Yeah that's why I was shocked too but otherwise a Atlas 744 is still awesome

For what it's worth 5X is sending another MD11 in a few hours.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS2854

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-12-18 12:07:33 and read 12230 times.

It would be cool to start a heavy tracking page into PHX for the next few days so that we can all keep track of what's coming and when they are leaving. It's pretty cool to watch the 747s and even the MD11s departing from PHX to the East from Chandler. They look like they are barely moving and it seems to take a long time for them to climb out. When they depart to the West sometime they get routed right over Chandler and circle back to the North.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-18 12:24:12 and read 12224 times.

Man I've got to get out to PHX soon before all the cargo heavies are done for the season. I would love to get a picture of an Evergreen 742 landing between 4-5PM, when the light is perfect for arrivals from the east.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-18 12:27:06 and read 12217 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 30):
Man I've got to get out to PHX soon before all the cargo heavies are done for the season. I would love to get a picture of an Evergreen 742 landing between 4-5PM, when the light is perfect for arrivals from the east.

I didn't see anything on Flightaware today unfortunately  
Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 29):
It would be cool to start a heavy tracking page into PHX for the next few days so that we can all keep track of what's coming and when they are leaving

I second that but PHXSpotters on FB was supposed to apparently do that, but they didn't for the Atlas flight this morning....

If you guys catch anything interesting coming inbound, post it here, I guess

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-18 13:05:58 and read 12202 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
For what it's worth 5X is sending another MD11 in a few hours.

5X MD-11s are relatively common here in PHX. I've seen as many as 3 on the ground at the same time.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-18 13:24:20 and read 12195 times.

OK, This got me wondering what the frequencies of cargo aircraft was at PHX, so I complied a list of arrivals from 00:00 today until now using Flightaware.

Flight # ----- Type---Dept Time

UPS 9723 - B757 - 00:30
UPS 834 - B767 - 03:26
UPS 9833 - MD-11 - 03:31
FDX 1863 - DC-10 - 05:04
EIA - 850 - B742 - 05:28
UPS - 856 - B752 - 05:35
FDX - 1748 - MD-11 - 05:59
FDX - 1192 - DC-10 - 06:37
FDX - 1403 - MD-11 - 06:42
ABE - 815 - B763 - 07:12
FDX - 1411 - DC-10 - 07:41
GTI - 9731 - B744 - 08:26
UPS - 858 - MD-11 - 08:45
FDX - 1778 - DC-10 - 09:58
GTI - 2865 - B744 - 11:07
FDX - 3632 - A-306 - 19:20
UPS - 853 - MD-11 - 22:38

There seems to be a lot of DC-10's and not MD-10's on the list, but I also know Flightaware can be wrong.

Also who uses the callsign, "Company"? I have heard it in the past, but have been unable to find who uses it.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-18 13:36:19 and read 12206 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 33):
Also who uses the callsign, "Company"? I have heard it in the past, but have been unable to find who uses it.

When ATC uses the word "Company" they are telling the flight crew they are fallowing another one of their company's aircraft, like a US plane fallowing another US plane.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-18 13:39:32 and read 12180 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 34):
When ATC uses the word "Company" they are telling the flight crew they are fallowing another one of their company's aircraft, like a US plane fallowing another US plane.

Thanks, I was trying to deduce this for the longest time.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-18 13:41:10 and read 12186 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 33):
Also who uses the callsign, "Company"? I have heard it in the past, but have been unable to find who uses it.

When ATC refers to "Company," it simply means that they are also speaking to another aircraft of the same airline. For example; "UPS834 follow behind company MD-11." Meaning that the said MD-11 is also UPS. Does this make sense?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-18 17:06:08 and read 12140 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 32):
5X MD-11s are relatively common here in PHX.

Depending on the time of year, sure. Between January and mid-November, there was a grand total of one that came through here in March.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-18 18:51:27 and read 12109 times.

B742 arriving at 10PM tonite.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIA9729

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-18 19:14:30 and read 12107 times.

Capital Cargo inbound at Midnight tonight folks
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCI969

Quoting wn676 (Reply 37):
Depending on the time of year, sure. Between January and mid-November, there was a grand total of one that came through here in March.

excuse the self-plug and quality again but there was another that flew over ASU earlier today when it was actually light outside

http://i48.tinypic.com/2d6uohd.jpg

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowAZ
Posted 2012-12-18 22:42:16 and read 12075 times.

Looks like a BA268 747-400 has been diverted to PHX after departure from LAX on its way to LHR. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...8/history/20121219/0440Z/KLAX/EGLL
Sounds like a medical emergency - 2 yr old female having seizures. Listen live on Live ATC
http://www.liveatc.net/flisten.php?mount=kphx&icao=kphx

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-18 23:23:40 and read 12044 times.

Leaving at 110AM

Wondering if I should go out and snap its departure in this weather   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-19 01:17:24 and read 12026 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 40):
BA268
http://youtu.be/y9eTJwo10HQ

Ignore the self-plug again, and the excessive wind noise.....rather, enjoy it because I doubt I'll ever do anything like this in this pathetic weather again!  Wink

I just needed a break from dealing with my crazy ex girlfriend   

[Edited 2012-12-19 01:27:14]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-19 06:31:48 and read 11981 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 32):
5X MD-11s are relatively common here in PHX. I've seen as many as 3 on the ground at the same time.

Another one for today...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS9891
And a repeat of yesterday's B744 from Houston http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI9731

If I stand outside here in Chandler over the next hour or so, I see 2 FedEx DC/MD10s and that 744 upstream that will fly over!

Edit: Oh! They're coming in from the east! DC10 #1 just seen floating in over Gilbert and another to follow shortly.

[Edited 2012-12-19 06:39:48]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-19 07:24:58 and read 11965 times.

Well, it looks as if there is a PA-31 that went missing in the Matazal Mountains.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ne-search-continue-today-abrk.html

Quoting 4holer (Reply 43):

Another one for today...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS9891
And a repeat of yesterday's B744 from Houston http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI9731

If I stand outside here in Chandler over the next hour or so, I see 2 FedEx DC/MD10s and that 744 upstream that will fly over!

Edit: Oh! They're coming in from the east! DC10 #1 just seen floating in over Gilbert and another to follow shortly.

Crap, I am stuck in a building in Tempe that is two miles from the glide path into PHX.....

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-12-19 09:27:57 and read 11946 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here is the list we have been working on since the last thread. I have updated it since you guys posted your replies. In regards to AS, I have included both the 9ER and 900 as part of its service to PHX.

AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735 (seasonal), 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D

Let's hear it for T2 getting all the 739/739ER love at PHX!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowAZ
Posted 2012-12-19 11:08:39 and read 11907 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
Apparently the part of my post saying that I'm full of crap proved correct (nothing new there). I always notice the Coyotes 727 so maybe that distracts me from the ones from FDX. Unfortunately it sounds like they may only be around for another year or two before they're all retired...sad, but they've gotta be expensive as hell to run.

A few days back there was talk about 727s flying into PHX. A Capital Cargo ( Cappy) 727 came in last night at 12:07am from BFI. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCI969

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-19 11:28:01 and read 11899 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 44):
Crap, I am stuck in a building in Tempe that is two miles from the glide path into PHX.....

I was asleep   

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 45):
Let's hear it for T2 getting all the 739/739ER love at PHX!

   Soon T-3 when DL gets their 739s  
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 46):
A few days back there was talk about 727s flying into PHX. A Capital Cargo ( Cappy) 727 came in last night at 12:07am from BFI. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCI969

Heard her fly over. It was majestic indeed! haha

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-19 12:05:20 and read 11892 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47):
Soon T-3 when DL gets their 739s

Their fine at T2, I like T3 the way it is with all the 757s.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-19 13:34:20 and read 11860 times.

Drove out to see the Atlas 744F leave today, what a great livery.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-19 13:36:23 and read 11859 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 48):
I like T3 the way it is with all the 757s.

It sure would be nice for the TSA to have more than one x-ray belt open when "all the 757s" depart.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: osubuckeyes
Posted 2012-12-19 14:54:16 and read 11827 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 50):

Horrible in the spring when they have one belt open for the red-eyes. I've experienced the worst of it when there was a 767-300 sub and a 757-300 on the same night a year or two ago. Line is so long.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-19 20:39:15 and read 11769 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 49):
Drove out to see the Atlas 744F leave today, what a great livery.

Photo? 

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-19 20:40:53 and read 11774 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
Photo?

All on my iPhone, crappy. Sorry my friend.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-19 20:48:57 and read 11764 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
Photo?

You asked. Awful quality.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-19 21:03:33 and read 11747 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 54):

Love it  I am not a quality-guy when it comes to rarities.

Someone should snag a video next time he's in town. Unfortunately, I'm back in Ohio for the holidays.

I wish I joined and started this thread sooner. The day before I joined Airliners, the 787 came to town, and before I began the thread, we had a upgauge to DTW on a 744, as well as a JL 77W Charter and an Atlas 744 charter (the SonAir one that usually flies out of IAH)

I had no clue any of those were flying into town   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-19 21:15:57 and read 11746 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 55):
JL 77W Charter and an Atlas 744 charter (the SonAir one that usually flies out of IAH)

Baseball. JAL brought the Seattle Mariners to Japan and Atlas brought the Oakland A's. They train in Phoenix and opened the season in Tokyo.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-20 07:15:59 and read 11667 times.

Atlas 744 inbound yet again. Arriving at 9:28.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI9731

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowAZ
Posted 2012-12-20 07:48:14 and read 11654 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 57):
Atlas 744 inbound yet again. Arriving at 9:28.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/G...I9731

He should fly over head since this approach typically brings them over Chandler a 8000 feet. I hope to get a shot of his 45 deg approch to base.  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-20 08:29:24 and read 11637 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 58):
He should fly over head since this approach typically brings them over Chandler a 8000 feet. I hope to get a shot of his 45 deg approch to base.

Yup, just watched. Would have liked to see it flying a little lower, but any 747 is a good 747!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 11:47:44 and read 11594 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/L...0/history/20121220/1615Z/KPHX/KMIA
Anyone wanna explain this? Is this a codeshare for the AA flight or something?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-20 11:59:38 and read 11574 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Is this a codeshare for the AA flight or something?

Yes. It is.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 12:18:04 and read 11572 times.

Looks like this 5Y flight is going to be a given until about the 23rd. Its routing is SDF-IAH-PHX-PHL.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-20 12:45:42 and read 11555 times.

Interesting. Looks like a repo to me.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...1/history/20121220/1547Z/PHKO/KPHX

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 14:31:47 and read 11513 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 63):
Interesting. Looks like a repo to me.

Could be. It originated in HNL and flew in yesterday as well under the same flight number. Routing looks to be SDF-NHL-KOA with a tag back to PHX for a trip to SDF. If it flew from SDF to HNL originally, couldn't it make it from KOA to SDF if it was loaded? I'm saying this as if it flew into PHX for a fuel stop.

Any flights being delayed/diverted to PHX because of snow in the midwest ?

Looks like the Evergreen is inbound again around 5:45 tonight
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIA2858

[Edited 2012-12-20 14:43:57]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 18:39:04 and read 11467 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 64):
Looks like the Evergreen is inbound again around 5:45 tonight

Another Evergreen (EIA9729 (B742)) filed to depart Ontario at 08:05PM for PHX.... Estimated at 09:51PM

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: HOONS90
Posted 2012-12-20 18:53:18 and read 11462 times.

Copa started LAS fairly recently. I was wondering if there's any possibility of them opening up PHX?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-21 03:22:38 and read 11405 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 64):

Could be. It originated in HNL and flew in yesterday as well under the same flight number. Routing looks to be SDF-NHL-KOA with a tag back to PHX for a trip to SDF. If it flew from SDF to HNL originally, couldn't it make it from KOA to SDF if it was loaded? I'm saying this as if it flew into PHX for a fuel stop.

Any flights being delayed/diverted to PHX because of snow in the midwest ?

According to Boeing.com

"In the freighter mode, the MD-11CF can carry 197,400 pounds (89,540 kg) of cargo up to 5,235 statute miles (8,415 km)."

According to the great circle mapper the HNL - SDF would be 4,383mi, so in theory it could make it, but I do not know if they are using PHX as a top-off location or if that they just want an extra layer of safety for their flight. If they offload the weight of fuel, they can carry more cargo and this could be another possibility. I have ordered flowers form Hawai'i and they flew from KOA to SDF directly, but this was also in October.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-21 10:16:55 and read 11378 times.

Emirates Skycargo 747-400F is en-route to PHX. Flight is GTI9731. Estimated arrival is 12:47PM. N415MC.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-21 11:47:07 and read 11337 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 68):
Emirates Skycargo 747-400F is en-route to PHX.

Just flew past. That is one attractive airplane!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-21 16:41:48 and read 11290 times.

Great seeing the EK colors here today! Here it is departing to PHL:

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-21 17:23:43 and read 11271 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 68):
Emirates Skycargo 747-400F is en-route to PHX. Flight is GTI9731. Estimated arrival is 12:47PM. N415MC.
Quoting wn676 (Reply 70):
Great seeing the EK colors here today! Here it is departing to PHL:

Hot damn! I can't believe I am missing all the action in Phoenix this week! Stuck in Ohio till the 30th  

By the way, if you guys haven't noticed, PHXSpotters has recently tapped me as an "admin" for their Facebook page, so you'll be seeing a lot of relays from them on here, and vice versa. I hope you guys hop on over to FB and "like" their page! I know Treebeard and wn76 are active members of the group.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-22 11:05:01 and read 11158 times.

A couple extra UPS flights in today, keep an eye out.

Also United is sending a 763 from ORD today, carrying the Chicago Bears.


Post any peak cargo or charter flights guys! I wanna see them!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-12-23 03:44:00 and read 11042 times.

Is it possible for FLG to ever get any new service? not even on eagle?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-23 04:48:02 and read 11035 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 73):
Is it possible for FLG to ever get any new service? not even on eagle?

I doubt it as there is not the load needed from PHX to FLG. Other than NAU students and then that is only when school is in session.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-23 07:15:56 and read 11027 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 74):
I doubt it as there is not the load needed from PHX to FLG. Other than NAU students and then that is only when school is in session.

This route is going to die when the TUC-PHX-FLG high-speed train goes into effect, as the rumors continually say


Guys, I think today's the last day of peak cargo.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: BD338
Posted 2012-12-23 09:12:38 and read 11003 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 74):I doubt it as there is not the load needed from PHX to FLG. Other than NAU students and then that is only when school is in session.

This route is going to die when the TUC-PHX-FLG high-speed train goes into effect, as the rumors continually say 



In that case it should be safe for the next couple of hundred years   PHX-TUC has been discussed for the past 20 years at least, with practically zero progress. Can't recall PHX-FLG been discussed, the topographic and geographic challenges are very significant.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-24 05:33:26 and read 10892 times.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 76):
In that case it should be safe for the next couple of hundred years PHX-TUC has been discussed for the past 20 years at least, with practically zero progress. Can't recall PHX-FLG been discussed, the topographic and geographic challenges are very significant.

They have been talking about the PHX-TUC train for a long time, but they need to put down a whole new set of tracks because the ones that run between Phoenix and Tucson cannot handle the train's speed. I have never heard of a plan to go to Flag with the rail as the terrain is not conducive to such a mode of transportation as well as there would be very little demand.

Inter-state travel in Arizona is not that big of a draw due to the fact that we all have vehicles. With that being said, I did fly between TUC and PHX when I was younger and love it, but it was only like a 30 minute flight.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-24 09:21:26 and read 10855 times.

Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-24 11:49:58 and read 10802 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78):
Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?

The top at the east or west end?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: DFWneedsQF
Posted 2012-12-24 15:09:14 and read 10762 times.

Did anyone see the World MD-11. I almost was run off the road by cops trying to escort the charter buses full of what I assume were football players. Any more info?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-24 15:30:06 and read 10751 times.

I can tell you for a fact that every OO 200 is close to sold or over booked. Things get interesting when they shut down FLG and you have 4-5 flts canceled

Horizon tried to connect to LAX but was short lived.

I'd like to see service to the Grand Canyon again.... Gone are those days of 737s and even the dc9s from the flying banana etc

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-12-24 15:41:18 and read 10742 times.

Ummmmm, FYI, Tucson's code is "TUS".

bb

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-24 15:44:43 and read 10743 times.

Would another turboprop operator ever come into and serve PHX or even take a risk on IWA and bid for either EaS routes or open new ones/ fly under the express/connection banner of someone

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-24 18:32:09 and read 10717 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 79):
The top at the east or west end?

Both, I tried from the west and east and they had it coned off and signs stating that you needed a badge to get up to the top.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 81):

I'd like to see service to the Grand Canyon again.... Gone are those days of 737s and even the dc9s from the flying banana etc

I thought US did have a flight up to the South Rim, but stopped it pretty quick as it was not very profitable.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 83):
Would another turboprop operator ever come into and serve PHX or even take a risk on IWA and bid for either EaS routes or open new ones/ fly under the express/connection banner of someone

If there is a demand for the flight then someone would/will fill the spot. I wounder if Great Lakes would take that flight, but I think that they would need womething bigger than 1900's

Quoting SANFan (Reply 82):
Ummmmm, FYI, Tucson's code is "TUS".

Thanks, I forgot the proper coding.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-24 18:42:41 and read 10709 times.

WOA MD-11 is from LAN. Michigan State charter.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Cactus742
Posted 2012-12-24 21:08:52 and read 10669 times.

Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-24 21:27:22 and read 10655 times.

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 86):
Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?

It was an A320. First time I've ever seen those foam nozzles actually put to use.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-24 21:30:13 and read 10665 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78):

Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?

The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-25 05:40:45 and read 10606 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 88):
The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.

OK, thanks. I was wondering if it was due to the season and wanting to give employees a place to park closer to the terminal. Do you know if they will open up the upper decks once they are done rewiring the garage?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-25 05:46:41 and read 10611 times.

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 86):
Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?
Quoting wn676 (Reply 87):
It was an A320. First time I've ever seen those foam nozzles actually put to use.

From AZcentral http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...ix-sky-harbor-plane-fire-abrk.html

"The tail of a U.S. Airways plane at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport caught on fire Monday evening, forcing the evacuation of its crew, officials said.

Fire officials were dispatched to Terminal 4 to investigate a possible fuel leak in the aircraft and came upon a small fire in the back of the plane, which fire crews put out, according to Phoenix Fire spokesman Jonathan Jacobs. Flight 504 was scheduled to take off from Phoenix for Vancouver.

Passengers were reportedly boarding when the fire ignited, but US Airways spokeswoman Michelle Mohr later said there were no passengers on the plane. The two pilots and three crew members were evacuated as a precaution, Mohr said.

Jacobs said no one was injured, and that the fire apparently began in the auxiliary power unit of the craft. Mohr described it as a small motor under the plane’s tail that supplies additional power.

The passengers were scheduled to be re-routed to another flight about two hours later, US Airways said."

Would this of been an APU fire?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-25 16:36:44 and read 10543 times.

Merry Christmas all   
I'll be back in the valley on the 30th.

Quoting DFWneedsQF (Reply 80):
Did anyone see the World MD-11. I almost was run off the road by cops trying to escort the charter buses full of what I assume were football players. Any more info?
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78):
Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 81):
I can tell you for a fact that every OO 200 is close to sold or over booked. Things get interesting when they shut down FLG and you have 4-5 flts canceled
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 88):
The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.

When was this? I went to the top of 3 last week and had no issues.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 90):
Would this of been an APU fire?

If its the back or tail of the plane, that's my guess. I'll run a search, but does anyone have a tail number?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-25 16:41:35 and read 10544 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 91):
If its the back or tail of the plane, that's my guess. I'll run a search, but does anyone have a tail number?

It was indeed a tailpipe fire due to a fuel leak. N627AW.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-27 05:30:24 and read 10385 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 91):
When was this? I went to the top of 3 last week and had no issues.

As of 12/21/12 when I was there.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-27 15:38:59 and read 10316 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 89):
OK, thanks. I was wondering if it was due to the season and wanting to give employees a place to park closer to the terminal. Do you know if they will open up the upper decks once they are done rewiring the garage?

Yeah, the levels upper levels will reopen. The upper levels are usually for employees. All sorts of employees us the T3 garage, even some US employees park there.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-12-27 16:02:59 and read 10305 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 94):
Yeah, the levels upper levels will reopen. The upper levels are usually for employees. All sorts of employees us the T3 garage, even some US employees park there.

Whatever happened to the Mojave Employee Parking lot and one other lot I cannot remember it's name.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-27 17:05:30 and read 10294 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 95):
Whatever happened to the Mojave Employee Parking lot and one other lot I cannot remember it's name.

Tonto East? We got moved out of there in summer '09 when the city closed the lot and sent to South Mojave. Then the city closed that lot in summer '11 and we got split between East Economy and T2 Upper.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-27 23:01:17 and read 10241 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 96):
Then the city closed that lot in summer '11 and we got split between East Economy

I heard someone on the Employee...err East Economy Shuttle saying employees are getting moved once the SkyTrain is running.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-28 06:51:22 and read 10173 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 97):
I heard someone on the Employee...err East Economy Shuttle saying employees are getting moved once the SkyTrain is running.

Yep, they built a new surface lot out at 44th/Washington. They've been soliciting for an initial group to move out there. Eventually I've heard they'll build a multi-story garage and move all employees out there over the next couple years.

Word around here is that the train will open on January 8th...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-12-28 10:17:59 and read 10133 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 96):
Tonto East? We got moved out of there in summer '09 when the city closed the lot and sent to South Mojave. Then the city closed that lot in summer '11 and we got split between East Economy and T2 Upper.

What are they using these lots for now? Are they sitting bare and vacant at the moment?

Why can't they do what DEN is doing: Airside Parking and Landside parking.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-28 15:07:39 and read 10076 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 97):

Wouldn't surprise me

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 99):

I don't know. They probably are sitting bare and vacant. I know the old rental car lots off 24th street and FedEx and ups are storing trailers over there

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-28 18:11:16 and read 10023 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 99):
What are they using these lots for now? Are they sitting bare and vacant at the moment?

Yep, bare and vacant for the most part. Tonto East got resurfaced and re-striped about a year ago. Don't know why they would spend all that money after closing it. I noticed there seemed to be some bus driver training going on in Mojave a few days ago as well.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-28 18:15:03 and read 10054 times.

I got booted once from the lot at the end of 26 near 24th street by the fuzz while I was spotting. Its strange because I typically saw spotters there too.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-28 18:21:36 and read 10043 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 102):

I got booted once from the lot at the end of 26 near 24th street by the fuzz while I was spotting. Its strange because I typically saw spotters there too.

Yeah they seem to not like people over in that spot anymore. It's good for a quick shot if you know specifically what you want to get.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-28 20:42:45 and read 10013 times.

Some of you may have noticed how cold it was this morning...

PHX De-ice

 

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-28 22:14:20 and read 9977 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 104):
Some of you may have noticed how cold it was this morning...

Well it is 27 and a winter storm warning..........
Oh wait- I'm in Cincinnati still     

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-29 10:04:49 and read 9913 times.

OK, I have lived in Phoenix for a LONG time and have been here when it snowed, but I would of never thought that PHX would of had De-icing equipment.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-29 12:21:50 and read 9889 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 106):
OK, I have lived in Phoenix for a LONG time and have been here when it snowed, but I would of never thought that PHX would of had De-icing equipment.

They've always had deicing equipment...it's called sunshine!   

Both WN and US have trucks, I'm not sure about the others though. They were out doing frost removal again this morning.

[Edited 2012-12-29 12:23:10]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-12-29 14:41:14 and read 9858 times.

Delta 330-300 on the ground now, came in from LAX earlier today after taking some Badgers fans from MSN for the Rose Bowl. United 772 also coming in tonight from SFO with ASU.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2012-12-29 16:44:27 and read 9810 times.

A Lancair IV-P with three people aboard crashed near San Diego this morning killing all on board. The plane departed Montgomery Field (KMYF) and was enroute to Phoenix Deer Valley Airport (KDVT). The FAA has withheld the aircraft registration until next of kin are notified.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...lane-crash-reported-near-lakeside/

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-29 17:11:15 and read 9799 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 107):
They've always had deicing equipment...it's called sunshine!

That is what I though did our De-icing

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-29 18:37:47 and read 9758 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 104):
Some of you may have noticed how cold it was this morning...

Well it is 27 and a winter storm warning yesterday lol..........
Oh wait

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 108):

Will they be there tomorrow? I come in around 11am on the DL flight from MSP.

Anyone at the airport, be sure to spot me  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2012-12-30 15:51:17 and read 9635 times.

The three people killed in the crash of a Lancair IV-P just outside San Diego have been identified as 65 year old William Stern, Jr. (President of Stern Produce), his wife Jennifer (53) and daughter Katelyn (19).

The aircraft N5M was built in 2003 and it appears that Mr. Stern bought the homebuilt craft in July 2011.

http://www.10news.com/news/arizona-f...orth-of-santee-identified-12302012

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-12-30 17:14:03 and read 9614 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 110):

That is what I though did our De-icing

That's what Mesa uses. I remember one morning we were deicing planes on the mainline side until almost 9AM... let's just say Express had a bad day.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-30 17:25:18 and read 9616 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 113):
That's what Mesa uses. I remember one morning we were deicing planes on the mainline side until almost 9AM... let's just say Express had a bad day.

You know what? Who is actually doing the de-icing? is there a special crew? Or is it just the ground guys? Because at airports like PHX I wouldn't expect anyone to have a specialized de-icing crew that ONLY does de-icing.

This morning at CVG we waited for god knows how long for a crew to get into the trucks and then waited much longer than usual for them to de-ice the CRJ.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-30 17:39:18 and read 9603 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 114):
You know what? Who is actually doing the de-icing? is there a special crew? Or is it just the ground guys? Because at airports like PHX I wouldn't expect anyone to have a specialized de-icing crew that ONLY does de-icing.

Serviceair was doing the US Airways aircraft using US Air equipment. WN has one of their own de-icing trucks that they were using.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Boston
Posted 2012-12-31 08:30:23 and read 9492 times.

Does anyone know how much it's costing DL per day to park that A330 at PHX? In MT where I used to work airport ops, it didn't cost much to park an airplane, but I don't know how much it costs a heavy aircraft at a major airport like PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-31 13:25:10 and read 9430 times.

OK who is doing the charters for the Fiesta Bowl? If you guys got any info, post it here or on the PHX Spotters page! I wanna do some spotting finally    I missed all of the good stuff while in Ohio

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-31 15:55:44 and read 9394 times.

I know Oregon came in on a United 738

K- State came in on a AA 757
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coll...states-top-worry-oregons-pace.html

I still think the best was Michigan State and the MD-11 that stayed here the whole time.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-01 00:42:12 and read 9320 times.

Happy New Year to you guys!

It's been a fun year and I'm really happy to see the contributions to this thread. I have a feeling that by the end of this month we'll be in our 5th thread!

It's a big year for me personally....a big month, actually. I learn on the 29th if my transfer to Japan is finalized or not. If indeed I am going to transfer, my departure from Phoenix will be on March 12, and etween the 29th of this month and March 12, I will be busier than hell trying to sell my stuff here and bringing stuff back to my parents' house in Ohio....so it's going to be busy for me, and I hope you guys step up and fill in for me while I am gone. One of the guys over at PHX Spotters say that he really enjoys the enthusiasm I put into this thread, and I hope you guys contribute more as my contributions begin to fade a bit...but only a bit! I'll definitely still be around, as I said!

While in Japan, I will of course be continuing the thread, as I enjoy staying on top of goings-on out here. I'll also be sharing some photos and what-not from Japan  

If you guys are interested in adding my personal facebook please feel free to drop me a P.M. and I'll send you the link....or if you already know me from the PHX Spotters FB page go ahead and add me. I have albums full of aviation photos (that aren't necessarily A.net worthy   )

Here's to 2013   

-PHX787

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-01 04:22:26 and read 9294 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8606

Is this another Rose bowl(is that what its called?) charter?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-01 04:23:34 and read 9296 times.

Silly me looks like there is 2 of them
Here is the second flight

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8608

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-01 05:07:41 and read 9286 times.

Ok number 3 just took off...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8610

How many more are there?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2013-01-01 05:09:42 and read 9288 times.

Kansas State fan charters. 4 of them, for the Fiesta Bowl.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-01 06:16:55 and read 9277 times.

I have a question about the WN flights. I do not remember WN being that big of a charter provider. Is this a change that has just recently occurred?

I would like to see what people biggest predictions for PHX for 2013.....

I predict that the US/AA merger do not happen due to labor issues. Parker becomes prosona non grada at all events in Tempe and Phoenix. (Hey, one can hope)

HA will start the transition to the A330 from PHX when they change their gate. Hopefully before December of 2013 so that I will be taking that while vacationing on the Big Island for Christmas

[Edited 2013-01-01 06:17:43]

[Edited 2013-01-01 06:18:40]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2013-01-01 08:02:59 and read 9247 times.

WN does a fair amount of charter flying mostly for fans during the bowl season. And for some teams during the regular season. We also do alot of military flying all year round. It's a department that WN is really starting develop, later this year there is hope the -800 is going to be marketed for charter customers.

[Edited 2013-01-01 08:12:20]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-01 09:25:28 and read 9218 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 125):
WN does a fair amount of charter flying mostly for fans during the bowl season. And for some teams during the regular season. We also do alot of military flying all year round. It's a department that WN is really starting develop, later this year there is hope the -800 is going to be marketed for charter customers.

Thank you for the information. I was under the idea that the business plan that WN uses has their planes at optimal usage most of the time and would not allow for much charter work. Do they use any available plane or do they try to use planes that could be flexible. I noticed all the planes coming in from Kansas were 700's and I also could imagine that WN really did not mind to much that the panes were coming into PHX as they could rotate them into the cycles really easily.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2013-01-01 14:41:27 and read 9189 times.

We usually deploy charters from one of our mx bases, there is enough slack in the fleet to cover all this flying given the time of year. Both -300s and -700s are used as charters, no - 500s or -800s (yet). 137 seats are marketed because not all -700s have been converted to the new 143 seat configuration. Also, keep in mind flightaware does not always show the difference between the -300 and -700 for whatever reason. Often times they are listed as -300 but is actually operated by a -700. It's a glitch with the website.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-01 14:53:33 and read 9184 times.

Wouldnt it of been cheaper for them just to get one/two large planes instead of 4 -700s?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2013-01-01 15:43:42 and read 9172 times.

More WN flights/charters came in today from EUG on top of the few that came in 2 days ago. Also, looks like G4 sent a flight to PHX rather than to IWA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-01 16:31:55 and read 9157 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 127):
We usually deploy charters from one of our mx bases, there is enough slack in the fleet to cover all this flying given the time of year. Both -300s and -700s are used as charters, no - 500s or -800s (yet). 137 seats are marketed because not all -700s have been converted to the new 143 seat configuration. Also, keep in mind flightaware does not always show the difference between the -300 and -700 for whatever reason. Often times they are listed as -300 but is actually operated by a -700. It's a glitch with the website.

Thank you for the information. That is partially why I was wondering if they chose WN due to their presence in PHX. Can they still run charters during the summer months with the fleet is maxed out?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-01 19:16:18 and read 9118 times.

Quoting Boston (Reply 116):

I don't know extract rates but it would be much cheaper then parking in LAX. Plus there are a lot of open spaces in PHX vs LAX

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-01-02 00:05:31 and read 9067 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 130):
Can they still run charters during the summer months with the fleet is maxed out?

They often run troop charters during the summer. It's not like every plane is running a full schedule, every day, in the summer.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 128):
Wouldnt it of been cheaper for them just to get one/two large planes instead of 4 -700s?

Not necessarily. It's likely that WN came back with better per person rates than a carrier that could put everyone on a 777 or 767 or something big. Plus the company arranging the charter has to pay for the full plane, not just the seats used.

Just as an aside, these travel packages are not cheap. One package for Oregon State's trip to San Antonio cost $1200+ per person just for PDX-SAT (nonstop) charter airfare. Hotel etc all rolled in put the cost up around $2000 (for a 5 day stay, IIRC). A co-worker who is a diehard Beavs fan just cashed in AS miles and Hilton points and saved a hefty amount of money.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-02 21:08:11 and read 8958 times.

Kindof an odd question, but what are the odds of FX sending a 77F into PHX instead of their MD10s and MD11s?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-03 05:31:10 and read 8885 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 133):

Kindof an odd question, but what are the odds of FX sending a 77F into PHX instead of their MD10s and MD11s?

Low. I'm pretty sure most of them fly to Asia. They wouldn't see enough efficiency gains flying PHX-MEM to warrant a 77F. Their original order was only around 30 + 10 options or something. There isn't a huge difference in cargo capacity 77F vs MD11, so utilizing an aircraft intended for long-haul ops on a medium-haul route would be a waste.

I'm sure the FDX guys around here have more info, but I'd be willing to guess that if one does fly to PHX, it would be for a very specific reason and likely be a one-off.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2013-01-03 05:58:29 and read 8875 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 133):
Kindof an odd question, but what are the odds of FX sending a 77F into PHX instead of their MD10s and MD11s?

Never going to happen.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-03 13:05:23 and read 8824 times.

Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2013-01-03 14:32:30 and read 8814 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 136):
Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.

Most of the "PHX must die!!" nonsense is coming from idiots who never lived here or even been to PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-03 15:41:06 and read 8793 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 137):
Most of the "PHX must die!!" nonsense is coming from idiots who never lived here or even been to PHX.

People immediately think PHX is nothing but dust storms. Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"

PHX is never going to be de-hubbed. The region is growing again, O&D is massive (all the time I hear of overbooked flights) and it's just a good facility. What the Phoenix Airport Board needs to do is upgrade the facilities for US and make sure that these facilities stay top of the line. I think improving the international gates at B would be a step- for example, providing a second jetway at B25 for 747 flights.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 136):
Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.

It's just nonsense to me. If-and I strongly say IF - PHX is de-hubbed, so many airlines will come in to fill the void. AM, DL, F9, B6, UA, WN especially, AC and HA will beef up their service.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2013-01-03 15:54:50 and read 8787 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138):
Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"

When I first moved to PHX in 2002, I was so amazed on how huge that place is. It takes an hour and 15 minutes to get from IWA to Peoria! That's how big the Metro area is.

And Sky Harbor is a very beautiful airport. I miss it dearly!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-03 15:56:39 and read 8781 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138):

It's just nonsense to me. If-and I strongly say IF - PHX is de-hubbed, so many airlines will come in to fill the void. AM, DL, F9, B6, UA, WN especially, AC and HA will beef up their service.

Agree

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138):
People immediately think PHX is nothing but dust storms. Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"

I was on top of T-4 parking garage waiting for my wife to come back from a trip two years ago and a guy from New York game up to look. We started to talk and he wanted to know where the desert was and how far would it take to get there. I told him he was in a desert and he told me I was wrong. I simply asked him what does he mean by a desert and he told me the type in Egypt with all of the sand. I laughed and said that if he wanted to travel to Yuma he could see some sand dunes, but this was the Sonoran Desert and this is what it looked like.

People that have never been to Phoenix or Arizona have no idea of the size of this city. With the population as high as it is and most flights leaving full, if they do cut some capacity it will be taken up by other airlines.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-03 17:33:20 and read 8745 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 140):
With the population as high as it is and most flights leaving full, if they do cut some capacity it will be taken up by other airlines.

Exactly,All these people in the merger threads are saying is that PHX will be De-Hubbed. But im not entirely sure why a merged AA would want to back out of 40 million yearly passengers

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-03 18:03:21 and read 8738 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 141):
Exactly,All these people in the merger threads are saying is that PHX will be De-Hubbed. But im not entirely sure why a merged AA would want to back out of 40 million yearly passengers

Because like everything from the East, we are nothing more than hayseeds. I could see DL, WN, HA and UA increasing at any loss of traffic due to a merger. But what to I know.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-04 06:38:15 and read 8674 times.

First of all, PHX won't be de-hubbed like LAS after the US-HP merger, so any grumblings from the media or a.netters that PHX will be de-hubbed is just wrong. However, it will be downsized IF a merger happens, although I find it highly unlikely that it will receive regulatory approval if things even get that far.

This is where some of you will start to hate me, but I don't care..

PHX is a pretty weak hub. There, I said it. Here's why:


What does PHL and CLT have that PHX doesn't?
- Widebodies
- Actual international service (sorry, Mexico and Canada don't count)
- Growth and expansion of service to new markets

What does PHX have that PHL and CLT don't?
- Competition
- Some cactus


Why do widebodies matter? Widebodies are flagships. Flagships go to places the company cares about. Yeah, yeah...the pilot contracts (or lack thereof) complicate things, but if US wanted widebodies and TATL/TPAC flights from PHX, they would have made it happen by now. The notion that US has made anything more than a half-assed attempt at making any of this happen is a pipe dream.

Why does competition matter? US has operated from PHL and CLT for decades with almost no competition. Last I heard, they account for 85% of the traffic at CLT. Only SEVEN other carriers even serve CLT, three of which are *A partners. PHX has 15 other carriers, and direct competition with a LCC that maintains intense brand loyalty in a leisure market makes it less desirable and far less lucrative.

Even if an AA/US merger were to happen -- which I think is unlikely -- PHX would continue to be the least important hub. DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA, and ORD are markets which will always outperform PHX and already profitably serve a large number of domestic and international destinations. PHL and CLT aren't on-par with with the others, but their status as fortress hubs makes them very valuable.

If a merger happens, it won't be good for PHX. It won't be de-hubbed, but service will be cut and PHX will continue to be the redheaded stepchild.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-04 09:05:59 and read 8637 times.

I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?

I agree that for a true hub, PHX is a weaker one, but also the presence of US in anything further west is weak to non-existent. The :757 to Hawai'i is the farthest west that I believe US fly with its own metal. Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 143):
What does PHX have that PHL and CLT don't?
- Competition
- Some cactus

I think you could also say, a lot more sunshine....

K-State Fans were going home this morning on a Miami Air plane.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BSK621

Saw it while spotting this morning

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-04 13:45:06 and read 8589 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144):
I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?

No. If US wanted to they could make it happen, even with the flight crews split. It wouldn't be the most optimal in terms of crew scheduling, but it's not holding them back from anything.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144):
Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.

Of course not, a TATL flight from PHX would supplement a route already flown from PHL or CLT and would primarily handle west coast/intermountain west connecting traffic.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-04 13:52:29 and read 8593 times.

Oh, almost forgot. G4 was operating a fan charter for Oregon today. The first plane (N864GA) broke and a new one (N417NV) had to be ferried in from LAS. Something you definitely don't see at Sky Harbor that often:

http://i50.tinypic.com/5uofbt.jpg

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-04 13:55:38 and read 8583 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 146):

Great pictures, I was surpised to see that US was handling them...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-04 14:04:00 and read 8570 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 147):
Great pictures, I was surpised to see that US was handling them...

I was too. Thought Servisair would have picked that up. Or that anti ground handling DL...  

[Edited 2013-01-04 14:04:52]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-04 14:42:23 and read 8543 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144):
I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?

I agree that for a true hub, PHX is a weaker one, but also the presence of US in anything further west is weak to non-existent. The :757 to Hawai'i is the farthest west that I believe US fly with its own metal. Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.

It's a division of east and west because they make it a division. Which is exactly why an AA merger probably won't happen. US has been in complete disarray since 2006, but if there were a desire for US to make PHX a *real* hub and if there were money to be made, pilot contracts and annoying technicalities would hardly stop them.

Fact is that US makes more money on every int'l route from PHL and CLT than they could make on routes serving PHX. The increased cost for a longer stage to/from a primarily leisure market makes it less profitable for them from the start. Only 16 aircraft in the US fleet are efficiently capable of PHX-Europe or Asia, of which two would be required to operate a single daily route (anything less than daily would fail).

Post-merger US had a strong foundation of customers from the former America West days and they had opportunities to capitalize on it. Had they attempted PHX-LHR/LGW or FRA in 2006 or 2007, it would have had a more legitimate chance of success than it does now. There were opportunities here for them, but they did what they do best and squandered them.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144):
I think you could also say, a lot more sunshine....

That too! But LAS gets plenty of sunshine and it didn't save them from decimation at the hands of US.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 145):
No. If US wanted to they could make it happen, even with the flight crews split. It wouldn't be the most optimal in terms of crew scheduling, but it's not holding them back from anything.

My point exactly. If they wanted to, they would have. They've failed to make any concerted effort at making something happen, which tells me they just aren't interested.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 146):
Oh, almost forgot. G4 was operating a fan charter for Oregon today. The first plane (N864GA) broke and a new one (N417NV) had to be ferried in from LAS. Something you definitely don't see at Sky Harbor that often:

Looks like IWA. Perhaps PHX's future? (kidding). I've seen them at PHX a few times, but it is rare -- a couple times on charters from Mexico and a while back when IWA had fuel issues. Great photo though...thanks for sharing!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-04 19:35:46 and read 8488 times.

Who handled the K-State 737-800 from Miami Air this morning? I know it came from the north side, but I was shooting at 40th St area and just saw it coming down T taxiway.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 149):
Fact is that US makes more money on every int'l route from PHL and CLT than they could make on routes serving PHX. The increased cost for a longer stage to/from a primarily leisure market makes it less profitable for them from the start. Only 16 aircraft in the US fleet are efficiently capable of PHX-Europe or Asia, of which two would be required to operate a single daily route (anything less than daily would fail).

That is what I was trying to get at, albeit a lot less eloquent than you. The cost was/is too high to have PHX as a gateway to Europe. Also LH pulled out when it was just BA and their selves due to lack of desire for the product. If you already have the infrastructure established in the east where it is more flexible then why not use those resources to their fullest.

Also while it is nice to have direct flight to all locations, sometimes it is not feasible or desirable.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 149):
That too! But LAS gets plenty of sunshine and it didn't save them from decimation at the hands of US.

I could be wrong, but I thought that US pulled back at LAS because of WN's market share and the fact that they were not making as much as they could using the planes of different routes. It also dose not help that there are a lot of LLC's flying from the Phoenix area to LAS.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-04 19:46:43 and read 8492 times.

That sweedish guy in the other thread is a total noob

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-04 19:52:41 and read 8500 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 151):
That sweedish guy in the other thread is a total noob

Yeah really he was pissing me off. Of course it's bias but wouldn't you expect us to know about our own airport better?
BTW- funniest thing I've read all week            

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150):
Also while it is nice to have direct flight to all locations, sometimes it is not feasible or desirable.

Well define 'desirable."

Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far, I'm trying to get someone to start service from here to CVG so I don't have to be a slave to DL's one-hopper system anymore   

Business leaders in CVG were PISSED when they cut this route. Some of the bigger banks are trying to buy PHX service with US or WN to CVG....but I don't think they're doing enough.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-01-05 00:04:06 and read 8441 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152):
Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far

No offense, but just because your friends support the route, does not mean the route will be profitable. Unless you happen to have 300 friends who need to fly daily between the two cities, with 100 or so of them buying full fare business/first seats.  
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150):
It also dose not help that there are a lot of LLC's flying from the Phoenix area to LAS.

There are two airlines that fly PHX-LAS, and Allegiant that flies from Mesa. I wouldn't exactly call it "a lot." US still has a pretty robust schedule between the two places.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-05 00:14:46 and read 8437 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 153):

No offense, but just because your friends support the route, does not mean the route will be profitable.

I hate that word- profitable    That word always comes at the expense of customer service.....

Quoting chrisair (Reply 153):
Unless you happen to have 300 friends who need to fly daily between the two cities, with 100 or so of them buying full fare business/first seats.

Well the 787 in comparison between JL and NH:
NH: 42 — 180 total 222 (The International models)
46 — 112 total 158

JL: 42 — 144 total 186 (only model they have)


I think NH could fill the second international model with no issues. JL shouldn't have an issue either.


Here's the thing a lot of reports I've read have said..... people want more options between Asia and the US other than LAX, SFO, and SEA.

SAN is now an option, same with SJC. DEN soon, so why not PHX?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-05 04:43:27 and read 8405 times.

I still think that the best option for PHX is to be the termination point of a intermediate flight from NRT like a NRT-LAX-PHX or NRT-SAN-PHX. Use this as a test market for expansion. If it proves to be a good route move to a direct NRT-PHX.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152):
Well define 'desirable."

Profitable, Money is king

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 151):
That sweedish guy in the other thread is a total noob

The problem with PHX is people think it is still a small city. We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming. We have companies coming to Phoenix metro area all of the time. As a person that has lived here for 40 years, I have seen the ebbs and flows in the size of Phoenix. While I can see that there is more market demand here from people, how much that can translate into service is unknown.

The really funny thing is when you look at the population difference between Las Vegas (1.6 million) and Phoenix (4.7 million) and the growth over the last 10 years LAS 36.9% and PHX 33%. When discussing thing with people they cannot give a good explanation on why hub exist at places that they always have. Once it is established they very rarely go away. Cleveland and Philly are the same distance apart as PHX and LAX, but they would never think that these are redundant hubs.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-05 05:57:37 and read 8394 times.

In defense of the Sweedish noob, his comments pertained to the survival of the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network. This is a very different situation than saying the city of PHX cannot support a hub (which we all know it can, including Mark).

The problem with the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network is that it is wedged between LAX and DFW. The question to ask yourself is what connecting traffic flows can only be served by the PHX hub. Then ask yourself whether these few connecting traffic flows that can only be handled by PHX warrant the existence of the hub. Keep in mind hubs are costly and profitability means more than whether the combined carrier can fly a passenger from a select few points around the southwest (ie. ELP-SLC or TUS-GJT).

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-05 11:07:45 and read 8343 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 156):
The problem with the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network is that it is wedged between LAX and DFW. The question to ask yourself is what connecting traffic flows can only be served by the PHX hub. Then ask yourself whether these few connecting traffic flows that can only be handled by PHX warrant the existence of the hub. Keep in mind hubs are costly and profitability means more than whether the combined carrier can fly a passenger from a select few points around the southwest (ie. ELP-SLC or TUS-GJT).

That is the problem is that, in a US/AA combined market, PHX is redundant and in the middle of their strongholds of LAX and DFW. I also look at it this way, if US/AA dose reduce its service from PHX, WN, DL and UA will take up the slack. I think that the biggest winner would be WN.



Hubs
DL- SLC
UA - SFO, LAX, IAH (This would put PHX in the same situation as with AA/US)

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-05 11:28:06 and read 8333 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 157):
That is the problem is that, in a US/AA combined market, PHX is redundant and in the middle of their strongholds of LAX and DFW. I also look at it this way, if US/AA dose reduce its service from PHX, WN, DL and UA will take up the slack. I think that the biggest winner would be WN.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 157):
Hubs
DL- SLC
UA - SFO, LAX, IAH (This would put PHX in the same situation as with AA/US)

Wait a second here:

UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.

LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.

I don't see a problem.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-05 16:28:28 and read 8285 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 148):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 147):
Great pictures, I was surpised to see that US was handling them...

I was too. Thought Servisair would have picked that up. Or that anti ground handling DL...  

haha, I recall saying something on instagram about that hmm.....   

Speaking of servisair, the past couple nights HA has been parked on gate 26 on T3 north and after the plane lands it will sit 10 to 15 minutes waiting for a crew to park it.... that is unacceptable

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 149):
Looks like IWA. Perhaps PHX's future? (kidding).

You never know... Maybe they will do a split operation like what G4 had in SFB and MCO....

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152):
I'm trying to get someone to start service from here to CVG so I don't have to be a slave to DL's one-hopper system anymore  

The route will be back for spring training.. I think a daily DCI flight would work like the daily 9E flight to MEM but I just throw bags what do I know.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-05 16:52:29 and read 8279 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 158):
Wait a second here:

UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.

LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.

I don't see a problem.

Yes, but US/AA would need and want to keep PHX at the level it is now. There would have to be come redundancy in the AA and US flights in PHX. To have major presence/hubs in LAX, PHX and DFW I think is too much.

This being said, I still have my doubts that there will even be a merger between US and AA. The longer the time in bankruptcy court and showing the creditors and the courts that they can turn a profit without a US presence.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: steex
Posted 2013-01-05 17:04:22 and read 8266 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152):
Of course it's bias but wouldn't you expect us to know about our own airport better?

No, I wouldn't. There are a lot of people here who do a lot of data analysis, planning, and other work for airlines or aviation consultants. At your urging in the JAL thread, I've read through this thread and it is rife with speculation based on less important numbers (such as total airport throughput and metro population) and anecdotal evidence such as what your "contacts" say while ignoring fares, yields, actual market demand, etc. The fact that people here have a specific interest in PHX doesn't mean they know better than people who have a specific knowledge of the industry.

Quoting EricR (Reply 156):

In defense of the Sweedish noob, his comments pertained to the survival of the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network. This is a very different situation than saying the city of PHX cannot support a hub (which we all know it can, including Mark).

In further defense, he is one of the more knowledgeable members on a.net and has demonstrated considerable knowledge of international markets as well as American Airlines. I don't think Mark is suggesting PHX can't support a hub, he may instead acknowledge that it is currently supporting TWO hubs (let's not forget WN), and a combined AA/US may not fight it out with WN for market share if they can handle volume through DFW and LAX while just keeping enough service to maintain the high-yield traffic at PHX.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155):
The problem with PHX is people think it is still a small city. We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming. We have companies coming to Phoenix metro area all of the time. As a person that has lived here for 40 years, I have seen the ebbs and flows in the size of Phoenix. While I can see that there is more market demand here from people, how much that can translate into service is unknown.

I don't think anybody thinks Phoenix is a small city, but if you're going to site Phoenix based on its metro population of 4.7 million people, you should at least acknowledge that it is the 14th largest metro area (barely behind Seattle-Tacoma) as opposed to the 8th largest city. There is plenty of market at Phoenix, but it has a distinct domestic tilt and hasn't had the greatest international yields.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155):
Cleveland and Philly are the same distance apart as PHX and LAX, but they would never think that these are redundant hubs.

Many people do think that CLE is a redundant hub to ORD and EWR (better comps since they are hubs for the same airline), but part of the difference is that the population in the eastern portion of the country is far more dense. There isn't nearly as much population base between PHX and DFW as there is between CLE and EWR, for example. Regardless, I think a lot of people would concede that PHX will maintain a hub the size of CLE (or likely larger) in a combined AA/US, so I'm not sure that comp demonstrates much of a point.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 158):
Wait a second here:

UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.

LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.

I don't see a problem.

PHX is no SFO or LAX, even you have to admit that. Yields and O&D traffic are clearly higher out of both metro areas, and that's especially true when it comes to international demand. PHX would likely maintain a place in a combined network, but not the same prominence.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-05 17:56:15 and read 8254 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 159):
Speaking of servisair, the past couple nights HA has been parked on gate 26 on T3 north and after the plane lands it will sit 10 to 15 minutes waiting for a crew to park it.... that is unacceptable

So HA is already at 3N?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-01-05 20:43:05 and read 8233 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155):
We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming.

Sixth, right behind Philly. http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...s-6-sixth-largest-city-census.html

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-01-05 20:46:38 and read 8226 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155):
I still think that the best option for PHX is to be the termination point of a intermediate flight from NRT like a NRT-LAX-PHX or NRT-SAN-PHX. Use this as a test market for expansion. If it proves to be a good route move to a direct NRT-PHX.


On several occasions I've mentioned (on this thread) that foreign flags very rarely do US tag-ons any more. (I can't think of any in place now. Can anyone?) They are simply not economically feasible -- or necessary -- any more.

PHX tagged onto LAX, SFO, or even SAN is not going to happen. (I assume you've noticed that none of the many cx serving TYO-LAX/SFO apparently has thought this to be a viable option to serve the Asia-PHX market -- whatever it may be...)

bb

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-06 08:04:59 and read 8162 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 164):

On several occasions I've mentioned (on this thread) that foreign flags very rarely do US tag-ons any more. (I can't think of any in place now. Can anyone?) They are simply not economically feasible -- or necessary -- any more.

PR had a YVR-LAS tag for awhile but I believe they stopped it. KE in the past served LAS from ICN as a tag on from LAX but its now a non-stop from ICN. I want to say that there was a NRT-LAX-LAS tag before too. The only one I know is still being flown today is QF LAX-JFK run, but you can't book it from LAX you have to start at SYD or JFK. I do agree with you however, a tag-on in today's market isn't viable, certainly not so for the small PHX-NRT market size.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-06 11:09:27 and read 8129 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 162):

For the inbound then it gets towed off the gate.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-06 12:17:04 and read 8107 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 166):

When did they start doing this? Last I was at the airport at such a deathly hour it taxiied to T3S directly.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-01-06 12:25:15 and read 8108 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 165):
PR had a YVR-LAS tag for awhile but I believe they stopped it. KE in the past served LAS from ICN as a tag on from LAX but its now a non-stop from ICN. I want to say that there was a NRT-LAX-LAS tag before too. The only one I know is still being flown today is QF LAX-JFK run, but you can't book it from LAX you have to start at SYD or JFK. I do agree with you however, a tag-on in today's market isn't viable, certainly not so for the small PHX-NRT market size.

The PR tag between YVR and Vegas was a bit different as PR could carry local traffic over the segment (although it was limited.) You're absolutely right about QF; that's been around so long that I forgot about it.

There certainly have been many in the past, including PHX-SAN on Speedbird years ago. With the economics of today, plus all the alliances and marketing arrangements in place, it would be unnecessary as well as a major waste of $$ for a foreign flag to fly a nearly-empty jet (due to no local traffic rights) on a relatively short segment within the US.

bb

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2013-01-06 12:49:20 and read 8101 times.

I was in El Paso over the Holidays and spotted this AN-124 at Biggs Army Air Field. Not the best quaity because we were driving as the photos where taken. Note the C-17 that is parked next to and behind the 124. This is not KPHX related but I wanted to share.

AN-124 KBIF Dec 26th 2012
AN-124 KBIF Dec26th 2012


[Edited 2013-01-06 12:50:49]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-06 15:41:13 and read 8063 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 169):
I was in El Paso over the Holidays and spotted this AN-124 at Biggs Army Air Field. Not the best quaity because we were driving as the photos where taken. Note the C-17 that is parked next to and behind the 124. This is not KPHX related but I wanted to share.

You're from az lol

That's impressive actually

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-07 18:27:27 and read 7939 times.

Acc to the oag thread UA is adding another flight to PHX soon

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-07 20:11:37 and read 7902 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 171):
Acc to the oag thread UA is adding another flight to PHX soon

What kind of route?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-07 20:29:16 and read 7915 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 172):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 171):
Acc to the oag thread UA is adding another flight to PHX soon

What kind of route?


DEN-PHX Now to 5 daily

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-01-07 22:23:00 and read 7875 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 173):
DEN-PHX Now to 5 daily

Great. When will T2 get PreCheck, like it was supposed to in October?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2013-01-08 18:25:55 and read 7777 times.

Based on flight aware data there are already 23 flights a day between Untied, USairways, Frontier and Southwest. Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-01-08 18:36:19 and read 7766 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 163):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155):
We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming.

Sixth, right behind Philly. http://www.azcentral.com/community/p....html


City proper doesn't matter. It's 12th in urban area and 14th in metro.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-08 18:37:17 and read 7780 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 175):
Based on flight aware data there are already 23 flights a day between Untied, USairways, Frontier and Southwest. Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?

I don't know the numbers, but every time I have flown up to DEN the flight is usually full. UA has used 752s on the route and currently has a 739 on one of the frequencies. PHX-DEN is one of the most popular routes out of PHX in terms of passengers and available flights. There have been 3-4 airlines serving the route daily for close to a decade now.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-08 19:58:35 and read 7751 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 167):

I guess it depends on what B6 operations are doing since both airlines share a gate... But I heard that the HA A330 will start service to PHX next year

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2013-01-08 20:53:45 and read 7718 times.

Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21 and things got interesting the other night with westjet coming in at the same time. Any updates on sky train?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2013-01-08 23:10:28 and read 7687 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 175):
Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?

Yep. All of The UA and F9 flights between the two cities are packed to the gills!!!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-01-08 23:24:05 and read 7679 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 179):
Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21

B21 isn't an FIS gate, maybe you're thinking of B23?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-09 09:43:57 and read 7612 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 179):

Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21 and things got interesting the other night with westjet coming in at the same time.

That was a one-off charter, and they used B23.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-11 10:15:28 and read 7522 times.

Apparently an AY ERJ is at cutter this weekend. When is it coming in and departing?

I'll be at 40th this Sunday filming. Check the PHXspotters page on FB for more info.

Edit:
Looks like AY is landing this afternoon at 1:20.

[Edited 2013-01-11 10:45:39]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-11 16:17:26 and read 7449 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 178):
I guess it depends on what B6 operations are doing since both airlines share a gate... But I heard that the HA A330 will start service to PHX next year

Good, then next December I can fly HA's 330 to the island for Christmas.....

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2013-01-11 18:52:11 and read 7405 times.

Check again westjet uses b21 we can't part there after 1900. I know it's it a customs gate and they don't tow it over from one of the end fis gates.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-11 19:10:04 and read 7393 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 185):

The guy I saw today was at B23 but left after an hour on the ground.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-11 19:48:02 and read 7383 times.

does anybody have more information about Piedmont starting service to PHX "effective january 2013" according to the western option in the route map

http://www.piedmont-airlines.com/routes.shtml

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-11 20:10:52 and read 7375 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 187):

does anybody have more information about Piedmont starting service to PHX "effective january 2013" according to the western option in the route map

http://www.piedmont-airlines.com/routes.shtml


Piedmont does customer service here and ramp service for US Airways. Mesa and Skywest are the only US regionals at PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-11 20:26:00 and read 7358 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 185):

Check again westjet uses b21 we can't part there after 1900. I know it's it a customs gate and they don't tow it over from one of the end fis gates.

WS is able to use B21 nightly for their YYC turn because they preclear in Calgary. It's not an FIS gate. 5D had a charter flight that came in around 18:30 on 1/5 from HMO and used B23. Their regular HMO flight hasn't left later than ~15:45 in the last two weeks.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2013-01-11 20:30:23 and read 7345 times.

Thanks for the info on WS.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-11 21:19:49 and read 7326 times.

Anyone have an update on when AY is departing tomorrow?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-11 23:23:31 and read 7307 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 187):
does anybody have more information about Piedmont starting service to PHX "effective january 2013" according to the western option in the route map

http://www.piedmont-airlines.com/routes.shtml

Look at the map legend. Their entire Western Operation is customer service/ground handling only.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 188):
Piedmont does customer service here and ramp service for US Airways. Mesa and Skywest are the only US regionals at PHX.

They only do ramp and gates for Express. US has their own mainline employees.

[Edited 2013-01-11 23:26:26]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-12 05:14:53 and read 7278 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 191):
Anyone have an update on when AY is departing tomorrow?

FIN-8921 PHX - CYYR (Goose Bay, Canada) Departure time 07:10 MST

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-12 05:24:07 and read 7273 times.

Looking through the departures today, I stumbled across this one.
LAN - 8250 PHX - MIA 738 - 09:25

It seems to be a daily thing, so is this simply a flightaware error or is this a code share that shows up for some reason on flightaware?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-01-12 05:34:01 and read 7261 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 194):

Codeshare with AA

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-12 06:19:38 and read 7259 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 195):

Thanks, I was wondering why LAN and AA has flight leaving at the same time both going to MIA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-12 09:37:45 and read 7216 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 192):

They only do ramp and gates for Express. US has their own mainline employees.

You are correct, I should have specified Express in my post.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: BA744PHX
Posted 2013-01-13 09:29:30 and read 7090 times.

Does anyone know how Spirit doing on DEN-AZA and ORD-AZA?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-13 12:13:41 and read 7041 times.

C-17 just landed over my house 3 min ago

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2013-01-13 13:32:03 and read 7008 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 199):
C-17 just landed over my house 3 min ago

I hope it flew over your house and didn't land on it!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-13 15:56:01 and read 6984 times.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 200):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 199):
C-17 just landed over my house 3 min ago

I hope it flew over your house and didn't land on it!

I was thinking the same thing or wondering if ther is a new VTOL C-17.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2013-01-13 15:58:50 and read 7021 times.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 198):

Does anyone know how Spirit doing on DEN-AZA and ORD-AZA?

Im guessing they are doing good on AZA-DEN because F9 got scared off and declared the route seasonal

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-13 16:10:44 and read 7009 times.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 200):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 199):
C-17 just landed over my house 3 min ago

I hope it flew over your house and didn't land on it!


Hahahahah it was low enough  


Any idea when it's taking off???

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2013-01-15 18:16:10 and read 6846 times.

Can you guys answer this question about the A380 in Arizona??

A380 In Arizona? (by OldAeroGuy Jan 15 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-15 18:21:44 and read 6833 times.

I heard a cargo 747 was going to Marana but I am not sure.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: infiniti329
Posted 2013-01-15 18:44:31 and read 6813 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain

What cargo airline is this?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-15 18:45:45 and read 6814 times.

I forgot but it was just heard through the wayside. Did Southern retire anything today?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-15 20:48:09 and read 6776 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 206):
Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain

What cargo airline is this?


It's Ameriflight, a cargo carrier that operates to smaller community's in the area.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-18 23:26:52 and read 6563 times.

So why did the BA 744 take off so late today? The weather today was perfect; is it the snow in London?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW288

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: steex
Posted 2013-01-18 23:52:52 and read 6556 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 209):
So why did the BA 744 take off so late today? The weather today was perfect; is it the snow in London?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW288

Arrival into PHX was a few hours late due to LHR delays.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...9/history/20130118/1505Z/EGLL/KPHX

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2013-01-19 19:41:18 and read 6427 times.

With the NHL playing again, will the Coyotes have the 727 as the team plane this year?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-19 19:50:28 and read 6420 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 211):
With the NHL playing again, will the Coyotes have the 727 as the team plane this year?

Yup. They just used it to fly to DAL to play the Stars.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/P...8/history/20130118/2000Z/KPHX/KDAL

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-19 20:24:09 and read 6407 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 212):
Yup. They just used it to fly to DAL to play the Stars.

Looks like he is coming in around midnight tonight

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: mach2is2slowAZ
Posted 2013-01-20 22:03:40 and read 6280 times.

Slow day in PHX aviation news.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-01-20 22:18:29 and read 6279 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 178):

No it is not. It seems to always come up, for reasons I can't understand, but no A330 for PHX in 2013 with current planning.

The 767 is serving PHX just fine.

That being said, do people see WN flying PHX-Hawaii at all?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-21 04:23:41 and read 6223 times.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 215):
That being said, do people see WN flying PHX-Hawaii at all?

I can see it as an originating portion for a flight, but not a direct to Hawai'i. I can see a
PHX-ONT-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH),
PHX-SAN-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH)
PHX-OAK-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH)

My question about this on WN would be if this is going to far out of their business model? They are going to have to have planes just on these routes and that seems to go against the model of having flexibility in their fleet.

Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-21 05:06:07 and read 6215 times.

News is reporting that the 787 investigation is going to go to a company in Southern Arizona. They will be going to the company in Tucson where the battery chargers are manufactured and then test them up in Phoenix.

I could not find anything in the newspaper yet.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-21 08:33:01 and read 6131 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?

I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2013-01-21 11:18:41 and read 6083 times.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 215):
No it is not. It seems to always come up, for reasons I can't understand, but no A330 for PHX in 2013 with current planning.

I was talking about next year(2014). I heard that from a line mech that the A330 will be coming to PHX.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 215):
The 767 is serving PHX just fine.

True but aren't the 763s on their way out at HA?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-21 14:40:12 and read 6029 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 218):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?

I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.

If HA were to use the 321NEO here to PHX, I'd expect they would run more then one daily flight. I think they would run a schedule closer to what US Airways does with the 752, with 2-3 daily PHX-HNL flights. It would actually be an up-gauge if they run more flights with a smaller aircraft, more frequencies means more flight time options for passengers. An A330 may have more prestige, but it will ultimately be a business decision on what makes the most money.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-01-21 19:25:02 and read 5992 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?

I know A LOT more on the NEO's than I feel comfortable sharing, so I can't say. I would not rule that out though. Can't really rule anything out per se...

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 218):
I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.

I don't know about "lucrative" (as in printing money), but I would agree that it won't be down-guaged.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 219):
I was talking about next year(2014). I heard that from a line mech that the A330 will be coming to PHX.

That could be. I can't speak to that because the extent on my financial planning works on a calender year basis.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 219):
True but aren't the 763s on their way out at HA?

They are, but not all at once of course. 4 this year and then some more as we go on and more 330's come aboard.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 220):
An A330 may have more prestige, but it will ultimately be a business decision on what makes the most money.

True...and don't forget, we are still in the running for a bunch of A350's. That being said, AT SOME POINT 5-6 years from now, the A330 will be the down-gauge aircraft. Funny when you think about the future of aviation  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-22 02:56:19 and read 5936 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150):
That is what I was trying to get at, albeit a lot less eloquent than you. The cost was/is too high to have PHX as a gateway to Europe. Also LH pulled out when it was just BA and their selves due to lack of desire for the product. If you already have the infrastructure established in the east where it is more flexible then why not use those resources to their fullest.

Eloquent? You are far too kind. I agree with all of your points. BA makes it work somehow, but they're actually a good airline. I would only spend 12 hours on a PHX-Europe flight operated by US if it were either against my will or very, very cheap. Like free. Or maybe they pay me. I think I'd rather get bird flu though.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152):
Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far

Is this one of those psychological tricks that if you say it enough times, it'll become true? It never worked for me. I kept saying over and over that Mila Kunis would be waiting for me with a sandwich when I get home, but it still hasn't happened. PHX-NRT wouldn't even survive with a B788. There's literally no market for it, despite your insistence. Airlines have to make something called money, and on a route like that, they'd be better off taking cash and using as insulation to fix their 788 batteries. PHX-FRA has a remote chance of surviving. Maybe. PHX-NRT would be DOA.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 154):
I hate that word- profitable    That word always comes at the expense of customer service.....

You are aware of how businesses work, right? The pre-1978 regulated days were cool and all except you'd never be able to afford to fly because profitable didn't matter. "Profitable" means you can afford to fly with a brief layover in Chicago. If you want direct flights to NRT or wherever, try moving to LA.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 158):
Wait a second here:
UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.
LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.
I don't see a problem.

I see a problem. Los Angeles and San Francisco > Phoenix in pretty much every category of everything. Also, UA is a real airline. US is not. LAX is not a stronghold for AA, but they have a decent market share and have for a very long time with a loyal customer base. Travelers in PHX are *maybe* loyal to WN. US is still a relatively new thing here, and everyone loyal to HP has since moved on because US is a far cry from the old HP. If AA moved here, it would only get worse. For airlines to succeed in a city they don't already hold a commanding market share, there HAS to be a loyalty base. VFR travelers bring no money -- which is basically the entire PHX market. Elites account for less than 5% of ticket sales but more than 1/3 of the revenue. No elites means no money. Case and point: PIT, CLE, CVG, MEM, LAS. PHX isn't that bad, but close.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 174):
Great. When will T2 get PreCheck, like it was supposed to in October?

Ain't happening. I'm pissed. I got four different excuses ranging from, "there's a glitch" to "there's not enough space", but the most recent one is "no one in T2 qualifies". What a load of BS. He said they did a survey for *a day* (typical diligent TSA) and had only 30 people who qualified or something. They still have Pre-Check signs up too which is really annoying.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 198):
Does anyone know how Spirit doing on DEN-AZA and ORD-AZA?

I don't have numbers, but I know they have been unable to match the success of G4. They've done better than F9, but that's like saying they've done better than the Cards did this season.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 204):

Can you guys answer this question about the A380 in Arizona??

Tucson area makes me think MZJ, which makes me think Dreamlifter. It's a fat piece of crap so I can understand how one might mistake it for the A380, which obviously has similar aesthetic attributes. The Dreamlifter was at MZJ until about two years ago when Boeing found some sleazy loophole and transferred its flying from Evergreen to Atlas.

I suppose there's a chance it was the doomsday machine (aka E-4). I've seen it at DM a couple of times in the past.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: 4holer
Posted 2013-01-22 06:01:39 and read 5917 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 222):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 204):

Can you guys answer this question about the A380 in Arizona??

Tucson area makes me think MZJ, which makes me think Dreamlifter. It's a fat piece of crap so I can understand how one might mistake it for the A380, which obviously has similar aesthetic attributes. The Dreamlifter was at MZJ until about two years ago when Boeing found some sleazy loophole and transferred its flying from Evergreen to Atlas.

I suppose there's a chance it was the doomsday machine (aka E-4). I've seen it at DM a couple of times in the past.

As I'd mentioned in the other thread, a 747SP left MZJ that morning. It's proportions would definitely look like an A380. I'd put money on that being what he saw.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-22 08:08:10 and read 5884 times.

"If HA were to use the 321NEO here to PHX, I'd expect they would run more then one daily flight. I think they would run a schedule closer to what US Airways does with the 752, with 2-3 daily PHX-HNL flights. It would actually be an up-gauge if they run more flights with a smaller aircraft, more frequencies means more flight time options for passengers. An A330 may have more prestige, but it will ultimately be a business decision on what makes the most money."

That was what I was thinking. Since HA will have the 767 leaving the fleet and the 330 and 350 in the fleet they could run the 321NEO on PHX to the island like US and give direct competition to US. I have a lot of friends who have flower on US simply because they got a direct flight to either OGG, LIH, OR KOA. This then could also free up the longer legs of the 330 on different routes.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-22 12:21:15 and read 5838 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 222):
BA makes it work somehow

BA makes it work because it's the only airline in Phoenix that serves the largest international market outside of North America. Every day they have, on average, a pool of about 120 local passegers to draw from in addition to another 350 to 400 pax bound for destinations throughout Europe/ME/Africa. They're bound to have some pretty decent pricing power in that position.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-22 12:37:52 and read 5819 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 222):
UA is a real airline. US is not.

I'm curious, why do you think US isn't a real airline? I've flown them many times, including trans-Atlantic and have found their service to be as good as the other US majors, and sometimes better. US has large hubs, a large fleet and international service, what makes them not real?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-22 16:00:02 and read 5795 times.

Fox 10 showing a chopper crash in Mesa

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-01-22 16:20:58 and read 5783 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 227):
Fox 10 showing a chopper crash in Mesa
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...s-in-mesa-neighborhood-no-one-hurt

Looks like he lost power and made a successful autorotation landing.

However, about an hour ago they called for the fire department again because there was still a puddle of avgas on the street. Somebody forgot the kitty litter  

Oh well, at least it's right next to a fire hydrant.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-01-22 17:28:40 and read 5752 times.

From the Fox 10 article:

"After the crash, the pilot was seen trying to disassemble the homemade plane so it could be removed from the sidewalk."


Hope he notified the NTSB first...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-22 18:02:52 and read 5733 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 229):
"After the crash, the pilot was seen trying to disassemble the homemade plane so it could be removed from the sidewalk."

Oh that could be a bad move. But it was home-made.....

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-22 22:14:13 and read 5700 times.

Anyone know why BA289 isn't operating tuesdays anymore?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: atcsundevil
Posted 2013-01-22 23:10:43 and read 5688 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 223):
As I'd mentioned in the other thread, a 747SP left MZJ that morning. It's proportions would definitely look like an A380. I'd put money on that being what he saw.

For some reason I though that thread was from a while back, so I'm an idiot. I don't know where in TUS they were, but if it was anything north of TUS I'd buy your SP idea, because MZJ has random bigguns that fly in/out all the time. South TUS might have something to do with DM, like the E-5. It'll be a long time before that area ever sees an A380, despite my belief that they should all be immediately and unceremoniously scrapped at MZJ. Good for the economy, ya know.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 225):
BA makes it work because it's the only airline in Phoenix that serves the largest international market outside of North America.

That was the point I was trying to make. I didn't mean to say that BA somehow makes it work as if they couldn't -- if any airline could make PHX-LHR work, it would be them. My point was that US probably couldn't make it work and that PHX to any int'l market on any carrier except to Mexico or Canada isn't easy to make work. Also, BA has an excellent long-haul product and US just doesn't. I did about 100k on BA in J/Y in the late 90s to mid 2000s and can attest to that firsthand.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
I'm curious, why do you think US isn't a real airline? I've flown them many times, including trans-Atlantic and have found their service to be as good as the other US majors, and sometimes better.

I'm not saying their onboard service is any better or worse compared to other US majors. Their international network is a joke, their fleet is almost entirely domestic narrowbody aircraft, they've operationally functioned (or dysfunctioned, rather) as two separate airlines for nearly a decade post-merger, and they have the audacity to pretend to be an LCC which is completely ridiculous. What makes it even more ridiculous is their stock symbol trying to reinforce that sham. They aren't even in the same league as DL, UA, or AA. I'd even consider WN to be a more legitimate company, and I am hardly a WN fan.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
US has large hubs

They have two fortress hubs in relatively unimportant cities. At their third hub, they've made zero effort to expand service post-merger. They don't operate a single hub larger than hubs operated by UA, DL, or AA -- of those, many operate several hubs larger than any US hub... ORD, LAX, ATL, JFK, EWR, SFO, DFW, or IAH, just to name a few.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
a large fleet

Let's do a little comparison...
DL - Fleet of 721 aircraft including 159 widebodies (22% of the fleet)
UA - Fleet of 705 aircraft including 160 widebodies (23% of the fleet)
AA - Fleet of 605 aircraft including 121 widebodies (20% of the fleet)
WN - Fleet of 584 aircraft
EV - Fleet of 434 aircraft
US - Fleet of 335 aircraft including 18 widebodies (8% of the fleet)

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
international service

Their international network serves 18 cities outside of North/Central America. UA serves 19 cities outside of North/Central America just from IAD.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-01-23 11:57:15 and read 5598 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
Their international network is a joke
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
their fleet is almost entirely domestic narrowbody aircraft
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
I'd even consider WN to be a more legitimate company

I'm a little confused here. You bash US for having a crappy international network and mostly domestic narrowbody planes, and you think an airline with no international network and all domestic narrowbodies (of one type) is better because....???

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
they've operationally functioned (or dysfunctioned, rather) as two separate airlines for nearly a decade post-merger

Sorry, the statistics don't back that one up.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
and they have the audacity to pretend to be an LCC which is completely ridiculous.

I'll give you that one, although that is purely marketing hype.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
relatively unimportant cities.

I dare you to go to CLT and PHL and call them "unimportant".

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
They don't operate a single hub larger than hubs operated by UA, DL, or AA

False. CLT is over twice the size of the AA hub at LAX, and larger than DL's hub at SLC. I think PHL is larger than SLC as well.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
Let's do a little comparison...

  

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):

DL - Fleet of 721 aircraft including 159 widebodies (22% of the fleet)

Merged with NW in 2008. Two airlines worth of aircraft.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):

UA - Fleet of 705 aircraft including 160 widebodies (23% of the fleet)

Merged with CO in 2010. Two airlines worth of aircraft.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):

AA - Fleet of 605 aircraft including 121 widebodies (20% of the fleet)

Was for a long time the largest carrier in the US.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
WN - Fleet of 584 aircraft

The only "major" that operates exclusively mainline aircraft.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2013-01-23 12:26:01 and read 5578 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):

They have two fortress hubs in relatively unimportant cities. At their third hub, they've made zero effort to expand service post-merger. They don't operate a single hub larger than hubs operated by UA, DL, or AA -- of those, many operate several hubs larger than any US hub... ORD, LAX, ATL, JFK, EWR, SFO, DFW, or IAH, just to name a few.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
a large fleet

Let's do a little comparison...
DL - Fleet of 721 aircraft including 159 widebodies (22% of the fleet)
UA - Fleet of 705 aircraft including 160 widebodies (23% of the fleet)
AA - Fleet of 605 aircraft including 121 widebodies (20% of the fleet)
WN - Fleet of 584 aircraft
EV - Fleet of 434 aircraft
US - Fleet of 335 aircraft including 18 widebodies (8% of the fleet)

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 226):
international service

Their international network serves 18 cities outside of North/Central America. UA serves 19 cities outside of North/Central America just from IAD.

So to be a "real" airline you have to have over 500 aircraft with 100s of widebodies and have hubs at the largest cities in the country and a huge international network? US just posted a 45M profit in Q4 2012, I'd call that pretty real. Fleet size and international network don't necessarily make a good airline. Look at the state AA is in, bankruptcy and labor issues, UA isn't known for quality of service and has had problems with their merger, DL and WN have been the most consistent of the ones you posted. I consider US to be very real, and I'd rather fly with them over AA or UA. We will have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-01-23 12:37:15 and read 5571 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 234):
So to be a "real" airline you have to have over 500 aircraft with 100s of widebodies and have hubs at the largest cities in the country and a huge international network?

Unless you're WN:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
I'd even consider WN to be a more legitimate company

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-23 12:40:27 and read 5574 times.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
That was the point I was trying to make. I didn't mean to say that BA somehow makes it work as if they couldn't -- if any airline could make PHX-LHR work, it would be them. My point was that US probably couldn't make it work and that PHX to any int'l market on any carrier except to Mexico or Canada isn't easy to make work.

Just about any major airline could make PHX-LON work with those numbers, that was my point. And I doubt US is as terrible and mentally deficient as you make it out to be, otherwise they wouldn't be recording the highest profit margins of any U.S. carrier currently across the Atlantic. Believe it or not, they do actually know what they're doing. But more to the point, the reason why PHX doesn't have any other long haul service, from BA, US, or any other, has nothing to do with the supposed quality of their product or prestige surrounding an airline's name or brand. If the economics of the valley could support it, I think US would have no problem operating a couple of long-haul routes, or even London alongside BA.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
of those, many operate several hubs larger than any US hub... ORD, LAX, ATL, JFK, EWR, SFO, DFW, or IAH, just to name a few.

Try again. In terms of seats, CLT is the third largest hub in the country behind ATL and DFW. US at PHL outranks UA at DEN and SFO, and even US at PHX outranks AA and DL at JFK as well as UA and AA at LAX.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
and they have the audacity to pretend to be an LCC which is completely ridiculous.

Why? They are a famously cheap airline with some of the lowest labor costs in the industry, and continue to post some of the lowest CASM growth numbers out of any major airline in the U.S.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 232):
they've made zero effort to expand service post-merger.

Their third hub was overserved and bleeding money at the time of the merger. Many of the departures they offered were often two or even three flights leaving to the same city within 5 minutes of each other basically to support the LAS operation out of those outstations. What they've done is rationalized flying and turned it into a hub that actually makes money and posts better margins than PHL. It's a fascinating concept, I know.

[Edited 2013-01-23 13:15:38]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: chrisair
Posted 2013-01-23 23:53:17 and read 5479 times.

I just don't fly USAir because of what they did to PSA. The orange A319 is an insult, especially since it's an east bird. I always liked America West, but I rarely got to fly them.

Anyway, FWIW, according to the bus driver tonight on the crew...err...east economy garage shuttle, SkyTrain opens February 6.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-26 11:15:19 and read 5307 times.

Well the rain sucks today. Departure delays of 25 minutes.

My parking lot is flooded.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 233):
False. CLT is over twice the size of the AA hub at LAX, and larger than DL's hub at SLC. I think PHL is larger than SLC as well.

Why is LAX considered a hub for AA? If anything I see it as a large-size focus city for AA...and UA...and DL.....  
PHX has its own draw, its own demand.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 237):
Anyway, FWIW, according to the bus driver tonight on the crew...err...east economy garage shuttle, SkyTrain opens February 6.

Sounds good. Any ceremonies planned?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-26 16:59:53 and read 5231 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 238):
Well the rain sucks today. Departure delays of 25 minutes.

Speak for yourself. As a native, I love the rain and know that the desert needs the moisture. A 25 minute delay is nothing. I have been on planes that had ground stops due to lightning in the area.

Now if the news did not cover it like it was the second coming, I would be even happier.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-26 17:48:15 and read 5214 times.

Ok now what's going on here...equipment outage?

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPHX

Looks like the BAW plane is going-around. All planes were landing on the 25s and BA289 was lined up for 26 but went around.

[Edited 2013-01-26 18:08:43]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-26 18:13:08 and read 5188 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 240):
Ok now what's going on here...equipment outage?

Listening to liveAT right now and seems normal. I think that they said that there was a problem with the glide slope indicator on 26 or that it was giving intermittent readings. (ILS Problems on 26)

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 240):
Looks like the BAW plane is going-around. All planes were landing on the 25s and BA289 was lined up for 26 but went around.

Yep, it is going upwind right now.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-26 18:17:37 and read 5182 times.

Looks like they flipped it and using 26 for T/O

They are landing everyone on 25L

US 301 is doing a lot of circles also.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE301

Here is another one

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE34



http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1115


[Edited 2013-01-26 18:20:46]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-26 18:26:41 and read 5175 times.

The BAW landed on 25 and it was quite interesting seeing him pass on the south side of my apartment, over the lake, instead of over the freeway. Wish it was daylight so I could've gotten a photo.

I've tried using LiveATC but I'm not too familiar with how it works. What setting would I use to hear just everything from the tower there?

edit- they did say the ILS was down on 26.

edit again- looks like they're shifting everyone back north to 26.


[Edited 2013-01-26 18:28:34]

[Edited 2013-01-26 19:22:40]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-26 18:28:52 and read 5169 times.

http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=kphx

Click on the first one that say listen in browser,

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: wn676
Posted 2013-01-26 18:31:52 and read 5167 times.

They've been using 26 for departures for most of the day. Started when they switched the flow this morning from east to west right in between US's morning banks. It's been a while since I've seen a departure queue like that on Bravo.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-01-26 18:37:21 and read 5170 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 245):
They've been using 26 for departures for most of the day. Started when they switched the flow this morning from east to west right in between US's morning banks. It's been a while since I've seen a departure queue like that on Bravo.

Are they doing anything with 25R? They all seem to be landing on 25L and then they will need to cross 25R to get to the gates. Is this normal? I know when I spot they land on 26/8 and take off on 25R/7L and every once in a while, normally WN and US Express land on 25L/7R

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-31 16:27:18 and read 4866 times.

Anyone figure out why BA isn't operating tuesdays now?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-01 20:47:42 and read 4746 times.

Guys there may be an a/c down, I am listening to LiveATC and they just told an ABX aircraft to listen for a ELT.....anyone have more info ?

The ABX aircraft just took off apparently so I'm not sure what's going on.

[Edited 2013-02-01 20:49:02]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2013-02-02 06:19:49 and read 4688 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 247):
Anyone figure out why BA isn't operating tuesdays now?

I believe it is a seasonal thing and will go back 7 days a week soon.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 248):
Guys there may be an a/c down, I am listening to LiveATC and they just told an ABX aircraft to listen for a ELT.....anyone have more info ?

The ABX aircraft just took off apparently so I'm not sure what's going on.

Could not find anything in the paper.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-02-02 09:25:45 and read 4651 times.

Please continue the discussion in Part 5:

Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 5 (by iowaman Feb 2 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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