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Topic: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 00:28:15 and read 14491 times.

We have lost a number of QF operated international services in the last few years. We are about to loose QF operated one stop flights to London and Frankfurt from Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. We have lost Wunala Dreaming, and it doesn't look good for Yananyi Dreaming either. The famous "I still call Australia home" is pretty much gone, and judging by my latest domestic flights on QF, the hot dinner service in Y has been removed and replaced with a small pie or wrap ( ok PX, it's not all about food!!! ).    It just feels like we are loosing the Spirit of Australia!!!   

Ok, seriously... I know the dust has barely settled on the QF/EK alliance and we are still living in the glory days of QF1/2 to London via Singapore, but what I really want to know, is what's the plan for QF moving forward? Is AJ transitioning her into a Virtual Airlines? Will we see a growing Qantas operated schedule? If so, then when? And will it be too late considering the growth in competition?

I am lucky enough that my job allows me to travel a lot and I get to interact with Qantas on a weekly basis. Over the last 12 months especially however, I feel that QF's fighting spirit has been replaced with an almost 'curl-up-and-die' mantra.

Waddayareckon? Please share your thoughts.

PX

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-02-03 00:34:47 and read 14468 times.

I think they will do whatever they need to do in order to survive in some form. Even if it means being a smaller outfit.

However, let's face it....they couldn't have picked a better bed fellow !!

[Edited 2013-02-03 00:35:30]

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2013-02-03 00:47:03 and read 14391 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Waddayareckon? Please share your thoughts.

Air NZ will make a takeover bid, it's all go tits up like Anset, the NZ Govt will bail out Air NZ and Emirates will take over the Australian market  

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2013-02-03 00:51:47 and read 14362 times.

I feel everyone is underestimating QF.

Lets remember they now have access to EK's network. I cant wait for this to happen and see QF prosper!

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: Chipmunk2307
Posted 2013-02-03 00:59:48 and read 14292 times.

From my perspective, I think that once the new relationship with EK beds down, they'll have more of an ability to start focussing back on SE Asia with emphasis on Singapore and China.

Jetstar Hong Kong seems to be progressing at the moment and the growth of the Jetstar brand into Asia will be an important part of the overall plans. Especially as the Jetstar model seems to be one of profit that is really holding up the Qantas group.

If (and I empasise IF) the 787 is delayed for a long period of time, it will obviously affect moving the A332's out of JQ back into QF. I'm sure that QF management are looking at this and could perhaps consider short to medium term leases on some A330's to facilitate their move back into Asia.

At the moment, it's all about money, and making enough to facilitate growth and reinstituting dividends to share holders. Once the cash flow is in a better state, growth and expansion will follow.

Cheers
CMB

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 01:03:21 and read 14261 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Is AJ transitioning her into a Virtual Airlines? Will we see a growing Qantas operated schedule? If so, then when? And will it be too late considering the growth in competition?

Please share your thoughts.

Personally I believe the airline is going to spin around and come back on top... From well known reliable sources I've been told the airline is on track to turn the International arm to profitability if that is anything to go by at this stage...
Yes, it's been a rough ride along the way, the industrial action didn't help, a terrible aircraft selection when the airline was in the control of GD didn't help out either... Ordering the A380 & B787 was a gamble...
Nevertheless, I ain't going to point the finger and play blame game but personally I am confident the airline will come back on top with the changes being rolled out...

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
and judging by my latest domestic flights on QF, the hot dinner service in Y has been removed and replaced with a small pie or wrap

Which time of day did your flight operate as it could've been a refreshment service or supper...???

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 01:09:18 and read 14207 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
I know the dust has barely settled on the QF/EK alliance and we are still living in the glory days of QF1/2 to London via Singapore, but what I really want to know, is what's the plan for QF moving forward?

Look forward to the glory days of flying through Dubai? The tie-up with Emirates has excellent potential.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Over the last 12 months especially however, I feel that QF's fighting spirit has been replaced with an almost 'curl-up-and-die'

Qantas lost any "fighting spirit" a long time - it had grown fat and lazy, living off its own reputation from it's protected (and somewhat pampered) days as a nationally-owned airline.

I think Alan Joyce is dragging Qantas - despite the kicking and screaming of some - into the 21st century.

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 01:19:23 and read 14152 times.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 1):
However, let's face it....they couldn't have picked a better bed fellow !!

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 3):
I feel everyone is underestimating QF.

Lets remember they now have access to EK's network. I cant wait for this to happen and see QF prosper!

        

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 01:38:55 and read 14009 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
Which time of day did your flight operate as it could've been a refreshment service or supper...???

These flights were all departures between 6pm and 7.30pm, and various routes. BNE - SYD, CNS - BNE, TSV - BNE, BNE - TSV, MEL - BNE. Haven't had a hot meal domestically with Qantas since November 2012... So assumed they stopped.

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
Look forward to the glory days of flying through Dubai? The tie-up with Emirates has excellent potential.

Although it may be glorious, especially transiting through EK's Terminal 3, It would be nice to see QF operating more services.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 01:42:18 and read 13976 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 8):
Although it may be glorious, especially transiting through EK's Terminal 3, It would be nice to see QF operating more services.

I prefer profit before growth.

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2013-02-03 01:44:06 and read 13955 times.



Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 8):
Although it may be glorious, especially transiting through EK's Terminal 3, It would be nice to see QF operating more services.

I would rather see a healthy company first.

[Edited 2013-02-03 02:19:00]

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 01:48:18 and read 13931 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 8):
These flights were all departures between 6pm and 7.30pm, and various routes. BNE - SYD, CNS - BNE, TSV - BNE, BNE - TSV, MEL - BNE. Haven't had a hot meal domestically with Qantas since November 2012... So assumed they stopped.

Interesting, the meal service selection is rotated every 4 months and haven't heard of the Hot meal service being dropped in the Y/C cabin...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 01:55:01 and read 13883 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
I think Alan Joyce is dragging Qantas - despite the kicking and screaming of some - into the 21st century.

I may be one of those people kicking and screaming... I do understand that QF needs to change, but it does sadden me when I see a shrinking QF. Hopefully the EK alliance does present a wonderful return for QF, as it would be wonderful to see some new routes opening up with red tails.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 02:00:58 and read 13846 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
I prefer profit before growth.
Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 10):
I would rather see a healthy company first.

I'd prefer profit and growth... and a proud Aussie brand. But I guess you can't have your cake and eat it...  

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 02:02:58 and read 13836 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):

Yeah not too sure man. Business still has hotties, but not on my recent flights in Y.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: damian
Posted 2013-02-03 02:11:03 and read 13777 times.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 1):
However, let's face it....they couldn't have picked a better bed fellow !!

How about TK? I was wondering if a) QF's A380 would have the range for SYD/MEL-IST, and b) if so, whether such an alliance might have put QF in a stronger position by offering a unique routing (Oz to IST non stop, which TK cannot serve at present) instead of simply duplicating EK. Dunno, just a passing thought.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 02:38:19 and read 13631 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 12):
Hopefully the EK alliance does present a wonderful return for QF, as it would be wonderful to see some new routes opening up with red tails.
Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 13):
I'd prefer profit and growth... and a proud Aussie brand.

I suppose I don't really understand this thinking - does Qantas have to fly all over the world for people to be proud of it?

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 02:44:11 and read 13590 times.

Quoting Chipmunk2307 (Reply 4):
If (and I empasise IF) the 787 is delayed for a long period of time, it will obviously affect moving the A332's out of JQ back into QF. I'm sure that QF management are looking at this and could perhaps consider short to medium term leases on some A330's to facilitate their move back into Asia.

Let's keep our fingers crossed the B787 issues are resolved and a solution is found soon... "If" any further delays occur probably EK will come to the rescue...?

Quoting damian (Reply 15):
How about TK?

I'm pretty sure QF management explored every avenue & EK panned out to be better suited for what QF want to accomplish...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 02:48:54 and read 13570 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
Let's keep our fingers crossed the B787 issues are resolved and a solution is found soon... "If" any further delays occur probably EK will come to the rescue...?

It''s one area where I part company with Mr. Joyce. Hanging on to that 787 fantasy has cost the airline a bundle.

It may - eventually - be a wonderful plane, but it is presently, for Qantas and others, nothing more tha a whole list of opportunities lost.

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 02:54:37 and read 13525 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
It may - eventually - be a wonderful plane, but it is presently, for Qantas and others, nothing more tha a whole list of opportunities lost.

True, it's been a nightmare & I don't wanna open a can of worms concerning the "B77W"... That ship has sailed...

Let's hope the Alliance pays off which I personally believe it will...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 03:10:25 and read 13441 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):

Maybe you don't, but the brand is becoming diluted. I'm still proud of Qantas, and they will never fly everywhere, we know that. What I am trying to get at, is that Qantas is changing and not for the better. As a QF shareholder, I understand the importance of profit and cost reduction, however I don't believe that they are on the right track to return Qantas mainline into a profitable and strong operation.

Just my   ....

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2013-02-03 03:11:50 and read 13440 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):

It''s one area where I part company with Mr. Joyce. Hanging on to that 787 fantasy has cost the airline a bundle.

Evening mariner.

Just wondering what your opinion is, on which direction they should take right now. Cancel all the 789 orders? More A330?

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 03:14:57 and read 13402 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
Quoting mariner (Reply 18):

Maybe the QF/EK alliance will see some older 330's come over to QF to replace the 763's, while we wait for the 789 delivery.... You never know, there might even be a few leased 773ERs heading to Mascot.   

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 03:25:07 and read 13328 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 20):
I understand the importance of profit and cost reduction, however I don't believe that they are on the right track to return Qantas mainline into a profitable and strong operation

I'm not with you, the retirement of the B744 fleet has been accelerated, 9 x B744 have been refurbished with the A380 product, the B767 fleet refreshed, QF will access EKs FF program vice versa... Qantas link has ordered 1 x B717 & 5 x Q400s for expansion...
As previously quoted QF mainline "International" is on track to return to profitability...
The EK alliance will pay off...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: ThomasCook
Posted 2013-02-03 03:33:43 and read 13285 times.

Change is inevitable in todays volatile market. Especially when Qantas is up against a vast number of airlines with significantly lower cost bases who are also able to freely operate in the Australian market without restriction. Airlines without unions and airlines that are heavily subsidised. However Qantas is rapidly transforming itself and moving away from the legacy image of days gone by and transitioning into a modern, competitive carrier. A major overhaul of international business is underway which (in my opinion), puts Qantas' product well within the top 5 in the world...streets ahead of of BA or the likes. The service has now evolved and offers mattresses and duvets, a 'trayless' service, a unique wellbeing sleep tea offering from Australia's T2 and many other improvements and is all about giving customers more of what they want; sleep and flexibility. Qantas Chauffeur is on it's way too.

Many other improvements are abound across the network with many technological innovations undertaken that other carriers would take a 'sit and wait' view too. Some examples being QStreaming and RFID check-in and baggage.

Working with Emirates is the framework of what is to come and will give Qantas room to breath and potentially expand it's international operations. Some are cynical and if you believe all the sheer negativity of Nick Xenophon and Ben Sandilands, you would be forgiven for thinking Qantas was in the drain. However, some very smart tactical moves have been made. DFW being a prime example.

Qantas is transforming, but this doesn't happen overnight.

ThomasCook

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2013-02-03 03:33:49 and read 13763 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 22):
You never know, there might even be a few leased 773ERs heading to Mascot.

IMO this will never happen. There is no point in throwing the 77W into the fleet with the 789 just entering production. Granted they wont have them for a while, but the costs of bringing a 77W into the fleet wont be worth it.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 03:34:36 and read 13698 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):

Time will tell how well this all works out and you will probably be right and I hope you are.

I guess I don't really understand how it will all work and how much Qantas will make from the venture. Do you know if they will be profit sharing? Or will Qantas be earning commission on QF tickets sold on EK metal?

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 04:09:29 and read 13819 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 26):
Do you know if they will be profit sharing?

Frequent Flyer
For travel on/after 31 March 2013, Qantas Frequent Flyer members can earn Qantas Frequent Flyer points and Status Credits on all Qantas (QF) marketed flights that are operated by Emirates (EK) irrespective of when the booking was created. To earn points and Status credits your ticket must have the Qantas (QF) flight number. Visit qantas.com/earningpoints and qantas.com/statuscredits for more information on earning on Qantas.
Further details in relation to the frequent flyer aspects of the partnership including earning and using Qantas Frequent Flyer points, benefits, recognition and lounge access) will be made available soon.

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...and-emirates-partnership/global/en

The details in question far as I know it have not been released and will be made available soon...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2013-02-03 04:40:43 and read 13578 times.

I think QF has to now go down the road it has chosen to go down, if the deal with EK will bring QF International back to profit then "good". I think Alan Joyce wants to make QF a niche airline between Australia and SE Asia, they will leave most of the long haul flying to EK will keep their LHR and LAX flights using their A380s and their DFW flights possiably expand them, but will mainly consentrate on South East Asia and parts of the Pacific. I think the only fight that has been taken out of QF has been with its unions it just might be that the EK deal will bring around QF. The glory days of flying are now gone and its a different world we live in now when it comes to companys and yes airlines are companys its money/profits first, service second, now thats the way it is. In the future I would like QF to be a lot less conservertive get rid of the doom and gloom attitude and get a "lets go for it" attitude and they might have started this with the EK deal. Lets hope this deal works, lets hope the 787 does pay of and lets hope that in the future the red tail will be seen at more airports around the world.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: 1400mph
Posted 2013-02-03 04:44:50 and read 13566 times.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 24):
Change is inevitable in todays volatile market. Especially when Qantas is up against a vast number of airlines with significantly lower cost bases who are also able to freely operate in the Australian market without restriction. Airlines without unions and airlines that are heavily subsidised. However Qantas is rapidly transforming itself and moving away from the legacy image of days gone by and transitioning into a modern, competitive carrier. A major overhaul of international business is underway which (in my opinion), puts Qantas' product well within the top 5 in the world...streets ahead of of BA or the likes. The service has now evolved and offers mattresses and duvets, a 'trayless' service, a unique wellbeing sleep tea offering from Australia's T2 and many other improvements and is all about giving customers more of what they want; sleep and flexibility. Qantas Chauffeur is on it's way too.

Oh if only it was as simple as mattresses and duvets. We could all be an airline CEO.

I don't think BA need take any lessons from QF. They are profitable and revolutionized airborne sleeping and comfort when they introduced the worlds first flat-bed.

(why compare BA anyway ?? they have one daily departure from Australia ??)

[Edited 2013-02-03 04:57:05]

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: piedmont727
Posted 2013-02-03 09:03:35 and read 11318 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):

i don't know what do you expect Qantas to use on the Dallas route? if i remember correctly the a380 cant make it

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: peterinlisbon
Posted 2013-02-03 10:13:24 and read 10411 times.

I'm just wondering what Emirates needs Qantas for? It has it's own flights to Australia already, and can provide it's Australian passengers with connections to all over Europe. What can Qantas do for Emirates that it can't already do itself, domestic connections to a few small cities? And if Qantas hands over a large part of its traffic to Europe to Emirates, won't it lose a huge amount of business?

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-02-03 10:23:47 and read 10336 times.

They are cutting sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many things including routes. No more HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR, AKL-LAX etc etc. And they are even cutting SIN-LHR and SIN-FRA soon. My goodness.

So LHR is the only place in Europe they will be flying to...........

Qantas is strinking like MAD

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 10:26:03 and read 10278 times.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 21):
Evening mariner.

Just wondering what your opinion is, on which direction they should take right now. Cancel all the 789 orders? More A330?

Mornin' ZKOKQ:

As with a number of airlines, Qantas has screwed 'emselves into a corner with the 787,

The original fault was in those original 2008 delivery positions that swung the deal - they invested a deal of the future of the airline in early deliveries of a new (some say revolutionary) aircraft - with no back-up plan. It's like supposedly hard-headed businessmen went doolalley, believed all they were told and didn't think anything could go wrong.

In my business, they'd have trouble finding work again. My business only survives by solving complex problems now, not punting them down the road.

Qantas used the A330 as a stop gap but didn't completely embrace the aircraft and it's capabilities (especially the HGW) because the "game changer" was just around the corner - always just around the corner.

I think they should have woken up a long time ago. I don't think they should cancel the 787 - I think they should work to avoid this happening again. I dunno what the immediate answer is - it's easy to say a few more A330's, but I dunno how they'd get 'em quickly at a decent price. Still - Virgin Australia did.

The moral of the tale is simple and should have been learned from the A380 - don't bet the farm on one new aircraft type.

It's always been thought that Qantas would go for the 787-10 down the road but at the very least, this present 787 problem has to delay the introduction of any 787-10 - so I think they should take a few place-holder positions for the A350XWB.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 20):
What I am trying to get at, is that Qantas is changing and not for the better.

I think it's for the better because it is (generally, see above) reality based, not fantasy based. Profit before growth.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-03 10:36:15]

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-03 10:30:37 and read 10193 times.

The good old 90´s were the golden days of QF, judging by how displeased most Aussies on this site are, things will not improve. Aussies used to be so happy and cheery in the old days, now I get the feeling a new generation has taken over? Or is it just here?

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2013-02-03 10:43:09 and read 10042 times.

I think QF was doing the best between 2002 and 2010.

Wonder if they will bring back the axed routes

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 11:53:09 and read 9291 times.

Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 30):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):

i don't know what do you expect Qantas to use on the Dallas route? if i remember correctly the a380 cant make it

Hmmm, are you sure about that...? Qantas deferred the remaining A380s on order until 2016 & by that time the wing issue would've been resolved plus the A380 with the increased MTOW would be delivered to QF... Regardless of that today's A380 is capable of operating SYD-DFW-SYD with ease...

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 31):
I'm just wondering what Emirates needs Qantas for? It has it's own flights to Australia already, and can provide it's Australian passengers with connections to all over Europe. What can Qantas do for Emirates that it can't already do itself, domestic connections to a few small cities? And if Qantas hands over a large part of its traffic to Europe to Emirates, won't it lose a huge amount of business?

Both carriers are going to benefit from the Alliance...
Qantas will have access to EKs enormous network from Dubai for starters, lounge access, FF program & not to mention how well recognised EK is throughout the world... This move was over due & I believe QF is going to come firing back...
Emirates have exhausted the Australian bilateral rights with a cap of 90 flights a week to Australian cities... Plus EK have exhausted the Germany rights too, with the joint venture EK can expand routes utilising QF e.g. SYD-DXB-BER on QF metal... Lets not forget EK gains access to QFs domestic market feed too...

Quoting United Airline (Reply 32):
They are cutting sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many things including routes. No more HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR, AKL-LAX etc etc. And they are even cutting SIN-LHR and SIN-FRA soon. My goodness.

So LHR is the only place in Europe they will be flying to...........

Qantas is strinking like MAD

Shrinking...???
hmmm, HKG, BKK, MNL, SIN, NRT, CGK, JNB, SCL, DFW, LAX, FRA, LHR & yet you say QF is shrinking...? With 50 B787's on order & a deferred A380 order what makes you think the airline is shrinking...

Quoting United Airline (Reply 35):
I think QF was doing the best between 2002 and 2010.

Wonder if they will bring back the axed routes

Back in 2000 is when the airline began shrinking... Under the control of GD... AJ is trying to repair what GD handed over to him... A damaged airline & come 2016 the airline will pounce....

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 13:43:29 and read 7974 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
Shrinking...???
hmmm, HKG, BKK, MNL, SIN, NRT, CGK, JNB, SCL, DFW, LAX, FRA, LHR & yet you say QF is shrinking...? With 50 B787's on order & a deferred A380 order what makes you think the airline is shrinking...

Apart from increasing services to DFW and adding DXB into the mix, Qantas international has been shrinking. And aren't the next 6 A380's ordered intended to replace the 9 744's?. Again, I don't see growth in this space, but am more then happy to be proved wrong.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
Emirates have exhausted the Australian bilateral rights with a cap of 90 flights a week to Australian cities... Plus EK have exhausted the Germany rights too, with the joint venture EK can expand routes utilising QF e.g. SYD-DXB-BER on QF metal... Lets not forget EK gains access to QFs domestic market feed too...

This would be great to see. Could the EK/QF alliance see the improved performance of QF5/6 but routed via DXB into the future?

On a side note, I have read in various posts that a partnership with China Eastern could see the start up of SYD - PEK for QF... Does anyone have an opinion on this? Also, it would be great to see QF introduce SYD - ICN one day (saying this not based on anything more then personal fantasy   ).

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 17:22:00 and read 6067 times.

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 37):

The first of four phases under the Asian pillar of our Qantas International turnaround plan. The four phases are:

Stronger links to the key hubs of Singaporeand Hong Kong (increased dedicated capacity/seats, better frequency and timings to start from 31 March 2013).

Enhanced customer experience (improvements to cabin, in flight entertainment and lounges).

Expanded network within Asia, building on our existing partners and new future partners.

Investigating an increase in destinations in Asia using the Qantas Group’s B787-9 options from 2016, coinciding with the turnaround of Qantas International (direct destinations under consideration includeBeijing, Seoul, Mumbai, Delhi and Tokyo-Haneda).

Phase oneOur corporate and business customers have been telling us for some time that they want better access to Asia. Under phase one, announcedtoday, Qantas will offer:

An increase of dedicated seats on the Qantas network into/out of Hong Kong (10 per cent more) and Singapore (40 per cent more) and, subject to regulatory approvals, seats on the joint Qantas-Emirates network.

Earlier departures from Australia to Hong Kong, Bangkok and Singapore, which will increase the number of onward Asian connection opportunities.

A new destination – Kuala Lumpur – available to our customers via the combined Qantas-Emirates network.Best for global travellers – on the ground and in the airWe are also examining a refresh of our international A330 fleet to ensure we have a competitive inflight product offering in Asia. On the ground we remain committed to our lounge refurbishments in Singapore andHong Kong – in fact construction of the new Singapore Lounge is already underway and due to open at the end of March.Changes into and out of Perth and Adelaide We will be reducing our Perth-Singapore services to daily and ceasing Perth-Hong Kong and Adelaide-Singapore. These decisions are driven by the fact that most of the customers on these routes are actually connecting to Europe and from 31 March our European traffic will go via Dubai. Despite fewer services, the retime of our daily Perth-Singapore is a real boost to our Perth customers because they can return home before midnight whereas previously both the Perth flights arrived after midnight (around1am and 4am).Earlier withdrawal from FrankfurtQantas will also bring forward our withdrawal from the Singapore-Frankfurt route by six months to 15 April. The Frankfurtroute is loss making and a decision to withdraw was made, irrespective of the Emirates partnership. A large portion of customers travelling to Frankfurt connect to other European destinations and, following the ACCC interim approval of the Emirates partnership, we are now selling (subject to regulatory approvals) a much better one-stop proposition to over 30 European destinations. This means we can stop losing money on this route without losing customers, as they can still travel on the joint Qantas-Emirates network. 

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2013-02-03 18:31:50 and read 5410 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
Emirates have exhausted the Australian bilateral rights with a cap of 90 flights a week to Australian cities...

The bilateral agreement between Australia and the UAE placed a limit on access to four gateway cities - Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. The recent commencement of flights to Adelaide are exempt from that limit, possibly counted against the additional 21 frequencies to getaway points provided that they are operated via regional points, under the "enhanced regional package" agreed to in a 2010 MOU.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
Plus EK have exhausted the Germany rights too, with the joint venture EK can expand routes utilising QF e.g. SYD-DXB-BER on QF metal...

This has previously been mentioned but no-one has provided a link to a revised bilateral agreement that gives Australian designated carriers access anywhere other than FRA. If anyone has such a link I would welcome it being posted.

In the meantime, and remembering that advance approval to the alliance has only been given for five years and not the ten requested, QF's recent statements have not suggested any new routes to Germany. Today's announcement that the end date of FRA has been brought forward is unaccompanied by any hint that either BER or STR are in the pipeline.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 18:43:32 and read 5298 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 39):
In the meantime, and remembering that advance approval to the alliance has only been given for five years and not the ten requested, QF's recent statements have not suggested any new routes to Germany.

I think the chances of Germany are low to non-existent, but I wouldn't fall over in shock if Qantas used its Paris allocation somewhere along the line. Or - might have, if they'd been granted the ten years.

Mostly, it is beyond my understanding that approval for such a major alliance has only been granted for five years.

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2013-02-03 18:50:36 and read 5223 times.

I think in the end, the tie-up with Emirates means QF will no longer need to support the very expensive routes all the way to western Europe from Australia--they can leave that to EK flying though DXB and eventually DWC. That means QF can assign the A380-800 to HKG and NRT and for transpacific flying to LAX and maybe even SFO, which is financially way more lucrative to the airline.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2013-02-03 19:22:00 and read 5001 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 39):
a link to a revised bilateral agreement that gives Australian designated carriers access anywhere other than FRA.

Quite by chance I have stumbled upon an Exchange of Notes, but no clear indication of its status or affect on the treaty, or the earlier amendment that granted the additional points other than FRA.

This EON provided the option of adding an additional access point in lieu of one of the existing points:

Quote:

- for Germany: Darwin, Melbourne, Sydney and Perth; and
- for Australia: Dusseldorf or Cologne, Frankfurt/M, Hamburg and Munich.

Given that QF were not utilising whatever rights to DUS or CGN, HAM and MUC they may have enjoyed, I can only concur with

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
I think the chances of Germany are low to non-existent
Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
Mostly, it is beyond my understanding that approval for such a major alliance has only been granted for five years.

Agreed as it leaves uncertainty that might hamper the development of the alliance.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: gasman
Posted 2013-02-03 20:02:40 and read 4651 times.

Time will tell, of course, in answer to the OP's question.

But I think in 20 years time we will see the worldwide international market dominated by a handful of mega-carriers. We are already, for example, seeing the infiltration of EK into many markets not geographically, culturally or economically associated with Dubai and also the undeniable truth that traditional legacy carriers like QF, NZ, UA cannot really compete with them on either product or price.

Therefore I see the 'alliance' of QF and EK as an embryonic development of this theme, and it is very naive to believe it is a positive thing in terms of QF remaining a strong, autonomic national carrier - at least as far as international travel is concerned.

[Edited 2013-02-03 20:03:51]

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-03 20:16:41 and read 4513 times.

Quoting gasman (Reply 43):
Therefore I see the 'alliance' of QF and EK as an embryonic development of this theme, and it is very naive to believe it is a positive thing in terms of QF remaining a strong, autonomic national carrier - at least as far as international travel is concerned.

I don't know that I regard a strong autonomic national carrier as particularly desirable.

Air France/KLM started a trend, maybe, and then British/Iberia - not forgetting Lufthansa and all the Luft-lings.

In most instances, the names are kept from brand purposes - and national pride, I guess - but that may change eventually, too. I wonder who will end up owning Virgin Australia and I hope Air NZ is doing its homework on this.

It can't change for Qantas, of course, until and unless the Qantas Sales Act is modified. Which is good or bad, depending on your point of view.

mariner

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-02-03 20:31:10 and read 4381 times.

I think there is a major problem with the Premium Economy sector.

We already know that both Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand have described it as the most profitable long-haul cabin. But now only passengers between Sydney/Melbourne and London can buy it all the way to London.

Passengers from Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide are particularly affected by this, and if you look at the Virgin Australia pages on FlyerTalk you can see that passengers shunted onto Etihad have similar problems.

I think that Qantas should have obtained concessions on this prior to implementing sales. At the very least, there should have been the following agreements from Emirates if they were unwilling to install a Premium Economy cabin:

1. Qantas PE passengers to receive Business Class catering and drinks, on Economy trays.
2. Qantas PE passengers to be seated in the first 3 rows of Economy class.
3. Qantas PE passengers to be seated at the airport in any unsold Business Class inventory.

Premium economy passengers tend to be self-funded but affluent people, willing to buy much higher-yielding tickets for the extra comfort.

I live near BNE, and if I was going to fly to Europe on my own dollar and was a OneWorld frequent flyer I would now automatically have Cathay Pacific Premium Economy as my default product.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-02-03 21:50:56 and read 3730 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 45):
Premium economy passengers tend to be self-funded but affluent people, willing to buy much higher-yielding tickets for the extra comfort.

From a business standpoint, it's not an issue for QF/EK because there is no other carrier with a heavy infiltration of W into Europe who also offers one stop flights across Europe. CX is working on it, but their prices are high for the standard of their product (ie no legrests, 38" pitch, Y+ style service etc).

The competition in W can only offer 2 stop options, and require the short hop at the end to be made in a narrowbody in Y.

By the time the rest of the market is offering W, EK might well have introduced their own product and be rapidly rolling it out across their fleet.

I do share your sentiments though, especially given that QF will happily charge virtually the same fare to MAN (with the EK leg in Y) as to LHR (W all the way). There are warnings as you book, but it would be good to see them selling these tickets like mixed fares to make it more transparent. I really doubt that they would be willing to take the steps you suggest, but it would be good to see W passengers given first priority for extra legroom seating, and perhaps given a lounge pass at DXB during longer layovers (say 2 hours or more).

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-03 22:34:28 and read 3364 times.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-rejig...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

In news just in, it looks like QF are beefing up some services, and cutting FRA sooner then we thought.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-03 23:10:35 and read 3072 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 39):
This has previously been mentioned but no-one has provided a link to a revised bilateral agreement that gives Australian designated carriers access anywhere other than FRA. If anyone has such a link I would welcome it being posted.

I remember the discussion unfortunately I haven't got a link...

EK413

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2013-02-04 00:46:30 and read 2351 times.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 41):
QF can assign the A380-800 to HKG and NRT and for transpacific flying to LAX and maybe even SFO, which is financially way more lucrative to the airline.

I dont think you will see SFO back in the QF network which is a shame they have served that beautiful city twice and both times they have dropped it. Even if when they get the 787 I doubt you see a red tail kangaroo there again.

Topic: RE: What's Going To Happen To Qantas?
Username: AirNiugini
Posted 2013-02-04 00:56:31 and read 2315 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 49):

SFO would be an amazing 787 destination... You never know man, we might see red-tail 787 in SFO oneday... Or maybe a Orange tail... LOL

  


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