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Topic: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-02-04 04:23:02 and read 8832 times.

Airbus reports:Significant lessor order for Airbus’ newest, most fuel efficient aircraft

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...west-most-fuel-efficient-aircraft/

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: redrooster3
Posted 2013-02-04 06:04:06 and read 8378 times.

The order is for 20 A350-900s, 5 A350-1000, and 25 A320neos. Has options for 5 more A350-1000's. This is Steven Udvar-Hazy company who has bashed the A350 as not being a good competitor. He quotes: "The A350 is becoming the industry benchmark for efficiency in the long haul segment." We have another new A350-1000 customer.

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-02-04 07:12:45 and read 8030 times.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
The order is for 20 A350-900s, 5 A350-1000, and 25 A320neos. Has options for 5 more A350-1000's

Ah .. thanks for clearing that up.
Moderators ... pls fell free to change the name of the thread!

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-02-04 07:17:41 and read 8005 times.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
This is Steven Udvar-Hazy company who has bashed the A350 as not being a good competitor. He quotes: "The A350 is becoming the industry benchmark for efficiency in the long haul segment." We have another new A350-1000 customer.

Well, a lot of his comments are politically or business motivated. He is not the only one making comments like these to suit a political or business agenda.  .

On topic; this is great news for Airbus. And especially for the A350 program where the -900 and the -1000 variant keep gaining momentum.  

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-02-04 07:18:45 and read 7990 times.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
This is Steven Udvar-Hazy company who has bashed the A350 as not being a good competitor.

He "bashed" the original A350. He's been a proponent of the A350XWB.

[Edited 2013-02-04 08:16:55]

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-02-04 07:41:11 and read 7832 times.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
This is Steven Udvar-Hazy company who has bashed the A350 as not being a good competitor. He quotes: "The A350 is becoming the industry benchmark for efficiency in the long haul segment." We have another new A350-1000 customer.

His harsh words about the pre-XWB A350's helped to force Airbus to radically revise their plans -- and since he got what he was asking for in the XWB, now he's stepping up to back it with orders. This reflects badly upon him how? The XWB is a far more potent competitor than the original A350 would have been! So why is it that the Airbus aficionados get so bent out of shape about SUH criticizing the original A350? He did them an enormous favor by pushing/shaming them into going back to the drawing board and coming up with something better than a half-hearted "Chinese copy" of the 787. He did himself a huge favor, too, of course -- since he gets a superior product to offer to his airline customers as a lessor.

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: zotan
Posted 2013-02-04 11:21:27 and read 7145 times.

SUH criticized the original A350, not the XWB. SUH criticizing the original A350 led to the redesign which resulted in the XWB. Airbus has thanked him for that.

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-04 11:42:46 and read 7020 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
He "bashed" the original A350. He's been a proponent of the A350XWB.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 5):
His harsh words about the pre-XWB A350's helped to force Airbus to radically revise their plans -- and since he got what he was asking for in the XWB, now he's stepping up to back it with orders.
Quoting zotan (Reply 6):
SUH criticized the original A350, not the XWB. SUH criticizing the original A350 led to the redesign which resulted in the XWB. Airbus has thanked him for that.

Um - not quite.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ilf...nks-airbus-a350xwb-needs-more-work

"ILFC head thinks Airbus A350XWB needs more work

[i]"PARIS (MarketWatch) -- After confirming that International Lease Finance Corp. plans to buy 63 Boeing Co. BA +0.53% aircraft, including 50 new 787s, Steven Udvar-Hazy, head of the world's biggest aircraft-leasing company, told reporters at the Paris Air Show Tuesday that he planned to talk to Airbus about making its new A350XWB more like the 787.

Udvar-Hazy and others said the A350 wouldn't have the same fuel savings as the 787, which has a body and wings made mostly of light-weight carbon-fiber composites, rather than aluminum.

While the complete redesign of the A350 still hasn't been made public, the ILFC chief said Tuesday that he favors the Boeing design over that of Airbus, which puts composite panels over an aluminum frame."


As I recall, SUH had to send his 2IC to Paris to calm what were still quite troubled waters.

mariner

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-04 11:46:19 and read 6989 times.

That was in 2007, the XWB design wasn't been made public at that time.

[Edited 2013-02-04 11:53:01]

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-02-04 11:47:37 and read 6989 times.

Quoting zotan (Reply 6):
SUH criticized the original A350, not the XWB. SUH criticizing the original A350 led to the redesign which resulted in the XWB. Airbus has thanked him for that.

Not quite correct. Although he's a firm believer in the -900, the man has taken aim at the -1000 until pretty recently . . . :



Quote:
Air Lease Corporation chief executive Steven Udvar-Hazy has echoed concerns expressed by Gulf carriers Emirates and Qatar Airways over the performance of the revamped Airbus A350-1000, speaking to Air Transport Intelligence at the ISTAT Europe finance conference in Barcelona
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...dvar-hazy-talks-to-flightblog.html


Quote:
It doesn't have enough thrust. So we're going to buy a big cement company so extend runways everywhere in the world. Concrete, it's going to be the way to go.

Our feeling is that the -900 XWB will be the main star of the A350 family, and maybe there will be two versions of the -1000, the initial version, like on the A340-600 the initial version that had some performance limitations and after a few years they'll figure out ways to get more thrust, weight, max takeoff weight and more fuel capacity, So there could be a 1000 'Super', but we're looking at 2020 or 2021
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...erns-over-a350-1000-revamp-362364/


Quote:
Udvar-Hazy, however, doubts today's specifications for the 73.9m (242ft 5in)-long jet will enable the aircraft to meet its mission, requiring a significant boost to its performance
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...eet-performance-udvar-hazy-354460/


PW100

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-04 11:52:07 and read 6920 times.

Same story, that was before the redesign of the -1000.

Quote:
"It doesn't have enough thrust," he says on the sidelines of the International Society of Transport Aircraft Trading (ISTAT) conference in Scottsdale, Arizona.

The 350-seat A350-1000, which is due for entry into service in 2015, is slated to have the same Trent XWB baseline engine as the smaller A350-900, but uprated to 93,000lbs (414kN) of thrust to fly 14,800km (8,000nm).

Now it has more thrust.

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-02-04 11:53:52 and read 6919 times.

You are sweet. A leasing company is sure it can place 5 aircraft which are expected to be the most effcient in their class. Who doubts he can place them?

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-04 11:54:49 and read 6896 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
That was in 2007, the XWB design wasn't been made public then.

Fairly obviously SUH knew enough about it to say that there was stuff he didn't like and that it needed "more work" - that he didn't like the panel concept.

He was still pushing for changes quite late in the process:

ILFC:customers Still Pushing For A350XWB Redesign (by Flying-Tiger Jul 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-04 11:59:49]

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-02-04 12:14:17 and read 6759 times.

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
The order is for 20 A350-900s, 5 A350-1000, and 25 A320neos.

The Airbus press release clearly states:

Quote:
Concurrently, ALC has signed a purchase order for 14 A321neo aircraft following an earlier agreement announced at the 2012 Farnborough International Air Show for 36 A320neo Family aircraft plus 14 options

So 25 A350s and 14 A321neos.

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-02-04 13:50:30 and read 6453 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
Same story, that was before the redesign of the -1000.

All those quotes were from 2011, two from March, one from September.
The -1000 delay/redesigns was announced early June 2011 at Paris.

One would suspect that a delay/redesign like this would have been communicated with an important potential customer, although it is debateable to what extent SUH was aware late March 2011. But then again, from his words it appeared (in hindsight) that Airbus was already throwing around numbers on different -1000 options payload/range wise vs installed power, early 2011.

Rgds,
PW100

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: Jetstar315
Posted 2013-02-04 18:18:20 and read 4501 times.

and now the interesting part......who will actually take delivery of these A350s???

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: Dash9
Posted 2013-02-04 19:00:09 and read 4270 times.

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 15):
who will actually take delivery of these A350s???

Air France?   They haven't firmed theirs yet, its been a while...

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-05 02:37:38 and read 2846 times.

I don't think so, Air France is expected to firm their A350 order for 25 aircraft by the end of March.

Quote:
All those quotes were from 2011, two from March, one from September.
The -1000 delay/redesigns was announced early June 2011 at Paris.

But if he knew about the redesign he would not have said things like 'it (the -1000) has the same thrust as the -900' ?

[Edited 2013-02-05 02:39:48]

Topic: RE: ALC Orders 25 A350' And 14 NEO's
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-02-05 06:56:59 and read 2034 times.

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 16):
Air France?   They haven't firmed theirs yet, its been a while...

AF-KLM Group have indicated they will finalise their direct order at Airbus in Q1 of 2013. So they will not be the ones taking these A350's.


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