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Topic: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-04 07:13:07 and read 10834 times.

It seems the talk of AS spurning AA for DL was premature. New code-share Bay Area-Hawaii for AA on AS metal, LAX-East Coast for AS on AA metal and much more. Major deal for both parties.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...ska-airlines-expand-150000083.html

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: runway23
Posted 2013-02-04 07:25:13 and read 10724 times.

The most interesting codeshare is on DCA-LAX where both airlines currently compete, they will continue to do so, but with a codeshare on each other's flight.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-04 07:39:24 and read 10585 times.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 1):
The most interesting codeshare is on DCA-LAX where both airlines currently compete, they will continue to do so, but with a codeshare on each other's flight.

This is a huge boost for the traveler on this route. You couldn't ask for a more perfect combination of flights.

AA: LAX DCA 0805-1550
AS: LAX DCA 1300-2100

AS: DCA LAX 0900-1155
AA: DCA LAX 1650-1940

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: DL747400
Posted 2013-02-04 07:40:31 and read 10566 times.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 1):
The most interesting codeshare is on DCA-LAX where both airlines currently compete, they will continue to do so, but with a codeshare on each other's flight.

This has been a DL/AS codeshare route for the past few years. Now that the DL-US slot swap has been completed and DL has shifted capacity and strategic focus from DCA to LGA, perhaps a DCA-LAX codeshare with AS made less sense?

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: md3
Posted 2013-02-04 07:58:21 and read 10364 times.

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 3):
perhaps a DCA-LAX codeshare with AS made less sense?

I don't think there will be any change to the DL codeshare on this route. Not that the performance has or hasn't changed in DL's view, who knows.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: blrsea
Posted 2013-02-04 08:09:16 and read 10251 times.

Where is the list of all the flights for the code shares? The yahoo link doesn't list the flights, but just mentions the cities.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2013-02-04 08:40:33 and read 9945 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
It seems the talk of AS spurning AA for DL was premature.

The only people saying this had no idea what they were talking about in regards to AS and DL. A lot of us saw this coming miles away, granted AA not going under or something

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: martinrpo1
Posted 2013-02-04 08:51:03 and read 9852 times.

AA and DL are fighting over AS, or should I say it the other way around?

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-04 08:55:11 and read 9821 times.

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 7):

AA and DL are fighting over AS, or should I say it the other way around?

AS is clearly having their cake and eating it too...with Dl slowly building up LAX I would say that DL is beginning to hedge their bets.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: realsim
Posted 2013-02-04 09:05:54 and read 9727 times.

AA clearly stated, when they were negotiating the new contract with the pilots, that they wanted to be allowed to expand the domestic codeshare agreement with AS, and start a similar one with B6 for the east coast.

The new terms of the contract are starting to be developed:

- Large RJs with Republic.
- 3rd party ERJs at LAX and DFW.
- Expanded codeshare with AS.

And the following should follow:

- Finalizing 787 order.
- More large RJs.
- 3rd party turboprop operator at SJU (and maybe MIA).
- B6 codeshare agreement.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-04 09:45:41 and read 9473 times.

The bigger question in my mind is how this all could relate to a discussed AA-US merger. I assume that AA is going along assuming that they will come out of bankruptcy as an 'independant' airline with no US merger. But if there was, they're now contractually obligated (I assume) to code-share with a US competitor. This does not bode well in my mind for PHX if such a merger was to occur.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-04 09:53:18 and read 9409 times.

DL has recently added a number of AS markets in the West. I wonder if that was related to this. Spurned lover. It would appear that AS will work mostly with DL in SEA and mostly with AA in LAX.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-04 11:02:20 and read 8640 times.

Quoting realsim (Reply 9):
- B6 codeshare agreement.

B6 codeshare looks to be coming soon:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-expand-their-marketing-deal.html/

American is expected in the near future to announce a code-sharing deal with JetBlue Airways. Currently the two have an interline agreement in which they connect passengers, but they don’t put ther own code and flight number on the other’s flights.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-04 11:11:57 and read 8504 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
DL has recently added a number of AS markets in the West. I wonder if that was related to this. Spurned lover. It would appear that AS will work mostly with DL in SEA and mostly with AA in LAX.

I think that DL adding SEA-LAX was due to AS having such high load factors...DL couldn't get the seats they wanted. AS is realizing they need more capacity on some routes and is increasing flights in markets such as LAX-SEA.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-04 11:12:18 and read 8467 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 2):
This is a huge boost for the traveler on this route.

Really, the only boost I see is having the flights listed on aa.com or alaskaair.com. Otherwise, the benefits to the traveler have been about equal choosing either flight. AS and AA have had reciprocal agreements for FF earning and benefits for a long time now, including EQMs regardless of whether a flight is flown under the native flight number or a codeshare.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-04 11:57:55 and read 7869 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
Really, the only boost I see is having the flights listed on aa.com or alaskaair.com. Otherwise, the benefits to the traveler have been about equal choosing either flight. AS and AA have had reciprocal agreements for FF earning and benefits for a long time now, including EQMs regardless of whether a flight is flown under the native flight number or a codeshare.

The benefit is that you will now be able to book either flight on either airline's website. I suppose the days of a ticket being cheaper if booked r/t are gone but it's the convenience factor if nothing else.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-04 12:07:49 and read 7732 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
The benefit is that you will now be able to book either flight on either airline's website.

Well yes, that's exactly what I said in my post.

The only benefit in having the codeshare in place is reciprocal bookings on the airline's native websites. So instead of this being "a huge boost to the traveler on this route," it's "somewhat of a boost to those who book exclusively on airline-operated websites". The ability to book these flights, and reap the reciprocal benefits, have always been there, booking via other means.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-02-04 12:37:06 and read 7303 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
Really, the only boost I see is having the flights listed on aa.com or alaskaair.com. Otherwise, the benefits to the traveler have been about equal choosing either flight.

A significant difference I've noted, on AS codeshares on DL planes at least, is a particular flight pulled up on alaskaair.com is usually more expensive than the same flight on delta.com. The reverse doesn't always seem to be true.

In general, AS and DL have had codeshares on several routes on which they also compete directly, for several years.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-04 12:48:00 and read 7132 times.

Another smart move by AS to ensure their profitability and independence.

Will AA and AS now code-share on each other's SEA-DFW flights? That has always been a surprising omission, apparently because AA was mad when AS started SEA-DFW.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: cschleic
Posted 2013-02-04 13:35:25 and read 6627 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):
Will AA and AS now code-share on each other's SEA-DFW flights? That has always been a surprising omission, apparently because AA was mad when AS started SEA-DFW.

I think they used to, many moons ago. It involved an ANC - SEA - DFW flight, with oil business traffic in mind. Way back before anyone had heard the term codeshare.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-02-04 14:31:51 and read 6024 times.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 19):
It involved an ANC - SEA - DFW flight, with oil business traffic in mind. Way back before anyone had heard the term codeshare.


That flight was an interchange: AS crews flew the ANC-SEA leg, and AA crews flew the SEA-DFW leg. Both AA and AS 722s were used.

Such interchanges were common up until the 1980s. Other examples included the DL/PA interchange using DL planes (DC-8s and later 747s and L-1011s) ATL-JFK-LHR with DL crews flying ATL-JFK and PA crews flying JFK-LHR before DL got nonstop ATL-LGW rights in 1979.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-02-04 14:41:15 and read 5919 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 20):


Such interchanges were common up until the 1980s. Other examples included the DL/PA interchange using DL planes (DC-8s and later 747s and L-1011s) ATL-JFK-LHR with DL crews flying ATL-JFK and PA crews flying JFK-LHR before DL got nonstop ATL-LGW rights in 1979.

Those PA/DL interchanges ATL-FRA/LHR were routed through IAD.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-02-04 15:42:09 and read 5399 times.

So I guess all that talk of AS dumping AA and/or choosing DL was just that - talk. Never thought it was realistic, and this just further confirms that AS plans to continue its tried-and-true strategy up to now - fully utilize and leverage the benefits of both partnerships to the benefit of AS, and ultimately AA and DL, too.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
The bigger question in my mind is how this all could relate to a discussed AA-US merger. I assume that AA is going along assuming that they will come out of bankruptcy as an 'independant' airline with no US merger.

I, personally, don't see a potential merger having much impact on the longstanding AA-AS relationship.

For starters, the AS/QX relationship actually costs AA very little. Sure, they do extend some preferential benefits to AS elite FFs, and have some lounge agreements, etc., but my guess is that the AS partnership (which in some form or another dates back, on and off, for literally decades) is mostly gravy for AA's bottom line. (And I imagine it's much the same - win-win - from AS' perspective, too.)

Secondly, AS/QX gives AA substantial heft in a region of the country - the Pacific Northwest - where AA, due to the structural realities of its network and the competitive dynamics of today's environment, is never going to be a huge player, with or without a merger. Even if combined, a "new AA" - without even considering the inevitable network optimization and capacity rationalization - would be relatively small at SEA and PDX, far smaller than United and Delta in both markets. As such, the AS presence in those places, along with its cadre of loyal FFs, can only help AA - with or without a merger.

And finally, the benefit AS/QX bring to the AA network - in the form of feed - is something that will still be valuable with or without a merger. AS provides codeshare feed into major Pacific Northwest markets, up and down the west coast, and into AA's large hubs in DFW, ORD and especially LAX, that US could never provide, anyway. So unless the plan for the "new AA" is to simply dismantle AA's sizeable presence in LAX, and SFO (and I highly doubt any prospective new AA CEO would be that stupid), the AS/QX codeshare would still be value-add with or without a merger.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):
Will AA and AS now code-share on each other's SEA-DFW flights?
Quoting cschleic (Reply 19):
I think they used to, many moons ago. It involved an ANC - SEA - DFW flight, with oil business traffic in mind. Way back before anyone had heard the term codeshare.

I think it was far more recent than the "many moons ago" that the AA/AS DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI interchange operated.

If memory serves me correctly, AS was codesharing on AA's DFW-SEA flights up until just a few years ago, when AS began flying to DFW itself. At that point, if I'm not mistaken, the codeshare stopped. The two are still formally competitors, of course.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: TWA1985
Posted 2013-02-04 17:05:51 and read 4834 times.

If I recall, AA and AS also had an interchange agreement with flights to ORD and DCA back in the 70s & 80s.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-04 18:51:31 and read 4096 times.

Coming soon expect a similar deal with B6 at BOS/JFK and my guess is that B6 will also take a number of AA LGA slots. I think this has been in the works for a long time.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-02-04 19:35:18 and read 3945 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
Coming soon expect a similar deal with B6 at BOS/JFK and my guess is that B6 will also take a number of AA LGA slots. I think this has been in the works for a long time.

I'm pretty sure the B6 pilot contract does not allow for a 2 way codeshare on this scope. One way yes. But not two way

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: Aerowrench
Posted 2013-02-04 20:16:15 and read 3675 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 2):

This is a huge boost for the traveler on this route. You couldn't ask for a more perfect combination of flights.

AA: LAX DCA 0805-1550
AS: LAX DCA 1300-2100

AS: DCA LAX 0900-1155
AA: DCA LAX 1650-1940

Absolutely! With slot control, this marriage makes perfect sense.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: questions
Posted 2013-02-04 21:21:00 and read 3346 times.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 26):
Absolutely! With slot control, this marriage makes perfect sense.

Slot control? AS obviously can't control her slot!

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: BDL757
Posted 2013-02-05 08:40:20 and read 1825 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 25):

What are the AA pilot's contract limitations on codesharing? I'm sure they won't be pleased with all the new codeshares.

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-02-05 08:59:56 and read 1758 times.

B6 pilots have limits on 2 way codeshares

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-05 10:21:24 and read 1609 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 28):
What are the AA pilot's contract limitations on codesharing? I'm sure they won't be pleased with all the new codeshares

As far as I know the recently signed agreement with APA allows for domestic codesharing up to 50% of mainline narrowbody ASMs, and does not include existing Alaska codeshare or Hawaiian island flying.

The MOU with APA/USAPA/AMR/US drops that domestic codesharing to 15%, but that hasnt been signed by all parties nor has a merger been officially announced.

Maybe jfklganyc can add to this, but I checked the B6 limits on placing their code on other airlines flights and there isn't much of a limit on domestic codesharing of new routes that jetblue hasn't flown for the past 2 years. There isnt really a limit on B6 codesharing on US carriers for international routes though, or for any flying that would be pursuant to alliance membership.

[Edited 2013-02-05 10:43:57]

Topic: RE: AA-AS: Major Codeshare Announcement
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-05 10:27:24 and read 1590 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 25):
Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
Coming soon expect a similar deal with B6 at BOS/JFK and my guess is that B6 will also take a number of AA LGA slots. I think this has been in the works for a long time.
I'm pretty sure the B6 pilot contract does not allow for a 2 way codeshare on this scope. One way yes. But not two way
Quoting BDL757 (Reply 28):
What are the AA pilot's contract limitations on codesharing? I'm sure they won't be pleased with all the new codeshares.

As long as it is one-way it has nearly the same effect, plus if more LGA slots are obtained in the deal they'd be dumb not to allow it.


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