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Topic: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: AirCanada787
Posted 2013-02-02 14:39:55 and read 14466 times.

Seems there people didn't get the memo about not smoking on flights anymore and the fact that you have to listen to the instructions of the crew.

Last night Sunwing flight 454 from Halifax to Dominican Republic diverted to Bermuda after three passengers onboard refused to stop smoking. Upon landing the three who appeared to be a mother and father with a son were arrested by police. Their passports have been seized by the police and they have been order to not leave the island. The other passengers and crew were put up in a hotel over night and were expected to continue to their destination today.

Story from CBC.ca
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...wing-divert-bermuda-dominican.html

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-02-02 14:44:05 and read 14442 times.

Looks like the flight is about to land at PUJ. Even if there weren't rules and guidelines, provided that somebody actually did ask them to, wouldn't you think a decent person would decide not to smoke if somebody says it would bother them?

This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people!   And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-02-02 14:59:36 and read 14285 times.

I would be pretty pissed if it was my vacation that got screwed because of these three imbeciles.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Md88Captain
Posted 2013-02-02 15:09:34 and read 14182 times.

The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-02 15:16:24 and read 14123 times.

Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 3):
The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.

Assuming they return to YHZ, the lowest current one way fare BDA-YHZ is around $260 including taxes/fees.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: rampbro
Posted 2013-02-02 15:27:32 and read 14050 times.

I laughed so hard when I read this. It sounds like an episode of Trailer Park Boys, a show which is funny for many because of how closely it mimics people they know. I can well imagine how blue the air was in that aircraft at the height of the argument.

Of course, it is a major hassle for any of the 150+ other people directly affected. They should take some consolation in the great travel story they now have in their back pocket!

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: AY104
Posted 2013-02-02 15:30:51 and read 14006 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people! And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).

Don't feel bad about your comments. We have proportionally just as many angry and thoughtless people up here, as anywhere else in the world. Geographically, a large country, but only about 35 million population.

Times are indeed changing. I was born in 1949, and spent all but 6 years of my life here. The rest of the world's perception that things can and don't happen up here is purely a myth. The fact that Canadians are all friendly, nice people is indeed no more than a notion.

Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.

Cheers,
AY104

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: XEspecialist
Posted 2013-02-02 15:31:10 and read 14004 times.

The family may not even be Canadian. Many package holiday travelers get themselves to YHZ or YYZ first on their own as it is cheaper to get a package departing from there. The airports have walk up tour agencies in the ticketing lobbies. Canada is almost more of a melting pot than the United States.

Also, it appears the crew diverted because:

A) they were smoking in a lavatory
B) they wouldn't or couldn't tell the crew what they had done with their smoking materials

This is probably why they had to get a maintenance inspection as mentioned in the article. Many nooks and crannies in a 73G lavatory. Wouldn't want to end like AC in CVG.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: macc
Posted 2013-02-02 17:06:50 and read 13557 times.

When I flew out of DFW on thursday I was outside smoking and was talked to from 3 different people who all told me that they were on their first flights. One from Florida, one from Michigan and the third one from Oregon. I guess that family wasnt on a plane much before either. We all are used so much to the whole thing that we peobably just cant imagine how it must be for someone on his first trip. The 3 people made me remember some 20 years ago. But back then, there was still smoking on board...

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: autothrust
Posted 2013-02-03 02:56:39 and read 12598 times.

It amazes me how stupid and egoistic some people can be.

They don't deserve to be in any plane anymore and should be lifetime banned.

The level of education from plane passangers , has declined fast in the last 20 years.

Quoting AY104 (Reply 6):
Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days.

Indeed.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2013-02-03 03:53:28 and read 12039 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people! And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).

Just goes to show that we Canucks can be as big AHs as any other labelled group. Don't feel bad about it !  

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-02-03 04:48:11 and read 11393 times.

Quoting AirCanada787 (Thread starter):
Seems there people didn't get the memo about not smoking on flights anymore and the fact that you have to listen to the instructions of the crew.
Quoting autothrust (Reply 10):
It amazes me how stupid and egoistic some people can be.

It's actually pretty common, lamentably. Quite regularly police are called to flights arriving at STN because of smokers on board.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: yowviewer
Posted 2013-02-03 05:04:54 and read 11193 times.

Can someone please tell me that these 3 AH's will not be fingerprinted, photographed, and then released to a five-star resort waiting for their next court appearance in 5 days ? Keep them locked up, and throw away the keys ! I used to be one of those tranquil Canadians until the last ten years or so, but now it's "Cool" to break the law and not much of a penalty to go with it.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: awacsooner
Posted 2013-02-03 06:22:23 and read 10321 times.

I'm all for blacklisting them from flying for a certain amount of time should they do stuff like this!

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-02-03 06:26:42 and read 10235 times.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 14):
I'm all for blacklisting them from flying for a certain amount of time should they do stuff like this!

A very sensible proposal.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: JAGflyer
Posted 2013-02-03 06:55:16 and read 9848 times.

Air travel attracts many types of people, unfortunately some are either too naive to know better or they just intentionally do something they know is wrong and hope they don't get caught. It would not surprise me if these people have never flown on an airliner at all or in the last 20 years. People from all walks of life fly, the rich, the poor, and the very inexperienced. Hearing the stories from pilots who have done Hajj charters nothing seems impossible. I've heard of passengers trying to cook at their seats, using galley elevators as squat toilets, and even trying to bring live animals onto the plane.

[Edited 2013-02-03 06:56:29]

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: braynfeeble
Posted 2013-02-03 07:12:06 and read 9564 times.

I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2013-02-03 10:00:12 and read 7454 times.

Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 17):
I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.

I doubt it. Since the offense occurred in international airspace on a Canadian-registered a/c, they'll likely be processed through the Canadian legal system, which takes a dim view of this type of behaviour. Likely a hefty fine, probably mandatory couselling, although jail time is not out of the question - they did cause a fire hazard on the flight, after all. After that, Sunwing will almost certainly pursue in civil court for landing charges, fuel, and any other related expense.

This will turn out to be one expensive smoke. Possibly a good incentive to give it up.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Revo1059
Posted 2013-02-03 13:41:49 and read 5182 times.

They should never be allowed to fly again....and no I don't think thats too harsh. Flying is a privlidge, not a right and if someone is too stupid to play by the rules then find another way to travel. This wasn't some questionable (as some here have) rule about splitting hairs on what should be turned on or off for landing or some FA judgement call that could be argued, this is a basic rule that has been in place for a long time....NO SMOKING.....damn.....

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: gabrielchew
Posted 2013-02-03 14:14:51 and read 4815 times.

If they were on their first flights (and were unaware of the smoking ban), why light up in the lav rather than in the comfort of their seats? Sounds like they knew what they were doing and throught they could get away with it.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-03 14:21:03 and read 4734 times.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):
Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 17):
I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.

I doubt it. Since the offense occurred in international airspace on a Canadian-registered a/c, they'll likely be processed through the Canadian legal system, which takes a dim view of this type of behaviour.

Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).

Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circircumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: fiscal
Posted 2013-02-03 14:56:41 and read 4419 times.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
It's actually pretty common, lamentably. Quite regularly police are called to flights arriving at STN because of smokers on board.

I have found that Eastern Europeans particularly seem to have smoking so intrenched in their everyday lives that they think it is normal behaviour to light up anywhere without reference to their surroundings. Actually, a lot of other Europeans do it as well.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2013-02-03 15:00:15 and read 4397 times.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 21):

I have found that Eastern Europeans particularly seem to have smoking so intrenched in their everyday lives that they think it is normal behaviour to light up anywhere without reference to their surroundings. Actually, a lot of other Europeans do it as well.

Happens a lot on Polish and Italian flights in particular, though that predominance is to a certain extent also explained by the number of routes from those countries flown.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: connies4ever
Posted 2013-02-04 05:56:00 and read 3913 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).

Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circircumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.

I think what will happen is that charges will be filed against them in Canada, to await their return.

At least I hope so.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: SeeTheWorld
Posted 2013-02-04 06:04:51 and read 3883 times.

Interestingly, Bermuda doesn't take kindly to people not following rules ... It may be a beautiful island, but they have little patience for tourists who step out of line ...

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: ghYHZ
Posted 2013-02-04 14:10:12 and read 3717 times.

Here's an update.......their appearence in a Bermuda Court today:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...-family-bermuda-sunwing-court.html

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-02-04 15:17:28 and read 3527 times.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 19):
why light up in the lav rather than in the comfort of their seats? Sounds like they knew what they were doing and throught they could get away with it.

The article referenced in post #25 says they were smoking at their seats.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: timpdx
Posted 2013-02-04 15:22:57 and read 3598 times.

one expensive smoke is right:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...-family-bermuda-sunwing-court.html

"McWilliams estimates that the cost of diverting the flight could be as much as $50,000. He said those costs include:
Landing fees at Bermuda airport.
Flying a mechanic to Bermuda to examine the aircraft for defects (standard operating procedure for overweight planes.)
Cost to hire crew to search plane for cigarette butts to make sure they were extinguished.
Accommodations for passengers and crew overnight in Bermuda.
Accommodations for passengers scheduled to fly home from the Dominican Republic on the diverted plane.

McWilliams said since the plane had to land before its scheduled destination, it was overweight due to the unburned fuel on board."

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: AirCanada787
Posted 2013-02-04 19:20:25 and read 3348 times.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 27):

one expensive smoke is right:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...-family-bermuda-sunwing-court.html

"McWilliams estimates that the cost of diverting the flight could be as much as $50,000. He said those costs include:
Landing fees at Bermuda airport.
Flying a mechanic to Bermuda to examine the aircraft for defects (standard operating procedure for overweight planes.)
Cost to hire crew to search plane for cigarette butts to make sure they were extinguished.
Accommodations for passengers and crew overnight in Bermuda.
Accommodations for passengers scheduled to fly home from the Dominican Republic on the diverted plane.

McWilliams said since the plane had to land before its scheduled destination, it was overweight due to the unburned fuel on board."

Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-04 19:29:37 and read 3349 times.

Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 28):
Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.

An unruly AC passenger who forced a LHR-YYC 77W last August to divert to YEG was sentenced yesterday. In addition to a $4,000 fine and one year's probation, he was ordered to pay $15,200 restitution to AC to cover their costs. See this thread for details.
Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced (by Viscount724 Feb 4 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2013-02-04 21:04:29 and read 3231 times.

Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 3):
The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.

Provided an airline is willing to carry them. I have heard about an unruly British passenger some years ago, who was dumped on the island of Madeira because he caused trouble while on his way to the Canaries. Apparently there was no airline willing to carry him, so, after a long search, he had to buy an expensive sea travel ticket on a cargo ship going to Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK. From what I´ve read he lost his job as well, because the jounrney took much longer than his approved vacations.

Jan

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-02-04 23:34:17 and read 3028 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK.

Well, at least the train ride was nice. I've done that route.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: keegd76
Posted 2013-02-05 03:14:18 and read 2914 times.

From the article:
"My understanding is that these passengers were smoking in their seats, which is unusual to say the least," said McWilliams.

Talk about an understatement   

What I don't get is why prosecutors decided not to proceed with charging them, even though Sunwing has confirmed that it intends to sue the family.

Would love to hear what their defence to the charges was going to be.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Western727
Posted 2013-02-05 06:02:12 and read 2737 times.

Are there photos of the offenders somewhere online? Mug shots, perhaps?

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: ghYHZ
Posted 2013-02-05 06:45:30 and read 2667 times.

Quoting Western727 (Reply 33):
Are there photos of the offenders somewhere online? Mug shots, perhaps?

Yes in the CBC News links in Replys #25 & #27 above

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-02-05 07:50:46 and read 2481 times.

Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 7):
This is probably why they had to get a maintenance inspection as mentioned in the article. Many nooks and crannies in a 73G lavatory. Wouldn't want to end like AC in CVG.

The update mentions the reason that the aircraft was inspected was due to the overweight landing by regulation of all Canadian registered aircraft.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).

Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.

I think what will happen is that charges will be filed against them in Canada, to await their return.

At least I hope so.

They are being held in Bermuda, and their passports and travel documents have been seized. That is to say they aren't going anywhere. Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go. I am not sure of the laws in Bermuda but people who are awaiting trial out side of Canada cannot enter Canada even if they are a Canadian citizen, until the matte has been disposed of.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 31):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK.

Well, at least the train ride was nice. I've done that route.

The Chunnel train is a neat experience to take as well. I assume that is what they used to train back to the UK.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: tonyban
Posted 2013-02-05 07:56:08 and read 2451 times.

Slightly off-topic but was just wandering if smoking in-flight is now a Worldwide ban or are there countries/airlines that still permit smoking on-board ?

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2013-02-05 08:07:27 and read 2427 times.

Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 28):
Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35):
They are being held in Bermuda, and their passports and travel documents have been seized. That is to say they aren't going anywhere. Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go. I am not sure of the laws in Bermuda but people who are awaiting trial out side of Canada cannot enter Canada even if they are a Canadian citizen, until the matte has been disposed of.



As they plead guilty to a lesser charge (disobeying lawful commands from the crew), upon payment of the fine they will be free to go.

While the fines were minor, the cost will add up... lawyer in Bermuda, accommodation and flight home. Also I would imagine that they will not be compensated for their package deal, that they have lost out on. And then the lawsuit in Canada (the conviction will make it hard for them to avoid liability).

Question is, will Sunwing follow through to actually sue, and to actually enforce the judgement (i.e., seize and sell their house, or other assets)?

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: tonystan
Posted 2013-02-05 08:27:23 and read 2365 times.

I can think of worse places to be chucked off a flight,,,,,could also thing of cheaper places but still! Lol

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-02-05 12:27:43 and read 2150 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 35):
Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go.

And Bermuda isn't cheap!

Quoting brilondon (Reply 35):
The Chunnel train is a neat experience to take as well. I assume that is what they used to train back to the UK.

It is! The Shinkansen is sweet, too!

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 37):
upon payment of the fine they will be free to go.

Assuming they still have equity in their home.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 38):
I can think of worse places to be chucked off a flight

Went there on my honeymoon (on a cruise). The place is idyllic.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2013-02-05 12:47:10 and read 2095 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
Looks like the flight is about to land at PUJ. Even if there weren't rules and guidelines, provided that somebody actually did ask them to, wouldn't you think a decent person would decide not to smoke if somebody says it would bother them?

Or when told that the aircraft will land and they will be deplaned and arrested?

Quoting AY104 (Reply 6):
Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.

The word "boorish" is as old as Shakespeare and is proof that boorish behavior is nothing new or more prevalent "these days." You just didn't hear about this sort of thing in the past. If this behavior was common, you'd never have heard about it.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 37):
While the fines were minor, the cost will add up... lawyer in Bermuda, accommodation and flight home. Also I would imagine that they will not be compensated for their package deal, that they have lost out on. And then the lawsuit in Canada (the conviction will make it hard for them to avoid liability).

Question is, will Sunwing follow through to actually sue, and to actually enforce the judgement (i.e., seize and sell their house, or other assets)?

I think they will. It's a lot of money and also, Sunwing has an interest in making an example of this family.

Topic: RE: WG Diversion After Family Refuses To Stop Smoking
Username: Brandane
Posted 2013-02-05 13:02:39 and read 2045 times.

Quoting AY104 (Reply 6):
We have proportionally just as many angry and thoughtless people up here, as anywhere else in the world. Geographically, a large country, but only about 35 million population.

Times are indeed changing. I was born in 1949, and spent all but 6 years of my life here. The rest of the world's perception that things can and don't happen up here is purely a myth. The fact that Canadians are all friendly, nice people is indeed no more than a notion.

Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.

It's nice to hear that these people are not exclusive to the UK! Although we do seem to have more than our fair share of them.


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