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Topic: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-09 16:07:52 and read 13940 times.



THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
PART LI

"Tribute to SAM COLOMBIA in Central America"

SAM was the acronym of "Sociedad Aeronautica de Medellin" and it sustained a close commercial relationship with Avianca.
I found information since the 60s concerning to their former operations in the isthmus.
Confirmed destinations: Guatemala City, Tegucigalpa, Panama City, San Jose.
Confirmed equipments: Lockheed L-188 Electra, Boeing 720, Boeing 727 series, BAe 146





Any expansion in the forum would be appreciated.

Edited on December 09th, 2012

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-09 16:38:01 and read 13934 times.

Talking about SAM Colombian airlines, not sure if they also flew to SAL (when it was Ilopango MSSS), scheduled or charters..
After SAM was gone, so was the scheduled SJO-ADZ, haven't heard of any other airline flying that route again.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-09 19:03:28 and read 13876 times.

From the top of my head: I can almost remember SAM flying BOG-ADZ-SJO-GUA with 727 series in the late 80s. IATA designator: MM.
They also served the SJO-TGU segment for a little while in the 80s.
LACSA flew the SJO-ADZ segment in the 70s and prior to the 727 era. SAM flew the same route with Electra turbo-props.
Speaking about SJO, the BAe 146 was utilized sometimes in the 90s. During the early years of this century, AV operated the BOG-SJO sector using the MM designator for their flights.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2012-12-09 21:08:43 and read 13838 times.

Yeah I remember seeing them at GUA in the old terminal config. They usually used gate 1

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-11 04:55:38 and read 13684 times.

Gotta love those Electras!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-11 06:51:38 and read 13661 times.

Panama government orders Tocumen INC to stop bid From www.prensa.com in Spanish
The Panamanian government ordered government owned Tocumen INC to stop the bid for the improvement and re-furnishing of the airport immigration and customs area.
As it's, even as the number of arriving passengers is no-where near the connecting ones, Tocumen immigration and customs is a shame, tight, small and really overcrowded several times per day.
Sadly, it looks like it's going to remain the same until the South Terminal is completed and hopefully all immigration and customs procedures will take place there.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-11 19:10:44 and read 13578 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 4):
Gotta love those Electras


You gave material for the name of future threads: "Electras in Central America" We can speak about those local airlines who owned this kind of turbo-props: COPA, LACSA, SAHSA, the former TACA and so on.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 1):
After SAM was gone, so was the scheduled SJO-ADZ, haven't heard of any other airline flying that route again


TACA has barely operated the SJO-ADZ sector twice a week as charter flights attending the Decameron Resorts from the island. These flights are usually deploying the 100-seater E-90.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-12 16:06:35 and read 13462 times.

according to another thread AV/TA just ordered some ATRs

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...ncataca-orders-15-atr-72-600s-1212

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: av757
Posted 2012-12-12 17:21:04 and read 13442 times.

SAM Colombia never had BAE-146, They operated 10 Avro RJ100's.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-13 18:36:40 and read 13297 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7):
AV/TA just ordered some ATRs


TACA REGIONAL has utilized second-handed ATR-42s.
I understood AV/TA has opted for 15 brand-new ATR 72-600 series based on the experience of their regional planes utilized in Central America.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: avi8
Posted 2012-12-13 21:02:56 and read 13268 times.

Where will they use them? Perhaps they will be used to create smaller banks in SAL and SJO? Maybe add a regional turboprop hub at GUA?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2012-12-14 04:40:58 and read 13229 times.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 10):
Where will they use them? Perhaps they will be used to create smaller banks in SAL and SJO? Maybe add a regional turboprop hub at GUA?

They will retire the ATR42 and bring the ATR72 to Guatemala, so routes GUA-FRS, GUA-SAP, GUA-TGU will be on the new ones.

Juanchito

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-17 05:51:34 and read 12961 times.

Does anyone know if CO (now UA) are bringing their usual widebodies to SAL, GUA etc over the holidays?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-17 06:29:07 and read 12950 times.

I read today Copa is increasing Cancun to 5X daily, all 737operation... looks like a good route for Copa.

I assume most of that traffic to Cancun is from South America?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-17 06:51:25 and read 12939 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 13):

I read today Copa is increasing Cancun to 5X daily, all 737operation... looks like a good route for Copa.

I assume most of that traffic to Cancun is from South America?

Maybe the odd person off of KLs AMS flight....

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-17 09:30:27 and read 12915 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 13):
I read today Copa is increasing Cancun to 5X daily, all 737operation... looks like a good route for Copa.

Even worse scenario to see CM in MID.
In southern Mexico CM E190 PTY-VSA.HUX-PTY route may look interesting some day soon.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-17 10:39:19 and read 12890 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 15):
Even worse scenario to see CM in MID.

MID would work. How about a PTY-BZE-MID-BZE-PTY....there is MID-BZE traffic.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: MGASJO
Posted 2012-12-19 08:22:50 and read 12715 times.

For all of us pilots and aviation lovers alike in Central America, there is an Air Rally scheduled in 2013 in our mid continent.
More information:
http://airrally.com/2/rally.htm

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-19 08:57:36 and read 12703 times.

UA has added IAD-GUA/SJO and ORD-SJO

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...nal-domestic-routes-153000543.html

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-19 13:36:00 and read 12656 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 16):
MID would work. How about a PTY-BZE-MID-BZE-PTY....there is MID-BZE traffic.

So much wishful thinking.
I really doubt México would allow CM traffic between BZE and MID or anywhere in Mexico.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-19 13:46:33 and read 12653 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 19):
I really doubt México would allow CM traffic between BZE and MID or anywhere in Mexico.

That is not mexico's to give. as the midpoint it would be Belize's rights....and CM can have those anytime it wants.
Dont forget CO used to operate IAH-MID-BZE-MID-IAH with full traffic rights (I know cause I used to fly it BZE-MID). It believe it was in the 90's they used to do that.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-19 14:48:58 and read 12632 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 20):
That is not mexico's to give. as the midpoint it would be Belize's rights....and CM can have those anytime it wants.

I don't think CM has any Mexican frequencies left to use for MID.
Last Mexico gave CM MTY, PVR and SJC.
If CM could get Mexico to allow it to fly to other Mexican cities than PVR and SJC, surely CM would ask for TLC way before MID if none the frequencies can be used for extra flights to MEX.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-19 18:33:35 and read 12587 times.

IF CM wants to fly to MID, the Yucatan Gov't will make it happen.....

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-20 06:04:56 and read 12531 times.

Any guesses on which "Americas" carrier is behind the undisclosed C-Series order yesterday. The quantities involved strike me as latin and it would be a perfect "smaller aircraft" for CM. Would be ideal for Caribbean and smaller mexican / latin destinations

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-20 07:30:16 and read 12506 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
it would be a perfect "smaller aircraft" for CM

After all that investment in adding the Embraer aircraft to an all Boeing 737 fleet, CM would drop the Brazilians and go Canadian?
Would look like the kind of order Latam or Aeroméxico would place..

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-20 08:40:49 and read 12552 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 19):
So much wishful thinking.
I really doubt México would allow CM traffic between BZE and MID or anywhere in Mexico

Mexico wouldn't grant that, Aeromexico's management would go insane if that happnes... AM's management knows people in some high-up places

Several years ago AM's CEO made a few phone-calls demanding Malaysia's LAX-MEX rights to be remove. the rest is history

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-20 11:41:42 and read 12508 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 25):
Mexico wouldn't grant that,

Don't be so sure...times are changing in Mexico.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-24 05:47:32 and read 12429 times.

December has almost come and gone and Tropic Air is still waiting on it Mexican approvals to start BZE-CUN. This was promised in Oct from the Government of Mexico.

One has to wonder if Tropic will get frustrated and used the equipment elsewhere....maybe RTB or LCE

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-12-24 07:08:08 and read 12415 times.

Hello guys, someone here can tell me if these rumors are circulating there too?

According to CM staff here in MAO, CM is searching the potential market for LET-MAO, to compete with T4 (TRIP AZUL), TRIP flies an ATR to TBT, the border sister city of LET, people in the Amazon have no road options, they can either stick to the 6 DAYS boat travel in order to reach the border towns with colombia and Peru! or take the up to 500 usd return regional TRIP flight!

PS- for a few years now, most of south american citizens don't need passports to visit or transit in each other for up to 90 days, so that could help a loooooooot!

[Edited 2012-12-24 07:11:36]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-24 08:12:02 and read 12396 times.

"December has almost come and gone and Tropic Air is still waiting on it Mexican approvals to start BZE-CUN. This was promised in Oct from the Government of Mexico."

That'd would be a really good route for them (if they get it).. But If they're waiting on the Mexican government, well............

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-24 08:36:53 and read 12410 times.

Confirmed new flights in Central America next year:

United. Washington Dulles - Guatemala City
UA 1606.....IAD 09:00.......GUA 11:33.......Sa.......738
UA 1658.....GUA 12:40.....IAD 19:26.........Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

United. Washington Dulles - San Jose
UA 1180.....IAD 09:00.......SJO 11:46.......Sa.......738
UA 1623.....SJO 13:25......IAD 20:10........Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

United. Chicago O'Hare - San Jose
UA 1187.....ORD 08:15.......SJO 12:21.......Sa.......738
UA 1651.....SJO 13:01........ORD 19:24......Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th




.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 28):
CM is searching the potential market for LET-MAO

Perhaps any tag-on for the existing CM BOG-LET 7x weekly.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
IF CM wants to fly to MID, the Yucatan Gov't will make it happen

I don't think any tag-on called BZE-MID would be within the interests of Copa Airlines.
If the Panamanian airline might fly some day in Belize City, it would operate in a similar pattern like CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 21):
CM would ask for TLC

Copa Airlines looks like well positioned at CM PTY-MIA 33x [December 10 - January 26], CM PTY-MEX 28x weekly and CM PTY-GRU 28x weekly.
I'm not sure if they would fly in alternative airports later such as Ft. Lauderdale, Toluca and Campinas respectively.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2012-12-24 12:46:48 and read 12346 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 30):
United. Washington Dulles - Guatemala City
UA 1606.....IAD 09:00.......GUA 11:33.......Sa.......738
UA 1658.....GUA 12:40.....IAD 19:26.........Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

Another Saturday only flight... well better than nothing, right?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-24 15:40:58 and read 12339 times.

Quoting aer (Reply 31):
Another Saturday only flight... well better than nothing, right?

UA IAD-SAL 7x weekly is hitting stronger than UA IAD-GUA 1x weekly and UA IAD-SJO 1x weekly, in terms of their weekly frequencies. TA SAL-IAD usually operates more than 2x daily flights.
The interesting question consists to determine if UA would fly to Panama City, in spite of CM PTY-IAD 14x weekly.
The former UA operated the SJO-ORD segment almost ten years ago.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-24 16:14:56 and read 12328 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 30):

I'm based at IAD. You can see the IAD-SAL United banners everywhere around the airport. UA wants a piece of this market

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SHAQ
Posted 2012-12-24 16:43:47 and read 12313 times.

I think it would be perfect for UA if they fly SFO-PTY-SFO overnighting at PTY and leaving at 6AM to arrive in the morning bank. A schedule like that would enable a lot of Asians connections from PTY.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2012-12-24 23:17:52 and read 12268 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 33):
the IAD-SAL United banners everywhere around the airport. UA wants a piece of this market

The former UA was code-sharing with TA SAL-IAD for years, but it seems that the schedule and frequencies never satisfied completely to the airline, given the incursion of UA SAL-IAD 7x weekly with its own metal since December 19th.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-26 17:14:15 and read 12091 times.

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 34):
I think it would be perfect for UA if they fly SFO-PTY-SFO overnighting at PTY and leaving at 6AM to arrive in the morning bank. A schedule like that would enable a lot of Asians connections from PTY.

could the 73G make this? I think it would have to be a 752

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 35):
The former UA was code-sharing with TA SAL-IAD for years, but it seems that the schedule and frequencies never satisfied completely to the airline, given the incursion of UA SAL-IAD 7x weekly with its own metal since December 19th.

Expect to see lots more IAD stuff over the next 18 months....IAD-SAP/BZE/MGA are all in the cards

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-30 11:09:33 and read 11823 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 30):
Perhaps any tag-on for the existing CM BOG-LET 7x weekly.

How about CM/P5 MAO-LET-IQT?

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 34):
I think it would be perfect for UA if they fly SFO-PTY-SFO overnighting at PTY and leaving at 6AM to arrive in the morning bank. A schedule like that would enable a lot of Asians connections from PTY.

That wouldn't work for CM hub. CM's hub 1st departures are around 0715, however a SFO-PTY 0600 arrival may suit CM, albeit with limited connections.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 36):
could the 73G make this? I think it would have to be a 752

It could.
If CM is forced to order B737-900ER in order to add capacity to destinations where CM can't add frequencies, then 2B737-800 would be the same as 1 B737-900ER and 1 B737-700.
A B737-700 with Sky interior would be ideal for a PTY-SFO non-stop, but surely if CM wants to fly B737-700 to SFO better have that aircraft with a configuration carrying less passengers than their standard B737-700.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-31 07:45:16 and read 11693 times.

PTY expected to break 6million passenger mark before years end from www.prensa.com in Spanish
Until October 5.7 million passengers used PTY, a one million increase for same 10 month period 2011.
6.8 million passengers are expected to use PTY 2013, a figure which could double when the new terminal would be ready.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-01 18:17:02 and read 11521 times.

Air Transat is operating these season some unusual charter flights routed as Panama City - Liberia - Edmonton.




.

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 34):
it would be perfect for UA if they fly SFO-PTY-SFO overnighting at PTY and leaving at 6AM to arrive in the morning bank. A schedule like that would enable a lot of Asians connections from PTY.
CM PTY-LAX is already operating up to 3x daily flights some days where immediate connections heading to Asia through selected Star Alliance members are now possible.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 36):
IAD stuff over the next 18 months....IAD-SAP/BZE/MGA are all in the cards


Notice that these stations have very limited or non-existing weekly frequencies out of EWR.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 37):
How about CM/P5 MAO-LET-IQT?


I expect this flight would be originated either at BOG or PTY.
I'm not convinced if this pattern really fits into their schedule allocations.




Special message: Happy 2013 to all the posters and followers from the Cent Am aviation series !

[Edited 2013-01-01 18:22:56]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-02 16:12:39 and read 11395 times.

Did Easy Sky have another accident? I am told that they ceased operations and that CMairlines is assuming their routes and pax

Wait, I just found the story....apparently they did....

http://avherald.com/h?article=45b73654

[Edited 2013-01-02 16:42:58]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-03 17:58:03 and read 11265 times.

Here's the summary of the main topics related to the Central American aviation landscape throughout the 2012.
Sorry for the delay due to New Year's day celebrations !         


January 01: TA LIM-CUZ-PEM 7x weekly New flight
January 02: TA CUZ-AQP 3x weekly. New flight
February 29: AeroPerlas stopped their operations
March 03: PM BZE-RTB. New flight
March 12: PM BZE-SAP. New flight
April 16: AM MEX-SAL: 7x weekly 73G New flight
May 31: KX GCM-PTY 2x weekly 733 New flight. Seasonal
June 01: TA/LR SJO-BOG-BSB. New flight
June 02: TA SJO-MTY 3x weekly. New flight
June 02: TA LIM-BSB 3x weekly. E90. Discontinued
June 10: CM PTY-CUR 3x weekly E90 + 1x weekly. 73G New flight
June 17: TA SAL-ORD 2x weekly. Discontinued
June 21: AV/TA + CM entered into Star Alliance
June 21: 4O SJO-MEX 7x weekly. New flight
June 23: CM PTY-REC 4x weekly. 73G New flight
June 24: CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly. E90 New flight
June 27: CM PTY-LAS 5x weekly. 738 New flight
June 29: TAG from Guatemala may acquire Saab or CRJ-200
July 07: AM CUN-SJO 7x weekly. New flight
July 11: BV FCO-HAV-MGA-FCO 1x weekly. 763. New flight.
July 13: TA won the Skytrax. 4th consecutive year. Best airline Cent Am/Caribbean.
July 20: CM may order the 737 MAX version. First plane: 2017
July 14: CM PTY-IQT 2x weekly. E90. New flight
August 24: TA LIM-MDE 3x weekly + TA LIM-CLO 3x weekly. Non-stop service
September 17: 9V BLA-PTY 2x weekly. New flight
October 28: KL AMS-PTY 5x 77W + 2x772. No more MD-11s
October 29: WS YYZ-LIR 2x weekly. 738 New flight
November 17: AA MIA-RTB 1x weekly. 738 New flight
December 19: UA IAD-SAL 7x weekly. New flight


Highlights:

CM added more than 7x weekly frequencies at UIO, GYE, CUN, PUJ, MDE, JFK, CTG, SJU, SCL, MIA, LIM, IAD, SJO and GRU.
TA announced the integration into AV mainline as soon as the first half of 2013.
The following stations received new airlines in 2012: SAL - PTY - SJO - RTB - LIR - MGA
The following stations operated new destinations in 2012: BZE - SAP - PTY - SJO - LIR - MGA - RTB.


Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-03 19:24:01 and read 11227 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 41):
March 03: PM BZE-RTB. New flight

Never started, but will this year along with CUN

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-07 06:00:49 and read 11076 times.

Seems like CM will be starting PTY-BOS.

Is it me or those this seem like a way to discourage B6 from Starting PTY.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2013-01-07 07:50:17 and read 11059 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):
Is it me or those this seem like a way to discourage B6 from Starting PTY.

As long as it gives GUA more possibilities with B6, they should start right away hehehe.

Seriously, it's a great addition, but I'm a bit skeptical on market size.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-07 07:52:13 and read 11044 times.

Quoting aer (Reply 44):
As long as it gives GUA more possibilities with B6, they should start right away hehehe.

Seriously, it's a great addition, but I'm a bit skeptical on market size.

Im with you on both statements!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-07 17:35:19 and read 10999 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):
Seems like CM will be starting PTY-BOS.

That's on JUL10 according to sources.

Quoting aer (Reply 44):
Seriously, it's a great addition, but I'm a bit skeptical on market size.

I'd not underestimate PTY (hub) - BOS.
I'd have liked a different schedule not those 14 hours between PTY-BOS and BOS-PTY in BOS tarmac but CM may be able to offer Star Alliance connections @ BOS then.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-07 18:42:41 and read 10980 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):
Seems like CM will be starting PTY-BOS.

CM 718..........PTY 11:46............BOS 18:16..........Daily...........73G
CM 719..........BOS 09:54............PTY 14:28..........Daily...........73G
Effective: July 10th

Source: amadeus.net




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):
this seem like a way to discourage B6 from Starting PTY.

I've never thought B6 BOS-PTY as a viable possibility for the airline as they're getting a very limited schedule in Central America. Furthermore, B6 JFK-LIR will be discontinued in June.




.

Quoting aer (Reply 44):
it's a great addition, but I'm a bit skeptical on market size.

The hypothetical B6 BOS-PTY may work totally different compared to CM PTY-BOS. Copa Airlines has so far the advantage.
CM has indeed demonstrated a great potential for their US routes. For instance, CM PTY-LAS was rapidly upgraded in terms of weekly frequencies prior to its first flight.
My perception is that all the US flights operated for CM are practically packed. This could be confirmed analyzing how CM PTY-MIA goes from 33x to 35x weekly on June 17th, CM PTY-LAX goes from 19x to 21x weekly on July 09th and CM PTY-MCO goes from 21x to 28x weekly on July 02nd. These flights are mostly loaded with passengers from Central and South America and the coming CM PTY-BOS 7x weekly may follow a similar behavior.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-01-07 20:20:31 and read 10937 times.

This is a nice surprise for me however it seems to be a well though move (as all of the CM moves)   

any idea on how ORD and YYZ loads are doing ?

thanks

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-08 05:55:13 and read 10885 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 48):
any idea on how ORD and YYZ loads are doing ?

I'd guess CM is wishing the bilateral didn't restrict CM to 4 weekly scheduled frequencies to Canada.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-08 18:53:06 and read 10801 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 48):
any idea on how ORD and YYZ loads are doing ?

Copa Airlines in Chicago.

Filter period........Seats..........Passengers..........Occupancy
.April 2012..........7440.................4834....................65%
.May 2012..........7688.................4767.....................62%
.June 2012.........8650.................6159.....................71%

Source: US DoT.

My former hypothesis is not totally valid...  



.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 47):
My perception is that all the US flights operated for CM are practically packed

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-09 07:00:21 and read 10726 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 50):
Copa Airlines in Chicago.

Filter period........Seats..........Passengers..........Occupancy
.April 2012..........7440.................4834....................65%
.May 2012..........7688.................4767.....................62%
.June 2012.........8650.................6159.....................71%

PTY-ORD-PTY is more ORD O/D than connections with UA flights.
Pretty sure if CM schedules would allow more connecting possibilities @ ORD loads would look a bit different.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2013-01-09 13:16:43 and read 10703 times.

Mini trip repoooooort, mini trip repoooort!!!!

Right guys this will be a quick one!

First time flying TA bussiness class! I had to book C cause the system didn't let me book Y, and there were seats avaiable, strange, but anyways!

LR 671 SAL SJO on 04 JAN

I was in SAL to celebrate my birthday, I like to visit different countries, back to aviation topic: only ticketed pax can enter the airport, this is because the people are panicked by the MARAS (gangs) so they fear everything that moves! Quite annoying because we from Brazil are "quite" used to face death at anytime! (my uncle was shot dead on the atm a few years ago).

I was second in line but it took foreeeeevvveeeerrrrr, and that because I did webcheck-in!

Airport OK, as a hub to TA I though I was going to see them taking over everything, but all you can notice from them is their ground staff and the flights announcements...

When you fly TA departure tax is already included on the price, which is less one hassle to deal with.

X-ray staff don't assist you at all, they only send you back to remove or discart anything that is either illegal or whatever, didn't have problems with them cause I travel liquids free on carry on!

Flight on time meals tasty, crew made weird face cause I asked for cold milk!


Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-09 17:09:35 and read 10650 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 52):
Mini trip repoooooort, mini trip repoooort!!!!

Cant wait for your Tropic Trip report.....

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-09 22:08:07 and read 10611 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 51):
Pretty sure if CM schedules would allow more connecting possibilities @ ORD loads would look a bit different.

CM PTY-ORD 7x weekly began in December 2011 and their services are not plenty consolidated at this time.
This could be only the first step for their flights in Chicago depending on the demand of passengers, of course. I mean: the airline might rise their weekly frequencies in the future as they did it in Miami, Orlando, Los Angeles and New York City.




.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 52):
When you fly TA departure tax is already included on the price

This is not valid for your departing flight out of SJO as you must pay the US 28 at the airport.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-10 17:11:27 and read 10518 times.

The dedicated TA/LR SJO-MDE non-stop service is no longer available since TA SAL-MDE 4x weekly started on January 02nd.
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-10 17:31:29 and read 10509 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 55):
TA/LR SJO-PTY-MDE 7x weekly commenced in the same date.

If I'm not mistaken last time AV flew MDE-PTY it was thru SAM w/BOG-MDE-PTY-ADZ route.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-14 07:06:16 and read 10325 times.

A couple of days ago I was checking availability to connect TA PTY-SJO with US SJO-PHX and it seems US PHX-SJO-PHX isn't timed to make immediate connections to/from AV(TA) or CM.
Being US, AV/TA and CM in the same Alliance, one could expect that to happen by now.
On the same US subject, rumour is that it's UA who doesn't like the idea of PHX/PHL/CLT-PTY to connect with CM hubs banks.
Too bad US dropped its international FLL operations, now a days FLL-PTY-FLL between CM code-share and Mileage Plus could have made the route work.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-14 10:10:29 and read 10278 times.

having to fly via MIA to get to CTG in Feb. Arrrrrrr!

I guess the good news is that I get to fly the AV babybus!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-14 18:42:27 and read 10201 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 57):
availability to connect TA PTY-SJO with US SJO-PHX and it seems US PHX-SJO-PHX isn't timed to make immediate connections to/from AV(TA) or CM.

The former code-share agreement called TA-UA as well as the current US-TA are mostly oriented for connections originated at airports placed in the United States.

Regards.

[Edited 2013-01-14 19:18:07]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-16 06:52:53 and read 10035 times.

CM passenger movement grew 24% in DEC2012 from www.prensa.com in Spanish
In a release to its stock-holders, CM announced that compared to DEC2011, passenger traffic increased 24% together with a capacity increase of 23%.
Every month for the last year CM increased the number of passengers flown by 20%.
CM estimated it'd fly 10million passengers last year, 2million more than 2011.
CM currently flies to 64 destinations in 29 countries and according to the piece of news in La Prensa, it's studying the feasibility to fly to at least 30 more destinations over the next few years.

30 new CM destinations (!) in the Western Hemisphere alone, IMHO, it may be possible. Problem is that lately CM isn't adding a sizable number of new destinations to its network as often as it should.
Among those new 30, who knows if CM is also counting new Colombian domestic service out of BOG or another Colombian airport.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-16 18:30:14 and read 9936 times.

TA/LR SJO-SDQ is no longer in service whereas TA/LR SJO-HAV is barely operating as 3x weekly.
Poor management for their Caribbean routes out of SJO.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 60):
CM isn't adding a sizable number of new destinations to its network as often as it should.


2011: BSB - POA - NAS - YYZ - ASU - ORD - MTY - MBJ - CUC [Copa Airlines Colombia].
2012: CUR - REC - LIR - LAS - IQT
2013: BOS

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-17 05:56:14 and read 9862 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 61):
2011: BSB - POA - NAS - YYZ - ASU - ORD - MTY - MBJ - CUC [Copa Airlines Colombia].
2012: CUR - REC - LIR - LAS - IQT
2013: BOS

IIRC, there was a thread some months ago in which someone posted a link to an article in which CM said REC, LIR, IQT were not doing so well and so they would focus on building frequencies on existing routes for awhile.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2013-01-17 06:59:09 and read 9847 times.

Mini trip repoooooorrrrt!

Okay, now the second TA leg! SJO PTY, as sjotolir said, tax not included which is a hassle, Costa Rica charge foreigners entryfee on the tickets but not on the outbound, must be those "job makers" type of thing! you must line for the fee and then line for the bag drop etc...

TA flight just normal, found them professional!

the other flight I had with Air Panama from PAC to CZJ  

Air panama co-pilot really young, probably on his 21ish but I'd tell he was 17! that made the "gringos" a little bit scared on the flight LOL!

San Blas islands are incredible, I'd recommend to anyone, go before it gets too commercial, the "gringos" are giving money for ANYTHING to the kuna indians, so now even if you ask a question they already expect any sort of "gift".

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-17 07:38:47 and read 9809 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 62):
IIRC, there was a thread some months ago in which someone posted a link to an article in which CM said REC, LIR, IQT were not doing so well and so they would focus on building frequencies on existing routes for awhile.

I'm going to think that CM knew what they were getting into w/LIR and IQT.

REC yields may have been a disappointment but I could foresee the route picking-up. If not, sure CM could add FOR to the return flight so to cover both REC and FOR with the same frequency and see how it performs, as my dream of an African tag-on to PTY-REC may be too much of an out-of-the-box thinking for both CM and Brazil.

LIR is a North-American centric leisure destination, getting other Latin Americans to holiday there isn't an easy job, IMHO it may work better as a short stop en-route to GUA twice/thrice weekly as some Gringos in Guanacaste region may find attractive to visit GUA without having to fly out of SJO (or MGA). I do expect CM to experience another LIR if it decides to try PVR (more than twice weekly).

IQT looks like a concession CM had to give Perú to get an extra LIM daily flight. CM still have a long way to go when it comes to promote how accessible IQT is thru its hub and get some major tour-operator to fly their customers to the Amazon via PTY rather than via LIM. I believe CM sooner or later will ask Perú for PTY-AQP so to get OK for yet another daily PTY-LIM.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-17 12:17:19 and read 9773 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 64):
LIR is a North-American centric leisure destination, getting other Latin Americans to holiday there isn't an easy job, IMHO it may work better as a short stop en-route to GUA twice/thrice weekly as some Gringos in Guanacaste region may find attractive to visit GUA without having to fly out of SJO (or MGA). I do expect CM to experience another LIR if it decides to try PVR (more than twice weekly).

The reason why LIR does not work for Lat Americans is you cannot market rainforest to people that have rainforest in their back yards.....how can you market Guanacaste to Brazilians for example when they have the Amazon.

Now you could market Maya sites or Barrier Reef to the Brazilians.

And that is why CM should have chosen BZE instead of LIR      

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-17 16:56:40 and read 9706 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
Now you could market Maya sites or Barrier Reef to the Brazilians.

And that is why CM should have chosen BZE instead of LIR

I Totally agree!
Question remains, what is CM going to do w/LIR not to drop the destination and make lots of people in Costa Rica quite upset as they'd probably still believe LIR might be sold quite well in South America?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-17 18:37:28 and read 9687 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 62):
CM said REC, LIR, IQT were not doing so well and so they would focus on building frequencies on existing routes for awhile.


CM PTY-REC: Inaugurated on June 23rd 2012.
CM PTY-LIR: Inaugurated on June 24th 2012.
CM PTY-IQT: Inaugurated on July 14th 2012.

More than five years backward, CM PTY-PAP and CM PTY-KIN were poorly served with no more than two weekly frequencies.
The airline never dropped their services and these flights are still operating as 4x weekly.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 64):
CM could add FOR to the return flight so to cover both REC and FOR


If I remember correctly, CM gets the traffic rights to operate SSA over FOR.
The airline should be cautious it they would open a new Brazilian destination in its north-eastern bound. It would depend based on the results of the questioned CM PTY-REC.
Perhaps the 2014 FIFA World Cup might rise the demand of passengers on CM PTY-REC.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
And that is why CM should have chosen BZE instead of LIR


I will debate this comment, of course...
CM PTY-LIR is even getting their stagnant 2x weekly frequencies. This route just began in June 2012 which means few months, in order to consolidate that market.
What is the argument related to the chosen of any CM PTY-BZE over the existing CM PTY-LIR? The fictitious CM PTY-BZE most likely has a little catchment area from South America as well.
As a matter of fact, CM PTY-TGU is actually loaded with a few percentage of passengers coming from South America.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
The reason why LIR does not work for Lat Americans is you cannot market rainforest to people that have rainforest in their back yards.....how can you market Guanacaste to Brazilians for example when they have the Amazon.


Brazilians are most likely loading other flights oriented to the leisure market such as CM PTY-MCO, CM PTY-LAS, CM PTY-PUJ, CM PTY-CUN, CM PTY-SXM and so forth.
The former hypothesis could have been something like that: if Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, St. Maarten and Havana are working well for the Brazilians flying on Copa Airlines; why cannot CM PTY-LIR do it right as well?

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-18 04:48:51 and read 9616 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 67):
More than five years backward, CM PTY-PAP and CM PTY-KIN were poorly served with no more than two weekly frequencies.
The airline never dropped their services and these flights are still operating as 4x weekly.

Yes, but those were "legacy" routes with a very high yield......esp PAP. LIR is not high yielding.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 67):
Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, St. Maarten and Havana are working well for the Brazilians flying on Copa Airlines; why cannot CM PTY-LIR do it right as well?

Have you seen the beach at LIR
 

No offence but it is harldy SXM

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-18 06:22:35 and read 9581 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 67):
More than five years backward, CM PTY-PAP and CM PTY-KIN were poorly served with no more than two weekly frequencies.

Years ago, PAP and KIN were flown almost only because of O/D traffic, perhaps thrice weekly would have been better than twice weekly, but those conditions are history now.
Most point out that CM flew to MBJ then too, later dropping it until recently re-starting the destination.
At that time, even adding MBJ to the KIN route made PTY-Jamaica not worth flown 5 times per week.

Quote:
why cannot CM PTY-LIR do it right as well?

IMHO, for a Brazilian, Costa Rica Guanacaste province may look like some kind of mix of the coast of Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro or Espíritu Santo states with the country flavour of Minas Gerais or Goias state.
It doesn't have Caribbean written all over.
If Costa Rica is so desperate to get CM to fly South American tourist to LIR; What's the problem the Tico Government suggesting CM to stop one of its dailies PTY-GUA 2-3 times per week in LIR instead of the current schedule, as It really looks like LIR alone can't support dedicated flights to CM hub right now?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-18 12:09:46 and read 9514 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 69):
If Costa Rica is so desperate to get CM to fly South American tourist to LIR; What's the problem the Tico Government suggesting CM to stop one of its dailies PTY-GUA 2-3 times per week in LIR instead of the current schedule, as It really looks like LIR alone can't support dedicated flights to CM hub right now?

IMHO....you even see some of the N. American carriers pulling back a little in LIR. Demand has to catch up to the airlift which seems to have gotten a bit ahead of itself.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-18 18:43:21 and read 9439 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 68):
Have you seen the beach at LIR


No offence but it is hardly SXM


No worries.   I got the point.
LIR as well as any other leisure station in Central America is not popular for South Americans and this fact is being reflected on the poor performance of CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly.
I repeat: this route has only seven months in service. Same with CM PTY-REC.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 69):
for a Brazilian, Costa Rica Guanacaste province may look like some kind of mix of the coast of Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro or Espíritu Santo states with the country flavour of Minas Gerais or Goias state.


Liberia is not competitive for them over other leisure stations attended by Copa Airlines: SXM, MBJ, PUJ, CUN and so on...




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 69):
If Costa Rica is so desperate to get CM to fly South American tourist to LIR; What's the problem the Tico Government suggesting CM to stop one of its dailies PTY-GUA 2-3 times per week in LIR instead of the current schedule, as It really looks like LIR alone can't support dedicated flights to CM hub right now?


The problem at this time is for Copa Airlines, not for the Costa Rican Government.
CM is operating tag-on segments in Central America: PTY-SJO-SAP, PTY-SJO-TGU, PTY-SJO-GUA, PTY-SJO-MGA and PTY-MGA-GUA. Thus, the airline is also attending the inner Central American traffic: VFR and the business component basically.
LIR is essentially tourism coming from Canada and the USA. I don't visualize possibilities for any CM PTY-LIR-GUA, CM PTY-LIR-MGA or so.
Having said that, I don't think Roatan is within the expansion plans of the Panamanian airline.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-18 19:13:18 and read 9432 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 71):
I don't visualize possibilities for any CM PTY-LIR-GUA, CM PTY-LIR-MGA or so.

I don't agree when it comes to PTY-LIR-GUA, why? Some of those North Americans in Guanacaste may find attractive to combine their holidays (or stays if they've relocated there) with a Guatemalan experience (Mayan and Colonial), something not found in Costa Rica.
Also any connecting traffic CM could get to/from Star Alliance UA and TA/AV @ GUA may be welcome.
Surely CM can get 30 passengers from/to its hub to LIR per flight and between GUA and LIR may be able to provide other 30 for the LIR-GUA and GUA-LIR segment. However I'd only expect a thrice weekly frequency on that odd route to do fine, no more, at least this year, or next.

Quote:
Having said that, I don't think Roatán is within the expansion plans of the Panamanian airline.

I agree. Definitely not in the near future.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-18 19:37:10 and read 9429 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 72):
I don't agree when it comes to PTY-LIR-GUA, why?


Few demand of passengers, even for the E90.
They can already fly TA GUA-SAL and then TACA REGIONAL [SAL-LIR]. This last flight is being operated with ATR-42 and their frequencies have not been increased lately.
On the other hand, I believe on CM PTY-GUA-BZE.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2013-01-18 22:09:03 and read 9386 times.

For some reason this is sounding like we're coming back to the hypothetical CM GUA mini hub. hehe

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-20 06:49:12 and read 9201 times.

JetBlue will start Ft. Lauderdale - San Jose service in June.

Dedicated thread: JetBlue Announces FLL-SJO (by mah4546 Jan 16 2013 in Civil Aviation)




.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 73):
They can already fly TA GUA-SAL and then TACA REGIONAL [SAL-LIR]. This last flight is being operated with ATR-42 and their frequencies have not been increased lately


One more point: there's no flights between Cancun and Liberia trying to combine leisure travelers in both destinations.




.
Based on "Reporte estadístico aeroportuario. Aeropuerto Internacional Tocumen 2011", this was the flow of passengers in Central America, including transit and the O&D component out of PTY.

1. San Jose 336 709. CM and TA included
2. Guatemala City 138 382. CM solely
3. San Salvador 104 638. CM and TA included
4. Managua 72 203, CM solely
5. Tegucigalpa 23 316 CM included
6. San Pedro Sula. No information due to low demand.
7. Liberia. CM PTY-LIR started in 2012.

The numbers don't include CM MGA-GUA, CM SJO-TGU, CM SJO-SAP, CM SJO-GUA, CM SJO-MGA.
We have to wait several months prior to get accurate information about CM PTY-LIR.

Regards.

[Edited 2013-01-20 06:50:37]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-21 06:50:13 and read 9041 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 75):
One more point: there's no flights between Cancun and Liberia trying to combine leisure travelers in both destinations.

I really doubt that CUN-LIR would be successful

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 75):
6. San Pedro Sula. No information due to low demand.

I don't understand this. I always thought that TGU-PTY was doing worse than SAP-PTY

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-21 08:37:41 and read 9027 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):
I don't understand this. I always thought that TGU-PTY was doing worse than SAP-PTY

Where are those E170/175 when CM really need them for those routes not able to support E190 as CM wanted?
I'm not sure if it's that same case in Ecuador, where PTY-UIO may perform better than PTY-GYE.
I just imagine what'd happen with PTY-VVI whenever CM starts LPB.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-21 09:21:03 and read 9015 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 77):
Where are those E170/175 when CM really need them for those routes not able to support E190 as CM wanted?

I have flown PTY-SAP three times...plane was pretty full all times. A colleague of mine in travelling the route next week, only could get business class...

I know the above is anecdotal, but it can't be doing that badly.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-21 19:49:28 and read 8922 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):
I really doubt that CUN-LIR would be successful


Agreed. Same with GUA-LIR-PTY.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 78):
I have flown PTY-SAP three times...plane was pretty full all times. A colleague of mine in travelling the route next week, only could get business class


Perhaps a huge percentage of the plane is rather loaded with passengers traveling the SAP-SJO segment whose numbers were not taking into account in quote 75.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-22 05:07:05 and read 8853 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 79):
Perhaps a huge percentage of the plane is rather loaded with passengers traveling the SAP-SJO segment whose numbers were not taking into account in quote 75.

Actually the time I have flown it I would 25% got off in SJO

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-22 17:39:15 and read 8752 times.

Copa Airlines consolidates their services in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic as their frequencies will rise from 21x to 25x weekly from June 18th.
As a result, CM PTY-PUJ is ranked as the third Caribbean destination, in terms of their weekly frequencies in such region.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 80):
the time I have flown it I would 25% got off in SJO
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):
I always thought that TGU-PTY was doing worse than SAP-PTY


Tegucigalpa: CM PTY-TGU 7x + CM PTY-SJO-TGU 7x
San Pedro Sula: CM PTY-SAP 5x + CM PTY-SJO-SAP 7x

Based on their weekly frequencies as well as the figures posted in reply 75, I have no doubts about a better performance in Tegucigalpa than San Pedro Sula.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 78):
it can't be doing that badly.
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 80):
the time I have flown it I would 25% got off in SJO



It's strange how the Panamanian aviation authorities categorized the amount of travelers to/from SAP as they didn't display any valid number for San Pedro Sula, in spite of their 12x weekly flights.
We cannot compare this magnitude with the extremely low CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-01-23 09:40:05 and read 8654 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 68):
Have you seen the beach at LIR

Which one? There are well over seventy of them accesible from Liberia.. rent a 4x4 at the airport and off you go.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 68):
it is harldy SXM

I would agree.. Sint Maarten/Saint Martin = 37 beaches on 70 kilometers of coastline.. Guanacaste province = 70+ different beaches on 300+ kilometers of coastline.

You oughta check out the Bahía Salinas area some day.. esp. El Jobo beach and then get back to me.  

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 75):
JetBlue will start Ft. Lauderdale - San Jos

Cool.. have you heard anything about once–weekly UA IAD/ORDSJO nonstops sometime in April?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-23 14:19:43 and read 8612 times.

So here is a prediction guys........AV will make the "we will leave *A" announcement within the next 12 months.

IMHO Richard Anderson is working hard to end the AV CM shotgun marriage.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2013-01-23 15:43:40 and read 8562 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 83):
So here is a prediction guys........AV will make the "we will leave *A" announcement within the next 12 months.

How come? Would it be a either they go or I go situation?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-23 16:28:34 and read 8565 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 83):
So here is a prediction guys........AV will make the "we will leave *A" announcement within the next 12 months.

IMHO Richard Anderson is working hard to end the AV CM shotgun marriage.

In other words, lets guess AV is to join Sky Team soon as Sky is desperate for a South American based partner in South America.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-23 16:59:49 and read 8543 times.

CM BOS News from Boston Globe today in English

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-23 17:16:42 and read 8538 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 86):
CM BOS News from Boston Globe today in English

So CM will be targeting S. America bound pax.....apart from those going to Colombia...most americans I know would rather connect in a US city (wherever that is) vs another country.

CM will get a few, but if they are counting on that the route won't succeed.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-23 17:42:19 and read 8529 times.

So check this out guys.....

Sounds like B6 wants in in GUA and PTY among others....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-america-and-the-caribbean-381426/

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-01-23 18:30:26 and read 8511 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 87):
most americans I know would rather connect in a US city (wherever that is) vs another country.

Going South America-PTY-BOS is a lot less stressful than South America-MIA-BOS.

Would you rather have to claim your baggage once or twice on your journey home?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-23 19:20:53 and read 8484 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 82):
have you heard anything about once%u2013weekly UA IAD/ORD%u2013SJO nonstops sometime in April?



United. Washington Dulles - Guatemala City
UA 1606.....IAD 09:00.......GUA 11:33.......Sa.......738
UA 1658.....GUA 12:40.....IAD 19:26.........Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

United. Washington Dulles - San Jose
UA 1180.....IAD 09:00.......SJO 11:46.......Sa.......738
UA 1623.....SJO 13:25......IAD 20:10........Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

United. Chicago O'Hare - San Jose
UA 1187.....ORD 08:15.......SJO 12:21.......Sa.......738
UA 1651.....SJO 13:01........ORD 19:24......Sa.......738
Effective: April 13th

UA IAD-SAL 7x weekly with 738 has just begun on December 19th 2012.
Liberia is currently served from IAH, EWR and ORD on UA. It's the only regional airport experiencing three routes on UA.
San Jose will soon operate four destinations on UA: IAH, EWR, IAD and ORD.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 83):
AV will make the "we will leave *A" announcement within the next 12 months.


It's not the first time I've read the same statement, my friend.




.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 89):

Going South America-PTY-BOS is a lot less stressful than South America-MIA-BOS.


Connections through PTY don't involve the baggage claim for in-transit passengers.




.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 75):
JetBlue will start Ft. Lauderdale - San Jose service in June


Speaking about JetBlue in Central America, the new focus city placed in San Juan, Puerto Rico hasn't touched yet any regional station as it was supposed before. I'm not sure about how SJU on B6 might work for Central America.
B6 FLL-SJO 7x weekly and B6 FLL-MDE 7x weekly are part of the realistic expansion of the airline in Latin America mainland.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-24 04:39:19 and read 8441 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 90):
Speaking about JetBlue in Central America, the new focus city placed in San Juan, Puerto Rico hasn't touched yet any regional station as it was supposed before. I'm not sure about how SJU on B6 might work for Central America.
B6 FLL-SJO 7x weekly and B6 FLL-MDE 7x weekly are part of the realistic expansion of the airline in Latin America mainland.

Base on the link in an earlier post I would say FLL/JFK-GUA/PTY are definitely in the cards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-01-24 19:07:07 and read 8338 times.

from today's Prensa :
http://www.prensa.com/impreso/economia/copa-creceria-14/152508

CM will grow 14% by adding 5 new destinations , new frequencies to Brazil, Dominican Rep and US. Additionally based on the chart included on the note, CM will receive 7 new 738 and retire 2 "old" 737 , proyecting 90 airplanes by the end of the year. Note that the numbers on the table does not add up for 2012.  

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-24 19:13:48 and read 8331 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 92):
CM will receive 7 new 738 and retire 2 "old" 737

Maybe CM planning department calls for the retirement of 2 "old" B737 (I presume -700) but anyhow CM has such a tight fleet use that probably it's time they keep a B737 on hold @ PTY for any inconvenience. The other one CM could well turn it into a freighter and fly it PTY-MIA-BOG daily.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-24 19:29:38 and read 8319 times.

From the attached press release:

"El 51.1% de los aviones que utiliza Copa son del fabricante estadounidense Boeing y el resto de la empresa brasileña Embraer.

E90: 26 aircrafts
73G: 18 aircrafts
738: 46 aircrafts

The 68% of their planes in 2013 have been manufactured by Boeing whereas the remaining aircrafts by Embraer.
CM tends to acquire the 738 over the 73G and the E90. I envisage the nice "Sky Interior" as the predominant version lately. No more 73Gs and E90s this decade !

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-24 20:14:46 and read 8309 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 94):
CM tends to acquire the 738 over the 73G and the E90. I envisage the nice "Sky Interior" as the predominant version lately. No more 73Gs and E90s this decade

Sooner or later CM will be facing the serious dilemma of how to increase seat capacity to frequency restricted destinations... I could only guess that CM may even order a couple of B737-900ER to fly to those and if CM wants to fly non-stop to SFO 1-2 B737-700 with Sky Interior will be ordered too.
As for the E190, not sure how CM will act, maybe CM will order some (E190/175) as a token to their wide access to Brazilian airports.
While E190 has allow CM to start thin routes before those were hub material, IMHO, B737-600 would have been much easier aircraft to integrate to its fleet.
For the fares they get away in charging, sure CM could have worked out how to fly that questionable CASM aircraft without losing money.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-25 05:38:31 and read 8261 times.

Well 5 new destinations....once again I would like to put my pitch in for my home base   

Having to go thru MIA to get to S. America from BZE is just ridiculous.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-25 07:20:00 and read 8243 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 96):
Well 5 new destinations....once again I would like to put my pitch in for my home base

Here is my guess for most possible new destinations:
BOS (well this one is already announced)
BZE
TPA
SSA
AQP

Others possible:
DAV (return to CM network)
SCU
SMR (flight from PTY)
CWB
GEO
BGI
GCM

Bear in mind that CM is getting ready for FIFA World Cup Brazil 2014 and pretty sure would like to cover as many Brazilian host cities as they're allowed.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-25 14:06:41 and read 8193 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 97):
Here is my guess for most possible new destinations:
BOS (well this one is already announced)
BZE
TPA
SSA
AQP

Here are my guesses....
TPA
MSY
BZE
BGI (I say this based on the success of POS and BGI is pushing hard there).

A surprise may be CLT

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-01-25 17:28:50 and read 8146 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 95):
I could only guess that CM may even order a couple of B737-900ER

100% agree !!! CCS and MEX will be at the top  
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 98):
Here are my guesses....
TPA
MSY
BZE
BGI

good choices !! I will add PMV (to get further CCS frequencies) and SFO   

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-01-25 18:38:28 and read 8120 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 98):
Here are my guesses....
TPA
MSY
BZE
BGI (I say this based on the success of POS and BGI is pushing hard there).

A surprise may be CLT

Maybe we can add DEN to the list...... you never know, and a few years ago the airport management at DEN stated they were in talks with CM to PTY, and it does take a while for carriers and their birds to materialize at DEN with actual flights, but it does happen...... and I guess it could be considered a hub to hub route......

 

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-25 20:53:57 and read 8098 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 98):
Here are my guesses....
TPA
MSY
BZE
BGI (I say this based on the success of POS and BGI is pushing hard there).

A surprise may be CLT

If CM is going to send any surplus MCO traffic to TPA to fill the PTY hub - TPA O/D, TPA could perform well.
MSY is desperate for a link with Latin America, but if it was based solely on O/D it'd rather be SAP.
BZE IMHO, a question of time..
BGI If CM can't get someone in South America to block a sizable amount of seats on each flight, I'd guess CM may rather choose GEO over BGI, however I'd like to see both as CM destinations this year.
CLT sounds interesting if US Airways doesn't want to fly to PTY. I bet the O/D Latin America traffic @ RDU is bigger than CLT. As for CM in ATL.. perhaps yes, perhaps no..

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 99):
100% agree !!! CCS and MEX will be at the top

Don't agree, YYZ and EZE will be at the top.
Something still could be done for CCS via MDE and BOG. MAR might get flight from BOG.
As for MEX, I don't see Mexico allowing any more CM flights into MEX anytime soon and I'm not sure if Mexico will allow CM to move some of the allocated frequencies to PVR and SJC to TLC as an option to increase frequencies to Mexico City.

Quote:
I will add PMV (to get further CCS frequencies)

I've the opinion that Venezuela won't allow CM more PTY-CCS/MAR frequencies (at least this year), if CM wants to play the flights to PMV card, what it probably would get could be a couple of frequencies to PZO and probably BRM too.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-25 21:11:29 and read 8120 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 101):

Don't forget msy is a big shipping town so a link with pty could work.
Maybe pty-sap-msy

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-25 21:35:00 and read 8119 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 102):
Don't forget msy is a big shipping town so a link with pty could work.
Maybe pty-sap-msy

The only one-stop CM service to the U.S.A. I can imagine would be PTY-XXX-SEA (XXX most likely GUA) as PTY-XXX-SFO may not be a product CM want on its routes and PTY-XXX-PDX may not have the PDX O/D needed, specially if CM was to try PTY-XXX-SEA.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2013-01-26 00:59:27 and read 8100 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 103):
The only one-stop CM service to the U.S.A. I can imagine would be PTY-XXX-SEA (XXX most likely GUA)

According to GCmap GUA-SEA is 2526 nm, I think that Boeing 737-700 or 737-800 airplane could be weight restricted remember GUA is at 5000 feet above sea level and has a 3km runway.

My brother works at United and tells me that the 737-800 sometimes goes weight restricted to EWR, that is not the case to IAH and that route is only 1782 nm.

Juanchito

[Edited 2013-01-26 01:00:26]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-26 05:23:26 and read 8065 times.

Didn't we establish some threads ago that a cm 73g would also be weight restricted on a hypothetical pty - sfo?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-26 08:05:30 and read 8041 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 104):
According to GCmap GUA-SEA is 2526 nm, I think that Boeing 737-700 or 737-800 airplane could be weight restricted remember GUA is at 5000 feet above sea level and has a 3km runway.

As CM is decreasing the number of B737-700 on its fleet, it's quite doubtful when CM decides to fly to SEA it'll have lots of those to fly the route via GUA. IMHO, probably the -700 may be able to take-off from GUA to SEA 2526nm non-stop, if not that's a route for a B737-600.   

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 105):
Didn't we establish some threads ago that a cm 73g would also be weight restricted on a hypothetical pty - sfo?

I believe we did, although similar distances PTY-SFO and MVD-PTY, the south-east to north-west PTY-SFO routing may encounter head-winds and possible long landing waiting times @ SFO which may jeopardise the B737-700 performance if flying with no weight restrictions.
I believe CM could get away with flying B737-700 PTY-SFO if among those B737 scheduled for delivery soon is a B737-700 w/Sky interior and a configuration with more C class seats / less Y than the other B737-700 on its fleet and that SFO bound flight departs from the CM hub bank when PTY temperature may be at its lowest.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2013-01-26 11:28:28 and read 8004 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 106):
I believe we did, although similar distances PTY-SFO and MVD-PTY, the south-east to north-west PTY-SFO routing may encounter head-winds and possible long landing waiting times @ SFO which may jeopardise the B737-700 performance if flying with no weight restrictions.
I believe CM could get away with flying B737-700 PTY-SFO if among those B737 scheduled for delivery soon is a B737-700 w/Sky interior and a configuration with more C class seats / less Y than the other B737-700 on its fleet and that SFO bound flight departs from the CM hub bank when PTY temperature may be at its lowest.

Something that should be consider is that SFO airspace is a lot more congested than MVD, this could affect this operation.

Juanchito

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-26 12:20:59 and read 7992 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 107):
Something that should be consider is that SFO airspace is a lot more congested than MVD, this could affect this operation.

We agree that we're aware of that.
I could imagine the area around SJC could provide interesting Latin America O/D traffic due to Silicon valley, plus other Bay Area (San Francisco included) and SJC just got NH to NRT, but sure CM isn't the kind of airline that would fly PTY-SJC and market it as San Francisco San Jose Airport.
Look what happen with CM to BOS, CM chose to fly to BOS and it's going to left its B737 on BOS tarmac very long when instead they could have flown to PVD daytime w/quick turn-around, save some $$ and market it as flying to Boston Providence Airport. And PVD does have direct rail-link to central Boston.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-26 17:20:49 and read 7951 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 107):
Something that should be consider is that SFO airspace is a lot more congested than MVD


In terms of distance, the PTY-SFO sector is practically the same compared to the current PTY-EZE which is currently served with the modern 738 every day.
The PTY-SFO segment sounds like a smart idea for the Panamanian airline and disregarding both wind and congestion issues in the Bay area.
Both TACA and LAN have demonstrated the sustainability of their operations in San Francisco.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 102):
Maybe pty-sap-msy


I recognize the existence of the O&D market between San Pedro Sula and New Orleans as TACA usually deploys charter services in such route.
However, Copa Airlines doesn't operate tag-on routes besides their Central American inner routes.

Regards.

[Edited 2013-01-26 17:39:45]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-01-26 17:23:32 and read 7951 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 101):
I don't see Mexico allowing any more CM flights into MEX anytime soon

that's my point before about CM getting the 737-900 to add capacity within the same frequencies  



as per airfleets, in late 2012 CM transfered out a fairly new 738 to DD (Nok Air, S/N 29670, ex HP-1529CMP, now HS-DBF) ..I'm a bit surprise since CM trends to hold on their frames a bit longer, was this a leased unit ? any idea how many more might follow ?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-26 17:39:07 and read 7947 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 110):
that's my point before about CM getting the 737-900 to add capacity within the same frequencies

It's very likely CM is more desperate to add seats to YYZ and EZE than to MEX.

Quote:
as per airfleets, in late 2012 CM transfered out a fairly new 738 to DD (Nok Air, S/N 29670, ex HP-1529CMP, now HS-DBF) ..I'm a bit surprise since CM trends to hold on their frames a bit longer, was this a leased unit ? any idea how many more might follow ?

Was the 1st B737-800 CM got (before Sky interior)?
If it was that one, then CM tested the configuration and didn't work well so CM chose to transfer it rather than re-configure it.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 109):
The PTY-SFO segment sounds like a smart idea for the Panamanian airline

And the like-hood CM will fly it before UA does it is quite high.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-26 17:48:14 and read 7949 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 111):
And the like-hood CM will fly it before UA does it is quite high.


I think so. The new expansion of United Airlines in Central America is rather aiming for flights departing out of both IAD and ORD: UA IAD-SAL, UA IAD-GUA, UA IAD-SJO and UA ORD-SJO.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-26 17:54:06 and read 7945 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 112):
The new expansion of United Airlines in Central America is rather aiming for flights departing out of both IAD and ORD

Surprisingly there's no UA interest in flying SFO-GUA/SAL.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-26 17:57:40 and read 7941 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 113):
Surprisingly there's no UA interest in flying SFO-GUA/SAL.


The former United Airlines rather discontinued UA LAX-GUA and UA LAX-SAL some years backward.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-01-26 18:42:19 and read 7912 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 111):

Was the 1st B737-800 CM got (before Sky interior)?

29670 was not really the first one .. there are several older 738

from airfleets, CM got 2 different Embraer 190 "types "; 190IGW (7 units) & 190AR (7 units) , also CM Coolmbia got these models + 190LR , not sure what's the difference on use for the different types, any idea ? thanks,  

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-26 19:18:40 and read 7902 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 115):
from airfleets, CM got 2 different Embraer 190 "types "; 190IGW (7 units) & 190AR (7 units) , also CM Coolmbia got these models + 190LR , not sure what's the difference on use for the different types, any idea ? thanks
www.embraer.com.br shows that there's difference between the range of an E190AR and an E190LR, probably has to do with fuel tanks and/or weight.
What I know is that is a common complain from CM Colombia (P5) passengers that the Colombian jets don't have business class seats.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-27 05:55:46 and read 7838 times.

Copa Airlines does operate their E90s in cities out of Panama City as far as Guadalajara and Manaus.
The autonomy of each plane depends on the version:

E190 IGW: 1 800 nm; standard version
E190 LR: 2 300 nm
E190 AR: 2 400 nm

The maximum takeoff weight also changes depending on the version.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-27 10:31:24 and read 7798 times.

Range circle 2300nm out of PTY, with some CM current routes know to be flown w/E190

That's a big chunk of the western hemisphere.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-28 17:14:23 and read 7643 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 91):
Base on the link in an earlier post I would say FLL/JFK-GUA/PTY are definitely in the cards


Are you sure with this statement related to the expansion of jetBlue in Central America ?
I would say Spirit Airlines is struggling into Guatemala City and Panama City in their flights out of Ft. Lauderdale.
Let's take a look at their current frequencies: NK FLL-GUA 4x weekly, NK FLL-PTY 3x weekly.
Their fares are not exactly cheaper than the services offered by their competitors heading to Miami: American Airlines in both stations and [TACA [Guatemala City] + Copa Airlines [Panama City]].
Furthermore, the weekly frequencies on both NK FLL-GUA and NK FLL-PTY were higher in the past and it's not the best landscape for a new competitor in such routes.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-01-28 17:17:22 and read 7641 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 119):
Are you sure with this statement related to the expansion of jetBlue in Central America ?

It is not my statement it is B6s (John Checketts). He specifically mentions GUA and PTY, You can read it here.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-america-and-the-caribbean-381426/

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-28 17:35:06 and read 7632 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 120):
it is B6s (John Checketts).


Point taken.
However, I even found strange the incursion of any B6 FLL-PTY and B6 FLL-GUA.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-29 05:45:19 and read 7567 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 121):
However, I even found strange the incursion of any B6 FLL-PTY and B6 FLL-GUA.

I'd think a possible CM PTY-FLL (specially if E190) would outperform any B6 FLL-PTY.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SHAQ
Posted 2013-01-29 11:15:55 and read 7504 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 122):

Are you sure? If B6 have lower fares than CM or AA, VFR O/D will fly with them and not with CM and AA.
Premium customers will continue flying CM or AA.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-29 11:44:25 and read 7493 times.

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 123):
Are you sure? If B6 have lower fares than CM or AA, VFR O/D will fly with them and not with CM and AA.
Premium customers will continue flying CM or AA.

Premium CM customers around FLL (read Aventura) would jump at the chance of flying out of FLL to PTY and anywhere CM may connect them.
One could always dream Mileage Plus passengers would earn miles and get award flights on B6 FLL-PTY.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-01-30 17:23:27 and read 7362 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 122):
I'd think a possible CM PTY-FLL (specially if E190) would outperform any B6 FLL-PTY.


Agreed.
The same reason about the low possibility of the incursion of any B6 MCO-PTY, taking into account CM PTY-MCO 28x weekly from July 02nd.
I think the current environment at PTY doesn't give advantage to jetBlue.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-01-31 06:54:06 and read 7277 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 125):
I think the current environment at PTY doesn't give advantage to jetBlue.

Unless B6 is to offer a product or destination not already offered by CM and best if Mileage Plus members are to earn miles on those flights.
So there still could be room for evening JFK-PTY + red-eyes PTY-JFK and/or red-eyes JFK-PTY + 0600h PTY-JFK, also evenings FLL-PTY, 0600h PTY-FLL.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-03 09:02:50 and read 7123 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 122):
I'd think a possible CM PTY-FLL (specially if E190) would outperform any B6 FLL-PTY.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 126):
Unless B6 is to offer a product or destination not already offered by CM and best if Mileage Plus members are to earn miles on those flights.
So there still could be room for evening JFK-PTY + red-eyes PTY-JFK and/or red-eyes JFK-PTY + 0600h PTY-JFK, also evenings FLL-PTY, 0600h PTY-FLL.

B6 would do just fine against CM

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-03 09:15:47 and read 7115 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 127):
B6 would do just fine against CM

B6 Schedule will play a big part on its success in PTY.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-03 12:47:47 and read 7067 times.

I keep on repeating: what would it be the innovation for any B6 FLL-PTY?
NK FLL-PTY 3x weekly already flies following the red-eye schedule allocation and trying to avoid CM PTY-MIA 33x weekly and AA MIA-PTY 21x weekly which are mostly operating as daylight flights.
The MIA-PTY sector is actually a bulky market; however, NK FLL-PTY 3x weekly has not demonstrated progress in their services linking Panama City and South Florida.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-03 15:10:57 and read 7032 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 129):
NK FLL-PTY 3x weekly has not demonstrated progress in their services linking Panama City and South Florida.

NK's failure /success in the market has zero bearing on any possible B6 success / failure. They draw two different kinds of clientele

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-03 15:23:05 and read 7041 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 129):
CM PTY-MIA 33x weekly and AA MIA-PTY 21x weekly which are mostly operating as daylight flights.

Looks like CM and AA might get some (token) competition on PTY-MIA. Boliviana has applied for VVI-PTY-MIA daily using 733s

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-03 15:38:42 and read 7032 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 131):
Looks like CM and AA might get some (token) competition on PTY-MIA. Boliviana has applied for VVI-PTY-MIA daily using 733s

That looks more like competition for NK FLL-PTY, specially if Boliviana is to fly the route with the same former Lloyd Aereo Boliviano schedule.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-05 14:12:10 and read 6879 times.

BZE airport authority have said that they are adding 10K sq feet of departure area inside security plus an additional departure gate......this will mean a longer walk for the pax arriving on domestic flights to the check-in area for the international carriers as the domestic arrivals (for those familiar with BZE) will now move further east.

Work is to commence pretty quickly and definitely needed for any new carriers (B6, CM, WN etc) and for existing carriers who have been asking for more space (like DL and UA).

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-05 15:39:15 and read 6868 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 131):
Looks like CM and AA might get some (token) competition on PTY-MIA. Boliviana has applied for VVI-PTY-MIA daily using 733s

Bolivian airlines don't have traffic rights U.S.-Panama.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-05 16:21:57 and read 6851 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 134):
Bolivian airlines don't have traffic rights U.S.-Panama.

If the only wanted the tech-stop why then don't look elsewhere, like an airport on VVI-MIA route with no Bolivia traffic?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-05 16:25:30 and read 6855 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 135):
If the only wanted the tech-stop why then don't look elsewhere, like an airport on VVI-MIA route with no Bolivia traffic?

Look at a map. It's almost exactly on the direct MIAVVI routing. BOG is the only airport on a more direct routing, but why bother with that airport's altitude/weather issues when PTY is superior.

Just doing the same as LAB and AeroSur - flying via PTY with no MIAPTY traffic rights.

[Edited 2013-02-05 16:26:15]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: copa330200
Posted 2013-02-05 20:25:49 and read 6783 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 136):
Just doing the same as LAB and AeroSur - flying via PTY with no MIAPTY traffic rights.

given the political relations between Bolivia and Venezuela I'm quite surprise they didn't stop there.. anyway, PTY will be very happy to take their money  

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-06 05:32:44 and read 6747 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 136):
Just doing the same as LAB and AeroSur - flying via PTY with no MIAPTY traffic rights.

As far as I know AeroSur never made it to PTY.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 137):
given the political relations between Bolivia and Venezuela I'm quite surprise they didn't stop there

Boliviana has far greater chance of getting 5th freedom rights from CCS to MIA. than G3 which applied for that and didn't get it. A Conviasa code-share and voila!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: LAXLocal
Posted 2013-02-06 06:43:37 and read 6724 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 133):
BZE airport authority have said that they are adding 10K sq feet of departure area inside security plus an additional departure gate......this will mean a longer walk for the pax arriving on domestic flights to the check-in area for the international carriers as the domestic arrivals (for those familiar with BZE) will now move further east.

Wouldn't that just about double the size of it?

LALocal

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-06 14:21:19 and read 6678 times.

Quoting LAXLocal (Reply 139):
Wouldn't that just about double the size of it?

Currently it is 6 departure gates.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-06 21:20:31 and read 6619 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 138):
Boliviana has far greater chance of getting 5th freedom rights from CCS to MIA. than G3 which applied for that and didn't get it


That's why G3 opted for SDQ instead.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-07 07:29:06 and read 6592 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 141):
That's why G3 opted for SDQ instead.

And for what I read on the Caribbean tread, G# isn't doing that good.

Talking about Brazil, an American charter company, Vision Air, will be operating flights between Brazil and BLB Howard airport for holiday programmes at hotels located close to MPRH Rio Hato Airport.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: PlunaCRJ
Posted 2013-02-07 08:31:32 and read 6583 times.

Quoting copa330200 (Reply 137):
given the political relations between Bolivia and Venezuela I'm quite surprise they didn't stop there.. anyway, PTY will be very happy to take their money  

Once, on a Lloyd flight MIA-VVI, because of an equipment change (to a 727) we had to make an unscheduled fuel stop at CCS. I don´t know why CCS was selected that night...

Lloyd's flight to PTY continued on to CUN, at least that is how I remember it... the schedule out of PTY was truly horrible. That flight was great though to fly to deep south america before CM's expansion.

Regards,

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: LAXLocal
Posted 2013-02-07 21:12:59 and read 6500 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 140):
Currently it is 6 departure gates.

I mean almost double the sqft , of the existing size of the international lounge.


LAXLocal

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-13 15:31:34 and read 6315 times.

So I am taking bets on the first new route for 2012 announcement involving Central America.....

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-13 20:44:58 and read 6253 times.

AeroMexico by means of AeroMexico Connect is serving some Central American cities: Guatemala City, San Salvador and San Pedro Sula whilst AeroMexico mainline operates in San Jose.
CM PTY-MEX 28x weekly with 738 bears the AM designator in all their flights. The big question consists if AM mainline is willing to fly someday at PTY using their own planes?

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-13 21:02:29 and read 6240 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 146):
AeroMexico by means of AeroMexico Connect is serving some Central American cities: Guatemala City, San Salvador and San Pedro Sula whilst AeroMexico mainline operates in San Jose.

SAL-MEX was downgraded from an E-jet to an ERJ-145 because of low loads..so clearly AV/TA is winning that battle

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2013-02-14 05:52:54 and read 6208 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 147):
SAL-MEX was downgraded from an E-jet to an ERJ-145 because of low loads..so clearly AV/TA is winning that battle

In GUA Taca has now just 2 weekly flights I think this flight will disappear.

Juanchito

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-14 15:45:28 and read 6142 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 145):
So I am taking bets on the first new route for 2012 announcement involving Central America.....

2013.. AS LAX–LIR, WN HOU–SJO.   

[Edited 2013-02-14 15:54:45]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: Tomassjc
Posted 2013-02-14 16:03:58 and read 6135 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 149):
2013.. AS LAXLIR

A lot of us at AS would love to see that. Costa Rica has been on the AS rumor mill for some time, along with BZE. Now that the 737-900ERs are arriving, I'm hoping it will happen too!

Tomas SJC

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-14 18:44:04 and read 6111 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 145):
So I am taking bets on the first new route for 2012 announcement involving Central America


Confirmed announcements for 2013:

January 02: TA SAL-MDE E90. 3x weekly
April 13: UA IAD-SJO 738. 1x weekly
April 13: UA IAD-GUA 738. 1x weekly
April 13: UA ORD-SJO 738. 1x weekly
June 27. B6 SJO-FLL 320. 7x weekly
July 10: CM PTY-BOS 73G. 7x weekly

Copa Airlines most likely will deploy more new stations this year.




.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 148):
In GUA Taca has now just 2 weekly flights I think this flight will disappear


Since the demise of MX GUA-MEX, TA GUA-MEX was up to 11x weekly and offering high prices in such route.
The incursion of both AeroMexico Connect and InterJet has undoubtedly hurt TA GUA-MEX.

Regards

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 04:37:02 and read 6075 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 149):
WN HOUSJO.   

Airport FIS will not be ready until early 2015 now.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-15 05:37:26 and read 6069 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 152):
Airport FIS will not be ready until early 2015 now.

Maybe WN is so desperate to fly to SJO that it'll start AUS-SJO and move the flight to HOU as soon as HOU's F.I.S. opens.
  

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-18 14:29:22 and read 5928 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 153):
Maybe WN is so desperate to fly to SJO that it'll start AUS-SJO and move the flight to HOU as soon as HOU's F.I.S. opens.
  

Don't think southwest is desperate to fly to SJO.....BOG, LIM and SAL...yes.....SJO....they want it, but not desperately.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-18 17:36:32 and read 5878 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 154):
BOG, LIM and SAL...yes

SAL and maybe BOG could work out of AUS.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-20 17:36:21 and read 5755 times.

Keep in mind UA is currently operating a huge amount of weekly frequencies into the Houston-Central America market.
Analyzing the San Salvador case: UA SAL-IAH 14x weekly and TA SAL-IAH 7x weekly. Thus, WN must bring a very interesting purpose, in order to catch passengers into the hypothetical HOU-SAL service.
Let's take a look to the situation of the South Florida market: since 2007 NK is flying to Central America and their fierce competitors have hurt the spread of Spirit Airlines in our geographical area.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-20 17:52:10 and read 5760 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 155):
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 154):
BOG, LIM and SAL...yes

SAL and maybe BOG could work out of AUS.

Neither can work out of AUS. AUSBOG couldn't even fill a bi-weekly Beech 1900D.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-21 06:51:01 and read 5674 times.

Would like to welcome our a.net friend Andre Franca to Belize. Looking forward to your trip report and don't drink too many Belikins!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-21 18:01:01 and read 5626 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 145):
So I am taking bets on the first new route for 2012 announcement involving Central America.....

I am going to go out on a limb and say DL LAX-SJO to start in Dec.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-22 07:44:44 and read 5539 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 159):
I am going to go out on a limb and say DL LAX-SJO to start in Dec.

Those news may raise some eyebrows now, but by Dec many things can change.
IMHO, SJO is such a market that probably DL SLC-SJO may even work and that one doesn't have to face a "local" competitor on the route.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-22 16:05:45 and read 5479 times.

Word is that Tropic Air FINALLY got its mexican license today (friday) and will commence BZE-CUN daily (except Sat) on March 25th.

I am told to expect the formal announcement early next week and should be bookable on their website by Wednesday.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-22 18:31:14 and read 5456 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 159):
DL LAX-SJO


The Los Angeles - San Jose sector has never been as profitable as other Central American cities with larger O&D demand from California such as San Salvador and Guatemala City. Even CM PTY-LAX goes from 19x to 21x weekly on July 09th.
AA LAX-SJO tried unsuccessfully to sustain daily flights and the dedicated TA/LR SJO-LAX is 4x weekly nowadays.
I remember other failed experiences in Central America: DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR. They didn't last too much probably to few demand of passengers.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: belizexp
Posted 2013-02-22 23:54:32 and read 5401 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 162):
DL LAX-BZE


I would love to see DL give it another try as a daily flight. Over the last few years DL has done a good job of marketing it BZE service but one daily Atlanta flight not going to cut it against AA and UA multiple flights.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-23 04:16:09 and read 5375 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 162):
I remember other failed experiences in Central America: DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR. They didn't last too much probably to few demand of passengers.

THose did not fail because of pax numbers. DL jsut pulled the plug on the whole LAX experiment.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2013-02-23 09:12:19 and read 5336 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 148):
In GUA Taca has now just 2 weekly flights I think this flight will disappear.

Juanchito

Taca cancelled direct flights from GUA to MEX

This route is now served 3 daily with Aeromexico (all flights with E190) and 1 daily by Interjet (A320)

Juanchito

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2013-02-23 10:29:33 and read 5327 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 165):
Taca cancelled direct flights from GUA to MEX

Another GU legacy route gone. I guess one of AM's flights might be upgraded to mainline or the one covered with a EM145 to be upgraded to a E190 and/or made daily.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-23 17:10:35 and read 5276 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 162):
I remember other failed experiences in Central America: DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR. They didn't last too much probably to few demand of passengers.



Other missed routes supplied by mainline carriers from the US in the last 10 years which are no longer in service:

US FLL-PTY
US FLL-SJO
US FLL-SAL
NK LAX-GUA
UA LAX-GUA
UA LAX-SAL
US CLT-GUA
CO LAX-SAL

Did I forget something ? Continental to Flores ?




.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 165):
Taca cancelled direct flights from GUA to MEX


The status of Guatemala City as "focus city" on TACA is decreasing as shown.
Too much competence offered by the Mexican carriers at GUA !

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-24 09:13:58 and read 5181 times.

IMO

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 167):
US FLL-PTY

The schedule worked against the success of the route.

Quote:
NK LAX-GUA

Now that AV/TA has lost some interest in GUA, that route could work, even ONT-GUA possibly work.

Quote:
UA LAX-GUA
UA LAX-SAL

As long as AV/TA are in Star Alliance UA won't operate those or even SFO-SAL, which it should too.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 11:53:36 and read 5152 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 160):
Those news may raise some eyebrows now, but by Dec many things can change.
IMHO, SJO is such a market that probably DL SLC-SJO may even work and that one doesn't have to face a "local" competitor on the route.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 162):
The Los Angeles - San Jose sector has never been as profitable as other Central American cities with larger O&D demand from California such as San Salvador and Guatemala City. Even CM PTY-LAX goes from 19x to 21x weekly on July 09th.
AA LAX-SJO tried unsuccessfully to sustain daily flights and the dedicated TA/LR SJO-LAX is 4x weekly nowadays.
I remember other failed experiences in Central America: DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR. They didn't last too much probably to few demand of passengers.

As per another thread...looks like it is loaded

"LAX-SJO flight beginning Dec 20th? DL465 red-eye southbound/DL466 morning return on a 757"



Per delta.com:

DL0465 LAXSJO 2215 0555 B757 D
DL0466 SJOLAX 0710 1130 B757 D

Appears to start December 20, 2013

[Edited 2013-02-24 12:00:24]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-24 13:12:52 and read 5114 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 169):
Per delta.com:

DL0465 LAXSJO 2215 0555 B757 D
DL0466 SJOLAX 0710 1130 B757 D

Appears to start December 20, 2013


That means more pressure for TA/LR SJO-LAX 4x weekly.
TA/LR must analyze carefully how the foreign carriers are taking advantage lately at some of their key routes: SJO-PTY, SJO-GUA, SJO-MIA, SJO-JFK, SJO-MEX and now SJO-LAX.
TA/LR also dropped SJO-MCO and this sector is currently operated by B6 with 320.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 168):
As long as AV/TA are in Star Alliance UA won't operate those or even SFO-SAL


I think so. UA LAX-SAL was dropped in favor to the code-share agreement with TA SAL-LAX.
TA SAL-SFO also bears the UA code and that happens before TACA belonged to Star Alliance.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 168):
US FLL-PTY

The schedule worked against the success of the route.


How was it ?
"Red-eye" schedule allocation ?

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-24 14:25:23 and read 5094 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 170):
TA/LR must analyze carefully how the foreign carriers are taking advantage lately at some of their key routes: SJO-PTY, SJO-GUA, SJO-MIA, SJO-JFK, SJO-MEX and now SJO-LAX

Might be a little late for that analysis.. rivals seem to be stepping up the pace and going in for the kill.   

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-24 14:42:49 and read 5092 times.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 150):
A lot of us at AS would love to see that
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 169):
DL0465 LAXSJO 2215 0555 B757 D
DL0466 SJOLAX 0710 1130 B757 D

Appears to start December 20, 2013

Someone beat you guys to it.. although when TA/LR (or remnants thereof) drops the route altogether (by all indications not a matter of if but when) then there should be enough room for both DL and AS.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 15:10:55 and read 5081 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 170):
That means more pressure for TA/LR SJO-LAX 4x weekly.
TA/LR must analyze carefully how the foreign carriers are taking advantage lately at some of their key routes: SJO-PTY, SJO-GUA, SJO-MIA, SJO-JFK, SJO-MEX and now SJO-LAX.

Analyze what? Foriegn carriers see opportunity. THis is just the beginning and not just for DL.

Everybody is busy trying to seize markets before the guys from Love Field swoop in a few years.

So now that my first prediction was right...you guys ready for my second?????????
 

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-24 15:14:29 and read 5073 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 173):
Everybody is busy trying to seize markets before the guys from Love Field swoop in a few years.

    
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 173):
So now that my first prediction was right...you guys ready for my second

Go ahead, lay it on us.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 15:17:43 and read 5071 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 174):
Go ahead, lay it on us.

Gotta wait till I know the schedule is loaded....don't want to look like a mayan prophecy here  

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: aer
Posted 2013-02-24 15:36:44 and read 5058 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 168):
Now that AV/TA has lost some interest in GUA, that route could work, even ONT-GUA possibly work.

Paging B6 hehe.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 171):
Might be a little late for that analysis..

How long will it take for CentAm to become completely up for grabs?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 15:59:54 and read 5067 times.

Quoting aer (Reply 176):
How long will it take for CentAm to become completely up for grabs?

I think most of it (except maybe Panama) already is. CM seems to have much better control of its turf than TA

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-24 17:36:19 and read 5041 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 177):
CM seems to have much better control of its turf than TA


Absolutely. Just taking a look into CM PTY-MIA which is 38x weekly with 738 nowadays, CM leads by far the amount of weekly frequencies in such route. AA MIA-PTY is 21x weekly with 738.
We found a total different history in San Jose: TA/LR SJO-MIA 7x weekly with E90 against AA MIA-SJO 28x weekly with 757.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-25 05:41:52 and read 4973 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 170):
How was it ?
"Red-eye" schedule allocation ?

Morning FLL-PTY, afternoon PTY-FLL wasn't attractive for the PTY O/D market.
US FLL-PTY 1900h and PTY-FLL 0600h would have been another story.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 177):
I think most of it (except maybe Panama) already is. CM seems to have much better control of its turf than TA

Proof of that is that meither T0 nor LP ever started LIM-PTY and G3 hasn't showed interest in flying to PTY.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 178):
Just taking a look into CM PTY-MIA which is 38x weekly with 738 nowadays, CM leads by far the amount of weekly frequencies in such route. AA MIA-PTY is 21x weekly with 738.
We found a total different history in San Jose: TA/LR SJO-MIA 7x weekly with E90 against AA MIA-SJO 28x weekly with 757.

Yes, but PTY is CM hub while SJO position as an AV/TA is in decline.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-25 10:10:50 and read 4935 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 179):
SJO position as an AV/TA is in decline

Do you also foresee a dismantling of the SAL fortress in favor of a centralized operation out of BOG (and to a lesser extent LIM) in the coming years?

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-25 10:43:19 and read 4924 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 180):
Do you also foresee a dismantling of the SAL fortress in favor of a centralized operation out of BOG (and to a lesser extent LIM) in the coming years?

I can think of routes that will disappear faster from SJO than from SAL.
Destinations like SFO, DFW, IAH (w/AV/TA own metal), MSY (if ever re-starts) can't be supported from BOG but surely from SAL.
I can even guess that some less profitable Central America (or Colombia) - MIA routes will be dropped. Lets face it, for MGA (this is just an example) AV/TA flying only daily and w/E190 to MIA is ridiculous.
And re:LIM, LIM is too far south to be of some importance for AV/TA North America destinations. We may see something like LIM-MIA/MCO to by-pass BOG and SAL, perhaps LIM-HAV/MEX/IAH too (IAH if different schedule than UA), but that's probably all AV/TA LIM non-stops can support.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: juanchito
Posted 2013-02-25 11:03:02 and read 4895 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 175):
Gotta wait till I know the schedule is loaded....don't want to look like a mayan prophecy here

jaja at least tell us what Central American city is it?

Juanchito

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-25 11:20:23 and read 4899 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 181):
And re:LIM, LIM is too far south to be of some importance for AV/TA North America destinations. We may see something like LIM-MIA/MCO to by-pass BOG and SAL, perhaps LIM-HAV/MEX/IAH too (IAH if different schedule than UA), but that's probably all AV/TA LIM non-stops can support.

TA does operate between LIM and HAV, MEX and MIA. I doubt that UA would want TA to operate IAH-LIM.
T0: LIM-HAV 4x weekly A-319
T0: LIM-MEX 4x weekly A-319
T0: LIM-MIA daily A-320
UA: LIM-IAH daily B-763
Interestingly, when TACA Perú received its first A-332, TACA Perú's management mentioned that the a/c could be used to open routes from LIM to MAD, LAX and NYC. Currently the a/c are only deployed on routes to BOG and EZE. T0 has reduced frequencies on routes to MEX and HAV during the past year. However, IMO routes such as LIM-CUN and LIM-PUJ could use more competition. Then again, AV would want to channel that traffic via BOG. AV currently operates BOG-PUJ 4x weekly and does not operate BOG-CUN.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-25 12:10:15 and read 4837 times.

Quoting juanchito (Reply 182):
jaja at least tell us what Central American city is it?

Even though I'm neither Mayan nor a prophet, I'm going to guess either BZE or SAL from LAX. Both are cities served by DL nonstop from ATL, but either not served or not announced to be served from LAX.

(Now watch someone come along and beat me down with BTS statistics.   )

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-25 20:07:39 and read 4770 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 179):
Morning FLL-PTY, afternoon PTY-FLL wasn't attractive for the PTY O/D market.
US FLL-PTY 1900h and PTY-FLL 0600h would have been another story.


NK FLL-PTY 3x weekly is purely operating as "red-eye" for the time being. It doesn't seem to be a big smash.




.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 180):
a dismantling of the SAL fortress in favor of a centralized operation out of BOG


I would take this statement: the usage of two hubs in Central America isn't a smart move for AV in the future. This kind of arrangement makes no sense:

Havana: TA/LR SJO-HAV 3x weekly + TA SAL-HAV 3x weekly.

Furthermore, the progress of both SJO and SAL doesn't match the level of service offered at PTY, in terms of amount of destinations and weekly frequencies.


Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: RCS763AV
Posted 2013-02-26 05:30:34 and read 4722 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 179):
Yes, but PTY is CM hub while SJO position as an AV/TA is in decline.

I would agree here. SJO has a number of things going against it:

1. Very small infrastructure with little expansion plans for the future
2. Much, much more competition that at SAL
3. Sandwiched between BOG and SAL,
4. While a medium sized market, just for comparison MDE and CLO, two secondary AV stations in Colombia, have more daily flights than SJO, CTG is almost up there too. It lacks scope.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 180):
Do you also foresee a dismantling of the SAL fortress in favor of a centralized operation out of BOG (and to a lesser extent LIM) in the coming years?

IMO we could the slashing of SJO or it staying as is for the long term with BOG, LIM and SAL gathering most of the growth.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 181):
I can even guess that some less profitable Central America (or Colombia) - MIA routes will be dropped.

Tell me, which Colombia-MIA route is unprofitable? The Colombia-Sotuh Florida market is way too large to ignore and would be flooded by LCCs and AA if AV left it on it's own and funneled traffic through BOG. It would be a VERY stupid move. In fact, I think we'll see PEI and BGA non-stops to MIA in the future, adding to the current BOG, MDE, CLO, BAQ and CTG flights.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 181):
but that's probably all AV/TA LIM non-stops can support.

JFK and IAD could also be easily supported from LIM. Remember that there are 32 widebodies on order for the Synergy group airlines.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 183):
AV currently operates BOG-PUJ 4x weekly and does not operate BOG-CUN.

AV is flying BOG-PUJ 5x weekly on A320s and is reportedly launching BOG-CUN in July with 4 weekly frequencies. TA flies from LIM to the Dominican Republic via SDQ.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 185):
I would take this statement: the usage of two hubs in Central America isn't a smart move for AV in the future. This kind of arrangement makes no sense:

Agreed, the market is just not large enough to operate two hubs so close to each other (three if you count BOG in, but BOG has different traffic flows and a large market of it's own).

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-26 06:37:31 and read 4703 times.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 186):
Tell me, which Colombia-MIA route is unprofitable? The Colombia-Sotuh Florida market is way too large to ignore and would be flooded by LCCs and AA if AV left it on it's own and funneled traffic through BOG. It would be a VERY stupid move. In fact, I think we'll see PEI and BGA non-stops to MIA in the future, adding to the current BOG, MDE, CLO, BAQ and CTG flights.

True, most big Colombian cities could support some kind of non-stop service to MIA/FLL. SMR, CUC, ADZ maybe even VVC and MTR too.
However I find it strange there're no (at least twice weekly) ADZ-MIA/FLL yet.

Quote:
JFK and IAD could also be easily supported from LIM. Remember that there are 32 widebodies on order for the Synergy group airlines.

Rotations take longer time from LIM.
If AV is aiming for intercontinental expansion, then each intercontinental route may need 2 or even 3 frames to be able to operate daily.
IMHO, if LP/LA is to aggressively grow in LIM, there'll be little room for T0/AV to expand in LIM. Some medium and long-haul routes out of LIM man not be able to support 2 "local" airlines.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-26 13:06:38 and read 4631 times.

Tropic Air's release on CUN-BZE is up on their FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tropic-Air-Belize/340653164591

Start date is march 25th.


Federico Bloch should have bought them out when he had the chance 15 years ago.   

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-26 16:47:06 and read 4594 times.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 186):
the market is just not large enough to operate two hubs so close to each other (three if you count BOG in, but BOG has different traffic flows and a large market of it's own



  




.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 186):
Yes, but PTY is CM hub while SJO position as an AV/TA is in decline.


I would agree here. SJO has a number of things going against it:

1. Very small infrastructure with little expansion plans for the future
2. Much, much more competition that at SAL


I would keep my statement as neutral as possible.
From the technical point of view, both SAL and SJO haven't expanded as faster as PTY in the last five years. Just counting the jet-bridges at PTY, SAL and SJO my point is released.
No other Central American station has more US city-pairs than SJO. However, the supply doesn't match the demand.
TA/LR and AV are now suffering the consequences and I don't visualize how this landscape might change in the forthcoming years.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 188):
Tropic Air's release on CUN-BZE is up


Correct me if I'm wrong: MW flew the CUN-BZE segment with ATR-72 some years ago.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-26 16:58:23 and read 4595 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 181):
I can even guess that some less profitable Central America (or Colombia) - MIA routes will be dropped. Lets face it, for MGA (this is just an example) AV/TA flying only daily and w/E190 to MIA is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous?

The fares in this market are astronomical and TACA and American enjoy an unchallenged duopoly. They successfuly constrain supply to keep fares extremely high.

Nothing is being dropped Central America/Colombia-MIA.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-26 17:30:02 and read 4575 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 190):
Nothing is being dropped Central America/Colombia-MIA.

C'mon MAH you want a challenge again?   I know of at least one C. America-MIA market that AV/TA is actively considering dropping right now.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 189):

Correct me if I'm wrong: MW flew the CUN-BZE segment with ATR-72 some years ago.

Yes, but this time, the plane is right sized. 14 seats. And frequency will be added as demand warrants.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-26 17:31:39 and read 4575 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 188):
Tropic Air's release on CUN-BZE is up


Let me put the full schedule:


BZE 11:30............CUN 13:15........Ex Sa
CUN 14:15............BZE 16:00........Ex Sa
Source: Tropic Air; FB page

Isn't 01:45' too much in a little Cessa Grand Caravan, in terms of comfortability ?




.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 190):
The fares in this market are astronomical and TACA and American enjoy an unchallenged duopoly. They successfully constrain supply to keep fares extremely high


NK acted as a follower offering the same astronomical fares into Central America - South Florida for the meantime.
Back in 2007, the SJO-[MIA/FLL] round-trip sector was possible from $217.

Regards.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-26 17:44:52 and read 4568 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 191):
C'mon MAH you want a challenge again? I know of at least one C. America-MIA market that AV/TA is actively considering dropping right now.

And I would not be entirely shocked if MIATGU is suspended, again.

The rest? Not going. Better chance of DL starting LAXPTY, which itself is close to zero.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-26 17:51:58 and read 4573 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 193):
Better chance of DL starting LAXPTY, which itself is close to zero.

Hmmmmm...just like DL starting SJO-LAX was close to zero. Dl is looking at all of C. America right now from LAX, Time will tell.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 192):
Isn't 01:45' too much in a little Cessa Grand Caravan, in terms of comfortability ?

The 208s are nice..brand new from cessna...air conditioned, G1000, radar..the works. And flight time (I believe) will be closer to 1:20. PM are just being conservative in their timings. I am sure it will reduce the alloted time after a few weeks of operation.

They operate the 208 on SAP-BZE for 1:02 with no issues, so a little more is liveable.

Having said that, the only other choice one has is car (5 hrs) or overnight ADO bus (not including the border transit time)...so give me the plane!

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-26 18:29:20 and read 4565 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 194):
Dl is looking at all of C. America right now from LAX,


From my perspective, the launch of DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly on December 19th doesn't necessarily mean the spread of DL in all Central America out of LAX on a daily basis. I only envisage DL LAX-SAL.
Back in 2008, DL launched JFK-GUA, JFK-PTY, JFK-SJO and JFK-LIR without success. All these operations were ceased less than one year later. Sorry for my repetitive statement.




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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 194):
the only other choice one has is car (5 hrs) or overnight ADO bus (not including the border transit time)...so give me the plane!
PM BZE-CUN: the longest regional route with Cessna Grand Caravans !

BZE-CUN: 224 nm
MGA-RNI: 183 nm
BZE-SAP: 127 nm


Regards.

[Edited 2013-02-26 18:49:14]

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mt99
Posted 2013-02-27 09:52:57 and read 4437 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 196):
drove past SJO earlier this morning.. 8am ramp lineup: 2xAA and 3xCM..

SJO only had 5 gates used at 8AM!!

Sad indeed ...

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-27 09:54:21 and read 4438 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 181):
I can think of routes that will disappear faster from SJO than from SAL
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 185):
two hubs in Central America isn't a smart move for AV in the future
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 186):
Much, much more competition that at SAL

Anecdotal yet illustrative.. drove past SJO earlier this morning.. 8am ramp lineup: 2xAA, 3xCM.. no TA/LR/AV in sight.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 188):
Federico Bloch should have bought them out

The beast is out of the cage now lol.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-28 07:56:54 and read 4326 times.

Economic growth attracts airlines from www.prensa.com in Spanish
Today La Prensa brings us news that "UA has 9 hubs in the U.S. and there's a possibility of new flights between our countries." also males mention of LH Mexico and Central America director what can be understood as "LH is seriously studying PTY".

Which 9 UA hubs are they talking about? SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, ORD, CLE, IAD, EWR and ???.
The only other UA hub in U.S. soil is GUM.
UA already flies EWR/IAH-PTY, CM is flying PTY-LAX/ORD/IAD, so SFO, DEN and CLE aren't connected to PTY yet.
UA SFO-PTY: UA had mentioned earlier it wishes to fly SFO-PTY. We suspect CM B737-700 could make it but CM would really have to think it over before being forced to fly that route on its own metal.
UA DEN-PTY if F9 doesn't jump to fly that route may be possible, but IMHO, may not support a daily frequency (except for Dec-Jan) and as for CM to DEN, CM has other U.S. destination on their wish list way before DEN.
UA CLE-PTY. I think it could have worked when CO was flying here as high-season, weekend-only back-up flight to EWR/IAH-PTY service. Now not sure, but good idea if UA should study B737 CLE-PTY Saturdays and PTY-CLE Sundays this December and January instead of keeping one B737 on CLE tarmac.

Don't think CM would like to see UA fly the same airport pair as it's currently flying, be PTY-LAX/ORD/IAD. Wirh minor schedule adjustments PTY-ORD and PTY-IAD could see increase to extra flights (daily or several days per week) so the excuse CM isn't adding that much UA connecting traffic at ORD and/or IAD is a poor one.

As for UA to Panama "new airports" DAV, ONX or MPRH Rio Hato..
IAH-DAV? Probably would perform better than IAH-FRS but not sure if UA has the aircraft for that thin route.
ONX and MPRH are very close to PTY. If UA flies to those it'll be like cannibalizing traffic from its PTY flights, unless it wants cheap Panama O/D traffic to use those and free seats for pricey connecting traffic thru PTY.

I know UA isn't the kind of airline flying P2P but if CM won't make it to FLL, I wish it'd be UA flying FLL-PTY.

With CM in Star Alliance, it's a question of time when LH will came to PTY.
KL and AV BOG may have some opinions about that, but don't see those been hurt that much by future LH PTY service.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: RCS763AV
Posted 2013-02-28 08:54:57 and read 4305 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 187):
True, most big Colombian cities could support some kind of non-stop service to MIA/FLL. SMR, CUC, ADZ maybe even VVC and MTR too.

I don't know if apart from Santa Marta the others you mention would be able to support MIA service, probably not.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 187):
However I find it strange there're no (at least twice weekly) ADZ-MIA/FLL yet.

There was some interest from NK in the past but it has since dwindled as they're focusing on growing US domestic now.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 187):
Rotations take longer time from LIM.

Of course...

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 187):
If AV is aiming for intercontinental expansion, then each intercontinental route may need 2 or even 3 frames to be able to operate daily.

No one is talking intercontinental expansion, i'm just talking lights to JFK and IAD, which would never take up more than 1 frame to operate.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 187):
MHO, if LP/LA is to aggressively grow in LIM, there'll be little room for T0/AV to expand in LIM. Some medium and long-haul routes out of LIM man not be able to support 2 "local" airlines.

Some, yes. Many can though. And JFK is certainly one of them. As are LAX and MAD.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 198):
also males mention of LH Mexico and Central America director what can be understood as "LH is seriously studying PTY".

Although PTY would be an interesting addition to the LH network, is there a market yet to support so many flights to europe? I never take those press reports saying that an airline is "seriously studying" a destination. Ever since 2004, there were periodical reports of LH "seriously considering returning to BOG", and it only happened in 2010.

If it does materialize congrats to PTY of course.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 197):
Anecdotal yet illustrative.. drove past SJO earlier this morning.. 8am ramp lineup: 2xAA, 3xCM.. no TA/LR/AV in sight.

Illustrative indeed. They seem to be uninterested in engaging in the SJO battle. It would be detrimental to SAL, which seems to be the place they've chosen to grow out of. (the 3x weekly via SAL and 3x weekly via SJO combo that they have on some destinations can't be cost competitive).

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: viaggiare
Posted 2013-02-28 09:48:02 and read 4289 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 198):
if CM won't make it to FLL, I wish it'd be UA flying FLL-PTY

I do believe CM will start FLL this year in anticipation of B6 doing the same.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 199):
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 197):
Anecdotal yet illustrative.. drove past SJO earlier this morning.. 8am ramp lineup: 2xAA, 3xCM.. no TA/LR/AV in sight.

Illustrative indeed. They seem to be uninterested in engaging in the SJO battle. It would be detrimental to SAL, which seems to be the place they've chosen to grow out of.

   Agree 100%.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-28 10:30:23 and read 4271 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 194):
Hmmmmm...just like DL starting SJO-LAX was close to zero. Dl is looking at all of C. America right now from LAX, Time will tell.

No. I said the chance of Delta succeeding is weak and it's a dumb move. I stand by that; Delta will discover such on its own.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-28 11:16:30 and read 4256 times.

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 200):
I do believe CM will start FLL this year in anticipation of B6 doing the same.

As I wrote on these forums before, there are days CM could well get a sizeable number of passengers from Port Everglades cruises alone.
Broward County / Aventura O/D traffic would love CM @ FLL too.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-28 11:49:02 and read 4242 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 201):
No. I said the chance of Delta succeeding is weak and it's a dumb move. I stand by that; Delta will discover such on its own.

And that is why they work in route planning and you don't. They have access to more current and predictive data, than we can possible imagine.

Topic: RE: Central American Aviation Thread. Part 51
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-28 18:36:46 and read 4207 times.

A fresh thread is running:

Central American Aviation Thread. Part 52 (by SJOtoLIR Feb 28 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Mods, please file this extinct edition.


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