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Topic: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-04 11:07:22 and read 8012 times.

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one

direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5

days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the

future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no

previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

7V VIR-PZB MAR 0>0.7 APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.7 AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>0.7

AC ANC-YVR MAY 0.6>0.4
AC BNA-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.9 JUN 1.7>1.8 JUL 1.7>1.9 AUG 1.7>1.8 SEP 1.7>1.9
AC BOS-YHZ MAY 3>2 JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AC BOS-YOW MAY 1.7>1.9 JUN 1.7>1.8 JUL 1.7>1.9 AUG 1.7>1.8 SEP 1.7>1.9
AC BOS-YUL MAY 6>5 JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5
AC BWI-YYZ MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
AC DCA-YUL MAY 3>2 JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AC DCA-YYZ MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
AC DEN-YUL MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.2
AC GRR-YYZ MAY 1.9>2 JUN 1.8>2 JUL 1.9>2 AUG 1.8>2 SEP 1.9>2 OCT 1.8>2.0
AC IAH-YYZ MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
AC LAX-YUL MAY 1.8>1.7
AC LGA-YYZ MAY 13>14 JUL 13>14 AUG 13>14 SEP 13>14 OCT 13>14
AC MCO-YUL APR 2>1.7
AC MDT-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.9 JUN 1.7>1.8 JUL 1.7>1.9 AUG 1.7>1.8 SEP 1.7>1.9
AC MIA-YUL APR 1.0>0.8
AC ORD-YUL MAY 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
AC ORD-YYZ MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7
AC PDX-YYC MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>1.2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 OCT 0.8>0.4
*AC PDX-YYZ MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 0.8>0
AC PHX-YYZ APR 2>1.8
*AC PVD-YYZ MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0 SEP 1.7>0 OCT 1.7>0
*AC PWM-YYZ MAY 1.9>0 JUN 1.8>0 JUL 1.9>0 AUG 1.8>0 SEP 1.9>0 OCT 1.8>0
AC RIC-YYZ MAY 1.7>2 JUN 1.7>2 JUL 1.7>2 AUG 1.7>2 SEP 1.7>2 OCT 1.7>2.0
AC SEA-YVR MAY 7>6 OCT 7>6
AC SEA-YYC MAY 2>1.2 OCT 1.7>0.7
AC SEA-YYZ MAY 2>1.0 OCT 1.8>1.6
AC SFO-YUL JUN 1.0>1.1 JUL 1.0>1.7 AUG 1.0>1.7

AC SFO-YVR MAY 4>3 OCT 4>3

AF IAD-CDG APR 1.7>1.6

AM DEN-MEX MAR 0.6>0.8 APR 0.4>0.6
Strange. My understanding is that this route is paid for by a housing developer in Loreto. Why would AM enter it too?
*AM LAX-LTO APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3
AM MCO-MEX MAR 1.5>1.6 APR 1.4>1.5

BB SJU-EIS MAR 3>0.9
BB SJU-STX MAR 2>1.1
BB STT-SJU MAR 3>1.7

BW FLL-MBJ MAR 1.3>1.0

DE FLL-FRA JUL 0.6>0.4 AUG 0.5>0.4

*DL JFK-FCO JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.6>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0
DL JFK-SDQ JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
DL JFK-SJU JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL JFK-STI JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
DL LAX-OAK JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
DL LAX-PHX JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
DL LAX-SFO JUN 11>12 JUL 11>12 AUG 11>12 SEP 11>12 OCT 11>12
*DL LAX-SJC JUN 0>3 JUL 0>4 AUG 0>4 SEP 0>4 OCT 0>4
DL LAX-SMF JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
DL MEM-DTW APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
DL SLC-BOS MAY 1.0>2.0 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0

FJ LAX-NAN SEP 0.6>0.9 OCT 0.6>0.9

*FL ATL-AUS JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
FL ATL-SAT JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
FL HOU-SAT JUN 0.4>0.0

G4 AZA-HNL MAY 0.5>0.3
G4 SCK-HNL MAY 0.1>0

HA HNL-ITO MAR 15>14 APR 16>15
HA HNL-KOA APR 18>19
HA HNL-LIH MAR 17>16 APR 17>16
HA HNL-OGG MAR 27>26 APR 27>26
HA ITO-HNL MAR 15>14 APR 16>15
HA KOA-HNL APR 18>19
HA KOA-OGG APR 2>3
HA LIH-HNL MAR 17>16 APR 17>16
HA OGG-HNL MAR 27>26 APR 27>26
HA OGG-KOA APR 2>3

*HU ORD-PEK SEP 0>0.5 OCT 0>0.6

LA MIA-PUJ APR 0.3>0.1 MAY 0.3>0.1 JUN 0.3>0.2 AUG 0.3>0.2 SEP 0.3>0.1

LW HNL-MKK MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
*LW LUP-MKK MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0
LW OGG-MKK MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

*NK BWI-LAS MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
*NK IAH-LAX MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
*NK LAS-PHL MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

Is this dead already? or just recoded?
P1 DEN-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 IAH-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 LAX-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 OAK-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 SAT-MZT MAR 0.1>0

*SN IAD-BRU JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.7 AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>0.7

UA CLE-RIC JUN 3>4
UA DEN-MEX JUL 0.3>0.5 AUG 0.3>0.4
UA DEN-SJD JUN 0.5>0.6 JUL 0.4>0.5
UA DEN-YQR JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.2>2
UA EWR-BDL MAY 4>3
UA EWR-TLV SEP 2>1.9
UA EWR-YYZ MAY 9>8
UA GUM-HKG APR 0.3>0.6 MAY 0.3>0.6 JUN 0.3>0.6 JUL 0.3>0.6 AUG 0.3>0.6 SEP 0.3>0.6 OCT 0.3>0.5
UA IAH-BON JUL 0.1>0.3
UA IAH-MEX MAY 9>8
UA IAH-YEG SEP 1.7>1.5 OCT 1.7>1.6
UA IAH-YVR MAY 2>1.9
UA ORD-DCA SEP 13>14
UA ORD-JAC SEP 0>0.8
UA ORD-OGG SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0
UA SFO-GDL JUL 0.3>1.3 AUG 0.7>1.1
UA SFO-PVR AUG 0.8>0.6 OCT 0.5>0.4

US CLT-SMF MAY 0.9>0.6

UX JFK-MAD APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4

VS ORD-LHR MAY 1.0>0.8 OCT 0.8>0.5

VV JFK-KBP MAR 0.4>0

WG CVG-PUJ MAY 0>0.1

WP HNL-JHM MAR 5>3 APR 5>3 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>3 JUL 5>3 AUG 5>3 SEP 5>3 OCT 5>3
WP HNL-MKK MAR 5>6 APR 5>6 MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6 SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6
WP JHM-HNL MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
WP MKK-JHM MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

Y4 MCO-MEX APR 0.3>0.4 MAY 0.3>0.4 JUN 0.3>0.5 JUL 0.3>0.4 AUG 0.3>0.5 SEP 0.3>0.4 OCT 0.3>0.4
Y4 SAN-MEX MAR 0.7>0.5 APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.8 OCT 1.0>0.9
Y4 SMF-GDL MAR 0.3>0.4 APR 0.3>0.1 MAY 0.3>0.2 JUN 0.3>0.1 JUL 0.3>0.1 AUG 0.3>0.2 SEP 0.3>0.1 OCT 0.3>0.1

YV HNL-ITO APR 3>4
YV ITO-HNL APR 3>4

B6 Comparison versus 2012 Same months, schedule was extended
B6 ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 BOS-BDA SEP 1.0>0.9
B6 BOS-BUF JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6 SEP 4>5
B6 BOS-BWI JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6 SEP 5>6
B6 BOS-CHS JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.1
B6 BOS-EWR JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>6
B6 BOS-IAD JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4
B6 BOS-LAS JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
B6 BOS-MSY SEP 1.0>0.7
B6 BOS-PDX SEP 1.0>0.6
B6 BOS-PHL JUL 0>5 AUG 0>5 SEP 0>5
B6 BOS-PIT JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4
B6 BOS-RDU SEP 4>5
B6 BOS-RIC JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 1.9>3
B6 BOS-RSW SEP 1.9>3
B6 BOS-SDQ SEP 1.2>0.8
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
B6 BOS-SJC SEP 0.9>0.6
B6 BOS-SRQ JUL 0.1>1.0 AUG 0.1>1.0 SEP 0.2>1.0
B6 DCA-SJU JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0.3>1.0
B6 FLL-BOS JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
B6 FLL-KIN SEP 2>1.6
B6 FLL-LAX JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>1.8
B6 FLL-MDE JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 FLL-PVD JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 FLL-RIC SEP 1.0>0.6
B6 FLL-SDQ JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2
B6 FLL-SJO JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 FLL-SJU SEP 5>6
B6 HPN-NAS JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7
B6 JFK-ABQ JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 JFK-AUS SEP 3>2
B6 JFK-AZS JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3
B6 JFK-BQN SEP 1.3>1.1
B6 JFK-BUR JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 1.9>1.0
B6 JFK-CHS JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2
B6 JFK-CLT SEP 3>2
B6 JFK-CTG JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.4 SEP 0>0.4
B6 JFK-CUN JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
B6 JFK-GCM JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.4
B6 JFK-KIN SEP 1.3>1.1
B6 JFK-LIR SEP 0.6>0.2
B6 JFK-MBJ SEP 1.3>1.1
B6 JFK-NAS SEP 1.9>1.8
B6 JFK-ORD JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2
B6 JFK-PIT JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 1.8>0
B6 JFK-PLS SEP 1.1>0.8
B6 JFK-PUJ SEP 1.3>1.5
B6 JFK-ROC JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
B6 JFK-SXM JUL 1.4>1.1 AUG 1.4>1.2
B6 JFK-UVF SEP 0.8>0.6
B6 LGB-AUS JUL 1.0>2
B6 LGB-SLC JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2
B6 LGB-SMF JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2
B6 MCO-BQN AUG 1.6>1.1
B6 MCO-BQN AUG 1.7>1.2
B6 MCO-BUF JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 1.4>1.0
B6 MCO-PSE AUG 1.6>1.1
B6 MCO-PVD JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2
B6 MCO-RIC SEP 1.0>0.6
B6 MCO-SJU SEP 5>6
B6 MCO-SYR JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0
B6 SEA-ANC JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 SJU-PUJ JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 SJU-SDQ JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4
B6 SJU-STI JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0
B6 SJU-TPA JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
B6 TPA-SJU JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 1.8>1.9

FL comparison vs. 2012, does not include WN. Their new schedule is not loaded.
FL ATL-AUA JUL 0.4>0.6 AUG 0.8>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.5
FL ATL-AUS JUL 0>1.0
FL ATL-BKG JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0
FL ATL-BOS SEP 6>5
FL ATL-CLT JUL 4>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 4>0
FL ATL-CUN JUL 3>2
FL ATL-DEN JUL 4>3
FL ATL-FLL SEP 8>7
FL ATL-FNT JUL 4>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 3>0
FL ATL-HOU JUL 7>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5
FL ATL-ICT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0
FL ATL-LAX JUL 4>3
FL ATL-LGA JUL 9>6 AUG 9>6 SEP 9>6
FL ATL-MBJ SEP 0.9>0.8
FL ATL-MSY JUL 5>4
FL ATL-NAS SEP 1.1>0.6
FL ATL-PHL AUG 6>4 SEP 6>4
FL ATL-PIT SEP 5>3
FL ATL-PUJ SEP 1.3>1.1
FL ATL-RDU JUL 4>3
FL ATL-Posted 2013-02-04 11:08:17 and read 8030 times.

FL ATL-RIC SEP 4>3
FL ATL-ROC JUL 2>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0
FL ATL-SFO JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2.0
FL ATL-SJU AUG 3>1.5 SEP 1.5>1.1
FL ATL-TPA SEP 8>7
FL BOS-CAK SEP 1.0>1.7
FL BUF-FLL JUL 0>1.0
FL BUF-TPA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
FL BWI-ATL AUG 6>5
FL BWI-AUA JUL 0.3>0.7 AUG 0.3>0.7 SEP 0.3>0.5
FL BWI-AUS AUG 0>0.7
FL BWI-BDA SEP 1.0>0.1
FL BWI-BOS AUG 6>5 SEP 6>4
FL BWI-CLT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0
FL BWI-CUN JUL 1.1>2 AUG 1.1>2 SEP 1.2>1.4
FL BWI-FLL JUL 3>8 AUG 3>7 SEP 3>6
FL BWI-GRR JUL 3>2 AUG 3>0.6 SEP 3>0
FL BWI-IND AUG 0>0.7
FL BWI-MBJ JUL 1.3>2 AUG 1.4>1.6 SEP 1.5>1.3
FL BWI-MEM AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.9
FL BWI-MSY JUL 1.0>0
FL BWI-PUJ JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>0.6
FL BWI-PWM JUL 3>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 4>0
FL BWI-ROC JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0
FL BWI-RSW AUG 0.4>1.1 SEP 0.0>0.9
FL BWI-SJU JUL 2>0 AUG 1.9>0 SEP 1.5>0
FL BWI-TPA JUL 3>5
FL CAK-TPA SEP 1.3>0.9
FL CMH-RSW AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0
FL CMH-TPA JUL 0>1.0
FL DAY-TPA JUL 0.1>1.1
FL DEN-SJD JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3
FL FLL-MDW JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.6 SEP 0>1.0
FL FLL-PHL JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
FL FLL-PIT AUG 1.8>1.3 SEP 1.3>0.1
FL FLL-RDU JUL 0>1.0
FL FLL-SJU SEP 1.8>0.9
FL HOU-TPA JUL 0>1.0
FL IND-TPA AUG 1.9>1.3 SEP 1.8>0.9
FL MCO-ATL JUL 10>9 AUG 10>9 SEP 10>9
FL MCO-AUS AUG 0>0.7
FL MCO-BOS JUL 0>1.9
FL MCO-BUF JUL 1.0>2 SEP 2>1.0
FL MCO-BWI JUL 4>7 SEP 6>4
FL MCO-CMH JUL 1.0>3 SEP 2.0>0.9
FL MCO-FNT JUL 1.0>0
FL MCO-HOU JUL 0>1.0
FL MCO-MBJ SEP 0.8>0.5
FL MCO-MCI JUL 0>2 AUG 0>1.0
FL MCO-MDW JUL 3>4
FL MCO-MEM AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.9
FL MCO-MSP AUG 0.5>0.3
FL MCO-MSY JUL 0>1.0
FL MCO-PHL JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
FL MCO-PIT JUL 2>4 SEP 3>1.8
FL MCO-RDU JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>1.8
FL MCO-ROC JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.3>0 SEP 1.0>0
FL MCO-SJU JUL 5>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 3>0
FL MCO-STL JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>1.7
FL MDW-MBJ JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.4
FL MDW-MEM AUG 0>1.4 SEP 0>1.8
FL MDW-PUJ JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.4
FL MDW-TPA JUL 0>1.0
FL MKE-BOS JUL 4>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 4>0
FL MKE-FLL AUG 1.0>0.3 SEP 1.0>0
FL MKE-LGA JUL 5>0 AUG 4>0 SEP 3>0
FL MKE-MCO JUL 4>3
FL MKE-TPA SEP 1.0>0.1
FL PBI-PHL JUL 0>1.0
FL PHL-RSW JUL 0>1.0
FL PHL-TPA JUL 0>1.1
FL PIT-RSW AUG 1.5>1.1
FL PIT-TPA JUL 0>1.9 AUG 0>1.8 SEP 0>1.0
FL RDU-TPA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>0.9
FL ROC-TPA JUL 1.0>0
FL SAT-CUN SEP 0.5>0.4
FL SJU-TPA JUL 2>0 AUG 1.4>0 SEP 1.0>0
FL SNA-SJD JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>1.3
FL TPA-SJU JUL 2>0 AUG 1.4>0 SEP 1.0>0

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2013-02-04 11:26:55 and read 7830 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-BOS MAY 1.0>2.0 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

I feel like this might be a little defenseive as well. They dont want to give jet blue too good an opportunity to move in on the market. US added two transcons and united added one transcon to SLC somewhat recently and seem to be pretty happy so far with the results. They dont want to make it too tempting for jetblue maybe.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2013-02-04 11:27:22 and read 7828 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

An ORD route bites the dust?

[Edited 2013-02-04 11:42:06]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2013-02-04 11:38:28 and read 7739 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
FL BWI-FLL JUL 3>8 AUG 3>7 SEP 3>6

I flew the route for the first time Saturday. BWI Concourse B was a complete madhouse -- there were back-to-back FLL flights all day long. FL/WN apparently can fill as many sunbird seats as the reservation system will allow them to sell.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-04 11:48:31 and read 7634 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
I feel like this might be a little defenseive as well. They dont want to give jet blue too good an opportunity to move in on the market.

Can't disagree.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-04 12:15:13 and read 7478 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC PDX-YYC MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>1.2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 OCT 0.8>0.4
*AC PDX-YYZ MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 0.8>0
AC SEA-YYC MAY 2>1.2 OCT 1.7>0.7

Interesting adjustments to the AC service in the PNW. PDX gains YYC frequency while SEA loses some but PDX loses YYZ this summer (and for good?)

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC SEA-YVR MAY 7>6 OCT 7>6
AC SFO-YVR MAY 4>3 OCT 4>3

In trying to figure out why SAN-YVR has been dropped by AC (announced and mentioned in a previous OAG-thread), seeing also SEA and SFO service to YVR reduced -- albeit in May and Oct -- might indicate there are some issues of a broader scope.

bb

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: FATFlyer
Posted 2013-02-04 12:22:22 and read 7410 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
G4 SCK-HNL MAY 0.1>0

It appears to be an April 12 to June 2 suspension. They must have had a large booking drop off for the weeks after Spring Break. Allegiant has said several times now that the low periods for Hawaii routes are turning out to be very low bookings and they will manage the low periods using temporary suspensions.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: DariusBieber
Posted 2013-02-04 12:29:59 and read 7369 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Is this dead already? or just recoded?
P1 DEN-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 IAH-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 LAX-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 OAK-MZT MAR 0.3>0
P1 SAT-MZT MAR 0.1>0

Yes it's dead. People who have booked these flights have been issued refunds.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-04 14:11:49 and read 6957 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Can't disagree.

IMHO part of the route planning departments day is not only to figure out where to tweak and grow for their airline, but also to analyze what others are doing and see if there are and defensive moves needed.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-04 14:38:03 and read 6809 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
s this dead already? or just recoded?

See..
CalJet End Service After Only 3-weeks..... (by LAXintl Jan 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)

=

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-02-04 14:42:03 and read 6779 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
I feel like this might be a little defenseive as well. They dont want to give jet blue too good an opportunity to move in on the market. US added two transcons and united added one transcon to SLC somewhat recently and seem to be pretty happy so far with the results. They dont want to make it too tempting for jetblue maybe.

BOS-SLC:
Currently flown 1x/day with a 738 or 320, depending on the day. 2/16 is operates with a 757 for Presidents Weekend.
The 2nd daily flight starts on 3/1, with 1x 738 and 1x 320. On Saturdays the later flight operates with a 757 through ski season. (through 4/7)
Flight operates 1x day in April with a 738
Second daily flight resumes May 1 with an A320.

So this spring and summer DL will operate 1-738 & 1-A320 instead of 1-757 on the route.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-02-04 15:55:25 and read 6563 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SRQ JUL 0.1>1.0 AUG 0.1>1.0 SEP 0.2>1.0

Interesting to see daily service year-round now. I guess its a good use of the E-190.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-04 17:51:54 and read 6241 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1

Bye Bye COS for F9.... Mariner and F9animal, can you guys shine more light on this?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0

:D Hoping this works out well for CVG

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WG CVG-PUJ MAY 0>0.1

So what's going on with this? Is this another Apple Vacations addition?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-04 17:55:04 and read 6220 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1

Bye Bye COS for F9.... Mariner and F9animal, can you guys shine more light on this?

According to Frontier.com it shows the service ending 07Apr. COS looks to be winding down in late February - early March for DEN/LAX/MCO.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: cokepopper
Posted 2013-02-04 18:20:05 and read 6078 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-FCO JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.6>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0

Delta decided to give the second flight to AZ....

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-04 18:41:08 and read 6001 times.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 8):
Yes it's dead. People who have booked these flights have been issued refunds.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
CalJet End Service After Only 3-weeks..... (by LAXintl Jan 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)

I thought that was the airline flying from the other SAN airport.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
IMHO part of the route planning departments day is not only to figure out where to tweak and grow for their airline, but also to analyze what others are doing and see if there are and defensive moves needed.

No opinion. That's a fact.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Bye Bye COS for F9.... Mariner and F9animal, can you guys shine more light on this?

Yeah, failed focus city #6.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
:D Hoping this works out well for CVG

Ask PIE and HOU.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
So what's going on with this? Is this another Apple Vacations addition?

Is it Vacation Express?

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 15):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-FCO JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.6>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0

Delta decided to give the second flight to AZ....

Sort of. NET/NET they just dropped EWR-FCO.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-04 18:43:28 and read 5990 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Mariner and F9animal, can you guys shine more light on this?

No more than I have already, in other threads.

The good folk at COS were delighted to have the service - but wouldn't pay any sort of a premium over DEN service.

So it became redundant and Frontier can use the aircraft more profitably elsewhere.

mariner

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-04 18:43:41 and read 5990 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
:D Hoping this works out well for CVG

Ask PIE and HOU.

To be fair, CVG is a different city than DAY. Ask CLE. PIE, LGB, HOU, AZA (all of which have failed, or underperformed) were alternate airports serving the same city.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-04 18:47:02 and read 5977 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Ask PIE and HOU.

The DEN flights stayed with TPA. Frontier never flew DEN-PIE.   

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-04 18:47:55]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-02-04 19:21:48 and read 5811 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-SDQ JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
DL JFK-SJU JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL JFK-STI JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

Too low yielding for AA...but just fine for Delta!

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-02-04 19:21:56 and read 5802 times.

You sure about AC and PDX-YYZ?

I booked it a few weeks ago for a trip coming up May 2-4.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-04 19:50:28 and read 5591 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
Too low yielding for AA...but just fine for Delta!

Yeah I don't get that. There's no way DL is doing better than AA; DL's fares have traditionally been the worst in the NYC area, while AA's were generally the highest. I wonder if they're just trying to wedge their way into the market by brute force.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-04 20:02:11 and read 5522 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Yeah, failed focus city #6.

I really do love your humor......... got a good chuckle out of this.

And now that F9 is showing positive $$$$$ overall, the sarcasm is even better.......


 

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-04 20:31:11 and read 5355 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Is it Vacation Express?

Checked and confirmed it is indeed Vacation Express.... How they turn a profit on these routes, I'll never know.

Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Ask PIE and HOU.

PIE....huh? HOU- WN.

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
The good folk at COS were delighted to have the service - but wouldn't pay any sort of a premium over DEN service.

-_- good ol money making decent service suck so much, eh?

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 18):
To be fair, CVG is a different city than DAY. Ask CLE. PIE, LGB, HOU, AZA (all of which have failed, or underperformed) were alternate airports serving the same city.

Exactly. Well I can vouch for AZA- People just wanted to use Sky Harbor.

CVG is just very thirsty for LCC service.

if F9 tried at SCF (KSDL) it could be interesting   

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-04 20:45:14 and read 5423 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
-_- good ol money making decent service suck so much, eh?

All the airline - any airline - can do is offer the service.

If people don't want it, or would rather fly other airlines, or in this case, connect through DEN to save a buck - there really isn't much the airline can do.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-04 21:07:49]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2013-02-04 21:11:20 and read 5296 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):

No they did not, they served MKE-PIE.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):

More then likely. I guess they are in it for the long haul since they have been so focused on "winning in NYC".

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-04 21:17:00 and read 5343 times.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 26):
No they did not, they served MKE-PIE.

And that's why F9 failed at PIE

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyPIJets
Posted 2013-02-05 05:14:20 and read 4713 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL ATL-RDU JUL 4>3

Hmm, I think we knew this was going to happen, still confuses me, ATL has got to be RDU #1 O and D destination, maybe not.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
FL FLL-RDU JUL 0>1.0
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
FL MCO-RDU JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>1.8
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
FL RDU-TPA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>0.9

Is WN switching RDU - Florida service to FL? Maybe discussed before, sorry if I missed it. I always wondered why FL didn't serve RDU more in the first place (not that this is more service I assume WN will pull down similar). Is this to make use of 717s while they still have them, or will this be 737 service? Or is it something else.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-05 06:02:02 and read 4566 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
The good folk at COS were delighted to have the service - but wouldn't pay any sort of a premium over DEN service.

Which is why F9 was dumb to do it. As I said at the time, people are quite comfortable driving up I-25.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 27):
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 26):
No they did not, they served MKE-PIE.

And that's why F9 failed at PIE
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Ask PIE and HOU.

PIE....huh? HOU- WN.
Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Ask PIE and HOU.

The DEN flights stayed with TPA. Frontier never flew DEN-PIE.   
mariner

Mariner: I understand your desire to absent-mindedly correct, but where exactly did I say they flew DEN-PIE? They clearly moved MKE-TPA to MKE-PIE and it failed. The point being that when they move airports willy-nilly it rarely works out.

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
And now that F9 is showing positive $$$$$ overall, the sarcasm is even better.......

I really hope TTN works, but it will have to work without F9 establishing their brand because they are very bad at that outside DEN. If people fly it just because any airline is operating from TTN because it is such a convenient spot then it will work, otherwise it won't. My personal opinion is that the Florida stuff has a good chance, but I think the other stuff is an extreme long shot...although I'd love if they proved me wrong.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
Quoting enilria (Reply 16):
Is it Vacation Express?

Checked and confirmed it is indeed Vacation Express.... How they turn a profit on these routes, I'll never know.

+1 for me. People forget about Vacation Express among the Funjets and Apples of the world...

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2013-02-05 07:03:48 and read 4344 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
US added two transcons and united added one transcon to SLC somewhat recently and seem to be pretty happy so far with the results.

t
What have US and UA said that shows them being happy with the results?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-05 07:13:16 and read 4289 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-FCO JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.6>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0

As coke said, flight going to AZ. No capacity add with EWR getting cut.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
I wonder if they're just trying to wedge their way into the market by brute force.

pretty much.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: blr380
Posted 2013-02-05 07:41:55 and read 4189 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AC PVD-YYZ MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0 SEP 1.7>0 OCT 1.7>0
*AC PWM-YYZ MAY 1.9>0 JUN 1.8>0 JUL 1.9>0 AUG 1.8>0 SEP 1.9>0 OCT 1.8>0

Sad to see the AC Beechcrafts leave these New England cities. PVD will be left with no international service and PWM has to keep contended with Twin-Cities (to Yarmouth) for the lone international service. Really surprised to see AC leave PWM - all flights were full (they ran almost three daily in summers). I hope this is only a temporary suspension until they find a right aircraft for the route.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: rwsea
Posted 2013-02-05 07:49:59 and read 4164 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
Too low yielding for AA...but just fine for Delta!
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
Yeah I don't get that. There's no way DL is doing better than AA; DL's fares have traditionally been the worst in the NYC area, while AA's were generally the highest. I wonder if they're just trying to wedge their way into the market by brute force.

As shown in some of the recent threads regarding international profitability, DL has a huge cost advantage over AA on a CASM basis. Even if AA gets higher fares (as the statistics show), it doesn't matter because of their cost structure.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-05 08:04:01 and read 4128 times.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 33):
Even if AA gets higher fares (as the statistics show), it doesn't matter because of their cost structure.

Right, but DL's average fares are lower than B6 in these markets, and DL's CASM isn't anywhere near B6. Plus AA's CASM should end up lower than DL post bankruptcy, and if these were worth keeping (ie cornerstone, Latin America) they would have since AA has the highest average fares in the JFK market.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-05 08:17:00 and read 4040 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 31):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-FCO JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.6>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0

As coke said, flight going to AZ. No capacity add with EWR getting cut.

It's a capacity cut for NYC. If DL had not cancelled this flight it would be even, but with this reduction NYC is now down 1 RT to FCO on ST.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-02-05 08:36:03 and read 3943 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-PHX JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5

UA LAX-PHX JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3

A couple weeks ago UA reduced service from 4 to 3 daily on LAX-PHX. Looks like DL was more than willing to pick it up.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-05 09:20:16 and read 3734 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Which is why F9 was dumb to do it. As I said at the time, people are quite comfortable driving up I-25.

There was a little more to it than that. They knew - we all knew - that the E190's were going and I can't imagine the A319 flying DEN-COS with any decent numbers - a waste of an aircraft.

If it had worked, it would have been a way to keep COS in the system. I think that was surely worth the try. But - use it or lose it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Mariner: I understand your desire to absent-mindedly correct, but where exactly did I say they flew DEN-PIE? They clearly moved MKE-TPA to MKE-PIE and it failed. The point being that when they move airports willy-nilly it rarely works out.

The difference is that they never closed TPA.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-05 09:25:36]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-02-05 09:23:02 and read 3715 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
The good folk at COS were delighted to have the service - but wouldn't pay any sort of a premium over DEN service.

Which is why F9 was dumb to do it. As I said at the time, people are quite comfortable driving up I-25.

Perhaps, but it also didn't help that they flew it from MKE (4x weekly on an ERJ at that!). I wouldn't necessarily lump CVG as being a patently dumb decision by F9, as someone else said, DEN-CVG at least passes the smell test.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: bkflyguy
Posted 2013-02-05 09:23:02 and read 3726 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
Yeah I don't get that. There's no way DL is doing better than AA; DL's fares have traditionally been the worst in the NYC area, while AA's were generally the highest. I wonder if they're just trying to wedge their way into the market by brute force.

Just doing a search for a RT from JFK to SJU from 2/23 to 3/2, DL is $267, B6 is $281, AA is $274. So DL is $14 cheaper than B6. But, DL charges for a checked bag, which more than makes up for the difference with B6.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-05 09:34:09 and read 3669 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Right, but DL's average fares are lower than B6 in these markets, and DL's CASM isn't anywhere near B6. Plus AA's CASM should end up lower than DL post bankruptcy, and if these were worth keeping (ie cornerstone, Latin America) they would have since AA has the highest average fares in the JFK market.

There's more to the story with the JFKSTI/SDQ cancellations, though. They used 763s that would otherwise be parked between European flights. Not exactly the most reliable 763 fleet these days, and AA decided they need those spare planes at JFK to smoothen out European ops.

There is no doubt AA wasn't make money on these routes, but I would not be shocked if they return post-BK.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: flyguy1
Posted 2013-02-05 10:11:49 and read 3503 times.

There's more to the story with the JFKSTI/SDQ cancellations, though. They used 763s that would otherwise be parked between European flights. Not exactly the most reliable 763 fleet these days, and AA decided they need those spare planes at JFK to smoothen out European ops.

Sad that a carrier like AA would have to do this. Seems more like the move of a third world carrier.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-05 10:31:17 and read 3400 times.

Quoting bkflyguy (Reply 39):

Just doing a search for a RT from JFK to SJU from 2/23 to 3/2, DL is $267, B6 is $281, AA is $274. So DL is $14 cheaper than B6. But, DL charges for a checked bag, which more than makes up for the difference with B6.

I'm talking about the average fare for the last twelve months

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 40):
They used 763s that would otherwise be parked between European flights. Not exactly the most reliable 763 fleet these days, and AA decided they need those spare planes at JFK to smoothen out European ops.

I think the routes want to be on a 738 anyway; perhaps they'll return with some of the new narrowbodies AA has on order.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-05 10:35:02 and read 3391 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Mariner: I understand your desire to absent-mindedly correct, but where exactly did I say they flew DEN-PIE? They clearly moved MKE-TPA to MKE-PIE and it failed. The point being that when they move airports willy-nilly it rarely works out.

The difference is that they never closed TPA.

They closed MKE-TPA and substituted MKE-PIE and it failed. It's the same thing. They have a poor track record with airport swaps. Do you have any evidence where they have swapped and grown service as a result of the swap?

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
There was a little more to it than that. They knew - we all knew - that the E190's were going and I can't imagine the A319 flying DEN-COS with any decent numbers - a waste of an aircraft.

If it had worked, it would have been a way to keep COS in the system. I think that was surely worth the try. But - use it or lose it.

DEN-COS was always stupid. The point is that we heard for years on here how it was a natural extension of their brand to fly COS non-stop to various places (other than DEN) and I said for years that it made no sense when they had a hub up I-25 that people could drive to. Oddly, it makes more sense now that their position in DEN has ebbed so much, but it has still failed. F9 has never successfully made their brand viable outside DEN. TTN is the next attempt, but as the investment companies say "past history is not an indication of future returns"...but it is a hint.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 38):
Perhaps, but it also didn't help that they flew it from MKE (4x weekly on an ERJ at that!). I wouldn't necessarily lump CVG as being a patently dumb decision by F9, as someone else said, DEN-CVG at least passes the smell test.

CVG is not dumb, but switching all these airports cost money and orphans hard won customers. If they are just going to do 4/week to DEN (apparently essentially a charter setup ferry) and a few Apple quasi-charters then it is a bad move. If they plan to try to move into some of the Delta void then perhaps it makes more sense. All their other airport switches have soured over time.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-05 10:37:56 and read 3380 times.

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 41):
Sad that a carrier like AA would have to do this. Seems more like the move of a third world carrier.

Um, no. All major airlines keep slack capacity at their hubs. Every single one. AA wasn't keeping sufficient slack capacity at JFK - it was sending it to the DR, hurting JFK ops.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-05 10:55:36 and read 3279 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 43):
They closed MKE-TPA and substituted MKE-PIE and it failed. It's the same thing. They have a poor track record with airport swaps. Do you have any evidence where they have swapped and grown service as a result of the swap?

Nope. I'm just using your principle - that Frontier can't survive at DEN against Southwest. Any attempt to survive in spite of Southwest is going to require some experimentation.

Quoting enilria (Reply 43):
DEN-COS was always stupid.

Since DEN-COS is now gone, or going, I'm not sue why you're complaining. It seems to have reached the point where Frontier and Stupid are synonymous in your mind.

Quoting enilria (Reply 43):
CVG is not dumb, but switching all these airports cost money and orphans hard won customers.

Those "hard won" customers at DAY are being poached by Southwest anyway. As I assume will happen at GRR. Although I remember the sneers when Frontier started DEN-GRR.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-05 11:08:28]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2013-02-05 11:24:12 and read 3171 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 43):

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 38):
Perhaps, but it also didn't help that they flew it from MKE (4x weekly on an ERJ at that!). I wouldn't necessarily lump CVG as being a patently dumb decision by F9, as someone else said, DEN-CVG at least passes the smell test.

CVG is not dumb, but switching all these airports cost money and orphans hard won customers.

True, but one has to wonder how many of F9's pax in DAY were driving from the Cincinnati area (or other areas in the Tri-State such as LEX and IND) in which case they're enhancing service to these customers.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: flyguy1
Posted 2013-02-05 12:12:05 and read 3087 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):

I hear you, but why has this been an issue only recently?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-05 12:18:55 and read 3091 times.

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 47):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):


I hear you, but why has this been an issue only recently?

For one thing, AA is flying a lot more redeyes to South America these days; planes that used to be in Miami and New York, are now in Montevideo, Belo Horizonte, etc.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-02-05 13:17:04 and read 2991 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
The good folk at COS were delighted to have the service - but wouldn't pay any sort of a premium over DEN service.

Convenience of location is only one factor which would have driven the purchasing decision. The sub-daily schedule was a huge burden on the service as well. They were NEVER going to get a fare premium for 4x weekly service with flights every few hours (or more frequently) available from DEN. It works for G4 because they're not looking for a fare premium on their routes. F9 won't get a fare premium at TTN unless they vastly improve the schedules.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
DL SLC-BOS MAY 1.0>2.0 JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

I feel like this might be a little defenseive as well.

I disagree. DL ran SLC-BOS double-daily for many years. IMO this is a return to normal historical capacity for DL in the market. Granted, MSP has helped carry some of the traffic which had flowed over SLC in the past, but SLC offers a number of markets which aren't available over MSP. With DL building up LAX as a hub, I wonder if they'll make another try at BOS-LAX.

Quoting blr380 (Reply 32):
Sad to see the AC Beechcrafts leave these New England cities.

Eh, maybe. They were pretty wretched to actually fly on.

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 28):
FL ATL-RDU JUL 4>3

Hmm, I think we knew this was going to happen, still confuses me, ATL has got to be RDU #1 O and D destination, maybe not.

Not by a long shot. RDU-NYC/CHI/BOS are all much larger than RDU-ATL, which is also a bit smaller than RDU-PHL and RDU-WAS.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-05 13:32:47 and read 2960 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 49):
F9 won't get a fare premium at TTN unless they vastly improve the schedules.

You may be right, I can't predict the future.

And - unlike so many a.netters apparently - I am not an expert in all aspects of airline management. I don't even work for an airline, I'm an amateur, I do this for fun, and watch (and often enjoy) the results. I really appreciate what the new CEO is doing and I have learnt a huge amount of stuff that is - to me - fascinating.

And what I'm hearing from management, the results - and from Wall Street - is at variance with most things posted here and are at variance with the price of my (few ) RJET shares. Consequently, I find the constant bashing of the airline in these threads a bit tedious.

But hey - I don't want to spoil anyone else's idea of fun.

I don't assume they're expecting TTN to be profitable in the near future, but it sure is fun to watch - a couple of the MSY flights have among the highest one way fares in the system (and a couple of the CLE-DEN fares are up there, too).

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-05 13:50:48]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-06 06:34:07 and read 2621 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 45):
Nope. I'm just using your principle - that Frontier can't survive at DEN against Southwest. Any attempt to survive in spite of Southwest is going to require some experimentation.

Perhaps that is true, but you always say they are profitable and doing fine in Denver. If that were really true, then why all the constant changes?

Quoting mariner (Reply 45):
Those "hard won" customers at DAY are being poached by Southwest anyway. As I assume will happen at GRR. Although I remember the sneers when Frontier started DEN-GRR.

WN will poach them no matter where they run to. Now they have DL to compete with instead of WN. That's only marginally better...or worse if they react.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46):
True, but one has to wonder how many of F9's pax in DAY were driving from the Cincinnati area (or other areas in the Tri-State such as LEX and IND) in which case they're enhancing service to these customers.

But nobody knows they moved except us. I don't think their marketing in the Ohio area adds up to much.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 49):
Convenience of location is only one factor which would have driven the purchasing decision. The sub-daily schedule was a huge burden on the service as well. They were NEVER going to get a fare premium for 4x weekly service with flights every few hours (or more frequently) available from DEN.

Exactly right. 4/week service or less will never get a fare premium of any sort.

Quoting mariner (Reply 50):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 49):
F9 won't get a fare premium at TTN unless they vastly improve the schedules.

You may be right, I can't predict the future.

TTN can't be about getting a fare premium. It has to be about getting ancillary revenue plus an "attractor" fare. The ancillary revenue part is where they need a lot more work.

Quoting mariner (Reply 50):
And what I'm hearing from management, the results - and from Wall Street - is at variance with most things posted here and are at variance with the price of my (few ) RJET shares. Consequently, I find the constant bashing of the airline in these threads a bit tedious.

If they are doing so well, why the need to lay off 700 people yesterday who represent the brand to all their customers outside Denver? I think that is pretty much the final destruction of the old brand. Once you depend entirely on contractors good customer service is out the window. The brand now is entirely price based attraction and fare premiums are a thing of the past. They are becoming Allegiant but without the packaging where G4 makes their high margins. They are becoming Spirit without all the fees. They need to shore that part (ancilliary revenue) of their produce up with haste. No buyers yet either. Was there any update on the separation in the quarterly call? I didn't listen.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: bkflyguy
Posted 2013-02-06 06:53:07 and read 2583 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
I'm talking about the average fare for the last twelve months

My point is that average fare only tells part of the revenue story and DL makes quite a bit from fees for checked bags, buy on board, EC, etc. So I don't think the revenue side is so disparate as you make it sound. Plus, there is lost opportunity cost. Even if DL only makes $1 in profit that is profit it would otherwise not have. I am sure DL figures it can make more money having an extra RT to those destinations than having the planes just sit at JFK or by sending them elsewhere, esp. with the weakness in TATL flying this summer.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-02-06 07:25:29 and read 2544 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 40):
There's more to the story with the JFKSTI/SDQ cancellations, though. They used 763s that would otherwise be parked between European flights. Not exactly the most reliable 763 fleet these days, and AA decided they need those spare planes at JFK to smoothen out European ops.
Quoting bkflyguy (Reply 52):
I am sure DL figures it can make more money having an extra RT to those destinations than having the planes just sit at JFK or by sending them elsewhere, esp. with the weakness in TATL flying this summer.

A big difference for DL is that they are using 737-800s on JFK-SDQ/STI instead of 763s like AA.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-06 08:56:09 and read 2433 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 51):
Perhaps that is true, but you always say they are profitable and doing fine in Denver. If that were really true, then why all the constant changes?

You just love putting words in my mouth. I have never said they are profitable if they and when they have not been.

Quoting enilria (Reply 51):
If they are doing so well, why the need to lay off 700 people yesterday who represent the brand to all their customers outside Denver?

Because they're not profitable enough. - they are not yet cash positive. Among other things their costs are still too high.

Quoting enilria (Reply 51):
No buyers yet either.

Who are you so impatient? They have said - several times - that that separation, won't happen until this year and 2014 was the originally defined goal.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-06 08:57:20]

[Edited 2013-02-06 09:04:25]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2013-02-06 09:34:25 and read 2359 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 49):
Not by a long shot. RDU-NYC/CHI/BOS are all much larger than RDU-ATL, which is also a bit smaller than RDU-PHL and RDU-WAS.

Ohhhh.. According to the Triangle Business Journal, I think you are mistaken.. Per TBJ..

Destination = Annual pax
1. LGA = 476.3K
2. BOS = 417.7K
3. ATL = 376K
4. PHL = 360.7K
5. ORD = 262.8K
6. MCO = 249.6K
7. JFK = 229.8K
8. BWI = 219.3K
9. TPA = 192.9K
10. DEN = 192.5K

So ATL is number 3 and has normally been in the top 5 destinations... Maybe if you add MDW to ORD it may become number 3 but I doubt it...

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-06 10:15:38 and read 2281 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
You just love putting words in my mouth.

There are so many there already. :p You know you've said they are making money in Denver numerous times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Because they're not profitable enough.

Fair enough

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Quoting enilria (Reply 51):
No buyers yet either.

Who are you so impatient?

It's been 2 years! Can you show me media from 2 years ago saying 2014 was the goal?

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Among other things their costs are still too high.

I think the larger and less controllable problem is that their revenue is too low. They can toss the former brand and whatever revenue premium over WN it achieved, but they need to increase revenue either with the G4 approach or the NK approach or some new approach. So far that part of the equation has not been tackled. If BB really pulled the string on this outsourcing thing as has been suggested, it feeds back to the recurring problem which is that BB knows how to run a very low-cost, but dependable enough operation. What he has never known what to do with is how to get revenue except via a contract with another airline. I still don't see much evidence that has changed. You have talked about "revenue premiums" lately. They will never get another revenue premium on fare. Thy don't offer anything "special" at this point. Revenue is the problem.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-06 10:39:33 and read 2234 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
You know you've said they are making money in Denver numerous times.

Only when they are, when I can back it up, as here:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...rlines-posted-third-quarter-profit

"Frontier Airlines posted third quarter profit

Frontier Airlines, a subsidiary of Republic Airways Holdings, reported a third quarter pre-tax income of $29.8 million on Thursday. This marks a vast improvement over its pre-tax loss of $1.5 million posted for the same quarter last year."


Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
It's been 2 years! Can you show me media from 2 years ago saying 2014 was the goal?

The original FAPA agreement was fairly widely published and it said that Republic would have a minority position in Frontier by Spring, 2014.

Quoting enilria (Reply 56):
I think the larger and less controllable problem is that their revenue is too low.

Maybe. But since they are making money, I guess they're making some headway with that, too. It is a process, it doesn't happen overnight.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-06 10:55:24]

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-02-06 14:03:50 and read 2097 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 55):
According to the Triangle Business Journal, I think you are mistaken.. Per TBJ..

They're going by airport, not market. ORD+MDW-RDU is indeed larger than ATL-RDU, as is BWI+DCA+IAD-RDU. DOT's numbers have PHL ahead of ATL for RDU O&D by 10-15 PDEW.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-02-06 14:59:32 and read 2019 times.

wow, looks like PDX-YYZ has indeed been yanked. Can't book it on AirCanada.com and the agent said it is indeed ending.

woof  


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