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Topic: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-03 11:09:25 and read 8547 times.

Today we were talking about AZ cancelling FCO-PEK service, which came as a surprise to many. Among all possible hypothesis, we may start wondering who is actually taking that much passengers from AZ that they can't sustain a service between the capitals of the 2nd and 8th largest economies in the world. Cause, one starts to think, if that route can fail - any route can eventually fail, and be replaced by more profitable one-stop transit connections. Anyway, this thread is about a bit different question. Airlines open and cancel routes given their business results and strategic goals... We've been talking of many airlines cancelling routes, others readjusting their schedule, but there is one airline that for the last several years only seem to be opening new routes indefinitely, without cancelling or reducing frequency at any of those.

As an example, TK has been flying almost daily to BEG for many years, and the loads seemed to be quite good and capacity sufficient. Then FlyDubai entered the market - TK added more flights. Then QR entered the market - TK added even more flights. Lately Pegasus Airlines entered the market - TK became double-daily, and even up-to 18 weekly in SJJ - a frequency similar to IST-ZRH - (one would definitely wonder where the demand comes from, given SJJ is not exactly the economic powerhouse and handles just half-million pax a year), but then again, as other airlines entered the market, TK doubled or tripled the number of flights to given destinations...
These are short-medium haul examples, perhaps someone has long-haul examples of the never-step-back strategy.

So: TK - An airline business miracle or a dumping monster?

Share your thoughts.

[Edited 2013-02-03 11:14:22]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-03 11:21:37 and read 8513 times.

Yes TK certainly has withdrawn / reduced routes that did not work.

For example Miami and Kuala Lumpur are two longhaul routes that were cut.

Closer by in Europe Thessaloniki is an example of a market that was cut, and eventually brought back around 10-years later.

Samething domestically - some routes have been cut, or in many cases given over to all Y class AnadouluJet as mainline TK was losing money, or the route did not need business class seats.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Thread starter):
So: TK - An airline business miracle or a dumping monster?

Considering TK has published profits for the last 10-years, it cant be dumping capacity for the sake of dumping capacity without some positive economic return.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-03 11:27:32 and read 8478 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Samething domestically - some routes have been cut, or in many cases given over to all Y class AnadouluJet as mainline TK was losing money, or the route did not need business class seats.

Yes, TK's coverage within Turkey is very low* and low-cost airlines do dominate the market. However i just wonder how TK manages to make a profit with 14 weekly to SKP(!) and 18 weekly to a place like SJJ - that were served by daily or even less only a year ago, just amazing.
Anyway, it seems Pegasus became a fierce competitor for TK in Eastern Europe/Middle-East region(s).

*compared with the share of low-cost airlines.

[Edited 2013-02-03 11:41:18]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-02-03 11:31:51 and read 8449 times.

SKP and SJJ are very close to IST... much closer than almost any other major hub. Those are short flights.

They also have very little competition in terms of connections: LX and OS (and maybe FZ) in SKP and OS in SJJ.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-03 11:35:37 and read 8422 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 2):
Yes, TK's coverage within Turkey is very low and low-cost airlines do dominate the market.

Very low?

As of September 2012 its domestic market share was almost exactly 50% serving 35 destinations.

Also keep in mind the Turkish domestic market size has tripled in less then 10-years, so yes there are multiple LCCs, but the pie has continued to grow for the benefit of all.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-02-03 11:39:03 and read 8407 times.

Tk flew to MIA? When?
I assume they were hurt by MIA's status as a rival alliance's fortress hub.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2013-02-03 11:40:33 and read 8394 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 2):
TK's coverage within Turkey is very low and low-cost airlines do dominate the market.

In terms of LCC seats as a proportion of total seats domestically, in 2012 they represented 50.4%. While this represented a marginal drop over 2011 (52%), it was a major increase from 23.6% in 2009. (Internationally, LCCs had 19.9% of all seats in 2012, up from 7.8% in 2009.) Source for all: CAPA's LCC analysis.

[Edited 2013-02-03 11:41:07]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-03 11:42:06 and read 8376 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Very low?

As of September 2012 its domestic market share was almost exactly 50% serving 35 destinations.

Check the edit.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Steelyman
Posted 2013-02-03 11:47:05 and read 8350 times.

IIRC since 2003 there are no cancelled or reduced routes but I'm not 100% sure. What I can tell is that since 2008 there is NO case such as this one except for seasonality schedule changes (summer and winter seasons)

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2013-02-03 11:53:33 and read 8302 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):
Tk flew to MIA? When?
I assume they were hurt by MIA's status as a rival alliance's fortress hub.

TK flew to MIA in the late 90's/early 2000's when they were still partners with AA.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-03 12:28:01 and read 8155 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

That's good, but i still know very few Turkish people who will first look at TK when thinking to take a plane inside Turkey.

Also, do you include AnadoluJet in those ~50% market covered by TK?



Quoting Steelyman (Reply 8):

That's what seems to me as well and definitely it's kind of odd, it would mean that all routes launched are profitable or they're waiting for the competition to opt out...


[Edited 2013-02-03 12:34:59]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-03 12:48:56 and read 8052 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):

Tk flew to MIA? When?
I assume they were hurt by MIA's status as a rival alliance's fortress hub.


1999-2001. It we dropped following 9/11. As TK was then partnered with AA, there was no hurt. Even then, LX, LH, AZ, etc. aren't hurt by flying to a rival alliances fortress hub, why would TK?

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: sxb
Posted 2013-02-03 13:06:46 and read 7973 times.

SXB was cancelled in 08/2008 (route was opened in 1992).

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-03 13:44:50 and read 7833 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 7):
Check the edit.

TK is still the #1 airline domestically by a large margin.

Other LCCs, Pegasus, Atlasjet, Onur Air, Sun Express fight out for the other 50% of the pie.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 10):
That's good, but i still know very few Turkish people who will first look at TK when thinking to take a plane inside Turkey.

Also, do you include AnadoluJet in those ~50% market covered by TK?

Off course - AnadoluJet is Turkish Airlines. Flight numbers are all TK flight numbers.

Somehow - 15.9 million passengers chose to fly TK domestically in 2012. Maybe not your friends, but still almost 16 million people, the largest slice of the market.

Quoting Steelyman (Reply 8):
IIRC since 2003 there are no cancelled or reduced routes but I'm not 100% sure.

Sure there has been.

For example Osaka was dropped to come back. Same with Cape Town. Tbilisi was dropped to return.

Domestic service to Isparta, Usak, Adiyaman, Sinop, Siirt, Nevsehir, Sivas, Kahramanmaras and Balikesir have been dropped. Some to return later.

At the end while the trajectory is towards growth, if markets are not sustainable they do get reduced or dropped entirely.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-03 14:25:27 and read 7701 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 10):
That's good, but i still know very few Turkish people who will first look at TK when thinking to take a plane inside Turkey.

Also, do you include AnadoluJet in those ~50% market covered by TK?

Off course - AnadoluJet is Turkish Airlines. Flight numbers are all TK flight numbers.

There is the quiproquo. I wasn't including AnadoluJet in the operations and those who fly it don't say "we flew/we're going to fly Turk Hava Yollari" but Anadolu. Many Turks are scared of TK's prices. I'm very suprised however that NAV has been dropped, being the gateway to one of the major touristic centers of Turkey. Stil, it can be reached easily via ASR as well where TK flies...how often? But as of 2013 i think they restarted it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Same with Cape Town.

It is more of a surprise for me that it has been started at all than it was dropped eventually.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Quoting Steelyman (Reply 8):
IIRC since 2003 there are no cancelled or reduced routes but I'm not 100% sure.

Sure there has been.

What he wants to say is that TK dropped the least flights amongst all major Middle-Eastern carriers in the last decade, compared to QR, EY and especially the better performing EK. Those seem to be much more cautious (or impatient?).

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: boun
Posted 2013-02-03 15:12:51 and read 7570 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
But as of 2013 i think they restarted it.

Yes, it is double daily both ways.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
It is more of a surprise for me that it has been started at all than it was dropped eventually.

It is still operating. I can't comment on the initial operations prior to cancellation, but after the relaunch I've been on the flight two times. Both times, both ways full load with very little amount of Turkish people in it. Mostly connecting passengers I believe. This is very reasonable since the frequency has increased gradually to daily operations since the relaunch.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2013-02-03 16:45:20 and read 7461 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 11):
1999-2001. It we dropped following 9/11. As TK was then partnered with AA, there was no hurt. Even then, LX, LH, AZ, etc. aren't hurt by flying to a rival alliances fortress hub, why would TK?

The other airlines have much more O&D traffic Europe-side. MIA is a large destination for Germans, many of whom are *A elites.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-03 17:07:38 and read 7408 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
What he wants to say is that TK dropped the least flights amongst all major Middle-Eastern carriers in the last decade

TK isn't considered a Middle Eastern carrier according to usual airline industry definitions. They consider themselves a European carrier and all traffic and other data in industry sources (IATA, ICAO etc.) includes TK as part of Europe. I realize most of Turkey isn't in Europe geographically.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: SOBHI51
Posted 2013-02-03 20:09:16 and read 7132 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Thread starter):
As an example, TK

They cancelled DAM for obvious reason.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-03 20:26:33 and read 7050 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 16):
The other airlines have much more O&D traffic Europe-side. MIA is a large destination for Germans, many of whom are *A elites.

Miami-Istanbul demographics are no different. Heavily Turkish originating and one of the larger U.S.-Turkey markets.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: stylo777
Posted 2013-02-03 21:30:00 and read 6803 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
I'm very suprised however that NAV has been dropped, being the gateway to one of the major touristic centers of Turkey. Stil, it can be reached easily via ASR as well where TK flies...how often? But as of 2013 i think they restarted it.

NAV is operating double daily...

1 TK2006 D IST D NAV 0955 1115 0 09JAN13 30MAR13 738 1:20
2 TK2008 D IST D NAV 1955 2120 0 28OCT12 30MAR13 734 1:25

in fact, I flew that route last year twice; both times with 319.

ASR is of course the second gateway to Capadocia, the touristic center, after NAV; however, ASR is also very large in terms of economy and trade.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ankaraflyjet
Posted 2013-02-04 00:11:25 and read 6174 times.

The success of TK lies in the operating costs and geographical advantage. TK flies to Europe, CIS, ME, North Africa and many sub-Saharan African routes with a narrow body and this is something major European carriers cannot do (i.e. BA, AF etc) You can fly from IST to Dublin with a 737 or A320 in 3 hour and 45 minutes and from IST to Dubai in 4 hours. That is why TK is attracting an increasing number of connecting traffic from European airports towards East vice versa. Combined with TK's unrivalled in cabin service, it is difficult for many airlines to offer better service, more frequencies etc.

Given the potentail of Turkey, the trend will go like that for a while before TK starts to drop destinations. TK will grow wider and will introduce new destinations and eventually will be able to assess whether the destination makes sense as part of a global play-ground or not. This may happen 3 to 4 years from today. Of course act of God or civil unrest etc. type of reasons are always there just like it is the case for DAM at present.

On a related topic, if TK was flying to MIA today I don't think they would cancel it as before. The way TK operates today is changed since then and any seizable North American destination will work for TK.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-04 00:31:38 and read 6064 times.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 22):
On a related topic, if TK was flying to MIA today I don't think they would cancel it as before. The way TK operates today is changed since then and any seizable North American destination will work for TK.


Right on. If only they had the planes in their fleet now... Hence the 40-strong order for 333s and 77Ws and leases for this summer.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2013-02-04 01:11:15 and read 5888 times.

Turkey currently being in quite a strong economic position, along with such a good geographic location, sure does give TK a chance to exploit many opportunities others would struggle with.

The new airport will give it a huge opportunity to grow that position every stronger.

Routes may well come and go over time, but they will find new ones to take on.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-04 01:40:17 and read 5762 times.

BTW, MIA, KUL and SXB are the only stations canceled and not restarted as of yet, with KUL probably coming back online this year.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 2):
Yes, TK's coverage within Turkey is very low* and low-cost airlines do dominate the market. However i just wonder how TK manages to make a profit with 14 weekly to SKP(!) and 18 weekly to a place like SJJ - that were served by daily or even less only a year ago, just amazing.
Anyway, it seems Pegasus became a fierce competitor for TK in Eastern Europe/Middle-East region(s).

*compared with the share of low-cost airlines.

If for example KL can operate 3 daily to LBA or 3 daily to BGO, smallish cities in other countries, it shouldn't be a surprise that TK flies 2 daily to SJJ or SKP.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ceo@afg
Posted 2013-02-04 07:19:01 and read 4493 times.

Where is it likely TK will add A380 or B748i flights if and when they order those aircraft? Not entirely sure what is TKs most heavy duty routes.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-04 07:27:40 and read 4474 times.

Quoting ceo@afg (Reply 28):

Where is it likely TK will add A380 or B748i flights if and when they order those aircraft? Not entirely sure what is TKs most heavy duty routes.

BKK, JFK, LAX, PEK, PVG come to mind. Not to say you won't see it doing the occasional run to LHR or FRA if they order it  

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2013-02-04 07:32:13 and read 4466 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 29):

Heck they could even do BJV and AYT in the summer time 

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: bahadir
Posted 2013-02-04 07:32:33 and read 4467 times.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 22):
On a related topic, if TK was flying to MIA today I don't think they would cancel it as before. The way TK operates today is changed since then and any seizable North American destination will work for TK.

I think MIA is still a low priority compared to other US destinations. The entire reason why MIA was opened was due to the influx of Turkish people to the sandy beaches, low house ownership, etc. Just because there are Turks in a location doesn't mean that your service is going to stick. This is the same way Olympic operated for many years and this is the same way they failed.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-04 08:24:37 and read 4223 times.

Network effects.

It works for EK. And it should work quite well for TK.

They could lose money on SJJ and BEG and then make up all of it and then some on those customers trip to elsewhere. If any of those customers are going anywhere east of IST, it makes sense to travel through IST. More so than DXB, DOH or AUH. Have a look at a trip to India, China, Japan, South East Asia. All more efficient transiting through IST.

And since they don't have to use widebodies like EK, EY or QR soemtimes, they can offer multiple frequencies, improving convenience and reducing travel and transit times. Add to that, you aren't sitting very long on a narrowbody, like you would be if transiting through DOH on occassion.

The only thing I don't get is why Turks fly TK when travelling east. That's a good bit of backtracking.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Istanbuler83
Posted 2013-02-04 08:45:43 and read 4117 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 29):
The only thing I don't get is why Turks fly TK when travelling east. That's a good bit of backtracking.

What do you mean exactly with that? There are no TK flights outbound to Asia from Eastern-Turkey. The only real international hub is IST. So, there is no other option for Turks.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: sofianec
Posted 2013-02-04 09:06:48 and read 3999 times.

For many years TK flew a single daily flt IST-SOF and it was always pretty O/D as connections were hampered by the lack of convenient times and in 90% of the cases an overnight stay at IST was required. Once they introduced a second flight albeit not daily many connections were possible both ways - both flights = full. So there's your answer why extra frequency leads to more pax.

---

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: TurkishWings
Posted 2013-02-04 09:41:25 and read 3816 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
TK isn't considered a Middle Eastern carrier according to usual airline industry definitions. They consider themselves a European carrier and all traffic and other data in industry sources (IATA, ICAO etc.) includes TK as part of Europe. I realize most of Turkey isn't in Europe geographically.

As per Tupolev160, TK is a Middle -Eastern airline. We gave him all the proof we can but he will not get it. He will not accept it. Most of the time, we don't even bother answering to him. I suggest you do the same....

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-04 09:49:20 and read 3778 times.

Quoting Istanbuler83 (Reply 30):
What do you mean exactly with that? There are no TK flights outbound to Asia from Eastern-Turkey. The only real international hub is IST. So, there is no other option for Turks.

I meant that oddly enough, Turks are the people who are best positioned to use DOH, AUH, or DXB, becuase of the backtracking involved in using IST. The rest of Europe though, is better off in most cases, using IST.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: 777way
Posted 2013-02-04 09:56:56 and read 3715 times.

Can the Middle Eastern carriers capture Eastern Turkey markets, especially the LCCs?

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-04 10:27:07 and read 3549 times.

Quoting 777way (Reply 34):
Can the Middle Eastern carriers capture Eastern Turkey markets, especially the LCCs?

They should be able to get some. That said, it would really only help for South Asia and South-East Asia bound travel. And then only for the eastern half of Turkey. If you're in Ankara and you want to go to Hong Kong, it's still faster to backtrack to IST than to travel through DXB or DOH or AUH. But if you're in VAN, backtracking to IST add 3 hours of flight time vs. 1 hour through any of the Gulf 3. And in that case, it makes much more sense to travel via DEL for example.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-02-04 10:46:43 and read 3440 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 35):
They should be able to get some. That said, it would really only help for South Asia and South-East Asia bound travel. And then only for the eastern half of Turkey. If you're in Ankara and you want to go to Hong Kong, it's still faster to backtrack to IST than to travel through DXB or DOH or AUH. But if you're in VAN, backtracking to IST add 3 hours of flight time vs. 1 hour through any of the Gulf 3. And in that case, it makes much more sense to travel via DEL for example.

How much traffic is generated in Eastern Turkey? Does anyone have the numbers?

IST is still the overwhelmingly dominant market in Turkey ... and the other big airports such as ADB, ESB, AYT ... are also in the western half of the country, pls correct me if I'm wrong. So unless a substantial amount is generated from the eastern half ... the point is moot.

The backpacker traffic that visits eastern Anatolia will likely stop at points west ... and Istanbul too. So their travel itineraries are probably best served by flying through IST. LCCs may be able to take 'some' ... but is that a substantial traffic to launch services from AUH, DXB, DOH, etc?

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: viasa
Posted 2013-02-04 11:25:37 and read 3295 times.

19JAN2013:
Istanbul (IST) - Sebha (SEB) route has been suspended until March 10, 2013.
Sebha (SEB) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until March 10, 2013.

07JAN2013:
Istanbul (IST) - Sinop (NOP) route has been suspended until October 1, 2013.
Sinop (NOP) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until October 1, 2013.

08DEC2012:
Brussels (BRU) - Eskisehir (AOE) route has been suspended until April 1, 2013.
Eskisehir (AOE) - Brussels (BRU) route has been suspended until April 2, 2013.

02NOV2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Bodrum (BJV) route has been suspended until May 13, 2013.
Ankara (ESB) - Stockholm (ARN) route has been suspended until April 1, 2013.
Antalya (AYT) - Baghdad (BGW) route has been suspended until April 1, 2013.
Antalya (AYT) - Erbil (EBL) route has been suspended until April 1, 2013.
Baghdad (BGW) - Antalya (AYT) route has been suspended until April 1, 2013.
Bodrum (BJV) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until May 13, 2013.
Erbil (EBL) - Antalya (AYT) route has been suspended until April 2, 2013.
Hamburg (HAM) - Izmir (ADB) route has been suspended until June 2, 2013.
Izmir (ADB) - Hamburg (HAM) route has been suspended until June 3, 2013.
Stockholm (ARN) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until April 2, 2013.

25OCT2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Berlin (TXL) route has been suspended until June 19, 2013.
Berlin (TXL) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until June 18, 2013.

15OCT2012:
Istanbul (IST) - Sebha (SEB) route has been suspended until December 2, 2012.
Sebha (SEB) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until December 2, 2012.

07OCT2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Bodrum (BJV) route has been suspended until October 20, 2012.
Bodrum (BJV) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until October 20, 2012.

22SEP2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Stuttgart (STR) route has been suspended until April 6, 2013.
Kayseri (ASR) - Stuttgart (STR) route has been suspended until June 3, 2013.
Stuttgart (STR) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until April 5, 2013.
Stuttgart (STR) - Kayseri (ASR) route has been suspended until June 2, 2013.
Stuttgart (STR) - Trabzon (TZX) route has been suspended until June 1, 2013.
Trabzon (TZX) - Stuttgart (STR) route has been suspended until June 2, 2013.

17SEP2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Edremit (EDO) route has been suspended until June 14, 2013.
Edremit (EDO) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until June 14, 2013.
Kayseri (ASR) - Vienna (VIE) route has been suspended until June 30, 2013.
Samsun (SZF) - Vienna (VIE) route has been suspended until June 29, 2013.
Vienna (VIE) - Kayseri (ASR) route has been suspended until June 29, 2013.
Vienna (VIE) - Samsun (SZF) route has been suspended until June 28, 2013.

10SEP2012:
Adana (ADA) - Dusseldorf (DUS) route has been suspended until June 27, 2013.
Adana (ADA) - Hamburg (HAM) route has been suspended until June 28, 2013.
Dusseldorf (DUS) - Adana (ADA) route has been suspended until June 26, 2013.
Dusseldorf (DUS) - Kayseri (ASR) route has been suspended until June 25, 2013.
Dusseldorf (DUS) - Samsun (SZF) route has been suspended until June 27, 2013.
Hamburg (HAM) - Adana (ADA) route has been suspended until June 27, 2013.
Kayseri (ASR) - Dusseldorf (DUS) route has been suspended until June 26, 2013.
Samsun (SZF) - Dusseldorf (DUS) route has been suspended until June 28, 2013.

18AUG2012:
Khartoum (KRT) - Mogadishu (MGQ) route will be terminated on August 31, 2012.
Erzurum (ERZ) - Tabriz (TBZ) route has been cancelled.
Mogadishu (MGQ) - Khartoum (KRT) route has been cancelled.
Tabriz (TBZ) - Erzurum (ERZ) route has been cancelled.

13JUL2012:
Erzurum (ERZ) - Lefkosa (ECN) route has been cancelled.
Lefkosa (ECN) - Erzurum (ERZ) route has been cancelled.

24JUN2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Nakhichevan (NAJ) route has been cancelled.
Nakhichevan (NAJ) - Ankara (ESB) route has been cancelled.

11JUN2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Diyarbakir (DIY) route has been suspended until September 1, 2012.
Diyarbakir (DIY) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until September 1, 2012.
Diyarbakir (DIY) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until September 1, 2012.
Istanbul (IST) - Diyarbakir (DIY) route has been suspended until September 1, 2012.

03JUN2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Batumi (BUS) route will be terminated on June 5, 2012.
Batumi (BUS) - Ankara (ESB) route will be terminated on June 5, 2012.

20MAY2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Baku (GYD) route has been cancelled.
Baku (GYD) - Ankara (ESB) route has been cancelled.
Istanbul (SAW) - Moscow (DME) route has been cancelled.
Moscow (DME) - Istanbul (SAW) route has been cancelled.

11MAY2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Batumi (BUS) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.
Ankara (ESB) - Nakhichevan (NAJ) route has been suspended until June 7, 2012.
Batumi (BUS) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.
Nakhichevan (NAJ) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until June 7, 2012.

04MAY2012:
Aleppo (ALP) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.
Damascus (DAM) - Istanbul (IST) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.
Istanbul (IST) - Aleppo (ALP) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.
Istanbul (IST) - Damascus (DAM) route has been suspended until June 2, 2012.

19APR2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Dusseldorf (DUS) route has been suspended until June 21, 2012.
Dusseldorf (DUS) - Ankara (ESB) route has been suspended until June 21, 2012.
Ankara (ESB) - London (STN) route will be terminated on April 29, 2012.
London (STN) - Ankara (ESB) route will be terminated on April 29, 2012.

14APR2012:
Ankara (ESB) - Moscow (DME) route has been cancelled.
Köseköy (KCO) - Trabzon (TZX) route has been cancelled.
Moscow (DME) - Ankara (ESB) route has been cancelled.
Trabzon (TZX) - Köseköy (KCO) route has been cancelled.

06APR2012:
Aleppo International (ALP) - Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) route has been suspended until May 2, 2012.
Damascus (DAM) - Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) route has been suspended until May 1, 2012.
Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) - Aleppo International (ALP) route has been suspended until May 2, 2012.
Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) - Damascus (DAM) route has been suspended until May 1, 2012.

30MAR2012:
Dhaka Hazrat Shahjalal International (DAC) - Karachi Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah International (KHI) route has been suspended until October 28, 2012.
Karachi Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah International (KHI) - Dhaka Hazrat Shahjalal International (DAC) route has been suspended until October 29, 2012.
Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) - Dalaman (DLM) route has been cancelled.
Antalya (AYT) - Stockholm Arlanda (ARN) route has been cancelled.
Dalaman (DLM) - Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) route has been cancelled.
Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) - Kharkov Osnova (HRK) route has been cancelled.
Kharkov Osnova (HRK) - Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) route has been cancelled.
Stockholm Arlanda (ARN) - Antalya (AYT) route has been cancelled.

19MAR2012:
Adana (ADA) - Munich Franz Josef Strauss International (MUC) route has been cancelled.
Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) - Munich Franz Josef Strauss International (MUC) route has been cancelled.
Munich Franz Josef Strauss International (MUC) - Adana (ADA) route has been cancelled.
Munich Franz Josef Strauss International (MUC) - Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) route has been cancelled.

14MAR2012:
Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) - Dalaman (DLM) route has been suspended until June 18, 2012.
Dalaman (DLM) - Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) route has been suspended until June 18, 2012.
Antalya (AYT) - Moscow Sheremetyevo International (SVO) route will be terminated on March 21, 2012.
Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) - Moscow Sheremetyevo International (SVO) route will be terminated on March 24, 2012.
Moscow Sheremetyevo International (SVO) - Antalya (AYT) route will be terminated on March 22, 2012.
Moscow Sheremetyevo International (SVO) - Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) route will be terminated on March 24, 2012.
Amsterdam Schiphol (AMS) - Kayseri Erkilet (ASR) route has been cancelled.
Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) - Copenhagen Kastrup (CPH) route has been cancelled.
Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) - Frankfurt International (FRA) route has been cancelled.
Buenos Aires Ezeiza Ministro Pistarini (EZE) - Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) route has been cancelled.
Copenhagen Kastrup (CPH) - Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) route has been cancelled.
Frankfurt International (FRA) - Ankara Esenboga International (ESB) route has been cancelled.
Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST) - Buenos Aires Ezeiza Ministro Pistarini (EZE) route has been cancelled.
Istanbul Sabiha Gökcen International (SAW) - Nakhichevan (NAJ) route has been cancelled.
Kayseri Erkilet (ASR) - Amsterdam Schiphol (AMS) route has been cancelled.
Nakhichevan (NAJ) - Istanbul Sabiha Gökcen International (SAW) route has been cancelled.

All information are from the schedule news section of ch-aviation.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: TurkishWings
Posted 2013-02-04 11:42:09 and read 3252 times.

Quoting viasa (Reply 37):

Great list though most of the mentioned routes are seasonal routes... Mostly summer only leisure routes...

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Turkish350XWB
Posted 2013-02-04 11:55:08 and read 3229 times.

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 32):
As per Tupolev160, TK is a Middle -Eastern airline. We gave him all the proof we can but he will not get it. He will not accept it. Most of the time, we don't even bother answering to him. I suggest you do the same....

  

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-02-04 12:10:39 and read 3203 times.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 21):
You can fly from IST to Dublin with a 737 or A320 in 3 hour and 45 minutes and from IST to Dubai in 4 hours.

Indeed and there is quite an increase in traffic DUB-IST-LOS also . They have taken traffic from AF/KL and LH. Even though its a longer trip. TK have been very good in marketing their connections from DUB Via IST and also backing it up with special offers and decent fares.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-04 13:27:58 and read 3120 times.

Quoting ceo@afg (Reply 25):

Such aircraft can't operate from IST due to airport/runway restrictions. Even the 777 has weight restrictions ex-IST, especially in summer.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-04 14:07:19 and read 3050 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 41):

And how is that? Airbus lists take-off run at MTOW as 2750m for A380, which is shorter that that of 77W (makes sense as it has 4 engines).

IST has 3200m runways. The limitation is not runway length but gate space.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-04 14:42:47 and read 2983 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 42):

Hi leftyboarder, nice to hear from you. So are you talking about the left runway at IST, as your name suggests?
Cause the longest runways at IST are only 3000m long. So, while it seems near-limit for the A380 it is certainly a no-go for the 747-8 which needs almost 3400m for take-off at MTOW. So those planes are no option for TK, too big, and that as i said not just cause of the runways but airport restrictions too (gates, taxiways etc.).

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-04 14:46:44 and read 2972 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 43):

3000 indeed, my typo. And your condesending tone is omnipresent. Any A380 order won't be arriving in the next few years anyway so IST being unable to handle the type is moot.

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-04 15:20:32 and read 2912 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 44):

Finally, on one thing we totally agree   

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-04 15:39:23 and read 2903 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 43):
So those planes are no option for TK, too big,

That's cute.

I remember when people said that about EK ordering a bunch of A380s.

The runway and terminal space limitations should be resolved in about 6-7 years (we have to assume some modest delays) with the new airport.

Not that I think TK should order A380s (I think they could easily make several dozen A350-1000s work quite well.), but if they did, I don't see why TK couldn't make them work.

TK offers a number of advantages the Gulf 3 don't:

1) Star Alliance privileges
2) A hub where people that actually offers tourists something beyond shopping.
3) A more direct routing for most routes from the eastern half of North America to South Asia and Southeast Asia
4) A chance to stop in a quasi-European country where the rule of law and authorities and much more in line with Western norms. Turkey may not be perfect. But it's a lot safer dealing with authorities there than any Gulf country.

[Edited 2013-02-04 15:46:13]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Tupolev160
Posted 2013-02-04 19:36:15 and read 2795 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 46):

Safer for who, for Canadians? I remember you taking a few slaps from the UAE indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada...ace_to_Canadian_ministers.27_plane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada..._requirements_imposed_on_Canadians

[Edited 2013-02-04 19:36:55]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-05 06:35:59 and read 2616 times.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
Safer for who, for Canadians? I remember you taking a few slaps from the UAE indeed.

Before I was a Canadian citizen, I was an Indian citizen. And one who resided and spent half my childhood in Dubai. I assure you, I am quite knowledgeable with the way foreign nationals from different parts of the world are treated there.

And I am not referring to the spat between Canada and the UAE. I am referring to crap like this:

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/cr...-drug-officer-s-jail-term-1.211208

Fat chance this would happen to a Canadian national in another NATO country. He was convicted for having a few grams of poppy bulbs. And for hashish in his bloodstream which was proven to be at levels of second hand smoke...consistent to exposure for a counter-narcotics officer.

or like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-months-Dubai-having-sex-taxi.html

Sex in the back of a cab is never a good idea anywhere. But there's very few places, where it'll get you 3 months in prison after the DNA tests prove negative. And I'm willing to bet that nobody in Turkey has gotten 3 months in prison for a similar offence.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...p-or-go-to-jail-banks-tell-debtors

God forbid you miss paying your credit card bill on time.

Oh. And if you get killed, compensation to your family depends both on your religion and gender. If you're a Hindu woman, you'll get less than a quarter of Muslim man gets paid. Or if you end up a car accident that results in somebody's death, you'll be sitting in prison till the Diyya gets paid. Which in some cases can be several million Dh.

And of course all these laws are applied very flexibly where local nationals are concerned, but quite rigidly when foreign nationals are involved. And the darker your skin, the harsher the application of those laws will be.

Dubai is a nice place to shop to be sure. But at the end of the day, the safety and security accorded to foreign nationals, particularly Western nationals is substantially higher in Turkey than anywhere in the Middle East. That's reality. And anybody who has lived in that part of the world will tell you that.

[Edited 2013-02-05 06:53:37]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-02-05 09:33:05 and read 2495 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 48):
Before I was a Canadian citizen, I was an Indian citizen. And one who resided and spent half my childhood in Dubai. I assure you, I am quite knowledgeable with the way foreign nationals from different parts of the world are treated there.

I doubt this is an issue for 99.99% of passengers transiting with EK or TK. Anyway, Turkey is far from being a fully functioning democracy either.

My only argument ever in an airport with security staff (for which I was said that I should handle my passport if my behaviour continued in that way (!)) was in Ataturk with the secondary (or 3rd if you are using IST as departure point) gate security (and trust me, I am not the kind of person that would shout or argue with anyone for no reason... but probably transiting after a long trip I get sick of lack of professionalism and I would reply to their bad demeanor). I usually find staff at IST quite unprofessional and uninterested to help or ask any question (nonetheless in English, which most barely understand). I am sure those workers at IST have far more rights (probably they are unionized, something never heard off in DXB) that workers at Dubai Airport, but somehow the smiley Filipinos, Lebanese and local workers at Gulf airports are more a pleasant experience... at least if you are Caucasian or from a wealthy Asian country like Japan or Korea.

I have been to most of the Gulf countries and usually the only question the immigration officers would ask me is... which is my favourite soccer team in my country.... I highly doubt that would be the only question a Canadian officer would ask me in DXB is terrible racist place (even if there are many well-off South-Asians that are sometimes the first to take advantage of their nationals), but for most ppl transiting... I can't see how this is an issue.

[Edited 2013-02-05 09:36:19]

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: stylo777
Posted 2013-02-05 09:40:51 and read 2466 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 49):
was in Ataturk with the secondary (or 3rd if you are using IST as departure point) gate security

gate security is long gone; those are carried out now centrally (like in any other major hub).

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-02-05 10:15:55 and read 2416 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 48):
Before I was a Canadian citizen, I was an Indian citizen. And one who resided and spent half my childhood in Dubai. I assure you, I am quite knowledgeable with the way foreign nationals from different parts of the world are treated there.

Cant really disagree there as I hear the same from people still based out there.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 49):
I doubt this is an issue for 99.99% of passengers transiting with EK or TK. Anyway, Turkey is far from being a fully functioning democracy either.

Well a lot more people are being made aware of the dangers of transit at DXB. I love Dubai and enjoyed all my visits there but these kind of things do put you off :

First highlighted back in 2008 and people can be totally unaware of these things :

Travellers to the United Arab Emirates are being warned about its severe drug laws which have seen dozens detained for apparently minor offences.
Fair Trials International said arrests were being made over tiny quantities of drugs and over-the-counter medicines.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234786.stm

Even if your touching down for 90 mins you really need to be aware that back pain tablets could land you in jail !

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-06 17:51:08 and read 2205 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 49):
I have been to most of the Gulf countries and usually the only question the immigration officers would ask me is... which is my favourite soccer team in my country.... I highly doubt that would be the only question a Canadian officer would ask me

I will flat out guess that your skin is lighter than mine.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 49):
I doubt this is an issue for 99.99% of passengers transiting with EK or TK. Anyway, Turkey is far from being a fully functioning democracy either.

Turkey may not be a fully functioning democracy, but it is a democracy. It also has a relatively reasonable judiciary (who are not apt to jail someone for 0.003 grams of marijuana on their shoe) and it is a NATO country not likely to subject the government personnel of other NATO allies to prison for relatively minor infractions.

Add to that, a lot of Turkey's issues have to do with their own internal disputes and are not likely to impact on tourists or transients. Most of the more deplorable parts of Turkey's human rights record has to do with their internal issues with separatist campaigns and such.

The UAE's rules on the other hand, mostly ensnare outsiders and rarely ever applied against UAE nationals.

Now, I am not saying every country is perfect. But in my opinion, Turkey is a far safer bet for any traveller.

Simple thought experiment. Suppose a certain a traveler had paraphanelia in his luggage displaying homosexuality (gay porn) or advocating for "Greater Israel", which airport do you think is a safer transit point for that individual?

Topic: RE: Does Turkish Airlines Ever Cancels/Reduces Routes?
Username: Yakamoz
Posted 2013-02-06 22:35:04 and read 2120 times.

So when you add Aleppo and Damascus to the list due to conflict, then there are two more.


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