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Topic: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: behramjee
Posted 2013-02-01 08:09:23 and read 18153 times.

Brilliant move and a very well kept secret indeed...looks like 5 more are on the books

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...0er-backlog-to-20-ceo-says-381787/

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-01 08:20:29 and read 17997 times.

Its hardly a secret - AA has a large pool of 777 options/purchase rights, and has been slowly exercising them.

Related, AA just filed with the court that it expect to sell two upcoming deliveries to Guggenheim.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: tonytifao
Posted 2013-02-01 08:27:58 and read 17901 times.

So how many total 773?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-01 08:33:40 and read 17830 times.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 2):
So how many total 773?

The very first line of the linked article states, "American Airlines has increased its order for Boeing 777-300ERs to 20, says chairman and chief executive Tom Horton."

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: A388
Posted 2013-02-01 10:00:16 and read 17183 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Related, AA just filed with the court that it expect to sell two upcoming deliveries to Guggenheim.

Sell as in sell and lease back? I think AA can use (much) more than the 20 they have on order now.

A388

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-02-01 10:05:51 and read 17141 times.

It does also say, though, that AA hasn't disclosed how many are firm orders and how many are options. Previously AA held 13 firm orders and two options. Presumably the two existing options are being converted; those might be the two that LAXIntl mentioned. As a wild guess, I'll guess that the new order is 2 firm and 3 options.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-02-01 10:09:33 and read 17079 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 5):
Previously AA held 13 firm orders and two options. Presumably the two existing options are being converted; those might be the two that LAXIntl mentioned. As a wild guess, I'll guess that the new order is 2 firm and 3 options.

That's how I read it. 13 orders, two options firmed up, for a total of 15 orders, plus 5 new orders/options, the specific allocation of which isn't clear.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-02-01 12:59:40 and read 16056 times.

Wasn't there a recent thread about a big Boeing 777 and 737 order? (15 777s and 30 737s)

I think it said the 737 and 777s were ordered by different carriers but many thought the 777 order was from an Asian carrier. My guess is that this was AA's order with 5 firm and options for an additional 10.


On a related note does anyone think the more 77Ws AA orders the less chance AA's 787-9 are goint to have F

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: BlueLine
Posted 2013-02-01 13:21:54 and read 15864 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 7):
On a related note does anyone think the more 77Ws AA orders the less chance AA's 787-9 are goint to have F

The 789's will have first, as I think they would be deployed on thinner ULH routes, or to increase frequency on long routes. The 788's on the other hand, I can see in two configurations. One with a few F seats for higher yielding and longer routes and one without for routes the 763 currently flies.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-01 13:58:03 and read 15516 times.

5 more is just "5 more" AA will probably get 20 More. If AA does get 35 or 40 77W I hope AA expands the route map beyond where they currebtly fly, many will be used to Heathrow and Tokyo with Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Hong Kong, Johannesburg and Dubai. Hey if Cathay can fly 8000 miles nonstop from JFK to HKG so can AA.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Jetsgo
Posted 2013-02-01 16:56:16 and read 12742 times.

I feel like a total n00b for asking this, but it's been bugging me for the past 10 years I've been on this site. What exactly does it mean someome orders 5 and "has options for an additional amount" ? I want to assume it's along the lines of a pre-negotiated price, but not 100% sure. Thanks.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2013-02-01 18:14:41 and read 11782 times.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):

Options are both pre-negotiated terms and a place holder on the order queue. So if a carrier orders 10 777s with 10 options, that means that the airline can order an additional 10 777s with the same terms as the initial 10.

The 10 options will also hold a place in the order queue. So if the carrier decides to exercise the options and convert them to a firm order, the order will not go at the end of the queue, the new order will simply attach to the initial order.

This is a good thing for a carrier that may be uncertain about their aircraft needs in the future. If a carrier wants to place an order for 20 777s, but is unsure whether they will need all 20, they can simply place a firm order for a smaller amount (say 10) and place options for the remaining amount (10). This way if 5-6 months down the road, they figure out that they will need the additional 10, they simply firm up the options. If they dont need them, then they cancel the options or simply let them "expire".

This saves them the hassle of placing a brand new order with new terms that will go at the end of the queue.

[Edited 2013-02-01 18:23:16]

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2013-02-01 18:26:03 and read 11611 times.

Well done for "Old technology" when is Qantas going to pull its head out of the sand or grow a pair and order some?!

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Darksnowynight
Posted 2013-02-01 18:28:03 and read 11573 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):

Well done for "Old technology" when is Qantas going to pull its head out of the sand or grow a pair and order some?!

I would imagine that the 779X will be a good point for them to jump in to the 777 party.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-02-01 18:57:38 and read 11238 times.

Good heavens! AA intends on being a major player. These several orders are akin to UAL buying the 744 several years ago.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-01 18:58:10 and read 11210 times.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 11):
The 10 options will also hold a place in the order queue. So if the carrier decides to exercise the options and convert them to a firm order, the order will not go at the end of the queue, the new order will simply attach to the initial order.

Is the difference between an option and a 'purchase right' simply that the latter doesn't hold a place in line, or is there more to it? I often see all three referred to in an order—firm, options, and purchase rights.

Two examples:

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/South...ase_Rights_Boeing_737-700_Aircraft

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...next-generation-737s-98751354.html

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2013-02-01 19:14:30 and read 11026 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Is the difference between an option and a 'purchase right' simply that the latter doesn't hold a place in line

Thats correct. At least thats how I understand it.

In terms of "seriousness of commitment" the order is as follows:


1. LOI / MoU - An agreement to place an order in the future at pre negotiated terms. No fee or payment attached and is very easy to cancel. Not a lot of specific details. This is not a commitment.

2. Purchase Rights - A specified amount of aircraft that the carrier has rights to order at a pre negotiated price. This is usually attached to a firm order. Does not hold a place in the queue and is fairly easy to cancel. No delivery date specified.

3. Options - A specified amount of aircraft that the carrier has rights to order at a pre negotiated price. This is usually attached to a firm order. Holds a place in the order line and have a delivery date. There is usually a fee or down payment attached to options that is refunded if the options are not exercised. Not so hard to cancel options.

4. Firm Order - A specified amount of aircraft that the carrier has ordered and are on the queue ready to get built. Comes with a specified delivery date. The carrier pays a non refundable down payment. It is a bit harder and more expensive to cancel a firm order.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-02-01 19:47:06 and read 10675 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):
Well done for "Old technology" when is Qantas going to pull its head out of the sand or grow a pair and order some?!

What on earth does this have anything do with AA ordering more 77Ws? That said, QF pulled their head out of the sand back when they ordered A330s -- a mixture of 744s and 777s would have left them in a far worse state than the 744/A330 fleet they ended up with. A mixture of A330s, 77Ws, 744s and A380s would probably have been the end of the international division.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-02-01 19:54:14 and read 10556 times.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 16):
2. Purchase Rights - A specified amount of aircraft that the carrier has rights to order at a pre negotiated price. This is usually attached to a firm order. Does not hold a place in the queue and is fairly easy to cancel. No delivery date specified.

True. But just to be clear, the price is somewhat variable based on various costs. For example, I now work for a vendor and our parts cost so many hours of labor charged at a rate that goes up with inflation plus we charge a multiple of the raw material cost.

This is true of most purchases with the price only truly being 'locked in' two years before delivery (or so...) when the costs are fixed.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 16):
Not so hard to cancel options.

They used to have a cost too... not so much anymore.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 16):
It is a bit harder and more expensive to cancel a firm order.

Boeing and Airbus usually do a good job of differing. Actually cancelling a firm order has become rare. More often the order is differed until a different model is ordered. The deposit almost never leaves Boeing or Airbus.


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2013-02-01 20:11:57 and read 10369 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):

Thanks for the additional info.   I was just giving a quick rundown on the differences.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2013-02-01 23:55:12 and read 8872 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
What on earth does this have anything do with AA ordering more 77Ws? That said, QF pulled their head out of the sand back when they ordered A330s -- a mixture of 744s and 777s would have left them in a far worse state than the 744/A330 fleet they ended up with. A mixture of A330s, 77Ws, 744s and A380s would probably have been the end of the international division.

because QF is pretty much the only holdout in terms of 777s (LH being the other). The 744 fleet would be down to only the ERs is why and they would only be used for sub-Antarctic routes (JNB, SCL) and as fill ins. DFW could have been daily direct in both directions, AKL-LAX could have remained with the massive freight ability of the 77W. SFO could have remained (A330s can't reach it). YVR could have been added from SYD also. HKG-LHR would have been viable with the lower fuel costs and increased freight ability. SYD-LAX-JFK would be right sized with the 77W as would a daily BNE-LAX.
The Asian routes would have been the A330s domain as they are good at those shorter hops.

That is why QF should have/should still get the 777. Some of those routes could be 787 routes but its not as big.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 00:26:41 and read 8658 times.

I think QF will bet on the A359/10 instead of the 77W, a much more modern big twin and with better economics. I think QF will go All Airbus with time. The 787 will probably be cancelled by QF they have a great opportunity now with the grounding.

AA likes old planes and the 77W will suit them fine in this role.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2013-02-02 01:26:40 and read 8300 times.

Glad to see the 777 picking up more orders  
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):
Well done for "Old technology"

Indeed. Some would have us believe that the 777 is "past it" when the very fact of its massive backlog suggests otherwise. Suffice it to say that I agree with your posts.

Quoting sweair (Reply 21):
AA likes old planes and the 77W will suit them fine in this role.

On what basis do you say that AA "likes old planes"? A quick look at another website suggests that the average age of their fleet is only 15 years with brand new 777s and 737s still to be delivered, as well as orders for both the A320neo and the 737MAX.

[Edited 2013-02-02 02:13:26]

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-02-02 02:48:54 and read 7759 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 21):

AA likes old planes

Define old... AA has tons of newer planes coming, just because they're 737s and 777s and A32Xs doesn't mean they're old.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 02:50:38 and read 7749 times.

Old as built in the 90´s. For airlines that have no prior 777s why not go for the new big twin, the A350?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-02-02 02:58:10 and read 8048 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 24):
For airlines that have no prior 777s why not go for the new big twin, the A350?

Because they want it as soon as possible maybe? Remember the A350 hasn't even flown yet, the 777 is already a proven airframe, so why not?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2013-02-02 03:20:02 and read 7976 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 24):
Old as built in the 90´s.

Of AA's current fleet of 50 777s, 11 were built and made its first flight before 2000. 39 out of 50 - 78% of the fleet - were built post-2000.

Of their 198 strong fleet of 737s, only 25 were built and made its first flight before 2000.

Quoting sweair (Reply 24):
For airlines that have no prior 777s why not go for the new big twin, the A350?

AA have a fleet of 47 777-223ERs in addition to the three recently added 777-323ERs.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-02 06:08:04 and read 6698 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 26):
Of AA's current fleet of 50 777s, 11 were built and made its first flight before 2000. 39 out of 50 - 78% of the fleet - were built post-2000.

Of their 198 strong fleet of 737s, only 25 were built and made its first flight before 2000.

The way this info is presented is a bit confusing, AA had 74 737-800 by the time they stopped deliveries after 9/11. The next 738's didn't srrive until 2008 or 2009.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-02-02 07:38:15 and read 5815 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 23):
Define old... AA has tons of newer planes coming, just because they're 737s and 777s and A32Xs doesn't mean they're old.

He means old as in old technology.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: miaami
Posted 2013-02-02 08:13:05 and read 5468 times.

The 767-300s are going tech quite often and I think thats why they moved up the 787 deliveries. The additional 777-300 orders may help speed up the retirement of the 767-300s or possibly move them onto less critcal routes, ie carribeane flights.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-02-02 08:20:09 and read 5399 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Related, AA just filed with the court that it expect to sell two upcoming deliveries to Guggenheim.

Is that a surprise? They will probably lease them back since they already lease some of their aircraft from Guggenheim.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Is the difference between an option and a 'purchase right' simply that the latter doesn't hold a place in line, or is there more to it? I often see all three referred to in an order—firm, options, and purchase rights.

So the way I understand it is an order is an order, an option is the company's ability to add more to that particular order at that negotiated price, and a purchase option is and additional order that would go to the end of the production line like a new order but at the previously negotiated price. Please correct me if I am off base here.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-02-02 09:34:08 and read 5195 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 26):
Of AA's current fleet of 50 777s, 11 were built and made its first flight before 2000. 39 out of 50 - 78% of the fleet - were built post-2000.

I have to admit this surprises me... AA did have a pretty old fleet. I recall flying on a lot of their Super 80s, and it seems like not that long ago. When did they retire the last of those?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: na
Posted 2013-02-02 09:42:07 and read 5147 times.

Which planes are being replaced by those 77Ws?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: american 767
Posted 2013-02-02 09:47:46 and read 5134 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 29):
The additional 777-300 orders may help speed up the retirement of the 767-300s or possibly move them onto less critcal routes, ie carribeane flights.

Does that mean the additional 77Ws will free up some more 772s to be assigned on routes currently flown with 763 equipment? Because if that is the case then JFK-MIA-JFK might see the 772 again, like it did three years ago or so. And so could JFK-CDG, LAX-DFW, MIA-DFW, BOS-LHR...MIA-GRU could be all 777 20x weekly.

I don't think that the 763s are going anywhere anytime soon, though the oldest one is now 25 years old. The 762s are the ones that are leaving the fleet soon. I think it is safe to say that American will still fly the 763 in the mid 20s.

JFK-SFO-JFK could soon be all 763, 4x daily, until more A321s are delivered.
MIA-ORD will continue to see the 763 for a while, at least seasonably.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-02-02 10:09:33 and read 5026 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 29):
The 767-300s are going tech quite often and I think thats why they moved up the 787 deliveries.

Let's hope that turns out to be a change for the better!  

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 10:30:43 and read 4992 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 28):
He means old as in old technology.

Yes there is no way around that fact, the 77W is 90´s technology the A350-1000 is about 16 years more modern.

I think the 77W is heading for a hard time, a lot harder than Boeing thinks, sort of like the reaction to the A320..

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: incitatus
Posted 2013-02-02 10:55:20 and read 4904 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
Yes there is no way around that fact, the 77W is 90´s technology the A350-1000 is about 16 years more modern.

Problem is the A350-1000 is not here, even though you talk like it is. Project delays and problems with the A380 and the 787 have demonstrated that trying to be ahead of the curve in the way you are advocating is a high risk proposition. Actually, a mistake indeed. Just ask ANA or QF.

When will the A350-1000 be around reliably and in large sufficient numbers? It may be in 2019, or 2025.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 11:07:49 and read 4849 times.

Well if an Airline puts an order today why choose the more than decade old option, the 777-X is about 7 or 8 years away.

Same with A332 vs 788 why order the old option, future proof should matter as well? The EIS of the A350-1000 is 2017?!

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-02 11:09:41 and read 4836 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
Yes there is no way around that fact, the 77W is 90´s technology the A350-1000 is about 16 years more modern.

So how many airlines are expected to take delivery of the A350-1000 this year? There is only one aircraft from A or B newer than the 777 flying in service right now- the A380.

Quoting sweair (Reply 37):
Well if an Airline puts an order today why choose the more than decade old option, the 777-X is about 7 or 8 years away.

Same with A332 vs 788 why order the old option, future proof should matter as well? The EIS of the A350-1000 is 2017?!

Because AA is likely going to get these 5 additional 77W before 2017? And available slots for the A350-1000 are likely closer to 2019 at the earliest than 2017.

[Edited 2013-02-02 11:11:44]

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 11:13:11 and read 4816 times.

Well if you are an airline that need new frames 5 or 6 years from now, most orders are well in advance.. If you have no current 777 in your fleet as well, why order the 77W? The modern choice is the A351 in this case. It will live longer in the market for sure.

How many airlines order a plane 2 or 3 years before its needed?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-02 11:21:36 and read 4810 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
Well if you are an airline that need new frames 5 or 6 years from now, most orders are well in advance..

Why do you think that AA wants these planes 5 or 6 years from now? AA has plans to have 10 77Ws by the end this year (that is about 2/3rd of its current order). Why do you think that they are suddenly going to drag their feet 5 to 6 years waiting for additional 77Ws?

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
If you have no current 777 in your fleet as well, why order the 77W?

AA has 777s in their fleet, over 40. They are one of the top 10 biggest operators of the 777.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
The modern choice is the A351 in this case. It will live longer in the market for sure.

Only if you are willing to wait until ~2018-2019 and have full faith that it won't be delayed or won't miss specs.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
How many airlines order a plane 2 or 3 years before its needed?

Uhhh almost all airlines?

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: sweair
Posted 2013-02-02 11:25:29 and read 4767 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 40):

I wasn't specific about AA, the subject seems to de rail earlier sorry. I was talking in general.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-02-02 11:29:18 and read 4755 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 37):
Well if an Airline puts an order today why choose the more than decade old option, the 777-X is about 7 or 8 years away.

Well if the 777X was on offer airlines would order it, but it not so they cant...

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
Well if you are an airline that need new frames 5 or 6 years from now, most orders are well in advance.. If you have no current 777 in your fleet as well, why order the 77W? The modern choice is the A351 in this case.

Because they can get them faster than the A350-1000, just because its more "modern" Doesnt help in getting them when the airline wants them... the 77W is a proven airframe and if it does what the airline needs it to do then they will order it.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
How many airlines order a plane 2 or 3 years before its needed?

You might be surprised...

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-02-02 13:06:48 and read 4525 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
The modern choice is the A351 in this case. It will live longer in the market for sure.

How many airlines order a plane 2 or 3 years before its needed?

How do can you know that it will live longer in the market? It has not even been completed yet. The B77W has been in the air and I do like to fly it when I can get the chance.

How many airlines have ordered the A350 and there you have your answer.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-02-02 13:12:27 and read 4523 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
Yes there is no way around that fact, the 77W is 90´s technology the A350-1000 is about 16 years more modern.

I guess it never occurred to you that AA needed an aircraft ASAP and couldn't afford to wait around until 2017 or 2018 (whenever the first A350 delivery is scheduled).

Quoting incitatus (Reply 36):
Project delays and problems with the A380 and the 787 have demonstrated that trying to be ahead of the curve in the way you are advocating is a high risk proposition. Actually, a mistake indeed. Just ask ANA or QF.

Another good point. If the A380 and the 788 are any indicator, it could be 2020 before we see the A350 in commercial service. Do you really think AA wants to wait around nearly a decade when they're trying to rebuild themselves from the ground up? Not to mention that after the MD11 debacle, AA is rather risk averse when it comes to ordering paper airplanes.

The 77W is well proven and AA has a bunch of somewhat similar 772s already in fleet. It makes perfect sense for them to order this "ancient technology".

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 42):
Because they can get them faster than the A350-1000, just because its more "modern" Doesnt help in getting them when the airline wants them... the 77W is a proven airframe and if it does what the airline needs it to do then they will order it.

And nothing would stop AA from order A350s at the end of this decade, if that's what they really want.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-02 15:38:50 and read 4171 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 31):
AA did have a pretty old fleet. I recall flying on a lot of their Super 80s, and it seems like not that long ago. When did they retire the last of those?

AA still has around 180 MD-80s in service.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: american 767
Posted 2013-02-02 16:16:37 and read 4077 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
AA had 74 737-800 by the time they stopped deliveries after 9/11.

I think that those will be leaving the fleet as well, by the time the last few Super 80s leave in 2017 or 2018. Don't forget that the oldest 737 is older than the youngest Super 80. The newer ones that were delivered starting in 2009 when the MD-80 retirement began are likely to stay in the fleet for a long time, and so are the ones currently being delivered this year.
I don't think that AA will be 737 free before 2030.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45):
AA still has around 180 MD-80s in service.

The fleet will be down to 150 in a year from now.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: SYDSpotter
Posted 2013-02-02 16:29:48 and read 4031 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 21):
AA likes old planes and the 77W will suit them fine in this role.

Yep, that's why they bought the A320NEO and 737MAX  

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2013-02-03 01:56:57 and read 3534 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
Yes there is no way around that fact, the 77W is 90´s technology

No. The programme that spawned the 777-300ER and 777-200LR was launched in 2000; and the 777-300ER only made its first flight in 2003.

Quoting sweair (Reply 37):
Same with A332 vs 788 why order the old option, future proof should matter as well?

Because the A330-200 is a proven airframe and is the best in its class. Given time, the 787-8 might prove to be as reliable, if not more reliable, than the A330 has proven to be over the years. Airlines can get an A330 much, much sooner than they can get a 787 if they haven't already placed an order.

Quoting sweair (Reply 37):
The EIS of the A350-1000 is 2017?!

He was talking about slot availability. Even if the A350-1000 was to EIS on time in 2017, airlines that haven't already placed an order for one will probably have to wait until after 2020 to get theirs.

Quoting sweair (Reply 39):
If you have no current 777 in your fleet as well, why order the 77W?

AA have a fleet of 47 777-200ERs before placing their order for 777-300ERs.

Even if the airline is not a current 777 operator, the 777-300ER is still the best 300-350 seat long haul twin. If an airline needed that sort of capability now, the 777-300ER is the best bet.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 42):
just because its more "modern" Doesnt help in getting them when the airline wants them... the 77W is a proven airframe and if it does what the airline needs it to do then they will order it.

  

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-03 02:07:47 and read 3487 times.

Quoting american 767 (Reply 46):
I think that those will be leaving the fleet as well, by the time the last few Super 80s leave in 2017 or 2018. Don't forget that the oldest 737 is older than the youngest Super 80. The newer ones that were delivered starting in 2009 when the MD-80 retirement began are likely to stay in the fleet for a long time, and so are the ones currently being delivered this year.
I don't think that AA will be 737 free before 2030.

your looking at age when you should be looking at the engine. CFM56-7B drinks less fuel than the JT8D. Doesn't matter how old the M80 is.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-03 06:20:37 and read 3235 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 48):
If an airline needed that sort of capability now, the 777-300ER is the best bet.

Its not just that the 77W is your best best, it is your only bet considering Airbus no longer makes the A340.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: StickShaker
Posted 2013-02-04 04:36:18 and read 2657 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):Well done for "Old technology" when is Qantas going to pull its head out of the sand or grow a pair and order some?!
What on earth does this have anything do with AA ordering more 77Ws? That said, QF pulled their head out of the sand back when they ordered A330s -- a mixture of 744s and 777s would have left them in a far worse state than the 744/A330 fleet they ended up with. A mixture of A330s, 77Ws, 744s and A380s would probably have been the end of the international division.

QF's refusal to order any version of the 777 (particularly the 77W) is part of the reason the international division is performing so poorly, QF's poor fleet planning is well recognised. They don't have the flexibility or fuel efficiency that is being so successfully deployed by their competitors. 21 years after the debut of the long haul 300 seater (343) QF still dont have a long haul 300 seater or equivalent in their fleet. The 330 does a fine job on regional/domestic ops but thats all.
Could go on but thats for another thread.


Regards,
StickShaker

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-04 04:52:41 and read 2605 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
What on earth does this have anything do with AA ordering more 77Ws? That said, QF pulled their head out of the sand back when they ordered A330s -- a mixture of 744s and 777s would have left them in a far worse state than the 744/A330 fleet they ended up with. A mixture of A330s, 77Ws, 744s and A380s would probably have been the end of the international division.

The Qantas 777 question has been debated to death but does bring an interesting point, why didn't QF get a 300 seat 7500 mile airplane ? If the 744/A330 decision is the "right" one it left one whole, a smaller then 747 plane capable of flying to LAX, SFO, Santiago or J;berg. Why were A340's then never added, it was the same as an A330 and had engines the 737 fleet has so it wouldn't add another type like a 777 would. The flights to Latin America and South Africa could be flown more efficiently with an A340.

Topic: RE: American Orders 5 More B777-300ERs
Username: kaitak744
Posted 2013-02-07 17:18:21 and read 1877 times.

This is probably a conversion of their outstanding order of 5 777-200ERs.
1 new 777-300ER was firmed today, bringing the total to 15 + 5 -200ERs.


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