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Topic: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ordpark
Posted 2013-02-02 20:28:59 and read 10437 times.

Don't post that often, folks, but curious as to how the new terminal for UA and the subsequent move of B6 are coming along?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-03 12:30:36 and read 9478 times.

I'd check the Massport website for details:

http://www.massport.com/logan-airport/Pages/Default.aspx

I don't see any recent news there, but I am pretty sure that the combined UA/CO operation will move to the former American Eagle gates in B2. I am not sure of this though.

B6 however is definitely not going anywhere. (Why do you think Massport did that $62 million dollar renovation and built a new security checkpoint?) B6 will eventually have all of Terminal C to themselves.

Another long-term plan I've heard of is to connect ALL terminals post-security.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-02-03 12:50:34 and read 9386 times.

I believe scheduled opening of the new United concourse is Fall 2013. Construction is ongoing.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-03 14:00:30 and read 9167 times.

It looks like quite a ways until completion. They have removed all the gates from the ex-Eagle area, but no new construction has begun for the actual connector portion.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: EWRkid1990
Posted 2013-02-03 14:39:16 and read 8913 times.

If they're taking the old eagle gates, that means there isn't enough room for more than 5-6 mainline aircraft, seeing as almost all UA stations from BOS are on mainline except for CLE. Maybe they can re-arrange the gate spacings to fit more large aircraft ie. 737-757?

-EWRkid1990

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-03 14:42:20 and read 8870 times.

Quoting EWRkid1990 (Reply 4):

they are supposed to have 8 gates so it will be on the tighter side but it should work.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-03 14:54:25 and read 8763 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 2):
I believe scheduled opening of the new United concourse is Fall 2013. Construction is ongoing.

...In B2?

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):
They have removed all the gates from the ex-Eagle area, but no new construction has begun for the actual connector portion.

Which gates were these, do you remember? I know that AA mainline is B27-B29 and B30-B36.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: mbk1999
Posted 2013-02-03 17:50:56 and read 7875 times.

Perhaps they slowed down the construction timetable to see how the possible AA/US merger unfolds. Also as AA's presence in BOS continues to shrink, gates B27-B29 could become flex gates.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-03 18:21:56 and read 7694 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 6):

Testing my memory, but was it B22-26 for the ex-Eagle gates?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-02-03 18:24:20 and read 7672 times.

I don't know when the Terminal B connector is going to be finished, but B6 will have all of Terminal C to themselves by Spring 2014: http://blog.jetblue.com/index.php/20...rminal-news-for-jetblue-in-boston/

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-03 19:48:00 and read 7241 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 8):
Testing my memory, but was it B22-26 for the ex-Eagle gates?

That sounds right. Wasn't NK there for a while as well? Or is NK over in B1 now?

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
B6 will have all of Terminal C to themselves by Spring 2014:

  

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: icelandair75w
Posted 2013-02-03 19:49:43 and read 7232 times.

They broke ground on the Terminal B project a few months ago and are working on it mostly everyday (pounding the beams into the ground, preparing both the US and AA terminal edges for the connector). Essentially they will be able to use the gates they build and then some of the US gates when not in use.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: tharanga
Posted 2013-02-04 03:28:36 and read 6743 times.

what do the signs on the approach roads, and the signs/recorded messages on the silver line/shuttle, say to explain to UA pax where they should go?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-02-04 04:26:41 and read 6669 times.

United operates in 2 terminals currently: A & C. Operations are separated by destination city. Essentially old CO & old UA. United runs flights to EWR, CLE, & IAH from A and runs flights to IAD, ORD, DEN, SFO, & LAX from C. With the current cross fleeting however, one could arrive at either terminal from any city.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: dwcontroller
Posted 2013-02-04 04:28:02 and read 6661 times.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 12):
what do the signs on the approach roads, and the signs/recorded messages on the silver line/shuttle, say to explain to UA pax where they should go?

Something along the lines of "Terminal A for United Airlines flights serving Cleveland, Houston-Intercontinental and Newark" "Terminal C for United Airlines flights serving Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington-Dulles"

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: bos2laf
Posted 2013-02-04 07:17:04 and read 6452 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 2):

I believe scheduled opening of the new United concourse is Fall 2013. Construction is ongoing.

It was initially going to be Nov-Dec 2013, but the last I heard from a reliable source was "early 2014" with their old gates starting to come online for B6 around March.

This is a Massport construction project after all. Expect it to be behind schedule and over budget.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-02-04 07:31:53 and read 6413 times.

Funny, their last few projects were finished ahead of schedule and under budget.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-04 07:39:53 and read 6380 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 15):
It was initially going to be Nov-Dec 2013, but the last I heard from a reliable source was "early 2014" with their old gates starting to come online for B6 around March.

I'm guessing they are going to cram into A temporarily? Also any update on the United Club in B?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-04 07:47:07 and read 6352 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 15):
This is a Massport construction project after all. Expect it to be behind schedule and over budget.

Why? If it happens it will be fairly unusual if we consider recent Massport projects at Logan. DL's new Terminal A opened ahead of schedule and under budget. The recent terminal B garage project also completed ahead of schedule. The centerfield taxiway was also completed in 2009 ahead of schedule and under budget. I can't find any details about the recent terminal C remodeling project but I suspect it was at least on time and on budget or somehting would have showed up in a google search. I believe the Terminal E expansion was behind schedule and over budget but that was a long time ago and I suspect that they learned a thing or two from that project, which is probably why subsequent projects have been far better managed.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-04 08:52:28 and read 6214 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 10):

Yes, NK would use gate B25 or 26 when Eagle used to handle their ground services. They have since moved over to the US side of Terminal B

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-02-04 09:06:04 and read 6179 times.

Years ago the footprint of the current project was actually slated to become an FIS for AA and US. This is when both carriers had significant Intl Ops, with US to the Caribbean and AA to both Europe and the Caribbean. If 9-11 hadn't happened, this project would have been built. Fast forward to today, and it seems kind of silly doesn't it?

I wonder exactly how many gates AA actually needs in BOS anymore? Eagle is gone, only flights left are to the cornerstones (MIA, DFW, ORD, LAX, and JFK) with LHR even being dropped in favor of BA operating the flight. You would think only B29-B36 would be needed to handle AA ops in that sense. So B25-28 could go to UA, maybe even for RJ's, with the new gates going to them, and possibly a couple of the existing US B gates, mainly B22-24.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-04 11:20:00 and read 6005 times.

This may be helpful as well, it is the massport Terminal B Construction plans.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...6OSkv5nscRIA&bvm=bv.41642243,d.dmg

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-04 21:40:25 and read 5587 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 13):
United operates in 2 terminals currently: A & C. Operations are separated by destination city. Essentially old CO & old UA. United runs flights to EWR, CLE, & IAH from A and runs flights to IAD, ORD, DEN, SFO, & LAX from C. With the current cross fleeting however, one could arrive at either terminal from any city.

jcarv has it correct. Former-CO flights depart out of A, actual UA flights depart out of C.

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 14):
Something along the lines of "Terminal A for United Airlines flights serving Cleveland, Houston-Intercontinental and Newark" "Terminal C for United Airlines flights serving Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington-Dulles"

   This info can also be found on UA's website.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
Also any update on the United Club in B?

What United Club in B?

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 19):
Yes, NK would use gate B25 or 26 when Eagle used to handle their ground services. They have since moved over to the US side of Terminal B

Thanks flyby519. I remember first learning this last March when my motorcoach driver announced airlines by terminal as we approached BOS. I assume that the move was because of the construction? Who handles NK in B1 now? US?

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):
I wonder exactly how many gates AA actually needs in BOS anymore? Eagle is gone, only flights left are to the cornerstones (MIA, DFW, ORD, LAX, and JFK)

Wow, AA really has cut back in BOS!

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):
with LHR even being dropped in favor of BA operating the flight.

Did AA drop LHR?
Don't forget that VS (and DL?) also do LHR.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 21):
This may be helpful as well, it is the massport Terminal B Construction plans.

Thanks for sharing that link.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: tharanga
Posted 2013-02-05 03:33:29 and read 5457 times.

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 14):

Something along the lines of "Terminal A for United Airlines flights serving Cleveland, Houston-Intercontinental and Newark" "Terminal C for United Airlines flights serving Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington-Dulles"

OK, good - the signs list the cities - so they don't count on pax knowing what was CO and what was UA.

I wonder how many pax end up in the wrong place anyway.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-02-05 08:07:42 and read 5292 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 22):

What United Club in B?

Probably the one that is being constructed as part of this project.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 22):

Did AA drop LHR?
Don't forget that VS (and DL?) also do LHR.

I haven't forgotten. I specifically mentioned BA because of One World and the JV. Other carriers on the route are irrelevant. But AA is ending LHR this summer and thus the JV is using BA for all the BOS service. I believe BA is adding a frequency this summer as well.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 23):

I wonder how many pax end up in the wrong place anyway.

I am sure some do so its not really a big deal. If the Pax end up in the wrong place by mistake, Massport runs a shuttle bus serving all terminals that a Passenger could use.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 22):

Thanks flyby519. I remember first learning this last March when my motorcoach driver announced airlines by terminal as we approached BOS. I assume that the move was because of the construction? Who handles NK in B1 now? US?

It is US now. I would expect NK to move to A to be handled by DL after the Terminal B project is finished.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-02-05 08:28:33 and read 5388 times.

In the early to mid 80's, Northwest (Orient) flew out of the former Eagle gates in B. (This was prior to NW moving to E).

At the time, NW often had two 747's at the gates, one for LGW and one for SNN. They Leo had daily DC-10's to MSP, DTW, IAD, and a couple others.

So with a bit of reshuffling, those gates can certainly handle large mainline aircraft. Seeing that Massport is building out the footprint, it won't be difficult to create space for 7-10 mainline gates.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ScottB
Posted 2013-02-05 09:27:11 and read 5310 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 25):
In the early to mid 80's, Northwest (Orient) flew out of the former Eagle gates in B.

In the late 1980's, before they consolidated into the old Terminal A with EA, CO used those gates along with PA. So to some degree this is a return to that corner for the airport for that piece of UA.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: RobertS975
Posted 2013-02-05 14:33:24 and read 5217 times.

OK, assuming UA vacates their gates at Terminal A, who gets to use those? Does DL have any interest in reclaiming them, maybe restarting some the point to point service to Florida, LAS, LAX that it once had?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: NWBOS
Posted 2013-02-06 08:28:43 and read 4828 times.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 27):
OK, assuming UA vacates their gates at Terminal A, who gets to use those? Does DL have any interest in reclaiming them, maybe restarting some the point to point service to Florida, LAS, LAX that it once had?

Unless it is being kept secret, there hasn't been any information like that communicated to us on the frontline. We have been told that Massport will probably put someone else into that space. I hope I'm wrong and we do see more expansion.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-02-06 09:18:22 and read 4737 times.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 27):
OK, assuming UA vacates their gates at Terminal A, who gets to use those? Does DL have any interest in reclaiming them, maybe restarting some the point to point service to Florida, LAS, LAX that it once had?

I am not sure who can really go into those spots. WN is pretty secure with where they are at....only thing I could possibly see is with the other part of the project linked on the sterile side that WN ends up with the existing UA ticket counters. Unless B6 is going to get those gates as well, and then with E being linked you eliminate the need for a tow job. So WN is one possibility, but I don't see it immediately.

All the other legacies are locked up in B, so that won't happen either. Air Canada will stay put with a star alliance thing. VX is likely staying put. The only thing I could possibly see would be for NK to move and be handled by Delta, which would make sense.

One Wildcard could be for a company like WestJet to start BOS service. They would need gate space and since most of their flights would be precleared, they could use Terminal A in theory.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: icelandair75w
Posted 2013-02-06 11:21:51 and read 4624 times.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 27):

OK, assuming UA vacates their gates at Terminal A, who gets to use those? Does DL have any interest in reclaiming them, maybe restarting some the point to point service to Florida, LAS, LAX that it once had?

Rumours in the grapevine say that WN will move to the pm-UA gates at Terminal A, giving jetBlue the opportunity to take the E1A-E1E gates as well. This makes sense, with the plans of a connector between Terminal C/E1A-E1E gates post-security. According to the construction plan linked above somewhere they said that this will not be linked post-security (as of now) however this could be a future plan.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-06 11:37:41 and read 4579 times.

Quoting icelandair75w (Reply 30):
Rumours in the grapevine say that WN will move to the pm-UA gates at Terminal A, giving jetBlue the opportunity to take the E1A-E1E gates as well. This makes sense, with the plans of a connector between Terminal C/E1A-E1E gates post-security. According to the construction plan linked above somewhere they said that this will not be linked post-security (as of now) however this could be a future plan.

Ive heard this as well.

Has anyone heard of plans to build a connector between Terminal B and C? Through the area between AA/VX and B6 where they have that long hallway with the rocking chairs and the view of the ramp.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-06 12:29:43 and read 4503 times.

I don't understand why BOS doesn't build a post-security people mover linking all terminals (like DFW), and be done with all this construction once and for all. They would do themselves, the passengers and the airlines a huge favor.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyby519
Posted 2013-02-06 12:40:50 and read 4472 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
I don't understand why BOS doesn't build a post-security people mover linking all terminals (like DFW), and be done with all this construction once and for all. They would do themselves, the passengers and the airlines a huge favor.

Thats what I thought the ultimate plan was going to be from rumors ive heard, but havent seen any plans published to confirm it.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-02-06 12:54:09 and read 4453 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
I don't understand why BOS doesn't build a post-security people mover linking all terminals (like DFW), and be done with all this construction once and for all. They would do themselves, the passengers and the airlines a huge favor.

Why? Boston is an O&D city, not a connecting hub like DFW is.

Yes, there are some connecting interline passengers that would have to go through security twice, but is the number sufficient to build what would likely be a billion-dollar project? I doubt it. The common interline transfers are between Delta and Air France/Alitalia, which is a 5-7 minute walk, JetBlue to American which again is a 5-7 minute walk, United to US Airways (which will be behind the same security checkpoint) and JetBlue to some of their international partners (which will be behind the same security checkpoint eventually). I doubt there's going to be a ton of AA-BA interline activity, given that LAX, JFK, ORD, DFW and MIA (the only cities AA has left out of BOS) all have multiple frequencies between BA/AA to Heathrow as it is.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: dalmd88
Posted 2013-02-06 13:24:10 and read 4389 times.

I think they screwed up when they did the landside road improvements. They should have done a consolidated rental car center and connected all the terminals and the T station with a people mover system to eliminate a ton of bus traffic.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: NWBOS
Posted 2013-02-06 13:45:57 and read 4355 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 33):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
I don't understand why BOS doesn't build a post-security people mover linking all terminals (like DFW), and be done with all this construction once and for all. They would do themselves, the passengers and the airlines a huge favor.

Thats what I thought the ultimate plan was going to be from rumors ive heard, but havent seen any plans published to confirm it.

For many years, I've heard the popular rumor in BOS that Massport did want to build one, but the airlines didn't want to pay for it.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-06 15:57:37 and read 4237 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 34):

Why? Boston is an O&D city, not a connecting hub like DFW is.

Yes, there are some connecting interline passengers that would have to go through security twice, but is the number sufficient to build what would likely be a billion-dollar project?

Yes if it made BOS a more attractive international gateway and brought more airlines and more passengers in. Yes, BOS is predominantly O&D for the domestic carriers but it's already a significant international gateway with a lot of intl-domestic connections. I've heard that on some days as much as 30% of LH traffic is connecting traffic for example. A lot most likely from US and UA flights. If every international carrier has similar numbers, that's nothing to sneeze at. Now we're hearing that the reason for the C-E post-security connector is because of the B6-JL transfers. Another example of intl/domestic connections. You can't tell me that AA is not feeding passengers to JL too, or to BA, or to IB, and that DL is not feeding passengers to AF. Also, this patchwork of terminal projects are very costly in the long run as Massport can't predict the future of the domestic airline landscape. What if JL stops flying to BOS? All of sudden there's no need for that connector anymore. But if there was a people mover connecting ALL terminals then it wouldn't matter because it would serve all airlines and all connecting passengers.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 36):
For many years, I've heard the popular rumor in BOS that Massport did want to build one, but the airlines didn't want to pay for it.

There was a landside monorail that was planned as part of the old "Logan 2000" renovation project. But as things got delayed and over budget it was scraped. It was supposed to link all terminals with the T station. I never heard about a post-security connector tho.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-02-06 16:18:26 and read 4185 times.

Local media in Dallas is reporting the AA/US merger will be voted on by the board next week, there's a thread covering that news, that will start another round of gate juggling Nationwide. My guess would be AA would move their BOS operations to the US side of B.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: bos2laf
Posted 2013-02-06 16:59:06 and read 4110 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
I'm guessing they are going to cram into A temporarily? Also any update on the United Club in B?

No, they would remain a split operation until the new gates are complete in B. I was originally hearing that UA would vacate C around December, but now that looks to be pushed back a month or two.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ORDBOSEWR
Posted 2013-02-06 17:07:34 and read 4085 times.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 33):
Thats what I thought the ultimate plan was going to be from rumors ive heard, but havent seen any plans published to confirm it.

I am not a big fan of the people movers. There are good implementations and bad ones. If it is done like EWR then it would be a huge failure. I mean EWR or ORD (two airports that have people movers that I have lived in) are awful. Now I know people will say those are pre-security and it is different, I will say yes but not really that much different.

Heck, here are EWR they are now saying how they will replace the airtrain because it can't support the volume of traffic it has too.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: adamh8297
Posted 2013-02-06 17:31:18 and read 4008 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
Now we're hearing that the reason for the C-E post-security connector is because of the B6-JL transfers.

Not the only reason!

For B6 international interline transfers you also have
LH EI FI VS +
Hopefully soon EK TK +
Maybe someday QR CA KE JJ/LA

LH and JL do put their code on B6 flights from BOS and EK will too if they come.

The potential is pretty big for B6 to feed a lot of international traffic out of BOS as they now do in JFK.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-06 18:09:32 and read 3956 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 39):

No, they would remain a split operation until the new gates are complete in B. I was originally hearing that UA would vacate C around December, but now that looks to be pushed back a month or two.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant is there any plans for a new UA club in B when the construction is done?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: cloudboy
Posted 2013-02-06 18:39:07 and read 3921 times.

There are always all sorts of rumors about gate changes in Boston. I think much of this is based in various scenarios the planners have about "what-if's". Right now I think there are too many changes likely to come about in the next several months for them to really commit to anything. That I think is one of the reasons they are dragging their feet - it seems every time they make a change, something new and unexpected comes along that makes that change the wrong one.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-06 21:11:01 and read 3746 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 24):
Probably the one that is being constructed as part of this project.

I wasn't aware of this but I suspect you're right.

Quoting apodino (Reply 24):
I specifically mentioned BA because of One World

Ah, I see.  
Quoting apodino (Reply 24):
I wonder how many pax end up in the wrong place anyway.

I am sure some do so its not really a big deal. If the Pax end up in the wrong place by mistake, Massport runs a shuttle bus serving all terminals that a Passenger could use.

I think a good number of pax probably do, and I blame it all on the merger.   But like apodino said, taking Massport's shuttle bus from terminal to terminal is not that difficult.

Quoting apodino (Reply 24):
It is US now. I would expect NK to move to A to be handled by DL after the Terminal B project is finished.

Interesting to know.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 25):
This was prior to NW moving to E

I never knew NW was ever in E (except for international arrivals). I always thought they were in A.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 27):
OK, assuming UA vacates their gates at Terminal A, who gets to use those? Does DL have any interest in reclaiming them
Quoting NWBOS (Reply 28):
We have been told that Massport will probably put someone else into that space.

How many gates did CO have in A? (and which ones?)

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
So WN is one possibility, but I don't see it immediately.

Definite possibility indeed.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
Air Canada will stay put with a star alliance thing. VX is likely staying put.

Remember that these airlines (AC and VX) also have their own group of gates in Terminal B. (With separate security checkpoints and are not connected to the rest of the terminal.) AC has gates B1, B2, and B3 in Terminal B1, and VX has gates B37 and B38 in Terminal B2.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
The only thing I could possibly see would be for NK to move and be handled by Delta, which would make sense.

How do you mean? So US can have more space?

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
They would need gate space and since most of their flights would be precleared, they could use Terminal A in theory.

Yes, in fact I don't think there are any AC flights into BOS that aren't precleared?

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 31):
Ive heard this as well.

Yes, didn't B6 take over FL's old gates as well? (C40-C42)

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 31):
Has anyone heard of plans to build a connector between Terminal B and C?

I believe that Massport's long-term plan is to connect ALL terminals post-security.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 33):
Thats what I thought the ultimate plan was going to be from rumors ive heard, but havent seen any plans published to confirm it.

Then why bother with connecting the terminals via walkways?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
There was a landside monorail that was planned as part of the old "Logan 2000" renovation project.

Why would they need that if they already have shuttle buses?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
My guess would be AA would move their BOS operations to the US side of B.

Is there room for AA over there?

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 40):
I am not a big fan of the people movers. There are good implementations and bad ones. If it is done like EWR then it would be a huge failure. I mean EWR or ORD (two airports that have people movers that I have lived in) are awful.

How do you mean?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-02-06 21:28:16 and read 3743 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 34):
Why? Boston is an O&D city, not a connecting hub like DFW is.

I've read here on a.net that BOS is the second largest connection point for interline traffic. It does see a lot of it, especially on B6.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
Local media in Dallas is reporting the AA/US merger will be voted on by the board next week, there's a thread covering that news, that will start another round of gate juggling Nationwide. My guess would be AA would move their BOS operations to the US side of B.

That's a safe guess, the connector between both sides of Terminal B should be built by the time the merger is complete (if it does happen) and US's prop jet service would stay at their gates.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 40):
I mean EWR or ORD (two airports that have people movers that I have lived in) are awful.

You've lived in people movers?    

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-02-06 21:41:00 and read 3722 times.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 45):
I've read here on a.net that BOS is the second largest connection point for interline traffic. It does see a lot of it, especially on B6.

And with the C-E connector being built, that would address most of that interline traffic. Given that AA and UA fly only to their hubs, and every spoke Delta has out of Boston has convenient options via JFK/ATL, that leaves JetBlue (who would be primarily interlining to the internationals and would have their hassle-free connections once C-E is built) and PenAir, who does not have the traffic to even consider running an airside shuttle to C/E, let alone a SkyTrain that would cost an exorbitant amount more.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-02-06 23:29:56 and read 3666 times.

Quoting dalmd88 (Reply 35):
I think they screwed up when they did the landside road improvements. They should have done a consolidated rental car center and connected all the terminals and the T station with a people mover system to eliminate a ton of bus traffic.
Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):

There was a landside monorail that was planned as part of the old "Logan 2000" renovation project. But as things got delayed and over budget it was scraped. It was supposed to link all terminals with the T station. I never heard about a post-security connector tho.

IMO that should still be built. Since the new Blue Line station was constructed the Massport Shuttle Bus has to take a longer route to get to the new station than before, which makes the Blue Line less attractive. Linking it to the consolidated rental car should be another priority. This would get a lot of the courtesy bus traffic off the roads, which has lead to a lot of curbside congestion (Particularly in Terminal B, which this project is still not addressing.) If you link it to the boat dock, it will really help a lot.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 40):

I am not a big fan of the people movers. There are good implementations and bad ones. If it is done like EWR then it would be a huge failure. I mean EWR or ORD (two airports that have people movers that I have lived in) are awful. Now I know people will say those are pre-security and it is different, I will say yes but not really that much different.

ORD isn't so bad. It is necessary because connecting PAX have to get from T5 to the other terminals. The only flaw with ORD is that it should be linked to a consolidated car rental facility, which I believe ORD still does not have.

EWR is one that was built with not enough capacity. Had it been done like JFK it would be awesome. But between the car rental traffic, and the train station, it has a lot of PAX thats for sure.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-07 05:30:20 and read 3557 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 44):
Why would they need that if they already have shuttle buses?

That was planned in a time when there was a lot of money but there are benefits. One of the biggest problems at Logan is roadway congestion. The central rental car facility being built should alleviate some of that. Another benefit is loading and unloading of passengers and luggage on buses is more difficult and time consuming because the bus floor is not at the curb level. Yet another problem is that buses are irregular and people have to pay attention so they don't get on the wrong bus. With a people mover you just get in and wait for your stop. There's not wrong car to get into.

And last but not least the capital investment costs are not as high as some people think. On average it's about $130 million per mile. The recently opened 1.5 mile people mover at MIA cost $270 million. That's about what it would cost to put one in BOS. Yes it's expensive but not the "billion dollar" investment that some people imagine.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 46):
And with the C-E connector being built, that would address most of that interline traffic.

It doesn't. DL-AF, US-LH, AA-BA, do a lot of connecting at BOS. And with AA dropping their LHR flights and US joining OW there will be even more passengers trotting over to terminal E. There's a reason why Massport is spending money to link ALL terminals post-security. My suggestion was that they should have built a people mover instead of making the passengers walk. Althought a glass enclosed "catwalk" with moving walkways above the terminals would be really cool, but that's not what they're doing either 

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ORDBOSEWR
Posted 2013-02-07 06:05:34 and read 3536 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 47):
ORD isn't so bad.

I lived in Chicago for over 15 years and I can say yes it is. Most locals only know it because of going to long-term parking.
Have you ever been on this during the afternoon when all of the international flights arrive into T-5 and most to all the passengers are connecting to domestic flights?
The only reason it does not have a horrible reputation is because much of the traffic originates in asia and they are used to getting pushed into the cars (yes, that is how it is in S. Korea and Japan). I have been on trains going from T1 to long-term parking where people get on going that direction just to go to terminal 1 because they can at least get on.
I have seen it so bad that they close the escalators to get up to the tram. It is awful. There is no excuse for this.
Yes, it is for a specific time of day and then it could go under utilized the remainder of the day, but that does not excuse the mess that it is for that period of time.
I mean go and look at the thread that shows the international fligths for summer 2013 and I bet you can figure out when these times are.
I have connected from NRT to BOS via ORD and it was an awful experience on the connection. I now would choose to do that connection anywhere else, it is too hard and too easy to misconnect because of this. I now connect via SFO if I have too.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ORDPARK
Posted 2013-02-07 06:39:15 and read 3490 times.

Thanks for all the info folks...greatly appreciated...

I remember when Terminal C was brand new...My first job at Logan, back in the day, was with Executive Airlines, than Air New England, tucked into the corners of Terminal C...nobody even dreamed of Jetblue! ......UA, TW, NE (soon to be DL) with AC using a gate in what is now the UA terminal....

I have lot's of great memories of Logan and love to see how she is transforming...

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: apodino
Posted 2013-02-07 11:43:33 and read 3299 times.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 49):

I lived in Chicago for over 15 years and I can say yes it is. Most locals only know it because of going to long-term parking.
Have you ever been on this during the afternoon when all of the international flights arrive into T-5 and most to all the passengers are connecting to domestic flights?
The only reason it does not have a horrible reputation is because much of the traffic originates in asia and they are used to getting pushed into the cars (yes, that is how it is in S. Korea and Japan). I have been on trains going from T1 to long-term parking where people get on going that direction just to go to terminal 1 because they can at least get on.
I have seen it so bad that they close the escalators to get up to the tram. It is awful. There is no excuse for this.
Yes, it is for a specific time of day and then it could go under utilized the remainder of the day, but that does not excuse the mess that it is for that period of time.
I mean go and look at the thread that shows the international fligths for summer 2013 and I bet you can figure out when these times are.
I have connected from NRT to BOS via ORD and it was an awful experience on the connection. I now would choose to do that connection anywhere else, it is too hard and too easy to misconnect because of this. I now connect via SFO if I have too.

Your point is well taken, but you can expand the train length or shorten the headway to help alleviate the problem. I think the bigger problem with the ORD connection is the fact that you end up stuck in a TSA line after you get off, which is not fun. Now that T2 sees very little checkpoint traffic outside of DL, US and AC, I almost recommend using that checkpoint instead of the T1, even if you are connecting to UA. Much easier that way. In other airports in this country (ATL, DTW, MSP, IAD all come to mind), there is a checkpoint past the customs hall for only international connecting passengers. This is much easier than having to share a checkpoint with the O and D crowd (Which is the case in BOS, ORD, PHL, LAX among other places), and makes connections much easier.

Quoting ORDPARK (Reply 50):
Thanks for all the info folks...greatly appreciated...

I remember when Terminal C was brand new...My first job at Logan, back in the day, was with Executive Airlines, than Air New England, tucked into the corners of Terminal C...nobody even dreamed of Jetblue! ......UA, TW, NE (soon to be DL) with AC using a gate in what is now the UA terminal....

I have lot's of great memories of Logan and love to see how she is transforming...

I grew up in BOS so it still holds a place in my heart. I remember the days as a kid going down and watching the planes from either the Terminal B garage or the 17th floor of the control tower. I still remember NW with five international arrivals a day, plus the 747's of Virgin, British Airways, Air France, Swissair, Aer Lingus, plus the A310s of TAP and Sabena, and Alitalia bringing in a 767. Not to mention seeing Pan Am every hour, all the USAir planes, TWA with L1011's, DL with a big operation, UA with 757's and 727's, etc. The good ole days.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-02-07 14:22:07 and read 3245 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 44):

I believe there is enough room with the current schedules for a combined US/AA operating in the US pier. Maybe a lot of towing from hardstands for morning push but otherwise, all should fit. Several unused gates throughout day.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: bizjet
Posted 2013-02-07 15:33:50 and read 3188 times.

Obviously, the speculation of AA/US is silly, but AA did recently invest in a renovated Admirals Club and other improvements to its side of B.

I wouldn't be shocked to see a merged AA/US end up on the current AA side with the extension that is now underway, while UA would move into the US side.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-07 17:15:59 and read 3092 times.

Quoting bizjet (Reply 53):
I wouldn't be shocked to see a merged AA/US end up on the current AA side with the extension that is now underway, while UA would move into the US side.

I don't think there is enough room for a combined AA/US on the the current AA side. US would need a lot more than the 8 gates being allocated to UA. Remember that US is the second larest airline at BOS after B6. If anything AA and UA would swap sides in B so that AA will be next to US, and with having both terminals connected, all checking counters for the combined AA/US could be on the current US side of B.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: zrs70
Posted 2013-02-07 17:27:22 and read 3081 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 52):
I grew up in BOS so it still holds a place in my heart. I remember the days as a kid going down and watching the planes from either the Terminal B garage or the 17th floor of the control tower. I still remember NW with five international arrivals a day, plus the 747's of Virgin, British Airways, Air France, Swissair, Aer Lingus, plus the A310s of TAP and Sabena, and Alitalia bringing in a 767. Not to mention seeing Pan Am every hour, all the USAir planes, TWA with L1011's, DL with a big operation, UA with 757's and 727's, etc. The good ole days.

The good old days also included the graceful Eastern Terminal proudly welcoming travelers. It was the only terminal that was truly visible from a distance.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: ORDBOSEWR
Posted 2013-02-07 20:23:44 and read 2953 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 51):
Your point is well taken, but you can expand the train length or shorten the headway to help alleviate the problem.

I am not certain, but if they try to add train lengths won't they have problems with the size of train stops.
I mean when I lived in Chicago I lived through the Brown Line expansion while I was commuting to our office in the Sears Tower (no, I will not call it by the name it goes by now!). The Brown Line could only take trains up to 6 cars in length they spent alot of money to retrofit most stations to take 8 car trains. It was painful and in the mornings did not solve all the crowding problems.
My point is that adding to the length of the train is easy if they have a train stop that can do it. Unfortunately at EWR and ORD they don't so they would have to build longer stations at that point you should re-evaluate it all.
Now they probably could add to the number of trains and reduce the separation between trains on the tracks but I am guessing that would mean some upgrades to the track to allow that with senors, etc. It would probably be the least invasive, but one never knows.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2013-02-07 23:30:09 and read 2882 times.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 48):
One of the biggest problems at Logan is roadway congestion.

I can understand that.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 48):
Yet another problem is that buses are irregular and people have to pay attention so they don't get on the wrong bus.

I thought it was pretty obvious. There are signs on the arrivals level clearly marked "Scheduled Buses," "Rental Car Shuttles," "Parking Shuttles," etc. I thought the vehicles were pretty well branded, too.


Quoting airbazar (Reply 48):
The recently opened 1.5 mile people mover at MIA cost $270 million. That's about what it would cost to put one in BOS.

I think that's completely unnecessary.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 52):
I believe there is enough room with the current schedules for a combined US/AA operating in the US pier. Maybe a lot of towing from hardstands for morning push but otherwise, all should fit. Several unused gates throughout day.

Interesting to know. I recall there's that whole separate wing (gates B15-B21) for the Shuttle.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-02-14 06:45:13 and read 2559 times.

Okay now that the US/AA merger is official what is the speculation about potential BOS moves?

Will the plan for UA to move to the former AE gates go forward? Would the US flights move to AA's side, or vice versa?

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-14 06:59:05 and read 2543 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 58):
Will the plan for UA to move to the former AE gates go forward? Would the US flights move to AA's side, or vice versa?

If I were Massport the first thing I'd do is shelve the terminal B work immediately. Just move AA to the US side and move UA/CO/AC to the AA side.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: jcarv
Posted 2013-02-14 12:20:56 and read 2341 times.

Massport is committed to this project now so it must go forward. Steel frame starting to be erected in very near future.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: deltacto
Posted 2013-02-14 12:30:58 and read 2327 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 55):
The good old days also included the graceful Eastern Terminal proudly welcoming travelers. It was the only terminal that was truly visible from a distance.

It sure was!

Good pics in this thread

Eastern Airlines In BOS (by zrs70 Nov 29 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: flyua
Posted 2013-02-15 01:50:08 and read 2048 times.

I'm sure this is easier said than done, but with a US/AA merger now moving forward, could UA and US/AA swap gates in the Terminal B - Pier A expansion plans, with UA taking AA's current gates B30-B38 and AA taking the new B22-B29? That way, US/AA would be somewhat more connected.

Topic: RE: BOS Terminal Realignment
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-15 06:28:38 and read 1873 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 60):
Massport is committed to this project now so it must go forward. Steel frame starting to be erected in very near future.

Too bad. They still should at the very least swap AA with UA

Quoting flyua (Reply 62):
I'm sure this is easier said than done, but with a US/AA merger now moving forward, could UA and US/AA swap gates in the Terminal B - Pier A expansion plans, with UA taking AA's current gates B30-B38 and AA taking the new B22-B29? That way, US/AA would be somewhat more connected.

I'm sure they will. Either that or what I said above: AA to move to US-B, and UA/AC to move to AA-B. Even though both sides are called "B", they are 2 seperate terminals. It makes no sense for the new AA to have split checkin/baggage operations, dual lounges, and a few other things.


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