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Topic: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-07 01:12:25 and read 11617 times.

Turkish Airlines is looking for 150 new aircraft. The French Minister of Foreign Trade visited Turkey last month and they are negotiating a big Airbus order. Somewhere else I read that even Merkel is going to visit Turkey soon.

Anyway, some actual numbers popped up for the first time. The order would look like:

- 125 A320
- 15 A350
- 6 to 10 A380

A final decision is expected to be made this year.

http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...ons-en-turquie-ministre-528753.php (French only)

[Edited 2013-02-07 01:12:49]

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Yakamoz
Posted 2013-02-07 01:21:34 and read 11581 times.

Topic exists:


Turkish Airlines Considering 150 Airbus' (by Chiad Jan 11 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-07 01:58:22 and read 11356 times.

I see. But that thread is already archived, I cannot reply to it anymore.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-02-07 01:59:44 and read 11356 times.

Quoting Yakamoz (Reply 1):
Topic exists:

True, but this is some actual information about numbers, and not least, air-framer.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

- 125 A320
- 15 A350
- 6 to 10 A380

Wow .. what an order if true.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: fcogafa
Posted 2013-02-07 02:21:48 and read 11227 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Turkish Airlines is looking for 150 new aircraft. The French Minister of Foreign Trade visited Turkey last month and they are negotiating a big Airbus order. Somewhere else I read that even Merkel is going to visit Turkey soon.

Sounds all very political. Do Turkey still want to join the EU? This must be the 'significant customer' talked of recently.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: na
Posted 2013-02-07 02:33:34 and read 11152 times.

So that means the whole 737-fleet will be replaced by A320 (Neos, most likely).

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2013-02-07 03:15:41 and read 10948 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Anyway, some actual numbers popped up for the first time. The order would look like:

- 125 A320
- 15 A350
- 6 to 10 A380

Throw in another half dozen A380's and that should be enough for candidate membership of the EU  

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: chiad
Posted 2013-02-07 03:26:04 and read 10878 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 6):
Throw in another half dozen A380's and that should be enough for candidate membership of the EU

LOL
 

Anyway ... with the expected firming and announcing of Air France, American Airlines and Lion Air orders, Airbus' order-book for 2013 looks very promising.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-07 03:46:55 and read 10759 times.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 4):
Sounds all very political. Do Turkey still want to join the EU? This must be the 'significant customer' talked of recently.

The fleet is expected to grow to around 350 in the next 10 years from 200, so they must order from somewhere. It is not like there are dozens of suppliers. And I am sure a Boeing order will follow shortly.

Quoting na (Reply 5):

So that means the whole 737-fleet will be replaced by A320 (Neos, most likely).

Not really. They still have some 738 on order to be delivered in 2013/2014. The total number of 737 family is 85, and 320 family is 73 so I am sure we will see this order replace some older frames from both producers and allow for quite a bit of net growth.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 6):
Throw in another half dozen A380's and that should be enough for candidate membership of the EU

Turkey is already a candidate, holding negotiations since 2005 AFAIK. If you mean membership, I don't think Turkey is in such a hurry to get there anymore... Only relaxing of visa regulations, which might be sooner than later.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Northstar80
Posted 2013-02-07 05:24:18 and read 10381 times.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 4):
Sounds all very political. Do Turkey still want to join the EU? This must be the 'significant customer' talked of recently.

What is political about this? They are the fastest growing airline and became one of the largest in the world - you cant achieve this by placing political orders!

I dont think Turkey still really wants to join EU. If anything, with the current economic growth and wealth of Turkey, it is much more possible that EU wants to join Turkey      

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: fcogafa
Posted 2013-02-07 06:15:51 and read 10193 times.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 9):
What is political about this? They are the fastest growing airline and became one of the largest in the world - you cant achieve this by placing political orders!

The fact that the French foreign minister of trade seems to be involved?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: rwsea
Posted 2013-02-07 07:04:50 and read 9949 times.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 4):
Sounds all very political. Do Turkey still want to join the EU? This must be the 'significant customer' talked of recently.

Did AA's recent order of 200+ Airbus aircraft indicate that the US is planning to join the EU?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: DALCE
Posted 2013-02-07 07:07:40 and read 9938 times.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 11):

Did AA's recent order of 200+ Airbus aircraft indicate that the US is planning to join the EU?

Where is the 'like' button 

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: gokmengs
Posted 2013-02-07 07:33:43 and read 9797 times.

When I saw the thread title I wondered the Over/Under on how many posts it would take for "politics" to become a part of it. Needles to say should have taken the under 
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 4):
Sounds all very political. Do Turkey still want to join the EU? This must be the 'significant customer' talked of recently.
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 10):
The fact that the French foreign minister of trade seems to be involved?

As someone following Turkish aviation and TK for years, every time I see this argument comes up, I find everyone so black and white about the topic.
TK is not just buying planes to satisfy EU or US, TK is growing for the last decade and I am amazed how under the radar they are for some around here. Having said that like every major and I want to underline this again - MAJOR- purchase A and B will use everything they have in their arsenal to get the order.
Forget about the lobbyist etc, in todays economy and job crisis for both EU and US don't you think politicians know every order means a job saved or added? Of course they will try to pressure to get the order.
This is advertised here as if it only happens to TK.

One could argue that TK fleet is nicely spread out, and I will guarantee politics plays a role in it, but not to a point it puts TK at a disadvantage. TK today has a vast network and they are growing it almost every week.
Even if there was zero politics TK would not be a single supplier company.

As for the rumored order I am a little surprised since I was only expecting narrow body a/c. I don't know if TK will order the A350 now after placing the 332/333/777W order. As for the 380 I know they need a new airport for it, but think about it an A380 order placed today will probably mean delivery in 3 years am I correct? The new airport won't be ready then IIRC so I say no go on the 380 rumor.
I believe TK's only real limitation is IST and they are about to solve that during new airport construction by eliminating the Turkish Air Force space, that will free up a lot of space and will help when all the ordered planes join the fleet.
Super exciting times for TK, and Turkish aviation followers.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-02-07 08:00:51 and read 9688 times.

TK should order both NEOs and MAXs, 350s, 380s delivery from 2017 on..
20 x 319s
40 x 321s
30 x 350s
10 x 380s
75 X 737MAX.

( I keep changing the numbers; why not it is fun; but if no 380, bring more 77Xs)

It is not rocket science; order both A and B, have them lower unit price, come up with better delivery slots.
"Political"...who cares?
Although this is no where close to the USAF tanker choice, I even get a bottle of something from the vendor when I put in an order.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Turkish350XWB
Posted 2013-02-07 12:39:08 and read 7982 times.

If they eliminate the Air Force space, how many more TK planes could IST digest then?

We know the terminal operatos much beyond its limit. But what is the runway limit? Can we expect IST to overtake FRA and CDG before the third airport opens?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: leftyboarder
Posted 2013-02-07 13:27:18 and read 7402 times.

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 15):
If they eliminate the Air Force space, how many more TK planes could IST digest then?

Check this map out: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ye%C5%9Filk%C3%B6y,+Ye%C5%9Filk%C3%B6y+Mh.,+Bak%C4%B1rk%C3%B6y%2FIstanbul+Province,+Turkey&hl=tr&ie=UTF8&ll=40.975103,28.821688&spn=0.035058,0.077162&sll=41.16733,32.570488&sspn=0.017478,0.038581&oq=ye%C5%9Filk%C3%B6y+i&t=h&hq=Ye%C5%9Filk%C3%B6y,&hnear=Ye%C5%9Filk%C3%B6y+Mh.,+Bak%C4%B1rk%C3%B6y%2F%C4%B0stanbul,+T%C3%BCrkiye&z=14

I'd say a lot of planes could go to that TAF area (the area surrounded by the south runway and the perimeter roads).

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-02-07 13:44:32 and read 7176 times.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 9):
What is political about this?
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 10):
The fact that the French foreign minister of trade seems to be involved?

That's like the US sending the Secretary of Commerce for a Boeing signing.

Maybe if TK doubled their Airbus order, they could get someone higher up the EU Org Chart. Lion Air was able to get President Obama by ordering 230 737NGs and -MAXs.   

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-02-07 14:43:38 and read 6565 times.

Does anyone know why Boeing isn't in the running for this? I mean they seem very pleased with the 77W and 738/9.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-02-07 14:50:40 and read 6482 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 18):
Does anyone know why Boeing isn't in the running for this?

I bet they are.
TK still has orders for 15 x 738, 6 x 739 and 20 x 77W.
At this point it will be all about pricing, availability and delivery slots.
But in the past, TK said 787 is too small for them.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-02-07 14:57:49 and read 6431 times.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 19):
But in the past, TK said 787 is too small for them.

Then why do they operate the A330-200 and A330-300, which are similar in size to the 787-8 and 787-9?  

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: airlinebuilder
Posted 2013-02-07 15:05:06 and read 6340 times.

so this is the end for a potential B748i then?

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Turkish350XWB
Posted 2013-02-07 16:05:26 and read 5903 times.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 16):

Thanks, even though i know that map. My question was meant like: what would be the max fleet size of TK at IST that is possible.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Maybe if TK doubled their Airbus order, they could get someone higher up the EU Org Chart. Lion Air was able to get President Obama by ordering 230 737NGs and -MAXs

Nobody takes EU politicians seriously, they shall stay where they are.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 19):
But in the past, TK said 787 is too small for them.

Maybe to small to operate at IST because of limited capacity. But for higher frequencies on longhaul they may change their opinion.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: TK739ER
Posted 2013-02-07 22:27:00 and read 4070 times.

IIRC same TK (same management) in a 2004 or 2005 evaluation said "777 is old technology" Today they can't get enough of them. An unexpected 788 or -9 order would not be too surprising for me in the next few months.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-02-08 00:50:06 and read 3229 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Then why do they operate the A330-200 and A330-300, which are similar in size to the 787-8 and 787-9?

Good question. It's all about delivery slots and pricing I guess.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: LifelinerOne
Posted 2013-02-08 01:03:18 and read 3263 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Maybe if TK doubled their Airbus order, they could get someone higher up the EU Org Chart. Lion Air was able to get President Obama by ordering 230 737NGs and -MAXs.

German chancellor Merkel is due to visit Turkey on 25 February. It is rumoured an Airbus-order will be signed during her visit. She's there to speak with the Turkish President and Prime Minister on EU-Turkey relations, trade and the Patriot-missile mission.

In rank, there's not any one higher in the EU than Merkel. Maybe Hollande himself, but the Germans will have an argument about that  

To be continued...

Cheers!   

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: art
Posted 2013-02-08 01:33:49 and read 3079 times.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 13):
As for the 380 I know they need a new airport for it, but think about it an A380 order placed today will probably mean delivery in 3 years am I correct? The new airport won't be ready then IIRC so I say no go on the 380 rumor.

The A380 backlog stretches to about 5 years at the moment - about 160 orders undelivered with a planned delivery level of 33 a year from 2014.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: rwsea
Posted 2013-02-08 02:31:40 and read 2929 times.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 27):
Dumb post.
Turkey IS trying to enter the EU.

That's quite debatable. And in any event, Turkey would never be allowed to have open borders with Europe, adopt the Europe, receive EU funding, or any other benefit of EU membership simply because of an airplane order.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: scbriml
Posted 2013-02-08 04:33:55 and read 2679 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Then why do they operate the A330-200 and A330-300, which are similar in size to the 787-8 and 787-9?

They only have nine -200s which were ordered ten or more years ago and all delivered in 2005/6. All subsequent A330 orders (a total of 27) have all been for the larger -300). TK has grown massively since they ordered those -200s.

Given their huge traffic growth and the current outstanding orders for 77Ws, they might think the 787-8 is now too small and prefer a combination of A350-900s & -1000s. Like Emirates, I can easily see the A350-900 being the smallest widebody in their fleet.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-02-08 06:32:49 and read 2539 times.

AF operating 332, 343, 747, 772, 77W and 380 and ordering both 787 and 350
looks pretty close to
TK operating 332, 333, 343, 77W and probably ordering 350 and 380, even maybe 789.

Also, I can see with an order that size Turkey will be asking more subcontracting work to be done in Turkey, from either A or B.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-02-08 07:15:47 and read 2432 times.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 28):
All subsequent A330 orders (a total of 27) have all been for the larger -300). TK has grown massively since they ordered those -200s.

Okay, that explains why they don't like the 787-8.

But the 787-9 is almost bang-on the same size as the A330-300 and it offers better range and better cargo volume. And then there is the 787-10, which would offer even more capability than the A330-300 across the board.

Topic: RE: Turkish Airlines Looking For 150 New Aircraft
Username: TK787
Posted 2013-02-08 08:14:33 and read 2286 times.

I think TK has to make a decision how to cover destinations which can't be served by 321Neo/739M;
which is 185pax @3700nm.
That covers All Europe/Middle East, most Africa, most Asia.
Anything that doesn't cover, already been served by 333/77Ws.
Right now TK has a gap between 185-250 pax (321-332)
After 332 is gone, TK will have a bigger gap 185-276 (321Neo-358) or (321Neo-789)

By the way, if TK liked that 250 pax segment they would have ordered more, but always opted for 333/77W size.


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