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Topic: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-07 14:59:05 and read 5778 times.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...nes-takes-next-step-190000599.html


AS filed required paperwork with the FAA should they start service from PAE....Paine Field...better known as the airport about 30 miles north of SEA where the B747, 777, 767 and 787 are built. It's a suprisingly aggresive schedule....probably a little over the top so some other airline (G4?) doesn't get any big ideas.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-07 15:26:39 and read 5625 times.

In the linked article:

"That said, if one or more other airlines begin operations at Paine Field, we would commence service alongside these carriers. Submitting a schedule with the FAA along with a request for authorization to serve Paine is a necessary step in the process.:

To me this seems like a preemptive strike, but with no intention of really wanting to start that service. The other carrier is obviously G4.

I would like to see AS start at least some QX flights from PAE to PDX and maybe SJC or GEG. I think there's some market from the north end of the Puget Sound, but south of the main BLI cachement area.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-07 15:33:07 and read 5575 times.

Interesting move. I continue to believe that Spirit is looking at PAE, along of course with BLI, as their possible entry point into the Puget Sound region. And It certainly is no surprise to see AAG ready and willing to jump on this... as needed.

This will be fastinating to watch unfold over the next year or 2.

bb

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Raddek
Posted 2013-02-07 15:35:48 and read 5556 times.

WN might be looking at PAE as well. The costs in SEA are very expensive to operate, so if WN can lower costs and have a few flights a day to let's say LAS, DEN, PHX, and maybe a MDW flight.

I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs! They would love a non-stop flight to each factory. But I know it won't happen. I can only keep dreaming! haha

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-07 15:43:39 and read 5497 times.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

I always think this is kind of a fallacy (no offense). Just because a given company has facilities in given cities, doesn't mean there's a market for a daily non-stop flight. Other posters have said this before. Company XYZ has a factory in Istanbul and headquarters in Houston so therefore UA should start a IAH-IST flight, for example.

How many Boeing daily fly between Everett and Charleston? Enough to fill a 738 everyday? Probably not.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2013-02-07 16:05:13 and read 5366 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I always think this is kind of a fallacy (no offense). Just because a given company has facilities in given cities, doesn't mean there's a market for a daily non-stop flight. Other posters have said this before. Company XYZ has a factory in Istanbul and headquarters in Houston so therefore UA should start a IAH-IST flight, for example.

Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: AVLAirlineFreq
Posted 2013-02-07 16:11:07 and read 5327 times.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.

I think it was TW.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2013-02-07 16:14:55 and read 5303 times.

That is correct. It was TWA that flew a trip 5x/week between SEA-ICT.
I think it shows how much AAG wants to serve PAE lol. Only if anyone else starts PAE flights do they feel the need to also join in.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-07 16:17:35 and read 5288 times.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 6):
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.

I think it was TW.

TW with an MD-80. AS and I think WN do SEA-STL and AS/OO does SEA-LGB which connect Boeing facilities, but I'm sure Boeing business travel is only a small daily percentage.

Like I said, I do think there's some limited market for PAE-PDX and maybe a few places like SFO/SJC and GEG. Some of us would much prefer to fly out of the nearest local airport like PAE, SNA, SJC, etc than spend awhile driving and sitting in traffic to get to a farther away major airport.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-07 16:22:32 and read 5247 times.

Here's the AS new release:

http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20130207_104647.asp

Interestingly, the initial schedule is almost identical to though out of BLI (except QX to PDX instead of SEA, obviously, and splitting HNL and OGG with one airplane - 3x and 4x a week). Then it would add 1 daily LAX and a split frequency to SAN and PHX (4x and 3x).

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-07 16:25:04 and read 5234 times.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

How many Boeing execs fly commercial do you think? Maybe some lesser folks with the company would be able to make use of a commercial flight -- and there would never be a nonstop from PAE to CHS anyway -- but I doubt it would be any execs.

And I'm sure a nonstop from PAE to Chicago would also not be used by execs at Boeing either...

bb

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-02-07 16:30:29 and read 5186 times.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
WN might be looking at PAE as well. The costs in SEA are very expensive to operate, so if WN can lower costs and have a few flights a day to let's say LAS, DEN, PHX, and maybe a MDW flight.

I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

Boeing execs on WN that is funny and it will never happen. I'm sure they will keep flying on the corporate jet the service has to be better.  

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-07 16:38:12 and read 5125 times.

The proposed routes show that they are going after Allegiant. If AS really wanted to develop PAE, they'd fly to destinations in top demand like LAX, SFO and ANC. However they are more interested in fighting off Allegiant to LAS, OGG and HNL. LAX, SAN and PHX are also proposed, which just happen to be the same routes that Allegiant serves from BLI.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: panam330
Posted 2013-02-07 16:41:32 and read 5104 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
This will be fastinating to watch unfold over the next year or 2.

   I'm most surprised to not see some Bay Area flights in the proposed mix, be they SFO, SJC or even OAK.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2013-02-07 17:27:05 and read 4928 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
Paine Field...better known as the airport about 30 miles north of SEA

I think PAE makes sense it roughly splits the difference between SEA and the Seattle city center. which would take some stress of I-5 and highway 99 around the airport. Seattle held the 7th out of 10 spot in traffic sprawl in 2012 http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/22/...e-10-worst-u-s-cities-for-traffic/

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
WN might be looking at PAE as well.

You can't help but think this because WN tried very hard to begin flights at BFI several years ago. I also think F9 is a potential tenant at PAE l. F9 does extremely well in SEA. Because Costco and Microsoft headquarters are north and west of the Seattle city center I suspect these companies would welcome PAE service when traffic enters the equation.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-07 18:15:33 and read 4765 times.

I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport. And for those of you that know Seattle traffic, driving through the bottleneck of central Seattle is a major pain at all hours of the day. I loved the logic of the previous poster...this could potentially reduce traffic through the city should PAE grow into a decent-sized operation. Heck, in ten years it could very well be a smaller version of SNA or MDW. Of course the NIMBYS will hate that....except when they don't have to drive to SeaTac for their flight to OGG.  

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: prost
Posted 2013-02-07 18:23:17 and read 4736 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 14):
Because Costco and Microsoft headquarters are north and west of the Seattle city center I suspect these companies would welcome PAE service when traffic enters the equation.

They are due east of Seattle city center. And taking I-405 to Everett is no great shakes, either.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-07 18:26:52 and read 4709 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport. And for those of you that know Seattle traffic, driving through the bottleneck of central Seattle is a major pain at all hours of the day.

Much like Vancouver where Abbotsford airport (YXX), about 40 miles east of YVR, serves a similar role. WestJet has several daily flights YXX-YYC and YXX-YEG, and a couple of small local carriers operate to Victoria and Nanaimo. There must be several hundred thousand people who live closer to YXX than YVR, and traffic between the eastern suburbs and YVR airport can be slow.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: sxf24
Posted 2013-02-07 19:49:08 and read 4558 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
How many Boeing execs fly commercial do you think? Maybe some lesser folks with the company would be able to make use of a commercial flight -- and there would never be a nonstop from PAE to CHS anyway -- but I doubt it would be any execs.

There are only a handful of Boeing executives that don't fly commercial. In the Seattle area, the head of BCA is probably the only executive that has access to the corporate fleet - other executives will fly commercially (in first class, of course).

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: FATFlyer
Posted 2013-02-07 19:50:19 and read 4551 times.

A change back from's September statement that they were no longer interested.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201...terested-in-Paine-Field-flights%0A

This announcement is also a change from the previous talk of having QX running up to 140 weekly flights to PDX and GEG. Now, more routes, larger equipment, fewer weekly flights.

My guess is someone like Allegiant is seriously showing interested in starting service, maybe discussions about planning for a terminal building have sparked this announcement.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Raddek
Posted 2013-02-07 20:18:21 and read 4422 times.

Well CHS also has an up and coming cruise ship port there now a days. Cruises would attract people from the greater Seattle area and maybe even from up north in Canada. I am not saying that the Boeing would fill it with their business travels but Snohomish county has 400.000 + population. So I really can it supporting some WN flights. But like I said, the CHS would just be a dream. I did however make a few valid points on why something would work if they ever did go for a shot in the dark.  

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2013-02-07 21:46:24 and read 4209 times.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 20):
Well CHS also has an up and coming cruise ship port there now a days. Cruises would attract people from the greater Seattle area and maybe even from up north in Canada. I am not saying that the Boeing would fill it with their business travels but Snohomish county has 400.000 + population. So I really can it supporting some WN flights. But like I said, the CHS would just be a dream. I did however make a few valid points on why something would work if they ever did go for a shot in the dark.

A daily (or even just several days a week) SEA-CHS flight couldn't probably fill up a CRJ. The CHS cruise port only hosts one regular cruise ship, with a couple others calling on an occasional and seasonal basis. Boeing may send some folks back and forth but I highly doubt the numbers are anywhere near what are suggested by some here. There is pretty limited traffic between the two cities.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-02-07 22:45:35 and read 4050 times.

This is never going to happen. It is a tool to make ensure that the Port of Seattle doesn't raise their gate fees at SEA. This is economic driven politics.

That also was what WN did as well when they said they were going to BFI.

Bookmark this post and in five years you will see my words are true.

Reality is Snohomish County is not going to fund a capital bond project to build a suitable terminal, I don't see it, they are struggling financially.

[Edited 2013-02-07 22:49:18]

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-02-07 23:13:50 and read 3982 times.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
That is correct. It was TWA that flew a trip 5x/week between SEA-ICT.
I think it shows how much AAG wants to serve PAE lol. Only if anyone else starts PAE flights do they feel the need to also join in.

I believe it all comes down to SEA being the center of their universe, and any diversity into BFI, PAE, etc would not only dilute their passenger base raising costs at SEA directly, but it would also allow other carriers avoid SEA entirely and start service that otherwise would have either gone to SEA or been by default on other carriers at SEA.

It's all about SEA imho.

-Dave

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-08 07:34:52 and read 3651 times.

The Port of Seattle, operator of SeaTac Airport, has no say as to what happens in Snohomish County where PAE is located. This all very preliminary but they actually might want to provide facilities...or will lease land for airlines to build their own. AS has built and owns its own terminals throughout the state of Alaska so they're no stranger to building their own facilities if needed.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-02-08 09:24:37 and read 3559 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):
AS has built and owns its own terminals throughout the state of Alaska so they're no stranger to building their own facilities if needed.

And where do they get the $$ to build there own terminals?

With the five year outlook it would have to be modular offices, there will not be enough revenue from this to build anything formal with jet bridge, baggage belts, ticket counters, boarding gates and dont forget the marble tile floor.

Again this is an insurance card that the POS doesn't mess with AS economics.

In poker its called a BLUFF.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: FATFlyer
Posted 2013-02-08 10:07:49 and read 3483 times.

Modular is exactly what PAE has planned.

The environmental analysis docs described a roughly 30,000 sq ft addition to the existing building off 100th St. SW. The expansion would be located on the existing ramp next to the tower and use the existing parking lots to start. So bare bones and using as much existing infrastructure as possible to keep construction costs low.

Where would the money come from? Putting in a PFC would provide one revenue stream for repayment. Just need a lending source.

Allegiant would likely not want to own/build the terminal expansion. But they did offer $3 million as an unsecured loan (to be repaid from a PFC) to AZA a few years ago for a terminal expansion.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...8/25/20080825mr-allegiant0825.html

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2013-02-08 11:17:28 and read 3448 times.

Quoting prost (Reply 16):
They are due east of Seattle city center.

Yes they are. Kirkland is slightly more east and north as I recall. An Aussie moment I suppose.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-08 11:33:27 and read 3370 times.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 18):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
How many Boeing execs fly commercial do you think? Maybe some lesser folks with the company would be able to make use of a commercial flight -- and there would never be a nonstop from PAE to CHS anyway -- but I doubt it would be any execs.

There are only a handful of Boeing executives that don't fly commercial. In the Seattle area, the head of BCA is probably the only executive that has access to the corporate fleet - other executives will fly commercially (in first class, of course).

SEA/PAE-CHS is never going to happen. Look how many years it took for AS to fly SEA-STL after AA dropped the route?

But Boeing does have quite a bit of travel. It’s a very global company with 40,000 people working in Everett. About half of them are highly paid engineering, management and non-union professionals. There is a lot of travel associated with their supply chain and to all the customers. I’ve seen 50+ Boeing people on Seattle – Long Beach and Seattle – Orange County flights before. The executives are just a small chunk of an overall business that requires a lot of travel. CHS is a relatively small sight, but Long Beach may work out. You also can factor in the large amount of people with reasonable amounts of disposable income traveling on leisure too that work at the airport.

For a while Boeing had its own Dornier 328 Jet operating daily from BFI to California.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 25):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):
AS has built and owns its own terminals throughout the state of Alaska so they're no stranger to building their own facilities if needed.

And where do they get the $$ to build there own terminals?

I could see it happening. AS has built more terminals than any other airline that I know of, although most of them benefit from EAS money.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2013-02-08 11:35:21 and read 3348 times.

Quoting panam330 (Reply 13):
I'm most surprised to not see some Bay Area flights in the proposed mix, be they SFO, SJC or even OAK.

I agree. Possibly even a Spokane flight. But, as you say I'd be amazed if it wasn't heavily west coast route based.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport. And for those of you that know Seattle traffic, driving through the bottleneck of central Seattle is a major pain at all hours of the day. I loved the logic of the previous poster...this could potentially reduce traffic through the city should PAE grow into a decent-sized operation. Heck, in ten years it could very well be a smaller version of SNA or MDW. Of course the NIMBYS will hate that....except when they don't have to drive to SeaTac for their flight to OGG.

I'm not sure I agree that it will be quite so large as even a smaller version of MDW, but you correctly note that anyone living north of a city like Shoreline and from Bellingham south would find this a very attractive alternative to SEA. Especially if you needed to fly out early in the day during the rush hour.

Just yesterday it took me almost 30 minutes to go around 5 miles from 85th to I-90. I'd avoid that if I could.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 22):
Reality is Snohomish County is not going to fund a capital bond project to build a suitable terminal, I don't see it, they are struggling financially.

Right, because BLI and the Port of Bellingham weren't able to build a suitable terminal..... The 60,000 sq. foot expansion they are doing right now is entirely funded by a $4.50 facilities charge added to tickets covering the entire project.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 25):

With the five year outlook it would have to be modular offices, there will not be enough revenue from this to build anything formal with jet bridge, baggage belts, ticket counters, boarding gates and dont forget the marble tile floor.
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 26):
Modular is exactly what PAE has planned.

FATFlyer and I apparently are the only people that have flown out of modular terminals before. Ticket counters under sprung structures or modular structures are common.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-08 11:50:44 and read 3310 times.

Having been into the Seattle area several times, all I can remember of it is that its a city with about 4M people and one freeway. This city to me seems mostly sprawled along I-5, and from my few times there and riding on I-5, it seems that there is a 24 hour traffic jam.

Next, I took a redeye flight out of SEA a few years ago. Even though it was after midnight, all I remember there is that the terminal was full of people as if it were 4 pm, and finally after getting onto the airplane for my flight, there was about a dozen planes waiting to take-off ahead of my flight. Maybe some of these cargo flights, but remembering so many people in the terminal, well......

All that being said..... I think that the Seattle area not only can support both SEA and BLI, but with PAE being on the other side of the city from SEA...... I think that there is good potential to develop PAE as well, and it can draw on the large, relatively well-to-do population on the north side of the city. Only problem that I can see, and that is the one of the age old one of the NIMBYs. But with some restraints....... I see healthy O&D service with good premium and even some allowable growth capacity at PAE.

Anything that keeps more of the residents of Seattle off of I-5 is a good thing.


 

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Raddek
Posted 2013-02-08 11:57:14 and read 3279 times.

  Then it needs to be a Boeing WN Cattle Car. PAE-LGB-ICT-STL-CHS. Stop off at all the points and pick up the folks! hahaha

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-08 12:02:33 and read 3237 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 27):
Quoting prost (Reply 16):
They are due east of Seattle city center.

Yes they are. Kirkland is slightly more east and north as I recall. An Aussie moment I suppose.

Kirkland is west and north of the Microsoft campus, which is on the southwest side of Redmond. Kirkland is pretty much directly west of all of Redmond. Either are very slightly closer to PAE in distance than SEA, but it depends on traffic patterns. Traffic is light to PAE in the morning (when most traffic is coming the other direction on 405).

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-08 12:27:59 and read 3195 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 30):
Next, I took a redeye flight out of SEA a few years ago. Even though it was after midnight, all I remember there is that the terminal was full of people as if it were 4 pm, and finally after getting onto the airplane for my flight, there was about a dozen planes waiting to take-off ahead of my flight. Maybe some of these cargo flights, but remembering so many people in the terminal, well......

Parts of SEA are busier at 11pm than 4pm. SEA has the typical west coast traffic pattern. Departures are busy from 6am until 2pm. Then it is dead quiet until a massive surge of domestic redeyes between 10:30pm and Midnight. UA for example has 7 domestic redeye departures from SEA in the summer. The busiest UA check in ever gets is around 10pm in the summer.

The reason is that flights to the east coast leave in the morning to arrive at a reasonable hour or are red eye flights. International flights usually leave around noon - 2pm with some later departures. In the late afternoon and early evening, the only flights departing in great numbers are shorter flights up and down the west coast. At 4pm the only airlines with departures in significant numbers are Alaska, Horizon, and Southwest.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-02-08 12:37:28 and read 3084 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport.

They are offering the best destinations to start. Hawaii and LAS. PDX for connections.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2013-02-08 12:44:25 and read 3006 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 30):
Having been into the Seattle area several times, all I can remember of it is that its a city with about 4M people and one freeway.

To be fair, there really are 2 freeways. I typically take Hwy 99 to SEA other than I-5. But, both can get very congested during the rush hour. Going north of downtown you'd want to take I-5 though, 99 has lots of traffic lights north of Greenlake.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 33):
Parts of SEA are busier at 11pm than 4pm. SEA has the typical west coast traffic pattern. Departures are busy from 6am until 2pm. Then it is dead quiet until a massive surge of domestic redeyes between 10:30pm and Midnight. UA for example has 7 domestic redeye departures from SEA in the summer. The busiest UA check in ever gets is around 10pm in the summer.

The reason is that flights to the east coast leave in the morning to arrive at a reasonable hour or are red eye flights. International flights usually leave around noon - 2pm with some later departures. In the late afternoon and early evening, the only flights departing in great numbers are shorter flights up and down the west coast. At 4pm the only airlines with departures in significant numbers are Alaska, Horizon, and Southwest.

I'll second this, when I worked at SEA I typically worked from 4pm-12pm. The few airlines that run red eyes keep their terminal busy, while other terminals are dead quiet. NW and B6 used to share the N Satellite for late flights and it was fairly busy. As you correctly note, the UA departures late during the summer keep their gates full as well.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-08 12:47:36 and read 2972 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 33):

Okay, t/y for this, as I guess my observation is basically correct here. And maybe I'm thinking of 4 pm at a lot of other airports, but as you state, this is a slow time for SEA.

Anyways, when I go through SEA, it's usually been mornings or afternoons, except for this one late flight that I took. And I have to admit that it took me by surprise to see all of the people and traffic there that late, considering (if I remember correctly) that my B6 flight to JFK left after midnight, although checking the schedule now, I see the flight leaves around 9:45 pm.

Still, the Seattle area needs another freeway........

 

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: prost
Posted 2013-02-08 13:36:34 and read 2547 times.

Hey Canoecarrier. Your supervisor at NW must have been angry with you if you were working NW flights at the N satellite.

NW was a S satellite carrier.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-08 13:42:05 and read 2505 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 25):
And where do they get the $$ to build there own terminals?

AS has the money to build a golden palace if they wanted...building a small terminal at PAE would not be a problem.

Quoting point2point (Reply 36):
Still, the Seattle area needs another freeway........

Will never happen....although there has been very preliminary talk about a new freeway east of I-405 in the foothills of the Cascades. There's no money to build it though and the people that like their rural lifestyles would scream bloody murder. WSDOT has a plan to add another northbound I-5 lane through downtown...it'll probably take three years to just re-stripe the current lanes to make it happen. I think they said $24million to essentially do just that.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-02-08 13:50:42 and read 2429 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 38):
Will never happen....although there has been very preliminary talk about a new freeway east of I-405 in the foothills of the Cascades. There's no money to build it

TOLL IT that will pay for it ..... need to get there fast you will pay for it like they do in and around Orlando.. Maybe people in Seattle need to expect more from public transportation.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: canoecarrier
Posted 2013-02-08 13:58:53 and read 2367 times.

Quoting prost (Reply 37):
Hey Canoecarrier. Your supervisor at NW must have been angry with you if you were working NW flights at the N satellite.

NW was a S satellite carrier.

I stand corrected. I've worked N and S satellite and the B gates. It's been a while.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-02-08 14:15:25 and read 2244 times.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 31):
Then it needs to be a Boeing WN Cattle Car. PAE-LGB-ICT-STL-CHS. Stop off at all the points and pick up the folks! hahaha

Actually Eastern ran a flight like that during the Apollo Program. MLB-MCO-HSV-STL-SEA on a 727-100. MLB was dropped and the origin became MCO

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-08 14:15:53 and read 2251 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 39):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 38):
Will never happen....although there has been very preliminary talk about a new freeway east of I-405 in the foothills of the Cascades. There's no money to build it

TOLL IT that will pay for it ..... need to get there fast you will pay for it like they do in and around Orlando.. Maybe people in Seattle need to expect more from public transportation.

If you are from around Seattle, you know the challenges of geography. Where are you going to build another freeway? There are two freeways, and they can be expanded, but you'll still have traffic. There are lakes, hills and mountains to get around. I think the biggest case for opening up flights from PAE is that Seattle is so far spread out North to South. The extreme population edges of the metro area (Olympia to Marysville) stretch 100 miles. PAE to SEA is only 40 miles, but the two airports do a good job splitting up the geographic area.

It is nothing like Orlando, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc where the only challenge with a new freeway is purchasing the land, and when that is costly, just elevate the freeway. In Seattle, there is no where to easily put another freeway without major infrastructure crossing lakes, etc. Seattle is more like San Francisco or Boston when it comes to geography.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: BE77
Posted 2013-02-08 14:22:08 and read 2199 times.

Anything north of Seattle by default becomes another option for YVR, especially for OGG, HNL, LAS, LAX destinations or connections, due to the typically much higher fares out of most (all?) airports in Canada.
Probably not worth it travelling alone, but as soon as you add up the savings for 3 or 4 people travelling together, it becomes a very worthwhile drive.
BLI already gets a lot of this traffic and are expanding because of it, but there is probably more business to be had.

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/C...llion+expansion/6858093/story.html

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Gunsontheroof
Posted 2013-02-08 14:32:50 and read 2108 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
To me this seems like a preemptive strike, but with no intention of really wanting to start that service. The other carrier is obviously G4.

More than likely. That being said, commercial service at PAE is going to happen someday one way or another and you can bet AS will be there countering G4 and whoever else decides to set up shop there. The "proposed" schedule is definitely heavy, but Snohomish County IS growing steadily...

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
WN might be looking at PAE as well. The costs in SEA are very expensive to operate, so if WN can lower costs and have a few flights a day to let's say LAS, DEN, PHX, and maybe a MDW flight.

It wouldn't surprise me. They could probably make some of the busier western U.S. routes work nicely for them.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
How many Boeing daily fly between Everett and Charleston? Enough to fill a 738 everyday? Probably not.

No chance!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
And I'm sure a nonstop from PAE to Chicago would also not be used by execs at Boeing either...

Probably not so much, but PAE would serve a large enough catchment area that it could support a daily to ORD or MDW at some point. Wouldn't surprise me terribly.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 14):

I think PAE makes sense it roughly splits the difference between SEA and the Seattle city center.
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport.

This is what a lot of the non-locals don't realize. A lot of people in northern King County would definitely consider PAE as an alternative to SEA, even for business travel if the frequencies are there. It'll all come down to the facilities in place and who's serving PAE. I suspect that volume is going to depend heavily on who gets into the market and thus, what AS decides to do. You can bet they're going to go blow for blow up there and they have the advantage of a huge local FF base...

Quoting point2point (Reply 30):
All that being said..... I think that the Seattle area not only can support both SEA and BLI, but with PAE being on the other side of the city from SEA

Seattle doesn't support BLI. It's far enough away that it can't be considered an "alternate" airport to SEA. It's more of an alternate to YVR (go B.C. plate hunting in the parking lot) than anything else. If services at PAE do indeed start in the next few years, it will indeed be a true alternate to SEA (and I would argue, a suitably located one) that the market can support. The folks at Port of Seattle won't like it, but SEA is growing and will do fine even with PAE in the picture. It's all a matter of how long it takes to brush off the NIMBYs who at this point, are probably fighting a losing battle.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: hatbutton
Posted 2013-02-08 15:08:28 and read 1897 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 25):
Again this is an insurance card that the POS doesn't mess with AS economics.

In poker its called a BLUFF.

It's a poker game, but not with POS. It's with Allegiant. AS does not want to go to PAE. The only reason anyone is talking about service there is because Allegiant brought it up. Allegiant is the one who wanted the FAA to see if PAE flights could happen. If this was a move about the POS then AS would have made the first move years ago before Allegiant was even remotely thinking about flying there. If Allegiant decides to change their mind and not start service, AS will drop back in a heartbeat. Even the press release clearly alludes to that. I don't see why you're so convinced this is to spite the POS. The evidence is pretty clear.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-02-08 16:18:08 and read 1793 times.

ANYHOW.... If PAE wants to be a intermediate airport to SEA then they need top make the investment into a formal terminal facility.A Modular will not do. PAE has the room and other support structures in place right now.

I think this should be up to the will of the voters of Snohomish County if they want a terminal, anything short of a comprehensive master plan of where this all leads is a disaster waiting to happen.

HOWEVER if Snohomish County wants this I think there is marketability to the majors. I also believe the same on the southside in Pierce County as well.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-08 16:23:26 and read 1783 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 46):
ANYHOW.... If PAE wants to be a intermediate airport to SEA then they need top make the investment into a formal terminal facility.A Modular will not do. PAE has the room and other support structures in place right now.

I think this should be up to the will of the voters of Snohomish County if they want a terminal, anything short of a comprehensive master plan of where this all leads is a disaster waiting to happen.

Well I think Allegiant would be willing to start service out of a shack. Some of the airports they serve are nothing more than a temporary shack.

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-08 18:59:49 and read 1630 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 38):
Will never happen.

I stated that the Seattle area needs another freeway. I didn't state that it was getting one. I think that we can all agree that just because there is a need, doesn't mean that it's going to happen....... and I agree with you it probably won't.... I just like to tell everyone there what they need......

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 42):
If you are from around Seattle, you know the challenges of geography. Where are you going to build another freeway?

From my limited experience in the Seattle area....... I've got bagfuls of I-5 jokes...... Sitting in the I-5 traffic to gave me plenty of time for them......    And yes....... I realize geography and the way the area has developed really makes it practically impossible to have say...... an I-7, or something like that, although it would be nice, eh?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 44):
Seattle doesn't support BLI. It's far enough away that it can't be considered an "alternate" airport to SEA.

Okay, well.... hmmmmmmm? I would think that for those in the north of Seattle (okay, pretty far north maybe) BLI could maybe capture some pax traffic. From what I remember, SEA is pretty far south of DT Seattle, and BLI is pretty far north. It's 108 miles between the two airports, so maybe this is something like DEN and COS (well, maybe a few more miles in between)? When WestPac had their COS hub and fares were outrageous at DEN with UA basically being in control, a lot of those from the south of Denver (and even then some) drove down to COS for the cheaper WestPac fares. And now, many from Colorado Springs will use DEN for the availability and fares. Although COS really isn't an alternate for DEN, and vice versa, high amounts of leakage between the two can happen. Maybe the same with Seattle and SEA and BLI? I would even wonder if FNL (with G4 now gone, but.....) could even actually be an alternative for the Denver area, even with just a few flights to serve those in the far north of the Denver area, Boulder, Fort Collins, and all those other areas in northern Colorado front range, all the way up to Cheyenne and Laramie WY.

At any rate..... I personally think that it probably would be a good idea for the Seattle area to have this second airport. And from my good idea (and probably a lot of everyone else's) to becoming a reality, well.........

All the best everyone





 

Topic: RE: AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2013-02-09 00:04:31 and read 1432 times.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 45):
It's a poker game, but not with POS. It's with Allegiant. AS does not want to go to PAE. The only reason anyone is talking about service there is because Allegiant brought it up. Allegiant is the one who wanted the FAA to see if PAE flights could happen. If this was a move about the POS then AS would have made the first move years ago before Allegiant was even remotely thinking about flying there. If Allegiant decides to change their mind and not start service, AS will drop back in a heartbeat. Even the press release clearly alludes to that. I don't see why you're so convinced this is to spite the POS. The evidence is pretty clear.

Exactly. It's the same as BLI. Alaska would likely not be doing BLI-Hawaii were it not for Allegiant, let alone BLI-LAS. Or the whole BFI saga brought on by WN.

-Dave


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