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Topic: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: TWA1985
Posted 2013-02-10 12:03:42 and read 6669 times.

I was just perusing for jobs (non airline related) and noticed that Frontier is hiring flight attendants to be based in Chicago as well as Denver. Kind of shocking considering the recent news from F9 on the outsourcing. I assumed that the Chicago base would eventually dwindle away with the airline's financial woes. Perhaps this is a good sign!

https://re2o.ultipro.com/rep1003B/JobBoard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*80D678DBE56F7906

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:08:16]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:08:52]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:09:57]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:13:18]

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2013-02-10 12:56:05 and read 6512 times.

Quoting TWA1985 (Thread starter):
Perhaps this is a good sign!

Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: beachbum1970
Posted 2013-02-10 13:51:26 and read 6385 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...

Agree. The employees being furloughed should have first choice at interviewing for these FA jobs. They already know the company policies, airplanes, routes, etc. Feel so bad for those workers affected. The airlines are such a tough industry to work in, and yet it's so hard to give up...

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: antoniemey
Posted 2013-02-10 14:14:58 and read 6320 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...

If they operate like most companies, they probably did both.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-02-10 14:28:36 and read 6269 times.

This tells you one thing for sure. The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller. Frontier used to be a great place to work. But now, it has become a not so fun place. Morale was already rock bottom, so the outsourcing has likely caused a further drop in morale.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 14:30:49 and read 6265 times.

Quoting TWA1985 (Thread starter):
Kind of shocking considering the recent news from F9 on the outsourcing. I assumed that the base would eventually dwindle away with the airline's financial woes.

What financial woes? Frontier is operating profitably.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 4):
The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller.

The fleet has stabilised.

mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-10 14:37:27 and read 6241 times.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 4):
The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller.

With other airlines hiring I'm sure that FA's are starting to bail in droves. The future does not look bright for F9. Flying for a more stable company probably looks much better than sticking around until the end.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 14:49:36 and read 6201 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 6):
The future does not look bright for F9.

So - in review:

Frontier lost $20 million in Q1 2012, before the restructure started. Then in Q2:

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ines-gives-a-lift-to.html?page=all

"Quarterly revenues specifically for Frontier Airlines rose 11.3 percent year over year, from $333.2 million in 2011 to $370.7 million in 2012. The airline posted pre-tax income of $14.1 million in second quarter 2012, compared to a $32.6 million pre-tax loss for the quarter in 2011."

And Q3:

http://www.farebuzz.com/frontier-air...-q3-2012-results.aspx#.URgiMaUii-8

"Frontier Airlines reports strong Q3 2012 results

Frontier Airlines recently announced its operations results for the third quarter ending September 30, 2012 and was quite optimistic at the strong showings.

The airline in a statement said that it posted pre-tax revenue earnings of $29.8 million for Q3 2012, a significant increase from a pre-tax loss of $1.5 million for the same period in 2011."


Q4 hasn't been posted yet, but here's the guidance, issued on December 31 2012:

http://www.jagsreport.com/2013/01/re...g-reaffirmed-by-dahlman-rose-rjet/

"As a result of higher revenues and lower costs, Frontier generated a profit margin of 2% to 3% in the quarter. The Republic Airways subsidiary is expected to report a pretax profit of $20 MM to $25MM, up from prior 4Q12 guidance of $15 MM to $20MM."

So even at the lowest end of the guidance, this would give Frontier a full year 2012 net of about $40 million.

mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-10 14:58:04 and read 6166 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
So even at the lowest end of the guidance, this would give Frontier a full year 2012 net of about $40 million.

Generating a profit of 2-3% isn't sustainable unless there are deep pockets or foolish investors (VX). Everyone knows F9 is for sale and that Rjet wants to dump them. That is why I don't think the future is bright.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 15:03:13 and read 6160 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
Generating a profit of 2-3% isn't sustainable unless there are deep pockets or foolish investors (VX). Everyone knows F9 is for sale and that Rjet wants to dump them. That is why I don't think the future is bright.

That's the margin for Q4 - the margin for Q3 was double that.

And I don't know that Frontier is "for sale." I know it is to be "separated."

Based on the FAPA agreement, the basis of this, Republic will still hold a minority interest.

mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-02-10 16:21:45 and read 6009 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):

I would not consider one year of profitability, when almost all other years have been unprofitable, stable. Call me back in 2-3 years and tell me F9 has been profitable each year and then you can call them stable. WN, B6, DL, US, AS... they are stable, F9 is not stable.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 16:51:27 and read 5947 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
I would not consider one year of profitability, when almost all other years have been unprofitable, stable.

When did I claim that? I have never said Frontier is "stable", I can't predict the future. I only know what is - now.

It's not so long ago that the a.net knives were out for US, for example, and I never thought that Southwest would get headlines like this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb.../la-fi-southwest-airlines-20130210

"Is Southwest Airlines losing the luv?"

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 17:03:12]

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-02-10 17:24:42 and read 5854 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 12):
"Is Southwest Airlines losing the luv?"

That is just biased and things like that come out about every airline.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 17:32:58 and read 5830 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
That is just biased and things like that come out about every airline.

Indeed, that may be. But it was said and the quotes from customers support the thesis.

The media thinks Frontier is "for sale." A.net believes Frontier is "for sale."

I only know what has been said officially, to the SEC, as here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da.../000114420411039330/v227949_8k.htm

" Pursuant thereto, Frontier and FAPA will enter into an equity investment agreement and a profit sharing plan. Such agreements will be filed by the Company pursuant to Item 1.01 on a Current Report on Form 8-K. The commercial agreement also provides that the Company will make a good faith effort to attract equity investment(s) in Frontier that would reduce the Company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest by December 31, 2014."

I don't see the word "sell."

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 17:44:29]

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: DBCooper
Posted 2013-02-10 18:37:15 and read 5696 times.

Quoting beachbum1970 (Reply 2):
The employees being furloughed should have first choice at interviewing for these FA jobs.

What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?


- DBC

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2013-02-10 18:43:26 and read 5668 times.

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 15):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?


It happens quite a bit. F/A pay is quite a bit better. And there is the travel bennie

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: antoniemey
Posted 2013-02-10 19:00:20 and read 5595 times.

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 14):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?

Some do, some don't. It's far easier to get in the door at an airline at the CS or Ramp level than going straight to an FA position, so often someone seeking to be an FA will work CS until an FA hiring run occurs.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: ATLflyer323
Posted 2013-02-10 19:25:13 and read 5535 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
The fleet has stabilised.

Are all of the E190's set to leave the fleet? If so I would not say that the fleet has "stabilized" quite yet.

-ATLFlyer323

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 19:29:41 and read 5521 times.

Quoting ATLflyer323 (Reply 18):
Are all of the E190's set to leave the fleet? If so I would not say that the fleet has "stabilized" quite yet.

Yes, the last four are going - but the plan is that they stay in the fleet until at least September.

Meanwhile the plan is some replacement Airbus aircraft are coming in. Last I heard, N954FR is due in May, for example.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 19:30:27]

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-10 20:26:52 and read 5227 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Yes, the last four are going - but the plan is that they stay in the fleet until at least September.

Meanwhile the plan is some replacement Airbus aircraft are coming in. Last I heard, N954FR is due in May, for example.

This could end being like the Q400s. Republic owns he E190s so if they don't have a buyer come September, they could decide to leave them on.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 20:34:48 and read 5180 times.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 20):
This could end being like the Q400s. Republic owns he E190s so if they don't have a buyer come September, they could decide to leave them on.

Could be.

BB said they're staying "at least until September" but the plan is that they go at some point and that Frontier becomes an all-Airbus airline by separation.

mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-10 21:01:39 and read 5046 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
Could be.

BB said they're staying "at least until September" but the plan is that they go at some point and that Frontier becomes an all-Airbus airline by separation.

N166HQ, N168HQ, N170HQ, N172HQ, and N174HQ are the 5 that have/will go back to US. 2 went to Myanma Airways in December. Of the 10 remaining, 2 I believe are still in the Midwest colors and 1 is in the generic Republic colors.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-10 21:16:26 and read 4982 times.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 22):
N166HQ, N168HQ, N170HQ, N172HQ, and N174HQ are the 5 that have/will go back to US. 2 went to Myanma Airways in December. Of the 10 remaining, 2 I believe are still in the Midwest colors and 1 is in the generic Republic colors.

And five are flying under the Republic contract with Caesar's?

http://investor.caesars.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=716450

"Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (NASDAQ: RJET) and Caesars Entertainment Corporation (NASDAQ: CZR) today signed a three-year contract under which Republic's Republic Airlines subsidiary will operate five Embraer E190 aircraft to provide more than 1,500 flights annually for Caesars' customers throughout the United States."


mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2013-02-11 02:41:55 and read 4386 times.

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 14):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?

The same thing that makes me think they don't want to be unemployed. You're right to say that not everyone would be interested, but given a shot at that vs being told to hit the bricks, I know what I'd do. On top of that, it would be a decent Olive Branch from the company and put a little more sincerity behind the whole "This was a really tough decision to make" mantra.

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 3):

If they operate like most companies, they probably did both.

They may very well have. I was just expressing sentiment really.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2013-02-11 03:49:37 and read 4279 times.

I'm surprised they weren't posted internally. They are getting rid of 700 people who at least know what makes the airline tick. Clearly not all or probably most would go for the F/A jobs, but I dare say a good number would. So, it's surprising...but in a way not surprising given the current leadership.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: floridaflyboy
Posted 2013-02-11 06:13:20 and read 4072 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 24):
I'm surprised they weren't posted internally. They are getting rid of 700 people who at least know what makes the airline tick.
Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 23):
They may very well have. I was just expressing sentiment really.

Can we stop with this drama? ALL jobs at F9 and RJET are posted internally. There is an internal job board and an external job board. A job may be posted on both, but is ALWAYS posted to the internal board. Apps come across marked as internal candidates. I would imagine there will in fact be many CSA's transitioning to FA in the coming months.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-11 08:01:50 and read 3711 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
The commercial agreement also provides that the Company will make a good faith effort to attract equity investment(s) in Frontier that would reduce the Company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest by December 31, 2014."

I don't see the word "sell."

Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: XEspecialist
Posted 2013-02-11 08:32:50 and read 3596 times.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.

Try again. The definition of 'minority interest' (from the first source I found, there are MANY others) states:

"A significant but non-controlling ownership of less than 50% of a company's voting shares by either an investor or another company."

BIG stretch to say that they are "selling" the company.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: Channex101
Posted 2013-02-11 08:38:43 and read 3549 times.

While I think any company should do the best it can to redeploy as many people as possible to other positions I don't agree that they should just be given any role.

The requirements for CS staff on ground are often different from F/A requirements, and certainly for other departments such as the ramp.

My employer did this, and the people they just made into F/As just to give them are job are not the most suited to the position.
Ramp guys are not recruited for their customer service skills, so dumping them into flying would be wrong!

I'm just saying, why does everyone assume you can just be pushed into being a F/A, its not suited for everyone and nit everyone is suited to be one

[Edited 2013-02-11 09:00:52]

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: XEspecialist
Posted 2013-02-11 08:49:39 and read 3503 times.

Quoting Channex101 (Reply 28):
I'm just saying, why does everyone assume you can just be pushed into being a F/A like just a

Just like a....?

Doze off at the controls there?   

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: Channex101
Posted 2013-02-11 09:01:37 and read 3423 times.

Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 29):

Ha! Sorry, been on a block of 4am starts think I dozed off myself mid text!

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-11 09:34:47 and read 3295 times.

Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 27):
BIG stretch to say that they are "selling" the company.

Not at all. When you're savvy enough to become a Wall Street market technician, get back to me.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: m11stephen
Posted 2013-02-11 09:40:46 and read 3289 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 15):
It happens quite a bit. F/A pay is quite a bit better. And there is the travel bennie

At most carriers CSA's and F/As make about the same amount of money. CSA's also receive the same travel privileges as F/As.

Quoting Channex101 (Reply 28):
The requirements for CS staff on ground are often different from F/A requirements, and certainly for other departments such as the ramp.

The roles of CSA and F/As are actually very similar and the requirements are also similar. Yes, there is definitely more competition for F/A positions than there is for airport CS positions. One takes care of customers on the ground and the other takes care of customers in the air.

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-11 09:48:02 and read 3252 times.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.


The Murdoch family hold a minority of News Corporation. But it is a controlling minority interest and I don't think anyone would say they have "sold" News Corp.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49436340/Murd...ins_Shareholder_Proposals_Rejected

"News Corp. 's annual shareholder meeting delivered another win for the Murdoch family, despite growing investor opposition to the family's control over the company."

A motion to eliminate the company's two-tier voting structure was also unsuccessful. This structure perpetuates Murdoch control, since the family owns 12 percent of shares but controls 40 percent of the votes. "


The control is possible because of other - allied - shareholders. I note that the same FAPA agreement calls for the Frontier pilots to be given an "equity stake" in the separated Frontier, and a later agreement gave the f'/a's a similar stake.

mariner

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: Channex101
Posted 2013-02-11 10:48:06 and read 3030 times.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 32):

I was kind of aiming it at the ramp staff and such, i know ground CS are pretty much similar but you cant assume just because you do customer service on ground you can do it in the air, some people who are used to sitting at a computer screen on check in all day might not want to spend 12hrs on their feet for 4 sectors.

I come from working on the ground, and yes its customer service, but in a different way

Topic: RE: Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2013-02-11 18:57:02 and read 2673 times.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 32):
At most carriers CSA's and F/As make about the same amount of money. CSA's also receive the same travel privileges as F/As.

F/A's receive a higher rate of pay, but fewer "working" hours (yes, I know, that doesn't reflect how much they actually are working). Still, for a part-time CS Agent, shifting to F/A could easily be a net pay increase for a similar, though not the same, type and amount of work.

It depends and will vary based on many factors. Not everyone will want to pursue it. Still less will actually be accepted. But, it is an option.


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