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Topic: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: rotating14
Posted 2013-02-10 14:25:48 and read 13214 times.

While much of our focus is on the battery issues of the 787, the 787-10 has not been brought up, nor the 777-x . But now we hear from EK exec Tim Clark (TC) saying that they expect to see a design freeze (or something close to it) on the new 777-x sooner than later. Between 6-9 months from now he says. Granted is TC but he is the largest buyer of the type and a vocal advocate along with Mr Walsh from BA to develop and bring the new 777 type sooner than later.

My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x?? Last we heard the 777-x was on the back burner and Boeing wanted to develop and freeze a design for the -10. Thoughts??

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE91902E20130210?irpc=932

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-02-10 14:40:07 and read 13142 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x??

I'd tend to doubt that. If anything they are stealing experts who could be working on 777X to help solve the 787 problem, because urgent customer satisfaction issues take priority over new product development, at least at all the companies I've worked for. The real issue is how many such experts are available to be stolen, which may not be a large number, unless Boeing is treating the 787 as an "all hands on deck" issue where every resource possible gets stolen, even if they end up working on some aspect of the battery issue that is outside their expertise.

So it seems Mr Clark is being overly optimistic, or perhaps he's been told that Boeing's initial 777X estimate was pessimistic and it'll be on offer sooner rather than later.

[Edited 2013-02-10 14:42:39]

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2013-02-10 14:58:32 and read 13039 times.

Maybe TC is ready to place a launch order so Boeing is moving up the timeline.


Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x?

It should have no impact. I expect the 777X to use the same NiCad batteries the 777 does so there would be no need to pull engineers off that project to assist the 787 team.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-10 16:09:15 and read 12819 times.

The "new" in the new 777X-9 is going to be wings and engines plus a few other minor things. It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2013-02-10 16:17:27 and read 12747 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

That is not going to happen-the fuselage diameter is one of the most difficult metrics to change. A different diameter usually means a clean sheet design. They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-02-10 16:40:58 and read 12615 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
If anything they are stealing experts who could be working on 777X to help solve the 787 problem

I understand your logic on this one however I would assume only engineers that would be able to contribute (Electrical etc) would be pulled. The rest of the engineers can continue working on the 777X design as they wouldn't be able to help with the 787 woes anyways.

Boeing needs some big good things to happen this year so maybe TC can put his money down and Boeing can formally launch in Q3 or Q4.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2013-02-10 23:14:51 and read 10631 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
I expect the 777X to use the same NiCad batteries the 777 does so there would be no need to pull engineers off that project to assist the 787 team.

I thought Boeing had outsourced the design of the 787 battery, rather than design it in house, which is believed to be part of the problem with that battery.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-02-10 23:34:01 and read 10468 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
The "new" in the new 777X-9 is going to be wings and engines plus a few other minor things. It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

Actually they will by 4 inches by doing this:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

Read this on a flightgloabl article

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-02-11 00:00:18 and read 10188 times.

It is a good idea for Boeing to 'carve out' some extra width from the 777 but I don't see how it will make any noticeable difference to seat comfort.


Its less than half an inch per seat, they would probably be better off widening the aisles, it would 'feel' more spacious, improve accessibility and most importantly make an emergency evacuation a lot easier.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: ncfc99
Posted 2013-02-11 00:27:21 and read 9963 times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
So it seems Mr Clark is being overly optimistic, or perhaps he's been told that Boeing's initial 777X estimate was pessimistic and it'll be on offer sooner rather than later.

The quote below, whilst not official, matches the timeline TC is indicating. The quote was made in November (3months ago) that the 777X will be at least a year away, now TC is stating 6-9months, which is about a year.


"Boeing appears to be at least a year away from offering a new version of the 777, Reuters reported in November, quoting people familiar with talks between the aircraft maker and its customers"

It does say at least a year, so maybe this is a veiled hurry up from TC as he is ready to order some aircraft in Q4 this year (let me order the 777X or we'll order from somewhere else).

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: Revelation
Posted 2013-02-11 07:00:17 and read 6906 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 5):
I understand your logic on this one however I would assume only engineers that would be able to contribute (Electrical etc) would be pulled. The rest of the engineers can continue working on the 777X design as they wouldn't be able to help with the 787 woes anyways.

Again, I have no direct knowledge and have never worked for Boeing, but I have been a part of "all hands on deck" efforts where people were drafted into crisis situations without regard to their area of expertise. Usually the draftees did "grunt work" that any competent engineer should be able to do with a bit of supervision, like running or overseeing testing, while the "experts" focused on things like analyzing the data, deciding which data to gather next, etc. It's typically not at all popular with the draftees or the experts, but management wants to be seen to be "doing something" about the problem. As above, it's typical that the draftees come from products not yet released because those don't have hard deadlines yet.

I have no idea if this is what is happening at Boeing, but I do read reports of the "hundreds of engineers" that Boeing is applying to the 787 crisis and wonder where they all came from. Clearly a program like 777X would not be halted due to the 787 crisis, but it clearly could be asked to lend some resources to help with the 787 crisis.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: ytz
Posted 2013-02-11 07:17:20 and read 6716 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
That is not going to happen-the fuselage diameter is one of the most difficult metrics to change. A different diameter usually means a clean sheet design. They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

From a pax perspective, something better than nothing.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 8):
It is a good idea for Boeing to 'carve out' some extra width from the 777 but I don't see how it will make any noticeable difference to seat comfort.

Its less than half an inch per seat, they would probably be better off widening the aisles, it would 'feel' more spacious, improve accessibility and most importantly make an emergency evacuation a lot easier.

When you have 17" seats with 10-abreast layouts, an extra half inch is sincerely welcome relief. Wider aisles would also be welcome. Something better than nothing.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2013-02-11 07:29:24 and read 6564 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

Read this on a flightgloabl article

Good. Any much more is practically begging the airlines to add yet another seat to the cross section.

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-02-11 07:40:29 and read 6412 times.

If any consequence, I could see some Engineering capacities to be free form 787-9 and ten as Long as it is not clear what the future of the 788 is.
But TC is known to speak a lot, but rarely anything that makes sense...

Topic: RE: 777-x Less Than A Year Away?
Username: EPA001
Posted 2013-02-12 03:47:19 and read 2591 times.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13):
But TC is known to speak a lot, but rarely anything that makes sense...

Well, he is running a very successful airline, so anything he says is meaningful in one way or the other. Sometimes he has exaggerated things politically, but usually his remarks are telling. And the industry usually listens. But not always.  


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