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Topic: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: GEsubsea
Posted 2013-02-12 17:29:07 and read 13609 times.

French national carrier Air France-KLM will launch three new destinations in Asia this year, which will be served by its partner airline KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Country manager for Malaysia Estee Ng said KLM will commence flights to Fukuoka, Japan, and two other destinations later this year. Anyone know who the other two cities might be?

http://themalaysianreserve.com/main/...to-launch-3-new-asian-destinations

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-02-12 18:45:47 and read 13246 times.

I would expect at least one of the two further destinations to be in China, where AF/KL already serves Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu, Xiamen, Hangzhou and Wuhan apart from Hongkong. KLM also serve Taipei. There are plenty of options left on the mainland, so even both additional destinations could be in China. Other than that, I believe that Busan and Surabaya are potential candidates.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: hoons90
Posted 2013-02-12 19:13:23 and read 13096 times.

My guess would be Tianjin, Nagoya or maybe even Dalian.

I'd love to see Busan. However, Busan may have operational limitations due to steep terrain in the vicinity of the airport, with wind patterns usually necessitating takeoffs to be in that direction. I've heard that's one of the issues holding LH back from going nonstop.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-12 22:44:08 and read 12492 times.

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 2):
My guess would be Tianjin, Nagoya or maybe even Dalian.

Nagoya seems like a likely choice IMO

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: rwsea
Posted 2013-02-12 23:27:39 and read 12290 times.

SGN is an option given the Skyteam connection. KLM seems better suited to the route than AF given the higher density configuration (notwithstanding the historical connections between Vietnam and France).

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-02-13 00:10:55 and read 12047 times.

The newspaper article contains a number of inaccuracies, quite normal for today's journalism.

The article reports on the re-opening of AF's CDG-KUL route and calls this AF/KLM's 15th Asian destination.

'''The KL-Paris route, which is the 15th Asian destination for Air France-KLM'''.

In reality the re-opening of this AF route adds no additional destination to the AF/KLM network as KUL is already served by KLM.

''With the synergy of our sister airline KLM serving other destinations in Asia, we would see the KL-Paris route having a high passenger take-up rate,”

The logic behind this last quote is lost on me. Yes, KLM serves other Asian destinations, but so does AF. What the newspaper should have reported is that KLM is the largest European carrier in KUL and the airline supports AF's restart of the CDG route, as follows:

The new 3x/weekly AF service KUL-CDG starting in April 2013 in fact replaces 3x of 10x/weekly KLM departure KUL-AMS, the KLM flights will be withdrawn for the Summer. So AF's market entry is in fact support by the withdrawal of KLM capacity.

As for the additional KLM destinations in Asia, let me add to the guesses and rumors. Like FUK, we are looking for unique relatively low-yielding destinations, that are not yet served by any of the ME3 carriers:

- Surabaya - (would be a re-opening for KLM)
- Medan - (would be a re-opening of route, was GA)
- Nanjing
- Kunming
- Fuzhou

But it could also be:

- Nagoya - (would be a re-opening for KLM)
- Hanoi - to compete with AY, but strengthens SKYTEAM cooperation with VN

[Edited 2013-02-13 00:23:08]

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: Ratypus
Posted 2013-02-13 05:43:59 and read 10953 times.

"SGN is an option given the Skyteam connection. KLM seems better suited to the route than AF given the higher density configuration (notwithstanding the historical connections between Vietnam and France)."

AF already fly to both Saigon and Hanoi though, don't they - so SGN on KLM wouldn't be a new destination for AF...?

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: santos
Posted 2013-02-13 07:19:19 and read 9587 times.

What about Xi'an?
No one has mentioned it yet

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: runway23
Posted 2013-02-13 07:47:11 and read 9142 times.

I'd go with Tianjin as a likely destination, the business links are certainly there.

Wonder if KLM might not be tempted by RGN. Myanmar has seen a lot of new airlines in the past 12 months and presently no European airline serves the airport, the closest thing to Europe is the service on QR.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: sankaps
Posted 2013-02-13 08:34:22 and read 8525 times.

How about the possiblity of new Indian destinations? India is in Asia too.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: SASMD82
Posted 2013-02-13 10:53:45 and read 7105 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 9):

How about the possiblity of new Indian destinations? India is in Asia too.

No, they cancelled Hydrabad a couple of years ago. A very difficult market enforced them to serve only Delhi and Mumbai.
I put my money on extra destinations in China. They could have served Busan and Nagoya much earlier before. Surubaya is not likely -> Garuda is their partner in this region.

What about a seasonal service to Phuket? Or back to Colombo. Bagdad?

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: DIJKKIJK
Posted 2013-02-13 10:54:00 and read 7105 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 9):
How about the possiblity of new Indian destinations? India is in Asia too.

Quite impossible. The Indian market is now more or less completely saturated, yield wise.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-02-13 13:50:32 and read 5440 times.

Any chance that Urumqi will be the lucky one? I've heard they want a service to Europe and have a growing horicultural industry (at least, that's what I've heard).

Quoting santos (Reply 7):
What about Xi'an?
No one has mentioned it yet

Not likely, Xi'an will be served by Finnair. I doubt that it can sustain two European airlines.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 8):
I'd go with Tianjin as a likely destination, the business links are certainly there.

Didn't LH serve TSN a few years ago?

Quoting sankaps (Reply 9):
How about the possiblity of new Indian destinations? India is in Asia too.

Not going to happen now they're linking up with EY.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 5):
- Nagoya - (would be a re-opening for KLM)

With FUK opening this year I don't think Nagoya will be on KLs list for this year.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: okAY
Posted 2013-02-13 14:18:23 and read 5179 times.

Quoting GEsubsea (Thread starter):
French national carrier Air France-KLM

Is it just me that finds that a little odd? I know the companies are together but they still have two different brand identities AF and KL which are the respective national carriers of France and Holland, am I right?

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2013-02-13 14:45:33 and read 5011 times.

I had earlier also considered NGO, but I incorrectly assumed that NGO CDG by JL still existed with an AF codeshare, which seems not to be the case, so NGO may be an option from Paris, although there is of course the new AMS FUK flight already to Japan. Would any future move of an existing NRT route to HND be considered a new destination? JL already operates CDG HND in codershare with AF.

In China, I believe Kunming makes a good chance for a Paris service. KMG is an MU hub and the cooperation between AF and MU seems to be quite strong. I also considered Chongqing, but AY already operates HEL CKG.

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: miaintl
Posted 2013-02-14 08:21:01 and read 3547 times.

Once AZ becomes part of the AF/KL group do you guys see it serving all those Asian destinations from FCO to compliment AF/KL?

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: factsonly
Posted 2013-02-14 09:09:57 and read 3438 times.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 15):
Once AZ becomes part of the AF/KL group do you guys see it serving all those Asian destinations from FCO to compliment AF/KL?


May be for the biggest destinations, but it is less likely, as the opposite is already happening.

Az codeshares extensively with AF/KLM already. In addition a lot of European regional destinations, AZ serves many long-haul destinations through codeshares with AF/KL/DL, here are some examples from Amsterdam :

- dep. 09:25 Cape Town AZ 2932 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on KLM)
- dep. 11:35 Panama City AZ 2940 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on KLM)
- dep. 12:25 Lima AZ 3770 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on KLM)
- dep. 14:30 Dubai AZ 2920 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on KLM)

...and from Paris CDG:

- dep. 10.25 Seattle AZ 3365 Alitalia B767 (codeshare on Delta)
- dep. 10.30 New York AZ 5911 Alitalia B767 (codeshare on Delta)
- dep. 11.10 Los Angeles AZ 3542 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on AF)
- dep. 10.45 Miami AZ 3650 Alitalia B747 (codeshare on AF)
- dep. 13.10 Hanoi AZ 3001 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on AF)
- dep. 13.50 Bangkok AZ 2894 Alitalia B777 (codeshare on AF)

etc.....

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: PW100
Posted 2013-02-14 10:07:20 and read 3314 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
Would any future move of an existing NRT route to HND be considered a new destination?

Interesting thought. I could swear that I've read somewhere that KLM (or actually, the Netherlands . . . ) hold 10 Tokyo slots, of which three may be transferred to HND at operators discretion. Seem unable to find that at the moment though.

I think KLM only operates a single daily NRT rotation at the moment.

Rgds,
PW100

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-02-14 12:00:31 and read 3123 times.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 17):
I think KLM only operates a single daily NRT rotation at the moment.

Yes, but this Summer it will be 11 weekly. AFAIK KL is allowed to have 14 weekly flights to Tokyo, of which 7 are HND rights. However, AF/KL havbe opted not to fly to HND (and instead AF codeshares).

Topic: RE: KLM To Launch 3 New Asian Destinations
Username: miaintl
Posted 2013-02-14 15:12:07 and read 2862 times.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 16):

So long story short you just see AZ being a feeder carrier and nothing else?


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