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Topic: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-13 07:54:25 and read 6866 times.

Previous order was 12 firm with 12 options, 4 of those options switch to firms, making 16 firm orders with 8 options, starting in 2017.

With the 757's sticking around, my question is ... are there plans to expand Keflavik Airport? That's going to be a lot of planes at a handful of gates in the peak season.


Icelandair Group and Boeing finalize orders for 737 MAX

[Edited 2013-02-13 08:49:22 by SA7700]

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: GBerg
Posted 2013-02-13 08:40:04 and read 6629 times.

From Icelandair Announcement "The aircraft will be delivered in 2018-2021" so how many 757 will be in the fleet then?
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: bos2laf
Posted 2013-02-13 08:47:28 and read 6588 times.

Quoting GBerg (Reply 1):
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.

The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-13 09:49:14 and read 6342 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

I would not expect KEF becoming a major hub as I do not expect Icelandair becoming an major airline.

But for a small airline like Icelandair it is a small but expanding hub. Icelandair offers more North American destinations from KEF than there are direct connections into North America from OSL or ARL.
When you look at Norway and Sweden it is not the worst way to get to DEN or SEA via KEF.

The main growth for Icelandair comes from connecting trafic.
Icelandair increased seats by 15% this winter and added this January two B 757 and will fly with 18 B 757 passenger planes this summer.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: ju068
Posted 2013-02-13 09:58:51 and read 6297 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 3):
Icelandair increased seats by 15% this winter and added this January two B 757 and will fly with 18 B 757 passenger planes this summer.

Do you know where these two birds came from?

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

Well Icelandair does carry a lot of tourists to Iceland, so I guess that helps a lot. I remember when I flew from Copenhagen to Kéflavik, roughly 80% of our flight was made up of connecting passengers.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-13 10:08:10 and read 6240 times.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):
Do you know where these two birds came from?

The last three are B 757-223(WL) and are coming from AA, ln 423, 337 and I think 379

[Edited 2013-02-13 10:38:29]

[Edited 2013-02-13 10:39:14]

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: ju068
Posted 2013-02-13 10:15:45 and read 6195 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 5):

Great, thanks for that.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-13 10:18:35 and read 6165 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

I wouldn't say a major hub, but I'd say yes, KEF is serving as a connecting hub for a number of destinations. Wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller cities added from North America... I'll go out on a limb and say with the 737MAX ... perhaps Ottawa and/or even something like Hartford/Springfield?

Also, Iceland Naturally, Iceland Tourism, etc. is looking to build up tourism to the country outside of the peak summer season. A couple of events, such as Iceland Airwaves, Bears on Ice, the New Year's Celebration, are helping to anchor interest in off season events and tourism in the country. Airwaves has seen tremendous growth in the past couple of years, be interesting to see what this festival becomes.

Iceland's also looking to make a push to attract tech/data centers with its geothermal energy resources.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-13 10:34:50 and read 6114 times.

Quoting GBerg (Reply 1):
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.

  

KEF has a rich history of charter flights between N. America and Europe (usually Luxembourg in the 60s). No reason why a well-planned hub-and-spoke system couldn't work in this era of air travel, IMO.


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Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: a3xx900
Posted 2013-02-13 10:58:36 and read 5995 times.

While Icelandair is a nice airline (was on FRA-KEF-IAD last summer... really good "Saga" class, but that is another story), KEF is one of the worst airports I have experienced so far. It might be small and connections are quick, but it's complicated (a lot of people didn't know where to go) and, well, small! While waiting to board my KEF-IAD flight the terminal was PACKED with people, and no seating available, at least I did not see any. So if Icelandair expands its operations, KEF really needs some makeover to handle more pax.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2013-02-13 14:20:15 and read 5603 times.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 9):
So if Icelandair expands its operations, KEF really needs some makeover to handle more pax.

My thoughts exactly. I loved my flights with them, but KEF was one hell of a mess. More so post-security and post-food court. Once you enter the gate area corridors it's insanely cramped and the lack of seating / waiting area is dumbfounding. There were simultaneous flights boarding to various destinations and the gates were packed with people who resembled herding cows.

That said, KEF was by no means a representation of Iceland - a country that is incredible in almost every aspect you can think of.

Aeroflot777

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-13 14:27:27 and read 5568 times.

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 9):
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 10):

I was there in November and the terminal was quite packed for the two flights to JFK, the one to Boston, and the one to Toronto. Honestly, I'd love to see it in the summer rush sometime - I bet it's just one hella busy place.

My question though - do all flights from the states arrive at the end gates, or do they arrive at the 'first long hallway area' (gates 1-6?) and then passengers get funneled downstairs to come back up through passport control? Or how does that work with those particular gates?

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-13 15:48:43 and read 5431 times.

The Airport is not that small. It has to overcame two problems.

One.
There are three groups of passengers having to be kept apart.
Schengen PAX, PAX outside Schengen and Pax to the USA.
Different rules regarding passport control and weapons search.

Two.
The flights from Icelandair come in a wave and leave in a wave.
In the morning first you have the flights from North America arriving and than the flights to Europe leaving.
In the afternoon it is the other way round. The rest of the time it is mostly quiet with just a few planes coming and going.
In the Summer you have a third wave. The tourist flights from Europe, Air Berlin, Germanwings, Nikki and so on. They come in around midnight and leave between 01:00 and 02:00. They use the time while many European airports are closed for the night to squeeze in one flight to Iceland going out before and arriving after the night closing.

If Icelandair would either stretch the waves or running multiple waves the airport could accommodate more traffic without an expansion . An expansion is in the planing stages but there is no decision if and when.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: eaa3
Posted 2013-02-13 22:07:57 and read 5050 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 12):
If Icelandair would either stretch the waves or running multiple waves the airport could accommodate more traffic without an expansion . An expansion is in the planing stages but there is no decision if and when.

Having multiple transfer times would undermine the whole concept of a hub-and-spoke system.

I think that we will see the building of a new terminal soon. Icelandair and the airport authority have been talking about it for some time. In order to expand the hub-and-spoke system they need to get more room, more gates and more floor space. There's more than enough space at the airport for a new terminal. Additionally they are considering building a new runway to run parallel to 20/2.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-14 02:13:16 and read 4331 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone.
Quoting eaa3 (Reply 13):
Having multiple transfer times would undermine the whole concept of a hub-and-spoke system

Dubai does pretty well doing these exact things..... Just saying, not trying to call you out at all.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: Vinniewinnie
Posted 2013-02-14 02:26:39 and read 4236 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 12):
Two.
The flights from Icelandair come in a wave and leave in a wave.
In the morning first you have the flights from North America arriving and than the flights to Europe leaving.
In the afternoon it is the other way round. The rest of the time it is mostly quiet with just a few planes coming and going.

I thought there were 2 waves to certain destinations in the same direction: One in the morning one in the afternoon. I might be wrong though...

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-14 04:45:49 and read 3646 times.

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 15):
I thought there were 2 waves to certain destinations in the same direction: One in the morning one in the afternoon. I might be wrong though...

In the wintertime they only do LHR and CPH twice daly.

All the North American destinations are only once a day if they are daily.

In the summer you see a second wave with LHR, AMS, CDG, OSL, ARN twice and CPH four times a day.
In the west they double up on JFK and BOS.

In the Summer they have nine North American and 30 European destinations most of them not daily all in the morning wave east and afternoon wave west.

After loosing money in 2008 and 2009 they turned profitable again 2010 and had with 2011 and 2012 two really good years.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2013-02-14 05:10:49 and read 3492 times.

These aircraft are ordered by the group so it's possible that they will probably not be all operated by Icelandair itself at the same time.
The group has a long history of providing leases to other carriers so i would expect that some of these aircraft will operate for third parties.
There is nothing in that press release talking about significant expansion of the KEF hub operations so i don't know why this is being assumed by posters.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-14 05:39:42 and read 3318 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 16):

a few weeks ago someone posted the gate use chart for O'Hare terminal 5. be neat too see one for the KEF terminal.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: eaa3
Posted 2013-02-14 06:11:09 and read 3155 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
Dubai does pretty well doing these exact things..... Just saying, not trying to call you out at all.

Dubai has multiple transfer times, 3 I believe, but those transfer times are big enough to be sustained. But people that are transferring generally just transfer within one transfer period. They don't wait around for very long.

What I mean is that it wouldn't make sense to have one transfer time spread over a long period because then people have to wait a lot. It's fine though to have dual or triple independent transfer times.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-14 12:13:10 and read 2408 times.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 17):
These aircraft are ordered by the group so it's possible that they will probably not be all operated by Icelandair itself at the same time.
The group has a long history of providing leases to other carriers so i would expect that some of these aircraft will operate for third parties.
There is nothing in that press release talking about significant expansion of the KEF hub operations so i don't know why this is being assumed by posters.

The Icelandic airline wet leasing out air planes is Air Atlanta Icelandic (17 x B747 as it is).

Icelandair Group the mother company of Icelandair consists of:
Icelandair: running 17 x B757-200, 1 x B757-300
Icelandair Cargo: 4 x B757-200 + the belly freight on the passenger planes
Air Iceland (Flugfelag Islands): 6 x Fokker 50 and 2 x DHC-8-200
Loftleiðir Icelandic: charter operations uses the planes of Icelandair
IGS is their Groundservice in KEF
Hotels + Travelagents

Icelandair grew about 15% from 2011 to 2012. And the growth January 2012 to 2013 seems to be over 20%.
I assume the above mentioned B737MAX are really to expand their fleet.

They still have one B 787 on order after having sold three slots to Norwegian.

Icelandair I think wet leases out 1 x 767-300ER and leases out 2 x 767-300ER and 2 x 757-200.
This information may be old they could have sold them.

[Edited 2013-02-14 12:18:26]

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-14 12:38:22 and read 2344 times.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 11):
My question though - do all flights from the states arrive at the end gates, or do they arrive at the 'first long hallway area' (gates 1-6?) and then passengers get funneled downstairs to come back up through passport control? Or how does that work with those particular gates?

The Gates one to four are used for Schengen flights only.

Gates 5 and 6 can be used for Schengen or (under a differnt gate number) for outside Schengen but not USA.
You have to pass through passport control.

The other gates 7,8,9,10,11,12,14 and 15 can be used for Schengen, outside Schengen and USA.

On http://www.kefairport.is/English/ you find a map of the airport.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: odwyerpw
Posted 2013-02-14 16:26:45 and read 2124 times.

Always good to see more MAX news. That's 16 more planes firmed up!

The current 752s seat 183. The 9Max will seat 172 in Islandair Config, while the 8Max seats 153.
It will be interesting to see how these planes with smaller capacity are deployed.

Peter

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-02-14 16:57:46 and read 2079 times.

Quoting odwyerpw (Reply 22):
The current 752s seat 183. The 9Max will seat 172 in Islandair Config, while the 8Max seats 153.
It will be interesting to see how these planes with smaller capacity are deployed.

The Icelandair B757-200 seats 22 C and 167 Y together 189. The B757-300 seats 18 C and 210 Y together 228.

I am sure they will increase frequency. There are quite a few destinations were there is now not a daily flight.
SFB, DEN, SEA and ANC will still see the B 757-200.

[Edited 2013-02-14 17:02:07]

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-02-14 17:37:08 and read 2012 times.

Maybe we will see increases in frequency to places like JFk and BOS?

JFK could possibly retain the second flight in the winter but have it downguaged to a 737-8MAX.

Topic: RE: Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-15 06:08:24 and read 1805 times.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 21):
The other gates 7,8,9,10,11,12,14 and 15 can be used for Schengen, outside Schengen and USA.

interesting.
So in the summer 5 and 6 knock out Toronto and Halifax.
7 to 15 would be a pretty tight fit then with the USA flights. That has to be some quick pushing in and pushing out of some planes when they all come in or get ready to load out.
It's a fascinating little airport - I love how it's laid out and thought out.


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