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Topic: Will US Drop *A?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-02-13 18:12:38 and read 15655 times.

I know this is a pretty short notice, since we will more than likely find out tomorrow. But the question is will US drop Star Alliance before this merger goes through?

I think as an ideal situation for this to happen, but a many people know dropping/joining an alliance is a very long process. But the question is; could it happen soon enough?

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-02-13 18:16:52 and read 15620 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Thread starter):
but a many people know dropping/joining an alliance is a very long process.

Is it? I don't remember Continental taking that long to leave SkyTeam for *A.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: einsteinboricua
Posted 2013-02-13 18:22:16 and read 15528 times.

For now, business as usual. Eventually US will ask to be released.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-02-13 18:31:29 and read 15437 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):

I just did a quick Wiki search, and it said that Continental decided to drop Skyteam in June of 2008, and resigned from Skyteam in October of 2009. So I believe it is a little more of a lengthy process.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):

And that's what I was assuming, but this is the first time this type of merger is occurring in the US. Where both of the airlines are not in the same alliance, prior to the merger.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: chepos
Posted 2013-02-13 18:32:06 and read 15406 times.

Most prob within a couple of months they will transition into OneWorld, they will operate as a 1W carrier until full integration with AA.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: american 767
Posted 2013-02-13 18:38:57 and read 15301 times.

If US had started the process of leaving Star last year, they'd be joining One World already this summer. That is what they should have done a year ago. I don't see AA going to Star.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: einsteinboricua
Posted 2013-02-13 18:45:11 and read 15208 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
Where both of the airlines are not in the same alliance, prior to the merger.

It's not the first trans-alliance merger. Shanghai left *A after being incorporated into China Eastern which was joining SkyTeam. BMI left *A after being acquired by BA. And Canadian Airlines was acquired by *A founder Air Canada.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: boeing773ER
Posted 2013-02-13 19:08:13 and read 14976 times.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 6):

Well, you didn't take my entire quote. I said in the US

I'm well aware of these other mergers, but I didn't know if the process would be a little bit different in the US.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2013-02-13 20:42:48 and read 14480 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Thread starter):

Leaving an alliance is not a long process but it does have procedures. in dropping the alliance all travelers booked onward VIA said alliance have got to be notified or offered the chance to re-book on an alliance carrier that does get them where they want TO go. after that? they stop taking reservations on the alliance they're leaving and announce they're joining a new alliance where they intend to take reservations, Then comes the long process of revenue accounting and
Passenger accounting on who is going where on Whom and when.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: dtwlax
Posted 2013-02-13 22:27:18 and read 14162 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):
Is it? I don't remember Continental taking that long to leave SkyTeam for *A.

It took CO more than a year to leave Skyteam.
But was out of Skyteam and into Star well before the merger with UA was announced.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2013-02-13 22:34:57 and read 14105 times.

US will leave Star. For one, the AA/BA JV is just too good of a thing to pass-up. And AA is a much larger partner in OW than US is in Star.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: T5towbar
Posted 2013-02-14 00:24:59 and read 13836 times.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
just did a quick Wiki search, and it said that Continental decided to drop Skyteam in June of 2008, and resigned from Skyteam in October of 2009. So I believe it is a little more of a lengthy process.

That was because of the DL/NW merger. Remember, NW held the "Golden Share" of stock which prevented CO from doing anything. (NW brought CO into Sky Team in the first place, IIRC.) Once NW was bought by DL, CO bought back the "Golden Share". Then CO made the move to Star to get closer with UA. And you know the rest....

But I would think that this process would be expedited so to speak that US goes to One World. I don't think that would be any problems. US didn't have a very large presence in Star, or had JV's, so on paper, moving to OW should be a lot easier. For the case of the hole in the SE network for UA; like a previous poster said, IAD and IAH would have to do double duty to cover the South East that US covered with their large CLT hub. They (US) went to a lot of the smaller cities in the South East which was code shared with UA.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-02-14 01:40:09 and read 13625 times.

How quickly it gets done depends on how cooperating the parties are. Even if the Star Alliance contract has specific exit terms, there's nothing precluding US Air from executing a faster exit provided Star and the other carriers agree.

This goodwill is not guaranteed, however. For example, when Brussels Airlines was ready to join Star, it wasn't leaving an alliance but it had very close ties with American. Because AA was presumably benefiting a lot from these ties, it forced Brussels Airlines to execute their contract in full until the very last day.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: 777law
Posted 2013-02-14 04:59:21 and read 12506 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 12):
This goodwill is not guaranteed, however. For example, when Brussels Airlines was ready to join Star, it wasn't leaving an alliance but it had very close ties with American. Because AA was presumably benefiting a lot from these ties, it forced Brussels Airlines to execute their contract in full until the very last day.

Yeah, but why would any *A member want to keep US in the alliance any longer than necessary to orchastrate an orderly exit? Since US launched the merger bid with AA it's been a foregone conclusion that it would leave *A if the merger went through. And since the UA/CO merger US has been pretty much a bit player in *A. I can't imagine any *A member demanding US stay in given that most have probably already assumed its exit.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: CaptCufflinks
Posted 2013-02-14 05:01:11 and read 12480 times.

I got an email from Virgin Atlantic's Flying Club a few months back stating that US Airways would cease to be a flying club partner eligible for earning miles. This was shortly after Delta bought the 49% share in the company, so I had assumed it was something to do with that, and/or, the fact that US would be merging with AA and the reward miles situation would get a little tricky owing to One World and Virgin relations ('No way AA/BA' sprung to mind).

Long story short - I am assuming that US will join or just be absorbed into the AA agreement with One World and that'll be that.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: hohd
Posted 2013-02-14 05:53:08 and read 11767 times.

With US airways exit, Star may want to look for some minor partner in the USA. They should be looking at Alaska or JetBlue. At the least United should be having a frequent flyer relationship with both or either of these.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: vgnatl747
Posted 2013-02-14 06:11:18 and read 11488 times.

The announcement on usairways.com specifically states oneworld as the path going forward.

To all of the comments about the effort related in leaving an alliance. Generally speaking, the effort required (especially on the IT side) is more focused around how long it takes to configure everything for the new alliance, not necessarily the exit of the current alliance.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: NorthStarDC4M
Posted 2013-02-14 06:56:42 and read 10814 times.

Quoting hohd (Reply 15):
With US airways exit, Star may want to look for some minor partner in the USA. They should be looking at Alaska or JetBlue. At the least United should be having a frequent flyer relationship with both or either of these.

Well since the USA is basically going to be one mega carrier per alliance: UA/Star, AA+US/OneWorld, Delta/SkyTeam... I don't think they really NEED to find another member. If they were to JetBlue would seem the more logical option with their tie up with Lufthansa, but it's not really a big plus to the alliance?

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: msp747
Posted 2013-02-14 06:58:47 and read 10788 times.

Quoting hohd (Reply 15):
With US airways exit, Star may want to look for some minor partner in the USA. They should be looking at Alaska or JetBlue. At the least United should be having a frequent flyer relationship with both or either of these

The problem with both of these choices is how cozy they are with the competition. AA either owns a piece of B6, or has a strong partnership, if I am not mistaken. If that stays the case, I don't think AA will let them run off to team up with UA in an alliance. AS also has a strong partnership with AA, as well as DL. That, along with the overlap UA and AS have on the west coast would appear to be a deterrent in my opinion.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: STT757
Posted 2013-02-14 07:06:39 and read 10649 times.

Quoting msp747 (Reply 18):
AA either owns a piece of B6, or has a strong partnership,

AA has no investment in B6.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2013-02-14 07:41:20 and read 10132 times.

The merger will take some time so I suspect that US will stay in *A for a few more months. US' exit from Star has been speculated for years, even without a merger, so I am sure both sides are will prepared. Even if US suddenly departs, they will probably have to honor Star agreements through the end of the year.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: jayunited
Posted 2013-02-14 07:48:43 and read 10014 times.

Co made the jump to STAR while the merger was still making it rounds in the rumor mills and while the executives were working on the details behind the scene. If I'm not mistaken I believe that UA gave CO 4 gates at ORD just days before or a few days after (I do not exactly remember the order) CO officially joined STAR. Thats when ORD employees knew merger talks were serious. But is seems like CO left SKY really fast because the ground work has already taken place. If US has been working on an exit strategy from STAR and I suppose that they have because they have been the the one pursuing this merger from the beginning I assume that US could exit STAR really quickly.

But I think the speed at which they exit STAR is dependent upon how quickly they can get into ONE world. If US has been working with ONE behind the scenes laying the ground work for this transition/merger then this transition could go quickly but if that process just started a few months or weeks ago then they might have to stick with STAR for a while until they get everything in order with ONE.

Quick questions just came to my mind: If US has just started the process with ONE and with most people agreeing that this merger will go thru how long will STAR be patience and allow US to stay before they ask US to leave? OR would STAR never ask that question to begin with and just allow US to stay until US is ready to leave?

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: tymnbalewne
Posted 2013-02-14 08:23:10 and read 9452 times.

Just to be contrarian, (and I do think it's a forgone conclusion that US/AA will be in 1W), but I wonder if *A would want to keep the combined carrier? Although *A has UA, for them to deny 1W access to a huge market would be a massive blow to 1W.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: LOWS
Posted 2013-02-14 09:12:52 and read 8753 times.

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 22):
Just to be contrarian, (and I do think it's a forgone conclusion that US/AA will be in 1W), but I wonder if *A would want to keep the combined carrier? Although *A has UA, for them to deny 1W access to a huge market would be a massive blow to 1W.

Yes, but it would likely never get past the anti-trust regulators.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-02-14 09:49:11 and read 8245 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
Quoting msp747 (Reply 18):
AA either owns a piece of B6, or has a strong partnership,

AA has no investment in B6.

I believe that LH has an interest in B6, financially speaking.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-02-14 10:14:58 and read 8097 times.

Quoting 777law (Reply 13):
I can't imagine any *A member demanding US stay in given that most have probably already assumed its exit.

They could though, if only to hamper a competitor. Business is business...

Quoting jayunited (Reply 21):
how long will STAR be patience and allow US to stay before they ask US to leave? OR would STAR never ask that question to begin with and just allow US to stay until US is ready to leave?

There needs to be a time-definite date for US' exit from Star. As much as US must reconfigure its internal system for its new alliance, its former alliance partners need to reconfigure theirs to exclude US. They will not be sitting around on their hands waiting until some random day US is good and ready to jump into action. There will be a date in the future when US will be out of Star, ready or not, because even if US isn't ready, its former partners will evict it from their end...

What that date is, is what lawyers and contracts are for.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-02-14 10:19:16 and read 8080 times.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
Eventually US will ask to be released.

Eventually US will cease to exist.

Quoting CaptCufflinks (Reply 14):

Long story short - I am assuming that US will join or just be absorbed into the AA agreement with One World and that'll be that.

Given the new carrier is going to be called AMERICAN AIRLINES... and not Us Airways, I'd presume the AA alliances will be kept.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: n126dl
Posted 2013-02-14 11:06:31 and read 7611 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 26):
Eventually US will cease to exist.

US Airways' membership in Star will cease to exist when US ceases to exist as it becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of American Airlines and then is corporately disbanded. Or, however the new company is named, legally, with US and AA as subsidiaries, one disappears, etc.. not sure. At least, that's what the other mergers have caused. The "new" American will continue to be a OneWorld member.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-02-14 11:40:58 and read 7173 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 26):
Given the new carrier is going to be called AMERICAN AIRLINES... and not Us Airways, I'd presume the AA alliances will be kept.

That's old news, BUT. As with the America West/US Airways merger a few years ago, US is actually the acquiring carrier. AA is larger and the name better known, so they're using the AA name (and, presumably, ultimately their operating certificate). Management, thought, is primarily coming from US Airways.

Jeff

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-02-14 11:52:03 and read 7011 times.

Quoting n126dl (Reply 27):
US Airways' membership in Star will cease to exist when US ceases to exist as it becomes a wholly-owned subsidiary of American Airlines and then is corporately disbanded.

So in 5 or 6 or 7 years then?

US Airways' membership in Star will not end with the disappearance of US Airways Group Inc because one way or another, the company will continue to exist for years to come. It may very well become the operating entity post merger, much like the new United Airlines is the old Continental Airlines with a new name. If it does not, the company will still exist to wind down the activities and sell the assets not transferred during the merger, and for a laundry list of other legal and corporate reasons. If I am not mistaken, Northwest Airlines Corp is still in existence even though the merger with Delta was completed in 2010.

US Airways' membership in Star will end at the earliest of two dates: the one set forth as the end of the current membership contract, or the one US Airways and Star agree upon as the final membership date. It has nothing to do with the legal status of the corporation.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: anstar
Posted 2013-02-14 11:55:35 and read 6980 times.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 28):
That's old news, BUT. As with the America West/US Airways merger a few years ago, US is actually the acquiring carrier. AA is larger and the name better known, so they're using the AA name (and, presumably, ultimately their operating certificate). Management, thought, is primarily coming from US Airways.

So in a round about way America West has been able to take over US Airways and now American Airlines! Well merge/takeover read it as you wish.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: SQ22
Posted 2013-02-14 12:26:23 and read 6570 times.

I guess that helps a bit:

quote

8. Can I continue to earn and redeem miles for travel awards with Star Alliance partners?

Yes – until the merger closes, you can continue to earn and redeem mileage with our Star Alliance partners.

Unquote

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/about...newamerican.html?cint=update_21132

Taken from the FAQ section.

[Edited 2013-02-14 12:30:17]

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: jreuschl
Posted 2013-02-14 15:03:36 and read 5077 times.

"Customers will have access to more choices and better service across a larger global network, as well as the expanded international opportunities that come with a stronger oneworld Alliance."

Of course, they want customers to feel that oneworld is better than *A!

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-02-14 15:24:56 and read 4878 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 30):
So in a round about way America West has been able to take over US Airways and now American Airlines! Well merge/takeover read it as you wish.

A little quip that's been making the rounds:

"America West: The little airline that took over the world!"

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-02-14 15:55:33 and read 4623 times.

BD left Star in something like 3 months, so it can be done fast. Personally I would expect the official leaving will be the day of the merger completion (something like 6 months).

The question then become whether US formally join OW (an expensive procedure) or just wait as a non-aligned carrier to be absorbed into AA. In the meantime Dividend Miles can partner up with BA/LA/CX/QF etc independently of alliance membership.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2013-02-14 16:03:02 and read 4539 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 34):
The question then become whether US formally join OW (an expensive procedure) or just wait as a non-aligned carrier to be absorbed into AA. In the meantime Dividend Miles can partner up with BA/LA/CX/QF etc independently of alliance membership.

There is no need for US to join oneworld. Making Dividend Miles freely convertible with AAdvantage Miles, matching elite statuses, and slapping an AA codeshare number on all US Airways flights would be sufficient to make US a de facto member.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: PanAmPaul
Posted 2013-02-14 16:05:23 and read 4510 times.

I don't see US dropping out of *A until the merger has closed.

This is primarily because there is no guarantee the merger will close.

Yes, it's likely, but nothing is 100%.

So my take on this would be that the timing will be coterminous with AA's emergence out of BK and the transaction actually closing.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: n126dl
Posted 2013-02-14 17:37:47 and read 3591 times.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 29):
US Airways' membership in Star will end at the earliest of two dates: the one set forth as the end of the current membership contract, or the one US Airways and Star agree upon as the final membership date. It has nothing to do with the legal status of the corporation.

Well damn, I was way off.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: captainstefan
Posted 2013-02-14 17:52:49 and read 3466 times.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 28):
so they're using the AA name (and, presumably, ultimately their operating certificate).

I think it'd be cool for them to carry on the Cactus callsign (much like Expressjet adopting Acey and US Airways adopting Cactus in the first place). Confuse the hell out of foreign controllers for a few days.   

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2013-02-14 17:53:30 and read 3481 times.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 23):
Yes, but it would likely never get past the anti-trust regulators.

That's the key issue that will drive the combined AA/US into OneWorld. With UA as a Star member and DL as a Skyteam member, the only way not to have opposition to the merger, is OneWorld.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-02-15 04:51:37 and read 2948 times.

Forgive me if I am being stupid but hasn't it been signalled by Doug Parker from day 1 of the hysteria about whether this merger would ever happen that the merged entity would be in Oneworld and that the 'newmaericanarriving' website has in its banner headline the oneworld logo and both the existing US and AA websites clearly say the merger entity will be in Oneworld. So the answer to the question posed in the Thread title is already a non question and has been for some time - as long as the regulators don't oppose it.

The real question is how long will it take US to be a fully effective member of Oneworld and there are some observations about that in this thread - but I guess as much as anything it will depend on getting the computer systems to be compatible.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-02-15 14:26:59 and read 2528 times.

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 38):
I think it'd be cool for them to carry on the Cactus callsign (much like Expressjet adopting Acey and US Airways adopting Cactus in the first place). Confuse the hell out of foreign controllers for a few days.

Even better: use the AAL code with callsign "Cactus".

Actually, that's exactly why the controllers were so confused back in 2008. When the operating certificates merged, US kept the USA code with callsign "Cactus". I remember hearing a rather heated argument between a pilot and a controller (who never got the memo) over what to call the flight.

After about a week, they reverted to AWE/Cactus.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 40):

The real question is how long will it take US to be a fully effective member of Oneworld and there are some observations about that in this thread - but I guess as much as anything it will depend on getting the computer systems to be compatible.

I suspect it'll be much like the HP/US merger. Slap the codeshares on and effectively list US as a subsidiary of AA. Remember, HP never actually joined *A as a standalone.

I suspect this will happen somewhere between when US officially leaves *A and the official closing of the merger. Of course, this assumes they can get SHARES to cooperate.

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: TSS
Posted 2013-02-15 18:01:26 and read 2201 times.

Quoting american 767 (Reply 5):
If US had started the process of leaving Star last year, they'd be joining One World already this summer. That is what they should have done a year ago.

Yep. When rumors started swirling about a possible AA/US merger a year ago, I said then (and numerous times thereafter) that I'd only start taking the rumors seriously when US started making moves to leave Star for OneWorld. I thought that switching alliances would be the first logical step towards a merger and would allow some code shares between AA and US to be set up to ease the integration if a merger did occur and to grant shared access between carriers in case the merger never happened. Boy, was I wrong!   

Topic: RE: Will US Drop *A?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-16 00:00:23 and read 1850 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 34):
In the meantime Dividend Miles can partner up with BA/LA/CX/QF etc independently of alliance membership.

Why would the Dividend Miles program partner up with other oneworld alliance carriers in the short term when the Dividend Miles program will be replaced with the AAdvantage program?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 39):


Quoting LOWS (Reply 23):
Yes, but it would likely never get past the anti-trust regulators.

That's the key issue that will drive the combined AA/US into OneWorld.

Indeed, it is a very similar situation with LATAM, whereby TAM will have to exit the Star Alliance. I guess this is why the "new AA" has already stated that they will remain in the oneworld alliance. One thing is for sure, oneworld will be much stronger in the Americas with both US and JJ exiting the Star Alliance.


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