Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5690535/

Topic: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2013-02-14 09:56:47 and read 35949 times.

After reading almost a thousand posts in the threads related with AA and their new livery, I thought that we will never could reach a conclusive evidence of who was the mind behind the new tail and fuselage of the AA's planes. Some names were given with more or less "credit", but nothing conclusive.
Well, the truth is, if some of you wants to send a message ( good or bad ) to the original author of the new livery the AA planes will be wearing, you better look for a medium, because he/she is probably dead long time ago.
How can I say this ?

Look at this image ( Ok, not a "picture", but the book where I found it is a serious publication about Aviation, and it was printed in 2004 ), and tell me that this is not *almost* exactly the same paint job that every AA plane will have :



From "The Aviation Encyiclopedia", page 325

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: SPREE34
Posted 2013-02-14 10:37:41 and read 35396 times.

That looks a lot better than the new AA tail.

I say keep the US paint job, but add the AA titles.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Devilfish
Posted 2013-02-14 10:38:33 and read 35373 times.

Great find! Almost certainly based at Fort Stotsenburg...later Clark Field.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Arcellana




Saludos!

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: A388
Posted 2013-02-14 10:42:53 and read 35271 times.

I don't see how this is "busted" evidence. I'm sure the new livery adopted by AA now has much more to it than just an aircraft's tail painting from the past...

A388

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-02-14 11:02:35 and read 34943 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
I don't see how this is "busted" evidence. I'm sure the new livery adopted by AA now has much more to it than just an aircraft's tail painting from the past...

This is true........why not say that the original designer of the U.S. flag is the designer of AA's livery and that goes back, way beyond 1937. I'm thinking this design was pretty standard on U.S. military a/c in the 30s.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: BlatantEcho
Posted 2013-02-14 11:12:37 and read 34743 times.

I thought you were going to find an 8th grade drawing competition from 2005 with the new AA tail with an F- grade.

THAT would be *busted*
And no one would be surprised.... it's THAT bad.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Gonzalo
Posted 2013-02-14 11:30:19 and read 34421 times.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 2):
Great find! Almost certainly based at Fort Stotsenburg...later Clark Field.

Yep...According to the book the Martin B-10 of the image was part of the 28th Squadron based in Luzon ( Philippines ) between 1937 and 1941.

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
I don't see how this is "busted" evidence.

Oh, come on, that was just a little dose of innocent humor. The thing is, certainly the "new livery" ( to say the least ) is not very special. Clearly is not a "big innovation", since the design was probably used hundreds of times in military planes.

Rgds.
G.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: joacocifuentes
Posted 2013-02-14 11:42:56 and read 34126 times.

Actually an american flag in an american aircraft makes sense. It would be weird if there were any airplane wearing an US flag.
It just make sense to me.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: lvhgel
Posted 2013-02-14 11:58:50 and read 33887 times.

May be they were thinking on the merger with US Air while choosing this color scheme... Just a thought.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: tsnamm
Posted 2013-02-14 12:08:58 and read 33725 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
I thought you were going to find an 8th grade drawing competition from 2005 with the new AA tail with an F- grade.

OUCH! That's harsh! LOL

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: jet-lagged
Posted 2013-02-14 12:11:06 and read 33679 times.

My view is that the stripes are some adaptation of the the USAirways flag on the tail. Something of a compromise. No evidence for this though. I remember reading some years back how the (then) new JAL red and black 'sword' design livery still incorporated the crane to keep the traditionalist happy.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: CamiloA380
Posted 2013-02-14 12:49:54 and read 33266 times.

Busted? Just because you saw something similar on a random book? lol...just...lol

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
I thought you were going to find an 8th grade drawing competition from 2005 with the new AA tail with an F- grade.

Hahaha!

I personally like it.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-02-14 12:57:22 and read 32992 times.

I guess you're trying to be funny here?

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: winstonlegthigh
Posted 2013-02-14 13:12:36 and read 32158 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):

I thought you were going to find an 8th grade drawing competition from 2005 with the new AA tail with an F- grade.

Well done. +1

Although it has grown on me fast, this probably sums up my initial reaction during the first 10-15 seconds after I saw it.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2013-02-14 13:27:19 and read 31474 times.

Hmmm was actually expecting something interesting... oh well...

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: SouthernDC9
Posted 2013-02-14 13:41:36 and read 30822 times.

The fact that the new AA livery looks like a seemingly endless number of other existing designs, everything from Aeroflot and Cubana to U.S. military aircraft to Colgan Air, for pete's sake, just shows how misguided it is. With all the flag stylization it's simultaneously overwrought and dull. (As you might suspect it's not growing on me at all, at least not the tail).

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: comairguycvg
Posted 2013-02-14 13:54:22 and read 30216 times.

Doesn't look anything like the new AA tail.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: 4engines4lnghll
Posted 2013-02-14 14:04:49 and read 29803 times.

I think the AA livery is great! Think about it almost every airline in the US has a boring dark blue tail or some blue... Just like the previous livery you can spot an AA plane from a far distance. When you see the red stripes on the tail you know its AA. I was expecting like the others some amateur mock up or something.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2013-02-14 14:27:24 and read 28930 times.

The new logo, according to the website, is a combination of the AA Eagle and the US star. That was announced before the merger, so I do think that this new livery had a merger with US in mind.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: SCAT15F
Posted 2013-02-14 14:47:34 and read 28216 times.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
I thought you were going to find an 8th grade drawing competition from 2005 with the new AA tail with an F- grade.

THAT would be *busted*
And no one would be surprised.... it's THAT bad.

Truer words were never spoken.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: 4engines4lnghll
Posted 2013-02-14 15:53:58 and read 26198 times.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 18):


On the AA website it shows how the US grey flag stripes contributed to the new AA logo. I think the livery and logo does have a bit of US in it and im sure it was all planned to have that US flag incorporated with the AA colors, specifically for the merger. (obviously)

[Edited 2013-02-14 15:56:44]

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: VC10er
Posted 2013-02-14 16:17:26 and read 25471 times.

I know the person and people who did it. They used to work at LANDOR many years ago and he and they did NOT copy that. Like the livery or not...the idea is simply a stylized American flag. No different than South African or BA. Period. Story over.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-02-14 16:19:57 and read 25406 times.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 18):
The new logo, according to the website, is a combination of the AA Eagle and the US star. That was announced before the merger, so I do think that this new livery had a merger with US in mind.

That is what they say, but every time I see the new logo, I am reminded that it looks like the old Greyhound logo ... with the dog running past the flag!

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: ozark1
Posted 2013-02-14 17:10:30 and read 23970 times.

Quoting 4engines4lnghll (Reply 17):
Just like the previous livery you can spot an AA plane from a far distance. When you see the red stripes on the tail you know its AA. I was expecting like the others some amateur mock up or something.

They have told us they are going to illuminate all the fleet's tails. Maybe I will like it after I see it lit up at night. Would probably be cool.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: AApilot2b
Posted 2013-02-14 17:11:26 and read 24118 times.

I'm biased, but I like the new scheme. I will miss the polished aluminum, but we knew that would have to go some day...

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: lostsound
Posted 2013-02-14 17:23:39 and read 23903 times.

I love the new scheme, which in my eyes is actually a merger livery. It has elements from both airlines.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2013-02-14 17:46:58 and read 23263 times.

I like the new livery, but my worry is, will it still look good once they replace the silver paint with white paint? Every airline out there (that I can think of) with a silver paint has done it, eventually. . .

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2013-02-14 18:27:25 and read 22285 times.

Quoting AApilot2b (Reply 25):

I'm biased, but I like the new scheme. I will miss the polished aluminum, but we knew that would have to go some day...

I don't but it makes sense with the merger in mind.

I think the old AA livery was a classic, not fancy and the polished aluminum is still cool.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: gigneil
Posted 2013-02-14 18:30:17 and read 22150 times.

I mean clearly, and duh, they planned the new livery with the merger in mind.

NS

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Tristan7977
Posted 2013-02-14 21:53:42 and read 17804 times.

I honestly like the new livery!! I don't see why people don't like it. It's apparent that they aren't going to change the new AA livery. It wouldn't make sense to change it, since AA made a new logo. In my opinion, some bits of the new AA livery looks similar to US Airways.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: thebatman
Posted 2013-02-14 22:02:58 and read 17618 times.

Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 13):
Although it has grown on me fast, this probably sums up my initial reaction during the first 10-15 seconds after I saw it.

My initial reaction: why did they put a piano on the tail? But that's just me...

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: DrColenzo
Posted 2013-02-15 00:57:34 and read 14631 times.

Hmm.

When I was at school I was told that the Flag of the United States of America was adopted by the Second Continental Congress on June 14, 1777..., could AA have been using a time machine to spy upon Francis Hopkinson as he designed the first flag?

Now, if someone could provide evidence of that then AA will be busted!

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Archer
Posted 2013-02-15 04:28:52 and read 11532 times.

I agree with Spree34.
My first thought when I saw it was "garrish" if that's the way to spell it.
Too freaky to me.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: thrufru
Posted 2013-02-15 05:10:05 and read 10689 times.

I can say that I was rather underwhelmed when the new livery was rolled out. However, I was taxiing last Sunday in MIA when the 738 landed on 8R. It looks much, much better in person.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: brilondon
Posted 2013-02-15 05:12:15 and read 10659 times.

Ok guys, can we stop every thread about AA from turning into a thread bashing the new livery. I love it. It seems that I am in the minority here but it is here and your opinions should be kept to the threads for that opinion.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: LanPeru
Posted 2013-02-15 07:38:39 and read 7916 times.

How IRONIC how AA is now doing what LAN did years ago as well, based on a design that I ended up sharing with a member that has a strong connection with LAN back in 2000-2001. I wish I would have saved a digital copy of the drawing.

When I saw it, my mouth dropped. It was based on a different scheme, where red was dominant - with one shade lighter than the other, and the "wave" on the tail stretching from the back half of the fuselage to about the middle and instead of the star (an obvious symbol of Chile) it was a coat of arms on the tail...

Life's funny. I need a medium to help me find that guy too..  

Regardless (just like LAN's) I like the new AA scheme, but will miss the polished silver look - just like I miss the LAN CHILE scheme.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: ckfred
Posted 2013-02-15 07:47:13 and read 7703 times.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
I say keep the US paint job, but add the AA titles.

So, you want to go down the CO-UA path, where the acquiring carrier keeps its livery, even though the acquired carrier has the better known brand?

Personally, I haven't cared for a US livery since the last Allegheny livery that was rebranded to US Air. Although I'm not a big fan of the new livery (I do like the logo, and the livery is growing on me), it's better than the US livery.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Aerowrench
Posted 2013-02-15 07:54:53 and read 7560 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
After reading almost a thousand posts in the threads related with AA and their new livery, I thought that we will never could reach a conclusive evidence of who was the mind behind the new tail and fuselage of the AA's planes. Some names were given with more or less "credit", but nothing conclusive.
Well, the truth is, if some of you wants to send a message ( good or bad ) to the original author of the new livery the AA planes will be wearing, you better look for a medium, because he/she is probably dead long time ago.
How can I say this ?

Look at this image ( Ok, not a "picture", but the book where I found it is a serious publication about Aviation, and it was printed in 2004 ), and tell me that this is not *almost* exactly the same paint job that every AA plane will have :



From "The Aviation Encyiclopedia", page 325



Circling the world, that's the way to live !! DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763

That was a great way to start the day! Thanks for posting this   

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2013-02-15 07:56:01 and read 7537 times.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
I say keep the US paint job, but add the AA titles.

I agree. With that paint job and related marketing, the takeover of AA/US by a competitor is a matter of months, not years.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: superjeff
Posted 2013-02-15 08:00:01 and read 7412 times.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
That looks a lot better than the new AA tail.

I say keep the US paint job, but add the AA titles.

Ditto!

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: SouthernDC9
Posted 2013-02-15 08:11:12 and read 7192 times.

Quoting thrufru (Reply 33):
I can say that I was rather underwhelmed when the new livery was rolled out. However, I was taxiing last Sunday in MIA when the 738 landed on 8R. It looks much, much better in person.

I'm hoping the 738 makes it to DCA soon and that I see it, I'm curious if an in-person encounter would change my opinion. My main gripe is the tail - with the newly-designed body, I wish they had gone with a mix of solid red, white and blue tails, would have looked awesome all gathered together at DFW. (I know the red tail would have been a bit of a NW thing but it seems that looking like other carriers' designs wasn't a major concern here.)

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
Ok guys, can we stop every thread about AA from turning into a thread bashing the new livery.

In fairness this really began as a bit of livery-bashing, that was rather the point I thought.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: Bn747dfwhnl
Posted 2013-02-15 08:11:57 and read 7196 times.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
the idea is simply a stylized American flag. No different than South African or BA

The issue isn't that they used the flag. It's the boring, unimaginative, as you say so aptly, simple way in which it was done. BA's flag rendition suggests motion and is very stylish whereas American's flag rendition is one-dimensional and looks like something a fourth-grader did. BA's flag reference is also just that: a suggestive reference, not a cardboard-cut-out-and-paste job like American's. Finally, anyone looking at BA's or South African's tails think only of those carriers. You look at American's new tail and think Cubana; you look at their logo and see Greyhound. The purpose of the rebrand is to distinguish the company for itself (a merger notwithstanding), and the firm responsible for the rebrand didn't succeed with that. The only part of American's rebrand that is truly its own is the big lettering of the name, and even that isn't a new concept. But, as we say, water under the bridge now.

[Edited 2013-02-15 08:14:05]

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-02-15 09:11:49 and read 6017 times.

That's the thing.. I couldn't put my finger on it, now it makes sense.

The new AA tail looks exactly like it's stuck in the 1930s (worst and least imaginative era ever)!
..and the fuselage - a dead-on 21st century look, a very odd combo indeed.

Just doesn't work.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-02-15 09:29:48 and read 5664 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
Ok guys, can we stop every thread about AA from turning into a thread bashing the new livery. I love it. It seems that I am in the minority here but it is here and your opinions should be kept to the threads for that opinion.

I really like the new livery and corporate image as well. It is fresh, modern and new. I have a feeling that when seen in person, it will look even better.

Unfortunately, we'll never see it in a B767-200 as with the larger tail to fuselage ratio, it would look great!

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: robsaw
Posted 2013-02-15 09:35:01 and read 5528 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
The new AA tail looks exactly like it's stuck in the 1930s (worst and least imaginative era ever)!
..and the fuselage - a dead-on 21st century look, a very odd combo indeed.

Just doesn't work.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 43):
I really like the new livery and corporate image as well. It is fresh, modern and new. I have a feeling that when seen in person, it will look even better.

And there you have it.

If 3 years from now anyone points to the livery as a factual significant factor in the success or failure of the AA-US merger, then we will have something to debate. Otherwise, this is nothing but an argument about a fashion show.

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: BN747
Posted 2013-02-15 10:45:57 and read 4875 times.

Quoting robsaw (Reply 44):

If 3 years from now anyone points to the livery as a factual significant factor in the success or failure of the AA-US merger, then we will have something to debate. Otherwise, this is nothing but an argument about a fashion show.

Not really,

...photos is what made Airliners.net what it is. It's the sole anchor point of this website.
People are here because a near innate attraction to jetliners, commercial jetliners to be specific.. we here look around at the on field activity of airports everywhere we go.

American's success or failure is already predestined by the jokers running it, they're either thinking

1) we've gotta turn this thing around

or

2) No matter happens..my 'financial package had better be secure'...

This criticism good or bad is only input we get and it is indeed fair game...esp. here on A.net.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 43):
I have a feeling that when seen in person, it will look even better.

Maybe for you it will be... for me, I've been upclose and personal (video taped it) and it is the bastard child of bad idea and poor effort. I usually enjoy seeing a row of tails at Terminals... this is gonna look like a giant circus tent.

BN747

Topic: RE: Busted!: The Truth Behind The New AA Livery
Username: longhauler
Posted 2013-02-16 06:53:42 and read 3936 times.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 45):
Maybe for you it will be... for me, I've been upclose and personal (video taped it) and it is the bastard child of bad idea and poor effort.

I find that surprising, but you have seen it, I have not. I remember seeing the last NW paint scheme in pictures and drawings and thought it was dull and uninspired .... seeing it in person, it became one of my favourite paint schemes. Same thing with the new AC scheme, although it has been altered slightly since its introduction.

Quoting robsaw (Reply 44):
If 3 years from now anyone points to the livery as a factual significant factor in the success or failure of the AA-US merger, then we will have something to debate. Otherwise, this is nothing but an argument about a fashion show.

Nothing discussed, (or battled) on this website has any bearing on the outcome of the industry. Let's face it, if anyone on here had any control of direction of an airline, they would be bound by corporate gag-orders, and .... likely too busy to jump on here and discuss paint colours, seat fabrics and boarding pass paper thickness!

But, one thing that always strikes me on here, is not just the interest in the minutiae of the industry, but the huge knowledge base of the average a-netter.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/