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Topic: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: FL787
Posted 2013-02-13 21:42:58 and read 12220 times.

On the heels of adding SJC, SEA, and BNA to their LAX portfolio, DL is now also adding ANC, BOS, and GEG. ANC will be twice weekly (FRI/SUN) during the summer using a 757 starting June 21st. BOS will be a daily 757 starting June 10th with a redeye eastbound and a morning flight the other direction. GEG will also start June 10th using a CR9.

LAX-ANC
2030-0100 757 57
ANC-LAX
2350-0605 757 57

LAX-BOS
2230-0710 757 D
BOS-LAX
0845-1200 757 D

LAX-GEG
1950-2225 CR9 D
GEG-LAX
0645-0920 CR9 D

These flights are viewable in Delta's desktop timetable.


BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO. I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

Personally I think LAX is perhaps the most interesting market to watch and it will be interesting to see how the future plays out with AA, UA, DL, WN, and VX all fighting for a share of the pie. It would be great for LAX if all 5 can keep expanding their ops and I think that is what will happen as much as gate space allows. Speaking of which, I wonder how much wiggle room DL has left at this point. T5 will be busy.

[Edited 2013-02-13 21:48:52]

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2013-02-13 21:51:43 and read 12162 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

AS and DL both use to serve GEG-LAX. Currently no one serves it, so AS can't get too upset.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: UALFAson
Posted 2013-02-13 22:01:53 and read 12062 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
Personally I think LAX is perhaps the most interesting market to watch and it will be interesting to see how the future plays out with AA, UA, DL, WN, and VX all fighting for a share of the pie.

I wouldn't be surprised to see UA blink first. They have steadily downgauged from mainline to express on several routes and cut frequency on others. Their market share has also been declining, I believe, although it's a chicken-and-egg as to which of those situations caused the other. I think once the SFO renovations are completed and UA will be at full capacity up there, LAX, while they certainly won't abandon the 2nd largest city in the US, will become less of a focus for them to defend.

Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2013-02-13 22:02:18 and read 12068 times.

IIRC, DL flew LAX-ANC a couple of years back.

This must be the 100th time they have resumed BOSLAX. Wonder if it will work this time.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-02-13 22:08:37 and read 11984 times.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2):
Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?

Yeah, they've done it before. Didn't they also operate it with their short lived Song experiment?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-13 22:11:51 and read 11974 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):

Question, just random, Is SEA-LAX still loaded as 3x CR9? My timetable is being stupid  

edit: Never mind. LAX-SEA goes 1x 757, 1x 738 1x CR9

does look like the 757 goes away in AUG.

Other changes, LAS gets a 320 (replaces 1 319) and (not really surprising) LAX-HND will go to a 767 with flat beds.

Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

[Edited 2013-02-13 22:45:14]

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2013-02-13 22:12:40 and read 11962 times.

DL right now is the odd man out on BOS-LAX. They well need to increase frequency to more then once daily to compete with AA, UA, B6, and VX who all offer more then one flight per day on the route. This is the one of the few remaining routes they will need to start in order to show that they are serous about their intentions with the LA market, they will not succeed with one daily flight, they need more. I hope I'm proven wrong on my opinion on this but only time will tell. I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-02-13 22:23:11 and read 11898 times.

Finally Delta connects one of the most important domestic points to their LAX "hub". While I am glad they added BOS, I think they need another frequency on the route, leaving early morning from LAX and returning in the evening.


As I wrote in the DL SJC thread, Delta seems committed to Los Angeles, which they demonstrate with the launch of Boston. Now we are only missing a few more important destinations (mentioned above in reply 6) before Delta has full coverage out of LAX. Furthermore, with their 49% stake in VS I would not be surprised to see one of the LHR flights transferred to Delta metal.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-13 22:23:25 and read 11898 times.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6):
I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.

agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6):
hey well need to increase frequency to more then once daily to compete with AA, UA, B6, and VX who all offer more then one flight per day on the route.

Agreed. At least a morning 737 flight. Kinda surprised they are going with the 57 for the start.

Oh course I also think MIA needs at least another flight too.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2):
Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?

yes. 400 million times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-GEG
1950-2225 CR9 D
GEG-LAX
0645-0920 CR9 D

This one.....uh. that seems kinda out of left field to me.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-ANC
2030-0100 757 57
ANC-LAX
2350-0605 757 57

only two days a week? Well I don't think AS will even notice.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
Speaking of which, I wonder how much wiggle room DL has left at this point. T5 will be busy.

Right now they are at ~8 flights per day per gate. So pretty darn busy.

(note, I really have no idea what gates in T6 they can/can't use. I do know at one point a rumor was floating around that they were trying to work out a deal with United for use of the old DL connector gates. No idea how true that is....just the rumor mill.) Also they have been using some of the parking spots at the hangar for RJ flights

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: klwright69
Posted 2013-02-13 23:49:42 and read 11614 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6): I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.
agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

Yes, agreed. And they should add all these routes sooner rather than later if they are so serious about this LAX buildup. Let's see how the incumbent carriers respond. Let the games begin.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-14 00:04:43 and read 11562 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
This must be the 100th time they have resumed BOSLAX. Wonder if it will work this time

Yeah, and I think maybe B6 was not flying out of LAX the last time DL flew LA-BOS.

Good luck to DL on all of these routes... they may need it!

bb

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-14 00:11:13 and read 11542 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):

Yeah, and I think maybe B6 was not flying out of LAX the last time DL flew LA-BOS.

Not sure, but I know VX wasn't. This is a route that Delta has to be more than willing to lose money on. (and again, IMHO lose money on at least 2 but more than likely 3 flights a day)

Also think this is a route that it is very important to get the best hard product on. ie 75X and 73H aircraft.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: mah4546
Posted 2013-02-14 00:29:41 and read 11491 times.

Fourth try on BOSLAX, I think. Won't be long befortribe fifth try at this rate.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 11):
Also think this is a route that it is very important to get the best hard product on. ie 75X and 73H aircraft.
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

[Edited 2013-02-14 00:30:48]

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-14 00:38:14 and read 11451 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

I don't disagree...still think Delta needs to put its best foot forward.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-14 00:41:01 and read 11441 times.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 1):
AS and DL both use to serve GEG-LAX. Currently no one serves it, so AS can't get too upset

I think AS is not going to be upset, it seems whatever new arrangement they made a couple months back, must have included flying each others key routes to dominate and hopefully rid themselves of any possible competition. AS has a nice thing going on the west coast.

Since AS/DL have made their new stronger alliance, AS has begun SEA-SLC, DL LAX-SEA now LAX-ANC & LAX-GEG. right into the heart of AS country. Normally a move by a carrier DL's size into such protected AS markets, would have elicited a strong reaction from AS, look at B6 going SEA-ANC 1 x daily. and AS trumped with triple miles.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
(oh and PDX)

This would be great, and a welcome back to DL, I do hope we see a couple of CR9's ourselves here, I'm needing them to start by the last week in September. Last time I took DL PDX-LAX-PDX it was being flown on 733's, before that 72S's.  

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: panamair
Posted 2013-02-14 00:41:19 and read 11441 times.

DL will also start a Saturday-only LAX-BZN CR9 flight this summer...

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-14 00:51:57 and read 11413 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I do hope we see a couple of CR9's ourselves

3-4 CR9/CR7 sounds about right. Link up to Hawaii,SYD, HND and NRT(even though it has a PDX flight) plus the short haul market, T-cons and Mexico.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
AS has begun SEA-SLC, DL LAX-SEA now LAX-ANC & LAX-GEG

And of course, AS doesn't fly GEG-LAX so I have no idea why they would get super upset. Gives them a chance to codeshare on an ex-route.

Also AS has started SEA-ATL/MSP flights as part of the "alliance". right now its 3 to 1. (sorry, not counting a 2 weekly flight to ANC and only runs for a few weeks.)

Quoting panamair (Reply 15):

I knew i was forgetting one.

Anyways, starts JUN 22 ends AUG 24
LAX-BZN
900-1215 CR9 6
BZN-LAX
1250-1405 CR9 6

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-14 01:07:33 and read 11374 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

And of course, AS doesn't fly GEG-LAX so I have no idea why they would get super upset. Gives them a chance to codeshare on an ex-route.

Yes that is true, AS most likely dominates the market share anyway. IIRC, AS is not putting it's code on the LAX-SEA flights flown by the DL CR9's, I am unsure if they will be doing so on LAX-ANC or LAX-GEG. Since G4 announced GEG-HNL I had hoped they may think of taking on this route non-stop, but I guess I was wrong.

How much room does DL have to grow there at LAX? I hope we see more DL dots on the west coast being connected to LAX. I think these flights will help DL keep more inventory control for their top tier frequent flier base.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-14 01:26:15 and read 11328 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
IIRC, AS is not putting it's code on the LAX-SEA flights flown by the DL CR9's,

I didn't think they would. With out looking I think 2 of the three flights are with-in minutes of AS's flights.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
am unsure if they will be doing so on LAX-ANC

meh... its not like its a daily flight. 2 days a week, for a few weeks. Not sure I would even pay an employee the time to waste the key strokes putting it into the system.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
or LAX-GEG.

I think they codeshare on this.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
How much room does DL have to grow there at LAX?

Delta's gate per day usage is pretty high. As i said, they have been parking RJs at the hangar to free up space. (and again, rumor was they were trying to work a deal to get more T6 gates)

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
I hope we see more DL dots on the west coast being connected to LAX.

PDX/DEN would be great. I would also like to see some markets like MRY/SBA/FAT/TUS/RNO/ABQ/COS.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: commavia
Posted 2013-02-14 05:09:58 and read 11007 times.

Interesting.

While the schedule is suboptimal, BOS is a market DL needed to be in to be competitive at LAX.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2013-02-14 07:32:07 and read 10463 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Question, just random, Is SEA-LAX still loaded as 3x CR9? My timetable is being stupid

edit: Never mind. LAX-SEA goes 1x 757, 1x 738 1x CR9

Really? When did that happen? I just looked on Delta.com and they still list all three LAX-SEA flights as CR9's by Skywest.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: klkla
Posted 2013-02-14 08:04:50 and read 10316 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

When does this start?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-14 08:13:33 and read 10268 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):
Really? When did that happen? I just looked on Delta.com and they still list all three LAX-SEA flights as CR9's by Skywest.

Check Saturday, if not sooner. What is going on with DL/AS? It's been back and forth for a couple weeks now, starting with LAXSEA on DL, an increase on AS, LAXSJC and ATLANC on DL, now LAXANC/GEG and an upgauge on LAXSEA. Doesn't seem very partner-ly

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: PHXFlyer16
Posted 2013-02-14 08:30:50 and read 10152 times.

Interesting to see DL really fortifying LAX right before AA/US merger was announced.

Does anyone have a breakdown of number of flights per day and number of gates for AS, SW, DL, VX, UA and AA?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: rafflesking
Posted 2013-02-14 09:41:55 and read 9587 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-BOS
2230-0710 757 D
BOS-LAX
0845-1200 757 D

Note the OP specifies these additions are only on Fridays and Sundays. So this looks to be an asset utilization play or an observed connection trend rather than an attempt to compete with the 4 carriers currently running the route with multiple dailies.

This frequent BOS-DTW-LAX flier appreciates the summertime addition!

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2013-02-14 10:03:51 and read 9598 times.

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 24):

Note the OP specifies these additions are only on Fridays and Sundays. So this looks to be an asset utilization play or an observed connection trend rather than an attempt to compete with the 4 carriers currently running the route with multiple dailies.

No the OP mentions that ANC is Fr/Su only (hence the 57 comment after the 757 equipment). BOS/GEG both have D instead of 57, meaning it will be daily.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: redzeppelin
Posted 2013-02-14 10:08:46 and read 9531 times.

Quoting panamair (Reply 15):
DL will also start a Saturday-only LAX-BZN CR9 flight this summer...

Great news!
As a DL FF living in Bozeman, I can say that the DL flights here are always packed--especially to SLC. I've wondered if we might soon get a mainline flight on that route, but I'm just as happy to see a new destination. DL has 3 gates at BZN now, and it's nice to see increased utilization.

UA also offers seasonal BZN-LAX service, but with higher frequency.

BZN's summer schedule is shaping up nicely. This is based on the week of July 7-13:
DL:
LAX: 1x weekly CR9 (saturday only)
SLC: 6x daily (4xCR2, 1xCR7, 1xCR9)
MSP: 3x daily (all A320)
ATL: 3x weekly (2x757, 1x738) Wed/Sat/Sun

UA:
EWR: 2x weekly (319/320, Sat/Sun)
DEN: 5x daily Sun-Fri, 4x on Saturday, all CR2s.
SFO: 1x daily CR2
LAX: 1x daily CR2
ORD: 3x on Sunday, 2x daily Mon-Sat, all CR7s

AS:
SEA: 2x daily Q400
PDX: 1x daily Q400

F9:
DEN: 1x daily A319 (F9's schedule currently runs through July 10)

G4:
LAS: 2x weekly
AZA: 2x weekly
OAK: I haven't heard about this being dropped, but it doesn't seem bookable right now.

The BZN management has been courting AA service to DFW for a while. Maybe the merger with US can help that happen if the larger airline feels like they need BZN to fill out their network. (Sorry about the long off-topic post--I just get excited when BZN gets a new route.)

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-14 10:10:25 and read 9668 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 25):
ANC is Fr/Su only (hence the 57 comment after the 757 equipment).

...which is odd because 5/7 are not utilization days, although it is pretty much a utilization schedule. Maybe 57 to ANC is better than 57 redeye to the East Coast, at least in summer.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-14 10:36:27 and read 9379 times.

I wonder if DL's moves are intended to put pressure on AS to make a choice....DL or AA?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-14 10:38:59 and read 9390 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO. I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

Clearly AS choosing AA for a tighter deal in LAX has either irritated DL or caused them to quickly think about building up to replace them.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Stapleton
Posted 2013-02-14 10:43:41 and read 9331 times.

GEG received a Small Community Air Service grant for service to LAX. Perhaps Delta was the only responder.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-14 10:45:25 and read 9324 times.

Regarding GEG, there has been SCASD money on the table since 2011 for resumption of a Southern California link.

However I am not sure DL will qualify using the CR9 as award was specific to "mainline aircraft >99 seats".

Spokane in summer months should not be too difficult to fill as LA/San Diego region generated 325,000 annual O&D trips per the SCASD application, but the market is very seasonal, so come winter months it could be quite challenging.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: n515cr
Posted 2013-02-14 11:35:09 and read 8881 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
Yeah, they've done it before. Didn't they also operate it with their short lived Song experiment?

I do know that when they were flying to BOS in late 2007-early 2008, it was on 738s.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-14 11:39:51 and read 8855 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 28):
I wonder if DL's moves are intended to put pressure on AS to make a choice....DL or AA?

I don't think AS has to worry about the pressure. Next time I fly SEA-LAX/SLC/MSP/ATL/HNL, I'll have a choice between DL and AS. Guess which one I'll choose. AS can hold their own again DL on competing routes.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2013-02-14 12:44:08 and read 8383 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
Fourth try on BOSLAX, I think. Won't be long befortribe fifth try at this rate.

I was thinking the same, and the coveted business community will likely roll its eyes in a 'we've-seen-this-movie-before' way.

But I don't know whether DL's 757 are going to be more 'comfortable' than AA's 738s or UAs 319s...they will certainly be bigger. The promotional play might be 'more room for you' or something like that.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-14 13:47:06 and read 7979 times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO.
Quoting Stapleton (Reply 30):
GEG received a Small Community Air Service grant for service to LAX. Perhaps Delta was the only responder.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
Regarding GEG, there has been SCASD money on the table since 2011 for resumption of a Southern California link.

However I am not sure DL will qualify using the CR9 as award was specific to "mainline aircraft >99 seats".

Spokane in summer months should not be too difficult to fill as LA/San Diego region generated 325,000 annual O&D trips per the SCASD application, but the market is very seasonal, so come winter months it could be quite challenging.

With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?


 

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-14 13:51:40 and read 7973 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):

agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

DL had LAX-PHL last year with a 1x 738. It got dropped. Apparently didn't do so well.

I could see LAX-EWR added back with a daily 738 when EWR-CDG resumes this June (hasn't operated since 1992.)

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: panam330
Posted 2013-02-14 13:58:30 and read 7908 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
DL had LAX-PHL last year with a 1x 738. It got dropped. Apparently didn't do so well.

Philly is a difficult nut to crack on trunk routes. Just ask WN. It's a rare case of US winning, nearly across the board. Jury's still out on VX to the left coast, and B6 hasn't started BOS just yet - but we shall see.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-14 14:19:22 and read 7761 times.

How many more routes need to be added at LAX before we all agree that DL intends to make LAX a hub?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-14 14:24:09 and read 7724 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 35):
With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?

AS/QX has tried LAX-GEG on several occasions and then later discontinued it. They were flying it around 2005 with an AS MD-80; then tried again a few years later with a QX CR7.

AS/QX also had a short lived SJC-GEG with a Q400 that didn't last long.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-02-14 14:35:25 and read 7682 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

AA and Delta are the preferred airlines of one very large D Contractor with operations in Boston, LA, and Dallas.

Of course, the merger of AA/US may now mean that there will be less of an opportunity for Delta to grow that business and thus sustain LAX/Boston with that contract.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-14 14:51:01 and read 7559 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 35):
With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?

1) Very seasonal - 4 month summer period accounts for 60% of the traffic.
2) Its a leisure market. Not a SEA or PDX that generates good deal of business traffic
3) Long'ish stage length - its a 1000mile haul, not some short 1-hour hop.
4) Relative low fares

I have no doubt DL will be able to fill the planes especially in the summer, the question is more what happens during the remainder of the year, and also whats the magical yield they manage to sustain.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: laca773
Posted 2013-02-14 15:25:10 and read 7333 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

PVR has been an odd market for DL since they pulled out after running for many years after the WA merger. AM took the route over, then dropped it. I was thinking DL was waiting for AM to pick it back up, so they would operate it seasonally, and now we have them back to flying it daily. Are the 738s they are flying to PVR equipped with AVOD, or a standard model? It seemed like for a while they were choosing to operate Mexico flights with the A319/A320s on the leisure routes since they don't have larger premium cabins, no AVOD etc..

In regards to GDL, when was this route operated with a 757 on a regular basis? I thought this was a 738 before being switched to a A320? This is another market I feel DL was waiting to see if AM would add more service and have them fly it instead. Obviously this isn't going to happen.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 34):
But I don't know whether DL's 757 are going to be more 'comfortable' than AA's 738s or UAs 319s...they will certainly be bigger. The promotional play might be 'more room for you' or something like that.

I suspect DL will fly LAX-BOS with the AVOD equipped 757s and if there's a downgauge or a/c sub, a 73H. In this regard, they will offer a better product compared to UA & AA.
Will they offer similar catering on this transcon as they do to JFK?

[

Quoting panam330 (Reply 37):
Philly is a difficult nut to crack on trunk routes. Just ask WN. It's a rare case of US winning, nearly across the board. Jury's still out on VX to the left coast, and B6 hasn't started BOS just yet - but we shall see.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
LAX-HND will go to a 767 with flat beds.

LAX-HND going to a 76W makes sense. The A330/777 is too large for this market, especially with NH flying it as well.
I completely agree about PHL being a difficult market to figure out. UA kept their foot a bit wet in the market, but always seemed as if they were going to pull the plug, with the exception of the single rotation, and then, it got the axe. Is the market adqeuately covered by US operating 4-5 A321s daily?
Perhaps this is a market that was timed poorly by DL only operating as a redeye as many of these secondary markets are flown by them. Perhaps they needed to operate it early am eastbound and early evening westbound for business travelers.

I hope they can get BOS to work this time around. There's some obvious rationale for them to re-enter the market again.
I believe the first time they attempted to fly it is when they came out with their Biz Elite product and tried to introduce it on transcons with the 762. This didn't last long, then the 738s.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-14 15:30:57 and read 7287 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39):
AS/QX has tried LAX-GEG on several occasions and then later discontinued it. They were flying it around 2005 with an AS MD-80; then tried again a few years later with a QX CR7.

AS/QX also had a short lived SJC-GEG with a Q400 that didn't last long.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
I have no doubt DL will be able to fill the planes especially in the summer, the question is more what happens during the remainder of the year, and also whats the magical yield they manage to sustain.

Nail-on-the-head prize for these two! Sure, they might operate fairly full but at what rasm? AS has tried it and it didn't work...but then they have no patience for a route that loses money. DL might be willing to hang on a bit longer but I don't see it lasting past September, maybe January 2014.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2013-02-14 16:07:34 and read 7081 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Clearly AS choosing AA for a tighter deal in LAX has either irritated DL or caused them to quickly think about building up to replace them.

The agreement between AA and AS didn't change anything between DL and AS. I don't think DL is irritated with AS at all. I think DL and AS and AA are all doing what airlines do when they are just code-sharing and not revenue sharing and that is add routes on their own metal when appropriate. If no airline did this then code-shares wouldn't produce anything they would just keep the status quo.

I would actually say that because DL and AS are adding flights in each others markets that the codeshare deal is producing positive results. They are starting to see the benefit of working together and as such are adding flights.

A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

A little off topic, but the AA deal seems more like something AS wanted then AA wanting it. Seems that AS wants/needs more help in Texas, an area that DL can't offer as well as AA. I mean AA got some flights to HNL and from Portland, not exactly the biggest priority at AA.

As for the routes themselves, I think it is DL tiptoeing around the big three that they aren't ready to fight for (ORD, DFW, IAD). They have to come sometime and there isn't much else DL can add without getting into that territory.

EWR will be much later if at all, DL would rather serve JFK hourly than fight at EWR.

IAH just isn't as big a whole to be worth the inevitable fight with UA.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-14 16:40:27 and read 6884 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
EWR will be much later if at all, DL would rather serve JFK hourly than fight at EWR.

Look at AA. They fly both LAX-JFK and LAX-EWR.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-14 16:44:49 and read 6882 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

Exactly! Perfect examples are DL's new LAX-SEA flights. AS flights are packed on this route and they couldn't provide the seats that DL needed. Instead of waiting around for AS to add flights they've started their own. Same with AS service from SEA to MSP and ATL...with SEA being AS's main hub they can fly whereever they want...and if they're putting enough people on DL codeshares to those cities then they might as well fly there themselves.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-14 17:32:24 and read 6641 times.

Looking at DOT numbers the Skywest CR9 operating cost are $1,983/hr excluding fuel. For fuel they report they burn an average of 461/gal per block hr.

So a LAX-GEG oneway trip will cost about $8,400 for the 2.5hrs.

With 76 seats @ 80%LF they need to net $138 per person each way (excluding taxes) on the fare to breakeven to cover the direct operating cost. (This is not covering airport fees, handling, or other overhead).

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-02-14 17:40:56 and read 6556 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):

As for the routes themselves, I think it is DL tiptoeing around the big three that they aren't ready to fight for (ORD, DFW, IAD). They have to come sometime and there isn't much else DL can add without getting into that territory.

Maybe they are waiting to see if any beoynd-perimeter slots are divested at DCA with the merger before they do anything?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-14 17:41:18 and read 6605 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 46):
Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

Exactly! Perfect examples are DL's new LAX-SEA flights. AS flights are packed on this route and they couldn't provide the seats that DL needed. Instead of waiting around for AS to add flights they've started their own. Same with AS service from SEA to MSP and ATL...with SEA being AS's main hub they can fly whereever they want...and if they're putting enough people on DL codeshares to those cities then they might as well fly there themselves.

When airlines add service on a major codeshare partners route, it's often not an instance of cooperating - it's because they know they are losing potentially valuable revenue, and want it for themselves.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-02-14 18:09:31 and read 6429 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-GEG
1950-2225 CR9 D
GEG-LAX
0645-0920 CR9 D

This one.....uh. that seems kinda out of left field to me.

Not really. Delta is actually restarting and old old legacy Western route. Western flew it for several years with a 737-200 and I believe Delta ran it for a while after the merger.

ExpressJet flew this under Delta Connection during the short-lived marriage at LAX. Some of those routes were at-risk for ExpressJet, others were more traditional reimbursement agreements. Not sure what GEG route was.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39):
AS/QX has tried LAX-GEG on several occasions and then later discontinued it. They were flying it around 2005 with an AS MD-80; then tried again a few years later with a QX CR7.

Actually Alaska few it most recently with the 737, including the 739 much of the time. As another posted alluded to, route did great in late spring, summer and early fall. But GEG traffic goes really south in January and February. I want to say AS cut the route 2 years ago.

And, again, as another poster mentioned GEG airport board has been scurrying to get the LAX route back. The assumption was always Alaska since they dominate the frequent flier market, but AS has a real fleet hole below the 73G - the Q400 can't fly the route and the 5 CR7's subleased to SkyWest are solely for FAT, BUR and ONT.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-14 18:24:09 and read 6338 times.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
IIRC, DL flew LAX-ANC a couple of years back.

Going way back, in the early 1990s DL had 3 L-1011-500 nonstops a week LAX-ANC. Expect that flight continued somewhere in Asia. Photo below at ANC July 1992. In the October 1991 OAG the ANC-LAX flight was DL58, Wed/Fri/Sun only.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy Martin - AirTeamImages

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-14 18:47:53 and read 6213 times.

How long has LAX been on-and-off as an "official" DL hub? I remember it being on the hub maps in Sky Magazine not too long ago. It seems like they keep experimenting with them....how many asian flights do they have, as well? Just to NRT?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2013-02-14 21:03:17 and read 5616 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 21):

PVR-July 1(and sorry, its a 320, not 738)
GDL- July 1

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):
I just looked on Delta.com and they still list all three LAX-SEA flights as CR9's by Skywest.

Delta.com is always loaded on Saturday.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):

In regards to GDL, when was this route operated with a 757 on a regular basis? I thought this was a 738 before being switched to a A320? This is another market I feel DL was waiting to see if AM would add more service and have them fly it instead. Obviously this isn't going to happen.

Not when was....but when will. route starts back July 1. Daily 757.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 52):
how many asian flights do they have, as well? Just to NRT?

Daily 777 to NRT, Daily 332(soon to be 763) to HND.

Also GUA,GDL,PVR,CUN in the short haul market and SYD in the long haul

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-14 22:26:37 and read 5418 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 51):
Going way back, in the early 1990s DL had 3 L-1011-500 nonstops a week LAX-ANC. Expect that flight continued somewhere in Asia. Photo below at ANC July 1992. In the October 1991 OAG the ANC-LAX flight was DL58, Wed/Fri/Sun only.

Routing LAX-ANC-HKG, before the M11's came along and the route went non-stop, IIRC.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: deltacto
Posted 2013-02-15 03:46:28 and read 5249 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 51):
Going way back, in the early 1990s DL had 3 L-1011-500 nonstops a week LAX-ANC. Expect that flight continued somewhere in Asia
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 54):
Routing LAX-ANC-HKG, before the M11's came along and the route went non-stop, IIRC.

Exactly right - DL 88/89 LAX-ANC-HKG

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2013-02-15 05:50:50 and read 5131 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
LAX-HND going to a 76W makes sense. The A330/777 is too large for this market, especially with NH flying it as well.

Also going to a 76W to utilize the same equipment as SEA-HND. Both aircraft will be in HND at nearly the same time. Plus it helps balance out capacity with the new SEA-HND flight, and increase in capacity with the 744 on SEA-NRT.

Quoting panam330 (Reply 37):
Philly is a difficult nut to crack on trunk routes. Just ask WN. It's a rare case of US winning, nearly across the board. Jury's still out on VX to the left coast, and B6 hasn't started BOS just yet - but we shall see.
Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
I completely agree about PHL being a difficult market to figure out. UA kept their foot a bit wet in the market, but always seemed as if they were going to pull the plug, with the exception of the single rotation, and then, it got the axe. Is the market adqeuately covered by US operating 4-5 A321s daily?

PHL-LAX has a lot of competition, and numerous lower cost options (1-stop / connections). It is a trans-con route that does not have the yields or premium demand like JFK or IAD. You have or had WN & F9 offering good 1 connection options over DEN, MDW, etc. Plus you can easily connect on any other airline over their respective hubs.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
As for the routes themselves, I think it is DL tiptoeing around the big three that they aren't ready to fight for (ORD, DFW, IAD). They have to come sometime and there isn't much else DL can add without getting into that territory.

ORD and DFW are the most noticable ones missing from DL's LAX portfolio. They are 2 of AA's top-10 markets based on traffic. I really think DL would jump into DFW-LAX first. However, all of the domestic connections in LAX can be had over SLC. DL would be going for the O&D or some international & Hawaii connections.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: airbazar
Posted 2013-02-15 06:22:49 and read 5068 times.

LAX-BOS: DL has no choice but to add this route or they would be the only large carrier at BOS without a non-stop flight to the west coast, now that US is becoming AA.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2013-02-15 08:36:38 and read 4895 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):
Look at AA. They fly both LAX-JFK and LAX-EWR.

Yeah, but I would say that DL isn't AA. I just don't see how it provides enough benefit to be worth the fight. After all, AA only flies the route once a day on a 738. Maybe a redeye down the road but not for awhile.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 49):
When airlines add service on a major codeshare partners route, it's often not an instance of cooperating - it's because they know they are losing potentially valuable revenue, and want it for themselves.

I am not saying this isn't the case, but I also don't feel like there is a ton of animosity between codeshare partners when adding routes like this. Now if DL started SEA-JNU, then AS might be a little peeved. But DL starting routes out of LAX an airport they have shown their desire to grow in, and AS adding routes from their main hub, probably aren't causing anyone to worry.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
ORD and DFW are the most noticeable ones missing from DL's LAX portfolio. They are 2 of AA's top-10 markets based on traffic. I really think DL would jump into DFW-LAX first. However, all of the domestic connections in LAX can be had over SLC. DL would be going for the O&D or some international & Hawaii connections.

And when DL starts one or both of them, the fireworks will be something to see I bet. With corporate contracts, I just don't see how DL can not fly them though. Also I think ORD will cause more of a reaction from UA than AA, but who knows, there are already a lot of players in that market. DFW on the other hand is very much an AA route. It looks and seems a lot like LAX-ATL (a route noticeably absent from AA's LAX network...)

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 09:15:42 and read 4835 times.

IMHO we are going to see some LAX south stuff announced for the end of the year.....LAX-SAL/PTY/SJO come to mind

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 09:53:38 and read 4776 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 59):
IMHO we are going to see some LAX south stuff announced for the end of the year.....LAX-SAL/PTY/SJO come to mind

A trash-yield consolidator market (SAL); a low-yield, long-haul tourist market (SJO); and a market with only so-so local demand that DL won't grab (PTY).

All sound like winners!

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-02-15 10:05:41 and read 4722 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
It is a trans-con route that does not have the yields or premium demand like JFK or IAD.

It is also a route where US is huge (~60 percent share) without the benefit of much LAX POS. The merger is going to make the carrier that much stronger.

And incidentally, I see a higher fare than IAD-LAX a lot of quarters.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 10:33:59 and read 4640 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 60):
A trash-yield consolidator market (SAL); a low-yield, long-haul tourist market (SJO); and a market with only so-so local demand that DL won't grab (PTY).

All sound like winners!

Yes, and AA wasn't going to merge with US right?.....just like that statement, you are entitled to your opinion ....doesn't mean you are right.

We'll see soon enough.....

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-15 10:59:28 and read 4582 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 58):
Yeah, but I would say that DL isn't AA. I just don't see how it provides enough benefit to be worth the fight. After all, AA only flies the route once a day on a 738. Maybe a redeye down the road but not for awhile.

You know you bring up a good point -- only UA flies LAX-EWR with 1x redeye a day. Perhaps DL would consider LAX-EWR outbound redeye, early morning return.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 11:59:07 and read 4485 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 62):
ou are entitled to your opinion ....

My characterizations of those markets - besides the opinion DL won't grab LAXPTY local traffic - aren't opinions. Those are facts.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 12:07:04 and read 4449 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 64):
My characterizations of those markets - besides the opinion DL won't grab LAXPTY local traffic - aren't opinions. Those are facts.

Those characterizations of those markets represent a fixed point in time.....in the past. Much has changed and is changing.

The urbanization of Central America is a very real and fast moving thing....lots has changed even in the last five years. For example, five years ago in Belize oil production was but a dream, today it is the largest export....that brings jobs and a higher standard of living.

And don't forget DL now has 319s.....no need for 752s to those cities....

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: travelin man
Posted 2013-02-15 12:12:18 and read 4435 times.

I wouldn't be surprised to see DL start LAX-LIR. Costa Rica is incredibly popular in SoCal. Yeah it's a tourist route, but the fares are generally high, and unlike UA (which can route traffic via IAH), DL routes via ATL currently, making the trip much longer for West Coasters.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 12:13:16 and read 4455 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 66):
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL start LAX-LIR. Costa Rica is incredibly popular in SoCal. Yeah it's a tourist route, but the fares are generally high, and unlike UA (which can route traffic via IAH), DL routes via ATL currently, making the trip much longer for West Coasters.

Done and short-lived.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: travelin man
Posted 2013-02-15 12:14:22 and read 4428 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 67):
Done and short-lived.

Really, wow that must have been one of those "blink and you'll miss it" routes. When did they serve the route?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2013-02-15 12:26:00 and read 4420 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 58):
DFW on the other hand is very much an AA route. It looks and seems a lot like LAX-ATL (a route noticeably absent from AA's LAX network...)

Not so much like LAX-ATL.

It could very well be the case that AA's corporate customers do not demand LAX/ATL, but they do demand LAX/DFW. The corporate customer I referenced above demands LAX/DFW, which suits AA just perfectly.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 12:52:27 and read 4345 times.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 68):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 67):
Done and short-lived.

Really, wow that must have been one of those "blink and you'll miss it" routes. When did they serve the route?

Once-weekly, around '06-'07. I think it operated for two seasons.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: reggaebird
Posted 2013-02-15 12:58:56 and read 4332 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

I fly LAX-BOS (via JFK) very frequently. Invariably, I see several people from the LA flight on my connecting BOS flight. I really believe the DL market is there....especially if they fly the 75s with the BizElite seats.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 13:22:17 and read 4262 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 67):
Done and short-lived.

Doesn't mean it cant comeback.....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 70):
Once-weekly, around '06-'07. I think it operated for two seasons.

Again that was 5 years ago...see post 65. LIR is far different today than it was 5 years ago.

Oh how I wish I could save this thread, cause in the not to distant future someone is going to eat their words about LAX-Central America not being a target for DL.
  

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: usdcaguy
Posted 2013-02-15 14:38:29 and read 4150 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
IAH just isn't as big a whole to be worth the inevitable fight with UA.

This might be true, but why is AA doing it with double daily CR7s? There is currently no nonstop from IAH to SYD; AA and DL both could use the feed for QF or for DL's own flights.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2013-02-15 14:50:59 and read 4106 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 64):
DL won't grab LAXPTY local traffic - aren't opinions. Those are facts.

In what reality is a prediction on something hypothetical a fact?

Jeremy

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-15 14:59:33 and read 4105 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 74):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 64):DL won't grab LAXPTY local traffic - aren't opinions. Those are facts.
In what reality is a prediction on something hypothetical a fact?

I don't know if it's a fact per se but it's extremely unlikely that DL will capture any of the small local LAXPTY market, with 3 dailiy CM flights that can supplement the local traffic with all of Latin America. On top of that, it's a very long flight

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 72):
Oh how I wish I could save this thread, cause in the not to distant future someone is going to eat their words about LAX-Central America not being a target for DL.

Regardless of the volume, it's important to remember that whatever fare DL is getting to ATL, it will get the same fare to LAX, *at best*, and likely less, on a stage length that is close to double ATL. Cheap fares and long distances make LAX-Latin America very difficult, for any carrier.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 15:06:24 and read 4105 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 74):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 64):
DL won't grab LAXPTY local traffic - aren't opinions. Those are facts.

In what reality is a prediction on something hypothetical a fact


It's not. You need to re-read what I wrote.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 72):
Oh how I wish I could save this thread, cause in the not to distant future someone is going to eat their words about LAX-Central America not being a target for DL.

Feel free to save it. You've been claiming DL will build LAX-Central America, among other things, for going on 4-5 years now, and it still hasn't happened.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-15 15:18:44 and read 4093 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 72):
Oh how I wish I could save this thread, cause in the not to distant future someone is going to eat their words about LAX-Central America not being a target for DL.

Remember Delta has tried and failed miserably already.

In recent years we've had all types of attempts with flights to MGA, LIR, BZE, plus a ton of Mexico flying and LAX-GRU as well. Only thing stuck around to Cen America was LAX-GUA

Nothing changes the fact that LAX-Cen America is a tough market to operate for US airlines. Just go ask AA and UA.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-15 18:38:35 and read 3873 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 76):
Feel free to save it. You've been claiming DL will build LAX-Central America, among other things, for going on 4-5 years now, and it still hasn't happened.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 77):
Remember Delta has tried and failed miserably already.

Past success / failure is never an indicator of future success / failure. There are many routes that printed money that have dissappeared when market dynamics changed. Likewise there were many routes that were not viable then the market changed and they work now.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-15 18:41:14 and read 3893 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 78):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 76):
Feel free to save it. You've been claiming DL will build LAX-Central America, among other things, for going on 4-5 years now, and it still hasn't happened.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 77):
Remember Delta has tried and failed miserably already.

Past success / failure is never an indicator of future success / failure. There are many routes that printed money that have dissappeared when market dynamics changed. Likewise there were many routes that were not viable then the market changed and they work now.


Market conditions in Central America-LA have not changed in the past five years, other than the fact TACA is even more dominant than before. Same yields, same fares, same traffic, more expensive fuel.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-15 21:04:07 and read 3682 times.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 50):
and the 5 CR7's subleased to SkyWest are solely for FAT, BUR and ONT.

and SBA and LGB. Seems like the CR7 is a good fit for LAX-GEG actually, if AS wanted to start it again.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: LAXSTEW
Posted 2013-02-16 10:15:37 and read 3333 times.

Changes are loaded. LOVING this LAX growth. It's slow and steady, and seems to be sticking this time.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-16 10:51:12 and read 3253 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 67):

Done and short-lived.

They operated LAX-LIR in and around April 2008

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: delta2ual
Posted 2013-02-16 10:51:53 and read 3256 times.

Is AS putting their code on these routes? If so, then I don't see the big deal. It could potentially benefit AS too.
I know DL drops routes that lose money quickly (as does AS) but if they truly want to compete in LAX, which I think they must do, then they need to add routes and stick to them. Their corporate contracts in NYC are up 20% YOY. They need to have a good portfolio in LAX too.
DL should really push for JV/ATI with Virgin Atlantic and Korean to go with Virgin Australia. Keep building up SEA and with SLC they will have a decent operation in the west.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2013-02-16 11:32:51 and read 3201 times.

Loaded in GDS and looks like even LAXBOS and LAXGEG are seasonal. Only operating through mid-August.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2013-02-16 14:10:05 and read 3050 times.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 69):
Not so much like LAX-ATL.

It could very well be the case that AA's corporate customers do not demand LAX/ATL, but they do demand LAX/DFW. The corporate customer I referenced above demands LAX/DFW, which suits AA just perfectly.

For AA the two are not the same. But from a macro view they are very similar. Two large markets, dominated by a single carrier with a handful of options on another carrier. LAX-ATL with DL is to LAX-DFW with AA. I would argue that DL and AA should be flying both routes if they want the LAX market.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 73):
This might be true, but why is AA doing it with double daily CR7s? There is currently no nonstop from IAH to SYD; AA and DL both could use the feed for QF or for DL's own flights.

OH I agree, I think there is surely a market for some CRJ-900's or even a 319, I just don't think it is a priority. Though at some point DL will have to add it. Their won't be anything else to add  
Quoting delta2ual (Reply 83):
DL should really push for JV/ATI with Virgin Atlantic and Korean to go with Virgin Australia. Keep building up SEA and with SLC they will have a decent operation in the west.

This right here I think is actually the best thing for DL in LAX. Everywhere really. This would give DL a JV to LHR which would be big, but most importantly, it would give it a two hub operation across the Pacific. Where UA and AA limit themselves to their main focus cities TPAC, DL would offer flights from virtually every US city that has TPAC service. LAX Int'l would go up as well. This would also allow KE and DL to work together to allow DL to do some additional over flying with less need to connect US cities with ICN.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-16 17:40:56 and read 2870 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 79):
Market conditions in Central America-LA have not changed in the past five years, other than the fact TACA is even more dominant than before.

I am sure CM would disagree with you.


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