Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5688298/

Topic: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2013-02-12 06:14:45 and read 11240 times.

New service from SFO to both AUS and ANC...

USATody link

SFO-AUS begins May 21st: x1 daily

SFO-ANC begins June 6th: seasonal, x6 per week

[Edited 2013-02-12 06:18:22]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-02-12 06:22:12 and read 11170 times.

Way to go VX. I hope the SFO-AUS route does well and they increase it to 3x daily like SFO-DFW.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2013-02-12 06:22:53 and read 11172 times.

Great news for AUS! I'm admittedly skeptical that they will be able to fill up an A319 with B6 and UA already established on the route, but culturally, AUS seems like a good fit for the target VX customer.

Good luck to them!

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: HeeseokKoo
Posted 2013-02-12 06:23:59 and read 11172 times.

Finally to Austin. Awesome.

SFO-AUS 1015AM-335PM
AUS-SFO 500PM-700PM

so the timing is not duplicated with Jetblue's one daily flight. BTW, UA has 4 daily flights, 3 regionals and 1 mainline. I hoped VX open a couple of flights each to SFO and LAX, but this is still an awesome news.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-02-12 06:24:29 and read 11148 times.

Anchorage is quite interesting... when you think that they are getting new service with JetBlue, Virgin America and Icelandiar which are quite "cool" airlines. Is Anchorage the new hipster mecca (a la Portland, OR) or am I missing something?  

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2013-02-12 06:35:51 and read 11032 times.

Does anyone know what gate they will be using at AUS?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-02-12 06:40:10 and read 10958 times.

Hmmm..SJC-LAX, SFO-AUS...I'm guessing VX is trying to make a run for some of that Bay Area tech traffic. You'd think they would have tried to capitalize on that earlier.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-12 06:42:01 and read 10956 times.

AS used to operate SFO-ANC in the summer but chose to drop that and instead increase LAX-ANC to 2x daily. Maybe they learned something VX doesn't know? Will be interesting to see what kind of response there is...AS is offering triple miles this summer SEA-ANC in response to B6's SEA-ANC.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: Widget1580
Posted 2013-02-12 06:52:04 and read 10856 times.

VX has become so mainstream. All of the hipsters will flock to UA.

Can't wait to see VX in AUS!

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: luv2fly
Posted 2013-02-12 06:56:48 and read 10807 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 4):
Anchorage is quite interesting... when you think that they are getting new service with JetBlue, Virgin America and Icelandiar which are quite "cool" airlines. Is Anchorage the new hipster mecca (a la Portland, OR) or am I missing something?

Seasonal flights amd it is all cruise related I would bet money.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: md3
Posted 2013-02-12 07:07:37 and read 10713 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 4):

Anchorage is quite interesting... when you think that they are getting new service with JetBlue, Virgin America and Icelandiar which are quite "cool" airlines. Is Anchorage the new hipster mecca (a la Portland, OR) or am I missing something?  

I'd say B6 and VX are two modern LCC's entering a market that hasn't seen that type of attention before. FI on the other hand, neither cool nor modern, just another way to get to Europe with smaller aircraft for a lower demand city such as ANC. Just my opinion.

I do hope they do well but can see AUS doing much better than ANC for them.

[Edited 2013-02-12 07:09:19]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-12 07:45:07 and read 10440 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Thread starter):
SFO-ANC begins June 6th: seasonal, x6 per week

It will be interesting to see if AS defends their territory by adding back SFO-ANC. They have defended their Alaska territory in the past.

However, AS doesn't seem to show a lot of love for SFO, having dropped ANC, LAX, CUN, YVR, ZIH and MZT, plus the short-lived SAN and TUS in the past.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: Kleiner
Posted 2013-02-12 08:04:45 and read 10295 times.

VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast. They say they're going after legacies, but there's no doubt they mean AS.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: dwcontroller
Posted 2013-02-12 08:05:25 and read 10297 times.

Launching EWR and SJC with 3-4 a day, AUS x1 daily, ANC x6 a week. No new planes. Not cutting any routes.

Is there a frequency downgrade on the other markets? Where are the planes coming from? What cities are seeing less service?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-02-12 08:07:07 and read 10272 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
It will be interesting to see if AS defends their territory by adding back SFO-ANC. They have defended their Alaska territory in the past.

I think AS will add SFO-ANC

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 12):
VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast. They say they're going after legacies, but there's no doubt they mean AS.

Well the big difference is B6 actually makes money

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-12 08:10:17 and read 10238 times.

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 12):
VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast. They say they're going after legacies, but there's no doubt they mean AS.

That's just comical--AS is one of the most profitable carriers in the world, in terms of margin, and VX is probably right about now burning through its first $1B.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-12 08:14:18 and read 10199 times.

I'm truly surprised at what we're seeing from Virgin early this year. Most were expecting a very uneventful year in 2013 with a/c deliveries delayed, Cush's talk about concentrating on getting profitable and developing existing routes with little expansion, retrenching, etc.

So far, it seems like the company is on a pace to shatter past growth patterns. According to my records, the most new stations added by Virgin in a year over their brief 7-year history has been 4, which happened twice -- in 2010 and 2011. (In their start-up year, they "added" 5 cities but I don't consider that.)

So far in 2013 they've added EWR, SJC, ANC and AUS. And it's not even the middle of February! Plus, they've also connected a couple of dots this year -- LA and Vegas -- and that's VERY unusual! They also seem to be following separate courses from SF and LA more than before. EWR was started from both CA hubs but since then, all adds have been from one or the other. Interesting

I wonder if this activity will continue? Are we truly seeing some changes in the business model and expansion plans? I don't know if this will all help the bottom line but it's interesting to see something different happening... finally.

bb

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: DCAJet
Posted 2013-02-12 08:15:37 and read 10198 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Thread starter):
Is Anchorage the new hipster mecca (a la Portland, OR) or am I missing something?  

     

Nah, just cruise lines traffic. The VX product should appeal to the premium cruise line sector - Celebrity, Seabourne (sp?), so if their marketing team has done its homework, ANC could be a keeper for VX. Hope they do well, as God only knows we need some competition to UA @ SFO.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: UA735WL
Posted 2013-02-12 08:19:13 and read 10149 times.

Awesome that they finally decided to add AUS .....I'm going to SFO in July...now I know who I'm going to fly!);

[Edited 2013-02-12 08:21:01]
I do find their timing strange, though...with UA'S recent upgauge to mainline, it almost seems like they waited for their competitors to add capacity before starting the route.

Best of luck to VX though.  Smile


[Edited 2013-02-12 08:26:04]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-12 08:24:23 and read 10093 times.

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 12):
VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast

I don't particularly agree. Virgin is headquartered and hubbed in CA. AS is a major west coast presence; there's bound to be a lot of overlap on their respective route maps.

Virgin is still looking for the low-hanging fruit and doesn't generally care about how much competition there is on a potential new route. I would think that if VX were specifically going after AS, they would have jumped on LAX-ANC instead of SF-ANC. (Now if we see VX start SEA-AUS, I might re-think my stand!)

bb

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2013-02-12 08:35:33 and read 10017 times.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 2):
Great news for AUS! I'm admittedly skeptical that they will be able to fill up an A319 with B6 and UA already established on the route, but culturally, AUS seems like a good fit for the target VX customer.

That seems to be the VX model -- take routes UA flies out of SFO and fly them yourself. So far, they've gotten pretty good at losing money doing it, and at offering gimmicks like the status match. But who knows - as you point out, AUS-SFO might well be in VX's wheelhouse.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 14):
Quoting Kleiner (Reply 12):VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast. They say they're going after legacies, but there's no doubt they mean AS.

Well the big difference is B6 actually makes money

You can say that again.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-02-12 08:37:14 and read 10013 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 14):
I think AS will add SFO-ANC

Perhaps. VX hasn't pissed off AS for awhile. Maybe it's time for another investigation into VX's ownership.   

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SocalApproach
Posted 2013-02-12 08:42:42 and read 9955 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
I'm truly surprised at what we're seeing from Virgin early this year.

I couldn't agree more. Here we all are expected VX to be in hot water deferring plane deliveries and staying stagnant in growth because "they are out of money" but with all this growth it seems quite the contrary! I personally am very excited about all the VX news. I want them to stick around.

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 13):
Is there a frequency downgrade on the other markets? Where are the planes coming from? What cities are seeing less service?

There are cities already at this very moment with frequency cuts. I cant speak for every city but for SEA specfically over the past summer they were 4-5x daily on SEA-SFO. Now on some days they are as low as 1x daily SEA-SFO....1x DAILY! SEA-LAX has also seen cuts from the past summer and is as low as 2x daily from 5x daily over the summer. So they have the planes that are sitting around to do all this expansion. ANC is seasonal anyways and AUS is only 1x daily. That Can easily be run with an aircraft arriving from SEA/SAN/LAX or possible a city from the east coast since it doesn't depart until after 10am. VX may very well be going back to the strategy of 100% aircraft usage/day

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-12 08:45:59 and read 9943 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 21):
Perhaps. VX hasn't pissed off AS for awhile. Maybe it's time for another investigation into VX's ownership.

Yeah, I'm sure AS is just trembling in their boots over VX.

I can't speak for Bill Ayer and AS's leadership, but it appeared that AS just expects their competitors to play on a level playing field and obey the laws.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-02-12 08:46:22 and read 9927 times.

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 13):
Launching EWR and SJC with 3-4 a day, AUS x1 daily, ANC x6 a week. No new planes. Not cutting any routes.

They currently have 2-3 planes sitting around SFO daily as it is. They have a lot of flex in their scheduling as well.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 14):
I think AS will add SFO-ANC

I wouldn't count on it. As stated above, SFO has been dramatically decreased by AS. UAX has taken gate 24, so AS operates from only 2 gates now. And since '07 have dropped from 31 daily flights to 16 daily. If AS does restarted SFO-ANC, then they clearly have a beef with VX.

UA on the other hand, maybe add a 2nd daily?? We shall see....

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-12 08:50:42 and read 10464 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
Virgin is still looking for the low-hanging fruit

Virgin is looking for the oxygen mask. There is no low hanging fruit for VX, in case anyone hasn't noticed yet.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2013-02-12 08:50:44 and read 10383 times.

Quoting dwcontroller (Reply 13):

Is there a frequency downgrade on the other markets? Where are the planes coming from? What cities are seeing less service?

Anecdotal, but it seems they have some slack in their schedule (at least their current winter one). There are always a few planes sitting around at the remote stands when I go through SFO.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2013-02-12 08:58:09 and read 10565 times.

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 22):
So they have the planes that are sitting around to do all this expansion. ANC is seasonal anyways and AUS is only 1x daily. That Can easily be run with an aircraft arriving from SEA/SAN/LAX or possible a city from the east coast since it doesn't depart until after 10am. VX may very well be going back to the strategy of 100% aircraft usage/day.

Agreed. In the past, Virgin has had a lot of slack in their skeds, with many a/c sitting around in SFO (and LA?) so this could be just a matter of tightening things up a lot and getting those birds in the air. Most of the adds this year (since EWR) have been relatively short hauls so that could be most of what is going on.

I can say that our sked in SAN has not seen any significant changes in times or frequencies. Most of last year we were seeing about 5x daily flights (all to SF of course...) I know we are right now at ~4 daily flts and who knows what this summer will see; right now, it's at 4-5 per day in May/June.

bb

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: diverdave
Posted 2013-02-12 09:10:50 and read 10446 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
That's just comical--AS is one of the most profitable carriers in the world, in terms of margin, and VX is probably right about now burning through its first $1B.

Nothing like bringing a knife to a gunfight, eh?  

Quoting as739x (Reply 24):
If AS does restarted SFO-ANC, then they clearly have a beef with VX.

I'm thinking AS will restart SFO-ANC. UA should have no love for VX, and who knows, might even be persuaded to provide gate space for AS if needed.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Virgin is looking for the oxygen mask. There is no low hanging fruit for VX, in case anyone hasn't noticed yet.

Well said!

David

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-02-12 09:23:22 and read 10325 times.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 9):
Seasonal flights amd it is all cruise related I would bet money.

Yes, I know about the cruise traffic, but I was wondering if there is some kind of gentrification of ANC and would be in the typical "Top 100 places to go in 2014" in the NYT and hipsters are kicking away oil guys  . I don't know much about ANC but for instance I know they got a new fancy City Museum http://www.anchoragemuseum.org/calendar/calendar.aspx, which actually surprised me when I learnt about it not long ago (I meant, I didn't think Anchorage was to be the type of place getting those trendy cultural buildings).

Quoting md3 (Reply 10):
I'd say B6 and VX are two modern LCC's entering a market that hasn't seen that type of attention before. FI on the other hand, neither cool nor modern, just another way to get to Europe with smaller aircraft for a lower demand city such as ANC. Just my opinion.

I do hope they do well but can see AUS doing much better than ANC for them.

Well I would say Icelandair is very hipster (certainly my friends using it are). First, FI is not alligned to any alliance, so you don't get much alliance traffic (like VX). Secondly, Scandinavia (which are one of the main targets from the US) and particularly Iceland are easily the most hipstery countries in the world. For that reason, FI probably gets more tech'n'savvy traffic that plans travelling by themselves (instead of travel agency or circuit), even going to a place like Alaska.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2013-02-12 09:48:38 and read 10189 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
They also seem to be following separate courses from SF and LA more than before. EWR was started from both CA hubs but since then, all adds have been from one or the other. Interesting

Notice B6 followed the same path with JFK and BOS.

One size doesnt fit all in an industry with low profit margins.

This may work better for VX

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: sfoa380
Posted 2013-02-12 11:04:29 and read 9617 times.

It's really quite amusing reading all the hate that surrounds VX, especially from the AS folks. You all act like it's your money they're burning. Who cares!!! At the end of the day if everyone ups their ante as a result, we all win! AS--you used to be an awesome airline in the day and you have retreated to just mediocre--perhaps this is why you're profitable. HA is fantastic and they're (for the most part) profitable... So what's your excuse?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-12 11:15:05 and read 9447 times.

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 31):
AS--you used to be an awesome airline in the day and you have retreated to just mediocre--perhaps this is why you're profitable.

I fly AS all the time and find them to still be awesome. Not sure what your definition of mediocre is. Just about always on time. Very friendly crews. Very responsive customer service people if you call or e-mail. Were really awesome when I was MVP or MVP Gold. A very new comfortable fleet (and I still don't buy this bit about the A320 being more comfortable than a 738).

What incentive would I have to, say, select VX to fly from SEA-LAX instead of AS?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-12 11:18:58 and read 9414 times.

Quoting as739x (Reply 24):
If AS does restarted SFO-ANC, then they clearly have a beef with VX.
Quoting diverdave (Reply 28):
I'm thinking AS will restart SFO-ANC

I can not see why AS would start a 4-5 hour flight, on a route that they have previously retreated from, just so they can mess with a little 6x a week schedule from a carrier that is mostly unknown up in Alaska. AS did not become the financial rock that it is, making impassioned maneuvers. Now if VX started SEA-ANC like B6, I'd expect that reaction to be somewhat different.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Yeah, I'm sure AS is just trembling in their boots over VX.

Yeah can you see VX making a dent on a route that AS does not even serve? VX will most likely be mostly connection vs O & D IMHO.

Quoting diverdave (Reply 28):
UA should have no love for VX,

I would imagine UA has not been excited about an SFO based carrier that has entered multiple markets that UA previously dominated or were the sole carrier on from SFO prior to VX's arrival on the scene. I was living in SF when VX started up, and there were several hiring fairs for experienced airline personal. UA most likely lost some good employees to VX then.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2013-02-12 11:30:38 and read 9265 times.

This summer will be interesting for Alaska. Their cash cow anchorage route where they have 20 or so SEA-ANC flights will be competing now with JetBlue. ANC-SFO will also take away some traffic from AS even though AS doesn't fly SFO-ANC, many people connect.

The interesting thing with Virgin America and JetBlue to Alaska is that their satellite TV won't work.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2013-02-12 12:05:58 and read 8806 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 32):

VX is the best love the service

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: austinairport
Posted 2013-02-12 12:14:29 and read 8707 times.

Neat! I'll admit I was very shocked when this popped up on my Facebook feed.

I can't wait to see Virgin America at AUS.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: ASA
Posted 2013-02-12 12:21:30 and read 8649 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 34):
The interesting thing with Virgin America and JetBlue to Alaska is that their satellite TV won't work.

Interesting ... I didn't know that!

They'll probably play the movies for free - like in the Caribbean routes?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2013-02-12 12:29:44 and read 8587 times.

Quoting ASA (Reply 37):
Interesting ... I didn't know that!

They'll probably play the movies for free - like in the Caribbean routes?

Yes, when I did the LGB-ANC run, the TV's went out somewhere off the coast of Seattle. Movies were free.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: hatbutton
Posted 2013-02-12 12:41:20 and read 8392 times.

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 31):
It's really quite amusing reading all the hate that surrounds VX, especially from the AS folks. You all act like it's your money they're burning. Who cares!!! At the end of the day if everyone ups their ante as a result, we all win! AS--you used to be an awesome airline in the day and you have retreated to just mediocre--perhaps this is why you're profitable. HA is fantastic and they're (for the most part) profitable... So what's your excuse?

VX has stellar service and amenities but is wildly unprofitable, so what's your point?

HA makes money, which is better than losing money, but to sustainably grow an airline and pay for salaries that go up each year you need a healthy return, not just any profit. HA made money in 2012 but their net margin was only 2.7%. Compare that to AS at 6.8%. I also find it funny that you're using HA to compare to AS. Everyone bashes AS for their monopoly in the state of Alaska yet HA has a similar monopoly within the state of Hawaii. Nobody seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Sure Go! has an operation that helps keep fares in check a little bit but a few of the communities in Alaska also have competition like ANC-FAI.

When your profits are too low, you need to borrow money to grow and that just drags more on the bottom line. So it's not a true comparison to just say "hey, they're profitable" because there are degrees of profitability. B6 is another good example. They make money but much less money compared to AS and they are bigger than AS. B6's net margin in 2012 was 2.6%. Even on a dollar basis B6 only made $128 million compared to AS's $316 million. B6 have stated they will grow between 5.5% and 7.5% in 2013 while AS will grow 8%. AS can largely fund that growth through profits and won't need to go to the bank to do it.

You're also slamming people for bashing VX, yet now you're bashing AS? And I agree with another poster, you should define mediocre, because AS has the second highest load factor behind G4, so it appears that people aren't running away in droves because of this "mediocre" service. At the end of the day people want to get from A to B on time and at a reasonable price. AS does that. We always have known that and airlines like FR and NK prove it every day. So the bright lights and TV argument will continue to be moot until VX makes money.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-02-12 12:44:03 and read 8313 times.

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 31):
t's really quite amusing reading all the hate that surrounds VX, especially from the AS folks. You all act like it's your money they're burning. Who cares!!! At the end of the day if everyone ups their ante as a result, we all win! AS--you used to be an awesome airline in the day and you have retreated to just mediocre--perhaps this is why you're profitable. HA is fantastic and they're (for the most part) profitable... So what's your excuse?

This pretty much hits it all on the head, except the part maybe about AS being mediocre (though I'm not impressed, my opinion is really not important)

Some people above see it as a personal slight that VX would dare do something different to maybe TRY and stop bleeding money. Who cares? AS came to Hawai'i, and HA and AS play well in the sandbox together for the most part. Plenty of carriers play their games, and that's just business.

Calm down people. Just calm the heck down. Some of the comments are just straight up childish and one of the reasons its hard to take a.net serious sometimes.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-12 12:47:31 and read 8277 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 33):
I can not see why AS would start a 4-5 hour flight, on a route that they have previously retreated from, just so they can mess with a little 6x a week schedule from a carrier that is mostly unknown up in Alaska. AS did not become the financial rock that it is, making impassioned maneuvers. Now if VX started SEA-ANC like B6, I'd expect that reaction to be somewhat different.

Well said. The summer schedule is pretty firm at this point. No extra a/c will be sitting around to fly a route out of spite. While I'm sure they're annoyed the VX is coming north I don't think it will register a response other than triple miles SFO-SEA and SFO-ANC. Maybe even SEA-LAX as well....any route they compete on could be fair game for a little love from AS.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: deltaflyertoo
Posted 2013-02-12 13:19:42 and read 7969 times.

Quoting Widget1580 (Reply 8):
VX has become so mainstream. All of the hipsters will flock to UA.

LOL, agree. VX in my view has tarnished the Virgin band as a whole. THere used to be something special about taking that one daily VS flight to London (I KNOW 2 different owners but same concept overall) and now with the VX, cheeky, cheap feel and my FB updates from those who aren't exactly world travelers bragging about their next VX flight (while the well to do established fliers brag about the actual destination)-it makes me not want to fly any of the VIrgin brands (even though their service is good).

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 20):
That seems to be the VX model -- take routes UA flies out of SFO and fly them yourself. So far, they've gotten pretty good at losing money doing it, and at offering gimmicks like the status match.

Because that is what the VS model was built on out of Heathrow against BA. Go head to head with something different, and, it worked there but yes it seems a different story when you apply it on US domestic routes against something like United.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-02-12 13:21:23 and read 7957 times.

Quoting diverdave (Reply 28):
I'm thinking AS will restart SFO-ANC. UA should have no love for VX, and who knows, might even be persuaded to provide gate space for AS if needed.



UA will be giving no gates to AS. All the gates in T-1 are express gates and can not handle a 737. (UA) have no gate availability as is and it treading water till the E councourse is opened.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 39):
HA makes money, which is better than losing money, but to sustainably grow an airline and pay for salaries that go up each year you need a healthy return, not just any profit. HA made money in 2012 but their net margin was only 2.7%. Compare that to AS at 6.8%. I also find it funny that you're using HA to compare to AS. Everyone bashes AS for their monopoly in the state of Alaska yet HA has a similar monopoly within the state of Hawaii. Nobody seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Sure Go! has an operation that helps keep fares in check a little bit but a few of the communities in Alaska also have competition like ANC-FAI.

Well said. People seem to have a problem looking at VX in reality.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: AllegiantFlyer
Posted 2013-02-12 15:47:11 and read 6719 times.

Im in shock after seeing this....i had NO idea VX was even considering ANC

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-02-12 16:24:40 and read 6440 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 21):
Perhaps. VX hasn't pissed off AS for awhile. Maybe it's time for another investigation into VX's ownership

IIRC, Virgin Group owns 25% of VX & 51% of VS and DL will own 49% of VS, yet DL seems to be in bed with AS, so maybe what appears to be intense hatred on the West Coast, really isn't?

[Edited 2013-02-12 16:26:12]

[Edited 2013-02-12 16:27:47]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: diverdave
Posted 2013-02-12 16:45:11 and read 6255 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 32):
A very new comfortable fleet (and I still don't buy this bit about the A320 being more comfortable than a 738).

I would agree that the cabin interiors of the AS fleet are rather comfortable.

David

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SEA
Posted 2013-02-12 17:24:29 and read 5938 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Virgin is looking for the oxygen mask. There is no low hanging fruit for VX, in case anyone hasn't noticed yet.

Realistically though, there is no low hanging fruit for anyone in the US market at this point and economy.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-02-12 17:45:36 and read 5812 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 45):
IIRC, Virgin Group owns 25% of VX & 51% of VS and DL will own 49% of VS, yet DL seems to be in bed with AS, so maybe what appears to be intense hatred on the West Coast, really isn't?

Youre over-reading, Why would DL's relationship with VS which owns 25% of VX mitigate how AS responds to VX?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-02-12 17:57:42 and read 5704 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 48):
Youre over-reading, Why would DL's relationship with VS which owns 25% of VX mitigate how AS responds to VX?

From the looks of things VX appears to be holding off warfare with AS @ LAX.....just saying that DL may or may not have some influence going forward, esp if at some point VS/DL become more integrated and or VS/VX do the same.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-02-12 18:13:58 and read 5592 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 49):
just saying that DL may or may not have some influence going forward

This is highly unlikely. DL holds a share of Virgin Atlantic, which also has Virgin Group as a shareholder. Virgin Group - which DL have to relation to at all, other than them both happening to own a stake in the same corporation - owns 25% of VX. There is also no relation at all [ownership/management wise] between VS and VX.

Now, if VS and VX want a deeper cooperation then that would be different, although even that is unlikely given that DL would probably want VS connections going forward. If DL wanted a closer relationship with VX (AS style) then that would be entirely inclement on DL, and have nothing to do with their interest in VS.

In short, there is no link between DL's shareholding in VS and VX management.

[Edited 2013-02-12 18:48:27]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-02-12 18:27:33 and read 5484 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):
In short, there is no link between DL's shareholding in VS and VX management.

Which I am well aware of except that one doesn't know what the future will bring. I'm more interested in seeing what DL does with regard to VX's entry into the SJC-LAX market. At some point VX will probably have to depend on a VS/VA codeshare( if the Feds permit same) and at that point DL can't help but be involved.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2013-02-12 18:51:34 and read 5319 times.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 39):
VX has stellar service and amenities but is wildly unprofitable, so what's your point?

  

I'd love to hear what his point was, if any. Anyone remember McClain?

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/dixon-cannon/MGMGrandB-727.jpg

Premium service! Premium amenities! Put the other carriers to shame!

Oh yeah, and completely out of business in a handful of years.

You have to have a sustainable business model to earn the right to stick around, let alone grow. So far VX hasn't proved they've earned the right to either.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 39):
When your profits are too low, you need to borrow money to grow and that just drags more on the bottom line. So it's not a true comparison to just say "hey, they're profitable" because there are degrees of profitability.

  

Well-said!

[Edited 2013-02-12 18:52:11]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: DariusBieber
Posted 2013-02-12 19:41:25 and read 4955 times.

Seems like both these routes will be axed within a year or so. Don't see any of the yields being very high, especially SFO-AUS.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-12 19:54:26 and read 4890 times.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 53):
Seems like both these routes will be axed within a year or so. Don't see any of the yields being very high, especially SFO-AUS.

Oh.

If it's true that Virgin America gets a Silicon valley crowd, it could do okay - one high tech city to another. I wish 'em well, whatever happens.

mariner

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: DariusBieber
Posted 2013-02-12 19:59:41 and read 4869 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Oh.

If it's true that Virgin America gets a Silicon valley crowd, it could do okay - one high tech city to another. I wish 'em well, whatever happens.

mariner

It's just that United, Southwest (to Oakland) and JetBlue are already in this market. Don't see how four carriers can offer the same destination in a place like AUS.

[Edited 2013-02-12 20:00:03]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-12 20:06:29 and read 4817 times.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 55):
It's just that United, Southwest (to Oakland) and JetBlue are already in this market.

WN flies OAK-AUS 1x/day plus SJC-AUS 2x/day.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2013-02-12 20:14:59 and read 4768 times.

Sounds like Bay Area-AUS is already pretty well served. I bet UA will throw another mainline jet on SFO-AUS to replace one of the RJ's in response.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-02-12 20:23:37 and read 4702 times.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 42):
LOL, agree. VX in my view has tarnished the Virgin band as a whole. THere used to be something special about taking that one daily VS flight to London (I KNOW 2 different owners but same concept overall) and now with the VX, cheeky, cheap feel and my FB updates from those who aren't exactly world travelers bragging about their next VX flight (while the well to do established fliers brag about the actual destination)-it makes me not want to fly any of the VIrgin brands (even though their service is good).

Umm Virgin Atlantic has been flying for a while to Accra and Lagos, hardly hype destinations. And now they are even starting Aberdeen in Scotland (I think operated by EI though)... probably one of the greyest cities in the UK!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 56):
WN flies OAK-AUS 1x/day plus SJC-AUS 2x/day.

Does the Silicon Valley crowd fly Southwest's SJC-AUS or is it too unfashionable?  

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: mariner
Posted 2013-02-12 20:24:55 and read 4695 times.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 55):
It's just that United, Southwest (to Oakland) and JetBlue are already in this market. Don't see how four carriers can offer the same destination in a place like AUS.

Yes, I understand that.

But - again - IF it's true that Virgin America has a loyal following of techies, then AUS seems like a good city for them.

I guess I also find these gatherings of the a.net vultures in any Virgin America thread a bit depressing - same posters saying the same things no matter what the airline does.

mariner

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2013-02-12 21:00:36 and read 4477 times.

First of all, is anyone else appalled by the new VX route map? It looks awful compared to what they had before this expansion. Ok, rant over.

It is great to see VX further expanding - without cutting any existing markets and routes! It sounds like VX has now got itself a decent FF base, and is giving such folks what they want - Angelenos want Vegas, San Franciscans want Austin. That certainly sounds about right.

Quoting jetMarc (Thread starter):
SFO-AUS begins May 21st: x1 daily

AUS is the first what I'll call "open" market (outside of California) that VX has elected to serve from just one of its two hubs since they added LAS back during their initial start up in 2007. I think this is a great move, and I hope to see more of this going forward. Adding LAX-AUS would pit them head-to-head against WN, which benefits from network connectivity and extensive FF loyalty on both ends of the route, as well as a very well established AA service. SFO-AUS pits them against UA, which has primarily been operating pithy RJs on the fairly long route, and B6's p2p service linking together markets where they have negligible FF bases and little (AUS) to no (SFO) onward connectivity. Obviously from a competitive standpoint they'll have a much easier go at AUS, a station long rumored to be on the VX radar and befitting of their trendy/hip service, out of their SFO hub than LAX. As with LAS, they can always link AUS to the LAX hub later on down the line when the station is established and the local FFers are asking for nonstop service to it  .

Quoting jetMarc (Thread starter):
SFO-ANC begins June 6th: seasonal, x6 per week

I thought their addition of LAX-SJC was a surprising move, this one absolutely shocked me. It is interesting that neither B6 nor VX is at all afraid of AS competition, but WN still won't fly nonstop between SEA/PDX and Southern California! Given that B6 is apparently successful with ANC out of LGB, I can only expect VX to do quite well with ANC out of SFO. I am really liking these niche seasonal additions - PSP in the winter, ANC in the summer. Some have suggested VX trying ski markets like EGE, and perhaps that could be successful. Neither AA nor UA were successful at SFO-EGE, but I suppose it's always possible that VX could be the one to make it work...

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: StuckInCA
Posted 2013-02-12 21:04:18 and read 4463 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 32):
I fly AS all the time and find them to still be awesome.

This. I love VX, but assertin that AS is anything but great is really just a mistake. They've never done me wrong, and have quite often done the opposite.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-02-12 23:37:05 and read 3835 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 41):
Well said. The summer schedule is pretty firm at this point. No extra a/c will be sitting around to fly a route out of spite. While I'm sure they're annoyed the VX is coming north I don't think it will register a response other than triple miles SFO-SEA and SFO-ANC. Maybe even SEA-LAX as well....any route they compete on could be fair game for a little love from AS.

Well I know AS just found a way to use an otherwise RON'd plane and turned it into a PDX-FAI-PDX flight, w/o adding planes. I think there are so many opportunities like that for AS. I wish they has triple miles out of PDX to ANC, I would take a long weekend and get some much needed mileage. IMHO, VX will likely be flying people beyond the bay area, but I do not know the O/D market on that route.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: seahawks7757
Posted 2013-02-13 02:19:16 and read 3407 times.

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 12):

VX is using the JetBlue expansion strategy to go after AS on the west coast. They say they're going after legacies, but there's no doubt they mean AS.

They seem to be more after UA who operates SFO-EWR and SFO-ANC. Last time I checked AS doesn't operate either route.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 14):
I think AS will add SFO-ANC

Doubt it, especially since they added PDX-FAI today. Where would this plane come from?

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 7):
AS used to operate SFO-ANC in the summer but chose to drop that and instead increase LAX-ANC to 2x daily. Maybe they learned something VX doesn't know? Will be interesting to see what kind of response there is...AS is offering triple miles this summer SEA-ANC in response to B6's SEA-ANC.

Lets not forget that UA operates this flight seasonally too.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2013-02-13 07:54:44 and read 2604 times.

Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 63):
Doubt it, especially since they added PDX-FAI today. Where would this plane come from?

That is always a good question. But it can be funded from cancellations in other markets.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 58):
Does the Silicon Valley crowd fly Southwest's SJC-AUS or is it too unfashionable?

They definitely do. I think the SJO flight goes on to PDX also.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: stlgph
Posted 2013-02-13 08:11:47 and read 2598 times.

Coming down just minutes ago ... jetBlue adding second daily San Francisco to .... Austin for the summer season.

Oh and Ft Lauderdale

Beginning May 21.


edit - left out the word second here. oops.

[Edited 2013-02-13 08:13:50]

[Edited 2013-02-13 08:14:34]

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2013-02-13 08:20:56 and read 2527 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 64):
Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 63):
Doubt it, especially since they added PDX-FAI today. Where would this plane come from?

That is always a good question. But it can be funded from cancellations in other markets.

SFO-ANC would probably be a good market for AS's 737-700s. It's got the range and a smaller airplane for an emerging seasonal market.

I'd really like to see AS try SJC-ANC in the Summer.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-02-13 10:29:49 and read 2328 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 66):
SFO-ANC would probably be a good market for AS's 737-700s. It's got the range and a smaller airplane for an emerging seasonal market.

Most summer it was a 73G. I believe it was operated only one summer as a -800 and that was after I left AS. The 73G is actually not the greatest plane for the route when considering all the cargo, as the 73G doesn't have much of a fwd and aft pits.

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: psa1011
Posted 2013-02-20 07:52:01 and read 1680 times.

Looks like UA is already retaliating:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/20/ua-sfo-jun13/

SFO will have three flights to ANC on most days this summer. Guess it should be expected, as UA seems to be willing to double frequency on any route that VX starts (e.g., ORD, EWR), even if it seems like overkill. But can ANC really support that much capacity for even just the summer months?

I see VX is also adjusting down frequencies on some routes, maybe to make room for some new ones:
http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/20/vx-s13/

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-20 08:32:56 and read 1593 times.

Seems to me like VS is going for it all. Might was well throw caution to the wind and see what happens.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 4):
Anchorage is quite interesting... when you think that they are getting new service with JetBlue, Virgin America and Icelandiar which are quite "cool" airlines. I

Didn't ANC just get more DL service too?

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: psa1011
Posted 2013-02-20 09:17:19 and read 1531 times.

Yes, from LAX. And UA will also restart EWR-ANC (another blow to VX?)

Topic: RE: VX Announces SFO-AUS/ANC
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-02-20 10:34:42 and read 1437 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 33):
I can not see why AS would start a 4-5 hour flight, on a route that they have previously retreated from, just so they can mess with a little 6x a week schedule

I agree. I don't expect them to restart it. Specially how much they have downsized SFO.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/