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Topic: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-09-13 13:27:21 and read 22682 times.

Continuing the discussion from:

PIT Update Thread #23 (with Old Pics) (by PITrules Sep 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)

A reminder, please do not overload threads with images, as not all of our users have computers or internet connections that can handle a lot of images in a thread.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-14 14:46:12 and read 22417 times.

"Pittsburgh International Airport's Airmall getting a $10 million makeover"

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...airmall-getting-a-makeover-653352/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-20 16:39:55 and read 22127 times.

"Gas drilling bids sought for Pittsburgh International, Allegheny County airports"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-allegheny-county-airports-654245/

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ks-for-airport-gas-lease-bids.html


"Airport's Success Grabs Attention"
"Mike Boyd, an aviation consultant with the Boyd Group in Evergreen, Colo., said there is no competition between Pittsburgh International and Arnold Palmer Regional."
http://www.aviationpros.com/news/107...8/airports-success-grabs-attention

I'm not sure what Mr. Boyd is smoking; PIT and LBE are in the same MSA and LBE very much draws from all of it and beyond. Traffic at PIT is decreasing while its increasing at LBE.

[Edited 2012-09-20 16:47:57]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pgh234
Posted 2012-09-20 18:04:40 and read 22083 times.

Natural gas prices are at record lows...I'd certainly sit on this for a while.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-20 21:00:52 and read 22035 times.

Quoting pgh234 (Reply 3):
Natural gas prices are at record lows...I'd certainly sit on this for a while.

At first I thought the same. This is also the reason no one bid last time. When gas prices subsequently came back up Allegheny Co politics interfered as the County Exec was determined to funnel that revenue away from the airport, which of course is not allowed.

However, the royalties to be paid to the ACAA in this latest bid are on a percentage basis (18%), so it might not hurt to get a bid out to see if anyone bites. If gas prices come back up so will revenue.
http://flypittsburgh.com/UserFiles/File/pdf/bus_ops/Gas_Lease_RFB.pdf
This is not my area of expertise, so I really don't know if 18% is considered lucrative or not in comparison to similar deals.

I think the timing of this is more of a desperation move, as the ACAA knows their fees are not competitive and they need to come down. They are feeling the heat from LBE (see previous post), and possible daily service at YNG. Then there is the matter of OKC-CLE service on United. Some speculate that flight is to service the local energy sector (which Pittsburgh is in the center of). Personally I think Cleveland is removed from the energy sector and this is more of a matter of CLE simply being a hub for onward connections, including shale centers such as PIT, DUJ, FKN, BDF, etc

[Edited 2012-09-20 21:44:19]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-09-21 13:31:19 and read 21943 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 2):
I'm not sure what Mr. Boyd is smoking; PIT and LBE are in the same MSA and LBE very much draws from all of it and beyond. Traffic at PIT is decreasing while its increasing at LBE

The article went on to state that even though they are serving the same catchment, they're serving two different types of fliers. LBE targets mainly lesiure travelers while PIT handles mostly business travelers...

Still, they flying public is the flying pubic, and there is some degree of passenger siphoning taking place here considering the limited number of travelers within the greater PIT/LBE catchment...

Still, it's pretty cool to see PIttsburgh with two commercial airports serving it...  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-21 15:53:48 and read 21908 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 5):

The article went on to state that even though they are serving the same catchment, they're serving two different types of fliers. LBE targets mainly lesiure travelers while PIT handles mostly business travelers...

I read the article. PIT very much serves leisure travelers. In fact, in 2010 MCO was PIT's largest O&D market; TPA and LAS were in the top 5.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-09-21 18:06:36 and read 21857 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 6):
I read the article. PIT very much serves leisure travelers. In fact, in 2010 MCO was PIT's largest O&D market; TPA and LAS were in the top 5.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I know PIT serves leisure travelers. I'm saying that PIT serves more business travelers than LBE does. How far up on the list are Philadelphia, Atlanta, New York, and Chicago for PIT?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-21 18:24:52 and read 21838 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 7):
How far up on the list are Philadelphia, Atlanta, New York, and Chicago for PIT?

Here's where I got my data from; page 18:
http://74.209.241.69/static/entransi...nrod_BoardMembersCommissioners.pdf

I'm incorrect in stating MCO was PIT's largest market when you add the 3 NYC airports together.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dumbell2424
Posted 2012-09-23 16:34:02 and read 21651 times.

TSA is closing alternate checkpoint from 8am-2pm

http://www.timesonline.com/news/tran...3-2052-586f-91c8-6ddc95154580.html

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: BOEINGKID
Posted 2012-09-25 08:09:51 and read 21424 times.

Maybe they need to keep it open

Airline worker may have tried to slip security at Pittsburgh airport

http://triblive.com/home/2660700-74/...irport-breach-flight#axzz27UiYpVbr

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-09-25 09:46:13 and read 21388 times.

Quoting BOEINGKID (Reply 10):
Airline worker may have tried to slip security at Pittsburgh airport

Probably tried to go through the bagroom. That's instant termination right there, even if she only wanted to put her bag on the cart for the flight.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-09-25 20:23:33 and read 21248 times.

Good for whoever turned the individual in question in, very responsible and proactive. Even though that airport is pretty much dead it still deserves the same amount of diligence as other, more busy airports.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-09-25 20:36:46 and read 21242 times.

It's not that dead. Ever try to get through security on Sunday afternoons?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-09-25 23:47:27 and read 21214 times.

Passenger wise I am guessing no wide bodies but who regularly flies 757s daily into pit? us?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2012-09-26 03:31:53 and read 21187 times.

Quoting BOEINGKID (Reply 10):
Maybe they need to keep it open

Airline worker may have tried to slip security at Pittsburgh airport

http://triblive.com/home/2660700-74/...YpVbr

This story brought back memories... I remember when I worked for AE years ago, we were hanging out in the breakroom below Concourse D and a woman we worked with was flying one of our flights. She was hanging out with all of us, but prior to the flight boarding, they made her take her bag, ride back to the main terminal and go through security like everyone else.

The whole "Security" that the TSA provides is a joke and laughable, but that is another story for another thread. If there is one thing that makes me mad, it's watching a TSA employee trying to flex their muscles and making some poor innocent travelers life hell. They feel that they are high and mighty with their stupid blue shirts and fake badges, but really, they have one of the most pitiful and dispised jobs ever. ha. i wish TSA people would grow up and get real jobs.

NOTE: On a recent flight, i had a new big bottle of Cologne, and a tiny tiny bottle of Listerine (with the plastic wrap still arond the top un-oppened). The TSA jerk said "oh sir, you can't bring this on the flight", and i thought they were referring to the cologne, which i had just shelled out $60 for. Instead, they meant the tiny bottle of unopened listerine.... I was puzzled... I asked how i was allowed to bring a big spray bottle of cologne on the flight, yet, a sealed miniature bottle of mouth wash was not allowed??? Honestly, what could someone do more damage with on a flight, a bottle of cologne you could use as a form of mace to spray at someone, or a sealed bottle of mouth wash? Anyways, that's my little rant about PIT TSA. Any chance we can expect privatized security again in the future?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: N670UW
Posted 2012-09-26 04:10:22 and read 21185 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 14):
Passenger wise I am guessing no wide bodies but who regularly flies 757s daily into pit? us?

No scheduled widebodies. 757's from US Airways (to PHL) and Delta (ATL and CDG). United sends one in every now and then.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-26 20:22:24 and read 21026 times.

Airfare analysis between PIT/CLE/DTW/CMH/CAK:
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/money/co...arison-for-holiday-and-fall-travel

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-09-27 05:00:06 and read 20987 times.

DL is starting Daily A319 service to LGA starting NOV 5th.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-27 10:04:26 and read 20900 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 18):
DL is starting Daily A319 service to LGA starting NOV 5th.

Nice upgrade, but this seems only to be less than daily service for a few weeks centered around the holidays.



"Donald Rossi, airport authority chairman, reiterated the agency’s plans to build a new terminal and a parallel runway as part of an airport expansion. Rossi did not offer a timetable for the project, but the authority board this summer discussed borrowing as much as $20 million for the project."
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...o-authority-business#axzz27gQoMFTy

I knew about desires for a new terminal, but a parallel runway?! Getting ahead of themselves at LBE.

Anyway, here is a new background video on LBE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExdFKB2qUvY&feature=youtu.be

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-09-27 10:37:46 and read 20887 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 19):
Getting ahead of themselves at LBE.

I'll say. LBE is certainly not in need of another runway. The terminal on the other hand is definitely needed at the present. Still however that is a big commitment for a small airport to one carrier. Better keep it very simple and flexible in design so that it can be used for other purposes if/when NK loses interest.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2012-09-27 12:57:07 and read 20830 times.

A 20 year celebration will be held in the next week or so. I still remember my first time through this back in 1995...was 13 going out to DEN. Still wish I had access to connect through that facility.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pittsb...rport-celebrates-20-155800907.html

Quote:
PITTSBURGH, Sept. 27, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- On October 1, the Allegheny County Airport Authority will celebrate 20 years of the Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT) in its current facility and share the vision for the future in attracting more passengers, flights and economic development to the southwestern Pennsylvania region. A news conference will be held Monday, Oct. 1 at 10 a.m. at the Ticketing Level Landside Terminal. The Airport will also host Family Fun Day, a public celebration on Saturday, Oct. 6 at Pittsburgh International Airport from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m., which includes guided tours to the airside terminal and AIRMALL. Event parking will be free.

Since its opening in October 1992, the Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT) has been recognized as a world-class, technologically advanced facility and transportation system. PIT services more than 8 million travelers each year and remains among the top airports in the United States and world based on customer satisfaction.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-09-27 13:01:55 and read 20830 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 15):
The whole "Security" that the TSA provides is a joke and laughable, but that is another story for another thread. If there is one thing that makes me mad, it's watching a TSA employee trying to flex their muscles and making some poor innocent travelers life hell.

Yeah, like my wife's and mine last year flying back from SEA. If you want the whole story I can send you a PM rather than post it here...

Quoting N670UW (Reply 16):
No scheduled widebodies. 757's from US Airways (to PHL) and Delta (ATL and CDG). United sends one in every now and then.

Doesn't (or didn't) DL send a 757 to JFK?

Quoting PITrules (Reply 19):
Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 18):DL is starting Daily A319 service to LGA starting NOV 5th.
Nice upgrade, but this seems only to be less than daily service for a few weeks centered around the holidays.

Still, it's a nice upgrade even if it's for a couple of days out of the week.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 20):
Quoting PITrules (Reply 19):Getting ahead of themselves at LBE.

I'll say. LBE is certainly not in need of another runway. The terminal on the other hand is definitely needed at the present. Still however that is a big commitment for a small airport to one carrier. Better keep it very simple and flexible in design so that it can be used for other purposes if/when NK loses interest.

I've kinda been looking at the air field around ABE to see what they would do with a second runway should a need for it arise. If they're considering it now, I think they're jumping the gun. Yes, they're already handling way more people than they've ever had, but I still don't think it's enough to warant another runway. A bigger terminal, yes, perhaps, but not an additional runway. They need to build things as they're needed instead and not all at once...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2012-09-27 13:18:32 and read 20809 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 22):
I've kinda been looking at the air field around ABE to see what they would do with a second runway should a need for it arise. If they're considering it now, I think they're jumping the gun. Yes, they're already handling way more people than they've ever had, but I still don't think it's enough to warant another runway. A bigger terminal, yes, perhaps, but not an additional runway. They need to build things as they're needed instead and not all at once...

What I think they really need is radar at the tower. I've flown numerous times into LBE and either had to slow up or hold until an aircraft has landed before I can shoot an approach in IFR conditions.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-09-27 14:14:57 and read 20798 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 22):

Doesn't (or didn't) DL send a 757 to JFK?

Yes they did, last year. It went CDG-PIT-JFK if i remember correctly.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-09-27 17:27:54 and read 20906 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 15):
The whole "Security" that the TSA provides is a joke and laughable, but that is another story for another thread. If there is one thing that makes me mad, it's watching a TSA employee trying to flex their muscles and making some poor innocent travelers life hell. They feel that they are high and mighty with their stupid blue shirts and fake badges, but really, they have one of the most pitiful and dispised jobs ever. ha. i wish TSA people would grow up and get real jobs.

          

I agree wholehearted, and remember, they don't just pick on passengers, they can treat the employees like crap too. They gave a new-hire of ours crap for trying to go through security with a company ID as photo ID--that's allowed! The worst part about it was that we'd seen this lady for about four or five weeks prior and never gave us any grief whatsoever. One new-hire comes by and she becomes Gestapo, I don't get it--I don't think I ever will.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: N670UW
Posted 2012-09-27 18:06:24 and read 20882 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 24):
Yes they did, last year. It went CDG-PIT-JFK if i remember correctly.

They did a few days a week this summer too. I flew it JFK-PIT in June on the way back from MCO. Nice airplane. It continued onto ATL though, so I'm not sure of the purpose of that routing. I haven't seen it in the schedule for a while though.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-09-27 18:14:30 and read 21090 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 25):
Quoting Cush (Reply 15):
The whole "Security" that the TSA provides is a joke and laughable, but that is another story for another thread. If there is one thing that makes me mad, it's watching a TSA employee trying to flex their muscles and making some poor innocent travelers life hell. They feel that they are high and mighty with their stupid blue shirts and fake badges, but really, they have one of the most pitiful and dispised jobs ever. ha. i wish TSA people would grow up and get real jobs.



I agree wholehearted, and remember, they don't just pick on passengers, they can treat the employees like crap too. They gave a new-hire of ours crap for trying to go through security with a company ID as photo ID--that's allowed! The worst part about it was that we'd seen this lady for about four or five weeks prior and never gave us any grief whatsoever. One new-hire comes by and she becomes Gestapo, I don't get it--I don't think I ever will.

Im so proud of where our taxpaying money is going!! (i surely hope you all sensed that sarcasm...)

Quoting N670UW (Reply 26):
They did a few days a week this summer too. I flew it JFK-PIT in June on the way back from MCO. Nice airplane. It continued onto ATL though, so I'm not sure of the purpose of that routing. I haven't seen it in the schedule for a while though.

If i remember correctly too on this, When the Aircraft arrived from CDG, it turned to JFK. Right at the next gate was another 757 doing a turn to ATL. It was cool as hell to see 2 DL 757's.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2012-09-27 21:48:36 and read 21038 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 18):
DL is starting Daily A319 service to LGA starting NOV 5th.

It also makes the last departure at 7p instead of 7:45p with block time at over 2 hrs. A little insane. Don't like this change at all. Going back to flying on US.

Come to think of it, US used to run 321s on last flight out of LGA with occasional 734.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-09-28 08:03:02 and read 21007 times.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 26):

Somewhat off topic, but I had a chance to fly on a 753, but the assholes at the TSA ruined that for me by a mere 2 minutes! Yep, that was last year flying out of Seattle...

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 27):
Im so proud of where our taxpaying money is going!! (i surely hope you all sensed that sarcasm...)

You were sarcastic? Really? Gee wiz...  
Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 27):
If i remember correctly too on this, When the Aircraft arrived from CDG, it turned to JFK. Right at the next gate was another 757 doing a turn to ATL. It was cool as hell to see 2 DL 757's.

I like seeing any airline's 757 or larger aircraft there. Heh, back in the days of the US hub, numerous 757s (as in more than two at a time) parked down the A and B concourses were not uncommon...

On the subject of LBE, I am curious as to what their terminal expansion will look like, and where exactly the Laurel Valley Expressway will intersect with the PA Turnpike.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-09-28 09:05:44 and read 20940 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 29):
On the subject of LBE, I am curious as to what their terminal expansion will look like, and where exactly the Laurel Valley Expressway will intersect with the PA Turnpike.

I believe that the intersection with the Turnpike would be in the vicinity of Mount Pleasant, most likely on the New Stanton side, somewhere around the Chrysler/VW/Sony/Whatever it's called now facility.



Quoting steeler83 (Reply 29):
I like seeing any airline's 757 or larger aircraft there. Heh, back in the days of the US hub, numerous 757s (as in more than two at a time) parked down the A and B concourses were not uncommon...

I got lucky a couple of times this summer and caught four 757's (2 DL, UA, US) on the ground at the same time.

[Edited 2012-09-28 09:22:07]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2012-09-28 09:15:08 and read 20936 times.

With all the talk of the old days, I thought I was seeing things the other day from the Sam's club parking lot when I saw simultaneous approaches taking place......

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: MasseyBrown
Posted 2012-09-28 09:35:31 and read 20936 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 4):
Then there is the matter of OKC-CLE service on United. Some speculate that flight is to service the local energy sector (which Pittsburgh is in the center of). Personally I think Cleveland is removed from the energy sector and this is more of a matter of CLE simply being a hub for onward connections, including shale centers such as PIT, DUJ, FKN, BDF, etc

Chesapeake Energy, headquartered in OKC, has a regional exploration office in Uniontown, OH - spitting distance from CAK airport and about 50 miles from CLE. They don't generate enough traffic (yet?) to demand a CAK-OKC flight, but CLE is otherwise the closest.

Chesapeake is probably a big enough corporate contract that they can demand and get the flight. Prior to merger associated CO cuts, CLE-OKC was twice daily.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-09-30 01:56:09 and read 20724 times.

Regarding PIT's 20 year Midfield anniversary:
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12274/1265412-147.stm

Where to begin on this nonsense?
""It makes my stomach grind," said Tasso Katselas, the Pittsburgh architect who designed the complex. "I try to fly at peak hours so that it appears to be busy."

Mr Katselas designed a building based on concrete structure, while the world's airport design community moved to steel and glass structure. CVG T3, Munich, and several others opened during the same period and still look very up to date today, while the PIT baggage claim looks like a 20 year old concrete bomb shelter. I'm not sure why Mr. Katselas has a meaningful opinion on the matter? He did design a bus shelter locally, but other than that he keeps claiming to this fame.

"It's easy to forgive the 1993 master plan that calculated 40.8 million travelers by 2013, given that it would have taken a biblical prophet to predict the kind of upheaval in the airline industry that has left the midfield terminal a shell of its former self."

A biblical prophet's upheaval left midfield a shell of its former self? Or was it that this is Pittsburgh, a market which does not sustain the level of service seen in SFO, MIA, EWR, etc. C'mon Mr. Belko, really?

"A new concessions concept, called the Airmall, also took off, with a blend of national and regional retailers that were required to charge the same prices for merchandise and food as they did at their off-airport locations."

The term "Airmall" might have been coined, but PIT is hardly the first shopping plaza in an airport. ZRH, AMS, SIN, etc were well before.

"Mr. Katselas remains angered that federal and local politicians didn't secure guarantees from the airline to keep its hub in Pittsburgh in exchange for the billions of dollars in aid the airline received after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Quite frankly, they're the ones responsible for what we have now," he said.
"

Perhaps Mr Katselas can attempt to correlate the 9/11 attacks on the United States with why PIT should remain a US Airways hub today?

"With the congestion on the East Coast and at other major hubs, Mr. Katselas believes the county also should be pitching the fuel savings airlines can achieve operating out of Pittsburgh. One thing that sold US Airways on the midfield terminal was a study that showed the airline could save up to $12 million a year in fuel costs because of the X-shaped terminal design and its location in the middle of the airfield.

"It's a matter of realizing how economical it would be for them to operate here. They have to be shown facts and numbers," Mr. Katselas said.
"

Except that after midfield opened, Rwy 32 was still preferred for landing, which actually increased taxi burn, and 28L is still preferred for T/O (along with 28R), which also increases taxi burn in comparison to the old terminal.

Nowhere in the article is mention that it is plain expensive to operate at PIT in relation to similar markets.

[Edited 2012-09-30 02:11:06]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2012-10-01 11:19:14 and read 20458 times.

Pittsburgh airport marks 20th anniversary with Paris flights:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/...ersary-pittsburgh-internati/nSQcH/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-10-01 13:07:24 and read 20466 times.

In addition to the expanded CDG flights on Delta, Republic is about to double its workforce at PIT. They plan to hire 200 workers to service more of their aircraft there, which will bring their total workforce to 500. That's according to the Tribune Review:

http://triblive.com/home/2701611-74/...aintenance-currently#axzz284xboQQJ

Quote:
Meanwhile, Republic Airways Holdings plans to hire nearly 200 maintenance workers at Pittsburgh International in early 2013, said Bradley Penrod, executive director of the Allegheny County Airport Authority.

Republic, which operates Frontier Airlines, has about 300 workers at Pittsburgh International now. With the additional personnel, Republic plans to service more of its fleet here.

quote directly from the article...

edit: spelling error (expanded CDL flights? Sorry, it's been a long day for me...)

[Edited 2012-10-01 13:08:34]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-10-02 10:22:10 and read 20220 times.

From what I have observed DGS operates the inbound F9 flight from PUJ. Not sure if there are any other F9 flights out of there but I havent seen many of these supposed 300 republic workers already at PIT. Where are they?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-10-03 08:22:56 and read 20041 times.

Republic operates out of the old TWA hangers next to the Heinz hanger. On another note, does anyone know if a timetable exists for WN/FL and UA to con
solidate operations?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-06 17:02:37 and read 19698 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 29):

On the subject of LBE, I am curious as to what their terminal expansion will look like, and where exactly the Laurel Valley Expressway will intersect with the PA Turnpike.

Here are a few more details about both the terminal and Laurel Valley Connector, which seems more likely to be an upgrade to existing roads rather than a new expressway:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...port-connector-gets-update-656129/

""We're going to have about 300,000 people a year going to the airport next year with the expansion of Spirit Airlines flights to Dallas," Mr. Courtney said. Spirit currently flies to Myrtle Beach, S.C., and to Orlando and Fort Lauderdale in Florida, and the number of passengers has steadily increased in the past two years.

"The authority wants to expand and build a new terminal with two new gates, and bring the tower into the new building," he said. It is applying for a $20 million grant from the Federal Aviation Administration to do that.


Personally, I think a slight increase to the gate area and a second jetway to the existing terminal is more than enough. $20 million for what amounts to one more gate and a new tower is nonsense. OTOH, this would be in the form of a federal grant. If LBE doesn't get it, someone else will. LBE has been masterful over the decades at attaining grant money.



Speaking of 757s at PIT, United is now scheduling the occasional 757 on IAH-PIT. But what I find more remarkable is the number of 737-900s now on the route, which essentially have the same capacity. For example, Oct 19 shows 1 757 in addition to 3 737-900s, and a 738. Some days are all 739s. This is obviously the energy sector 'fueling' this. Only a few years ago PIT-IAH was 3 daily ERJs but is now 5 mainline, most of which are 739s.

[Edited 2012-10-06 17:36:48]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: boeingkid
Posted 2012-10-06 20:40:21 and read 19623 times.

Airport wants TSA to open Airmall to public

http://triblive.com/news/2710558-74/...t=Google+Feedfetcher#axzz28a4YXSvd

Maybe it would lower the landing fees

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: threeifbyair
Posted 2012-10-07 08:37:30 and read 19569 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 38):
Speaking of 757s at PIT, United is now scheduling the occasional 757 on IAH-PIT. But what I find more remarkable is the number of 737-900s now on the route, which essentially have the same capacity. For example, Oct 19 shows 1 757 in addition to 3 737-900s, and a 738. Some days are all 739s. This is obviously the energy sector 'fueling' this. Only a few years ago PIT-IAH was 3 daily ERJs but is now 5 mainline, most of which are 739s.

Impressive growth. That probably explains why I see so many PIT-IAH-SEA connections available on UA, despite the terrible routing. IAH unfortunately isn't an efficient connection point for most US destinations ex-PIT.

UA seems to be providing a lot of westbound capacity into PIT, though, vs. DL. Fares are commensurately lower as well. I'm still hoping for AS, though, as I'm making the trek to SEA a lot now.   

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-07 13:36:59 and read 19457 times.

Looks like they opened an exhibit in the Airside terminal showcasing the terminal's 20 year anniversary.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...airports-family-fun-day-event.html

Kind of funny the photo of the model display of aircraft to come through PIT - half of those were either single charters or diversions (UA 744, CO 772 & 764). I don't remember a Concorde flight in the last 20 years either, although it was used to launch BA service in 1985.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: NWADC9
Posted 2012-10-07 17:36:21 and read 19377 times.

I was a bit bummed I had to miss out on the event due to work and other tasks, but now that I know Delta had a 757-200 open to the public, I'm ticked!

Quoting PITrules (Reply 41):

Looks like they opened an exhibit in the Airside terminal showcasing the terminal's 20 year anniversary.

Looks like the old children's clothes store. Or was it a toy store?

Quoting PITrules (Reply 41):
I don't remember a Concorde flight in the last 20 years either, although it was used to launch BA service in 1985.

Concorde flew into PIT?  Wow!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-07 18:46:49 and read 19383 times.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 42):

Here's for the inaugural BA service in 1985:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...04503&dq=concorde+pittsburgh&hl=en

Pic:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...60520&dq=concorde+pittsburgh&hl=en

Looks like it returned later in 1985 as well:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...49209&dq=concorde+pittsburgh&hl=en

I might be corrected on visits during the new terminal era:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...33032&dq=concorde+pittsburgh&hl=en
(That would have been only a couple days after the new terminal opened)

Again in 1994:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/...ort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

.. And 2002:
"Pittsburgh Post-Gazette : NO HEADLINE

$2.95 -
"Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Feb 24, 2002
The Concorde is coming to Pittsburgh on May 14, as part of a unique 10-night trip organized by Montclair Travel of Saint Louis. Passengers will fly directly from ... .
"
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/...ort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM


After all that, this one says Concorde only made the one visit in 1985:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...97240&dq=concorde+pittsburgh&hl=en

I dunno, its a mystery. I'd think there would be more pics of this if all these flights did indeed happen but the only one I could find is the one linked above for the BA inauguration.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-10-20 16:55:07 and read 18736 times.

I apologize for asking this a week after it was in PIT but I had a photo I had taken with my phone but unfortunately it keeps appearing sideways when I try to upload it so I figured it would be better to not post it so people are not looking at the image and get a kink in their neck.

As to what I am referring...Last Sat (10/13) a UA 763 (N661UA, still in Tulip livery) landed at PIT after being diverted on its original route IAD-ORD. Looking at the flight path it appeared the ac back-tracked somewhat to come back to PIT.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...A/history/20121013/2115Z/KIAD/KPIT

It stayed overnight at C61 and departed on Sun (10/14) for ORD.

2 Questions: 1) Was wondering if anyone could give some insight on why it diverted to PIT and stayed overnight.

2) After the ac left the gate it taxied over to PIT's cargo area and parked behind the UPS aircraft. There they removed the baggage cans from under the plane and it departed shortly thereafter. Why is this?

From my vantage point upon departure it appeared to me that the plane was empty (no pax or baggage). I say this because it was up in the air way before I am used to seeing planes rotate on 28R.
Also the cans that were removed from the plane were loaded into a semi truck and sent who knows where on Monday.

Just my curiosity getting the best of me...Thanks!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-10-21 07:17:36 and read 18604 times.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 44):
2 Questions: 1) Was wondering if anyone could give some insight on why it diverted to PIT and stayed overnight.

There was a medical situation onboard. All the pax were deplaned and rebooked. Major pain in the arse. Fortunately, working the Express side means I didn't have to deal with it.

On a further note, the ExpressJet/United Express station closed last Monday. Essentially the last vestige of Continental Airlines in Pittsburgh closed with it. 25 years of dedicated service and great times. Easily the saddest day of my airline career. I am now working for American Eagle working the United ticket counter. At least I got full-time, now to find out when my days off are!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-10-22 05:29:34 and read 18446 times.

WN is starting PIT-HOU on 4-14. and LAS is going to 2x daily.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-22 07:59:01 and read 18392 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 46):
WN is starting PIT-HOU on 4-14. and LAS is going to 2x daily.

HOU is both predicted and welcome. Competition to Houston is very welcome. The amount of energy traffic from there was just discussed in this thread, and with lower fares hopefully the market will be stimulated even more. Many of the Marcellus and Utica Shale workers still drive up from Texas - hopefully this will convince some to fly.

What I find really interesting is HOU (along with the short lived DL SLC flight) will be a service which Pittsburgh never had before even in the peak hub days.


LAS actually is already served 2x daily; IIRC they had 3x daily at one point.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-10-22 08:03:19 and read 18382 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 47):
What I find really interesting is HOU (along with the short lived DL SLC flight) will be a service which Pittsburgh never had before even in the peak hub days.

Not Hobby, of course. IAH has been served since about 1980, IIRC. About time WN started this, even though it gives UA some competition.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-22 08:29:02 and read 18352 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 48):
Not Hobby, of course. IAH has been served since about 1980, IIRC

I'm referring to HOU; I still find it an interesting little factoid

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tooluther
Posted 2012-10-22 10:48:01 and read 18327 times.

It will be interesting to see what UA's response is on PIT-IAH. It is not a cheap route to fly right now, but IIRC they have added lots of new capacity since the merger??? So they must be making money there.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-10-22 13:01:01 and read 18262 times.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 50):
It will be interesting to see what UA's response is on PIT-IAH. It is not a cheap route to fly right now, but IIRC they have added lots of new capacity since the merger??? So they must be making money there.

Yeah, what do they have between the two now, a mix of 738, 739 and a 757 now at times?

Nice to see WN adding yet another destination. How many times daily will they serve?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-10-22 15:38:22 and read 18277 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 47):
LAS actually is already served 2x daily; IIRC they had 3x daily at one point.

It actually goes down to 1x (738) daily on 1/6/13. So its nice to see WN put it back up to 2x.



Quoting steeler83 (Reply 51):

Nice to see WN adding yet another destination. How many times daily will they serve?

1x Daily to HOU.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2012-10-29 15:14:47 and read 17879 times.

Another thread had this link posted, so I wanted to repost. Look at all the USAirways aircraft in Concourse B today... Imagine seeing the same US presence today. *sigh* How i wish =)

Here is a link: (3) Photos - http://1iny.com/88927/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-10-30 08:35:19 and read 17630 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 53):

Yep, that was nice to see all those US birds if even for just a brief time. I'm sure they're all back flying now that PHL is open again. Does US still have a presence at LGA? That airport along with JFK and EWR are all shut down until further notice. Major flooding taking place at all three...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-10-30 19:05:07 and read 17498 times.

Dick's Sporting Goods looks to be increasing the size of its corporate campus on the airport by at least 1/3 (by 200,000-300,000 sq ft)
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...y-county-Dicks-Sporting-Goods.html

Other real estate news:
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ens-at-airport-office-park-659302/

Amongst all the AWE ferry flights is this delivery flight from Hamburg, kind of unique because it stopped in Goose Bay instead of the usual KEF or BGR.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE9244

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-10-31 01:00:44 and read 17401 times.

Anyone know what these two flights were about? I can't say we have ever previously had these flights come here.

I was just thinking the other day about it would cool to see a caravan come into here and then of course. It does when I'm not at the airport.

Tonight's: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WIG298A
Saturday's : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WIG431

Now I have been to the airport twice since Saturday and didn't notice it sitting on the ramp either time, so I'm thinking it has not been sitting here all this time.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-03 14:06:40 and read 17230 times.

Perhaps the shortest ever 757 flight from PIT?
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9729

CKB now has a 7000' runway, and now handles most if not all WVU related sports charters.





I few years ago I posted a number of archived news articles covering the air service and development of PIT over the decades, but was unable to post anything regarding the opening of the midfield terminal because of pay walls. However, I just found this edition of the Beaver County Times with a special 48 page section dedicated to the new terminal opening.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...IBAJ&pg=2445,3540520&dq=pittsburgh

At the top right there is a little window to select a page. Type in "66" to get to the first page of the insert.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-04 07:02:31 and read 17052 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 57):
However, I just found this edition of the Beaver County Times with a special 48 page section dedicated to the new terminal opening.

Had that in my collection for ages, musta got thrown out about a decade ago, LOL. Great photo archives in there! Remember, when the old terminal closed and the new one opened, the Press and PG were still on strike, the Beaver County Times was the only newspaper that did a major story on it!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-04 11:09:32 and read 16958 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 58):
Had that in my collection for ages, musta got thrown out about a decade ago, LOL. Great photo archives in there! Remember, when the old terminal closed and the new one opened, the Press and PG were still on strike, the Beaver County Times was the only newspaper that did a major story on it!

That explains the lack of coverage from the P-G then. I still have the Beaver County Times issue linked above, as well as a commemorative magazine from the old Allegheny Co Dept of Aviation and a bunch of other stuff which I'll get around to scanning and uploading

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dumbell2424
Posted 2012-11-05 10:23:02 and read 16800 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 56):

Anyone know what these two flights were about? I can't say we have ever previously had these flights come here.

I was just thinking the other day about it would cool to see a caravan come into here and then of course. It does when I'm not at the airport.

Tonight's: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WIG298A
Saturday's : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WIG431

Now I have been to the airport twice since Saturday and didn't notice it sitting on the ramp either time, so I'm thinking it has not been sitting here all this time.

Wiggins is a FedEx operator. They park on the cargo ramp, usually right up against the fence on 376 Business Loop. They typically fly UNV-PIT three times a day.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-05 11:26:21 and read 16784 times.

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 60):

Although he wasn't specific in his post, I assumed he meant what were they doing in BVI?

Perhaps some routine maintenance inspections which may be cheaper to carry out there than at PIT. Just a guess.

[Edited 2012-11-05 11:34:13]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-11-05 14:38:57 and read 16783 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 61):

Correct, that is the first time I have ever heard of them coming here.

Supposedly, on Saturday it taxied to Prospect Aviation (the other fbo on field) and parked but I can't think of anything Wiggins would need them for that they couldn't get done down at pit.

Does anyone know if Wiggins use special flight numbers for MX or charter flights?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: N670UW
Posted 2012-11-05 15:28:35 and read 16794 times.

The aircraft was parked in a hangar during its stay at BVI. Potentially to keep the aircraft out of the elements from Hurricane Sandy. The aircraft did not leave between its inbound and outbound flights.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-11-05 21:43:18 and read 16782 times.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 63):

Ok, that explains why I never saw it while I was there. Prospect had one hell of a full hangar then... Lear 31, king air 200, two conquest II's, a Corvallis, a 414 and 421 plus the caravan.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-06 12:11:29 and read 16781 times.

"Solobay: Commission close to announcing funding for beltway corridor
11/4/2012 5:43 AM

A state lawmaker claims the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is close to announcing a funding source to begin construction of a long-stalled Southern Beltway toll road corridor linking Southpointe to Pittsburgh International Airport. State Sen. Tim Solobay said his conversations with Gov. Tom Corbett and Turnpike Commission officials indicate a ground-breaking for the road could be announced before the end of the year or in early 2013, bringing to life a transportation project many believed would never come to fruition"

This would be huge if it gets completed, even if its only to I-79 and Southpointe.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-11-06 13:42:27 and read 16792 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 65):
This would be huge if it gets completed, even if its only to I-79 and Southpointe.

It would be huge. You'd have (PA) 576 link two major interstate highways in the region with the completion of this link. Volume should pick up considerably once it's opened...

Regarding the eastern/northern end of this beltway/highway system, I think they should just axe the segment leading to the City of Pittsburgh and just go with the segment to I-376 in Monroeville. There is a lot of public opposition to this anyway in addition to the increased costs. I would like to see some road be built between Rankin and Hazelwood tho, but I envision a boulevard or landscaped parkway rather than a limited-access freeway...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-08 10:00:11 and read 16774 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 66):

Regarding the eastern/northern end of this beltway/highway system, I think they should just axe the segment leading to the City of Pittsburgh and just go with the segment to I-376 in Monroeville. There is a lot of public opposition to this anyway in addition to the increased costs. I would like to see some road be built between Rankin and Hazelwood tho, but I envision a boulevard or landscaped parkway rather than a limited-access freeway...

I think building the segment to Monroeville would be a good compromise, although I would like to see the entire thing get built. A boulevard alone isn't gonna do much. I like the Expressway on the north side of the Mon, and upgrade the existing roads on the south into a functional boulevard.

I forgot to add the link to what I quoted; here it is:
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Print/11-04-2012-Solobay-beltway



"Airport shuffles gates, seeking savings for merged airlines"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...avings-for-merged-airlines-661163/

I'm not sure what the benefit of moving United to A is as long as C remains open for JetBlue, Frontier, CDG, and extra gates. So now if WN wants more gates on A they have to move the sealed off wall while C sits open and mostly unused??? Boosting the concessions on A at the expense of whats left on C is the only thing I can think of.


"Airport traffic continues decline in September"
http://triblive.com/business/headlin...ity-compared-monthly#axzz2BbSzqPYD

[Edited 2012-11-08 10:03:21]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-11-08 12:57:23 and read 16766 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 67):
I think building the segment to Monroeville would be a good compromise, although I would like to see the entire thing get built. A boulevard alone isn't gonna do much. I like the Expressway on the north side of the Mon, and upgrade the existing roads on the south into a functional boulevard.

I forgot to add the link to what I quoted; here it is:
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/...ltway

Yeah, but the thing is, there is a ton of public opposition to the expressway on the northern shore of the Mon River. I do think that a road is very necessary there. I imagine there is a need for people to travel between Hazelwood and Rankin, but the people don't want to have a freeway cut right through the center of either neighborhood. I really cannot blame them if you ask me. Hazelwood is trying to make a come-back. It suffered a lot when the LTV mill closed. I think eminent domaining properties along 2nd Avenue and building a long landscaped boulevard (with perhaps a LRT extension included going down the median or adjacent to the road), linking up with Braddock Avenue in Rankin/Braddock. I'd really like to see this boulevard go all the way to McKeesport, but I'm not sure of how likely/possible/feasible that would be.

But sure, a limited access highway would be nice to have as far as traffic relief is concerned, but you do have to consider the general public...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-08 21:40:29 and read 16779 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 67):
I'm not sure what the benefit of moving United to A is as long as C remains open for JetBlue, Frontier, CDG, and extra gates. So now if WN wants more gates on A they have to move the sealed off wall while C sits open and mostly unused??? Boosting the concessions on A at the expense of whats left on C is the only thing I can think of.

F9 is handled by DL, period. They will NOT be returning to PIT on their own. . Republic will make sure of that, they make too much money for other people for that to happen. As for UA on A, they've been talking about it since the merger with CO closed, and nothing, I repeat, nothing has been done to get those gates ready for daily use. All the available space under A2, A4, A6, A8 and A10 is roads (the old tunnels for the US hub in A). There is no space for breakrooms or offices under the gates there. This is just posturing so the ACAA looks active, folks. I have no idea when UA will move into their own space, even the UA people don't know.

I'm also not surprised that B6 is still being singled out for exclusive space, when they only have 5 flights a day, typical PIT posturing. I don't believe a word of this gobledy-gook, folks.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-08 22:27:11 and read 16770 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 68):

Seems like half the public opposition comes from one person - John Fetterman. Also, due to topography, the overall amount of displacement is actually quite minimal considering the proposed route is right into the middle of an urban area. It's all irrelevant however as long as there is no money.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 69):

F9 is handled by DL, period. They will NOT be returning to PIT on their own. .

The point remains however that Frontier uses the C concourse for their arrivals. I'm not sure what you mean by "on their own", but they do market and sell their own tickets for their PIT flights; its not just Apple Vacations. Who does the ground handling is irrelevant.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-11-09 07:49:26 and read 16762 times.

To me I feel like "they" (whomever has the ability to do so) should move what is left of the CO operation from D to C so that they would at least be in the same concourse and consolidate the UA operation. They obviously wont be shutting down C considering that is where customs is located so they might as well occupy the open gates. Looks pretty empty over there with the single B6 gate in use. In addition, they gates should still be in pretty good condition. FL only left there about 2 weeks ago. From what I understand B6 will also be moving down to C52 once the jetway is refurbished.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-09 09:02:53 and read 16763 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 70):
The point remains however that Frontier uses the C concourse for their arrivals. I'm not sure what you mean by "on their own", but they do market and sell their own tickets for their PIT flights; its not just Apple Vacations. Who does the ground handling is irrelevant.

Yeah, they're international flights. They have to be handled on C. Both scheduled charters come from PUJ and/or CUN. I saw PITCLE on F9 on the FIDS screen the other night, must be a ferry flight.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: NWADC9
Posted 2012-11-09 11:27:24 and read 16760 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 72):
I saw PITCLE on F9 on the FIDS screen the other night, must be a ferry flight.

I think PIT's a stop on what really is a PUJ/CUN-PIT-CLE routing.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2012-11-12 13:30:16 and read 16749 times.

As I'm in the process of shopping around for a ski vacation for my parents, I notice that DL has brought back CLT-SLC in response to US. I keep hoping DL will bring back PIT-SLC (as I recall it got whacked along with MIA, RDU, CLT, BHM, and CMH). If I recall correctly it bounced around between 738s, MD-90s (probably too much capacity), and CR9s (probably too long for it). To me, the perfect aircraft for Delta would be a daily 319, maybe seasonally in winter for ski traffic.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-11-12 13:38:15 and read 16745 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 74):
As I'm in the process of shopping around for a ski vacation for my parents, I notice that DL has brought back CLT-SLC in response to US. I keep hoping DL will bring back PIT-SLC (as I recall it got whacked along with MIA, RDU, CLT, BHM, and CMH). If I recall correctly it bounced around between 738s, MD-90s (probably too much capacity), and CR9s (probably too long for it). To me, the perfect aircraft for Delta would be a daily 319, maybe seasonally in winter for ski traffic.

Yeah, I posted some things here and there as well. The thing is that there wasn't enough O&D, and I think the timing for any connections wasn't all that great either... If my memory serves me correctly. I believe USPIT10L has more info on this one...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: N670UW
Posted 2012-11-12 13:51:21 and read 16772 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 74):
I keep hoping DL will bring back PIT-SLC (as I recall it got whacked along with MIA, RDU, CLT, BHM, and CMH). If I recall correctly it bounced around between 738s, MD-90s (probably too much capacity), and CR9s (probably too long for it).

Correct. Though I'd love to see SLC-PIT return, the problem for a market like PIT was the service was pre-merger, and MSP-PIT has largely shot down the need for SLC-PIT.

MSP-PIT has more local traffic, and MSP offers many of the same connections (Mountain West, West Coast) that SLC offered. The number of DL destinations that were SLC-exclusive when the SLC-PIT service around is probably pretty small that can't be reached through ATL, MSP or DTW.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2012-11-12 14:13:33 and read 16827 times.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 76):
MSP-PIT has more local traffic, and MSP offers many of the same connections (Mountain West, West Coast) that SLC offered. The number of DL destinations that were SLC-exclusive when the SLC-PIT service around is probably pretty small that can't be reached through ATL, MSP or DTW.

Many, but not all. The three biggest are Oakland, Long Beach, and Reno. While MSP covers the Dakotas/Montana, there are also a fair number of second tier West Coast destinations that are only via SLC (or LAX, which DL doesn't do from Pittsburgh either): Medford, Redmond, Burbank, Eugene, Pasco, and Ontario. Also, a few tinier destinations in the Mountain West like Elko, St. George, Butte, Idaho Falls, Sun Valley, and Pocatello. Enough to support a daily flight? My gut says no, though I wonder if the booming energy industry might help some compared to the last go around.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-11-13 05:22:02 and read 16820 times.

Looks like DL is adding seasonal PIT-MCO Saturday only flights starting February 16th. Equipment is a 319.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-13 07:16:38 and read 16801 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 75):
If my memory serves me correctly. I believe USPIT10L has more info on this one...

Yeah, the timings were terrible. IIRC, it got in from SLC at about 1600 and left at 1630, at the same time as a WN departure. As we all know, when WN and someone else push at the same time, WN always, always gets clearance before the other airline. Plus, the SLC flight was often late by five or ten minutes, making the turn time even less desirable. Basically, the flight was poorly blocked. Add to that the low-yielding nature of the connections, and you have a low-yielding loser. Don't expect DL to bring this one back, period. If it doesn't make money, they won't fly it these days, period.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 78):
seasonal PIT-MCO Saturday only flights starting February 16th. Equipment is a 319.

First time since 1995. Back then it was a once-daily CRJ. Before that, DL flew it seasonally in 1988 and 1989. In 1988 it was a twice-daily 72S, in 1989 it was one daily flight. Probably putting pressure on EA at the time, they weren't into taking on incumbent hub carriers at the time, at least not in markets they were newcomers in.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-11-13 07:17:11 and read 16810 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 78):
Looks like DL is adding seasonal PIT-MCO Saturday only flights starting February 16th. Equipment is a 319.

Ehh?? I saw they were bringing back BDL-MCO, but they're doing seasonal Saturday-only service to MCO? Have they done this city pair before? I don't think they have. The only legacy airline to serve that market was US IIRC. Maybe TWA did this market, too, way back in the day...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-13 10:22:18 and read 16800 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 74):
I keep hoping DL will bring back PIT-SLC (as I recall it got whacked along with MIA, RDU, CLT, BHM, and CMH). If I recall correctly it bounced around between 738s, MD-90s (probably too much capacity), and CR9s (probably too long for it). To me, the perfect aircraft for Delta would be a daily 319, maybe seasonally in winter for ski traffic.
Quoting N670UW (Reply 76):
the problem for a market like PIT was the service was pre-merger, and MSP-PIT has largely shot down the need for SLC-PIT.

I'd like to see SLC return as well, but I agree with N670UW. Not gonna happen with MSP and even DTW added to the mix. OTOH, DL now has 717s which may be the perfect airplane for PIT-SLC.

I'd rather see SEA added though.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 78):
Looks like DL is adding seasonal PIT-MCO Saturday only flights starting February 16th. Equipment is a 319.

That's good news. DL also does a lot of weekly seasonal CUN schedules as well - I'm surprised they haven't done that from PIT.

Too bad BOS didn't stick around.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 80):
Have they done this city pair before? I don't think they have. The only legacy airline to serve that market was US IIRC. Maybe TWA did this market, too, way back in the day...

As USPIT10L explained, DL did in fact do PIT-MCO in the past, most recently with Comair (from the E gates no less). Eastern and United also served the route back in the day.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2012-11-13 19:54:42 and read 16798 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 81):
As USPIT10L explained, DL did in fact do PIT-MCO in the past, most recently with Comair (from the E gates no less). Eastern and United also served the route back in the day.

That is not accurate. They never operated to MCO out of Concouse E. These gates were USAirways Express only, and could never handle a jet aircraft, strictly Beech 1900 / Dash 8 / Doriner 328 / Jetstream 31.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-13 21:21:18 and read 16802 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 80):
The only legacy airline to serve that market was US IIRC.

Nope, Eastern served it quite heavily, long before US did.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 81):
DL also does a lot of weekly seasonal CUN schedules as well - I'm surprised they haven't done that from PIT.

F9 does that--DL ground handles it.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 81):
most recently with Comair (from the E gates no less). Eastern and United also served the route back in the day.

        

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-13 21:59:50 and read 16796 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 82):

That is not accurate. They never operated to MCO out of Concouse E. These gates were USAirways Express only, and could never handle a jet aircraft, strictly Beech 1900 / Dash 8 / Doriner 328 / Jetstream 31

That's simply not the case; Comair operated its MCO flights from the E gates for quite a while. Why that was the case I don't know. Perhaps the ACAA wanted all regional ops at the regional terminal. This was before the widespread use of RJs.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 83):
F9 does that--DL ground handles it.

Both Delta and Frontier serve CUN from IND, CVG, and MKE.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2012-11-14 10:03:47 and read 16794 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 79):
Yeah, the timings were terrible. IIRC, it got in from SLC at about 1600 and left at 1630, at the same time as a WN departure.

If DL were ever to bring it back, it should be like an 0600-0700 departure PIT-SLC with a 1700-ish return from Salt Lake. That way it hits the morning bank of connections to destinations throughout the West. Also gets the ski folks on the slopes nice and early.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: isp2
Posted 2012-11-14 10:40:46 and read 16816 times.

B6 is ending JFK-PIT 2/27/13

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-11-14 10:52:11 and read 16840 times.

Beat me to it.

I wish PIT supported B6 a bit more.

I can see the whole city being dropped.

3 daily PIT-BOS is jetblues last stand in this market

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2012-11-14 11:28:03 and read 16814 times.

Quoting isp2 (Reply 86):
B6 is ending JFK-PIT 2/27/13

Whats your source on this? Im booked on B6 to JFK in March.....

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pit
Posted 2012-11-14 13:34:30 and read 16823 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 88):

Whats your source on this? Im booked on B6 to JFK in March.....

Its true FEB 27 will be the last day...

Someone from customer support will be reaching out to you shortly..

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-14 16:23:54 and read 16836 times.

Well that's gonna hurt. Here is an old article on the affect JetBlue had after they launched PIT service with 4 JFK flights (and 2 to BOS):

"But despite a doubling of traffic from Pittsburgh to New York in that time .........

But Barger said JetBlue has helped lower air fares in the Pittsburgh market. Since June 30, 2006, average Pittsburgh fares have dropped to $84 for New York JFK flights from $221. Average fares to Boston have fallen to $97 from $178.
"
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib...siness/s_514572.html#axzz2CAtJKCEf

One year after launching PIT-JFK service, fares to NYC dropped by 2/3, and traffic doubled. We can expect the opposite to happen now as fares increase, and losing B6 will do the same that losing WN to PHL did.

Delta added 6x LGA service not too long ago. But at the same time they reduced JFK by 2x daily, and US Airways reduced LGA by 2x daily. With the loss of JetBlue, we will now be right back where we were in terms of frequency to NYC. Except JFK will be not served well, and no low cost competition.

Perhaps DL will add a frequency back to JFK, and I imagine the folks at LBE are on the phone with Spirit about possible LGA service.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: threeifbyair
Posted 2012-11-14 18:58:34 and read 16841 times.

Quoting isp2 (Reply 86):
B6 is ending JFK-PIT 2/27/13

Noooooo... terrible news for PIT. Many of my classmates will be pretty upset - quite a few are weekly commuters on that route.

Why end in February, though? Worst months of the year are behind them at that point.

I flew on the 2125 JFK departure last month. LF was 99/100. My ticket was $125 o/w, a friend bought his later for $185 o/w. That was a Friday, however. Wednesdays are problematic, I bet.

UA to EWR is insanely expensive. LGA is annoying from a public transit perspective.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2012-11-14 19:12:54 and read 16818 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 84):
That's simply not the case; Comair operated its MCO flights from the E gates for quite a while. Why that was the case I don't know. Perhaps the ACAA wanted all regional ops at the regional terminal. This was before the widespread use of RJs.

Can anyone else support me on this? No regional jet has ever operated out of Concourse E. These gates were reserved for US only. A/B/E and part of C were US, the remainder of the airport was for everyone else... I am 100% positive that Delta never operated the MCO or any flight out of E.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-14 22:31:53 and read 16814 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 92):

Can anyone else support me on this? No regional jet has ever operated out of Concourse E. These gates were reserved for US only. A/B/E and part of C were US, the remainder of the airport was for everyone else... I am 100% positive that Delta never operated the MCO or any flight out of E.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. I've observed Comair CRJ's operate from the E gates with my own eyeballs for the duration of their MCO service. Also, before US Airways RJ's were en vogue at PIT (PIT was the last among all hubs and focus cities to get any meaningful amount of US Airways RJs), occasionally there would be a regional jet diversion from Trans States or whomever, and they would park at the E gates as well.

[Edited 2012-11-14 23:12:48]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-11-15 12:44:28 and read 16805 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 90):
Perhaps DL will add a frequency back to JFK, and I imagine the folks at LBE are on the phone with Spirit about possible LGA service.

Both of those would be nice. I guess it's only a matter of time before B6 pulls out all together, but that could be just me... Still, if that happens, I'd like to see someone come in and bring competition on PIT-BOS. There's more than enough demand to warant a few daily CRJs on that route IMO. DL was foolish to serve that with 3 CR2s a day. A mix of E70/75 equipment as well as an A319 or two would have been nice, much like what they have to LGA. Don't they have an occasional A319 to LGA?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-11-20 16:19:17 and read 16776 times.

Spotter alert....FedEx 772 enroute from MEM eta 2028, flt 980.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-11-20 16:23:22 and read 16767 times.

Disregard. Loooking at too many screens for too long. It's a 727 not 777.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2012-11-20 17:34:17 and read 16754 times.

I get the feeling I'm going to be a bit surprised Friday. The last time I was at PIT was the night the name Allegheny disappeared.

I have fond memories of the 707s, DC-8s, CV-880s and on and on. Oh well, I will see a nice empty terminal that I've never seen.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2012-11-20 21:19:48 and read 16671 times.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 95):
Don't they have an occasional A319 to LGA?

Yes I just got off one. The last out of LGA and the first AM flights are A319 for rest of Nov, and then switching to MD88 in Dec for couple weeks, then back to CRJ7 right before x-mas. I can't wait for the mad dog, haven't been on one since 93, which coincidentally was my first domestic DL experience.
I have to say DL has much better product then US. Not a single delay, cancellation (I don't count Sandy) in 4 months. Whereas with US, I have Gold status with Starwood hotels just because of cancelled flights. It's also pretty interesting that once the slot swap happen at LGA, all the sudden the conga line for departure or the hurry up and wait for take off at PIT, just disappeared. With 7P departure, I was paying for my parking at 8:41P. I was home at 9:30P and that included stop at big bird for milk and beer. Monday we had 7:19A departure from PIT and I was in a cab heading to midtown at 8:30A.
Forgot to add. If Spirit adds LGA flights out of LBE, I'm all game but they have to do full week and at the right time, business/commuting time, none of this FLL fly in for extended weekend stuff.

[Edited 2012-11-20 21:23:12]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2012-11-21 13:26:12 and read 16546 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 92):
Can anyone else support me on this? No regional jet has ever operated out of Concourse E

I worked as a ramper for Delta at PIT and I do remember the older guys talking about working over at the E gates for a comair flight. I also remember seeing US CRJ-200's and E145's over there towards the end of the E Gate era. I do also remember the jetstreams, saabs, dornier's, dash's, and 1900's as well.

DELTA CONNECTION, COMAIR ANNOUNCES JET SERVICE FROM PITTSBURGH TO ORLANDO AND SOUTH FLORIDA

1995
"CINCINNATI, June 7 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Connection, COMAIR, Inc., (Nasdaq-NNM: COMR COMR Commissioner
CoMR Cloak of Magic Resistance (NetHack)
COMR Commercially Owned, Military Registered ), announced that on June 1, the Company initiated two roundtrip jet flights between Orlando and Pittsburgh with continuing service to Ft. Lauderdale. In addition, COMAIR offers convenient connections in Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale to cities throughout Florida including the Florida Keys Florida Keys, chain of coral and limestone islands and reefs, c.150 mi (240 km) long, extending from Virginia Key, S of Miami Beach, to Key West, and forming the southern extremity of Florida. .

Now Pittsburgh travellers have a choice for their travel plans to Florida. With COMAIR's 50-passenger Canadair Jet, featuring "No Middle Seats" and convenient easy-on, easy off boarding with plane-side "pink tag" baggage check, COMAIR offers a more pleasurable way to Florida for business or leisure.

All flights between Pittsburgh and Orlando are operated with COMAIR's new Canadair Jet. The Canadair Jet, manufactured by the Canadair Group of Bombardier, Inc. of Canada, can cruise at 530 mph and up to 41,000 feet. The jetliner is promoted as the quietest commercial jet in the world. This good neighbor jet aircraft is powered by two General Electric CF 34-3A1 turbofan engines. COMAIR operates the largest fleet of Canadair Jets in the world with 22 of the aircraft currently in service."

atct

[Edited 2012-11-21 13:28:55]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-22 00:34:06 and read 16411 times.

The P-G finally picked up on the loss of JetBlue's PIT-JFK route:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...om-pittsburgh-to-big-apple-663232/

"JoAnn Jenny, airport spokeswoman, said one of the problems with the service was that JetBlue, because of slot restrictions at JFK, was never able to sequence the flights in a way that made it easy for business travelers to fly to New York and return to Pittsburgh the same day.

The slot restrictions, she said, made it difficult for JetBlue to be as flexible as it wanted and needed to be.
"

This woman just needs to stop speaking. 4x daily (as was the case when B6 entered the market) is more than enough for business travel. Furthermore, JFK is not slot controlled most of the day.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-22 07:02:56 and read 16347 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 100):
This woman just needs to stop speaking. 4x daily (as was the case when B6 entered the market) is more than enough for business travel. Furthermore, JFK is not slot controlled most of the day.

Remember, anything to make the airline, not the airport look like the culprit.  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tooluther
Posted 2012-11-22 10:21:02 and read 16393 times.

I think we can place a big chunk of blame here on the flying public. Once all the new DL capacity came into play, this was just a matter of time IMO.

The airport authority and the Allegheny Conference's air service efforts have been very public over the past two years that this (and the CDG flights) are in "use it or lose it" situations...and we didn't use it; capitalism at its finest.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-11-22 11:21:59 and read 16386 times.

PIT-JFK route ending:

I think the flight time thing is a excuse. They have been performing horribly since they started, they had 4 flights and then 2 excuses

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-11-22 13:15:36 and read 16348 times.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 103):
I think the flight time thing is a excuse. They have been performing horribly since they started, they had 4 flights and then 2 excuses

Think what you want but in my case at least that is exactly the reason I don't fly B6. I've gone out of my way repeatedly to try to fly B6 and they never have had a schedule that would fit. It's not just JFK either, I ran into the same situation on trying to find connections to Florida and the West Coast. I hate to see any PIT service dropped by anyone but in the case of B6 they aren't providing what the market seeks here.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-22 14:22:09 and read 16323 times.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 102):
I think we can place a big chunk of blame here on the flying public. Once all the new DL capacity came into play, this was just a matter of time IMO.

The airport authority and the Allegheny Conference's air service efforts have been very public over the past two years that this (and the CDG flights) are in "use it or lose it" situations...and we didn't use it; capitalism at its finest

  

Although the net addition to NYC wasn't that much extra capacity (only two RJs - remember DL dropped 2 JFK frequencies and US 2 at LGA), you are exactly correct. Same with Southwest's PHL flights. Use it or lose it. United's LAX service is down to 4x weekly. That's weak.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2012-11-22 20:56:01 and read 16247 times.

It is not the airport nor the flying public, it is the airline - JetBlue.
I commute to NYC for work every week, fly out Sun, come back Thur. Every week I go thru the same routine of checking DL, US, CO and jetBlue.
The first full week in Jan that I am about to book, has the following fares:
$287, $206, $187, $148
$287 is obviously on high end.
3 out of the 4 have late Sun departure (6:30P or later)
$287 is out
3 out of 4 have late return (6:30P or later)
$287 is out.
jetBlue is the $287
3 out of 3 requirements do not meet my needs and they never had. Majority of the time, I stopped at the fare level as they were consistently higher, even worse when Delta came in.
So don't blame the flying public or the PIT airport for this one. NYC is business flying, this is where the money is made and jetBlue did not support it.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-11-23 07:52:27 and read 16155 times.

Quoting kubus (Reply 106):
jetBlue did not support it.

That's not their primary business anyway. DL and UA more than carry the day with biz traffic to NYC, as does US from here. B6 is a leisure airline. But again, like you said, if you can't even connect to Florida on them, they have no chance here. IINM, the majority of their profits are in the Caribbean anyway. Same problem, you don't connect to the Caribbean you have no traffic potential. It appears the only people using B6 here are low-yielding interline customers connecting to int'l flights at JFK; no wonder AA only has one JFK flight a day. I'm not sorry to see it go, trust me. Just do yourselves a favor, whoever posts these PG stories to the web, don't read them first; you'll get a migraine.  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-24 00:40:11 and read 16006 times.

Quoting kubus (Reply 106):
I stopped at the fare level as they were consistently higher, even worse when Delta came in.
So don't blame the flying public or the PIT airport for this one. NYC is business flying, this is where the money is made and jetBlue did not support it.

Its been well documented already that it is JetBlue which has caused a 20%-50% (depending on the source) reduction in PIT-NYC fares.

The latest reminder, just a couple hours old:
"Blue skies: JetBlue was good for fares locally"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...was-good-for-fares-locally-663445/

So when PIT-NYC fares go north of $287, which they will, I guess you will stop flying the route?

Edit - So I just checked the fares on both Delta and US Airways on the PIT-LGA route for the first Sunday in March - a week after B6 leaves the market. Already over $300 one way. In the case of US a 500% increase over their fares 1 week prior.

Funny how that works.

[Edited 2012-11-24 01:18:19]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2012-11-25 19:18:14 and read 15758 times.

DL especially has a tendency to list higher fares 3-4 months out. Week before and after Thanksgiving was around $800 rt, but it dropped to normal level a month before.
With that said, this is totally idiotic if the pricing stays, as it will drive me out of business. I do consulting and I'll not be able to pass or absorbs the cost.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pit
Posted 2012-11-26 15:42:53 and read 15584 times.

FYI...

B6 BOS-PIT going 4 daily starting in May...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-11-27 03:40:22 and read 15481 times.

"Air fares to New York take off as JetBlue plans to exit route"

"For example, American Airlines will charge $210 for its one nonstop flight to John F. Kennedy International Airport on March 11, returning to Pittsburgh the next day. American fares generally will stay at that level or go higher through March and into April, although on certain days they will be lower.

But that's peanuts compared to what it will cost to fly to New York on either Delta or US Airways. Delta is charging $619.60 for a trip to and from JFK or LaGuardia Airport on March 11, returning the next day, while US Airways is asking $620 for a flight into and out of LaGuardia
"
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12332/1279795-28.stm

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-02 18:23:01 and read 15126 times.

UPS will again be operating the MD-11 at PIT with early morning (but daylight) departures this peak.

FedEx will have 727s as well, up to 3 a day. FedEx schedules here:
http://www2.alpa.org/fdx/jumpseat/



Found this group of old and new pics from PIT recently:
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/kpit/Interesting

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-05 11:40:10 and read 14881 times.

"EQT, Consol bid on Marcellus drilling near Allegheny County airports"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-allegheny-county-airports-664984/

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...million-airport-bids#axzz2ECxGwsPw

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylva...drill-at-pittsburgh-area-airports/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-12-05 14:18:21 and read 14846 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 113):

AAAhhh, beat me to it. I bet you're happy to hear that.  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-05 15:22:01 and read 14822 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 114):
I bet you're happy to hear that.

Lets not put the cart before the horse...

"But EQT sees this as a jumping off point for negotiations.

The restrictions in the bid documents that kept away some of the other players in the Marcellus don't sit well with EQT either, Robertson said.

“That’s probably why we did not put in the downpayment,” she said. “There are a lot of restrictions in there and things that didn’t pass the smell test for us.”
"
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg.../eqt-on-its-airport-bid-lease.html

Then there is the issue of putting half the revenue in an escrow account with intent for use on non airport use - against current federal policy, which Fitzgerald hopes to get changed.


I won't be happy until drilling rigs are poking holes in the ground.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pit
Posted 2012-12-14 08:54:29 and read 14498 times.

http://pitairport.com/JetBlue_Airway..._Pittsburgh-Boston_Non-Stop_Flight

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-14 10:28:56 and read 14447 times.

Quoting pit (Reply 116):

Now that they are adding PHL, it would be nice to see them take a stab at PIT-PHL. Wishful thinking.


Other news:

"Airport authority accepts lower of 2 bids for Marcellus drilling"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ids-for-marcellus-drilling-666364/

"Officials push for new terminal at Arnold Palmer Regional Airport"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ids-for-marcellus-drilling-666364/

"Spirit Airlines seasonal service to take off sooner than had been expected"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...irport-service-beach#axzz2F3Fe4I00


Aruba (AUA) has PIT near its top of desired new destinations. PIT-AUA O&D is on par with that of DTW, and higher than BWI (which has service), YUL, DFW, and GRU. It would be nice to see Frontier take a stab at this.

http://www.therouteshop.com/aruba-airport/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-12-14 10:35:16 and read 14432 times.

Quoting kubus (Reply 106):
NYC is business flying, this is where the money is made and jetBlue did not support it.

They're not supposed to, that's not their business model. The ACAA should've known that before intiating discussions with them.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 117):
Now that they are adding PHL, it would be nice to see them take a stab at PIT-PHL. Wishful thinking.

Don't count on it. I see B6 staying here around 18 more months, tops. Their business model is focused on low-yielding international/interline connections. Very few people fly B6 to BOS or JFK from here and end their journies there.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-14 10:54:13 and read 14435 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 118):

Don't count on it. I see B6 staying here around 18 more months, tops. Their business model is focused on low-yielding international/interline connections. Very few people fly B6 to BOS or JFK from here and end their journies there.

I don't see them starting PIT-PHL either, hence the "wishful thinking". As far as them staying no more than 18 months.. I don't see why that would be. They have steadily grown PIT-BOS to be a successful market (and certainly outlasted DL as well). If its int'l connections that make JetBlue successful, so be it. Bottom line, it is a successful well run airline.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-12-14 16:49:17 and read 14347 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 119):
If its int'l connections that make JetBlue successful, so be it. Bottom line, it is a successful well run airline.

No question, jetBlue is definitely a well-run airline. I just don't think they'll be in PIT too much longer. Our sky-high landing fees drive LCCs away in droves. It's just very sad to see our airport run with little thought to long-term growth. Hopefully, the fares will go up to the point where we (the legacies) can have sustained profitability over the long-haul. That's kinda the point of all these mergers.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-14 17:46:11 and read 14318 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 120):
Our sky-high landing fees drive LCCs away in droves. It's just very sad to see our airport run with little thought to long-term growth. Hopefully, the fares will go up to the point where we (the legacies) can have sustained profitability over the long-haul. That's kinda the point of all these mergers.

You know I agree 100% on the fees and how the air service development of PIT has been an afterthought in Allegheny Co politics.

But I don't want to see fares go up anymore. Fares at PIT are now barely below the national average - even after we have been dehubbed. When a fortress hub gets dehubbed, the silver lining is the local market gets stimulated via lower fares. That initially started to happen here, but now O&D and fares are trending back to the hub days. Yes, I'd like to see healthy service from legacies, but I'd also like to see healthy low cost service as well. It shouldn't be one or the other. We certainly don't need to have legacies dominate service to our largest markets resulting in the price gouging we now see to PHL and are about to see to NYC.





A bit more on Consol Energy winning the bid for gas and oil drilling:

"The other bidder, EQT, is surprised, to put it mildly.

“There was no heads up, no discussion ahead of time for anything,” said EQT spokeswoman Linda Robertson. “There wasn’t a willingness to work with us on a win-win deal.”

EQT bid $4,750 per acre, while Consol offered $2,250 per acre and submitted a $2 million deposit for 10 percent of the total amount.

“(EQT’s bid) would have resulted in a bigger windfall for the county and the taxpayers,” Robertson said. “They left $20 million on the table, and we don’t know what their true reasoning was.”

Airport officials did not explain their decision today.
"

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...rport-picks-consol-leaves-eqt.html

I hope Allegheny County didn't F this up more than they already have.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-12-14 17:53:38 and read 14310 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 121):
That initially started to happen here, but now O&D and fares are trending back to the hub days. Yes, I'd like to see healthy service from legacies, but I'd also like to see healthy low cost service as well. It shouldn't be one or the other. We certainly don't need to have legacies dominate service to our largest markets resulting in the price gouging we now see to PHL and are about to see to NYC.

I'm afraid that's what drives the market in those cities. The business traveler demands frequency above all else. On the bright side, I can forsee UA flying A320/A319s to IAH once the crossfleeting finishes and 737-700/800/900s on PITORD, UA could really use the capacity to ORD from here. It would help tremendously in creating additional demand/rerouting possibilities.

I'm not sure we'll have healty LCC competition, WN will likely be the only LCC here.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-15 22:40:00 and read 14122 times.

"OK of bid for airport drilling rights questioned"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...drilling-rights-questioned-666471/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-12-16 08:10:24 and read 14097 times.

UA already uses the 319 and 320 on pit-iah . They run everything in the fleet between the 735 and the 757 on it.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-12-16 08:32:37 and read 14081 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 117):
Aruba (AUA) has PIT near its top of desired new destinations. PIT-AUA O&D is on par with that of DTW, and higher than BWI (which has service), YUL, DFW, and GRU. It would be nice to see Frontier take a stab at this.

I've already known that. A while back, there was a thread about routes one would like to see served from their respective airports. One of the markets on that thread was Aruba. For kicks I looked it up and was rather shocked to see PIT near the top of the list of desired unserved destinations...

I guess if anything F9 would be the ones to pick this p2p route up. It would be nice if it happened; this would be another international destination for PIT travelers...

It's not that high up on the list for the PIT folks, however. SAN, SEA among others top their list...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-12-16 12:43:14 and read 14029 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 125):

I believe PIT is or at least was on the very top of Cancun's list of desired daily flights.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-16 13:19:28 and read 14129 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 126):

I believe PIT is or at least was on the very top of Cancun's list of desired daily flights.

That's correct (although I'm not sure about the "daily" part), even though PIT already has scheduled service to CUN.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-21 11:22:04 and read 13820 times.

The Southern Beltway project will indeed move forward, providing PIT with another link to I-79, Southpointe (where the shale energy industry is located), and aid in the development of land surrounding the airport.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-plan-for-southern-beltway-667327/

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...t-officials-turnpike#axzz2FJydlLrO

[Edited 2012-12-21 11:32:00]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2012-12-21 12:39:13 and read 13802 times.

I don't believe I noticed it in the PG article, but the Tribune Review incorrectly identified the one road as US 50 that would be impacted -- It's PA 50, actually. US 50 runs through the Baltimore-Washington area, through Virginia and into West Virginia, staying south of Pennsylvania altogether pretty much.

Still, I guess it's good overall for the region. It's about time this road gets built. They spent all that time and money acquiring R.O.W, condemning properties, etc...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2012-12-27 06:49:42 and read 13469 times.

An American Airlines flight got stuck while taxiing at PIT yesterday. Here is a link to the story in the PG: http://1iny.com/88976/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-12-27 08:01:19 and read 13407 times.

It was a mess out there yesterday and we didn't even get that much snow.  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: boeingkid
Posted 2012-12-27 08:44:44 and read 13386 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 130):

This happened because the ACAA does not have the money to plow the ramps, it is contracted. I believe that the policy is greater than 3 inches before they even think of plowing. I never understood their policy plow the 2 runways you do attempt to keep open and a few taxiways but forget about the ramp. Leave it up to the airlines and the hard working ramp guys to plow a path to their gate with plows on tugs and pickup trucks. Unreal and bad management. Maybe this will wake up ACAA to treat the ramps as they do the taxiways.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-12-27 11:19:10 and read 13303 times.

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 132):
This happened because the ACAA does not have the money to plow the ramps, it is contracted.

So that is why I saw a bunch of Menichino Paving trucks driving around last night.... Yea it was about 5 inches out there on the ramp taxiways. Not alot IMO but apparently enough to make a significant impact.

[Edited 2012-12-27 11:20:21]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2012-12-27 13:47:19 and read 13247 times.

Blaming pilots:

"Our priority when it comes to snow removal is keeping the runways clear and open, then the taxiways. Ramp areas are secondary,” Jenny said, adding a path had been cleared on the ramp to allow planes to get to gates. “The pilot made a wide turn and hit a pile of snow."
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...w-airport-passengers#axzz2GI6j6OOq


No awards for snow removal this season for the ACAA.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: boeingkid
Posted 2012-12-27 13:58:25 and read 13219 times.

Nope no awards this year

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-12-27 20:54:43 and read 13154 times.

Sorry, apparently my eyes are going quicker than I thought, especially at night. It it is Facchiano Construction doing the removal.

Yea I wouldn't send any awards. Quite unnerving when you are pushing and the plane bounces pretty significantly at the drainage ditch. Please don't break shear pin!  Wow!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2012-12-27 21:01:49 and read 13160 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 134):
Blaming pilots:

From Article:
“He [Captain] is in charge of the plane,” she said. “They could‘ve had passengers off sooner, but they decided to wait.”


Where did they get stuck at? I saw on the side of airside facing landside (C/D Gates) that the removal process involved piling up snow near the entrance to the bagrooms and along the outer edge were access to E gates used to be.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-12-27 21:18:05 and read 13157 times.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 120):

I agree it's sad though but the fees is exactly what hurts B6 and I say there gone by the then of 2013 there going to fail with the 4X BOS

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2012-12-27 21:24:31 and read 13162 times.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 137):
Where did they get stuck at? I saw on the side of airside facing landside (C/D Gates) that the removal process involved piling up snow near the entrance to the bagrooms and along the outer edge were access to E gates used to be.

From what I heard, it was off 10L, AA had to get buses so people could get off the plane.

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 135):
Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 136):

Yep, epic fail, as always, courtesy of the ACAA. Sorry, no excuse. At least now I work at the ticket counter, so I don't have to run bags through this crap! LOL

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2013-01-03 07:28:22 and read 12787 times.

So much for JetBlue effect, DL prices on PIT - LGA are now down to $120 for the first week (which is cheaper then I paid for this and next week flights). US is still $600.
DL had sold 4 seats on the flights I was looking at in a month. Since the price change yesterday, they sold 7.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-03 23:36:45 and read 12603 times.

Quoting kubus (Reply 140):
So much for JetBlue effect, DL prices on PIT - LGA are now down to $120 for the first week (which is cheaper then I paid for this and next week flights). US is still $600.
DL had sold 4 seats on the flights I was looking at in a month. Since the price change yesterday, they sold 7

What dates are these? I just plugged in about 20 random itineraries for Mar and Apr. The vast majority are still at least $600 r/t. I did find a Tuesday departure with $220 r/t

On another note, it looks like the A-319 is sticking around for most days.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-01-04 08:45:48 and read 12533 times.

Thought of the day: With all of the major film productions that are being done here, one would think that we could at least support one daily flight to Los Angeles, whereas now the United flight only runs less than daily. Compare this to Nashville, a much smaller metro area that has service on both Southwest and American, with Delta announcing that they'll add their own nonstop.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kubus
Posted 2013-01-07 18:36:21 and read 12287 times.

PITrules 3/4 to 3/7, last flights on both days. Its back to $600. Fluke I guess, but it was there for the taking.
One way around this is to buy on us with flex return and use sat night stay for lga-pit-lga. Sort of abusing the system but then again 300% increase in fare abuses my bottom line.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-07 22:19:47 and read 12231 times.

Quoting kubus (Reply 143):
One way around this is to buy on us with flex return and use sat night stay for lga-pit-lga. Sort of abusing the system but then again 300% increase in fare abuses my bottom line.

I don't think that's abusing at all; whatever you can make happen. On the topic of B6, if JetBlue's round trip schedule was not suitable another option for folks was to buy one way tickets on JetBlue when feasible, and one way on one of the others. At least that way B6 would have been partly supported.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 142):
Thought of the day: With all of the major film productions that are being done here, one would think that we could at least support one daily flight to Los Angeles, whereas now the United flight only runs less than daily. Compare this to Nashville, a much smaller metro area that has service on both Southwest and American, with Delta announcing that they'll add their own nonstop.

PIT is bigger than BNA in terms of metro population and business, but I don't think that translates into larger local demand to LAX. As impressive as Pittsburgh's movie production has become (I think Pittsburgh had more movies filmed here lately than anywhere outside LA and NYC), it doesn't compare to Nashville's roll as Music City and it's connection to Hollywood.

Having said that, 4x weekly to SoCal is indeed pathetic and can be improved upon. Part of the issue is that the airline flying PIT-LAX nonstop also has 3 hubs (5 if you include SFO and IAD) to route traffic over, so there isn't incentive to offer more nonstops - until the route gets some competition.

Increased service at PIT will continue to depend on getting the airports costs down, and the continued growth of the local economy lead by the energy sector. Great article today on that here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...rket-as-pittsburgh-rents-jump.html

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-01-11 11:29:50 and read 11962 times.

PIT one of the finalists to get the KC-46:

Air National Guard unit in Moon on list of candidates for new tanker plane

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...n_id=288381481237582#axzz2HhG4Vj4j



Some news at LBE:

Thunderbirds will fly in Westmoreland air show

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...irport-authority-jet#axzz2HPUo19Sn

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-01-11 17:51:00 and read 11894 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 144):
PIT is bigger than BNA in terms of metro population and business, but I don't think that translates into larger local demand to LAX. As impressive as Pittsburgh's movie production has become (I think Pittsburgh had more movies filmed here lately than anywhere outside LA and NYC), it doesn't compare to Nashville's roll as Music City and it's connection to Hollywood.

Having said that, 4x weekly to SoCal is indeed pathetic and can be improved upon. Part of the issue is that the airline flying PIT-LAX nonstop also has 3 hubs (5 if you include SFO and IAD) to route traffic over, so there isn't incentive to offer more nonstops - until the route gets some competition.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the data: PIT-LA Metro has 494 daily passengers, BNA-LA is 698. So we're 70% of the size and BNA is significantly closer to California. That said, we have almost the same exact traffic level as RDU (478), and they'll have nonstops on both AA and DL come April. So I'll agree that it's a combo of UA cannibalizing it's own traffic and PIT's high fees. On the LAX route, I've long thought that Delta or American would be a better fit. Traffic between here and SoCal should continue to increase in the future with the coming 31st Street Studios project in the Strip District driving more productions here.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-11 18:39:49 and read 11867 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 146):
On the LAX route, I've long thought that Delta or American would be a better fit. Traffic between here and SoCal should continue to increase in the future with the coming 31st Street Studios project in the Strip District driving more productions here.

The one thing I do like about having UAL doing the LAX service is perfect timing and connection to their SYD/MEL flights; last time I did this the Australia flight was one gate over.

Considering how they've expanded at LAX, I would not be surprised to see AA add PIT-LAX, especially if the local movie production continues at the current pace as you've mentioned.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-01-11 18:51:39 and read 11847 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 147):
The one thing I do like about having UAL doing the LAX service is perfect timing and connection to their SYD/MEL flights; last time I did this the Australia flight was one gate over.

DL could do that too with DL16/17, and AA codeshares heavily with Qantas which does both Melbourne and Sydney from LAX (though PIT-DFW-SYD already exists).

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-11 21:45:10 and read 11813 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 148):
DL could do that too with DL16/17, and AA codeshares heavily with Qantas which does both Melbourne and Sydney from LAX (though PIT-DFW-SYD already exists).

Absolutely; however since UAL already offers an evening departure to LAX I would think that a new entry in the market would offer an early morning departure, which nixes those connections. Not that this industry is logical  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-01-12 17:48:18 and read 11662 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 149):
Absolutely; however since UAL already offers an evening departure to LAX I would think that a new entry in the market would offer an early morning departure, which nixes those connections. Not that this industry is logical

You're probably right. That said an 0600-0800 PIT-LAX would be great for local traffic out of Pittsburgh. I think there would also be demand for a West Coast redeye, something we currently lack (though I know US has from time to time done a PHX-PIT redeye). The San Francisco flight has an early morning departure and seems to do better than the Los Angeles service does, despite being a smaller local market.

As an oddball idea, PIT-LAX could also be done by Virgin America, as they have a focus city there. As an even more off the wall idea, maybe they could use PIT as a stop en route to DCA (from LAX) and LGA (from SFO and/or LGA). Not likely, but at least a thought.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2013-01-12 21:13:24 and read 11582 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 150):
The San Francisco flight has an early morning departure and seems to do better than the Los Angeles service does, despite being a smaller local market.

I don't work mornings anymore, but the LAX flight does carry a lot, and I mean a LOT of O&D traffic. Seems like PITSFO is more connecting than local, traffic-wise. Don't forget the PITSFO flights time perfectly with the Asia bank around 12n SFO-time.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-01-12 23:24:53 and read 11657 times.

I remember flying USAir 733LR and 752's PIT-LAX...

Anywho in regards to UA's operation. As stated above, there are easy connection opprtunities at CLE, DEN, IAH, ORD, SFO, and to a lesser extent, IAD and EWR. Pretty hard to support a stand alone route of this size that overflies or passes close to 5 of your hubs. Im not saying I dont think they couldnt support daily, just saying what the bean counters are probably thinking. I would love to see 2x PIT-LAX (and a pipe dream, PIT-SEA) flights.

atct

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-17 13:45:59 and read 11376 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 150):
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 151):
Quoting atct (Reply 152):

I just realized PIT-SFO is also back to 4x weekly for the winter. That's equally pathetic. Whereas I can see AA or DL start PIT-LAX, I just don't see anyone else interested in PIT-SFO other than United. SFO based Virgin America has a long way to go before they consider PIT.


Other news:

"Fitzgerald to propose legislation for gas drilling on airport land"
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...rt-county-fitzgerald#axzz2IGs2g9vE

"Fitzgerald says Consol bonus payment for shale drilling on airport land could double"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-airport-land-could-double-670841/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-01-18 08:01:23 and read 11229 times.

PITrules, I'm a little surprised at you. You're dropping the ball. Did you see this?

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...s-for-nonstop-destinations-670944/

ACAA is pushing incentives to airlines if they launch non stops to a slew of destinations, including Nashville, San Diego, Seattle, Dallas Love Field (DFW is already adequately served IMO, so why that?), Jacksonville, New Orleans, and even Calgary! London was even mentioned, but as the article stated, only 50-some pax depart each way...

I just don't see it happening. Maybe they could pitch to an airline that runs an A319 on a transcon. I think that would be the only airliner that an airline could run profitably with only 110 or so pax each way to SAN or SEA. AS flies 738s, which seat roughly 150 or so pax...

I do see demand for these destinations picking up that might warrant non-stops at some point, but the numbers are not there yet.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: N670UW
Posted 2013-01-18 08:51:02 and read 11208 times.

Only SEA, BNA, MCI and maybe MSY are reasonable. DAL, YYC and JAX are just out of left field. SLC will only happen if Delta is interested and there is no sign they are.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-01-18 09:37:13 and read 11178 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 154):
Dallas Love Field (DFW is already adequately served IMO, so why that?

It's kind of pointless to offer an airline an incentive to fly nonstop between PIT & DAL when those flights wouldn't even be possible until October of next year because of the Wright Amendment.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-01-18 11:14:05 and read 11145 times.

I think the whole idea is awful. Like the article mentioned about London, I think that should be a number one priority. Even better would be LH to FRA or MUC with the large germany company presence in the PIT region. Most of these destinations make no sense.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-18 11:24:32 and read 11139 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 154):
PITrules, I'm a little surprised at you. You're dropping the ball. Did you see this?

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...0944/

Yeah I don't know how I missed this one!

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 154):

ACAA is pushing incentives to airlines if they launch non stops to a slew of destinations, including Nashville, San Diego, Seattle, Dallas Love Field (DFW is already adequately served IMO, so why that?), Jacksonville, New Orleans, and even Calgary! London was even mentioned, but as the article stated, only 50-some pax depart each way...
Quoting N670UW (Reply 155):
DAL, YYC and JAX are just out of left field.

The only one I see in the intermediate future are DAL (after the Wright restrictions are lifted), BNA, and London, which isn't even targeted.

DAL is a no brainer considering WN's connectivity and the natural gas industry, which is also huge in North Texas. Same logic as WN's new PIT-HOU service.

BNA is a short flight which also offers good connectivity on WN.

LHR - I'm not sure where Mr. Penrod gets 54 pax a day to London from, its more like 79 according to this site, which used DOT data:
http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

79 is down substantially from when PIT had nonstop service to London (as is FRA), while Paris, now with nonstop service, is up substantially. See the pattern? Having said that, 79 to London is still far greater than the current number to Paris, which as we know has been heavily promoted. So the BS detector goes off when Mr Penrod states:

"London, despite its popularity with online voters, did not make the cut because only 54 people a day fly to that destination from Pittsburgh. That's not nearly enough to fill up a 250-seat jet needed to make the trip, he said."

The reason they are downplaying London is simple - they don't want to cannibalize the Paris flight. I don't blame them. But I can easily see AA/BA look at 757 service. Connections would take care of the rest of the plane beyond the O&D numbers.

YYC and OKC at first glance are out of left field. However, as someone who follows the Pittsburgh business community, the amount of business transactions between Calgary and Pgh energy companies over the past couple years is quite impressive (same with OKC). Not enough O&D for air service, but what demand there is would be very high yielding. YYC may be a bit in left field, but not beyond the realm of possibility if offered by WestJet considering their connections. I'd think that YYC will happen before YUL. I wouldn't have said that 3 years ago.

SEA and SLC possibly on AS and DL respectively, again because of connection opportunities.

The rest of that list... forget it.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-01-18 12:54:34 and read 11101 times.

As for ideas not mentioned in the article:

SJU:With B6's growth out of Puerto Rico, I wonder if there might be a market for weekend service here.
YUL: I've mentioned it in a past thread. There are not insignificant corporate ties like Bombardier and Alcoa, and Air Canada does operate a modest size hub at Trudeau.
LGB/OAK: If B6 wanted to do the PIT-Los Angeles market, it's a possibility. Likewise the same for Southwest Airlines and the Bay Area. As a side thought, WN is picking up three more gates at LAX so that could put us in play, though they are not a big fan of transcons.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-01-18 14:55:15 and read 11075 times.

PIT-SEA, and to a lesser extent SAN, might be doable from Alaska. From what I hear, their new (past 2 or 3 years) STL service is doing awesome. They do fly -700's just not many of them.

ATCT

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-18 16:38:26 and read 11052 times.

A more comprehensive article on the gas drilling at PIT and AGC:


http://www.equities.com/news/headlin...13-01-17&val=940692&cat=industrial

"Because of federal airport rules, that money probably will have to go to lower gate fees and to build roads and infrastructure to help industrial and office redevelopment on county-owned airport land, Fitzgerald and Davin said."

Hopefully that is to mean that the Co Exec has finally given up on efforts to change FAA policy and redirect this revenue elsewhere, something he and his predecessor insisted on which delayed this effort by years.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-24 04:05:35 and read 10682 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 161):
Hopefully that is to mean that the Co Exec has finally given up on efforts to change FAA policy and redirect this revenue elsewhere, something he and his predecessor insisted on which delayed this effort by years.

Or not. Can't get at the FAA, so they look to divert state revenue designated for the airport. I should have seen this coming.

"Fitzgerald said on Wednesday that he asked state leaders to consider taking money designated for paying down debt at the airport and redirecting it to the county.

Mustio and other local legislators said they are willing to talk about redirecting the casino money. Some have questions about where the county would spend the money.
"

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/3...airport-money-county#axzz2IsBBUEBq



Nice article about increased flight training at LBE. More flight training = more operations, and more (IFR) operations increases the airport's ability to attract federal grants for improvements.
http://triblive.com/neighborhoods/yo...-westmoreland-pilots#axzz2IlazX2dD

[Edited 2013-01-24 04:22:40]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-01-31 03:42:41 and read 10219 times.

"People Express says Pittsburgh is now in running for airline's headquarters"
http://www.dailypress.com/news/newpo...ress-pitt-20130130,0,6434221.story

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-01-31 12:21:37 and read 10105 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 163):

"People Express says Pittsburgh is now in running for airline's headquarters"
http://www.dailypress.com/news/newpo...ress-pitt-20130130,0,6434221.story

If PIT gets the HQ then that will be a really good for the airport and the surrounding community.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-01-31 13:30:33 and read 10069 times.

Quoting dabpit (Reply 164):
If PIT gets the HQ then that will be a really good for the airport and the surrounding community.

It would be, but I'm not holding my breath. PE still looks like they have a business model that is risky, and even if they do have success, PA is not known for being very business friendly, as was indicated in the article (right-to-work vs. unions and high corporate taxes).

Altho, having the main hub at PIT versus Newport News I think makes more sense -- it's a larger metro area and the overal surrounding area within a 90-minute drive is rather populous.

I hope I'm wrong about PE tho. I saw in a much earlier press release that they were considering a 2-class layout, which I'm guessing was a rumor. If that were the case, AND if they fly to more main markets (ORD or MDW as opposed to, say, Gary for Chicago), then I could see this becomming successful. If they try to adopt the Skybus model, they are surely doomed...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: FreshSide3
Posted 2013-01-31 14:02:40 and read 10044 times.

You also have the lack of air service of any kind from Youngstown OH. Not that it's a big market, but for those who are traveling long distances, for practical purposes, turn this into a CLE vs. PIT competition.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2013-01-31 17:51:03 and read 9985 times.

KDKA is now even reporting about PE looking at PIT. But like Steeler83 said, im not holding my breath either. I sure hope it gets off though for PIT sake... It sure would be nice to have an airline call PIT a hub again...

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/...tional-for-corporate-headquarters/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-01-31 21:26:31 and read 9913 times.

I had a feeling a few nights ago that PE would consider PIT, as their Facebook page has "Likes" for Primanti's.... Honestly... Unless you visit or have been here, you can't just say you "Like" a Primanti's Sandwich.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-01-31 21:39:19 and read 9915 times.

This thougt kind of made me laugh... Trivia Question for everyone here @ PIT.
- What was the last startup airline to be based/headquartered at PIT?

**************Answer******************
JetTrain
****************************************

What is even funnier is that JetTrain routes were PIT-MCO and PIT-EWR. The exact same routes that PE proposes to fly, although, they also make mention of Providence. Now, common sense says if it didn't work in the past with the same concept, why would it work now?

I am a BIG fan of LBE, and love Spirit Airlines. I am actually flying on LBE-MYR in about two weeks here again. Anyways, i feel that if PE obtains their license once purchasing an existing carrier, PIT will make a very lucrative offer to them, and it will be an all out war between PIT and LBE. Imagine PIT offering basically no fees for X number of years to PE, which essentially what keeps the overall cost at PIT high. This would casue fares to compete pretty evenly with LBE. Something about PE worries me. I mean i hope they succeed, but i also hope that nothing hurts NK at LBE. 5 minutes from your car seat to aircraft seat is the best thing ever. I

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-01 04:46:25 and read 9864 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 169):
Now, common sense says if it didn't work in the past with the same concept, why would it work now?

It didn't work then because PIT was a huge fortress hub in which the incumbent carrier had a lackadaisical yet still powerful desire to defend its turf. That's not the case today.

Quoting Cush (Reply 169):
. Imagine PIT offering basically no fees for X number of years to PE, which essentially what keeps the overall cost at PIT high.

What keeps the overall costs high at PIT is the debt on the midfield terminal until 2018.

Incentives are nothing new in this industry. Speaking of NK at LBE, I think the news of PIT offering incentives for new destinations, and the resulting headlines about PE are coming about because NK at LBE finally lit a fire under Allegheny County's ass.

On that note, I too hope LBE succeeds  

[Edited 2013-02-01 04:49:07]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-01 08:22:01 and read 9806 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 170):
I too hope LBE succeeds

Same here! I love that LBE is proving to be quite an alternative to PIT. Heh, the Greater Pittsburgh area has two commercial airports. Who would have thought of that?

The region is growing again. Jobs and population are on the increase; utilities, technology companies -- they're all interested in creating jobs in the region. That will mean, hopefully, more travel demand. As long as demand increases with the local job and population growth, there could be more to go around for both LBE and PIT.

Now, regarding PeoplExpress, I'd really like for them to adopt the Airtran model. They had (yes, I'm using past-tense here since they're in the middle of their buyout with Southwest) one massive hub at Atlanta with a secondary hub at BWI, and a slew of focus cities in Florida, and they offered a two-class seating. They served most of the major airports instead of some way out-of-the-way destination like what Skybus attempted. Didn't they fly to ABE and call it Philadelphia? That's not even in the greater Philly metro area. This model worked well, and I wish WN wasn't going to do away with it. Airtran lasted what, 13 years or so with this model? PE does plan on flying into EWR, so that right there should tell us they are not going with a SB model -- at least not entirely anyway.

I'd like to see them fly routes like PIT-MDW as opposed to Gary or RFD. Again, not to knock Newport News, but PIT has a larger catchment area, and I think a HQ/main base there would make more sense. What is the O&D for the Hampton Roads area? PIT's is around 8 million. I know I saw some report earlier that said its O&D was somewhere around 4 million or so at max, but that was way back in the days of the US hub. Very few people are using PIT for connections anymore...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: MasseyBrown
Posted 2013-02-01 13:02:09 and read 9750 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 167):
KDKA is now even reporting about PE looking at PIT

Welcome them with open arms until they ask for an "investment" in the company. Then keep your hands in your pockets.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2013-02-01 18:43:00 and read 9693 times.

PIT year-end totals released today

http://www.pitairport.com/airport_statistics

Final count: 8,011,581 - down 3.1% from 2011.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-02-01 18:49:30]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: FreshSide3
Posted 2013-02-01 20:51:58 and read 9640 times.

Quoting atct (Reply 160):
PIT-SEA, and to a lesser extent SAN, might be doable from Alaska. From what I hear, their new (past 2 or 3 years) STL service is doing awesome. They do fly -700's just not many of them.

It would be consistent with what AS is doing....

Quoting Cush (Reply 157):
I think the whole idea is awful. Like the article mentioned about London, I think that should be a number one priority. Even better would be LH to FRA or MUC with the large germany company presence in the PIT region. Most of these destinations make no sense.

Yes, local traffic on German destinations would be stronger than CDG out of PIT, that's for sure.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-02 04:08:00 and read 9587 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 173):
PIT year-end totals released today

http://www.pitairport.com/airport_statistics

Final count: 8,011,581 - down 3.1% from 2011.

Not surprising considering the loss of WN to PHL. Its interesting to note that PIT's traffic is down by about 200,000 pax, which is what LBE gained. Pretty much a wash for the region, but still disappointing results.

Looks like Chevron will build a 43 acre corporate campus by the airport. As long as these developments continue, demand for air service will grow as well.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...on-exploring-moon-for-new-hub.html

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 174):

Yes, local traffic on German destinations would be stronger than CDG out of PIT, that's for sure.

If you compare Paris with individual cities in Germany, Paris has higher demand than all of them.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

Pittsburgh's business ties with Germany are largely in the CGN/DUS region. FRA appeared to have high O&D from PIT, but presumably business travelers would take the nonstop flight there then hop on the ICE train. Now that you have to make a connection to get to FRA, you might as well make that connection straight to CGN or DUS instead. You will notice the O&D to FRA is down by 50% since we lost the nonstop flight, but DUS is up 156% since 2003.

Getting a nonstop to DUS is never going to happen, so keeping CDG is a better deal and someday we will get LHR, which is also a better deal.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-02-02 11:29:50 and read 9497 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 175):
Looks like Chevron will build a 43 acre corporate campus by the airport. As long as these developments continue, demand for air service will grow as well.

2 Carriers already do PIT-Houston (Southwest starts in April) so this campus - campus is served. The only bump is maybe PIT-SFO will go daily on UA with the traffic between this campus and their HQ out in CA.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-02 15:57:04 and read 9532 times.

Quoting atct (Reply 176):
The only bump is maybe PIT-SFO will go daily on UA with the traffic between this campus and their HQ out in CA.

PIT-SFO is indeed scheduled to go daily in the summer (as is LAX). Lets hope it sticks to year round daily

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: YNGguins
Posted 2013-02-02 18:42:15 and read 9470 times.

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 166):
You also have the lack of air service of any kind from Youngstown OH. Not that it's a big market, but for those who are traveling long distances, for practical purposes, turn this into a CLE vs. PIT competition.

Youngstown is an interesting market. Most markets of its size (550k), would have a nice batch of air service. With CAK-CLE-PIT within a 90 minute drive of the Mahoning Valley, it has been difficult to YNG to recover. However, Allegiant continues to grow at YNG and will likely add PGD in the near future. After years of 10-15k in passengers, YNG had 77,000 passengers in 2012, the most since the late 1990s. Before you know it, they will have over 100,000 passengers. If not in 2013, I would imagine in 2014.

If you note the YNG SCASD application, there is a slide in there that is very interesting. At the time of the application, 49% of the YNG leakage was to PIT, while just 35% was to CLE. Due to the location of PIT and the advertising dollars invested in YNG, it certainly seems as though you have a solid amount of traffic, to the tune of roughly 200,000 passengers a year (if not more), coming from the Mahoning Valley.

I think it is important for PIT to continue to keep a hold on this traffic, but it may be difficult. As Allegiant expands, the need for the likes of Southwest down south may diminish quite a bit each year. Furthermore, if YNG get's daily service, that may also put a dent in that number.

Pay attention to things at YNG, because it will affect PIT in some facet or another. I still love PIT and enjoy flying out of there. Hope to see it strong and viable yet again!!!

[Edited 2013-02-02 18:46:04]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-02-03 07:37:25 and read 9355 times.

Really good article in the PG here. The County just hired a guy for 6 figures a year, with the sole job being to attract new carriers to PIT. His experience in the aviation industry (none). Great pick ACAA!!

Here is a link: http://1iny.com/88990/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-03 16:34:16 and read 9247 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 179):
Really good article in the PG here. The County just hired a guy for 6 figures a year, with the sole job being to attract new carriers to PIT. His experience in the aviation industry (none). Great pick ACAA!!

Here is a link: http://1iny.com/88990/

Seriously! If this job opens up again because this guy proves to be too incompetent (pretty much everyone else associated with Allegheny County government and politics, altho there are some boobs who stay on the job for years on end...), I'm still available!! Hell, at least I have a transportation planning background. Not necessarily in aviation, but still. If this guy is qualified, then so am I!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kkephart13
Posted 2013-02-04 07:51:43 and read 9119 times.

Maybe someone can verify/confirm this... I heard thru the grapevine that there is a Harley Davidson store going in next to the brighton store is?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: kpitrrat
Posted 2013-02-04 08:32:28 and read 9098 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 181):

Yes. At least that is what it says on the white board concealing the storefront. It is right across from the book store in the core of airside.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-04 12:56:41 and read 9034 times.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 181):
Maybe someone can verify/confirm this... I heard thru the grapevine that there is a Harley Davidson store going in next to the brighton store is?
Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 182):
Yes. At least that is what it says on the white board concealing the storefront. It is right across from the book store in the core of airside.

  

What now? This should be interesting...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-04 16:00:02 and read 8978 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 179):
Really good article in the PG here. The County just hired a guy for 6 figures a year, with the sole job being to attract new carriers to PIT

Not to mention being in the legislative body which confirms appointments to his own authority. The whole thing reeks, as does much of Allegheny Co politics.



Somewhat related to air service development, looks like Amtrak will finally axe its Pgh-Harrisburg line, which continues to Philly and NYC. It also stops in smaller cities such as LBE, JST, AOO.

While not many apparently use the Amtrak service, this will only help the case to reintroduce air service to these smaller cities from PIT, as well as more competition to PHL.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...sburg-amtrak-route-may-end-673327/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-05 07:40:04 and read 8872 times.

^^ That may be, but I'm still not exactly happy about that. Pennsylvania is very backwards and seems to be doing what it can to isolate Pittsburgh from any kind of decent transportation access to the State Capital and to Philly. No, Greyhound and Megabus do not count as decent transportation. Anything carting around winos and other low-lifes for the most part is not what I would call decent. I know that from personal experience. Not to mention, what about those articles in the PG and Trib that discussed how the convention center wanted the Megabus stop moved because of trash associated with the clientelle?

I've said this in other discussion forums. I think local officials need to open discussions with those in Cleveland, Toledo, South Bend, and Chicago to discuss adequate rail service along this corridor. There should be a morning train departing for Cleveland and points west, but there isn't. The Capitol Limited stops at both PGH and Cleveland in the middle of the night. Naturally you're only going to have a dozen people riding the train in that case...

Regarding the initiative to re-launch air service to some of the smaller towns in PA, I still have my doubts about that. While losing Amtrak to Harrisburg would strengthen this argument, I don't think it would be worth the loss. Call me crazy, but that's my opinion...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-02-05 13:37:52 and read 8793 times.

PIT is looking for a new CEO as Mr. Penrod is to become the CSO and President...

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/ACAA_Announces_Strategic_Plan

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-05 14:09:19 and read 8765 times.

Quoting dabpit (Reply 186):

I wonder which county politician (or relative) will get this job?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-05 16:28:26 and read 8743 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 185):
That may be, but I'm still not exactly happy about that. Pennsylvania is very backwards and seems to be doing what it can to isolate Pittsburgh from any kind of decent transportation access to the State Capital and to Philly.

From the article - "Amtrak could not provide separate figures for Pittsburgh-to-Harrisburg ridership. If half of the Pittsburgh riders use that service, the proposed subsidy amounts to $88 per rider, well above the current $40 ticket price."

I can't think of anything more backwards than subsidizing each Amtrak passenger to Harrisburg to the tune of $88. And that's only for the existing slow 5+ hour journey. I can't imagine how many billions it would cost to upgrade that to a dedicated high speed line. Why not just pay me $87, and I promise to never use the thing. That would be a win-win. I gain, and the state saves money as well.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-06 01:25:23 and read 8623 times.

"Allegheny County Airport Authority demotes director Bradley D. Penrod"

"In an interview Tuesday night, county Executive Rich Fitzgerald said there has been a "level of frustration" on the board and in the business community over the level of service at Pittsburgh International, which has seen the number of flights drop dramatically since US Airways eliminated its hub nearly a decade ago.

"I think this is something the board wanted to see happen, and I was in agreement with what the board wanted to do," he said.

While Mr. Fitzgerald said that Mr. Penrod had done a good job operating the airport, he wasn't nearly as generous rating his performance in attracting flights.

"Obviously, we haven't gotten more flights. We've done very poorly over the last eight or nine years," he said. "We've got to take corrective action.
"

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-director-bradley-d-penrod-673545/

We all know the reason PIT is not growing flights is because of the high fees. Fitzgerald obstructed major efforts to bring major revenue to the airport, which would reduce those fees. First interfering with the shale drilling, and now with the desire to redirect casino revenue currently going to the airport. He is directly responsible for the lack of growth at PIT, and now makes Penrod some sort of scapegoat to save face. Unreal.

More here:
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...ority-airport-county#axzz2K6io6eBb

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-06 13:17:24 and read 8523 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 189):
We all know the reason PIT is not growing flights is because of the high fees. Fitzgerald obstructed major efforts to bring major revenue to the airport, which would reduce those fees. First interfering with the shale drilling, and now with the desire to redirect casino revenue currently going to the airport. He is directly responsible for the lack of growth at PIT, and now makes Penrod some sort of scapegoat to save face. Unreal.

I agree with you about Fitzgerald, but are you endorsing the job Penrod has done? I think he needed to go long ago. I just hope they don't hire another Allegheny hack politician to replace him.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-06 16:11:28 and read 8500 times.

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 190):

I agree with you about Fitzgerald, but are you endorsing the job Penrod has done? I think he needed to go long ago.

I think Penrod was a slight improvement over his predecessor Kent George, who seemed very arrogant especially with the way he dealt with US Airways. Fitzgerald and Onorato both have tied the hands of the ACAA chief so much that I don't think anyone would have been successful in that position.

Fitz needs to do what he said by searching the world for the Lee Iococca of the airport industry, then let him do his job.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-07 20:34:36 and read 8315 times.

"Allegheny County reaches $500 million deal for airport drilling"

Consol Energy Inc. will pay an estimated $500 million over the next 20 years for the right to drill for shale gas on land surrounding Pittsburgh International Airport.

At the start of a public hearing about airport drilling this evening in Moon, Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald announced details of the proposed agreement, which would include a $50 million upfront bonus payment and an estimated $450 million in royalties.

Mr. Fitzgerald said Consol also is planning to invest another $500 million in infrastructure and other costs related to the drilling, bringing the entire package to $1 billion.

"This deal is basically going to be a billion dollar investment that Consol is making in this region without any taxpayer dollars,"

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-deal-for-airport-drilling-673828/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tooluther
Posted 2013-02-08 06:47:18 and read 8240 times.

Am I reading correctly that at least the entirety of the upfront payment ($50 mill) is going exclusively to the airport authority as a stimulus to reduce fees????? This could be the game changer folks. Even if they off set half of the current debt payments for the next five (initial loan principal is payed of in 2018, correct?) that would allow the authority to dramatically reduce landing fees. This directly impacts the conversation above about leisure traveler leakage to Youngstown and LBE.

I agree the CE dicked around with this too much over the past year, but if he has come around we should celebrate.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tooluther
Posted 2013-02-08 07:01:06 and read 8240 times.

also:

Any one at the airport today seeing actual diversions/temporary stores a/c from the storms in the north east?
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ittsburgh-readies-airport-for.html

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-08 19:51:23 and read 8117 times.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 193):
Am I reading correctly that at least the entirety of the upfront payment ($50 mill) is going exclusively to the airport authority as a stimulus to reduce fees?????

I believe you are correct; the FAA requires that all revenue generated by the airport remain at the airport. However, that can mean it goes to things other than lowering landing fees, such as continuing to develop business parks on airport land. And that is exactly what Fitz said he wants to do.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 193):

I agree the CE dicked around with this too much over the past year, but if he has come around we should celebrate.

I must admit, $50 million up front and approximately $450 million over 20 years (not to mention $500 million in infrastructure development) is much greater than I would have thought, so I'll give Fitzy some credit for the scope of this deal.

This could be something to celebrate if it pans out. I'm cautiously optimistic this revenue, the recently announced incentive package, and PE possibly coming into PIT with us as their focus could mean an interesting 2013.

[Edited 2013-02-08 19:52:58]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: GSP psgr
Posted 2013-02-13 15:08:32 and read 7847 times.

So, given what appears to be the imminent merger of US and AA, guesses as to the impact for PIT? Here's my thoughts:

-I think we'll see the combined entity begin new service PIT-LAX, with one less corresponding frequency to PHX.
-Upgauges to PIT-MIA (CR9s?) and PIT-ORD (E70s/CR9s)
-An additional daily frequency to DFW, something like 6 daily, though perhaps with slightly smaller aircraft like 319s
-Maybe a loss of a frequency or two to CLT.
-Likelihood of PIT-LHR on a 757 goes up, but by how much....

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-02-13 15:13:47 and read 7835 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 196):
-I think we'll see the combined entity begin new service PIT-LAX, with one less corresponding frequency to PHX.
-Upgauges to PIT-MIA (CR9s?) and PIT-ORD (E70s/CR9s)
-An additional daily frequency to DFW, something like 6 daily, though perhaps with slightly smaller aircraft like 319s
-Maybe a loss of a frequency or two to CLT.
-Likelihood of PIT-LHR on a 757 goes up, but by how much....


Don't count on to much action if anything at all.

Maybe in 3 to 4 years after the dust has settled.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-13 15:47:37 and read 7816 times.

I enjoyed the Star connection for PIT-CLT-MUN on US/LH. That will be toast.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-13 16:51:06 and read 7789 times.

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 196):
So, given what appears to be the imminent merger of US and AA, guesses as to the impact for PIT? Here's my thoughts:

-I think we'll see the combined entity begin new service PIT-LAX, with one less corresponding frequency to PHX.
-Upgauges to PIT-MIA (CR9s?) and PIT-ORD (E70s/CR9s)
-An additional daily frequency to DFW, something like 6 daily, though perhaps with slightly smaller aircraft like 319s
-Maybe a loss of a frequency or two to CLT.
-Likelihood of PIT-LHR on a 757 goes up, but by how much....

Here are my guesses, posted in another thread:

Quoting PITrules:
It certainly won't be good in terms of jobs, considering that US's SOC is at PIT. That's 400 jobs that will be sent to DFW. Then there is the maintenance base, which employs 1000-1500 machinists. The facilities are old and small. US Airways has been extending the leases incrementally, but I see no need for AA to do the same considering their already sizeable and more modern mx facilities elsewhere including their closed base at MCI.

As far as air service, I can see LAX added. It would be interesting if AA/BA finally add 757s to LHR from medium sized northeasern US cities. If so PIT could possibly be in that mix, in addition to DTW and perhaps a couple others.


Since then, its interesting to note that AA has indicated an increase to both ORD and DFW in the latest OAG update.

DFW will be 5x daily MD-80's. At first I thought it might be a competitive response to NK on LBE-DFW; but this is more likely due to good demand to DFW which has a booming economy, in addition to increased connections to the west coast which are sorely lacking from PIT.

ORD will be served 7x daily by American Eagle. I believe this is the first time in the history of PIT-ORD service that American will offer more frequencies than United.



"Drilling boom feeds need for flights between Pittsburgh and small airports"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...urgh-service-airport#axzz2KpVB8yLM


Here are a few pics of a Swift Air 767 parked at the FBO a few days ago.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/IMG_0378_zps312a18a2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/IMG_0379_zpsb537abe8.jpg

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-13 17:20:26 and read 7744 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 199):
Here are a few pics of a Swift Air 767 parked at the FBO a few days ago.

Looks like we had the same idea...


Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-13 17:36:45 and read 7703 times.

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 200):

Looks like we had the same idea...

Cool pics!

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: YNGguins
Posted 2013-02-13 17:39:50 and read 7792 times.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 193):
Am I reading correctly that at least the entirety of the upfront payment ($50 mill) is going exclusively to the airport authority as a stimulus to reduce fees????? This could be the game changer folks. Even if they off set half of the current debt payments for the next five (initial loan principal is payed of in 2018, correct?) that would allow the authority to dramatically reduce landing fees. This directly impacts the conversation above about leisure traveler leakage to Youngstown and LBE.

I agree the CE dicked around with this too much over the past year, but if he has come around we should celebrate.


Perhaps, but Latrobe and Youngstown have Spirit and Allegiant respectively BECAUSE their landing fees are so low, if not virtually nothing.

Secondly, YNG is working on an oil and gas deal as well. The port authority has 1,500 prime acres in the heart of the Utica Shale of Northeast Ohio. They should make out handsomely as well.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-02-13 19:55:09 and read 7716 times.

What is sad is when i am looking for domestic flights, and my first instinct is to check LBE and YNG first.... I live 10 mins from PIT, yet when comparing fares, i laugh. Flights from LBE-(DFW/LAS) are 1/2 to 1/3 of what they are from PIT-(DFW/LAS). Also, fares from YNG aren't bad, although destinations are so limited and connections are nil. Still, it's an ok deal, but no where near Spirit.

I am flying on NK for my third time in about a week here, so I will be sure to post some thoughts when i return. LBE-MYR-LBE. Should be fun! And I have the "Big Front Seat" for the first time ever. I figured, I am going on vacation, so why not treat myself. lol.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-14 09:53:37 and read 7605 times.

Well the US/AA merger is official. The new AA will serve 13 destinations in 60 daily departures from PIT for now.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-02-14 10:44:25 and read 7576 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 199):
Here are my guesses, posted in another thread:

Quoting PITrules:
It certainly won't be good in terms of jobs, considering that US's SOC is at PIT. That's 400 jobs that will be sent to DFW. Then there is the maintenance base, which employs 1000-1500 machinists. The facilities are old and small. US Airways has been extending the leases incrementally, but I see no need for AA to do the same considering their already sizeable and more modern mx facilities elsewhere including their closed base at MCI.

As far as air service, I can see LAX added. It would be interesting if AA/BA finally add 757s to LHR from medium sized northeasern US cities. If so PIT could possibly be in that mix, in addition to DTW and perhaps a couple others.

Agreed even though the SOC at PIT is fairly new

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-02-15 06:01:42 and read 7423 times.

Looks like the new Southwest nonstop flights to PBI are doing well. The article says they are pretty full! http://1iny.com/88997/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-15 07:46:24 and read 7397 times.

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 204):
Well the US/AA merger is official. The new AA will serve 13 destinations in 60 daily departures from PIT for now.

Almost as big as the US focus city before they shuttered that, or was it officially axed when US dropped their presence to 68 daily flights down from 100-something?

Also, considering the terminal/logistical side of this discussion, I would imagine that AA would moved over to the B gates if all goes through. B has unused gates, and I don't think DL or UA are all too willing to give up their gate space on D. UA is out of the D concourse now, aren't they? Or did they move over to C?

Also, would the US Airways club becom am Admirals Club? I imagine the US Airways club at PIT is pretty popular among US frequent flyers...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: threeifbyair
Posted 2013-02-15 09:40:55 and read 7358 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 207):
Also, considering the terminal/logistical side of this discussion, I would imagine that AA would moved over to the B gates if all goes through. B has unused gates, and I don't think DL or UA are all too willing to give up their gate space on D. UA is out of the D concourse now, aren't they? Or did they move over to C?

Agree that AA can move into the existing US operation on B - should be plenty of slack. Bascially AA is using 2 gates (C88/89) and US is currently using some gates with 3-4 hours between flights.

I'm still seeing some UA flights out of D77/79 (CLE and EWR departures today). UA would probably need another C gate to replace that operation. The existing 2 UA gates are scheduled pretty tightly at times right now.

By the end of this reshuffle, PIT will look like this (more or less):

A: WN (4 gates, A1/3/5/7)
B: AA (~12 gates, B26-37)
C: UA (3 gates, C51/53/55), AC (sharing with UA), B6 (1 gate, C56)
D: DL (5 gates, D76/78/80/82/84)

Still hoping for AS, but that would probably be a gate-share with DL given their relationship and co-location at other airport.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tooluther
Posted 2013-02-15 11:44:57 and read 7305 times.

IIRC UA is consolidating ops on A. I agree that AA will easily slide into US's existing gates on B at which point, the Airport Authority should be able to investigate truncating the D concourse after gate 84-ish. the C concourse will serve Jet Blue and charters/common use + Int'l arrivals.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-02-15 13:20:34 and read 7268 times.

Quoting tooluther (Reply 209):
Still hoping for AS

That would be a nice flight  

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-15 13:37:08 and read 7274 times.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 208):
Still hoping for AS,

The market of O&D pax between PIT and SEA (AS main hub) is listed as 253 daily pax from Q3 12, and this is the busy season. The pax number is 136 daily in the slow season. The market of O&D between PIT and PDX (AS second hub) is listed as 139 daily pax in the busy season.

I would think that SEA could be a possibility if the numbers went up some..... say..... over 300 daily pax, and this be a yearly average.

I think that there might be a few markets ahead of PIT in terms of O&D where AS might be looking....... although...... who knows......... PIT could be an AS surprise somewhere down the line........



 

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: dabpit
Posted 2013-02-15 13:49:49 and read 7246 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 211):
The market of O&D pax between PIT and SEA (AS main hub) is listed as 253 daily pax from Q3 12, and this is the busy season. The pax number is 136 daily in the slow season. The market of O&D between PIT and PDX (AS second hub) is listed as 139 daily pax in the busy season.

I would think that SEA could be a possibility if the numbers went up some..... say..... over 300 daily pax, and this be a yearly average.

I think that there might be a few markets ahead of PIT in terms of O&D where AS might be looking....... although...... who knows......... PIT could be an AS surprise somewhere down the line........

That is great info!

on a side note where did you obtain the pax numbers? Feel free to PM me! Thanks.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-15 16:54:12 and read 7164 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 211):
The market of O&D pax between PIT and SEA (AS main hub) is listed as 253 daily pax from Q3 12, and this is the busy season. The pax number is 136 daily in the slow season. The market of O&D between PIT and PDX (AS second hub) is listed as 139 daily pax in the busy season.

Remember though, these numbers are total between city pairs. The number of travelers going daily each way is half those numbers.

SEA could work at least on a seasonal basis as long as there are connections to PDX, YVR, ANC, Hawaii, and Asia (via DL codeshare).

Quoting dabpit (Reply 212):
That is great info!

on a side note where did you obtain the pax numbers?
http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report
Table 6

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2013-02-15 21:43:54 and read 7097 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 207):
Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 208):
By the end of this reshuffle, PIT will look like this (more or less):

A: WN (4 gates, A1/3/5/7)
B: AA (~12 gates, B26-37)
C: UA (3 gates, C51/53/55), AC (sharing with UA), B6 (1 gate, C56)
D: DL (5 gates, D76/78/80/82/84)

UA is planning to move to A2, A4, A6, A8, A10, A12 and the ramp space on A14 by Labor Day. Wouldn't be surprised to see AA on B, though. DL will stay where they are. WN too.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-15 23:15:31 and read 7073 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 207):
B has unused gates, and I don't think DL or UA are all too willing to give up their gate space on D. UA is out of the D concourse now, aren't they? Or did they move over to C?



Quoting PITrules (Reply 67):
"Airport shuffles gates, seeking savings for merged airlines"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...1163/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-16 17:18:37 and read 6884 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 215):

If there was an emoticon for [head in palm] I'd use that here. Thanks for reposting.

That does make things rather interesting tho. AA moves over to B, which would leave the entire D concourse to DL and the entire C concourse a ghosttown.

If PeoplExpress is given "clearance for takeoff," it would be interesting to see which concourses and gates they occupy. Can the airline choose such, or does the ACAA pick where they run their ops?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Flaps
Posted 2013-02-16 17:31:56 and read 6889 times.

Last I heard B6 would keep one gate in C. They would be the only permanent operator. That leaves the rest of C and half each of A, B and D available. People Express could fit into any of those spaces although I would think that the reopening of the ends of A and B would be the least likely at this point.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-16 23:32:12 and read 6817 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 216):

If PeoplExpress is given "clearance for takeoff," it would be interesting to see which concourses and gates they occupy.

I remember another news link that stated they were to sign for two gates to start with. Considering the above moves, C would make the most sense considering it would be empty other than B6's one gate, yet the entire length needs to remain open for int'l arrivals. If they ever get off the ground, I can see PeoplExpress offering weekend flights to places such as CUN and AUA, so it would make sense for that reason as well.



More hangars in the works for AGC:
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...share-10-million-in-grants-675704/

Not sure if these are corporate or T-hangars.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-02-17 21:56:57 and read 6627 times.

Don't make fun of me for asking, but what do you see as the prohibiting factors for a small regional carrier setting up shop at AGC? I understand you would need a few TSA agents, but aside from some personnel and equipment, what is stopping someone? Couldn't you see a few smaller prop or emb/crj aircraft parked at the fence?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-18 05:59:23 and read 6608 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 219):
Don't make fun of me for asking, but what do you see as the prohibiting factors for a small regional carrier setting up shop at AGC? I understand you would need a few TSA agents, but aside from some personnel and equipment, what is stopping someone? Couldn't you see a few smaller prop or emb/crj aircraft parked at the fence?


Because PIT is under utilized and Pittsburgh is not big enough to justify the same. NYC needs three airports for a reason, London City in England has economic justification.

Plus I would rather not cede the world's greatest GA field to regional jets. Dreams of landing a 757, conviently disguised as a Cessna 172 are crushed when a big jet shows up.....

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-18 09:17:55 and read 6536 times.

Quoting Cush (Reply 219):

I'm not sure if there is anything stopping anyone, but I don't see it supported by the ACAA considering the lack of flights at PIT.

AGC does have ACY charters every so often. DOT data shows 1 regional carrier flight every 2-3 months. Also, you may recall Nations Air, the 727/737 operator which set up shop at PIT in the 1990s. Their original business plan was to use AGC. I don't see anything on a scheduled basis in the future other than perhaps Ultimate Air Shuttle.
www.ultimateairshuttle.com/

Pittsburgh doesn't need 3 commercial airports.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-18 12:27:06 and read 6469 times.

Another thought that came to mind after reading PITRules' comments was the noise issue. Both ends of 28/10 and 13/31 to a lesser degree, are over dense areas, with very dense residential when departing on 28. There is also a safety factor for over runs and none of the approach lighting towers are frangible.... If you over-run the end landing on 10 with a good sized jet, there would be some serious damage.

Enough widows likely shake when a certain DC-9 tears through, let alone regular commercial service which might generate a lot of complaints.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-18 14:21:49 and read 6416 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 218):
Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 222):

There's both of those, and to add onto pliersinsight's reply, here's something I can add.

I used to live at the end of Oakleaf Drive in Baldwin Borough from the time I was born in 1983 until we moved to another part of the borough in 1994. Just about every 10 minutes there would be planes taking off and landing. I even remember potty-training and hearing super loud private jets taking off overhead. It sounded like they were coming right into our house!

I remember seeing a private DC9 there. My mom and I were there one day just looking at different planes taking off and landing. We were about to leave for the day. As I was about to get in the car, I heard this very loud jet engine. I looked over and there's this enormous plane -- said DC9. We watched it take off from Runway 10 as it headed for the rest of West Mifflin Borough.

Something else to add. What about traffic? I know the area is served by a few arterial roads. If you throw in a 3rd airport that would handle some scheduled commercial traffic, I think you'd have some traffic problems. Look at LBE. Are there any shopping centers or office use buildings around out there? I think Latrobe-proper is some ways down the road, and looking at Google Earth, there is some concentration of a few smaller shopping centers. It doesn't look like anything along the same scale as what is in West Mifflin tho.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-19 18:38:43 and read 6254 times.

Allegheny Co council approved the airport gas drilling plan tonight. The ACAA should receive the $50 deposit next month, with drilling to be under way in two years.
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...unty-million-airport#axzz2LGny8b8c

[Edited 2013-02-19 18:39:44]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-20 13:06:47 and read 6119 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 224):

From the article:

Quote:
“While the revenues from this deal will go directly to the airport, Allegheny County taxpayers benefit, too,” Fitzgerald said in a statement touting the deal's potential to lower airline costs and boost business in the neighboring suburbs. “With this type of investment, there will be even more growth of good, family-sustaining jobs in our community.”

Did I read that right? Did Fitzgerald said that he favors money going toward lowering costs to the airlines? I'll believe it when I see it...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-02-20 13:58:26 and read 6106 times.

And on a different note, the US Olympic committee has sent the mayor of Pittsburgh a letter requesting if Pittsburgh would be interesting in hosting the 2024 Summer Olympics and Paralympics. Now granted, they sent the letter to 35 cities, but I have never heard of Pittsburgh being asked before.

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3...mittee-games-olympic#axzz2LSVqm5EH

I personally love the idea and hope we submit a bid. I understand it would take a lot of work to do it, but watching the history channel and all the shows that were made from making all the stadiums in London and what they are doing in Rio just makes me want to be a part of that. It would bring a global recognition to Pittsburgh and the surrounding area and might even give us a big ROI with new partnerships and companies coming here. Plus it would just be great exposure to culture of Pittsburgh.

And let's not kid ourselves though, who here wouldn't want to see PIT with every concourse opened up fully and with a full concourse or two of just international flights from every country in the world?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-20 14:11:56 and read 6156 times.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 225):
Did I read that right? Did Fitzgerald said that he favors money going toward lowering costs to the airlines? I'll believe it when I see it..

Well he's a politician, and his lips were moving. We all know he wanted to divert that money but finally seems resigned to the fact he can't.

He still wants to divert the casino revenue money now going to PIT. That will need State approval, but I have a feeling he will succeed on that front. PIT gets $12.5 million per year from the casino. Lets say the mineral rights bring in the expected $20 million per year, so that would still be an additional $8 million/yr the airport would get if the casino money goes away. Not quite the windfall hoped for, but still better than nothing. IIRC PIT's operating budget is about $60 million per year including debt payments, so $8 million could still have a slight positive impact on reducing landing fees. But then again not all that money will go towards landing fees, as he has repeatedly stated he also wants to use some of that money to expand infrastructure for business parks on airport land.

Many questions remain.

So I'm wondering about LBE? With 700 acres, they must be considering something similar. A similar agreement would easily pay for the new terminal on their wish list, and whatever else they need.



Found this 1988 video uploaded on you tube showing the old terminal. Its different than the others posted in previous threads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWW8mbwTfBI

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-02-20 17:39:15 and read 6095 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 220):
Plus I would rather not cede the world's greatest GA field to regional jets.

You need to get out more.

atct

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-21 04:53:35 and read 5998 times.

Quoting atct (Reply 228):
You need to get out more.

Well, if you transferred AGC to a Caribbean island and put a Ritz Carlton resort on the field, I'd be onto something.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 227):

He still wants to divert the casino revenue money now going to PIT. That will need State approval, but I have a feeling he will succeed on that front. PIT gets $12.5 million per year from the casino. Lets say the mineral rights bring in the expected $20 million per year, so that would still be an additional $8 million/yr the airport would get if the casino money goes away. Not quite the windfall hoped for, but still better than nothing. IIRC PIT's operating budget is about $60 million per year including debt payments, so $8 million could still have a slight positive impact on reducing landing fees. But then again not all that money will go towards landing fees, as he has repeatedly stated he also wants to use some of that money to expand infrastructure for business parks on airport land.


All the money in the world is not going to improve O&D traffic. They could make all the fees zero and it wouldn't change anything. Unless 50,000 Pittsburghers a day suddenly decide to start going places, the old traffic volumes aren't coming back. We're not going to get a daily A380 from Dubai just because the landing fees are cheap.....

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-21 14:35:36 and read 5873 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 229):
They could make all the fees zero and it wouldn't change anything.

That's just plain false. More than one airline complained about the high fees, and stated they would add more service if that would not be the case. With more service comes more competition and lower fares, which in turn stimulates more O&D. Lets say PeoplExpress really takes off or if Southwest decides to do some meaningful expansion, then O&D would increase, and even more people from Ohio would make the drive to PIT as well.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 229):
Unless 50,000 Pittsburghers a day suddenly decide to start going places, the old traffic volumes aren't coming back. We're not going to get a daily A380 from Dubai just because the landing fees are cheap.....

That's an extreme and overly simplistic example. No one is expecting the old traffic volumes back anytime soon, or A380s. However, the Pittsburgh MSA must be one of the most under served in the US. The number of passengers nationwide is increasing slightly, while at PIT it is down again. This all while the national economy is in the toilet while it is quite strong in Pittsburgh.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-21 15:56:07 and read 5840 times.

I think airlines will always complain about gate and landing fees the way passengers complain about airlines charging them, but if the demand is there, they will add flights and price accordingly. You either take higher taxes from the citizens and charge lower gate fees, or charge higher gate fees and tickets are more expensive. Currently, and in the past decade, the ACAA has operated under what we could call "The Airfield of Dreams" philosophy that if we build it, or more correctly "because it is here" they will come. The airport will remain the used car the county hires successive salesmen to sell it to no avail because the demand isn't there. I don't see how we are under served when in this month alone I booked 14 tickets. The fares were all dirt cheap. Some were first class seats at what would be under market for coach in other cities. A ticket I booked a few month's back resulted in a change from United because I bought the only seat on the flight for 3 months, so they cancelled the flight. One of the flights I booked was for a few months from now and no seats besides the one I bought were sold. Despite being a less than scientific survey, that screams of a lack of demand, not under served. In terms of a more formal look, here are some O&D numbers, the top 50 cities. There are cities below us that have greater populations....so I just don't get where the under served data comes from other than the belief that Pittsburgh is a lot bigger than it actually is.



Metro Daily O&D total total O&D O&D % # of Airports
New York 127,801 51,883,694 23,131,981 44.60% 6 airports
Los Angeles 104,723 34,789,171 18,954,863 54.50% 4 airports
Chicago 86,821 39,281,585 15,714,601 40.00% 2 airports
Miami 79,636 31,262,044 14,414,116 46.10% 3 airports
Las Vegas 73,138 20,224,090 13,237,978 65.50%
San Francisco 68,838 22,139,378 12,459,678 56.30% 2 airports
Orlando 68,040 18,211,975 12,315,240 67.60% 2 airports
Dallas/Ft.Worth 59,577 31,149,065 10,783,437 34.60% 2 airports
Atlanta 56,645 43,008,154 10,252,745 23.80%
Phoenix 54,040 18,968,897 9,781,240 51.60%
Denver 53,747 24,337,554 9,728,207 40.00%
Washington 52,832 19,915,669 9,562,592 48.00% 2 airports
Boston 44,673 12,068,312 8,085,813 67.00%
Seattle 43,376 14,787,443 7,851,056 53.10%
Philadelphia 41,860 14,878,298 7,576,660 50.90%
Houston 39,021 23,606,848 7,062,801 29.90% 2 airports
Tampa 39,021 9,348,162 7,062,801 75.30% 2 airports
Baltimore 38,901 10,001,992 7,041,081 70.30%
San Diego 36,242 8,171,820 6,559,802 80.30%
Minneapolis 34,399 16,173,119 6,226,219 38.50%
Detroit 33,128 15,715,346 5,996,168 38.20%
Salt Lake City 22,696 9,988,837 4,107,976 41.10%
St. Louis 22,361 6,258,829 4,047,341 64.70%
Portland 22,144 6,116,995 4,008,064 65.50%
Sacramento 20,175 4,356,274 3,651,675 83.80%
Kansas City 19,973 4,685,648 3,615,113 77.20%
Charlotte 19,562 17,215,648 3,540,722 20.60%
Raleigh/Durham 18,585 4,291,234 3,363,885 78.40%
San Jose 18,581 4,039,922 3,363,161 83.30%
New Orleans 18,378 3,977,881 3,326,418 83.60%
Austin 17,189 3,915,683 3,111,209 79.50%

Pittsburgh 16,913 3,922,714 3,061,253 78.00%

San Antonio 16,777 3,830,211 3,036,637 79.30%
Nashville 16,751 4,329,413 3,031,931 70.00%
Indianapolis 16,377 4,155,161 2,964,237 71.30%
Riverside 14,623 3,302,863 2,646,763 80.10% 2 airports
Columbus 13,328 3,028,930 2,412,368 79.60%
Jacksonville 12,741 2,835,324 2,306,121 81.30%
Milwaukee 12,541 3,560,224 2,269,921 63.80%
Hartford 12,099 3,056,490 2,189,919 71.70%
Cleveland 11,767 4,719,504 2,129,827 45.10%
Buffalo 11,662 2,536,000 2,110,822 83.20%
Providence 10,617 2,168,664 1,921,677 88.60%
Norfolk 9,343 2,140,859 1,691,083 79.00% 2 airports
Cincinnati 7,976 5,416,171 1,443,656 26.70%
Memphis 7,408 4,855,090 1,340,848 27.60%
Oklahoma City 6,763 1,643,426 1,224,103 74.50%
Louisville 6,697 1,593,425 1,212,157 76.10%
Richmond 6,617 1,608,958 1,197,677 74.40%
Birmingham 5,845 1,444,029 1,057,945 73.30%

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-21 16:35:56 and read 5822 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 231):
In terms of a more formal look, here are some O&D numbers, the top 50 cities. There are cities below us that have greater populations....so I just don't get where the under served data comes from other than the belief that Pittsburgh is a lot bigger than it actually is.

Actually the Pittsburgh MSA is larger than every city below it on your list of O&D markets with the exception of Riverside/Ontario. The next 8 O&D markets above Pittsburgh are all smaller than the Pittsburgh MSA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tes_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

So if anything, your data suggests that PIT O&D is indeed suppressed.

The one argument that can be made is that there are a number of markets that are within driving distance, such as DC and CMH. But other than that I still think there is room for more service if the market is further stimulated. Spirit at LBE has proved that.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: steeler83
Posted 2013-02-21 18:31:29 and read 5766 times.

To me, those numbers don't add up. Pittsburgh's total annual traffic is around 8.1 million people. O&D numbers below 4 million per annum with O&D making up roughly 80% of the traffic, I don't know; something seems off to me. IIRC, Total O&D was around the 3.8-4 million range back during the US hub days...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: point2point
Posted 2013-02-21 20:23:58 and read 5720 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 231):
Despite being a less than scientific survey,

Yes..... I'm glad that this is observed, since the data is from a blogger, (probably his/her own work, since I can't find this anywhere else but for below link) citing a table (I think) from which total pax numbers may be derived, but I'm pretty sure that there is a big fundamental error with calculations concerning these O&D numbers.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 233):
To me, those numbers don't add up. Pittsburgh's total annual traffic is around 8.1 million people. O&D numbers below 4 million per annum with O&D making up roughly 80% of the traffic, I don't know; something seems off to me. IIRC, Total O&D was around the 3.8-4 million range back during the US hub days...

A couple of more things ..... the table above is somewhat dated. This data is posted on a blog (where I found it) and the post date was December of 2009, and blogger stated first half 2009 numbers. And I even found the link

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=176627

and can't find this anywhere else.

These numbers are about 5 years old by now, and certainly, we've seen lots of changes these last five years. Also, the link the blogger includes as the basis of his table (which now doesn't work) I believe is to the T-100 table below, but since the link no longer works, I can only assume by the address of the link.

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

Also, we have to remember that this is table uses domestic numbers, and international traffic is omitted. And yes, I also question a lot of the O&D percentages, where in at least some cases are off.... e.g. DEN management has been stating an O&D of at least 50%+ these last few years....... the 40% in this table is waaaay off..... And the NYC airports..... Port Authority info on their web site states O&D at 65% origin/destination. Waaaay off again...... And CLT connects at some 80% of its pax traffic? Wow.... really? I know that CLT does have lots of connects, but maybe approaching 70% is more like it....... anyways.....

Now....if this blogger is calculating domestic numbers only as in Table 6 (even using airport's own websites for further info on O&D) then airports with larger percentages of international pax of course will see a result of higher connect pax numbers then what the reality is....... and although I don't know for a fact what the blogger did to get the calculations that he did, just by looking at the low O&D percentages leads me to believe that the blogger incorrectly calculated his O&D percentages by omitting international pax data in his calculations. And since this is incorrect..... the calculations for total pax numbers may need to be questioned as well.

However, in fairness, this blog table maybe does give a very big, very very broad picture of things..... albeit with a lot of incorrect calculations ...... and I think that it could be used here to make the point of the poster here, and that PIT may be among the more accurate of the data here. The smaller airports without any international pax may be more or less accurate..... to me some just look that way, but I wouldn't personally guarantee it for sure.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 231):
so I just don't get where the under served data comes from other than the belief that Pittsburgh is a lot bigger than it actually is.
Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 231):
The fares were all dirt cheap

And yes, I have to agree that airports may be able to give away free counter space, not charge take-off and landing fees, and even throw in free promotion for the airlines....... and that still may not guarantee them scheduled commercial air carrier service. Wasn't this Mid-American airport near St Louis supposed to do something like that....?...... and we know how well that went.

Lastly, counter-intuitive to the economic law of demand (the less expensive something is, the more of it that will be wanted and purchased, and then vice-versa) the airports that have the highest fees and rates seem to be the ones where the demand is and are generating the highest O&D rates. Isn't that sort of the way things are in the airport industry now?

And lastly lastly..... beware of blogger data.......

 



[Edited 2013-02-21 20:28:39]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-21 21:57:42 and read 5677 times.

On quick glance, the data 'pliersinsight' supplied seems to be only "origin" numbers, or perhaps "destination" numbers, not total O&D. But when making comparisons with other regions its still a good metric.

As far as airports with the highest fees having the most demand, obviously high fee cities such as New York, Miami, Boston are the places airlines want to serve. Keeping things in perspective, when comparing medium non hub cities, then the fees become more of a factor. With that in mind, when an airline with 200 airplanes is looking for a few new routes in medium Midwest cities to put some of those airplanes on, the costs indeed do factor when the other comparative metrics (population, corporate presence, etc) become more and more equal.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-22 06:10:56 and read 5620 times.

Yes, the data is old, but I couldn't find anything better, for or against my point. Let's go to raw numbers of today and screw around with them:

"Four airlines at Pittsburgh International Airport (www.FlyPittsburgh.com) realized year over year (YOY) increases in scheduled passenger traffic for 2012 according to the December 2012 Scheduled Airline Traffic Report, compiled by the Allegheny County Airport Authority. Delta, United, American, and JetBlue reported YOY increases in traffic, while four airlines – US Airways, Delta, Southwest, and United, each reported more than one million passengers each.

More passengers, 2012 vs. 2011:
Delta (1,493,126/1,448,466; 3.1 percent)
United (1,337,134/1,311,784; 1.9 percent)
American (607,188/602,611; 0.8 percent)
JetBlue (274,117/252,362; 8.6 percent)
Among PIT airlines with more than one million passengers, Delta and United totals are listed above while Southwest (1,436,220) and US Airways (2,065,043) are listed here.

A total of 8,011,581 scheduled passengers traveled at the airport for the year compared to 8,268,440 passengers in 2011, which is a 3.1 percent decrease (8,011,581/8,268,440; 3.1 percent). The YOY drop in traffic is reflective of the current state of the aviation industry and is the first since 2009 at Pittsburgh International Airport. Similar sized airports in Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Kansas City and Milwaukee have seen similar or larger decreases as airlines merge and reduce capacity.

In 2013, new flights are arriving at Pittsburgh International Airport. Southwest will launch seasonal daily service to West Palm Beach, FL, on February 14 and will begin daily service to Houston starting April 14. Delta will begin seasonal Saturday nonstop flights to Orlando beginning Feb. 16 and JetBlue will be adding one additional daily flight to Boston on May 1. Delta’s nonstop flight to Paris will resume five days/week on May 11.

For the month, December 2012, scheduled passenger traffic showed a 1.2 percent decrease compared to December 2011 (614,940/622,461; 1.2 percent), with five airlines reporting increased passenger figures."


My question to you guys, how full are these flights, really? Notice how the PIT's own press release lumps PIT with Cincinnati, KC and, *gasp* Milwaukee! So if we look at that in the light of the old, and arguably meh data I posted earlier, maybe not all that much has changed....

Another observation is the business travel climate. Quite a number of businesses in Pittsburgh have their own aircraft for executive travel. UPMC isn't buying seats on the Delta flight to Paris because they are sending teams direct to their destination on their own Global. Same for a lot of for-profit outfits as well. (HA HA!) There seems to be a lot more outfits with jets and other aircraft than there used to be. Sure, there are still other business travelers, but you're losing a good chunk of premium customers to private. I'm fine with that, it makes first affordable on the few flights that have it out of PIT.

Somebody made a good point earlier that a lot of nearby places you can drive to. Philly, Cleveland (why go there?), Baltimore, DC, et cetera. If we left downtown at the same time, one driving and one going out to PIT to check in at the published times, it might be close enough to call it a somewhat fair fight. Especially PHL with the delays. However, I still fly it because it is cheaper to fly than to drive a lot of times. Especially NYC and DC, if you throw in the fact I have to park the sled somewhere. I just booked a DC hop and it was a lot cheaper than driving, including a segment on the way down in first...if we have to sit in the box for an hour at PIT because DCA is jammed up, let it be with free drinks, totally worth another 35 bucks. So who does that lose? The people who complain about gas prices and will cancel a vacation over $20. They would never consider flying is a cheaper option most times, which it generally would be. So again, how is it under served if I can do the trip, out of PIT, chilling the ride (all 25 minutes of it, champagne room is cheaper) in First, for less money than driving? Oh, and the flight at the time of my booking was pretty much empty and totally empty in first.....less than 3 months out.

Of course some of these points are a microcosm, the question is what are the big picture numbers about how full everything is and what is the fare comparison. Regardless of the ticket price, if it is cheaper than driving, that is pretty damn fair. (crappy pun intended) PIT admits a 3% decrease in traffic for 2012, so we shall see. Higher rents and fees mean higher ticket prices, but the prices I'm paying on a vast majority of my tickets are rather inexpensive. If the ACAA lowered the rents and fees, would my ticket prices drop? HA! But you can bet your bottom dollar that if they raised the rents and fees, the fares would go up. So again, airlines bellyaching about rents and fees is just a desire to make more money. Putting the best in research tools to the task, Google, HA, I found lots of newspaper articles in other cities where X airline says X airport charges too much for gates and landing, et cetera. Smear the government in the media that they are killing the airport with their high fees and collect more profits when your campaign works. Capitalism is about supply and demand, it ain't got not time for that! Simply an expansion of a minority view in America that all the government does is tax people who "built it" to death and gives money to people that don't work, but when it comes to needing something, like roads, airports, et cetera the "built it" folks are first in line with their hand out expecting that stuff for free.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-22 15:28:13 and read 5510 times.

Your own experience with ticket prices is very anecdotal. Its February.

There was plenty of discussion about the extremely high cost of tickets to both PHL and NYC in this and perhaps previous threads.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 236):
Notice how the PIT's own press release lumps PIT with Cincinnati, KC and, *gasp* Milwaukee!

This confirms yet again that PIT is under served IMHO. Pittsburgh is larger and has a better economy than all of those.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 236):
But you can bet your bottom dollar that if they raised the rents and fees, the fares would go up

Lets take rents and fees out of it for a moment. If an airline can simply raise fares without losing, it would. The reality is the price elasticity of an airline ticket is already maxed out in a given market. In other words, if an airline raises fares any more, they would lose customers and therefore earn less revenue than if they maintained the price. The turnip has been squeezed of all its blood. So no, an airline won't simply raise its fares because of high airport fees. That is why airport fees are considered a cost to the airline.

This is a major reason PIT has been uncompetitive when attracting new service even with 9 Fortune 500 headquarters, a good economy and an energy boom.

The bit about the use of private jets is not relevant as that is such a small percentage of overall business travel in any market.

[Edited 2013-02-22 16:10:44]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: Cush
Posted 2013-02-23 06:17:56 and read 5412 times.

The control tower at LBE may close... Here are links to the PG and Trib articles. Does this impact Spirit and their growth *long term* at LBE?

trib: http://1iny.com/88999/
pg: http://1iny.com/89000/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: pliersinsight
Posted 2013-02-23 11:15:03 and read 5332 times.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 237):
Your own experience with ticket prices is very anecdotal. Its February.

Do all these under served business travelers only fly in June, July and August? I take a statement like that to mean that Pittsburgh travel is only for holidays and vacations? If the airport is under served, that is a blanket statement, so it is going to have to ring true all the time. I also buy tickets in other months, same story. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky. Could very well be the case as I almost always book at least 60-90 days in advance and avoid holidays.

With respect to use of private aviation, I would not casually dismiss it as insignificant in Western PA. The Fortune 500 companies you alluded to almost all have their own aircraft, some have entire fleets. Their use is not limited to CEOs, either. One of those companies I know for certain does not, for a rather specific reason. They are the exception to the rule. "More flights to more destinations" when it comes to Western PA well served by business jets and king airs. There are way more private jets in Pittsburgh than in the past.

I get what you are saying about the economics of scale and the relationship to the gate fees. However, the ACAA and their airlines have played the same opera on the tarmac ever since Us air pulled out. They pay a lot of people a lot of money for the same consistently poor results. I think a lot of the perception as to what is a baseline level of service was obscured by having all the Us air activity, the BA flight and all that back in the day. None of that activity matched the actual GDP of the city. We may agree to disagree on the service level being proper, but I think it is on par with the GDP of the region.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-23 18:17:52 and read 5265 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 239):
I think a lot of the perception as to what is a baseline level of service was obscured by having all the Us air activity, the BA flight and all that back in the day. None of that activity matched the actual GDP of the city. We may agree to disagree on the service level being proper, but I think it is on par with the GDP of the region.

I agree about the airline activity back in the day not matching the GDP of the region. But the relevant point is to look at how much the GDP has grown in just the past few years. This is a very different Pittsburgh than just 5 years ago. Here are a few charts you might find interesting:

The first one is percentage growth in Pittsburgh's export value over one year, and how it compares to benchmark cities. 25% growth in one year is amazing.


This one shows growth in GDP over one year - 5.5%


If we are to use metropolitan GDP as a metric, then you would expect O&D traffic at PIT to be increasing by the relevant amount. But instead, its been decreasing over the same period.



Anywho, the mineral deal with Consol Energy has been finalized and the ACAA has its $46 million upfront payment.
http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/3...rport-consol-million#axzz2LhhtcSI3

Since royalties won't kick in for 2 years (when the drilling starts), I imagine the ACAA will apply $23 million to this year's budget and $23 million for next year. Just a guess.

[Edited 2013-02-23 18:34:15]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: YNGguins
Posted 2013-02-24 07:44:27 and read 5160 times.

Interesting study out of YNG that shows 60% of the leakage in the Youngstown-Warren-Sharon Leakage area goes to Pittsburgh, while just 18% leaks to Cleveland. This further reinforces what I said earlier of YNG to PIT. If Allegiant continues to grow at YNG and they could attract a second carrier, whether it be Spirit or a legacy, it will effect the PIT numbers quite a bit.

It is clear that PIT has become the dominant airport for travelers in the Mahoning Valley. Interesting read....

See below:


Link: www.vindy.com/news/2013/feb/24/an-up...ted-study-by-a-consultant-working/

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-02-24 19:54:54 and read 5029 times.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 236):
you can drive to. Philly, Cleveland (why go there?)

Philly was 5 hours from my house, Cleveland was 3. If the fare was worth the difference, I would drive to CLE and CAK. I would not drive 5 hours to PHL.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-25 03:55:03 and read 4973 times.

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 241):

It doesn't surprise me one bit that PIT is the preferred airport for Youngstown travelers. But what does surprise me is that DTW pulls almost as many travelers from YNG as CLE? That's driving more than 2 hours past one fortress hub just to catch a flight at another.

[Edited 2013-02-25 04:47:20]

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: tarmacphotos
Posted 2013-02-26 15:40:34 and read 4792 times.

Spirit considering PIT if LBE tower gets closed? I'd like it.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...rit-allegiant-explore-airport.html

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: PITrules
Posted 2013-02-26 16:56:56 and read 4762 times.

I'm not sure why Spirit and Allegiant would feel the need to do that; commercial ops at non towered airports are not uncommon.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: NWADC9
Posted 2013-02-26 17:27:24 and read 4740 times.

They're considering closing YNG's tower? So the TRSA would go away too? And the ASR approaches?   

Regarding the two airlines serving the affected airports, why would they need to consider moving? Sure, a tower is a nice asset, but it isn't a necessity. Other non-towered airports see airline service, so why should YNG and LBE be an exception?

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: YNGguins
Posted 2013-02-26 17:49:38 and read 4734 times.

I highly doubt Spirit is gonna be leaving PIT and Allegiant at YNG. Tons of Allegiant airports have towers on the list to close. Are they all of a sudden going to move out of 15-20 markets??? No.

YNG does not have that much traffic other than the C130s that fly nonstop throughout the day...

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2013-02-27 06:56:41 and read 4629 times.

When they say "close" is it closing fully or just during the night? I know at TOL, they are on the list to close at night, but not during the day...If that's the case, this whole hoopla about airlines not flying to YNG and LBE is moot. Don't get me wrong, I am totally against what is going on here...but the shock and awe and lack of truthfulness in the media is starting to irritate me....

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: atct
Posted 2013-02-27 10:39:01 and read 4555 times.

Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 244):
Spirit considering PIT if LBE tower gets closed? I'd like it.

It has to do with insurance. Airlines do fly to untowered airports but their insurance is higher for said operations. They probably do not have this for airports like LBE or YNG where the tower is operational.

Topic: RE: PIT Update Thread #24
Username: iowaman
Posted 2013-02-27 11:44:08 and read 4555 times.

Due to this thread getting quite lengthy please continue the discussion in part 25:

PIT Update Thread Part 25 (by iowaman Feb 27 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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