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Topic: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: sibille
Posted 2013-02-23 16:16:57 and read 16963 times.

According aviaport.ru, Cubana will receive two Tu-204SM, three Il-96-400 (converted from cargo to fit 350 passengers) and three An-158 (already ordered).
Maybe a second chance for the Tu-204SM after the Red Wings problems and a second chance for the Il-96-400 passengers...........



Here is a google translation of the text :

Russia partially write off the debt of Cuba in the $ 30 billion, and Havana continue purchasing Russian aircraft
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Russia is close to completing negotiations on the settlement of long-term debt outstanding Soviet debtor - Cuba. Debt is estimated at $ 30 billion, part of the sum will be written off, but Cuba will buy Russian Tu-204SM - on Russian loans and under the guarantees.

Russia will write off part of Cuba's Soviet debt and restructure the rest for 10 years. The total amount of debt - $ 30 billion in addition, "Ilyushin Finance" will take loans from Russian banks to provide financial leasing aircraft to Cuba. The relevant agreements were signed on Thursday in Havana after meeting Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and Raul Castro. To determine the amounts written off and refinanced debt was planned before September of this year, said the head of Industry and Trade of Russia Denis Manturov.

Negotiations to settle the Cuban debt stalled in the mid-2000s. Moscow then evaluated the debt at $ 16-25 billion, and the debt is not recognized Havana. As a result, in 2006 Russia's Finance Ministry said the talks are postponed indefinitely. Then during a visit to Cuba by Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov Havana gave another loan of $ 350 million, and the debt - $ 160 million - was allowed to pay for 10 years with a grace period of four years.

Cuba - the largest debtor Russia since Soviet times. In the 2000s, Moscow forgave debts of several countries, including Iraq, Libya, Mongolia, Syria, Afghanistan.

In addition, Russia is modernizing fleet Cuba and give her including Tu-204SM, have yet to complete testing and certification. Previously, Cuba had already purchased three An-158, another three signed an option: these ships will be commissioned in March, June and August. Agreement on financial leasing, will deliver three Il-96-400 in the build up to 350 seats. They will be remade from the cargo version, explained Manturov. Under the delivery of planes "Ilyushin Finance" under the state guarantees of the Russian government will take the credit in Russian banks, which the Cuban side will repay over 10 years. The air fleet of the airline Cubana de Aviacion has also added two Tu-204SM. In addition, Havana buy parts for the maintenance of existing aircraft in service.

The total value of the contracts for the supply of Russian planes to Cuba - about $ 650 million

Now Cubana de Aviacion fleet consists of 12 passenger aircraft, including two Il-96-300 and two Tu-204-100E. IL-96-300 were purchased in 2004 for $ 110 million and 85% was financed by a loan Roseximbank.

Medvedev's visit to Havana began with a traditional foreign leaders laying wreaths at the monument to the revolution hero Jose Marti. The talks were held in a palace revolution (the Russian delegation admitted they feel the spirit of Soviet times).

Foreign leaders come to Cuba is not often, except for treatment with cancer of the Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

At the signing ceremony Castro tried to show special favor to Moscow. "Hello, comrades," - he said to the audience before the signing ceremony. It looks like he just remembered this phrase: goodbye to Cuban leader also said hello to all.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-23 16:20:51 and read 16960 times.

Quoting sibille (Thread starter):
three Il-96-400 (converted from cargo to fit 350 passengers)

converted FROM Cargo? I've never heard of this happening in my entire life. Were these originally delivered as cargo jets? What about the windows?

-Zach

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-02-23 16:30:55 and read 16888 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
converted FROM Cargo? I've never heard of this happening in my entire life.

I've read that the last two DC-10 built were freighter for FedEx, but since the company canceled the order for these two, they were converted to PAX and sold to BG and WG. Note sure if they were complete when the order was canceled. This could be a precedent.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: sibille
Posted 2013-02-23 16:36:08 and read 16846 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Quoting sibille (Thread starter):
three Il-96-400 (converted from cargo to fit 350 passengers)

converted FROM Cargo? I've never heard of this happening in my entire life. Were these originally delivered as cargo jets? What about the windows?

-Zach

And I think the Saha 707 wich are currently flying as passenger aircrafts were previously flying as tankers for Iranian airforce....... So, everything's possible  

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Bureaucromancer
Posted 2013-02-23 18:03:32 and read 16585 times.

Aren't the windows on even factory cargo aircraft generally just plugged to avoid having redesign the fuse without frames for them?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2013-02-23 18:23:03 and read 16507 times.

How about any orders for the SSJ? Seems like it would be perfect for intra-carribean flights and to northern South America. Even to the US if the embargo ever gets lifted!  But it really is nice to see more orders for more Russian jets.

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 4):
Aren't the windows on even factory cargo aircraft generally just plugged to avoid having redesign the fuse without frames for them?

No. You can tell new cargo aircraft have a seamless fuselage. Like factory made MD11s and even new 777Fs. You can tell they are conversions when the windows are plugged, which you can se on some FX planes.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Kroychik


Just forward of the "F" in Fedex you can see some window plugs.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: irshava
Posted 2013-02-23 18:30:14 and read 16459 times.

Quoting sibille (Thread starter):
An-158 (already ordered)

Antonov aircraft are Ukrainian-made.  

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-02-23 19:13:31 and read 16303 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
converted FROM Cargo? I've never heard of this happening in my entire life. Were these originally delivered as cargo jets? What about the windows?

I'm assuming you can't just whip out a Sawzall and go at it.

[Edited 2013-02-23 19:13:59]

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-02-23 20:11:23 and read 16162 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7):
I'm assuming you can't just whip out a Sawzall and go at it.

Well obviously it's more complicated than that   

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: N747PE
Posted 2013-02-23 20:26:18 and read 16100 times.

Nice to see they are getting new equipment

[Edited 2013-02-23 20:28:18]

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: kiwirob
Posted 2013-02-24 00:50:06 and read 15683 times.

Quoting irshava (Reply 6):

Antonov aircraft are Ukrainian-made.

But these ones are built by United Aircraft Corporation in Voronezh Russia  

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: TC957
Posted 2013-02-24 01:42:33 and read 15089 times.

I'm wondering if the IL96-400 will have the range to do HAV - MAD/CDG/LGW direct, let alone HAV - SVO.
Agree that the SSJ100 should have been a useful addition to their domestic and local Caribbean services.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: hotplane
Posted 2013-02-24 02:32:32 and read 14500 times.

Will the ll-96s be new build's or from Polet (who have four at present)?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: CrimsonNL
Posted 2013-02-24 02:33:19 and read 14500 times.

So where are these -400's coming from then? As far as I know the only airline flying the -400 freighter is Polet..

Martijn

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-02-24 02:43:10 and read 14371 times.

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 13):
As far as I know the only airline flying the -400 freighter is Polet..

Maybe there are some white tails.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Max Q
Posted 2013-02-24 04:16:32 and read 13401 times.

As long as they have those little electric fans in the Cockpit they'll be good..

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: pvjin
Posted 2013-02-24 04:23:26 and read 13325 times.

That sounds awesome. When I finish my education around here and can finally travel as much as I want I'm sure going to visit Cuba again and fly there using this rare Russian metal.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: ajhYXE
Posted 2013-02-24 04:32:13 and read 13211 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Well obviously it's more complicated than that

Many early 747 operators chose to modify their aircraft by adding windows to the upper deck. However I would imagine adding windows down the entire length of the passenger compartment and the need to install additional doors may complicate the process considerably.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: JU068
Posted 2013-02-24 04:58:39 and read 12910 times.

Where would these birds fly to?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: hotplane
Posted 2013-02-24 05:22:31 and read 12638 times.

Il-96 to London again?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Newark727
Posted 2013-02-24 08:22:47 and read 10687 times.

Turning a cargo aircraft into a passenger one is unusual but not completely unprecedented, there are the 747-400 combis being turned into full passenger configuration and various high-wing military transports carrying rows of seats at least on a temporary basis. Though it could also mean converting the Il-96-400 cargo design into a passenger aircraft, right? One other thing is that as far as I'm aware all Il-96-400s currently built are already flying for Polet Airlines, so presumably they would have some level of input upon this whole process. 

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-24 08:37:52 and read 10462 times.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 5):
How about any orders for the SSJ? Seems like it would be perfect for intra-carribean flights and to northern South America. Even to the US if the embargo ever gets lifted! But it really is nice to see more orders for more Russian jets.
Quoting TC957 (Reply 11):
Agree that the SSJ100 should have been a useful addition to their domestic and local Caribbean services.

The Superjet has a lot of western technology in it, including things from US suppliers such as Honeywell, BE Aerospace, and Hamilton Sundstrand. Other western suppliers such as Thales and Snecma also might not be comfortable with Cubana getting the SSJ if it causes issues with their US operations.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: cubastar
Posted 2013-02-24 11:18:45 and read 8733 times.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 16):
and fly there using this rare Russian metal.

Okay, just a little "tongue in cheek" question. What are we going to call an airline's B787 (positively assuming they return to flight soon) or the A350? Boeing/Airbus Carbon/Plastic/Fiber?   

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: jetjeanes
Posted 2013-02-24 11:29:06 and read 8592 times.

I wonder if these new planes will finally have Aol dial up for IFE,s  

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: JAGflyer
Posted 2013-02-24 11:37:02 and read 8476 times.

Could the Sukhoi Superjet be a possibility for Cuba? It seems like it would fit the bill for 2-3 hour flights to surrounding countries. Is it ETOPS certified?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-24 11:59:11 and read 8504 times.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 24):
Could the Sukhoi Superjet be a possibility for Cuba? It seems like it would fit the bill for 2-3 hour flights to surrounding countries. Is it ETOPS certified?

As I mentioned before, the amount of US content in the SSJ probably makes it a no-go.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: AllegiantFlyer
Posted 2013-02-24 13:10:16 and read 7755 times.

More carriers should get Russian built aircraft.They are so much better looking in my opinion and have a strong curb appeal.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Trijetsonly
Posted 2013-02-24 13:55:26 and read 7360 times.

Will that be the first ever IL-96-400, used as a passenger plane?

I'm pretty sure now, where to spend my holidays (again) when they receive their first new Ilyushin.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Newark727
Posted 2013-02-24 20:42:20 and read 5544 times.

Quoting Trijetsonly (Reply 27):
Will that be the first ever IL-96-400, used as a passenger plane?

As far as I'm aware. They have the Il-96-300 already, and in the mid-90s various ideas were floated for a longer Il-96 with Western gear, but the only commercial -400s I know of have been freighters.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: UA735WL
Posted 2013-02-24 20:58:47 and read 5513 times.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 28):

There actually was a stretched Il-96 variant with western avionics & engines. ...it was called the Il-96M. The only example built was a rebuild of the prototype Il-96-300 using PW2037s & Honeywell avionics. It also incorporated a two-person cockpit. The program was eventually canceled...I believe it was due to problems associated with importing the equipment. Sad, really.... interesting aircraft. The current Il-96-400 actually uses the same basic airframe, but with Russian-made engines/avionics.


Cheers  

Jonas

[Edited 2013-02-24 21:00:14]

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Newark727
Posted 2013-02-24 21:19:17 and read 5456 times.

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 29):
There actually was a stretched Il-96 variant with western avionics & engines. ...it was called the Il-96M. The only example built was a rebuild of the prototype Il-96-300 using PW2037s & Honeywell avionics. It also incorporated a two-person cockpit. The program was eventually canceled...I believe it was due to problems associated with importing the equipment. Sad, really.... interesting aircraft. The current Il-96-400 actually uses the same basic airframe, but with Russian-made engines/avionics.

That's basically how I understood it, but information about Russian aviation programs can be a bit murky so I didn't want to suggest I had a definitive answer. So thanks.  

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: AirbusA6
Posted 2013-02-25 04:29:40 and read 5012 times.

What a bizarre state of affairs when Cubana is 'forced' to buy Russian airliners that Russian airlines barely want either!

At least in the old days, the Il-62s and Tu-154s were common planes in the Eastern Bloc, so parts were easy to find.

Will the Il-96-400s have the upgraded PS-90A2 engines, with some Pratt components, or they off limit?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: enilria
Posted 2013-02-25 07:00:10 and read 4770 times.

Previously I would never have considered flying on Cubana and now I would not even want my corpse transported on Cubana.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Quoting sibille (Thread starter):
three Il-96-400 (converted from cargo to fit 350 passengers)

converted FROM Cargo? I've never heard of this happening in my entire life. Were these originally delivered as cargo jets? What about the windows?

"Comrade, you not need windows. Window for pu$%ies".

Quoting AllegiantFlyer (Reply 26):

More carriers should get Russian built aircraft.They are so much better looking in my opinion and have a strong curb appeal.

ROTFL

All those engines improve resale value?

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: pvjin
Posted 2013-02-25 07:19:31 and read 4700 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 32):
Previously I would never have considered flying on Cubana and now I would not even want my corpse transported on Cubana.

Why not? They are not any less safe than western made jets, they look more interesting and have nice friendly Cuban cabin crew and destination or origin would be the most awesome country in the world. What more can one ask for?

I would choose any exotic jet, let it be Saha Air 707, Cubana Il-96, Ukraine International AN-148 or Air Koryo Il-62 any day over typical boring modern Boeing/Airbus/Embraer/CRJ.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-02-25 07:31:07 and read 4635 times.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 20):
Turning a cargo aircraft into a passenger one is unusual but not completely unprecedented, there are the 747-400 combis being turned into full passenger configuration

Combis were designed to permit that.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 33):
Why not? They are not any less safe than western made jets

If you do some further research I think you will find that's not correct.

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: pvjin
Posted 2013-02-25 07:40:49 and read 4599 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
If you do some further research I think you will find that's not correct.

Majority of the crashes have been caused by either human error or bad maintenance. Especially old soviet birds have been operated in very harsh conditions compared to western jets in western world, and then later because of cheap price they have been flown a lot by poor airlines in developing countries, airlines with safety culture that would bring down any western jet too.

If maintained and flown properly they shouldn't be any less safe than their western made counterparts, especially there more modern design planes such as IL-96.

And anyway even with the worst airlines in the world chances of your flight being an accident flight are very very small (unless you fly frequently with them). So why worry?

I think I would feel particularly safe in Cubana plane knowing that the airline is state backed and thus most likely it doesn't have to cut corners by making pilots fly too much or not maintaining their planes properly like many western airlines do to make profit.

[Edited 2013-02-25 07:42:52]

Topic: RE: New Russian Fleet For Cubana
Username: TK1244
Posted 2013-02-25 07:45:24 and read 4591 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
If you do some further research I think you will find that's not correct.

So tell us, what makes Russian planes less safe compared to their western counterparts???

They are less efficient? Yes
They have bad after sales support? Yes
They are less safe compared to western counterparts? I don't think so...


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