Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5700666/

Topic: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: 9MMAR
Posted 2013-02-25 14:33:15 and read 13633 times.

In relation to QF-EK code share, as per GDS today, BA flight numbers appear on CX flights to BNE, CNS, MEL, SYD and PER.

Could we conclude that BA has signed up CX to fill in the void left by QF and that MH and future oneworld-BA-sponsored member QR have simply missed the ship?

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: shilenb
Posted 2013-02-25 14:38:10 and read 13637 times.

This is a surprise, I thought CX weren't so keen on code-sharing with other Oneworld partners

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: NZ107
Posted 2013-02-25 14:42:48 and read 13589 times.

Quoting 9MMAR (Thread starter):
BA-sponsored member QR have simply missed the ship?

I doubt it - CX serves SYD, BNE, CNS, MEL, ADL and PER.. Whereas QR only serves PER and MEL right at this point in time. CX has a far wider reach. The fact that BA can still get customers to fly on their HKG-LHR sectors (they have no services to KUL) might be part of it.

A little shame there's no reciprocal codeshare on BA's SYD-SIN route  

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: avek00
Posted 2013-02-25 14:48:51 and read 13505 times.

Quoting shilenb (Reply 1):

This is a surprise, I thought CX weren't so keen on code-sharing with other Oneworld partners

There's no such thing as conventional wisdom in the consolidating airline business.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-25 15:31:11 and read 13130 times.

Quoting shilenb (Reply 1):
This is a surprise, I thought CX weren't so keen on code-sharing with other Oneworld partners

CX already has a code-share relationship with BA. CX also code-shares with oneworld members AA, JAL, LAN, etc.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: crAAzy
Posted 2013-02-25 15:33:24 and read 13119 times.

This is great news and actually a better overall move for OW in general as it provides significantly more options and connections traveling between Europe and Australia than what QF/BA had out of SIN as long as the flights are timed correctly. Hopefully given the number of flights BA/CX have between LHR-HKG they can optimize transfers for their flyers - dare I say even codeshare on the route.

Additionally, I'm hoping this partnership will push CX to return at least some F class into the Australian market.

Finally, I'm wondering if this doesn't mean we're closer to seeing the end of BA SIN-SYD?

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-02-25 15:39:44 and read 13043 times.

Quoting avek00 (Reply 3):
There's no such thing as conventional wisdom in the consolidating airline business.

        

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-02-25 16:23:29 and read 12765 times.

Quoting 9MMAR (Thread starter):
BA flight numbers appear on CX flights to BNE, CNS, MEL, SYD and PER.

PER is interesting, as going from PER to LHR via HKG involves quite a detour. That said, the new QF times on PER-SIN are less than useless for BA. BA11 connects to QF78 in 3:05, which is fine for LHR-SIN-PER, but going the other way the layover in SIN between QF77 and BA12 is 7.5 hours

The CX times via HKG are just are worse, though. The flights don't connect daily given CX's split times on HKG-PER. On the days that they do connect it is 5.5 hrs for LHR-HKG-PER and 8 hrs for PER-HKG-LHR

As for the CX connections to other destinations, they are about 2 hrs each way for LHR-HKG-SYD and LHR-HKG-MEL, but about 5 hours each way for LHR-HKG-BNE and LHR-HKG-CNS. These will be OK, even for BNE. While 5 hours isn't ideal I would guess that most of the traffic that BA carry to BNE is mostly leisure/VFR anyway so schedule is less important.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: QFVHOQA
Posted 2013-02-25 16:24:22 and read 12755 times.

This is a good move for BA, as the QF SIN schedules will no longer be well-timed for connections to LHR. I suppose they didn't go with MH because CX serves all the major cities at least daily. I don't think it spells the end for BA metal SIN-SYD, but it opens the door for the possibility.

But I wonder if it is counter-intuitive for BA to pass on pax to CX. Pax may find that CX is better and just fly them all the way LHR-HKG-Australia.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: CXfirst
Posted 2013-02-25 18:03:23 and read 12390 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
The CX times via HKG are just are worse, though. The flights don't connect daily given CX's split times on HKG-PER. On the days that they do connect it is 5.5 hrs for LHR-HKG-PER and 8 hrs for PER-HKG-LHR

CX is making PER double daily, so the connection will work each day. However, I agree, the times are less than ideal. Perhaps CX will tweak them, although I don't really see why they would, as the current times do work for CX to CX connections to LHR.

-CXfirst

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: airpearl
Posted 2013-02-25 19:25:11 and read 12094 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
PER is interesting, as going from PER to LHR via HKG involves quite a detour.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
Whereas QR only serves PER and MEL right at this point in time

PER could be an ideal candidate for a BA/QR codeshare then. With BA's own limited service to Australia, I wouldn't be surprised if it decides to codeshare on some of QR's and MH's services as well. Nothing in the new BA/CX arrangement suggests that it will be an exclusive relationship.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-25 19:25:31 and read 12094 times.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
A little shame there's no reciprocal codeshare on BA's SYD-SIN route

Why should BA operate LHR-SIN-SYD when BA could operate LHR-HKG-XXX...  
Overall I believe that this new code-share agreement is a positive step towards closer cooperation between BA and CX; especially since QF ditched BA for EK. It will also benefit business passengers and oneworld frequent flyers.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 5):
Hopefully given the number of flights BA/CX have between LHR-HKG they can optimize transfers for their flyers - dare I say even codeshare on the route.

Now that would be a very interesting development. BA operates LHR-HKG 2x daily and CX will increase frequency on the HKG-LHR route to 5x daily.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: NZ107
Posted 2013-02-25 20:02:21 and read 11913 times.

Quoting airpearl (Reply 10):

Indeed. They're all in Oneworld together (soon at least anyway). And I highly doubt there'd be such restrictions on the codeshare. It makes for a better looking network if you have more codeshares!

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
Now that would be a very interesting development.

CX to T5?  

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2013-02-25 20:12:26 and read 11864 times.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 5):
Hopefully given the number of flights BA/CX have between LHR-HKG they can optimize transfers for their flyers - dare I say even codeshare on the route.

I'm not sure that this would ever get regulatory approval. While it sounds nice, it give OW something like 95% market share on LHR-HKG.

BA and CX will have to remain competitors on this route.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-25 20:25:19 and read 11804 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I'm not sure that this would ever get regulatory approval. While it sounds nice, it give OW something like 95% market share on LHR-HKG.

Are you suggesting that BA and CX would not be permitted to code-share on their respective services between LHR and HKG?

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2013-02-25 21:07:11 and read 11535 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
Are you suggesting that BA and CX would not be permitted to code-share on their respective services between LHR and HKG?

I'd say that is definitely his suggestion. 2 carriers, namely QF and Air NZ have pulled off this route, leaving Cathay King (4 times daily or something crazy like that) and BA and a lone Virgin Atlantic flight that continues onto sydney (so a percentage of that flight, maybe has high has half the aircraft, maybe more, will not be competing on LHR-HKG. It was different in the days of NZ and QF on it, but now, not a chance in hell of that one getting up. Not unless Virgin drastically ramped up competition, and that will be hard without the hub feed.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-02-25 23:47:55 and read 10108 times.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
I'd say that is definitely his suggestion. 2 carriers, namely QF and Air NZ have pulled off this route, leaving Cathay King (4 times daily or something crazy like that) and BA and a lone Virgin Atlantic flight that continues onto sydney (so a percentage of that flight, maybe has high has half the aircraft, maybe more, will not be competing on LHR-HKG. It was different in the days of NZ and QF on it, but now, not a chance in hell of that one getting up.

It is unfortunate that neither QF or NZ could not make a profit on the route and decided to eventually drop the route. The fact of the matter is that they had their fair chance, but couldn't operate the route profitably like BA and CX. However, IMO it is unfair to block a hypothetical code-share agreement between two carriers that belong to the same alliance on the route. Remember a code-share agreement is just that; it does not necessarily mean it is a JBA like QF had with BA. For example, look at the code-share between QF and LA between SYD and SCL. VS continues to operate LHR-HKG-SYD, perhaps BA may want to operate LHR-HKG-SYD and CX may want to code-share with BA on such a route. Only time will tell. Regardless, it is clear that BA and CX see value in strengthening cooperation with each other in order to counter the QF/EK alliance.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: migair54
Posted 2013-02-25 23:49:09 and read 10088 times.

I think this is the logic move for BA... as some people had said before MH has not enough presence and name in the UK or Australia like CX or BA, so right now is more logic to codeshare with CX.

In a few years i´m sure we will see BA doing something like EK-QF with QR, because it will be much bigger partner, and not only for Australia, but for India, Middle East, Pakistan, Iran,.... so it will be a big blast for BA, given that they can´t serve many of that destinations even if they want due to the slot constraint at LHR. So i´m sure we will see a further expansion in Australia for QR and maybe a new flight from BA to operate DOH direct and not via BAH.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-26 00:22:34 and read 9679 times.

This certainly has to be a kick in the guts for QF considering CX wasn't interested in getting cosy... Then again we don't really know why the relationship between the 2 has always been sour...

Would this mean BA are moving their Australiasia hub from SIN to HKG...?

EK413

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: vhtje
Posted 2013-02-26 00:22:56 and read 9679 times.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 8):
Pax may find that CX is better and just fly them all the way LHR-HKG-Australia.

That may well be, but I always find them eye-wateringly expensive. I can usually get a fare around £3,000-£3,500 in J on QF/BA (and slightly less on AY) but I can never get a fare quote of less than £4,500 on CX. Terrific as they are - and I do want to try to the new J class one day, I didn't like the Coffin Experience one iota - that £1,500 difference (x2!) buys an awful lot of fine dinning experiences in SYD.

Perhaps with these new BA codeshares some bargains might be had, particularly if booked through BA? We've already booked for Christmas 2013 on AY though, so perhaps next time.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: CCA
Posted 2013-02-26 00:34:36 and read 9528 times.

The end of the BA/QF tie up left BA with little to no impact in Australia, the tie up with CX gives them all the major cities (who wants to go to Adelaide    ).

Quote:
British Airways from 31MAR13 is expanding codeshare service with Cathay Pacific, where “BA” code appears on selected Cathay Pacific’s Australia service.

Reservation for codeshare service opens today (25FEB13).

British Airways operated by Cathay Pacific

Hong Kong – Brisbane

Hong Kong – Brisbane – Cairns – Hong Kong

Hong Kong – Melbourne

Hong Kong – Perth

Hong Kong – Sydney

CX Adelaide service currently not displaying BA code.

.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: MAS777
Posted 2013-02-26 03:19:59 and read 8061 times.

There will also be a codeshare arrangement currently being negotiated with Malaysia Airlines by British Airways.

Whether Australia/NZ is included in this code-share with MH remains to be seen but i expect both parties would be keen to do this as it provides better choices and connections for passengers of both carriers.

BA and MH - I believe - are in the final stages of launching a codeshare agreement that will include Brunei, Kota Kinabalu, Kuching, Miri, Penang and Langkawi as some of the initial destinations. I expect Jakarta, Denpasar, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, Phnom Penh, Phuket and other Southeast Asian cities are being worked on next.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: VV701
Posted 2013-02-26 03:45:36 and read 7827 times.

Quoting shilenb (Reply 1):
I thought CX weren't so keen on code-sharing with other Oneworld partners

This is an oft repeated myth. CX code-share to 76 different destinations around the world excluding those served by subsidiary Dragonair and the ten destinations where CX code share on the French high speed railway system. Most but not all of their code share flights are operated by their oneworld partners. So, for example, they have code-share flights with AA to 26 destinations in the USA.

You will find a full CX destination list here with the code-share destinations marked with an asterisk:

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/helpingyoutravel/destinations

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-26 04:00:28 and read 7648 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):

Lets not forget they code share on LA SYD-AKL-SCL & beyond...

EK413

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2013-02-26 07:15:31 and read 6240 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):


This is an oft repeated myth.

Indeed, the main problem seems to be with QF. Too close (geographically) for comfort perhaps? It seems the two could have created quite the Asia/Pacific powerhouse if they could have put egos aside for the greater good of OW. But alas...

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-02-26 07:45:49 and read 6128 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 24):
Indeed, the main problem seems to be with QF. Too close (geographically) for comfort perhaps? It seems the two could have created quite the Asia/Pacific powerhouse if they could have put egos aside for the greater good of OW. But alas...

The only thing that QF would really bring to such a deal is their frequent flyer base, which CX already has virtually unrestricted access to through Oneworld.

CX has taken full advantage of that access to build themselves in the market out of Australia, which I imagine has frustrated QF greatly. Other airlines (like SQ and EK) have been unable to build a dominating premium presence because they lack premium/corporate frequent flyer access, so have had to negotiate for it. CX never needed to. They were able to grow to become that powerhouse with sharing the profits with QF.

In any case, any deal would have been pretty limited (for all the same reasons that CX and BA would never get a JV).

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: eljonno
Posted 2013-02-26 13:40:45 and read 3580 times.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 8):
But I wonder if it is counter-intuitive for BA to pass on pax to CX. Pax may find that CX is better and just fly them all the way LHR-HKG-Australia.

I would fly FR to Australia, over CX if I had to. To be honest I have never been so insulted in my life as I was by the way I was treated by their cabin crew and ground staff in HKG and LHR: so for me it's a no brainer...BA win.

Quoting CCA (Reply 20):
The end of the BA/QF tie up left BA with little to no impact in Australia, the tie up with CX gives them all the major cities (who wants to go to Adelaide    ).

Why does everyone hate on ADL? It is far more beautiful than Brisbane; has far better weather than Melbourne and is far less stressful than Sydney. It's actually quite perfect IMHO.

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: CCA
Posted 2013-02-26 14:15:24 and read 3266 times.

Quoting eljonno (Reply 26):
I would fly FR to Australia, over CX if I had to. To be honest I have never been so insulted in my life as I was by the way I was treated by their cabin crew and ground staff in HKG and LHR: so for me it's a no brainer...BA win

What happened?

Topic: RE: BA Chooses CX As Code Share Partner To Australia
Username: eljonno
Posted 2013-02-26 15:04:41 and read 2997 times.

Quoting CCA (Reply 27):
What happened?

I found the conduct of the in-flight crew to be very inattentive and quite rude to be honest and (over a month later) no one from the airline has contacted me in response to my enquiries concerning missing luggage. Unfortunately, almost every single person I spoke to, who represents Cathay Pacific, gave me the distinct impression that they believed passengers could only possibly exist to annoy them. I know that four flights are not representative of the whole airline, but sadly, bad impressions stick.

[Edited 2013-02-26 15:07:25]


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/