Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5700715/

Topic: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: BOAC911
Posted 2013-02-25 16:01:29 and read 12697 times.

According to various websites and sources, LOT has three 767-300 in its fleet. Could someone on here explain to me how they can run the current intercontinental schedule with just 3 767s? New York (more than 1x daily), Chicago more that 1x daily, Toronto more than 7x weekly, and Peking (3x weekly) Do they have more some leased equipment? Any info is greatly appreciated.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2013-02-25 16:17:42 and read 12667 times.

Airfleets shows 4 B763's active for LO

MSN LN Type Delivery date Registration Remark
24843 314 767-341ERF 06/07/2005 SP-LPE
24865 322 767-35DER 29/03/2000 SP-LPA Named Warszawa
26263 592 767-306ER 10/01/2010 SP-LPG lsd from ILFC - Named "city Of Vancouver"
27902 577 767-35DER 25/11/2005 SP-LPB Named Gdansk

Wasn't some of the service suspended until the B788's come back online?

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: mke717spotter
Posted 2013-02-25 16:36:37 and read 12595 times.

Quoting BOAC911 (Thread starter):
Could someone on here explain to me how they can run the current intercontinental schedule with just 3 767s? New York (more than 1x daily), Chicago more that 1x daily, Toronto more than 7x weekly, and Peking (3x weekly)


Are you sure those are the frequencies for right now? Because what you posted would seem to be more in line with their usual summer schedule.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
Wasn't some of the service suspended until the B788's come back online?


I believe they announced that the 787s are being held out of the schedule until October, though you'd have to think that if Boeing can get the issue resolved by the summer time then they'd probably insert them back in ASAP.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Thomas_Jaeger
Posted 2013-02-25 17:31:54 and read 12407 times.

SP-LPA had been temporarily on the ground and it was expected it would not fly again but obviously everything has changed now. They would have needed five B787-8s this summer if I interpret their schedule correctly, so with four B767-300ERs have a problem already. As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:
PEK: 5x weekly
ORD: 11x weekly
JFK: 11x weekly
YYZ: 8x weekly

Total of 35 weekly flights of 5 per day.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-25 17:37:30 and read 12375 times.

With the 787 being grounded it sounds like LOT has made leasing arrangements for extra airplanes this summer.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: WROORD
Posted 2013-02-25 18:32:37 and read 12241 times.

Their new CEO has said that they cannot afford to operate on a month to month basis and so they are assuming that 787s will not fly till October. With that said they are leasing 5 frames to cover their schedule. He did say that should 787 become available sooner they will make the schedule adjustments.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2013-02-25 19:14:50 and read 12142 times.

Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-25 19:22:21 and read 12108 times.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.

Doesn't really help LOT all that much. For starters they don't need to cancel the 787 to get compensation. The 787 issues will probably be sorted well before LOT could get any new A330s (Airbus doesn't really have those lying around), and then they just put themselves completely behind the competition in terms of having next generation aircraft (and LOT needs all the help they can get on their intercontinental routes). Also between the 787 and the A350 the 787 is a better fit sizewise for LOT.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Asiaflyer
Posted 2013-02-25 19:22:59 and read 12108 times.

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 3):
As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:


There is an updated schedule for LOT here: http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/25/lo-787-s13cxld/
It shows the increase from 3 to 5 weekly to PEK being cancelled.

[Edited 2013-02-25 19:23:32]

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-02-26 04:13:38 and read 11456 times.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.

You don't make a 20 year purchasing decision because the "new" plane has a development problem. The A330 is not the panacea to all 787 ills, as somewant to believe.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Azure
Posted 2013-02-26 05:13:43 and read 11270 times.

The 787 fiasco led LOT to extend the lease agreement for 3 767s and to lease 2 more for the summer season.
The remaining 3 787s out of the 6 ordered were expected to join the fleet before the summer...
Bad news for LOT which will announce a bailout plan in march...

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: BOAC911
Posted 2013-02-26 09:02:33 and read 9136 times.

Thanks for all the info. I suspected it had to be more than three 767s

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: winstonlegthigh
Posted 2013-02-26 10:50:03 and read 8064 times.

On the topic of LOT, something has been bothering me for quite a while: Sometime in the '90's we flew ORD to either WAW or KRK (pretty sure it was Warsaw though) - and I could have sworn that our plane had some sort of special livery. IIRC the navy/dark blue aspects of the standard livery were colorful. The white remained white. I've scoured Google for anything, but have had no luck. Any help?

A fond childhood memory of mine was being invited into the cockpit as we cruised over the Atlantic. Time has changed so much since then...

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-02-26 20:44:37 and read 5487 times.

Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 12):

I believe LO had leased 767s from NZ during summer seasons, it was winter and low season in New Zealand...

I remember seeing kinda LO tail while the cheatline was from NZ... So you might have seen some light "greenish" colours of NZ livery at that time..

Regards,
LO231

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: EK413
Posted 2013-02-26 21:54:31 and read 5436 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 7):
The 787 issues will probably be sorted well before LOT could get any new A330s (Airbus doesn't really have those lying around)

Perhaps they can get their hands on the engineless ex-Kingfisher A332's which are sitting around @ ZRH...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
You don't make a 20 year purchasing decision because the "new" plane has a development problem. The A330 is not the panacea to all 787 ills, as somewant to believe.

Certainly solved the issue @ JQ but on the other hand now QF are probably going to be stuck with the B763 fleet for a while longer if the B787 grounding isn't resolved...

EK413

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: winstonlegthigh
Posted 2013-02-27 06:19:51 and read 5125 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 13):
I remember seeing kinda LO tail while the cheatline was from NZ... So you might have seen some light "greenish" colours of NZ livery at that time..

Regards,
LO231

That would make perfect sense, I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating. Thanks.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-02-27 06:26:34 and read 5101 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Perhaps they can get their hands on the engineless ex-Kingfisher A332's which are sitting around @ ZRH...

Some of those are/were destined to go to Arik Air, but the deal may have fallen through. There is also the issue that LOT doesn't have trained A330 pilots or anything, so immediately adding A330s to the fleet (only to get rid of them when the 787 problems clear up) is not the best long term strategy.

Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 15):
That would make perfect sense, I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating. Thanks.

Was this it?:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages



Interestingly enough LOT ended up leasing one of their 767s to NZ around the turn of the century.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: dtfg
Posted 2013-02-27 16:19:52 and read 4689 times.

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 3):
SP-LPA had been temporarily on the ground and it was expected it would not fly again but obviously everything has changed now. They would have needed five B787-8s this summer if I interpret their schedule correctly, so with four B767-300ERs have a problem already. As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:
PEK: 5x weekly
ORD: 11x weekly
JFK: 11x weekly
YYZ: 8x weekly

Total of 35 weekly flights of 5 per day.

Originally they planned to add PEK to 5 weekly with new 787 but due to the delay of the aircraft they have cancelled the plan, and this route will still be operated by 767 on the 3 weekly basis before the arrival of their 787s.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-03-02 15:48:13 and read 4306 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 15):
Quoting Polot (Reply 16):

You are welcome, one of our friends posted picture of LO NZ 762, they used to exchange planes summer/winter seasons betwen Poland/New Zealand...

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-03-03 00:15:46 and read 4100 times.

Please tell me they're not going bust........,

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-03-03 01:09:27 and read 4029 times.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order

Isn't LOT suspending 787 services until October?

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 17):
To the point of the 787 grounding on schedules, ANA, which launched multiple new routes including Seattle and San Jose with the Dreamliner, is cancelling them at least until the end of May completely.

LAN has cancelled all 787 services until July! It's unfortunate that the grounding of the 787s has caused numerous airlines to cancel new routes and has forced certain airlines to reduce frequencies on existing routes. However, certain airline(s) made the decision to rapidly phase out their B763s as soon as they received or planned to receive their 787s. These airline(s) knew that there would be "teething problems" with the 787s during the first few months as well. Luckily certain airline(s) had contingency plans in place before they even received their 787s and decided to use a conservative approach during their first year of 787 operations. Regardless, these airlines deserve and will most likely receive compensation for the grounding of the 787s. I would imagine that LOT will receive compensation for the grounding of their 787s; as well as for the delayed deliveries of the 787s that are sitting idle at KPAE.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-03-03 01:38:15 and read 3980 times.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 20):
Please tell me they're not going bust........,

If you are not mentally prepared for it yet, it's time to do it.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: konrad
Posted 2013-03-03 01:39:15 and read 3978 times.

LOT took large risks as they put all their chicken in one basket.

To turn around the company they advertised their long-haul fleet renewal a lot. It was supposed to bring new quality and new, higher-yielding passengers to their services. Their fleet replacement plan was nothing but most ambitious. With the first dreamliner delivered in November and first european training flights starting in December they planned to have an all-dreamliner fleet of 5 aircraft operating from April on. The 767s were supposed to be gone by the end of March. No other airline introducing the dreamliner was planning on getting rid of all other long-haul planes in the process.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
I would imagine that LOT will receive compensation for the grounding of their 787s; as well as for the delayed deliveries of the 787s that are sitting idle at KPAE.

Perhaps, if they live long enough.

For now they are stuck with high leasing fees for the grounded dreamliners, plus parking fees for having one of them at ORD. Apart from that, they had to extend the leases for 20 year old 767s by 6 months being more or less at the mercy of the leasing companies. The 767 fleet is in no great shape since those aircraft were supposed to be gone and no investment has been made to keep them modern. No one wants to fly them apart from those who care about the low fare and nothing else. Also, the marketing effect of the european dreamtour of LOT is all gone.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: SCL767
Posted 2013-03-03 02:33:06 and read 3879 times.

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):
No other airline introducing the dreamliner was planning on getting rid of all other long-haul planes in the process.

Indeed. LOT had the smallest wide-body fleet compared to the other 787 carriers, i.e. AI, ANA, JAL, LAN, UA, QR, and ET.

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):
Perhaps, if they live long enough.

Perhaps they will; if they don't I wonder which carrier(s) will receive their 6 787s?

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-03-03 07:25:26 and read 3773 times.

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):

LOT has gotten burned by the 787 pretty badly compared to other airlines, but even if things with the 787 went smoothly they probably would still be in rough shape. Unfortunately LOT is just a tiny intercontinental airline that has been squeezed out by growing competition in a weak global environment. Its tough to make that work, no matter what planes you are flying. LOT has been the airline "no one wants to fly ... apart from those who care about the low fare and nothing else" for a long time. The 787 might have helped a little, but it alone is never going to be the answer to LOT's issues.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-03-04 13:14:08 and read 3248 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 22):

Ok, heartattack. I have to fly to WAW in July and Wizz and Ryanair are more expensive.....

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-03-04 22:54:06 and read 3034 times.

LO is having big promotion between 6th and 8th of March for tickets on all of their routes. If you are not afraid of being stranded in case they go under, it might be a good option to check out.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: mke717spotter
Posted 2013-03-05 08:12:55 and read 2754 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 27):
If you are not afraid of being stranded in case they go under, it might be a good option to check out.


Realistically, what are the chances of this happening? At least it sounds like we may get some good news by the end of this week in regard to the 787s.

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-03-05 22:44:14 and read 2567 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 27):

Hi,

Just checked LOs website, no promotion, just regular fares 

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2013-03-05 23:19:53 and read 2540 times.

Check again, the sale is taking place between 6th and 8th of March. Oh, and make sure you set the lot.com page to "Poland", I'm afraid it isn't available on other markets...

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 28):
Realistically, what are the chances of this happening?

The moment European Commission deems the famour so-called "loan" being illegal government subsidy, LO will be doomed. They don't have 400mio PLN to return, it's all been spent already.

The industry joke is that LO is running their big two-day sale to raise cash for payment of their current expenses.

[Edited 2013-03-05 23:21:20]

[Edited 2013-03-05 23:22:30]

Topic: RE: LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?
Username: LO231
Posted 2013-03-07 22:18:03 and read 2071 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 30):

I know you're my favourite on LO news, but if I choose Poland, they don't give me prices from BRU.... 


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/