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Topic: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-24 12:02:43 and read 8000 times.

Look like it got uploaded into the schedules last night. DL begins daily service between LAX and Costa Rica beginning Dec 19, 2013. Return flight begins Dec 20, 2013.

DL465 - Boeing 757
Dp LAX 10:15pm
Ar SJO 5:55am +1

DL 466 - Boeing 757
Dp SJO 7:10am
Ar LAX 11:30am

Source: ITA schedule search

Another interesting add for DL's LAX operation.

[Edited 2013-02-24 12:21:46]

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-02-24 12:13:51 and read 7938 times.

Is this going to be a daily service?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-02-24 12:17:54 and read 7901 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
Is this going to be a daily service?

Yes, sorry for not posting that, it's daily.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: tommy767
Posted 2013-02-24 12:48:11 and read 7729 times.

Ah an interesting add indeed. I remember when AA flew this route pretty darn consistently back in the early/mid 2000s

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 12:55:37 and read 7676 times.

757 is an interesting choice...surely the 738s can make it (CM uses theirs to PTY) and the 319 would have been a nice seat count to start with.

Perhaps the 757 was idle....

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: laca773
Posted 2013-02-24 13:57:23 and read 7437 times.

Perhaps DL decided to utilize the 757 since the competition AV-TA fly a A319 most of the time on the nonstops, though AV-TA don't fly it daily, with the possible exception of the winter holidays. I could see this flight be flown with a 73W if they have any a/c available to do a redeye Central America turn.

Has their been talk of re-introducing SAL? They could fly SJO nonstop on peak days then fly a one stop either LAX-GUA/SAL-SJO.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-24 17:08:08 and read 6969 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):
DL has once again proved many of the A.net experts wrong

Let's not over-rotate here--the fares are terrible and DL has tried plenty of LAXCentral America before. In fact, below in "more similar topics" it reads like a list of DL's greatest LAX hits.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2013-02-24 17:24:32 and read 6879 times.

Remember AA also tried a SJO nonstop - did not last. They tinkered with going seasonal, but that did not work also.

Then you had UA running a SJO tag on GUA flight but that got cut also.

Even home carrier TACA does not maintain a daily service - and they run it on their smallest equipment with the range - A319.

Costa Rican community is one of the smaller ethnic communities in LA. No where as close to the Salvadorian and Guatemalan communities in LA. Hence the market is more of a seasonal tourist market for Americans.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-02-24 17:45:41 and read 6809 times.

They won't have a problem filling the plane or the belly, which is why they will need a 757. Yields will suck though. US carriers seem to have a problem making LAX-Central America work, long term. Lots of consolidators and junk fares. Good luck to them.

Are they still running LAX-LIR?

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-24 17:54:10 and read 6771 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):
I remember when AA flew this route pretty darn consistently back in the early/mid 2000s

The LAX-SJO city-pair has never been a bulky market compared with SAL-LAX or GUA-LAX.
We might suppose that the demand of passengers could be larger now. Almost ten years have passed since AA LAX-SJO 7x weekly.
DL JFK-SJO 5x weekly with 757 failed in 2008.




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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 4):
surely the 738s can make it (CM uses theirs to PTY)

Sure. CM PTY-LAX goes from 19x to 21x weekly on July 09th.




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Quoting laca773 (Reply 5):
Perhaps DL decided to utilize the 757 since the competition AV-TA fly a A319 most of the time on the nonstops, though AV-TA don't fly it daily

TA/LR SJO-LAX is 4x weekly nowadays.




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Quoting laca773 (Reply 5):
They could fly SJO nonstop on peak days then fly a one stop either LAX-GUA/SAL-SJO.

It's unnapealing regarding TA/LR SJO-LAX as non-stop.




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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Then you had UA running a SJO tag on GUA flight but that got cut also.

Correct. UA LAX-GUA-SJO was dropped many years ago.
The sole UA LAX-GUA was also removed in the past years.
The UA code is present on TA SAL-LAX and TA/LR SJO-GUA-LAX and prior to the participation of GRUPO TACA into Star Alliance.

Regards.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-24 17:58:08 and read 6745 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
Are they still running LAX-LIR?


Speaking about the Central American landscape, DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR were experiments that didn't last too much.
DL also failed on DL JFK-GUA, DL JFK-PTY, DL JFK-SJO and DL JFK-LIR five years ago.

Regards.

[Edited 2013-02-24 18:36:16]

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2013-02-24 18:25:22 and read 6651 times.

There has

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 10):
DL LAX-BZE, DL LAX-MGA and DL LAX-LIR were experiments that didn't last too much.

As mentioned it supposedly wasn't because of the loads the flights were pulled. Similar situation to US from FLL.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: mingocr83
Posted 2013-02-24 21:22:44 and read 5726 times.

Well seems Delta Cargo is looking to put more cargo in Asia...that would be the main "experiment" again. As LAXintl mentioned, the CR community in LAX is not big enough, but as of right now there are plenty of business travelers (including myself) looking for a direct flight to LAX in the mornings. Many near shore offices in SJO have their main offices in LAX...could be a good chance for DL to bite into that market...

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-02-24 21:24:08 and read 5708 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
As mentioned it supposedly wasn't because of the loads the flights were pulled. Similar situation to US from FLL.

Both were/are pretty strategic, so if they even came close to making money or had the potential to eventually make money, they would not have been canned.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: civetfive
Posted 2013-02-25 00:14:53 and read 5246 times.

LAX-SJO is 2722mi...that's a long way to send a plane for potentially not-great yields. To put it in perspective, LAX-LIH is 2615mi, and the fares are much higher.

The timing of the route does look its using some slack 757 capacity that would have RON at LAX anyways, but LAX-Central America are long rotations.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-25 19:42:54 and read 3497 times.

Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 12):
right now there are plenty of business travelers (including myself) looking for a direct flight to LAX in the mornings


For those who traveled in the morning out of SJO to Los Angeles, there are many possibilities to make this segment involving layovers: [UA SJO-IAH + UA IAH-LAX], [AM SJO-MEX + AM MEX-LAX], [AA SJO-DFW + AA DFW-LAX], [CM SJO-PTY + CM PTY-LAX] and [TA/LR SJO-SAL + TA SAL-LAX].
However, the proposed schedule on the dedicated DL SJO-LAX gives the possibility to save more time as shown:

DL 466........SJO 07:10..........LAX 11:30..........Daily............757

I even have my doubts about the real demand of passengers, in order to make this flight profitable with 757 year-round. On the other hand, the dimension of that market has been increased since the experiment of AA SJO-LAX.
One more point: the launch of DL LAX-SJO is trying to avoid any incursion of AS LAX-SJO in the future.


Regards @ Santo Domingo, Heredia

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2013-02-26 07:01:07 and read 3239 times.

If DL was to fly the same B757 LAX-SJO red-eyes, SJO-ATL morning, ATL-SJO evening and SJO-LAX red-eyes that could be a nice rotation.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2013-02-26 07:12:09 and read 3212 times.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 15):
I even have my doubts about the real demand of passengers, in order to make this flight profitable with 757 year-round. On the other hand, the dimension of that market has been increased since the experiment of AA SJO-LAX.
One more point: the launch of DL LAX-SJO is trying to avoid any incursion of AS LAX-SJO in the future.

Agreed re: AS.

I think the passenger demand is there, but not the yields. I don't think DL is planning on this being a huge money maker, rather a "nice to have" addition to their growing LAX op to utilize an aircraft which might have been on the ground for a number of hours, as well as give their premium flyers another sought out reward destination. Also, there's probably money to made with luggage fees, cargo etc. which is why a 757 is good metal for the route. We will see how it performs and if it lasts.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-02-26 11:58:09 and read 3044 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
Yields will suck though. US carriers seem to have a problem making LAX-Central America work, long term. Lots of consolidators and junk fares.

Ref the LAX- Central American thing, I was thinking along the same lines. DL seems to start and stop LAX routes rather frequently.

DL could simply not release to consolidators, no? After all, they cold limit the fare buckets, right? Just a thought.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 17):
I think the passenger demand is there, but not the yields. I don't think DL is planning on this being a huge money maker, rather a "nice to have" addition to their growing LAX op to utilize an aircraft which might have been on the ground for a number of hours, as well as give their premium flyers another sought out reward destination. Also, there's probably money to made with luggage fees, cargo etc. which is why a 757 is good metal for the route. We will see how it performs and if it lasts.

I was wondering about cargo as well. I can't see the $$ being made in pax/premium fares. I do like the idea of a destination to burn miles however. That makes some sense. as to does the rotation question. If a small amount of $ can be made, and the hours are "off peak", why not? Get what your can eek out with what you have.

Will this route last any length of time? My guess - not a hung amount of time.

Dave

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-02-26 16:24:50 and read 2914 times.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 17):
the passenger demand is there, but not the yields


As pointing out before, the SJO-LAX sector is by far not larger than both LAX-SAL and LAX-GUA.
The O&D component into PTY-LAX could reach a similar dimension compared with SJO-LAX. However, CM PTY-LAX will go shortly to 21x weekly due to the superb utilization at PTY as transferring center.
This is not situation at SJO: lack of healthy O&D traffic as well as the centralization of TA towards California through San Salvador instead: SAL-LAX and SAL-SFO.
Having said that, DL LAX-SJO saw the niche as they're trying to make this route successfully from December.
Speaking about the Central American situation, DL LAX-GUA also flies that route daily with 757 and TA/LR [SJO-GUA-LAX] 7x weekly with 320 is the sole competitor at this time.

Regards.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-03-08 20:08:18 and read 2453 times.

Delta Air Lines has moved forward their intended plans for the new Los Angeles - San Jose sector as shown:

DL 465...........LAX 23:00.........SJO 05:45+1..........Daily...........757
DL 466...........SJO 06:55.........LAX 12:20..............Daily...........757

The first flight is now scheduled on July 01st.

Regards.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2013-03-08 21:32:56 and read 2369 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 18):
DL could simply not release to consolidators, no? After all, they cold limit the fare buckets, right? Just a thought.

The problem is other airlines won't. They can fill the planes with low yield or maintain high fares and send out empty planes.

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2013-03-08 22:49:53 and read 2303 times.

Hard to believe that DL is now the only U.S. carrier offering nonstop service between LAX and Central America, with their enduring LAX-GUA service and now this new LAX-SJO offering. Makes me wonder if we could see DL take a stab at LAX-SAL, or perhaps resume LAX-BZE, LAX-LIR, and/or LAX-MGA, all of which were briefly operated as part of their mid-2000s LAX expansion. They could also "connect the dots" between LAX and established stations at PTY, RTB, SAP, and/or TGU.

PMUA dropped its longstanding LAX-GUA and LAX-SAL routes (inherited from Pan Am in 1991) back in 2008, in favor of codesharing with TA. PMCO attempted a nonstop p2p LAX-SAL service in 2009. When the airlines merged they greatly expanded LAX-Mexico, but nothing in the way of new/resumed LAX-Central America even as other PMUA hubs (re)gained nonstop Central American flights. I'm guessing UA doesn't have any interest in returning to the LAX-Central America realm anytime soon...

AA flew LAX-SAL for much of the past decade, whilst attempts at LAX-SJO during the same timeframe were presumably much less successful. Will be interesting to see if DL can pull off LAX-SJO when AA couldn't. AA has stronger FF bases in Los Angeles/Southern California and Costa Rica, whilst DL has lower operating costs. I'm guessing AA also don't have any interest in returning to the LAX-Central America realm anytime soon...

Then there was the brief NK LAX-GUA, and rumors of AS or even B6 expanding to Central America from LAX haven't come to fruition. I had thought LAX-Costa Rica might even be a good market for VX to try, but that would probably only happen once they start growing the fleet again. So I guess all DL has to worry about is competing against Central American airlines TA/LR and CM. For now. Central America could make for a nice little niche for them out of LAX!

Topic: RE: DL To Start LAX-SJO
Username: SJOtoLIR
Posted 2013-03-09 07:45:39 and read 2183 times.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
PMCO attempted a nonstop p2p LAX-SAL service in 2009

CO LAX-SAL was thrice a week in 2009 and it operated during the US summer break, if I recall correctly.




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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
I'm guessing UA doesn't have any interest in returning to the LAX-Central America realm anytime soon

I totally agreed with.
The withdrawal of UA LAX-SAL and UA LAX-GUA tried to boost the code-share cooperation with TA SAL-LAX and TA/LR SJO-GUA-LAX and it happened prior to the entrance of TA into Star Alliance grouping.




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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
AA flew LAX-SAL for much of the past decade, whilst attempts at LAX-SJO during the same timeframe were presumably much less successful

From the top of my head: the first attempt of AA LAX-SJO or AA LAX-SAL-SJO was launched during the early 90s and it didn't last too much. It departed from SJO at 16:40 or so.




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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
I'm guessing AA also don't have any interest in returning to the LAX-Central America realm anytime soon





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Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
Hard to believe that DL is now the only U.S. carrier offering nonstop service between LAX and Central America, with their enduring LAX-GUA service and now this new LAX-SJO offering. Makes me wonder if we could see DL take a stab at LAX-SAL, or perhaps resume LAX-BZE, LAX-LIR, and/or LAX-MGA, all of which were briefly operated as part of their mid-2000s LAX expansion. They could also "connect the dots" between LAX and established stations at PTY, RTB, SAP, and/or TGU.

I'd keep my post as neutral as possible.
The possible success of the intended DL SJO-LAX which is now due to start on July 01st may depend in the progress of the demand of passengers between SJO and LAX in 2013. The days of AA SJO-LAX and UA SJO-GUA-LAX have gone and that happened 15 years ago where the dimension of that market cannot be fairly compared with the situation experienced nowadays.
I flew last year CM SJO-PTY and then CM PTY-LAX departing from Costa Rica at 06:00. In my view, the CM PTY-LAX segment was plenty loaded with passengers originated at SJO. Copa Airlines understood the lack of early departures to Los Angeles and they will solidly increase the CM PTY-LAX service to 3x daily from July 09th.
The market between the U.S. and SJO is totally different compared to the rest of Central America. Frontier Airlines and JetBlue Airways are only operating in Costa Rica and this fact gives us a feasible chance for the success of DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly.
As pointing out into the active edition of the Central American aviation thread: the launch of DL LAX-SJO doesn't necessarily mean the spread of DL LAX-Central America.

Regards.


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