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Topic: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-03-08 21:37:12 and read 15536 times.

Cal was #1 on the DL seniority list, and flew his last flight on Friday from LAX to ATL before turning 65. Cal has had a long and storied career at Delta, with recent highlights being delivering DL's first 777LR and flying the DXB inaugural. He is a gentleman, a class act, and the epitome of what an airline captain should be.

More from the AJC, including photos, here: http://www.ajc.com/news/business/sen...etires-after-grasping-dream/nWmZn/

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2013-03-08 21:42:46 and read 15519 times.

I recognize Cal as I have flown on one of his flights. Cal you are a gentleman and enjoy your retirement.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: maxpower1954
Posted 2013-03-08 22:08:13 and read 15394 times.

A very nice story, but I find it amazing that the Atlanta Constituition would describe Delta Airlines in the 1970s as a small Southern carrier. Even Captain Flanigan was wrong when he said Delta didn't fly west of the Mississippi when he started. The routes to LAX, SFO, SAN

[Edited 2013-03-08 22:15:07] and LAS began in 1961.

But again, a very nice story. I hope he has a long and happy retirement.


[Edited 2013-03-08 22:16:49]

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-03-08 22:22:56 and read 15327 times.

"he never took a sick day in 45 years."

Wow - what a company man.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-08 22:51:52 and read 15226 times.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 2):
A very nice story, but I find it amazing that the Atlanta Constituition would describe Delta Airlines in the 1970s as a small Southern carrier.

The route system, when I hired on in '71 WAS predominently EAST of the Mississippi. Only a very few routes west of there.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 2):
Even Captain Flanigan was wrong when he said Delta didn't fly west of the Mississippi when he started.

Even DL's very first route went west of the Mississippi.............to Monroe, Shreveport and Dallas, originating in Atlanta. Funny, when I worked at SHV '80-'82, we STILL had that routing, on a 727.........DFW-SHV-MLU-JAN-BHM-ATL.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2013-03-08 23:10:12 and read 15161 times.

Guys, can we stop with the OCD, and perhaps read the article again.

“When I started, if you were to look at the route map, it was east of the Mississippi,” Flanigan said. “If you look at our system map now, it covers the world.”

I'd say that at the time the vast vast majority of Delta routes were east of the Mississippi river, so he is accurate. Otherwise I can get all OCD and claim that they don't cover the world.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Yukon880
Posted 2013-03-08 23:24:27 and read 15114 times.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 2):
A very nice story, but I find it amazing that the Atlanta Constituition would describe Delta Airlines in the 1970s as a small Southern carrier. Even Captain Flanigan was wrong when he said Delta didn't fly west of the Mississippi when he started. The routes to LAX, SFO, SAN

According to the AJC article, the Captain is quoted as saying...

“When I started, if you were to look at the route map, it was east of the Mississippi. If you look at our system map now, it covers the world.”

He did not specifically say that "Delta didn't fly west of the Mississippi when he started."

No doubt he was well aware of the West Coast service when he hired on, and given the context I do think the intent was clear. Further, since the Captain bleeds Widgets, I'll bet he knows the name of his company...

Delta Air Lines

Blue Skies,

Yukon

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: dairbus
Posted 2013-03-09 00:26:29 and read 14980 times.

I'm proud to say that I was the dispatcher for Capt. Flanigan's final flight.

Although I did not know him personally, it's obvious he is held in very high regard by many at Delta. Richard Anderson even had a personal message which was transmitted via ACARS while he was enroute to ATL. I got off work just as the flight was about to land and was able to see him get the traditional water cannon salute as he taxied into E-Concourse.


I wish all the best to him and his family on his retirement.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
"he never took a sick day in 45 years."

Wow - what a company man.

An impressive accomplishment by any measure...

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: n901wa
Posted 2013-03-09 01:17:38 and read 14868 times.

Great Story. Glad to see someone get to fullfill his Dreams. I wish him a Happy Retirement.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: dalmd88
Posted 2013-03-09 07:58:36 and read 14109 times.

What a great career. My favorite part is he started out washing airplanes and ended as Chief Pilot.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: johns624
Posted 2013-03-09 11:53:02 and read 12878 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
"he never took a sick day in 45 years."

Wow - what a company man.

I've known some people like that. They never took a sick day but they sure caused other, smarter people to take them when they got them sick at work instead of staying home.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-03-09 12:57:45 and read 11879 times.

Looking at Captain Flanigan's picture looking out the window of the last Delta flight as a pilot in command, he looks as though he really enjoyed flying. He looks, to me, like a kid who wanted to fly aircraft.
Hope enjoys flying his own aircraft as he did flying the "Big Jets". Only the best to this aviation giant.   

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: solarflyer22
Posted 2013-03-09 14:46:11 and read 10706 times.

What a great career. Great story.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: jbmitt
Posted 2013-03-09 16:10:00 and read 9830 times.

Was anyone else surprised that in 37 years he only landed at 95 different destinations? Granted towards the end he was on the 777, MD-11, 767, L1011 which had more limited destinations, but he did fly the 727, MD88, and DC-9.

I would think that over a career a pilot on the MD88/90, 737, 757 would have made it to nearly every mainline city. Can anyone else chime in?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: davescj
Posted 2013-03-09 16:19:30 and read 9737 times.

I hope he has a great retirement and a well earned chance to spend some time flying for fun!

Dave

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: WESTERN737800
Posted 2013-03-09 16:24:15 and read 9672 times.

Great story. Congrats on a great career. Not taking a sick day in 45 years is very impressive.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2013-03-09 16:27:07 and read 9648 times.

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 16):
737

Apparently, unbelievably...9 different types, but NOT including the 737!

Welcome to the wonderful world of S3B.

Choosing to retire is one thing, but was he required to retire? Could he not have been a check pilot after 65?

Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2013-03-09 16:53:12 and read 9385 times.

Quoting davescj (Reply 17):

I would bet that he has been flying for fun for the last 37 years.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: futureualpilot
Posted 2013-03-09 17:41:09 and read 8978 times.

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 16):
I would think that over a career a pilot on the MD88/90, 737, 757 would have made it to nearly every mainline city. Can anyone else chime in?

It depends on how he bid and what his seniority could hold over the years. It is entirely possible to see every city your company serves, but it is equally as possible to see the same two or three places if you are senior enough and choose to do so.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-03-09 17:49:55 and read 8896 times.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 21):
Quoting jbmitt (Reply 16):
I would think that over a career a pilot on the MD88/90, 737, 757 would have made it to nearly every mainline city. Can anyone else chime in?

It depends on how he bid and what his seniority could hold over the years. It is entirely possible to see every city your company serves, but it is equally as possible to see the same two or three places if you are senior enough and choose to do so.

There was an article a few years ago about a senior CO captain. He chose to fly IAH-AMS-IAH and did almost nothing else for several years.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: atpg5
Posted 2013-03-09 19:11:59 and read 8176 times.

Congratulations to Captain Cal Flanigan on his outstanding career! Enjoy your retirement!

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-03-09 19:13:27 and read 8288 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 19):
Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

The industry needs the turnover. Congratulations to him on a great career, but there are a lot of people who have been waiting patiently for years just to be able to step onto the ladder in this industry.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: cornutt
Posted 2013-03-09 19:27:31 and read 8172 times.

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 16):
Was anyone else surprised that in 37 years he only landed at 95 different destinations?

That does kind of surprise me, considering that Delta used to have a lot of "bus stop" routes that landed at every little burg with a strip along the way. If you flew ATL-BHM, you'd have stops at Rome, Gadsden, and Anniston. Pull up to the gate, run people out, run people in, and away again. 20 minutes or so on the ground for each stop. It probably wasn't unusual for a crew member to see 15 different airports in a duty day.

It wasn't that long ago that on Sundays, Delta's mid-afternoon ATL-DFW run still made a stop in Monroe. One of the FAs told me that it was Delta's way of remembering their roots. The airport, from what I could see out the aircraft window, looked like a time capsule from about 1960.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2013-03-09 19:45:18 and read 7988 times.

Amazing, and congrats to him. In fact I saw his plane moving at LAX after I came in on the DL 77L from ATL.


On another note now the tidal wave begins at delta, here come the new pilots.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-03-09 20:39:23 and read 7554 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 19):
Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

The industry needs the turnover. Congratulations to him on a great career, but there are a lot of people who have been waiting patiently for years just to be able to step onto the ladder in this industry.

And he got 5 more years than when the age 60 rule existed. He must have turned 60 just about the time the age 60 rule was changed to 65

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-09 22:12:41 and read 7280 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 26):
It wasn't that long ago that on Sundays, Delta's mid-afternoon ATL-DFW run still made a stop in Monroe. One of the FAs told me that it was Delta's way of remembering their roots. The airport, from what I could see out the aircraft window, looked like a time capsule from about 1960.

As I mentioned earlier, when I worked in SHV in the early 80s, we still had a couple of flights that used that original "AM24" mail route that DL started with......ATL-BHM-JAN-MLU-SHV-Dallas and return.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 19):
Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

Am I mistaken but isn't the age 65 rule an FAA regulation?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: johnclipper
Posted 2013-03-09 23:06:38 and read 7169 times.

Quoting dairbus (Reply 7):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):"he never took a sick day in 45 years."

Wow - what a company man.
An impressive accomplishment by any measure...

But when you only work a few days a month, it's more of the luck of the draw if you are not sick on your "off days". Don't think I would want to be on a plane piloted by someone who pushed themselves when they were sick.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-03-10 09:07:38 and read 6904 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 23):
That does kind of surprise me, considering that Delta used to have a lot of "bus stop" routes that landed at every little burg with a strip along the way. If you flew ATL-BHM, you'd have stops at Rome, Gadsden, and Anniston. Pull up to the gate, run people out, run people in, and away again. 20 minutes or so on the ground for each stop. It probably wasn't unusual for a crew member to see 15 different airports in a duty day.

By the time he started as a pilot at DL in 1976, a lot of the smaller cities like Rome, Gadsden and Anniston had already seen service from airlines like DL and Eastern disappear as those airlines retired the last of their prop fleet and their smallest jets could not safely operate from those airports at the time (Southern stuck around in some of the markets even after the merger to form Republic. Much like today, there were smaller airlines that started up to fill the void at these smaller airports/). You also saw less and less multi-stop flights as well, as some of those markets could now sustain non-stop service.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: 777STL
Posted 2013-03-10 09:16:33 and read 6830 times.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 18):
It depends on how he bid and what his seniority could hold over the years. It is entirely possible to see every city your company serves, but it is equally as possible to see the same two or three places if you are senior enough and choose to do so.

Exactly, and he was likely bidding whatever he wanted fro much of his career given his high seniority. Even when he didn't have high seniority, DL was a fraction of the size that it is now.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-03-10 19:29:00 and read 6080 times.

Enjoy retirement, sir. You've earned it.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: SkyTeamTriStar
Posted 2013-03-10 19:57:47 and read 6041 times.

According to RA phone message, this week, Cal has flown every plane is JET AGE fleet.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-10 21:12:22 and read 5904 times.

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 30):
According to RA phone message, this week, Cal has flown every plane is JET AGE fleet.

I wonder if he flew the CV880, though. By the time he started flying in '76, the 880s were already put out to pasture, I believe.




Regardless, an impressive career. Enjoy your retirement, Capt. Flanigan......you have certainly earned it.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Norcal773
Posted 2013-03-10 21:48:56 and read 5824 times.

Impressive career indeed, how cool!

If anyone watched the BA38 feature on the Discovery channel (I think it was the discovery channel but I could be wrong), they showed an incident where a DL 777 lost power at cruising altitude when the engines spooled up, same thing as BA38. From that picture they showed at least, I think Captain Calvin was on the controls.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Type-Rated
Posted 2013-03-10 21:50:41 and read 5823 times.

Quoting cornutt (Reply 22):
It wasn't that long ago that on Sundays, Delta's mid-afternoon ATL-DFW run still made a stop in Monroe. One of the FAs told me that it was Delta's way of remembering their roots. The airport, from what I could see out the aircraft window, looked like a time capsule from about 1960.

You are close. The terminal that was in use during the last of Delta mainline in Monroe was opened in June, 1964. For some reason that airport always had a particular odor to it. I don't know if it was disinfectants or floor wax that caused the odor. The floors were highly polished. But the terminal was always spotlessly clean.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: saab2000
Posted 2013-03-11 05:16:23 and read 5660 times.

Quoting atpg5 (Reply 20):
There was an article a few years ago about a senior CO captain. He chose to fly IAH-AMS-IAH and did almost nothing else for several years.

I had on my jumpseat a few years ago a US AIrways pilot who is very senior on the 767 and chooses to only fly PHL-MUC (or FRA - don't remember which one). He basically has a double life. He has a house in Philadelphia and an apartment in the German city he flies to and just spends his life flying between the two places. Not bad! A bit boring, but not a bad way to do things! If I could do that between a major US city and ZRH for the rest my career I know I would do so.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: srbmod
Posted 2013-03-11 16:02:45 and read 5063 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 31):
I wonder if he flew the CV880, though. By the time he started flying in '76, the 880s were already put out to pasture, I believe.

No photos in the database for DL's 880s beyond 1973. The Delta museum lists the retirement of the type from the DL fleet as January 1974.

http://www.deltamuseum.org/M_Educati...taHistory_Aircraft_Convair_880.htm

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-11 16:38:57 and read 4984 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 35):
No photos in the database for DL's 880s beyond 1973.

As I recall, the fuel shortage of '73 was probably the death knell for the 880 and probably accellerated the deliver of new 727s.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: barney captain
Posted 2013-03-11 19:01:00 and read 4740 times.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 10):
I've known some people like that. They never took a sick day but they sure caused other, smarter people to take them when they got them sick at work instead of staying home.

Completely agree. Either this was the single healthiest individual ever created, or he flew sick. Not cool.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-03-11 20:12:16 and read 4642 times.

Some of the posts on this thread regarding whether or not Cal flew while sick remind me why I rarely post on here anymore.

Anyway, for those of us that know Cal this was a nice story and a fitting tribute to his career.

For the rest of you who want to sit there and focus on whether he ever flew "sick" that's certainly your prerogative. However what may be "sick" to you may it be "sick" to someone else.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: SPREE34
Posted 2013-03-11 20:32:11 and read 4595 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 5):
Guys, can we stop with the OCD, and perhaps read the article again.

  

A few in here could use some of Capt. Flanigan's Class.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Highflier92660
Posted 2013-03-12 09:57:36 and read 4268 times.

While it was a long time ago that Captain Cal Flanigan was hired as a pilot in 1976, even then Delta Air Lines was more than just a small southern carrier. Perhaps the author of the article confused Delta with Southern Airlines that used to hop around the deep south with a fleet of DC-9s, or the good captain was reflecting back on his long and storied career with a bit of nostalgia.

In the early and mid-1970s Delta flew some very interesting routes, such as a 1-stop from LAX to San Juan, Puerto Rico via New Orleans with a stretch-eight DC-8-61.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: maxpower1954
Posted 2013-03-12 17:02:20 and read 3944 times.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 40):
While it was a long time ago that Captain Cal Flanigan was hired as a pilot in 1976, even then Delta Air Lines was more than just a small southern carrier. Perhaps the author of the article confused Delta with Southern Airlines that used to hop around the deep south with a fleet of DC-9s, or the good captain was reflecting back on his long and storied career with a bit of nostalgia.

In the early and mid-1970s Delta flew some very interesting routes, such as a 1-stop from LAX to San Juan, Puerto Rico via New Orleans with a stretch-eight DC-8-61.

It was a non-stop DC-8-51 LAX-SJU in 1972 according to Departedflights.com.

Yes, the reference to a "small Southern carrier" would fit Southern or Piedmont in 1976, not Delta. I read a similar article a few years back about Ford Motor Company's longest serving employee ( he had over 60 years with Fordmoco) and it somehow managed to make Ford look like a small family owned business in 1950 that became a worldwide auto company, which is certainly was long before 1950.

In any event, Delta became the 5th largest U.S. domestic carrier in 1961 moving into the slot after Capital merged with UAL. Just for the record, the ranking was UA, AA, TW, EA and DL.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: skycub
Posted 2013-03-12 17:22:18 and read 3893 times.

Can someone please explain to me....

We have an entire thread dedicated to this retiring Delta pilot....

Yet.. the thread about Southwest's Brian Lusk seems to have disappeared.

With all due respect to Delta's senior captain finally retiring...Can someone explain why the Brian Lusk thread disappeared?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-12 17:23:48 and read 3881 times.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 40):
While it was a long time ago that Captain Cal Flanigan was hired as a pilot in 1976, even then Delta Air Lines was more than just a small southern carrier. Perhaps the author of the article confused Delta with Southern Airlines that used to hop around the deep south with a fleet of DC-9s, or the good captain was reflecting back on his long and storied career with a bit of nostalgia.

Well, when I hired on in '71, I thought of them as a small southern carrier (relatively). We didn't start to really fill out our route map, to SLC/SEA/RNO/TUL/PDX/DEN/ABQ until after deregulation so there was a LARGE hole in DL's route map......the west coast routes were from ATL/MSY/DAL to SFO & LAX and not much in between. We were certainly smaller than our main competition, Eastern.......the relationship with Southern & Piedmont was more like the one we had with North Central.......they were regional feeders for us, via interline agreements.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: flight152
Posted 2013-03-12 17:33:56 and read 3865 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
"he never took a sick day in 45 years."

Wow - what a company man.

Not really much of an accomplishment. More then likely he flew sick at least a few times which isn't exactly desirable unless you work in accounting. I'd rather the crew i'm flying with be healthy so we don't get sick.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

I disagree. The age rule is there for a reason; more heath problems come up in the later years, even if you can pass a medical on one day.

I agree with Mir. There are plenty of us ready to move up in the industry, and it's time for many of these guys to retire. There has been too little movement for too long.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-12 17:39:22 and read 3856 times.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 44):

Your entire post reeks of "ageism", which is pretty sad. All the other posts that have disregarded Capt. Flanigans accomplishment, are "assuming" that he was sick part of that time and we all know about "assumptions" don't we?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2013-03-12 17:44:15 and read 3829 times.

Quoting skycub (Reply 42):
Can someone please explain to me....

We have an entire thread dedicated to this retiring Delta pilot....

Yet.. the thread about Southwest's Brian Lusk seems to have disappeared

Most DL threads on this forum routinely get 100+ replies. I expect this one will also.......

The Brian Lusk thread was moved twice, sending it to "site related" effectively killed it.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-03-12 18:05:41 and read 3803 times.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 44):

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
Isn't the 65 rule age discrimination? As long as he passes the medical, he should be allowed to continue flying.

I disagree. The age rule is there for a reason; more heath problems come up in the later years, even if you can pass a medical on one day.

I agree with Mir. There are plenty of us ready to move up in the industry, and it's time for many of these guys to retire. There has been too little movement for too long.

The pilots and ALPA got the mandatory retirement age raised from 60 to 65 with a lot of effort. A flight engineer or second officer could previously stay until 65. If I am correct, many foreign countries allow pilots to fly until they are 65.
I know you may think 65 is making it harder on younger pilots to enter the field, but nothing is always fair even though thats the way rules are written. Some of these older pilots may have found themselves in the same position.
I don't want to start fight, pilots flying the earlier aircraft may have found them more challenging than the newer highly automated aircraft that now fill the sky. They often had to be hand flown. So they have earned their stripes, just like the younger generation will.   

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-03-12 18:54:57 and read 3696 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):
Your entire post reeks of "ageism", which is pretty sad.

Somehow it's not ageism when it's the younger groups that are being screwed over. Curious, that.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 47):
I know you may think 65 is making it harder on younger pilots to enter the field

It's not even a question that it is making it harder. The timing of the age 65 rule change in the US will have negative implications for pilots for years to come. I'm not suggesting that it was intended to be that way, but that's what it ended up being.

I don't wish any ill on the senior guys, but I am very glad that retirements are finally happening again.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-12 19:34:24 and read 3626 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 48):
Somehow it's not ageism when it's the younger groups that are being screwed over. Curious, that.

Funny that only people that have no respect for those that have gone before them, think they're getting screwed over. Nothing curious about that.....it's just typical.


You and your ilk have turned this thread from something that should be celebrating Capt. Flanigan's career into something that slams the older pilots as well as Cal's accomplishments. I think I know why, though.....simply, it's because it has something to do with DL.......  Yeah sure

[Edited 2013-03-12 19:37:35]

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: davs5032
Posted 2013-03-12 19:55:22 and read 3579 times.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 44):
Not really much of an accomplishment. More then likely he flew sick at least a few times which isn't exactly desirable unless you work in accounting. I'd rather the crew i'm flying with be healthy so we don't get sick.

It's still an accomplishment, if you can think about it outside the small scope you've chosen to focus on. It shows he's incredibly devoted to his profession and takes pride in the work he puts in, realizes the importance of his contribution to daily company operations, and doesn't take shortcuts...I wish more people would share these traits in the workplace. It also shows that he truly loved the job he performed everyday he reported for duty. Why the rush to assume he put others at risk of sickness? Maybe he took exceptionally good care of himself. Maybe he took steps to ensure that he was properly medicated on occasions when he felt under the weather. You know, it is possible for one to use medication to prevent the spread of sickness to others while still reporting to work.

Kudos to Capt. Flanigan. I hope he enjoys every moment of a well-earned retirement!   

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Mir
Posted 2013-03-12 20:23:59 and read 3550 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 49):
You and your ilk have turned this thread from something that should be celebrating Capt. Flanigan's career into something that slams the older pilots as well as Cal's accomplishments.

You must have missed the part where I congratulated him on a great career. It is possible applaud his accomplishments and still be happy that the industry is finally getting some turnover again. And wanting some turnover is not ageism.

Quoting mayor (Reply 49):
I think I know why, though.....simply, it's because it has something to do with DL.......

You couldn't be more wrong.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-12 20:30:06 and read 3487 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 51):
You couldn't be more wrong.

If I am, it means you've broken your pattern. Congratulations

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: futureualpilot
Posted 2013-03-12 20:33:52 and read 3484 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 48):
I don't wish any ill on the senior guys, but I am very glad that retirements are finally happening again.

Agreed.

Quoting mayor (Reply 49):
Funny that only people that have no respect for those that have gone before them, think they're getting screwed over. Nothing curious about that.....it's just typical.

No, we generally have a tremendous amount of respect for those who went before us. We learn from them, can build off of what they've built for us, and can carry the metaphorical torch when they go on.

What we (the juniors, the up-and-comers) disagree with is pilots who advanced in no small part through the ranks due to a mandatory retirement age who cry foul when their number comes up. It is not any lack of respect or entitlement because junior pilots expect the senior pilots to retire at a certain age just as those same senior pilots did to those before them and as I'm sure those behind us will. There is a big difference between a lack of respect and wanting our own careers to progress as those before us did.



All of that said, congrats Captain Flanigan on your brilliant career well deserved retirement. Blue skies and tailwinds to you and your wife.

[Edited 2013-03-12 20:35:01]

[Edited 2013-03-12 20:39:47]

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-12 20:44:57 and read 3451 times.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 53):
What we (the juniors, the up-and-comers) disagree with is pilots who advanced in no small part through the ranks due to a mandatory retirement age who cry foul when their number comes up. Worse, when they turn around and call those junior to them "entitled" and implying a lack of respect because we expect them to retire at a certain age just as they did to those before them and as I'm sure those behind us will expect. There is a big difference between a lack of respect and wanting our own careers to progress as those before us did.

Regardless of the age change, do you actually think that those that went before you didn't have to wait on those ahead of them back then? Do you think it was all that different for them than it is for you?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-12 21:04:20 and read 3437 times.

Congrats to the Captain.

To say the least, he's earned his pension. As others noted, he has earned and I wish him 'blue skies.'

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...TheSky+(Travel+-+Today+In+the+Sky)

Flanigan said he plans to keep his pilot license active and fly his own plane.

That's great!

He's been at the top of the list a long time, I found online the 2007 DL seniority list! Just add a few years to the scheduled retirment dates due to the age 65 rule (5 more, to be exact)
http://rsp.homestead.com/sl_feb_07.pdf

Did B Jordan stay on and is he now DL's senior pilot?
J Holmquest will be the next to hold onto the most senior pilot slot for an extended time, assuming medical allows.

Here is the integrated list from 2008, but it lacks hire and retirement dates:
https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=45376

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 53):
There is a big difference between a lack of respect and wanting our own careers to progress as those before us did.

Agreed. I respect the... frustration at the 'logjam' the age 65 rule created. But now it is time for movement in the ranks.

I look forward to looking on Airline Pilots central and finally start seeing the 'most junior captain' ranking change. I swear DL's hire date of 1999 hasn't changed for 5 years nor AA's 1993 hire date. Perhaps I remember poorly... But I do wish junior pilots a chance to move up the ladder.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: futureualpilot
Posted 2013-03-12 22:04:44 and read 3383 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 54):
Regardless of the age change, do you actually think that those that went before you didn't have to wait on those ahead of them back then? Do you think it was all that different for them than it is for you

No, in fact I know they did. Nowhere do I say they did not. In fact in the quoted text I reference their career progression via mandatory retirement i.e. they had to wait for those before them. Why do you even bother asking a question like this? They had to wait, like I do, but they counted on mandatory retirements in part for career progression, like I do.

[Edited 2013-03-12 22:06:44]

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: NWAROOSTER
Posted 2013-03-13 07:47:37 and read 3145 times.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 56):

Quoting mayor (Reply 54):
Regardless of the age change, do you actually think that those that went before you didn't have to wait on those ahead of them back then? Do you think it was all that different for them than it is for you

No, in fact I know they did. Nowhere do I say they did not. In fact in the quoted text I reference their career progression via mandatory retirement i.e. they had to wait for those before them. Why do you even bother asking a question like this? They had to wait, like I do, but they counted on mandatory retirements in part for career progression, like I do.

This post was and should be about congratulating and wishing Captain Flanigan well for his "Successful career at Delta."
It should not be about the belly aching about the mandatory retirement age of 65. I would be willing to bet a year's salary, or pension, that those that are complaining, when they pilot an aircraft for a major airline that they will continue flying until they reach the mandatory retirement age of 65 or fail their medical.
Lets get back to what this post was originally about.   

[Edited 2013-03-13 07:53:11]

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-03-13 07:50:12 and read 3164 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 55):
Did B Jordan stay on and is he now DL's senior pilot?
J Holmquest will be the next to hold onto the most senior pilot slot for an extended time, assuming medical allows.

Neither is accurate. #1 on the seniority list now is DTW 744 CA P.R. Haley.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-13 08:29:02 and read 3087 times.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 56):
No, in fact I know they did. Nowhere do I say they did not. In fact in the quoted text I reference their career progression via mandatory retirement i.e. they had to wait for those before them. Why do you even bother asking a question like this? They had to wait, like I do, but they counted on mandatory retirements in part for career progression, like I do.

Then, why the complaints? No matter the job with the company, everyone has to start at the bottom and work their way up. I never complained about those above me or wished they would hurry up and retire or leave so I could move up the ladder. I knew how the system worked and I lived with it.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-13 10:35:22 and read 2970 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 58):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 55):
Did B Jordan stay on and is he now DL's senior pilot?
J Holmquest will be the next to hold onto the most senior pilot slot for an extended time, assuming medical allows.

Neither is accurate. #1 on the seniority list now is DTW 744 CA P.R. Haley.

Thank you. I was unable to find ex. NW seniority to the detail of the DL list.

When does P.R. Haley turn 65?



The reason I ask is trying to figure out when DL will have a large number of pilot retirements. As best I can tell reviewing their seniority list, there is no sudden wave and instead over the next 5 to 7 years they will see significant retirements.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-03-13 10:38:10 and read 2958 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 60):
The reason I ask is trying to figure out when DL will have a large number of pilot retirements. As best I can tell reviewing their seniority list, there is no sudden wave and instead over the next 5 to 7 years they will see significant retirements.

58 pilots turn 65 in 2013, and 103 in 2014.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: B747forever
Posted 2013-03-13 11:45:01 and read 2892 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 61):
58 pilots turn 65 in 2013, and 103 in 2014.

How does it look around 2017-2020?

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2013-03-13 13:28:38 and read 2784 times.

Quoting catiii (Reply 61):
58 pilots turn 65 in 2013, and 103 in 2014.

So 0.5% of the pilots in 2013 and 0.9% of the DL pilots in 2014.


So much for the imminent pilot shortage...

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: catiii
Posted 2013-03-13 15:23:47 and read 2637 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 63):
So 0.5% of the pilots in 2013 and 0.9% of the DL pilots in 2014.


So much for the imminent pilot shortage...

Well first off, the new rules don't kick in until later this year, but there is an imminent pilot shortage. Just because Delta isn't necessarily seeing it doesn't mean others aren't. The new regulations, combined with rapidly expanding and lucrative foreign airline jobs, will lead to a pilot shortage in the United States and negatively impact the industry.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 62):
How does it look around 2017-2020?

Good question. I've only seen the numbers for the near term.

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: Caspian27
Posted 2013-03-13 19:55:33 and read 2444 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 59):
Then, why the complaints? No matter the job with the company, everyone has to start at the bottom and work their way up. I never complained about those above me or wished they would hurry up and retire or leave so I could move up the ladder. I knew how the system worked and I lived with it.

I think though that you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes most airline employees are in a seniority based employment system, however I'm not aware of other employee groups that have mandatory retirement ages like pilots. I don't think it's "ageist" at all to say that the age 65 rule change has significantly affected the career outlook of many of my peers. Not knocking on the older pilots, but the reality is that it's pushed us all back 5 years. It's not like we're wishing specifically for guys to retire, it was just an expectation that was changed.

This of course doesn't take anything away from the fine career of CA Flanigan! Congrats!

Topic: RE: Delta's Capt. Cal Flanigan Retires
Username: mayor
Posted 2013-03-13 20:57:37 and read 2397 times.

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 65):
I think though that you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes most airline employees are in a seniority based employment system, however I'm not aware of other employee groups that have mandatory retirement ages like pilots.

Probably more like tangerines and oranges. If anything, since we didn't have a "mandatory" retirement age, there was a possibility that those above us could work PAST the age of 65, therefore we wouldn't even have a good, solid idea of when somebody was going to retire. Makes things kind of iffy, doesn't it?

I had plans to retire at age 62, in 2010, but I took an early retirement in '05. I do know people, however, that worked past 65.


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