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Topic: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: AussieItaliano
Posted 2013-03-16 07:16:25 and read 10770 times.

Since Pope Francis has already changed a few Vatican practices within the first few days as Pope, particularly with regards to eschewing exclusivity, I think it's more than likely that he might opt to fly on publicly scheduled flights rather than continue the Vatican practice of chartering aircraft for the pope.

As Cardinal of Buenos Aires, he refused to live in the archbishop's palace, choosing a simple apartment. He took the bus to work instead of being driven in a private car. In just the past few days, he has continued this style. He has refused the private Vatican car, preferring to ride the bus with other clergy.

I know that there are practical considerations, such as security and arrangements for those who accompany him when he travels, but given this new pope's preference for simplicity, I think there's a decent chance that we might see him on board a regular AZ flight (or another regularly scheduled flight) sometime soon.

Fratelli e sorelle, buona sera!

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2013-03-16 07:26:24 and read 10748 times.

Not a chance.

The pontiff on papal visits will always fly on Chartered Aircraft.

It needs too because of the entourage, press and security that goes everywhere with the holly father .

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: rj777
Posted 2013-03-16 07:57:30 and read 10634 times.

like I said in the AZ bankruptcy thread, maybe he'll choose AR for his travels since AZ is on the ropes.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2013-03-16 08:12:12 and read 10556 times.

He has to go charter. He travels with too much stuff....ie vestments, red shoes, hats etc. Can you imagine he and the staff plus security showing up at TSA. That's not going to happen. The Vatican has lots of money. I find it strange he had to go to the hotel to check out and pay his bill. Wonder if he got a clergy discount?????

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: gabrielchew
Posted 2013-03-16 08:24:54 and read 10503 times.

Well, from all his talking, it sounds like he'll be queuing up in the "OtherQ" as he flying with Ryanair! Hand luggage only of course, and no overpriced catering.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: MEA-707
Posted 2013-03-16 08:37:08 and read 10433 times.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 2):
like I said in the AZ bankruptcy thread, maybe he'll choose AR for his travels since AZ is on the ropes.

He's likely only to visit Argentina once or twice more in the rest of his life, it's not like a Pope can just go somewhere outside Europe to attend a niece's wedding or funeral. Unless he retires when he's 85 like Ratzinger.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-03-16 10:01:47 and read 10125 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
Unless he retires when he's 85 like Ratzinger.

Ratzinger will never go to Bavaria and his home town again.

In theory, the pope could fly scheduled services same as the Dalai Lama does. However, if Tibet was a sovereign state the dalai lama would have his own or chartered aircraft as well.

The Pope has the status of a head of state and the same security standards apply which will rule out scheduled travel.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: Aesma
Posted 2013-03-16 10:14:26 and read 10069 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
He's likely only to visit Argentina once or twice more in the rest of his life, it's not like a Pope can just go somewhere outside Europe to attend a niece's wedding or funeral. Unless he retires when he's 85 like Ratzinger.

Well if he's a reformer many things can change ! JP2 was not a reformer but he went skiing dozen of times !

He could start by taking a NetJet instead of an airliner.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: dartland
Posted 2013-03-16 10:33:40 and read 10010 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
The Pope has the status of a head of state and the same security standards apply which will rule out scheduled travel.

President Nixon took a regularly scheduled US domestic flight on UA IAD-LAX in 1973.

Yes, it was to make a point and is not protocol, but stil relevant.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: CPH-R
Posted 2013-03-16 10:39:43 and read 9985 times.

Quoting dartland (Reply 10):
President Nixon took a regularly scheduled US domestic flight on UA IAD-LAX in 1973.

Yes, it was to make a point and is not protocol, but stil relevant.

.. and it was utterly pointless as he had SAM 26000/27000 position empty to CA to fly him back to Washington.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-03-16 13:27:46 and read 9647 times.

Quoting AussieItaliano (Thread starter):
Since Pope Francis has already changed a few Vatican practices within the first few days as Pope, particularly with regards to eschewing exclusivity, I think it's more than likely that he might opt to fly on publicly scheduled flights rather than continue the Vatican practice of chartering aircraft for the pope.

I don´t tthink so, because of this:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 1):
It needs too because of the entourage, press and security that goes everywhere with the holly father .
Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
He could start by taking a NetJet instead of an airliner.

Didn´t the Vatican use to have a HANSA Jet?

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-03-16 14:40:45 and read 9212 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
The Pope has the status of a head of state and the same security standards apply which will rule out scheduled travel.

Many heads of state, including Queen Elizabeth II, have used scheduled flights.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: Type-Rated
Posted 2013-03-16 14:42:45 and read 9192 times.

I think Alitalia handled the Pope just like BA handles the Queen. They outfit the F compartment with different furniture and a partition to offer them the privacy they require. The rest of the aircraft stays the same for the entourage.

Now as for keeping it simple, I don't know how they'll do that. When you are the Pope, there are some things that come with that job.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-03-16 15:17:37 and read 8873 times.

I think it might be an option, but in very few circumstances.

Even if he cuts it down, I can't imagine that the pope, his entourage and security needs are compatible with a narrowbody scheduled flight for intra-European trips, nor can I see the pope running from one gate to the next to make a connection, so that leaves us with non-stop long-haul flights out of FCO. On those, like Queen Elizabeth has done, I can't see why an entire cabin cannot be reserved for him and his entourage...

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-03-16 15:27:03 and read 8784 times.

The Pope is a head of state and travels as one, The Plane is Usually Named "Shepard One".

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-03-16 15:29:37 and read 8767 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
The Pope is a head of state and travels as one, The Plane is Usually Named "Shepard One".

Shepherd One (spelling).

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: a36001
Posted 2013-03-16 15:48:20 and read 8596 times.

I don't think the Pope should (or would be allowed to) travel by scheduled flight's or any public transportation system. The Vatican would be crazy to allow this (not that they are) just on the basis of security alone. The Pope is the Pope and sometimes the title of some offices deserve special treatment, if the individual themselves does not like the trappings of office is neither here nor there.   Long live the Pope  

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2013-03-16 15:58:24 and read 8499 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
The Pope is a head of state and travels as one,
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Shepherd One

Correct. Here is a picture of him deplaning from an MD-80, I am not sure which airline this is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pope_John_Paul_II_11_06_1987_01.jpg

He is arriving in Poland for his third visit since becoming the Pope in 1978. In total, Pope John Paul II made 104 visits outside of Rome and Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Paul_II_pastoral_visits_map.jpg

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2013-03-16 16:53:29 and read 8085 times.

Pope Francis is going to Brazil for a "youth world day" this July. It is hard to imagine that the new Pope wouldn't add a trip to Argentina. Can you imagine the celebration in Buenos Aires? Alitalia will surely take him to Brazil, but I bet Aerolinas Argentina will take him back to Rome. How could they not?

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: 7673mech
Posted 2013-03-16 19:20:53 and read 7216 times.

When JP2 flew TWA we installed a special bed for him in first class.
We also repitched the coach class to more of an economy plus standard.
After his return - the aircraft returned to Los Angeles and we put everything back.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: 3MilesToWRO
Posted 2013-03-17 00:43:36 and read 6025 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 18):
Alitalia will surely take him to Brazil, but I bet Aerolinas Argentina will take him back to Rome. How could they not?

Well, this is the traditional way. He comes in an Italian aircraft, and goes back in a local one.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 3):
The Vatican has lots of money. I find it strange he had to go to the hotel to check out and pay his bill.

The point is that he of course did not *have to*. They could have done it for him. He *wanted to*, it was a gesture showing his concept of being the meek servant of God.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: Geo772
Posted 2013-03-17 02:31:09 and read 5572 times.

While previous Popes have used chartered aircraft I think you might well see a very different approach with Pope Francis. He is a Jesuit - a small part of the Roman Catholic Church whose members take a vow of chastity, poverty and obedience. The poverty aspect of this suggests that the new Pope will almost certainly not take a chartered aircraft - in fact he might well fly economy.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-03-17 03:24:53 and read 5341 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
The Pope has the status of a head of state and the same security standards apply which will rule out scheduled travel.

There are heads of state and heads of government who fly commercial (usually from smaller countries).

I once flew FRA-JFK on LH and there were some security types blocking the aisle between Business and First when the aircraft was boarding.

After landing, Business and Economy were held back a little while the occupants of the First cabin left the aircraft via the gate stairway to a car waiting on the tarmac. I asked one of the flight attendants who the VIP had been and she said "The prime minister of Slovenia. Or maybe Slovakia, one of the two." They had booked all 8 seats in the First cabin (this was on an A333). It was no doubt expensive, but booking 8 First tickets is probably still cheaper than chartering your own jet.

The key is the size of the entourage, and clearly the PM was travelling light in a way that the pope would never be able to do.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: alphaomega
Posted 2013-03-17 07:18:03 and read 4253 times.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 9):
Quoting dartland (Reply 10):
President Nixon took a regularly scheduled US domestic flight on UA IAD-LAX in 1973.

Yes, it was to make a point and is not protocol, but stil relevant.

.. and it was utterly pointless as he had SAM 26000/27000 position empty to CA to fly him back to Washington.

He did this to show the public US air travel was safe, not to save any money. Wasn't it also on a DC-10 following the issues/crashes? I may be wrong on this, but I know it was to demonstrate safety. The new Pope seems to want to stay as "one of the people" and keep things simple, so he may hop on scheduled flights but for major visits I agree, there will be a charter to take everything - it actually may be cheaper to charter an aircraft than it would be booking commercial flights for the same number of people, sending equipment, etc.

Off topic, but did the UA flight with Nixon use the AF1 callsign?   

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: CitationJet
Posted 2013-03-17 07:47:17 and read 4190 times.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 23):
Off topic, but did the UA flight with Nixon use the AF1 callsign?

I would highly doubt it, since it wasn't operated by the Air Force. The only possibility would be Executive 1, since it was a non-military aircraft.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-03-17 07:53:19 and read 4394 times.

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 24):
I would highly doubt it, since it wasn't operated by the Air Force. The only possibility would be Executive 1, since it was a non-military aircraft.

Correct. There's some background to it in the relevant Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_One

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: CPH-R
Posted 2013-03-17 10:28:45 and read 4181 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
Correct. Here is a picture of him deplaning from an MD-80, I am not sure which airline this is.

Could it have been a Soviet type? The photo was from a visit in Poland in 1987, ie. before the local communist party was forced to throw in the towel, so I can't imagine there being too many western types parked there.

But on the subject of JP2 and MD80's, go figure that the only time he visited Denmark (in 1989) he deplaned the Alitalia Maddog in pouring rain, bent down to kiss the ground - and then his zucchetto fell off. Fortunately the weather cleared up and he was able to not only give a small speech at my local cathedral (a Catholic bastion pre-reformation), but also hold an outdoor mass with the Danish catholics.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-17 10:35:52 and read 4253 times.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 23):
He did this to show the public US air travel was safe, not to save any money. Wasn't it also on a DC-10 following the issues/crashes? I may be wrong on this, but I know it was to demonstrate safety.

It was to show that the president was contributing to fuel-saving efforts during the first oil price crisis. It was about 6 years prior to AA191.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: georgiabill
Posted 2013-03-17 11:07:14 and read 4172 times.

If memory serves me correctly President Nixon flew TWA on an L1011

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-17 11:11:02 and read 4162 times.

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 28):
President Nixon flew TWA on an L1011

It was a United DC-10, as correctly identified in the wiki link posted earlier.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: peterjohns
Posted 2013-03-17 12:04:43 and read 4069 times.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 23):
The new Pope seems to want to stay as "one of the people" and keep things simple

Oh-really??
Well I´ll believe that when he gets into a regular flight, with regular people , and in regular Coach class.

And as that won´t happen, as we all might guess, for me he isn't any more "one of the people" as any other "head of state"
or whoever they think they might be- or have become....

The last time the President of the USA "visited" our Town- all the Sewage lids in the street were welded down, all windows had to be shut, public transport came to a halt, and the public had to stay put. I sincerely hope that these nearer to God people stay out of my way in future.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2013-03-17 12:04:58 and read 4082 times.

While Pope Francis has displayed a desire to keep things simple (humble), I really doubt that he will not continue to charter flights as necessary for his travels.

When Pope Benedict XVI traveled to Mexico/Cuba in 2012, the charter flight had 116 people on board. The Pope plus 25 others from the Vatican (5 Cardinals including the Secretary of State, the papal body guard, papal doctor, personal secretaries and other officials for liturgies and trip planning. 90 members of the international press corps also travels with the Pope on these charter flights.

It really makes more sense for him to use a charter flight(s) to accommodate his schedule, ensure security and also provide the press to be there when he arrives. (I have not confirmed this but I believe that the press traveling with the Pope are required to pay a fee, whether it is the going rate for a similar commercial flight or a reduced charge.)

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: 3MilesToWRO
Posted 2013-03-17 14:41:39 and read 3883 times.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 26):
Could it have been a Soviet type? The photo was from a visit in Poland in 1987, ie. before the local communist party was forced to throw in the towel, so I can't imagine there being too many western types parked there.

It's been in the middle of the visit, so it might indeed be Yak-40 (the painting looks LOT'ish). I don't remember what did the pope fly at then, but I certainly remember Alitalia MD-80 or similar flying over my home, however in 1997, ten years later than this photo. (Indeed, the disruption in my city was almost equal to the one after the flood a month later   )

As a matter of fact the aircraft in the background needs not to be the one actually carrying the pope. As far as I remember he didn't travel through Poland on a plane, but on a helicopter (Mi-8). I might however be wrong.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2013-03-17 16:02:17 and read 3750 times.

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 21):
While previous Popes have used chartered aircraft I think you might well see a very different approach with Pope Francis. He is a Jesuit - a small part of the Roman Catholic Church whose members take a vow of chastity, poverty and obedience. The poverty aspect of this suggests that the new Pope will almost certainly not take a chartered aircraft - in fact he might well fly economy.

Whatever people want to make of the Archbishop of Buenos Aires flying coach, that is in the past. He is now Pope with greater security concerns. If he wants to make a statement he can sit in "economy" on his trips as Pope but it will be on a chartered plane. The Vatican can "downsize" the Papal Car from a BMW or Mercedes to a Fiat or Chevy.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 31):
When Pope Benedict XVI traveled to Mexico/Cuba in 2012, the charter flight had 116 people on board. The Pope plus 25 others from the Vatican (5 Cardinals including the Secretary of State, the papal body guard, papal doctor, personal secretaries and other officials for liturgies and trip planning. 90 members of the international press corps also travels with the Pope on these charter flights.

It really makes more sense for him to use a charter flight(s) to accommodate his schedule, ensure security and also provide the press to be there when he arrives. (I have not confirmed this but I believe that the press traveling with the Pope are required to pay a fee, whether it is the going rate for a similar commercial flight or a reduced charge.)

The journalists pay to fly with the Pope, they don't get a free ride. Certainly helps defray the cost an Alitaia 777.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: kanban
Posted 2013-03-17 21:19:45 and read 3392 times.

Donald Trump will allow use of his private jet for the publicity.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: francoflier
Posted 2013-03-17 23:49:57 and read 3248 times.

The Pope is not the one who makes travel arrangement, and I'm not even sure he has the authority to change much about it.

Practically, I can't see him travelling in a commercial flight, I don't see how the security risk could ever be managed, not to mention that it would cost as much or more than chartering an aircraft.

JPII suffered an assassination attempt not too many years ago, and the situation hasn't much improved since then.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: KD5MDK
Posted 2013-03-18 01:59:55 and read 3148 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 35):
I'm not even sure he has the authority to change much about it.

Practically, I can't see him travelling in a commercial flight, I don't see how the security risk could ever be managed, not to mention that it would cost as much or more than chartering an aircraft.

1) Who has the authority to tell him no?

2) How much harder is his security than the Queen of England's? She's has at least as many attempts on her life.

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-03-18 02:22:38 and read 3107 times.

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 31):
When Pope Benedict XVI traveled to Mexico/Cuba in 2012, the charter flight had 116 people on board.
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
The journalists pay to fly with the Pope, they don't get a free ride. Certainly helps defray the cost an Alitaia 777.

The combination of these two points is why Francis is going to be on chartered flights, like his predecessors.

The Jesuits take pride in being well-educated, surely he is capable of doing the math (or at least understanding it if it is presented to him).

Topic: RE: Will Pope Francis Fly Regularly Scheduled Flights?
Username: jumpjets
Posted 2013-03-18 10:41:49 and read 2753 times.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 37):
The combination of these two points is why Francis is going to be on chartered flights, like his predecessors.

Perhaps we should let His Holiness get through his inaugural mass tomorrow before he worries too much about how he is going to get around the world - should he indeed decide that travel is high on his list of priorities. It is widely reported he will be going to Rio for world youth day later in the year, and I guess those arrangements are already booked, so it may be a little while before any real evidence as to his travelling style can be gleaned.


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