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Topic: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: readytotaxi
Posted 2013-03-23 11:22:40 and read 21607 times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-21904501

"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

Nice to see that they put their hands up, imagine if it were Windsor Castle !!  Wow!  

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: KL911
Posted 2013-03-23 11:46:02 and read 21419 times.

Lol, so let people think twice before buying or renting a very cheap property next to an airport.  

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: as739x
Posted 2013-03-23 13:23:47 and read 20882 times.

Mrs Hills added: "The airport have been fantastic and came to fix the damage almost immediately."

Nice to hear. And a first I have read where the article ends on a positive note.

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2013-03-23 13:31:56 and read 20790 times.

Okay.

This happened about 3 1/2 to 4 miles from the threshold, when a landing jet would be at least 2,000 ft above the house.

And the 'vortex' blew holes in the roof, and parts of the roof down.

I'm surprised the house hasn't fallen down before.

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: bristolflyer
Posted 2013-03-23 14:25:34 and read 20433 times.

Anyone want to guess what would happen if such a vortex hit a person?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: OA260
Posted 2013-03-23 14:42:02 and read 20287 times.

This kind of stuff has happened quite a few times over the years. Glad she was reasonable about it. Seems like quick action kept any complaints at bay.

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: N243NW
Posted 2013-03-23 16:09:30 and read 18579 times.

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

What do they mean by that? Is it an instance where the wake vortices don't break up and survive long enough to drift down to the ground?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: sprout5199
Posted 2013-03-23 16:35:45 and read 18002 times.

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

Really? I thought every airplane created a vortex, as it is a by-product of generating lift.

Dan in Jupiter

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: transaeroyyz
Posted 2013-03-23 18:04:21 and read 16500 times.

did they determine witch plane/airline it was?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: captainstefan
Posted 2013-03-23 18:14:44 and read 16328 times.

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 11):
did they determine witch plane/airline it was?

My guess is that it would be nearly impossible to determine it - If the aircraft are (as stated above) at about 2000 ft. AGL, that would mean a wake vortex would hit the ground about 4 minutes after the aircraft passes overhead (they typically drop at 500 ft/min). Also of note, their descent rate and horizontal travel (about 5 knots perpendicular to the path of the aircraft) can both be affected by even the slightest wind. You could narrow it down to a handful of planes with some exhausting research, but unless you were watching the event unfold it's unlikely you'd be able to pin down a culprit.

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: type-rated
Posted 2013-03-23 19:33:44 and read 15074 times.

I always associate aircraft vortexes with coming off the wingtips and descending down to the ground where they roll off to the sides depending on wind direction on the ground. The vortexes I am talking about are the kind you see coming off the wingtips of aircraft on rainy days. When a large aircraft is flying low and slow with everything hanging out (flaps, gear, etc). on a still wind day the vortexes are at their strongest.

And as stated earlier, all aircraft generate these vortexes as a by product of flight. What is the U.S. English term for Vortex? I know we use that term here in the U.S. but I am wondering if it has another meaning in the U.K. that we are missing?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2013-03-23 20:05:47 and read 14591 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 13):

Wing tip vorticies, wake turbulance

I thought the worst wake turbulance was behind an aircraft that is slow, clean and Heavy...

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: Unclekoru
Posted 2013-03-23 20:09:00 and read 14532 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 4):
This happened about 3 1/2 to 4 miles from the threshold, when a landing jet would be at least 2,000 ft above the house.

And the 'vortex' blew holes in the roof, and parts of the roof down.

I'm surprised the house hasn't fallen down before.

Assuming a normal profile, 3.5 - 4 nm from the threshold is more like 1000-1200 feet above threshold crossing height.

[Edited 2013-03-23 20:11:01]

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: N243NW
Posted 2013-03-23 20:13:16 and read 14466 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 13):
When a large aircraft is flying low and slow with everything hanging out (flaps, gear, etc). on a still wind day the vortexes are at their strongest.

Not quite, as web500sjc has noted.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 14):
slow, clean and Heavy...

Also, the word vortex is a tricky one - plural is "vortices." I used to cringe every time I heard my aerospace engineering professors (one in particular) refer to a vortex as a "vortice"...

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: hotplane
Posted 2013-03-24 02:24:26 and read 10890 times.

I live very close to one of the approaches at Heathrow and have noticed that 757s and 777-300ERs seem much worse for lwake lingering around afterwards.

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: crownvic
Posted 2013-03-24 03:42:16 and read 9873 times.

I live underneath the approach path to MCO Orlando Intl. Acft pass over approx 1500 ft agl...Guaranteed almost everytime in calm wind conditions when a 757 passes over I count about 30 seconds and the wake vorticies swirl around in the trees all around my house and come down into my driveway and most times into the garage stirring up leaves....The sound is unique like a whistle too...Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: Alsatian
Posted 2013-03-24 04:17:59 and read 9362 times.

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 12):
You could narrow it down to a handful of planes with some exhausting research, but unless you were watching the event unfold it's unlikely you'd be able to pin down a culprit.
Quoting crownvic (Reply 18):
Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!

If that was indeed a 757 (nothing proved yet), it could be easy to identify the airliner involved. Which airlines are still flying 757 to LHR ? AA UA FI KC . More ?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: pilotanthony
Posted 2013-03-24 08:01:40 and read 5834 times.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 18):
Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!

Yeah the 757 is known to cause severe wake turbulence, therefore its classed as 'HEAVY' in the wake turbulence category's. Pretty interesting!

Tony

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: type-rated
Posted 2013-03-24 11:07:16 and read 3065 times.

I always was taught that while wake turbulence is always behind an aircraft it's worse behind large aircraft as in when they are flying their approaches to landing. And I can't tell you how many safety videos I have seen on the subject. But then I learned to fly in the late 60's-early 70's. Maybe something has changed along the way with research showing different?

Now when are you going to find an airliner clean flying slow? Below 10K feet, but usually when they are below 10K they are landing and already have some flaps deployed. So you'd find clean mainly on departure.

And it wasn't too long after the 757 came out that it was mentioned that the 757 had worse wake turbulence possibilities than most other jets that size and to be very careful when following them.

If you look at wake turbulence accidents, most of them take place while following an aircraft on final approach.

[Edited 2013-03-24 11:08:05]

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: U2380
Posted 2013-03-24 11:21:17 and read 2871 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 19):
So you'd find clean mainly on departure.

Most large transport aircraft will never be 'clean' on departure. They will almost always have some degree of high lift devices deployed. Attempting to take off with a clean configuration will result in a take off configuration warning in most types I believe.

If I recall correctly, trailing edge high lift devices destructively interfere with vortices, resulting in lesser wake turbulence than a comparable aircraft in a clean configuration. Of course it's far more complex that that, as with everything in aerodynamics, but I can't recall any more detail than that.   

[Edited 2013-03-24 11:22:11]

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: goosebayguy
Posted 2013-03-24 14:15:42 and read 2490 times.

Interesting that the airport sets aside £15m a year to pay fpr such damage. I guess its an equal amount paid by all airlines into the kitty? Am surprised we have not heard such stories before or from other airports. Do other airports have similar schemes?

Topic: RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!
Username: TonyBurr
Posted 2013-03-24 18:24:34 and read 2095 times.

Does anyone know what flight, airline it was? Coming from?


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