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Topic: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Triple7Lr
Posted 2013-03-19 07:51:27 and read 9840 times.

It's definitely geared towards business customers. I'm not sure if I like it, don't get me wrong the ad is nice and clean. But it seems like they're changing their identity and taking a more legacy approach. There's a link in the article to watch it.


http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...ising-effort/?partner=yahoofinance

I think DL still has the best advertising in the US.

[Edited 2013-03-19 07:54:25]

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-03-19 08:54:08 and read 9686 times.

I think WN finds itself in a very unique situation at the moment. It is wedged between ULCCs and legacies. Their labor costs are no longer the lowest in the industry, so they cannot lure customers by offering the lowest fares. WN now has to make the transition from a no-frills carrier to one which offers just enough frills to lure higher yielding business customers. The key for WN is adding the right balance of frills to attract high yielding business customers while simultaneously keeping costs at a minimum.

I think they are better positioned than the legacies from this respect. It is difficult for legacies to pull back on premium services or frills without facing a backlash from premium customers or FF's. However, WN is in the advantageous position of expanding the frills it offers to passengers as long as they are smart about it. They need to make sure the added costs of additional frills can be absorbed by higher fares. I think this is one area where the legacies made a miscalculation in their business plans.....too much frills without capturing the appropriate levels of revenue.

The change in WN's advertising is just part of their slow migration towards enhancing their product to better compete with the legacies, and lure their higher yielding passengers.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: san88
Posted 2013-03-19 09:04:18 and read 9655 times.

Direct link to the new AD

http://youtu.be/IKVxuBeEQTc

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2013-03-19 09:45:22 and read 9495 times.

I like it....it's warm, emphsizes the practical and does not promise the moon. It is totally congruent to their product and speaks to their business demo: entrapanuers, field sales people, indipendent contractors/consultants, etc. Their future is with FF's who travel domesticly and work with limited travel budgets.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: av8orwalk
Posted 2013-03-19 09:56:40 and read 9430 times.

I actually kinda love it!

Great job, WN.

Cheers,
Drew MCO

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-19 10:01:59 and read 9423 times.

I haven't see a WN crew with any of the uniforms featured in the ad. The pilots are all sporting leather jackets, no hats and the FA's wear stuff that makes them look like they should be chasing foul balls at an MLB game.

The commercial is pretty lame. Everyone is moving forward, time waits for no one. Southwest still doesn't serve large areas of the country that the legacy carriers do with their express product. They lack transcon nonstops that business travelers use and if they did the product is not comparable to what the competition is offering.

Perhaps now that they are self declared "largest" then they can stop claiming to be the poor airline that needs a handout in slots and gates.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: jsnww81
Posted 2013-03-19 10:32:23 and read 9312 times.

I had to turn it off as soon as I realized they were using Fun.'s "What Do I Stand For" in the background. In the past 10 years I don't think another song has come out that I hate more. For no good reason - I just absolutely can't stand it.

Personal opinion aside, this is just another step in Southwest's evolution. As much as I hate the song, "What Do I Stand For" is a good moniker for them right now. They are very much trying to figure out who they're going to be and how they're going to be positioned. I grew up in Dallas in the 1980s and have fond memories of flying WN on intra-state hops. I hardly recognize this massive airline that flies to LGA, BOS, ATL and MSP. That being said, this ad doesn't over-promise, which is one thing Southwest has always been very, very good at - consistent service delivery.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 5):
Perhaps now that they are self declared "largest" then they can stop claiming to be the poor airline that needs a handout in slots and gates.

Have to agree. I have a great deal of respect for Southwest, but they continue to overplay the "scrappy underdog" card whenever it suits them. Scrappy underdog they ain't anymore.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: sdoyon
Posted 2013-03-19 11:17:17 and read 9211 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 6):
Personal opinion aside, this is just another step in Southwest's evolution. As much as I hate the song, "What Do I Stand For" is a good moniker for them right now. They are very much trying to figure out who they're going to be and how they're going to be positioned.

Just so the correct info is out there, the name of the song is "Some Nights"

As for the ad itself, I really like it. It presents WN in a more "grown up" way without being stuffy.

[Edited 2013-03-19 11:18:14]

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-19 11:19:45 and read 9203 times.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 6):
They are very much trying to figure out who they're going to be and how they're going to be positioned.

I think they know, actually: WN wants to be the carrier of choice in markets where it is big or, preferably, biggest - Baltimore, Saint Louis, Nashville, Austin, etc. That explains a lot of the cuts we've seen like the very short flights, which don't cater to O&D, and northeast-Florida, as well as the adds of BOS, EWR, DCA, etc.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: seven3seven
Posted 2013-03-19 11:31:25 and read 9157 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
That explains a lot of the cuts we've seen like the very short flights, which don't cater to O&D

Actually they cut routes which have very little O and D.

And once again MCDU is like the kid in class who didnt get invited to the party.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: WWTRAVELER99
Posted 2013-03-19 11:34:12 and read 9136 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 5):
Perhaps now that they are self declared "largest" then they can stop claiming to be the poor airline that needs a handout in slots and gates.

Bitter party of one your table is ready.

Wow so Southwest is not allowed to present a case to gain access to airports they would like to serve. But yet all the legacy carries can ask and nothing is wrong with that. USair has how many slots at DCA? But they still request for the DCA-OKC slot. What they dont have enough? But i suppose in your eyes this is ok? Better that a legacy get the slot than WN, or B6 and anyother non-legacy carrier?


WW

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-03-19 11:38:44 and read 9115 times.

I haven't seen them yet and even when I do, I'll probably take the 5th. and not opine. Besides the wanted results for a company, another barometer regarding the popularity or lack thereof a commercial is to check out the commercial blog review sites, Facebook, Twitter and there's one go to site for finding out the likeability of a commercial.
http://www.commercialsihate.com

disclaimer: The listing of the above site has no personal bearing on my opinions. I'm putting it out there for fun!
I sure as heck hope none of our commercials merrit a thread on this site. And for the non-av site I'll do a thread on the commercials I hate and luv!   

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-19 11:46:18 and read 9080 times.

Quoting WWTRAVELER99 (Reply 10):
Wow so Southwest is not allowed to present a case to gain access to airports they would like to serve.

WN has used the "woe is me, we are just a little airline that needs access to those slots" argument for a very long time. As the largest "domestic" carrier they should take a back seat in slot awards to airlines like B6, Spirit and VX.

WN is saying in this ad that they are the biggest. Should WN be required to give up gates/slots to the legacy carriers in locations that the legacies might be interested in adding service? You would think that is unfair I suppose? As,e logic you are using for the gifting of slits to the nations largest "domestic" airline.

The ad is really awful. They could be selling cell phone service, insurance, GE corp or some other entity that is proclaiming to be moving forward. Maybe next they will try "rising". That was also a smash hit

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: sdoyon
Posted 2013-03-19 11:52:38 and read 9051 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
WN is saying in this ad that they are the biggest. Should WN be required to give up gates/slots to the legacy carriers in locations that the legacies might be interested in adding service? You would think that is unfair I suppose?

Seeing that a) for the most part, WN does not operate in slot constrained airports and b) when they are, they have few slots, this point is moot.

For example:
- DCA: 15 slots (including FL)
- LGA: 27 slots (including FL)

Why would they be "forced to give up" slots when they are one of the smallest players at each airport? They want more because they clearly can make $$$ with more slots, and when slot proceedings happen, OF COURSE they're going to bid. Hello free market, this is capitalism.


I'm sorry, but your logic is severely flawed.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-19 12:22:29 and read 8948 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
Should WN be required to give up gates/slots to the legacy carriers in locations that the legacies might be interested in adding service? You would think that is unfair I suppose? As,e logic you are using for the gifting of slits to the nations largest "domestic" airline.

At any slot controlled airport where WN has more slots than a legacy who wants to increase service, I'll agree that WN should give up the slots. There are no such airports.

At any airport with no available gates where WN has more gates than a legacy who wants to increase service, I'll agree that WN should give up the gates. There are no such airports.

At any slot controlled airport where UA has more slots than WN, I'll agree that UA should give up the slots. Those airports would include EWR, DCA, JFK and LGA.

At any airport with no available gates where UA has more gates than WN, I'll agree that UA should give up the gates. Those airports would include ORD, DEN and LAX.

That wasn't very hard.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-19 12:34:12 and read 8907 times.

They might as well change the name of the airline to «southwest.com» if that's how they're going to continue to display their trade name in commercials.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-03-19 12:43:57 and read 8886 times.

It's a nice enough ad I suppose, but the real question is how does all that mumbo jumbo translate into reality? How are you as an airline going to take me forward?

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-03-19 12:59:58 and read 8833 times.

With regards to the new ad, I'm somewhat torn. While I certainly agree that WN of 2013 is certainly not the WN of 1993 in terms of overall network & dynamics; that said, the older-humor oriented commericals still have a sense of uniqueness and now somewhat a sense of now-heritage. If WN is indeed discontinuing making and/or airing the old-style commericals, I personally, will miss them.

Maybe WN can do what Geico insurance does w/its commericals; air 2 or 3 different style ads concurrently, each aimed at various audiences/demographics.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-03-19 14:33:42 and read 8656 times.

Working in advertising and being an Apple fanboy (though my phone is an exception), I have to say this: It reminds me a lot of the famous Apple "Here's To The Crazy Ones" advertisement, which was also done by TBWA/Chiat/Day. Here's a link to the Apple ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFEarBzelBs

The differences between the Apple and WN ads are simple: Color instead of black & white, normal people instead of celebrities, and Fun.'s "Some Nights" (which I happen to think fits WN very well) instead of classical production music. Everything else is along the same lines. And as is usually the case with TBWA/Chiat/Day (which also was a finalist for the UA business that went to mcgarrybowen in the end), this is high-quality work.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2013-03-19 15:03:25 and read 8580 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):

W

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 18):

I like your idea! Interestingly enough Allstate also runs the two types of adds. Our comedy spoof adds are cool and should be continued with the new campaign. I got to view the new commercial on SWA Life. Couldn't get audio but was impressed with the commercial nonetheless. I liked the ballerina and the baby was cute. And from a self interest point I hope we keep the other commercials because many of them feature us. I want my 15 minutes of fame, of course this is pending good behavior.   

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: 737tanker
Posted 2013-03-19 16:37:39 and read 8389 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 5):
I haven't see a WN crew with any of the uniforms featured in the ad. The pilots are all sporting leather jackets, no hats and the FA's wear stuff that makes them look like they should be chasing foul balls at an MLB game.

The Pilot in that ad is actually wearing the official uniform. Some guys do wear it, mine stays in the closet. The uniform that the F/A is wearing is the new F/A unoform that is one of the options. I'm seeing more F/As wearing that uniform everyday.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-03-19 17:07:51 and read 8316 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 5):
I haven't see a WN crew with any of the uniforms featured in the ad. The pilots are all sporting leather jackets, no hats and the FA's wear stuff that makes them look like they should be chasing foul balls at an MLB game.

When was the last time you saw a WN crew?

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 9):
once again MCDU is like the kid in class who didnt get invited to the party.

No kidding. And apparently doesn't keep up with the current happenings at WN and bases the bashing on the old Southwest.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 21):
I LOVE the new ads! I can be FUNLuving on the plane, I don't need it to be in a commercial. I think the image is where we NEED to go to survive,,, the days of polos and shorts and white tennis shoes needs to be over.

I dunno. I'm torn. I'm all for changing with the times and heading in a direction for a healthy future. But it's hard to see a piece of their identity go away every day.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: WNCrew
Posted 2013-03-19 17:46:34 and read 8233 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 23):
But it's hard to see a piece of their identity go away every day.

...but everyone seems to forget that as of around '80 everyone wore full 3-piece suits!!! It was hot pants, then formal wear (several variations), THEN casual wear in the 90's.. it's not as if SWA has always been tacky-wear. For many years we wore dressy uniforms, if not dressy then at LEAST coordinated and polished.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-03-19 17:52:12 and read 8201 times.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 24):

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 23):
But it's hard to see a piece of their identity go away every day.

...but everyone seems to forget that as of around '80 everyone wore full 3-piece suits!!! It was hot pants, then formal wear (several variations), THEN casual wear in the 90's.. it's not as if SWA has always been tacky-wear. For many years we wore dressy uniforms, if not dressy then at LEAST coordinated and polished.


Whoa! Haha...I know. I've spoken to folks who have been around a while. I'm speaking more generally. The uniform changes is just one example.  

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-19 19:45:15 and read 7460 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 21):
When was the last time you saw a WN crew?

See them quite often in DEN and around LAX. Flag ties, leather jackets, tennis shoes and polos. In fact last month I was at our training center for a check ride. Southwest stays at the same hotel. Can't miss them even if I tried, and I do try.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-19 19:47:28 and read 7715 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 24):
See them quite often in DEN and around LAX. Flag ties, leather jackets, tennis shoes and polos. In fact last month I was at our training center for a check ride. Southwest stays at the same hotel. Can't miss them even if I tried, and I do try.

I don't mean to start a flame fest, but why does it matter? Pilots spend most of their time locked up in a cage at the pointy end of the aircraft where I can't see them. Who am I to say that they can't fly in their underwear if they like?

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: 9lflyguy
Posted 2013-03-19 22:40:18 and read 6902 times.

Great ad WN. I love what they are becoming. Its kinda like Legacy with a twist. And that's wha.t WN and us as passengers need. WN is growing up. Expect more of this. Excellent song choice as well. Some Nights by Fun is one of my favorite songs.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: jethawk
Posted 2013-03-19 23:15:29 and read 6886 times.

They can try all they want, but WN just will never be able to beat Delta's "Keep Climbing" series

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: AllegiantFlyer
Posted 2013-03-19 23:58:24 and read 6770 times.

I think this ad just has to many parts i it that where influenced by the UA adds.For this reason i really wont even try to like it as WN cant even find their own way to advertise,so they steal ideas. Im saying this as a neutral not a hater of WN,although they aren't the image they use to be. Also i think WN is starting to advertise more again because now that AA is putting out more commercials more often. Coming from a person who lives in suburban Arizona, the only airline advertisements i saw for the past 3 years have been WN when other airlines started putting out other advertisements i never got to see them because they dont even try to advertise here. But i would say in the last 6-5 months the WN ads have cut down to just about nothing, i havent seen one on TV for awhile. Than a merger was announced and AA put out a ton of commercials nationwide,including here. (this is coming from a 14 year old) my friends started flying on AA rather than WN because they saw advertisements and their parents did the booking because lets be honest, the majority of the people don't know much about the airline industry so they probably don't even know the name of more than a handful of airlines,so when they see propaganda they book it. in conclusion im saying that WN has changed alot in the past 5 years and they aren't what they use to be anymore. I use to be excited to listen to funny jokes by flight attendants and not have to connect in a hub city. Now employees rarely say something funny, and they started making a hub network or what they call a "focus city"also they added a totally ugly interior with an extra row. for these reasons Southwest has turned into just "One of the other guys" when it comes to flying for me . Now that AA has started advertising more than they have i think that they have noticed a decline in ticket sales so they started what they use to do,maybe its because they are afraid that after the merger that people will start noting they aren't what they use to be stop flying? I personally never understood why people want to fly cross country on a 73G when they could take a wide body or at least 757. Anyways im done with my ranting tonight. Have a good wednsday  

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: msp747
Posted 2013-03-20 06:53:25 and read 5597 times.

Quoting jethawk (Reply 27):
They can try all they want, but WN just will never be able to beat Delta's "Keep Climbing" series

Those are great ads. I love the campaign. It doesn't hurt when you have Donald Sutherland doing the narrating.

I have to admit, I was surprised the first time I saw the new WN ad. It did seem like they were trying to act more like a legacy carrier. Then again, WN has changed a lot over the past few years and changing the commercials isn't a bad thing.

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
Their labor costs are no longer the lowest in the industry, so they cannot lure customers by offering the lowest fares

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think labor costs at WN have been at the levels of a typical low cost carrier for quite some time. I think WN has always paid better thanks to their strong union presence. I just think they offset their costs by growing at a very fast pace for years and cutting costs on everything else. Now that they are a coast to coast airline, it's harder to grow at a pace like that

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: barney captain
Posted 2013-03-20 07:51:06 and read 5324 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 24):
See them quite often in DEN and around LAX. Flag ties, leather jackets, tennis shoes and polos. In fact last month I was at our training center for a check ride. Southwest stays at the same hotel. Can't miss them even if I tried, and I do try.



Nice.


Curious since we haven't had DEN overnights since the base opened in October of last year. So I'm not sure who you were attempting to "miss". Additionally, we are hardly the only airline wearing leather jackets, and I haven't seen a "polo" in a very long time.

[Edited 2013-03-20 08:02:47]

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: phxa340
Posted 2013-03-20 08:22:54 and read 5240 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 24):

Ok , now I am wondering how WN has hurt you in such a bad way. I think WN is walking a fine line with these commercials. They have a loyal customer base and need to be careful of isolating them. The majority of Business travelers have and will always prefer a legacy carrier as they offer a biz class and international travel. Personally , no matter what WN does I will always enjoy the crews I get as I have yet to get a bad one. Either way WN is just fine - albeit with slightly more challenging times ahead.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-20 08:33:22 and read 5218 times.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 31):
The majority of Business travelers have and will always prefer a legacy carrier as they offer a biz class and international travel.

Maybe, but the vast majority of business travel isn't international, and if it's a 50 seater (or probably even a CR7) versus mainline, I'll take the mainline aircraft. They are so much more comfortable, and I won't have the 20 minute wait for my bag to be brought around.

Most frequent WN travelers have a "backup" legacy of choice for travel to cities not served or not well-served by WN, but few business travelers in large WN cities--which don't tend to be mega-hubs--can be loyal to a single carrier regardless of whether the carrier of choice is WN or a legacy.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: EricR
Posted 2013-03-20 08:34:19 and read 5206 times.

Quoting msp747 (Reply 29):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think labor costs at WN have been at the levels of a typical low cost carrier for quite some time. I think WN has always paid better thanks to their strong union presence. I just think they offset their costs by growing at a very fast pace for years and cutting costs on everything else. Now that they are a coast to coast airline, it's harder to grow at a pace like that



Correct. I was referring to how they compared against legacy carriers since WN has been making modifications to their business plan to attract higher yielding business passengers from legacy carriers.

There is an interesting site that compares airline costs by carrier. The data is a little old, but shows trends from 2002 to 2010.

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/airline_data_comparisons.html

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-20 11:17:29 and read 5067 times.

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 9):
And once again MCDU is like the kid in class who didnt get invited to the party.

When were personal attacks allowed on this forum? We couldn't say "battery" on the 787 thread yet this drivel gets through?

The ads that WN have created are to try to make everyone forget about the bags fly free campaign. Reason being is that the bag fees are on their way.

As to not seeing WN at the hotel in Denver, those must have been impostors staying the hotel near our training center. Or maybe they were crews that were laying over due to an irrops? Or do you guys not have irrops?

I don't care what costume the WN crew wear. Personally I think the sneakers, polos and shorts look bad and not a fan of the ties and bomber jackets. That is just my opinion and what I see most every WN crew wearing. My beef is that they didn't include the real WN uniform in the advertising. What they presented were professional looking uniforms when in reality you get a summer camp and O club outfits in real life. Sell one image, deliver another. Just more of the contradiction that is WN.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2013-03-20 12:30:40 and read 4977 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 34):
What they presented were professional looking uniforms

You can say what you want, the formal uniforms are becoming much more common.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 34):
Just more of the contradiction that is WN.

And when you say stuff like this, your argument is thrown out.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2013-03-20 13:11:36 and read 4915 times.

I think a certain person would complain if WN pulled up and started throwing gold bars on his lawn. We'd hear a rant about the level of flatness of his lawn being ruined while completely ignoring the million dollars of gold.

WN has long had a large % of their customers being people who fly for work and not pleasure. This new focus on them is a response to the market forces that make it worth while to chase every last one of them. FF programs at the legacies are getting harder to earn status, perks are lower, and service is not the same. Mergers are breaking loyalty to a name. Other airlines cutting unprofitable routes and downsizing others mean more opportunities.

Lets not forget that this is likely a warmup. WN (and others) likely smell blood in the water with the AA/US merger. I'm sure they expect a good many loyal FF passengers to be broken loose from both airlines as the merger progresses.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-03-20 15:00:16 and read 4807 times.

Saw the ads in question last night while watching NCAA Tournament coverage. I wasn't particularly impressed.

Right off the bat, I knew it was a WN ad, but it just seemed... wrong. What I was seeing and hearing does not match my idea of Southwest.

I'll admit, I do not like WN much. But, I do respect their success and some decisions they've made (as a supply chain person, their ability to operate effectively with just a single aircraft platform makes a great case study). I also think they do well with their target segments. This ad... makes me question that. It came across like WN is trying too hard to be another airline.

As others have said, DL has far and away the best ad campaign running amongst the airlines in the States. They continue to knock it out of the park with each successive Keep Climbing ad.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Barney Captain
Posted 2013-03-20 16:04:07 and read 4757 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 34):
As to not seeing WN at the hotel in Denver, those must have been impostors staying the hotel near our training center. Or maybe they were crews that were laying over due to an irrops? Or do you guys not have irrops?

Sure. But we use two hotels close to the airport for irregular ops. The hotel near your training center is only listed as a third alternate. Sorry our perceived presence is such an irritant to you.

[Edited 2013-03-20 16:05:29]

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: wwtraveler99
Posted 2013-03-22 10:37:06 and read 4185 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 12):
Should WN be required to give up gates/slots to the legacy carriers in locations that the legacies might be interested in adding service? You would think that is unfair I suppose? As,e logic you are using for the gifting of slits to the nations largest "domestic" airline.

So tell me what airports WN can give up gates or slots that the Legacies need?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 34):
The ads that WN have created are to try to make everyone forget about the bags fly free campaign. Reason being is that the bag fees are on their way.

Are you now a part of the hHQ team making these decisions? If not then you are only speculating. Is WN never going to have bags fees? Probably not. But a fee for every bags is still a ways away.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 34):
My beef is that they didn't include the real WN uniform in the advertising. What they presented were professional looking uniforms when in reality you get a summer camp and O club outfits in real life.

How would you know what they were since you avoid them like the plague?


WW

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2013-03-22 11:14:00 and read 4143 times.

That's interesting. I flew WN yesterday for my first time (2 flights). I was pleasantly surprised, since I had been told that Southwest was the Ryanair of the US (or maybe Spirit?   )... and it couldn't be more wrong... everybody got into the hand luggage they wanted, free snack and drink, FAs were friendly, no annoying adds and I found the boarding process quite smart (I had no idea how it worked so I ended up checking in very late and in group C and even in a middle seat I had enough space... still it is funny to ask WN's representatives how "this works" like it was the first time I boarded a plane). Much better than the stupid boarding process at the Virgin America flight next to me with the "We welcome our awesome Group A, our fantastic Group D..." (sorry, I am European so I can't handle this kind of "friendly" corporativism... I guess in places like California it might work very well though).

Since both flights were from major urban centers, mid-week in March, there were tons of suits and ties (majority I would say).

However, I felt there were two things that didn't match up. First, while the cabin was neat and clean, the "hearts" and the LUV stuff was a bit weird when you mix that with suits. Then, the livery... whenever I see a WN plane I feel it is a holiday charter going to Puerto Rico or Orlando. I think in that sense companies like JetBlue do it much better, and have a fresher image that targets a more sophisticated customer. I was thinking about that in the plane, how they would really need to "refresh" their image (I understand the "LUV" is their logo and image, so I am not saying to completely disregard it, but just "clean it")... and then I just saw this thread... I really do think the ad is in the right direction.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2013-03-22 11:32:38 and read 4094 times.

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 22):
It was hot pants

Once upon a time (Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to 1972)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU6t8GidFtY

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: spartanmjf
Posted 2013-03-22 13:08:57 and read 3997 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):
I understand the "LUV" is their logo and image

LUV is also their stock symbol and an abbreviation for their 'home' airport of Dallas Love Field (DAL).

WN continues to be the only airline in the US where even the lowest fare passenger has the freedom to change their plans without paying a penalty (and to basically get full credit for a flight that they cancel, albeit in the form of credit against a future flight).

Ding!

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2013-03-22 13:18:38 and read 3970 times.

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 42):

WN continues to be the only airline in the US where even the lowest fare passenger has the freedom to change their plans without paying a penalty (and to basically get full credit for a flight that they cancel, albeit in the form of credit against a future flight).

Cape Air too! I am sure you're referring to legacies and major carriers but Cape Air has the exact same policy as Southwest, it is a welcome change and a breath of fresh air.

Free checked luggage, and you do not have to pay a cancellation or change fee, just the fare difference.

I thought the ad was very nice. It is very different from the sense of humor play I am used to seeing, but you're seeing a more corporate image come back to Southwest especially with the new interiors. Well done Southwest, keep it up. Look forward to flying on your brand new 737-800 next week to DAL!

Alex

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-22 13:34:37 and read 3958 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 40):
First, while the cabin was neat and clean, the "hearts" and the LUV stuff was a bit weird when you mix that with suits.

How is the heart on the bulkhead any different from the American eagle on the bulkhead (or the HP sunset or any of the myriad other logos that appear on bulkheads)? Heck, US was letting Mesa fly CR9s around with HP logos on the bulkhead for 4 or 5 years after the merger.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: luvfa
Posted 2013-03-22 14:44:28 and read 3876 times.

To answer this debate once and for all: As far as uniforms go, formal v. Polo's, we have both! I wear the polo's. As far as announcements go, straight v. Jokes, we do both, ( depending on the situation). Southwest gives us the freedom to be who we are in providing our best customer service!

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: irish
Posted 2013-03-22 21:08:41 and read 3723 times.

The video also showed a mechanic in his everyday uniform.
Here is a ad that they are doing in MKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKGpMzQ1TMI

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: F9animal
Posted 2013-03-22 21:14:18 and read 3716 times.

I do like it. I do however love their funny commercials. "Wanna Get Away" commercials were brilliant! WN can run any ad campaign, and get cheeks in their seats.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: cjg225
Posted 2013-03-23 08:16:26 and read 3555 times.

The more I see the commercial during this year's NCAA tournament coverage, the more I hate it. I'll admit, I am somewhat biased in the sense that I HATE "Fun" (the group that does the background music for the ad; AWFUL, ATROCIOUS lead singer).

And it still just does not make any sense to me. The message and the visuals are disconnected to me. With the exception, maybe, of the woman walking into the board room, what the heck does what they're showing have ANYTHING to do with their message?

I don't see WN attracting that much more of the higher-yield business passengers unless companies start forcing their employees to use WN because of cost. Still, even then, the developed relations with the legacy carriers should overcome that.

I can't fault WN for trying, but I think they need to stick to their traditional strategy.

[Edited 2013-03-23 08:55:02]

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-03-23 09:51:41 and read 3460 times.

I like the mechanic giving the engine a good ole pat on the back  

Not a bad commercial.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-23 10:50:13 and read 3412 times.

Watched the ad a few times now. I'm pretty much indifferent. The fact that people are talking about it doesn't hurt in the least. Is it Delta quality? No...but they aren't targeting the same group with the ads. DL is more elegant and timeless to a point. WN's is more about talking to the small business person or middle class traveler that isn't concerned about much more than saving money and getting from A to Z.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: MKENut
Posted 2013-03-24 16:28:32 and read 3099 times.

Quoting irish (Reply 46):
The video also showed a mechanic in his everyday uniform.
Here is a ad that they are doing in MKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKGpM...Q1TMI

I like the "Wheels up Milwaukee" commercial campaign. It shows that Southwest is committed to MKE IMHO. I have yet to see the commercial mentioned by the OP in the local MKE Market.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-24 17:20:13 and read 3028 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 50):
WN's is more about talking to the small business person or middle class traveler that isn't concerned about much more than saving money and getting from A to Z.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Aren't most business travelers, at least those who are not constrained by a corporate contract, buying mostly on price and schedule? Most of those I know certainly are.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Atrude777
Posted 2013-03-24 17:49:40 and read 2966 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 50):
WN's is more about talking to the small business person or middle class traveler that isn't concerned about much more than saving money and getting from A to Z.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 52):

I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Aren't most business travelers, at least those who are not constrained by a corporate contract, buying mostly on price and schedule? Most of those I know certainly are.

I'd say you're both right...

ouboy79 in the sense that yes, WN caters usually to the business travelers who are cost concise of their spending and doesn't need clubs, first class seats, the "extras" that most legacies offer.

Cubsrule is also correct in saying most business travelers ARE in fact buying on price and schedule.

I suppose it's a mix of the two. Southwest wants all types of customers quite obviously but are dedicated to those who are willing to shell out the most money, that typically is business travelers.

Alex

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-03-25 07:47:21 and read 2729 times.

I just realized courtesy of Cranky Flier that the song "Some nights", in the ad, has the line "what do I stand for?", which could not better capture what WN and their brand campaign is now. This is my favorite WN ad, which encapsulated everything WN was, and perhaps should be again, early on in its development: smart, sassy, maverick (today's WN is anything but), and on time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7JApjgIGw

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: jreuschl
Posted 2013-03-25 09:10:02 and read 2611 times.

Ideally, to cater to the business crowd, they could have implemented a few of the AirTran business class seats. They offered relatively cheap upgrades and prices for business class. However, WN wouldn't want to give up a few seats for a few larger ones.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2013-03-25 10:02:10 and read 2520 times.

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 55):
Ideally, to cater to the business crowd, they could have implemented a few of the AirTran business class seats. They offered relatively cheap upgrades and prices for business class. However, WN wouldn't want to give up a few seats for a few larger ones.

That or any kind of premium seating would have been incompatible with WN's open seating policy.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-25 10:14:20 and read 2507 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 56):
That or any kind of premium seating would have been incompatible with WN's open seating policy.

I honestly don't know how the WN "starting gun" boarding process works. If a business traveler wants to sit next to a client and they aren't in the same group can than work our seating beside each other!

IMO, the lack of a premium cabin or an extra legroom product hurts WN the most with business travelers. They want to feel they are getting some special treatment for their loyalty. Not having a bigger seat, more amenities, etc are something missing at WN.

I think once the CRS is brought into the 21st century WN will assign seats, charge for bags and maybe even have a premium seating option. Of course while it doesn't have those now the WN'ites will tell everyone how great it is to NOT have them and once they get them they will tell us how brilliant is that WN added them.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: 737tanker
Posted 2013-03-25 10:57:03 and read 2460 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 56):
That or any kind of premium seating would have been incompatible with WN's open seating policy

You can have unassigned seating and a Business Class. All tthat would be needed is for the Business Class to bring their Boarding Pass, as is currently done for the 1st non-preboard. If your Boarding Pass isn't in the A number for Business Class then you don't sit htere. On through flights the F/As would make sure passengers don't move up to Business Class.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-25 10:59:05 and read 2458 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 57):
Not having a bigger seat, more amenities, etc are something missing at WN.

When I buy a business select ticket and wind up in the exit row (aisle or window, whichever I like), I have more than enough space. An exit row seat with no one next to me is better than domestic F (and certainly better than J in Europe).

And for me, the much more generous mileage accrual and companion pass are much more useful amenities than anything any legacy offers.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 57):
If a business traveler wants to sit next to a client and they aren't in the same group can than work our seating beside each other!

Try getting two seats together on a legacy with less than about two weeks advance purchase . . .

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: rangercarp
Posted 2013-03-25 10:59:39 and read 2451 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
I just realized courtesy of Cranky Flier that the song "Some nights", in the ad, has the line "what do I stand for?", which could not better capture what WN and their brand campaign is now.

I'm still not sure what I stand for oh / What do I stand for? What do I stand for? / Most nights, I don't know anymore...
I found a martyr in my bed tonight / She stops my bones from wondering just who I am, who I am, who I am / Oh, who am I? Oh, who am I? mmm... mmm...

I Generally like the ad, and the song is popular right now and very catchy... but I don't think I would use a song that questions "who I am" and "what do I stand for" in my advertizing. I might question who I am, but WN should not be.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-25 11:15:31 and read 2422 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 59):
Try getting two seats together on a legacy with less than about two weeks advance purchase . . .

In first or business it isn't usually difficult. The key is that with assigned seating a premium status passenger has the ability to contact the airline ahead of time to coordinate the seats be it F, J or Y. With WN it's line up and run with all the others in your group. Like I said I've never seen it in action but the picture I have is of those videos shot outside of a WalMart on Black Friday.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 59):
An exit row seat with no one next to me is better than domestic F (and certainly better than J in Europe).

What are the chances that the seats are open, isn't everyone else looking for the same seats? Also you run the risk of a non-reclining seat if it has dual exit windows. Does WN have planes with 4 over wing exits?

Yes, I am sure business travelers prefer to fight for this seats in coach when the other carriers will comp them roomier assigned seats.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 59):
And for me, the much more generous mileage accrual and companion pass are much more useful amenities than anything any legacy offers.

Glad it works for you. However, the legacies are doing well and posted higher revenue growth than WN last Q. The legacies offer so much more in terms of where to use the miles that WN is on the outside looking in with regards to the benefits of loyalty.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-03-25 11:20:08 and read 2411 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 57):
I think once the CRS is brought into the 21st century WN will assign seats, charge for bags and maybe even have a premium seating option. Of course while it doesn't have those now the WN'ites will tell everyone how great it is to NOT have them and once they get them they will tell us how brilliant is that WN added them.

WN tested assigned seating in multiple cities for months a few years ago, trying various methods. They paid attention to the impact on turn times and gauged customer reactions and ultimately chose not to go with assigned seating. That trial process led to the current procedure.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-25 11:26:55 and read 2401 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
However, the legacies are doing well and posted higher revenue growth than WN last Q. The legacies offer so much more in terms of where to use the miles that WN is on the outside looking in with regards to the benefits of loyalty.

Given the vastly different networks that WN and the legacies have, how could we possibly conclude that WN is doing "better" or "worse" in terms of revenue? If WN's network offers, say, 25 percent more revenue potential than legacy networks, WN isn't doing very well, but if WN's network offers, say, 25 percent less, WN is doing great.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
Yes, I am sure business travelers prefer to fight for this seats in coach when the other carriers will comp them roomier assigned seats.

I'm in a different spot than you on this, as I have/have had status on both legacies and Southwest. Given the amount of last minute buying and changing I do, I actually do a lot better with seats on WN than on legacies. 23E isn't very appealing, but if it's the last seat on the airplane, it's the one I get on a legacy. F is great, but when it is checked in full before I book, I won't be sitting in F.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
What are the chances that the seats are open, isn't everyone else looking for the same seats?

I get an exit (or a bulkhead, which I prefer on some flights) about 80 percent of the time regardless of when I purchased the ticket.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
Does WN have planes with 4 over wing exits?

Not many (yet), and I don't recline so it's a non-issue for me.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
ith WN it's line up and run with all the others in your group. Like I said I've never seen it in action but the picture I have is of those videos shot outside of a WalMart on Black Friday.

That's obvious, since what you describe hasn't been the process since roughly 2007. I see many fewer gate lice on WN than on legacies, and the process is actually more orderly. Again, I do both pretty regularly.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-25 18:11:14 and read 2291 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 63):
Given the vastly different networks that WN and the legacies have, how could we possibly conclude that WN is doing "better" or "worse" in terms of revenue?

PRASM at WN in YOY comparison is lagging the legacy carriers. Traffic isn't meeting ASM's ( maybe why you have empty seats next to you). I don't think the commercials will help attract the crowd WN is trying to find. Truly elite travelers want something more than a commercial. They want those amenities and routes WN doesn't offer. Abscence from the LA and SF area transcon market doesn't help.

The airline pilot forums have had the topic of these ads. Many here would be surprised to know that I am not the only one not enamored by WN or see the contradictory message these commercials present.



http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/fi...34500852.html?.intl=us&.lang=en-us

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 63):
I get an exit (or a bulkhead, which I prefer on some flights) about 80 percent of the time regardless of when I purchased the ticket.

Isn't that more a result of boarding group? And not being able to book that seat is a negative to many business travelers. Just like not having a premium cabin or a extra legroom section. With the LF at WN they should consider removing seats to create the premium coach product. It's revenue and they are filling the seats in the current configuration.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-03-25 18:24:33 and read 2273 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 64):
The airline pilot forums have had the topic of these ads. Many here would be surprised to know that I am not the only one not enamored by WN or see the contradictory message these commercials present.

You're right. You're not the only one with those feelings about the new commercials. Wink wink.

Your hate for everything Southwest, well that's a different story.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-03-25 18:35:15 and read 2258 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
Like I said I've never seen it in action but the picture I have is of those videos shot outside of a WalMart on Black Friday.

So, with all of your negative posts regarding Southwest, you've actually never even flown on a WN plane.      

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2013-03-25 19:12:45 and read 2220 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 61):
With WN it's line up and run with all the others in your group. Like I said I've never seen it in action but the picture I have is of those videos shot outside of a WalMart on Black Friday.

You are so full of crap it's not even funny. Judging something you've never seen in action?

Stay classy.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-25 19:36:36 and read 2191 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 64):
Isn't that more a result of boarding group?

Absolutely, which is in turn a function of fare paid or status, just like on a legacy carrier.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 64):
And not being able to book that seat is a negative to many business travelers.

Which ones?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 64):
Just like not having a premium cabin or a extra legroom section.

I will gladly trade being treated like a human being by every employee, no 50 seaters and usable reward tickets for those things.

Look, I'd love to fly F every trip. I'd love to be on a 380 every trip. I'd love a 5 course meal on every trip. Those things don't happen except for the very wealthy. It's a matter of prioritizing, and I pick respect and a guarantee of no 50 seaters over having premium cabin or an extra legroom section on some flights but not on others. Why is that choice "bad" or "wrong?" And do you know that it's atypical?

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2013-03-25 19:39:52 and read 2191 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 64):
Many here would be surprised to know that I am not the only one not enamored by WN or see the contradictory message these commercials present.

Pilots hate everything

Quoting rangercarp (Reply 60):
but WN should not be.

They should be questioning who they are, just not publicly . They're no longer the cheap, maverick underdog, and they're not a network carrier with worldwide scope. They're sorta stuck in limbo.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-25 20:06:44 and read 2157 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 68):
I will gladly trade being treated like a human being by every employee, no 50 seaters and usable reward tickets for those things.

I am not a fan of 50 seat aircraft as they have been deployed on long legs. However, you can't get to many places business is conducted on WN. The RJ's that serve the smaller cities that WN will never serve are a necessary evil. WN can't afford to do the multi station hop up and down the middle of the country like they used to do.

For the question of never having ridden WN. Yes, I did Jumpseat on them in the late 80's. Sat in the cockpit a few times and was surprised to watch the lack of checklist discipline, no CRM and in one instance a severely unstabalized approach that the captain bragged about doing after we landed. I am sure that has all changed over the years. I just haven't wanted or needed to fly WN.


You love WN. That's great. I don't and you and I will never agree on any issue regarding WN. I think they are a contradiction and have cut corners, you don't. I'm okay with that if you are.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2013-03-25 20:21:51 and read 2138 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 70):
For the question of never having ridden WN. Yes, I did Jumpseat on them in the late 80's. Sat in the cockpit a few times and was surprised to watch the lack of checklist discipline, no CRM and in one instance a severely unstabalized approach that the captain bragged about doing after we landed. I am sure that has all changed over the years. I just haven't wanted or needed to fly WN.

Look, we all have our likes and dislikes, a bias etc. You dislike WN. That is very clear, especially since you spend a lot of time in WN threads saying so. But you clearly don't know much about today's WN. I'm not saying you would like WN if you flew them today, but it's pretty clear through your posts that you still perceive WN as the airline you knew and grew to hate 15-20+ years ago. In other words, when it comes to the current WN product, you don't know what you're talking about.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-25 21:47:08 and read 2094 times.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 71):
In other words, when it comes to the current WN product, you don't know what you're talking about.

It's not just the product. I do know why and what has driven my dislike in forming MY opinion. I would list them all but this thread is about the commercials and not how much I dislike WN. The commercials are bad and don't reflect the true WN experience. I've seen the TV shows, WN is dysfunctional like any airline. They have just done an excellent job of publicity campaigns to divert attention. The "grannies and grandes" guy is a good example.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-03-25 22:57:46 and read 2052 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 72):
don't reflect the true WN experience

By your own admission, you don't know what the WN experience is, so you should probably leave this conversation now. Besides, you're basing your opinion on a TV show?!      

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: WNCrew
Posted 2013-03-26 04:13:38 and read 1978 times.

Mcdu already has very little credibility here based on his posting patterns regarding WN. I would just start ignoring his posts.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-26 05:34:27 and read 1929 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 70):
However, you can't get to many places business is conducted on WN.

I'll readily admit that I can't take WN to everywhere I need to go, but this year, I've been to Jackson, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Detroit and Tampa on business. Is no business conducted in those and the other 70 WN cities? No business in Chicago? No business in Los Angeles? That's absurd.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: sccutler
Posted 2013-03-26 06:38:52 and read 1904 times.

I like the new ads - but I liked the old ones, too. Ringing a different bell, I suppose.

Southwest's core is the business traveler - always has been - and when I am compelled to fly commercial, they're my first choice, because most such travel does not allow the luxury of long lead times, and short-lead fares are virtually always much better on Southwest (at least, out of the DFW area). Example: Last week, I had to go to New Orleans; WN, Business Select, was something like $450, round-trip; I checked AA, and they wanted $1200.00 round trip, cattle-class, no seats available to select (because I am not Mega-Platinum Ultra AAdvantage).

Why wait in a cattle-call boarding line to sit in a "seat to be named later," when I can use Southwest's much more civilized and orderly boarding process, walk on with my one computer bag (because my big case was checked for free), bypass the security line and enjoy my free drink?

Reality: majority of business travelers never get enough frequent flyer status to get the free upgrades and use the airport clubs; most business travelers prefer to get where they are going and back without a lot of time spent cooling their jets at the airport (no matter how nice the place of waiting might be). Frequency, reliability, reasonable (not cheap) fares, fast and effective handling of unusual circumstances, no forfeiture of funds if plans change (as they so often do) - these are the things which have built Southwest's business, have made it an unmatched tool for the vast majority of hard-core domestic business travelers, and will likely sustain it as they continue to grow.

I am also glad for the 2014 Wright Amendment limitations phase-out, and what that means for north Texas travelers. Come to think of it, Spirit's presence is helping, too.

But, it'll be a cold day in hell before they get international 121 ops at DAL.

And I still dislike airline travel.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: mcdu
Posted 2013-03-26 06:42:09 and read 1901 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 75):
In other words, when it comes to the current WN product, you don't know what you're talking about.

Sure business is conducted in those cities. However, a lot of business is conducted in transcon markets. A nonstop from SAN to NYC is generally more appealing than making a stop / stops on WN. That is just one example but extrapolate as needed in either direction. The legacy carriers can get people from coast to coast with much greater ease to large and secondary cities. WN tried transcons and failed. Passengers wanted amenities they didnt offer. Will be interesting if they decide to test the waters again in the near future.

Maybe the new commercials will draw all the business passengers to WN? I'm sure that is all they needed was commercial.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2013-03-26 06:49:52 and read 1899 times.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 77):
Sure business is conducted in those cities. However, a lot of business is conducted in transcon markets.

I agree, but an airline cannot be all things to all people. A lot of business is conducted in south Florida, where UA is very weak. A lot of business is conducted in Texas, where DL is very weak. A lot of business is conducted on the west coast, where AA is very weak.

What's different between WN and the legacies? All have network strengths and weaknesses. For instance, for intra-Texas and intra-California--both strong business markets--WN offers superior service to any other carrier.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 77):
The legacy carriers can get people from coast to coast with much greater ease to large and secondary cities.

Never mind the 100 million people who don't live on a coast. Look, we understand that you despise WN and that WN doesn't work for you. But the fact that WN doesn't work for you does not mean that there are not some for whom WN works well.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2013-03-26 09:29:14 and read 1811 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 75):
Is no business conducted in those and the other 70 WN cities?

. Isn't it up to 96 or 98 cities now?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 77):
a lot of business is conducted in transcon markets.

And with 5 or 6 airlines flying each one of those routes, they're each making pennies, if anything at all on them... But then again, UA, obviously, isn't concerned about trying to make a profit.

Topic: RE: WN Changing Ad Campaign For Better Or Worse?
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2013-03-26 09:31:07 and read 1811 times.

So much time and energy being spent debating with an individual that has admitted to not even being familiar or aware of the actual experience/product offered by WN today. I really don't know why we continue to have this discussion when someone doesn't even want to bother experiencing WN today. I'm not sure which airline he works for, but chances are he is more than welcome to fly Non-Rev on WN at any time. Maybe this is something that should be done?

I've ran into many non-revving pax (crew/retirees from other airlines) that absolutely love WN and the ease of the experience. Some will say it is easier flying on WN than it is their own airline. However, there will always be those that will never like the product because they want something else from their travel experience. That's fine. That is why we aren't a nation with an "Aeroflot" (before breaking up) that controls everything.


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