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Topic: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2013-03-28 17:52:27 and read 12127 times.

The Biman / Hajj thread got me thinking - there are a few widebody types that have never operated all economy - A340 (all variants), 777 (all variants), A380 (of course), 767 (afaik). Does anyone know better?

Types that are all Y are -
A300 and A310 Mahan Air, Iran Air
DC-10 Biman Bangladesh, THY, World Airways,
747 Tower? Corsair? various Hajj

I don't mean high density but with three rows of business or even some weird leisure "Club Transat" product at the front (or upstairs) - I'm looking for a widebody where row 1 looks the same as row 42 (which puts even the aforementioned Air Transat, Thomas Cook, Austral et al out of the picture).

Anyone?

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2013-03-28 17:57:26 and read 12111 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
767 (afaik).

Plenty of charter 767s have operated in all-Economy configurations. One example, Titan Airways of the UK:

http://www.titan-airways.com/fleet/boeing-767-300er.html

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: PDX88
Posted 2013-03-28 18:27:45 and read 11930 times.

Air Berlin's A330-300s are all economy.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2013-03-28 18:29:18 and read 11917 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):

Doesn't Omni operate two or three 777s in an all-economy layout?

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: qf002
Posted 2013-03-28 19:26:27 and read 11731 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
Plenty of charter 767s have operated in all-Economy configurations. One example, Titan Airways of the UK:

Australian Airlines (AO) also operated 4-5 single class 763ERs before they were shut down in favour of JQ in 2006.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2013-03-28 19:35:19 and read 11696 times.

The late ATA's L1011s were all Y

http://www.departedflights.com/TZL100596.html

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: EK604
Posted 2013-03-28 20:29:43 and read 11539 times.

PK 743's are in a 503 seat Economy setting.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: YYCFlyer
Posted 2013-03-28 23:11:52 and read 11174 times.

Thomas Cook Airlines / Condor have 767s in all Y I think about 300 seats.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-03-28 23:46:43 and read 11071 times.

AM and MX operated their DC-10-15s in all Y seating.
MX had 315 seats on them.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: migair54
Posted 2013-03-28 23:56:51 and read 11029 times.

Orbest A333 are all economy, and I think Air Pullmantur B747´s are all economy as well, both of them have operated for Garuda hajj season in the previous years... many charter airlines have all economy configuration, so they can lease some of them now that summer season has not yet started in Europe....

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Skyeurope
Posted 2013-03-29 00:17:57 and read 10948 times.

Quoting YYCFlyer (Reply 7):
Thomas Cook Airlines / Condor have 767s in all Y I think about 300 seats.

No, Condor has got 3 rows of "Comfort Class" in a 2-2-2 configuration.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: HELyes
Posted 2013-03-29 00:22:03 and read 10915 times.

Monarch A300 is in all Y, 361 seats, pitch 28-29"...

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: flyingalex
Posted 2013-03-29 06:08:50 and read 10073 times.

Air Berlin had three A333s in all-Economy configuration, with 387 seats.These only flew high-demand shorthaul or mid-haul routes, to PMI or the Canaries or AYT.

They got rid of them earlier this year though.

Their A332s used on longhaul always had a Business cabin, and still do.

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 10):
No, Condor has got 3 rows of "Comfort Class" in a 2-2-2 configuration.

And also a "Premium Economy" cabin with the same seats as Y, but 5 inches extra pitch.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Aesma
Posted 2013-03-29 06:39:39 and read 9692 times.

Despite cramming 580 seats in their 744s, Corsair International does have 24 J seats in the hump. Having experienced the Y in their previous similarly filled 743s, it's very tight !

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Flyer732
Posted 2013-03-29 06:51:40 and read 9545 times.

World's DC-10s and MD-11s are all economy. North American 767s are as well.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-03-29 07:13:43 and read 9289 times.

L-1011s have operated in all Y configuration with Caledonian, Worldways, American Trans Air, Court Line, LTU... In a standard Tristar, you could cram as many as 400 passengers.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: flyinghippo
Posted 2013-03-29 07:22:48 and read 9149 times.

JL and NH operate all economy 773s on domestic routes, right?

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: TreeHillRavens
Posted 2013-03-29 07:32:36 and read 9032 times.

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 16):
JL and NH operate all economy 773s on domestic routes, right?

No. There is a Business Class section on NH's 777 and Class J/First Class on some of JL 777.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2013-03-29 08:00:34 and read 8698 times.

One of El Al's B747-400, 4X-ELH, has all ecomony main deck and business class only on the upper deck (C26 Y429 - 455 total)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Noam

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Braniff747SP
Posted 2013-03-29 10:18:55 and read 7279 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
A380 (of course)

UU has stated that their 380 order will be in an all Y-config, but that order is in the "I'll believe it when I see it" pile.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: ecflyer
Posted 2013-03-29 10:36:21 and read 7056 times.

I flew an all-Y L1011 BOS-CUN (with fuel stop in Florida...MIA?) in 1994. Can't remember the operator, but it was a package trip (spring break!) and charter of some sort. I remember the interior being barn-like with smaller overheads and lots of "space" due to the full economy layout.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: FlyingDove
Posted 2013-03-29 12:23:38 and read 5963 times.

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 18):
One of El Al's B747-400, 4X-ELH, has all ecomony main deck and business class only on the upper deck (C26 Y429 - 455 total)

About ten years ago, I flew on an all-economy (including upper deck) LY 744. I can't remember if it was 4X-ELA, B or C, but it definitely had economy upstairs as well.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: delta747tlv
Posted 2013-03-29 13:16:24 and read 5379 times.

NWA used an all Y config on their 747-200 for a while (might have been the 100) operating flights from NRT to beach markets (ROR, GUM, HNL,SPN). I have been told that serving the 5 option breakfast a la carte to 500+ paxmwas quite a joy.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: ZKEOJ
Posted 2013-03-29 13:25:00 and read 5291 times.

In the old days, Condor and LTU had the 767s in all-Y configuration. Comfort Class, premium-Y etc came later.

Cheers
micha

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2013-03-29 13:48:15 and read 5050 times.

I remember flying on Air France 747 (-100 or -200, don't know which) from Orly to Guadeloupe in the late 70s. It was all-economy, and they did not even have food service aboard - you had to take a picnic baggie with you - and of course all the kids ate everything in the first hour...

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2013-03-29 13:58:59 and read 5199 times.

CP Air often changed configurations of their 747-200s from F/Y to all-Y. They often operated all-Y to Hawaii in the winter and on their extensive charter services (mainly Canada-UK) in the summer. I believe AC also operated all-Y 747-100s on certain leisure routes, sometimes on a seasonal basis.

Wardair's aircraft, including their 747s and DC-10s, were all-Y originally. They added J class around the time they converted from charter to scheduled services.

Many other charter/leisure carriers operated all-Y widebodies and some still do.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-29 14:06:32 and read 5120 times.

The Air Cebu A330-300 will feature 436 seats, delivery slated for July.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: bx737
Posted 2013-03-29 14:12:54 and read 5169 times.

I believe Air Inter in France were going to operate their A330s in an all economy layout, I think with about 400 seats. They were to replace the A300s. I don't know whether they did or not, they got rid of them quite quickly after taking delivery of them.

I flew on an Airtours 767 with 327 seats from MAN-CUN, needed to be crow-barred out of the seat

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2013-03-29 14:15:54 and read 5152 times.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 19):
UU has stated that their 380 order will be in an all Y-config, but that order is in the "I'll believe it when I see it" pile.

Last year, an UU spokesman said they will drop the all Y-config if they continue with the A380. They figured out that they cannot fill those 840 seats.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: SpaceshipDC10
Posted 2013-03-29 14:56:13 and read 4717 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Wardair's aircraft, including their 747s and DC-10s, were all-Y originally.

Wardair DC-10s were delivered in a confortable Y301-seats configuration, quite a change from the 345 or even 380 with others charter companies' like World, Laker, and other europeans.

Quoting bx737 (Reply 27):
I believe Air Inter in France were going to operate their A330s in an all economy layout, I think with about 400 seats.

They operated four A330. They were configured for 412 seats.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/29/bu...ce-suspends-use-of-airbus-jet.html

[Edited 2013-03-29 14:59:03]

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: dazbo5
Posted 2013-03-29 16:03:04 and read 4093 times.

Quoting YYCFlyer (Reply 7):

TCX and TOM both operate 763's in 328Y.

Darren

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Jambost
Posted 2013-03-29 17:28:22 and read 3294 times.

I believe Onur air of turkey operates A300 & 310 all y class, unless they had y+ up front?

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: ca
Posted 2013-03-29 17:28:28 and read 3304 times.

LTU and Martinair MD11.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2013-03-29 17:41:35 and read 3160 times.

Quoting FlyingDove (Reply 21):
About ten years ago, I flew on an all-economy (including upper deck) LY 744. I can't remember if it was 4X-ELA, B or C, but it definitely had economy upstairs as well.

LY's first 3 B744s sent with YCL upper deck, but with FCL & JCL on the main deck. Upper deck changed to JCL in 1998.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2013-03-29 18:40:39 and read 2940 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
The Biman / Hajj thread got me thinking - there are a few widebody types that have never operated all economy - A340 (all variants), 777 (all variants), A380 (of course), 767 (afaik). Does anyone know better?

I've ridden on an all Y North American 763. Most have a few rows of business but this one was Y from nose to tail.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: AR385
Posted 2013-03-29 19:17:20 and read 2873 times.

Quoting bx737 (Reply 27):
I believe Air Inter in France were going to operate their A330s in an all economy layout, I think with about 400 seats. They were to replace the A300s.

They did. I flew on one, June 1994, ORY-Marseilles. Outstanding performance upon takeoff.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: LJ
Posted 2013-03-29 23:49:55 and read 2647 times.

Quoting ca (Reply 32):
LTU and Martinair MD11.

AFAIK MP had 24 Star Class seats in its MD11

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: AndyEastMids
Posted 2013-03-30 03:26:48 and read 2456 times.

Aer Lingus ran their ex Lufthansa 747-130 EI-BED in a Y468 config for some time... I flew DUB-JFK on it once - quite pleasant

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: airbuseric
Posted 2013-03-30 03:58:41 and read 2379 times.

Transavia A310-200, Martinair's A310s where in all Y as well MP's B747-200's flew in all Y config.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: nicode
Posted 2013-03-30 05:15:04 and read 2267 times.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 19):
UU has stated that their 380 order will be in an all Y-config, but that order is in the "I'll believe it when I see it" pile.

I think UU cancelled this order.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2013-03-30 05:25:27 and read 2245 times.

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 23):
In the old days, Condor and LTU had the 767s in all-Y configuration. Comfort Class, premium-Y etc came later.

and in the very old days Condor must have been the very first leisure carrier to operate B747-100. If my memory serves me right, "Max" and "Moritz" had 470 Y seats each.

LTU had their L1011s all Y as well. They flew DUS-PMI, sometimes several rotarions each in the summer. Other routes as well of course.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: okAY
Posted 2013-03-30 05:28:28 and read 2226 times.

Quoting ca (Reply 32):

Finnair operated one of their MD11s in all Economy layout for a while in the 1990s.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: mjoelnir
Posted 2013-03-30 05:28:54 and read 2225 times.

CC with B747-100,-200,-300,-400 during the time, mainly wet leased to a near eastern carrier during hadj.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Polot
Posted 2013-03-30 05:31:59 and read 2221 times.

Quoting nicode (Reply 39):
I think UU cancelled this order.

While they were rumored to be cancelling the order last year the order is still in Airbus's orderbook. That said, like others mentioned, unless things turn around for UU I don't really see them taking the A380 (they couldn't even afford to take delivery of their last 77L).

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: helyes
Posted 2013-03-30 05:34:08 and read 2219 times.

In the 1990's one of Finnair's MD-11s had an all-economy configuration with 407 seats for a while, it was used for charter flights to the Gran Canaries and to the Mediterranean.

Topic: RE: All-Economy Widebodies
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2013-03-30 16:38:35 and read 1783 times.

IIRC, I flew an all-Y Lloyd Aereo Boliviano A310 on a regularly scheduled flight (VVI-GRU). It was tight too, with 9-abreast seating (3-3-3), and not a lot of legroom.


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