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Topic: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: NWAtoHNL
Posted 2013-03-24 10:53:50 and read 7471 times.

http://www.khon2.com/news/local/stor...3XBHUEqNJrkVHjRAEg.cspx?p=Comments

Looks like mokulele will increase service. Wonder if HA and the smaller ATR-42 will consider flying to Kapalua to fill the void.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2013-03-24 11:51:45 and read 7348 times.

Quoting NWAtoHNL (Thread starter):
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/stor...3XBHUEqNJrkVHjRAEg.cspx?p=Comments

Looks like mokulele will increase service. Wonder if HA and the smaller ATR-42 will consider flying to Kapalua to fill the void.







Wow...amazing. Let's pick an airplane that forces us to go hed-to-head with the states biggest airline while forcing us to withdraw from our one profitable nich markets. Unbelieveable.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: usxguy
Posted 2013-03-24 14:09:53 and read 7120 times.

Looks like Mokulele will be up to 7 flights a day in April...

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-03-24 22:12:07 and read 5958 times.

Quoting NWAtoHNL (Thread starter):
Wonder if HA and the smaller ATR-42 will consider flying to Kapalua to fill the void.

I know the initial idea of O'hana was to serve LNY & MKK, I wonder if HA will consider a return to JHM as well, I hope so!

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: daviation
Posted 2013-03-25 08:02:52 and read 4725 times.

I'm sorry to hear this news. I took Island Air's DH-8 service to/from HNL to JHM last summer. Very very convenient for those of us staying in the Kapalua area. Maui's main airport is about a one hour drive from the resorts on the West Maui coast. JHM was about five minutes!

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-03-25 09:26:38 and read 4480 times.

Not sure the ATR can operate at the West Maui airport. That's what makes the Dash-8 so unique.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: T prop
Posted 2013-03-25 15:44:18 and read 4101 times.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 5):
Not sure the ATR can operate at the West Maui airport. That's what makes the Dash-8 so unique.

The ATR 42 can't match the Dash 8's performance when it comes to West Maui. It can get in and out of there but since it would be weight restricted to less than 1/2 full, why take one in there?

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-03-25 20:16:15 and read 3956 times.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 5):
Not sure the ATR can operate at the West Maui airport. That's what makes the Dash-8 so unique.
Quoting T prop (Reply 6):
The ATR 42 can't match the Dash 8's performance when it comes to West Maui. It can get in and out of there but since it would be weight restricted to less than 1/2 full, why take one in there?

I have flown HA Dash-7's out of JHM before, why can't an ATR-42 do what a Dash 7 could do 30 years ago?

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-03-25 20:31:24 and read 3942 times.

Air Caledonie operates in similar climatic conditions between Magenta, Ile des Pins, Lifou and Mare using ATR-42 aircraft on runways from 3000 to 4000 feet.

If they can do that, then Ohana can use JHM. Isn't that why Island Air is exiting?

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-03-25 20:38:49 and read 3933 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):

If they can do that, then Ohana can use JHM. Isn't that why Island Air is exiting

HA has stated so far, that O'hana was to connect the Islands of Molokai and Lanai, from what I have heard, HA has made no mention of any intentions to serve JHM. I'm hoping WP pulling out, has HA thinking about it.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: T prop
Posted 2013-03-25 21:53:38 and read 3890 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):

I have flown HA Dash-7's out of JHM before, why can't an ATR-42 do what a Dash 7 could do 30 years ago?

The Dash 7 is a STOL aircraft, it can takeoff fully loaded in 2300 feet. If someone found a way to strap JATO bottles to an ATR then maybe it could match the take off performance of a Dash 7. Note that this airport was purpose built by Hawaiian Air for the Dash 7. The airport identifier, JHM, stands for John H. Magoon, the then president of Hawaiian Air.

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):
Air Caledonie operates in similar climatic conditions between Magenta, Ile des Pins, Lifou and Mare using ATR-42 aircraft on runways from 3000 to 4000 feet.

If they can do that, then Ohana can use JHM. Isn't that why Island Air is exiting?


I don't know about Air Caledone, but JHM is not 3000 to 4000 feet, it's 3000 feet cut into the side of a mountain. There are noise abatement procedures, you must overfly the resorts above a certain altitude. Mahalo Air used to fly the ATR 42-320 to JHM but they were weight restricted to about 17- 18 passengers. The ATR 42-500 will take a better load in and out of there, but it too will be weight limited.

An ATR 42 can fly in and out of JHM, any airline that wants too has to decide if it's economically feasible to do so.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-03-25 23:31:27 and read 3851 times.

Quoting T prop (Reply 10):
I don't know about Air Caledone, but JHM is not 3000 to 4000 feet, it's 3000 feet cut into the side of a mountain. There are noise abatement procedures, you must overfly the resorts above a certain altitude. Mahalo Air used to fly the ATR 42-320 to JHM but they were weight restricted to about 17- 18 passengers. The ATR 42-500 will take a better load in and out of there, but it too will be weight limited.

JHM needs about another 1000ft of runway for a fully loaded ATR42. The Island Locals are not fond of runway extensions as They have held off extending the OGG main runway after approval over 10yrs ago.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: ha763
Posted 2013-03-26 02:07:16 and read 3786 times.

JHM cannot extend its runway. The agreement with Maui County requires that any major changes or improvements have to be approved by the Maui County Council. The Council will never agree to any runway extension.

Quoting NWAtoHNL (Thread starter):
Wonder if HA and the smaller ATR-42 will consider flying to Kapalua to fill the void.

WP is also getting ATR-42s, but they are still dropping JHM. WP must have decided it wasn't economical even with the ATR-42.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: RWA380
Posted 2013-03-26 02:15:47 and read 3782 times.

Quoting T prop (Reply 10):
The Dash 7 is a STOL aircraft, it can takeoff fully loaded in 2300 feet. If someone found a way to strap JATO bottles to an ATR then maybe it could match the take off performance of a Dash 7. Note that this airport was purpose built by Hawaiian Air for the Dash 7. The airport identifier, JHM, stands for John H. Magoon, the then president of Hawaiian Air.

Oh OK, I knew the Dash 7 was STOL, but thought it was a bigger & heavier aircraft, I never realized 2300 feet was how little room it needed. I wish HA had kept the Dash 7's, and kept JHM, MKK & LNY around. I remember the DC-9's were serving MKK & LNY on a 2x daily schedule, running HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG for a while after the Dash 7's left.

I knew HA had built JHM, and was surprised when they dumped all props SD-330's or Dash 7's. I also did not know the JHM airport code was for the then HA president. I liked the Dash 7.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: ha763
Posted 2013-03-26 18:32:52 and read 3585 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
Oh OK, I knew the Dash 7 was STOL, but thought it was a bigger & heavier aircraft, I never realized 2300 feet was how little room it needed.

You have to remember that compared to the ATR-42, the Dash-7 had a bigger wing (93 ft and 860 sq ft vs 80 ft 7in and 587 sq ft) and 4 turboprops. Those 4 turboprops blew a lot of air over the wings allowing for better lift at low speeds.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: aloha73g
Posted 2013-03-26 19:14:31 and read 3558 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
O'hana

The 'okina in the word 'ohana appears before the O. In the Hawaiian language, the 'okina ( ' ) or glottal stop is considered to be a consonant letter and in Hawaiian you can't have 2 consonants without a vowel between them. The 'okina always appears between 2 vowels (O'ahu, Hawai'i, Kaua'i, etc.) or at the begining of a word before a vowel as in 'okina and 'ohana.

-Aloha!

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2013-03-26 21:02:55 and read 3512 times.

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 15):
The 'okina in the word 'ohana appears before the O. In the Hawaiian language, the 'okina ( ' ) or glottal stop is considered to be a consonant letter and in Hawaiian you can't have 2 consonants without a vowel between them. The 'okina always appears between 2 vowels (O'ahu, Hawai'i, Kaua'i, etc.) or at the begining of a word before a vowel as in 'okina and 'ohana.

-Aloha!

Thanks for that, I grew up in Hawaii and never had that explained to me. I am pretty sure it is always used between two vowels but how do you know when to use it at the begginning of the word.

Is it really 'Aloha?

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-04-01 15:37:31 and read 3247 times.

There is a front page and page 5 article in the "Maui News" dated 3/31/13.

Key points:

1) Hawaiian has confirmed by email that Ohana is going to open Kapalua, Lanai and Molokai as its three Ohana destinations from Honolulu, using modified ATR-42 aircraft. It is awaiting FAA approval before formally announcing Kapalua.

2) Mokulele's CEO acknowledges Hawaiian's entry, but says that Mokulele thinks it can prevail with a half hourly shuttle operation in 9 seat Grand Caravans.

3) A lounge is in the final stages of construction at JHM: the airport won't disclose whether it is for JTB (Japan Travel Bureau) or Hawaiian elites.

4) JTB has ongoing arrangements for getting Japanese tourists to JHM. Somewhat ironically, they are building two whale shaped buses to get the tourists to their Kaanapali hotels.

Separately, there is speculation that Island Air owner Larry Ellison is pulling the airline out of Kapalua to protect his deluxe Lanai properties by cutting the Ritz-Carlton Kapalua's cord.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: cv880
Posted 2013-04-01 16:08:24 and read 3191 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 17):
1) Hawaiian has confirmed by email that Ohana is going to open Kapalua, Lanai and Molokai as its three Ohana destinations from Honolulu, using modified ATR-42 aircraft. It is awaiting FAA approval before formally announcing Kapalua.

Good news for West Maui. Will be interesting to see what the load limitations are.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: JayBird
Posted 2013-04-01 16:11:31 and read 3188 times.

There are a lot of locals who were nervous to fly IslandAir's DH8s but did it anyhow because of the convenience. There will be a lot who will just not get in a 9-passenger single engine plane. So unless 'Ohana does fly into JHM - there's going to be a big drop in traffic at that airport.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2013-04-01 17:07:09 and read 3137 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 17):
1) Hawaiian has confirmed by email that Ohana is going to open Kapalua, Lanai and Molokai as its three Ohana destinations from Honolulu, using modified ATR-42 aircraft. It is awaiting FAA approval before formally announcing Kapalua.

Yup.

Quoting koruman (Reply 17):
2) Mokulele's CEO acknowledges Hawaiian's entry, but says that Mokulele thinks it can prevail with a half hourly shuttle operation in 9 seat Grand Caravans.

Doubt it.

Quoting koruman (Reply 17):
4) JTB has ongoing arrangements for getting Japanese tourists to JHM. Somewhat ironically, they are building two whale shaped buses to get the tourists to their Kaanapali hotels.

Like the ones in Waikiki...really funny, colorful looking things. With a big whale tail on top, to boot!

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: daviation
Posted 2013-04-01 18:04:56 and read 3097 times.

Quoting JayBird (Reply 19):
There are a lot of locals who were nervous to fly IslandAir's DH8s but did it anyhow because of the convenience

That's pretty much how I felt about it. I wasn't fearful, but a little anxious. And the plane did bounce around quite a lot. At the end of the day it was worth it for the convenience.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: n7371f
Posted 2013-04-01 20:17:23 and read 3024 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 17):
3) A lounge is in the final stages of construction at JHM: the airport won't disclose whether it is for JTB (Japan Travel Bureau) or Hawaiian elites.

The upstairs area that's been chained off for years? Interesting.

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: usxguy
Posted 2013-04-02 07:10:01 and read 2901 times.

I thought I read the lounge was at the OGG airport, not JHM... JTB already has a room at the JHM airport....

Topic: RE: Island Air Pulling Out Of JHM
Username: koruman
Posted 2013-04-03 02:29:53 and read 2756 times.

Usxguy,
I re-read the article and you are correct: the JTB lounge will be at OGG.


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